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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
487
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Posted - 2013.11.12 15:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:I'm going to start off with a quick statement: The CPM has been nothing short of absolutely stellar. The times we have been able to use them as the resource that they were supposed to be has resulted in amazing feedback and progress. To everyone that believes that they have been doing very little, I would beg to differ and I would believe it completely disingenuous to call them useless. They have made themselves available at nearly any time we ask, ready to give instant feedback on any and everything. Yes it's behind closed doors at the moment, but that's the NDA - it's a double edged sword.
While the NDA prevents the CPM from telling the wider community a large number of things, what it does do is allow us to run raw ideas and sanity check crazy proposals without fear of the larger community taking it the wrong way. A number of truly ridiculous ideas have made it to the cutting room floor with the help of the CPM, and some excellent ideas have been proposed by them, been expanded by the development teams and actually borne fruit. There is absolutely no way that many of the details that we have shared with them so early would be disseminated among the wider public, as the ideas are too raw and unrefined to be ready for mass feedback. Doing so would result is a vast sea of half-built responses that would inundate the development teams, drowning out the well planned responses in a swarm of half-baked ideas due to a lack of a solid base for people to give feedback on.
The CPM is meant to be an advocacy council taking issues they see from the player base and raising them with us. They're also an amazing sanity check for our plans. While many of you can't see the impact they're making, trust me when I say that while we haven't always been giving them the support they deserve, they have been putting in mountains of work. But they do not dictate development. They act merely in an advisory capacity, and the final call will always remain in CCPGÇÖs hands. Infact, I have seen instances where CPM members have stated that their preferred play styles need to be nerfed for the good of the game.
The reaction that many of you are having right now is exactly the same reaction EVE players had when the CSM was first formed. Over many years they have had the ability to prove themselves as CCP has grown to include them as part of the development process. The CPM wonGÇÖt integrate overnight, but we do need to put more work into it. We can make it work, and we are committed to making it work.
I am not really sure you understand the complexity of the problem the CPM has right now. Players want a charter and elections, while CCP wants feedback before the fact to get the ball rolling on development. As has been stated previously by at least one user post, the CPM is not representative of the community as a whole. They have a direct line of communication which can be useful only if ideas are brought through them, which could have both a positive and negative effect if that filter for ideas (cutting room floor) decides they don't like your idea for whatever reason.
All that is beside the point, their one job was to get the lines of communication in order so that a fair democratic style process could begin. You are lauding their efforts at making your job easier yet you fail to see that there are quite a few people that have come out of CB or OB that would be more than willing to be part of the process that you have shortened to your handpicked few "special ones" that in all reality do not have a wide enough pool of experience for you to swim in.
Jenza made a bad situation worse when she used the exploit, filled her pockets with PC ISK and even showed up in Hellstorm PC battles she was not supposed to be a part of (on our side at least). If a "representative" for our community is allowed to benefit from insider information (everyone from CB understood the mechanic who had been a part of Corp Battles) then you are really just giving CPM members carte blanche. I am not accusing anyone of anything they have yet to admit that they were a part of. This happened.
It has been made clear by the CPM that CCP is more interested in the development process than communication with the community. It has also be made clear by CCP that you are more interested in damage control than resolving the issues of communication and been less than forthcoming about what you want to work on so that we can communicate to you what needs to happen to make things work better.
I signed on as a Closed Beta player and devoted countless hours to testing for you and my opinion seems to matter less than one of your chosen few, have continued to give feedback that is of mixed value I am sure, but feel that my time has been wasted. When for all the communication attempts made there have been countless times where it has been flat out ignored. CCP has clearly stated communicate with us through twitter or IRC but the first response I have had to any of my requests for a feature or even a comment has been not from CCP but from Hans, after not 1 week but 2 months time and several twitter messages communicating a desire for some acknowledgement that the idea has been seen.
The only good communication from CCP that I seem to find are the surveys from QuestionPro that show up in my email from time to time. This is an appropriate way to communicate with the community. They provide you with the feedback you are looking for and you seem to listen when the crowd sourcing information enters the fray. Keep the surveys coming, better yet, build them into the PS3 Client. Get everyone involved and either allow us to elect a CPM that is representative or do away with them. You have their proposed charter. Finalize what needs work on and get it done, please, so we can get our game on, continue the work towards a better New Eden and one of the most successful franchises on the planet.
One Universe...with friendly fire for all!
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
491
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Posted - 2013.11.13 08:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:[quote=CCP Logibro]
Jenza made a bad situation worse when she used the exploit, filled her pockets with PC ISK and even showed up in Hellstorm PC battles she was not supposed to be a part of (on our side at least). If a "representative" for our community is allowed to benefit from insider information I would love to know what "insider information" you are talking about. I knew exactly the same as everyone else, this "exploit" or so you call it has been around since corp battles where available. I or even anyone else didnt use it because there was no real reason or benefit until PC. I still stand by my statement that this was not an exploit but emergent gameplay. Jenza I was in the PC battle you awoxed Hellstorm in and watched Kujo teamkill you, as stated in my post it was something everyone knew about and if the problem would have been resolved by just talking to CCP and telling them that this needs to be done first, which we all did during CB, and had CCP listened rather than constantly leaving it till the majority of the game starts complaining about it on the forums we would have had roles 6 months sooner.
I'm not saying we didn't know about it (we being the CB and OB vets) but when it results in creating a situation where one group of individuals who are supposed to be in an advisory position to the devs, takes over a good portion of "Player Owned Space" through this kind of tactic as well as having some actually really good players it make many of us wonder just how many of the known exploits (to you and other CPM members) are going to be used against the rest of the players.
You can't deny you did it all you can deny is that it was unknown. Which I agree, was a widely know exploit that CCP said Soon TM rather than ok we see the issue it will be out in a Hot Fix like so many other things have been fixed (AR ROF for one). This line of communication needs to be clear and if the CPM and CCP can't agree on who what and how then maybe you shouldn't be representing players, maybe you should be sitting in front of your console in a new toon just to see what its like getting Proto killed by your own corp or Nyan Cyan or so many of the other corps running nothing but proto gear in all pub matches because they can afford to with PC districts giving them a constant flow of isk.
One Universe...with friendly fire for all!
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
493
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Posted - 2013.11.13 16:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:I guess it doesnt help my case that CCP stated that it was not an exploit? And that I told CCP it was too easy and needed to be changed? because these two things are still facts.
And the truth is, people with the right roles can still awox, but its harder to do, which is good. We are not in world of warcraft or my little pony island adventure where things are all hugs and smiles. This is a slimy universe where we do things to get ahead within our personal boundaries of personal morality.
So I ask again; What insider information did I benifit from? Jenza, I am using you as an example because you flaunted the fact that it was possible. We knew it was and it was not inside information nor did I say it was insider information. A known exploit of a FAIL CCP mechanic that is being flat out refused to fix for too long is still not emergent gameplay no matter what you say. If you were in a fleet with me and shot me as someone cynoed in a Titan fleet to keep me from killing the cyno operator, that would be emergent gameplay. This was not anything like that. It was someone trying to AWOX without the proper mechanics in place. I think I have explained the issue. This was not a personal attack against you but rather the policy of communicating ineffectively with CCP's client base which has been supporting them in New Eden for the past 10 years.
One Universe...with friendly fire for all!
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
497
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Posted - 2013.11.14 02:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:
Why is it that I can directly twitter no less than 3 CPMs, 4 devs and send multiple forum posts about subjects that I feel are needing attention and it takes 2 months for anyone to get back to me with any information but in the span of 2-3 days you yourself have responded to my criticism no less than 3 times?
I'mma chalk that up to the fact that twitter is terrible and it's very hard to convey a lot of information in the character limits provided by the service. If you want real results, use Skype ^_^ I was actually installing skype as I was writing that post, and think it may resolve some of the communication issues I have been having. On the other hand just because I call someone doesn't mean they need to or will pick up at the other end or will say anything other than I'll get back to you on that.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
497
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Posted - 2013.11.14 14:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:
Why is it that I can directly twitter no less than 3 CPMs, 4 devs and send multiple forum posts about subjects that I feel are needing attention and it takes 2 months for anyone to get back to me with any information but in the span of 2-3 days you yourself have responded to my criticism no less than 3 times?
I'mma chalk that up to the fact that twitter is terrible and it's very hard to convey a lot of information in the character limits provided by the service. If you want real results, use Skype ^_^ I was actually installing skype as I was writing that post, and think it may resolve some of the communication issues I have been having. On the other hand just because I call someone doesn't mean they need to or will pick up at the other end or will say anything other than I'll get back to you on that. Best not to call. Calling is sort of a 'formal' action when it comes to Skype - usually reserved for Podcasts, interviews, CSM/CPM meetings and the like. A simple message works just fine ^_^ While you're on Skype, talk to Hans about getting in on the Dustscussions: Vehicle Rebalance and Faction Warfare, talk about your ideas with the rest of the Dusters who use Skype! We don't bite that often =P I would but I still have yet to receive contact permission yet.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
497
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Posted - 2013.11.14 15:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah so did I but meh probably working or some other productive thing like that, it did take 2 months for him to get back to me the 4th or 5th time I sent him something (still waiting on the first few messages I sent to be read and/or responded to) so I don't expect this process to be quick.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
528
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Posted - 2013.11.24 00:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
I remember two months before that patch a player decided to write a short story about how awoxing would work, even went to as far as to saying the hostile squad was committing suicide to burn clones.
Props on that guy for figuring the system out early.
I think you miss my point sir. Many of us indicated to CCP that the mechanics of PC as Corp battles at the time were called was a huge fail without roles or permissions of some sort. In Eve I can put out an advert for a fleet and disallow anyone from joining it if they don't meet the specifications for said fleet such as standing, corporation, alliance or just because I don't like them. This oversight on CCPs part has been corrected but there remains a lingering bad taste in my mouth about how long it took for them to fix it. It brings to mind the thought that there was no reason for the oversight and it was done just to troll the players. These are the kind of things that the CPM is here for and I guess you guys all chimed in and said that it needed to be fixed but CCP said not now we are busy right?
Jenza took it upon herself to urinate in everyone else's cornflakes involved in PC and I must admit that the tactic to garner CCP attention to the problem worked, they added roles. This is a case of communication both ways and one party not realizing how significant a given issue is and saying no. Will having the Charter in place and active prevent this from happening? I certainly hope so.
Jenza, Thank-you.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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