Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
2075
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Posted - 2013.11.05 10:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:Seriously do we even need a CPM? surely with additions to CCP like logibro etc these are real dust players who get the game, why do we need to select a small unrepresentative group of players to be a focus group?
Do i need to spout marketing 101? - a focus group is something that changes each time you change the product......
CCP just keep the eve players happy with the CSM so they can feel important for once in their lives that they get to direct SPACE GAMES, dust i think isn't the same thing. Don't elevate a small group of people into 'hubris' - spread your focus group around, setup virtual groups and test a much wider sample of players
Just my 10 cents.
You know, I actually agree with you, to a point. I've said it from the start. There's simply no way a 6-12 person group can provide effective feedback on all topics in an unbiased form. From the beginning, I've advocated that CCP instead make the "CPM" made up of several subgroups, much like ISD teams. These teams could be separated into groups like HAV, dropships, weapons, suits, etc. (You get the idea) and then the teams in question within CCP could poll the related player team without having the other teams stick their noses in and waste everyone's time with uninformed (and usually wrong) opinions.
The "Main CPM" itself could be created by 'electing' leader/representatives from each team.
However....
I do think you're missing the point. The vocal majority of /any/ community on the internet is going to be idiots. This is just a sad truth. No quality feedback, if any can ever really be gathered from these people. The real source of constructive, actionable feedback is the inteligent minority. I will make no claims that myself or my council dudebros are more intelligent than any others in that minority, simply that we're a part of that minority (Except IWS, obv  )
People saying "Man, we'll elect people who will do such a better job" are simply looking to vilify without cause. The truth is, no one really knows what we're pushing for, in almost every case where they claim we push only our own agendas. We've love it to death if CCP allowed us to operate with complete transparency, but that is simply not going to happen, because CCP's information overlords need to justify their own jobs and need to micromanage every tidbit of information we release.
I have no doubt in my mind that people chosen by the vocal majority without some method of filter on CCP's part would be far worse than what people falsely believe about CPM0. To this end, I have strongly advocated that during the selection process, the only people who should be eligible for election are people that CCP can look into their past history in the dust community and see a strong contribution. (Ironically enough, people like you, Pyrex, who have made countless tutorial videos) Podcasters, forum warriors, twitter bros, etc.... CCP should be able to look at a candidate and say "Yeah, this person is super dedicated, and they will make a good CPM." Being popular is no justification for being on the CPM. The capacity to remain profressional and forward even perspectives that are in direct opposition to your own are vital. This is the level of trust and maturity required to have a strong council. A level of maturity NOT shown by the vast majority of those on the internet.
So, before you question the people on the council... I'd like to ask you to question what you actually know about what we've been doing these past six months. Then ask yourself if that's really a reason to have misgivings about the council. If you really sit there and analyze what we have done and what CCP has actually done in response... You would realize that if anything, it is CCP that has dropped the ball. The CPM warned them many times by raising red flags prior to something hitting the live builds (Flaylocks, the AFK "fix", the recent point cap hotfix, numerous exploits, etc.) all of which were pretty much ignored.
That said, I will not say that we've been entirely without bias. After all, we're human. Sometimes when a topic of particular interest to one of us comes up, we can get a little over passionate. However, in all cases this has happened... the rest of the council has yanked the leash in a separate channel telling the person to STFU and ease up. You have only my word for this, of course. But rest assured that no single agenda can be pushed without the rest of the council say "Hey, hold on a minute. Look at why this is being said."
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Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
2131
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Posted - 2013.11.19 07:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:In this thread a CPM decided to wade in, telling the plebs that their estimates were 'bad' as they hadn't taken into account dispersion (because we're just plebs and haven't seen the weapons in action). Then another CPM came in and told us that the numbers we were using were out of date anyway. Textbook example of the antagonistic and hierarchical relationship between the CPM and the general playerbase. I don't even blame the current CPMs; it's just the nature of a role that places a select few above us mere immortals.
I was the second CPM in that thread ;) You'll notice that I also told the first CPM in the thread (IWS) to STFU. The dude means well, but he's the worst person imaginable to have trying to explain /anything/ in a way that isn't going to tick people off.
If anything was "antagonistic" about my post, it was towards IWS being a complete spazz, and not towards my fellow players. 
You'll also noticed that I posted twice in that thread. Once noting my dismay at IWS' diplomatic failings, and the second time noting my complete disappointment in CCP for failing to make public the fact they even /changed/ the stats of the new weapons and vehicles (apparently) in response to the feedback on the public forums. (Which the CPM still hasn't even seen either, yet) |