CRONOS war, Betamax also WTF abused in game mechanics for teamkilling claiming metagame, locking districts also metagame by CPM members but cheating for non CPM members, noticed how the CPM corps and alliance started it all is that because they new about it 1st and took advantage? yes it is

Ego trip by several members thinking they are a special snowflake, jenza is prob the worst for this, IWS is a close second

It is the point, i cant do it im not CPM so why list pointless stuff that even if you do it, it doesnt matter anyways because CCP doesnt listen

loldistrict with 1 frame a second in the match, you hold onto that win seems like you need it

If you dispise me or not idgaf i just think the CPM is a waste of time and then new CMs seem to do more than the CPM has ever done in a short space of time

loldistrict with 1 frame a second in the match, you hold onto that win seems like you need it

If you dispise me or not idgaf i just think the CPM is a waste of time and then new CMs seem to do more than the CPM has ever done in a short space of time

Pretty disappointed with some of the attitudes being shown here by the CPM, you are being massively over protective of what is essentially a CCP lack of interest in your office.

Given the way the CPM are acting, why on earth would a community member come to any of you when you show such emotion and frustration to the entire process yourselves.

The only thing to do is resign to show CCP that its not accepted by you either.

I'm going to start off with a quick statement: The CPM has been nothing short of absolutely stellar. The times we have been able to use them as the resource that they were supposed to be has resulted in amazing feedback and progress. To everyone that believes that they have been doing very little, I would beg to differ and I would believe it completely disingenuous to call them useless. They have made themselves available at nearly any time we ask, ready to give instant feedback on any and everything. Yes it's behind closed doors at the moment, but that's the NDA - it's a double edged sword.

While the NDA prevents the CPM from telling the wider community a large number of things, what it does do is allow us to run raw ideas and sanity check crazy proposals without fear of the larger community taking it the wrong way. A number of truly ridiculous ideas have made it to the cutting room floor with the help of the CPM, and some excellent ideas have been proposed by them, been expanded by the development teams and actually borne fruit. There is absolutely no way that many of the details that we have shared with them so early would be disseminated among the wider public, as the ideas are too raw and unrefined to be ready for mass feedback. Doing so would result is a vast sea of half-built responses that would inundate the development teams, drowning out the well planned responses in a swarm of half-baked ideas due to a lack of a solid base for people to give feedback on.

The CPM is meant to be an advocacy council taking issues they see from the player base and raising them with us. They're also an amazing sanity check for our plans. While many of you can't see the impact they're making, trust me when I say that while we haven't always been giving them the support they deserve, they have been putting in mountains of work. But they do not dictate development. They act merely in an advisory capacity, and the final call will always remain in CCPGÇÖs hands. Infact, I have seen instances where CPM members have stated that their preferred play styles need to be nerfed for the good of the game.

The reaction that many of you are having right now is exactly the same reaction EVE players had when the CSM was first formed. Over many years they have had the ability to prove themselves as CCP has grown to include them as part of the development process. The CPM wonGÇÖt integrate overnight, but we do need to put more work into it. We can make it work, and we are committed to making it work.

I'm going to start off with a quick statement: The CPM has been nothing short of absolutely stellar. The times we have been able to use them as the resource that they were supposed to be has resulted in amazing feedback and progress. To everyone that believes that they have been doing very little, I would beg to differ and I would believe it completely disingenuous to call them useless. They have made themselves available at nearly any time we ask, ready to give instant feedback on any and everything. Yes it's behind closed doors at the moment, but that's the NDA - it's a double edged sword.

While the NDA prevents the CPM from telling the wider community a large number of things, what it does do is allow us to run raw ideas and sanity check crazy proposals without fear of the larger community taking it the wrong way. A number of truly ridiculous ideas have made it to the cutting room floor with the help of the CPM, and some excellent ideas have been proposed by them, been expanded by the development teams and actually borne fruit. There is absolutely no way that many of the details that we have shared with them so early would be disseminated among the wider public, as the ideas are too raw and unrefined to be ready for mass feedback. Doing so would result is a vast sea of half-built responses that would inundate the development teams, drowning out the well planned responses in a swarm of half-baked ideas due to a lack of a solid base for people to give feedback on.

The CPM is meant to be an advocacy council taking issues they see from the player base and raising them with us. They're also an amazing sanity check for our plans. While many of you can't see the impact they're making, trust me when I say that while we haven't always been giving them the support they deserve, they have been putting in mountains of work. But they do not dictate development. They act merely in an advisory capacity, and the final call will always remain in CCPGÇÖs hands. Infact, I have seen instances where CPM members have stated that their preferred play styles need to be nerfed for the good of the game.

The reaction that many of you are having right now is exactly the same reaction EVE players had when the CSM was first formed. Over many years they have had the ability to prove themselves as CCP has grown to include them as part of the development process. The CPM wonGÇÖt integrate overnight, but we do need to put more work into it. We can make it work, and we are committed to making it work.

CRONOS war, Betamax also WTF abused in game mechanics for teamkilling claiming metagame, locking districts also metagame by CPM members but cheating for non CPM members, noticed how the CPM corps and alliance started it all is that because they new about it 1st and took advantage? yes it is

My biggest issue at hand is that we can discuss issues with CPM but we do not know if the community agrees with one side or the other. With no clear platforms for straight up voting on issues, we are at the mercy of the group to decide our best interest, right or wrong we don't know till its been done.

It's hard to do such a platform as it would be easily abused and would require the same safeguards in place as voting for the CPM. When we finally get to CSM1 maybe we can borrow those safeguards from CCP ;)

Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs...

Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members?

Let me elaborate:
1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief updated on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large.

2) The Corp leadership is responsible for making sure it's not a ptich fork and torches session...just conversation and information exchange from the community to their appointed / elected reps and maybe the guest star Dev.

If you are willing to take on this type fo engagement I would like to sign up OSG Planetary Operations to be your test case to see if this could be a positive practice for the CCP, CPM, and the community.

If not, then please let us know why you don't think that's feasible.

Thanks for your work...most of us wouldn't be on these forums if we didn't have a game that we weren't invested in and that is a credit to both CCP and CPM.

- jay

[b]Well i was in the CRONOS war and i saw it unfold and what CPM members were doing and ive told you but you dont like it and come out with crap, same with other stuff that i have seen on forums or in game actions and you were the 1st to bring up a district i just replied, im honest and once again you come out with more crap

CPM is biased, they abused several game mechanics for there own corp/alliance, they support there own playstyles or even will go as so far to criticize other playstyles such as that fantastic thread from IWS not wanting 'proto tanks' for pathetic reasons yet wont agree to removal of proto AV just one example, you basically disappeared for months, same with jenza after she looted the corp, nova is who, kain is kain and the other 1 i dont even know, that EVE player who didnt do anything for FW either
[b]

Noticed a lot of toxicity in this thread and I'd like to chime in as a neutral party between the two. Thing is, we do need a CPM because when you have thousands of players there are going to be a lot of different voices and not all of them are civil. When you can have six people in a room that, at least loosely correlates to those views than it gets easier to understand and easier to filter out all the garbage you usually see on the forums where people are screaming at one another alphanumerically because of the fact that they disagreed, not that they had something useful to bring up. Which is, unfortunately, exactly what seems to be happening here.

The CPM's role in all this isn't well voiced or communicated and you have to really dig down deep to get the true meaning behind it all because on the surface it does look like something fitting of controversy but it's important to realize that these guys were offered the position(s) because they had gone out of their way to help the community beforehand. A community based website with an IRC embed, a wiki, previous experience with EVE Online and the CSM... There's a bunch of reasons that these guys were selected and it wasn't because they were part of some big time player organization, though that does help because than you can understand the problems of these organized player groups which is what this game thrives on. It's very important to note that when you do something for the community, hearing the community's voice and relaying it usually comes hand-in-hand with that.

It's also important to remember that the players aren't the only ones who are stressed out here. CCP has been working very hard to get this game right and even though there's been a few teeter-totter moments, they've done a good job since Uprising first released. The CPM on the other hand probably has the most stressful job out of everyone solely because they're the middle man and lately they've been getting the **** end of the stick from both sides. This was made evidence by Nova Knife's post here and the general atmosphere that the community brings forth to them, with no more important an example than this thread.

Were the CPM unprofessional in how they handled this situation? Absolutely, but you have to put yourself in their shoes. It's like being the poor waitress who brought an order to a customer and the cook was theone who made the honest mistake - eventually that waitress is going to snap off because, let's face it, no-one enjoys having to put a smile on while you're being yelled at. This isn't to say that CCP is playing the cook here, but there's no reason you should gang up on someone that doesn't deserve it and not expect them to lash back after a while.

Suffice to say what this became is a giant pile of bullshit on both sides. The community incited an argument and got a response, then turned around and chastised them for that response, using it as ammunition against them. Now everyone is forgetting the original issue that started it all, attacking the other side for the sake of it. I think everyone needs to take a step back, consider WHY they're fighting so hard and get to the bottom of what the real issue is. Because if it's solely over whether or not we need a CPM, that's a really stupid reason for the community and the CPM to get into a brawl.

Im available large amounts of the day, if not my dust 514 character my eve character can be made available much more frequently as its right next to my homework. Our inboxes, skypes, and twitters are publicly available and if want a response that is you want to take to public make sure to entitle it as such and we will work around it. So if you guys want to ask your corps and your alliances questions for the cpm and then mail it in to us we be more than happy to work with that and at that method should be netting most of the CPM responses onto it.

We have had several town hall like meetings before the CPM AMA and the CPM QnA which we are having a slight difficulty in getting repeats of due to the large time zone differences. I mean optimally to get all the CPM would to pick the same time slot CCP uses for most of the meetings and frankly there is hardly anyone on at those times. Inversely the most you can easily get is a third of the CPM up at a time during the more popular times.

But dude. Don't you know we're the ones who ruined CPM cause we want stuff for us and our friends ? Are you that blind ?

More seriously. It's a nice metaphore. You should have add the cook had to change a big part of its kitchen hardware after receiving a bad review. So the waitress didnt have much to bring to the tables or back to the cook.

Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs...

Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members?

Let me elaborate:
1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief update on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large.

I ran a live Q&A with Hans and Kane a while back. I'd be up for doing another if people are interested.

What about all those casual gamers who don't have time to read the forums much and miss things like this, what about all the multitudes of people that the CPM members simply would not have the real life time to do face to face sessions like this, what about the new players who have no idea who these CPM members are, what about those who do not have PC's (and there's many many of them), what about the 'majority' of active gamers.

I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread.

Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work?

Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game.

Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end.

CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story......

I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread.

Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work?

Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game.

Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end.

CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story......

Thanks for the prompt response. I probably should have clarified...I know it's not practical to get the whole CPM togther. I was thinking along the lines of one or two that could essentially represent the CPM as a whole. Tell you what, I'll try to compile some key questions and get them sent over to you and would appreciate your response, if possible we work a window out where you can pop in with us and run some matches and chat with us...you game?

I appreciate the position you guys are in and the work you do. It's honestly difficult for me to "see" your work or the significance of interaction you may have with CCP but i've been actively trying to educate myself for the last month or so on it.

I think you're mistaken. The community is not calling for and end, they're calling for the CPM to actually be able to do more. They do the best they can but there are so many restrictions on what they can say or do its very frustrating.

Most of the CPM are active on the forums and in the community, helping to explain and elaborate things we have questions on that we find important that CCP doesn't or just don't have the time for.

I take full advantage of them, asking them to squad with my corp, asking them to join the events that I promote. I make sure that anyone I come in contact with that has in depth questions about this game, what's coming, needs elaboration on things and even just wants a way to reach out to the CPM has every opportunity to because I'm so sure of their place within this game and community.

The CPM is invaluable, I appreciate what they've done so far and I stand behind them needing more from CCP. As a community we also should voice this so maybe, one day, they can be as effective as intended.

The majority of the community is calling for an end to this, go read the posts and see the significant disrespect out there for this group and this premise. Also go read CCP Dolans post at the front of this thread, he himself states it is not working. If CCP think its been a failure, why are you trying to defend a position that is untenable?

I was very aware when i decided to take this stance that i would come up against those who would not relinquish their soapbox of power easily (and their followers) but decided to do it as i get a huge volume of people mailing me asking what my thoughts are on the CPM concept... so here we are.

By their own admition there are groups forming right now with an agenda in mind to 'Fix scout suits' or to 'get tanks nerfed' etc etc i know because they some how feel they can buy my support so perhaps i do an election video for them and back them.

A flawed, corrupt and frankly pointless concept made by CCP so they can do a couple of good press items on it and wave a carrot on a stick over parts of the community.

Have some free will about you and show CCP they messed up and resign. Anything else is just eroding what little respect is left for you all.

Open question for the CPM / CCP Devs...

Would you be willing to come to Corp / Alliance Private Chat Channels to have town hall meetings with our members?

Let me elaborate:
1) Have one day a week or every other week that a Corp or Alliance can sign up wtih and you join our closed channel or we come to one you set up and we have a brief update on CPM / CCP actions and ellicit feedback and questions from the community writ large.

2) The Corp leadership is responsible for making sure it's not a ptich fork and torches session...just conversation and information exchange from the community to their appointed / elected reps and maybe the guest star Dev.

If you are willing to take on this type fo engagement I would like to sign up OSG Planetary Operations to be your test case to see if this could be a positive practice for the CCP, CPM, and the community.

If not, then please let us know why you don't think that's feasible.

Thanks for your work...most of us wouldn't be on these forums if we didn't have a game that we weren't invested in and that is a credit to both CCP and CPM.

- jay