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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3507
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Posted - 2013.10.29 04:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
As great as the CPM is (they really have come a long way since Uprising was first released and all) it's important that CCP doesn't lose focus on the community and, more importantly, engaging that community. The voice of six people is not nearly as important as expressing goals and roadmap(s) with the community as a whole and receiving feedback as well.
It's important to understand that for the community it can often times feel a little quiet and with that silence a lot of the primary concerns look like they aren't being addressed. Frustration racks up and tensions get high - hell, as a diplomat I'm obligated a sense of clarity but just last night I blew my top over the fact that things weren't prioritized the way I'd like them to be (in particular, broken PC mechanics haven't been touched since May but vehicles/AV have been touched on time and time again).
Ideally I'd love for the content to be tweaked once or twice, rather than repeatedly. I'd love for the content that is truly broken (Logistics dropsuits being legitimately better at everything) rather than the things that have shifted back and forth on the great teeter totter o'balance. I know it's difficult but the lack of communication isn't helping anything. 1.6 should be just around the corner but we've heard nothing about it other than it's going to entail a few minor bug fixes and we've been confirmed a point release of 1.8 at the very least - so we've still a long way to go but no clue as to what to look forward to.
Suffice to say, we know more about what's coming in 1.7 than we do what's in 1.6 - I don't think that's optimal and should definitely be worked on.
But, here's to hoping the CPM can make some leeway with that.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3514
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Posted - 2013.10.29 13:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:"high level knowledgeable players"? PLEASE.
kain speros the only decent player in CPM, as well as being the only active player, probably the only one to play PC battles and probably the only one with a proto suit, oddly enough hes the only one with a decent head around his shoulders and a REAL understanding of this game as well as its players.
But the rest of the CPM is garbage in different ways like inactivity, bias, outright aholes, or just plain dumb. I could give multiple examples of each of these. Troll or not..... I do play, am CEO of my corp, play PC, got 20+ million SP and run the only french website on the game. And the other people you're criticizing all know the game like if they were born in it. And certainly gave much more interesting input than what you could in a lifetime judging by the brightness of your intervention. Having critics is one thing. Being plain insulting while not knowing who you're talking about is another. Now, to more constructive business... This statement is a good thing. It flashes light on some issues we had that can explain the supermassive black hole feeling most people probably had with the CPM so far. I never hid the fact it pretty much pushed me away from the game, combined to a general exhaustion feeling after focusing too much and too seriously on Dust for more than a year. But now, this is behind. And all i'm interested in, and i think most people CPM or not feel the same, is looking forward to how the game will change and evolve and how everyone can help in the process. Errors and mistakes are good for one thing : learning. So now, let's all join hands and sing while shooting people in the face.
Screen capping this epic pwnage.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3629
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Posted - 2013.11.05 19:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Noticed a lot of toxicity in this thread and I'd like to chime in as a neutral party between the two. Thing is, we do need a CPM because when you have thousands of players there are going to be a lot of different voices and not all of them are civil. When you can have six people in a room that, at least loosely correlates to those views than it gets easier to understand and easier to filter out all the garbage you usually see on the forums where people are screaming at one another alphanumerically because of the fact that they disagreed, not that they had something useful to bring up.
The CPM's role in all this isn't well voiced or communicated and you have to really dig down deep to get the true meaning behind it all because on the surface it does look like something fitting of controversy but it's important to realize that these guys were offered the position(s) because they had gone out of their way to help the community beforehand. A community based website with an IRC embed, a wiki, previous experience with EVE Online and the CSM... There's a bunch of reasons that these guys were selected and it wasn't because they were part of some big time player organization, though that does help because than you can understand the problems of these organized player groups which is what this game thrives on. It's very important to note that when you do something for the community, hearing the community's voice and relaying it usually comes hand-in-hand with that.
It's also important to remember that the players aren't the only ones who are stressed out here. CCP has been working very hard to get this game right and even though there's been a few teeter-totter moments, they've done a good job since Uprising first released. The CPM on the other hand probably has the most stressful job out of everyone solely because they're the middle man and lately they've been getting the **** end of the stick from both sides. This was made evidence by Nova Knife's post here and the general atmosphere that the community brings forth to them, with no more important an
example than this thread.
Were the CPM unprofessional in how they handled this situation? Absolutely, but you have to put yourself in their shoes. It's like being the poor waitress who brought an order to a customer and the cook was theone who made the honest mistake - eventually that waitress is going to snap off because, let's face it, no-one enjoys having to put a smile on while you're being yelled at. This isn't to say that CCP is playing the cook here, but there's no reason you should gang up on someone that doesn't deserve it and not expect them to lash back after a while.
Suffice to say what this became is a giant pile of bullshit on both sides. The community incited an argument and got a response, then turned around and chastised them for that response, using it as ammunition against them. Now everyone is forgetting the original issue that started it all, attacking the other side for the sake of it. I think everyone needs to take a step back, consider WHY they're fighting so hard and get to the bottom of what the real issue is. Because if it's solely over whether or not we need a CPM, that's a really stupid reason for the community and the CPM to get into a brawl.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3629
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Posted - 2013.11.05 19:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Noticed a lot of toxicity in this thread and I'd like to chime in as a neutral party between the two. Thing is, we do need a CPM because when you have thousands of players there are going to be a lot of different voices and not all of them are civil. When you can have six people in a room that, at least loosely correlates to those views than it gets easier to understand and easier to filter out all the garbage you usually see on the forums where people are screaming at one another alphanumerically because of the fact that they disagreed, not that they had something useful to bring up. Which is, unfortunately, exactly what seems to be happening here.
The CPM's role in all this isn't well voiced or communicated and you have to really dig down deep to get the true meaning behind it all because on the surface it does look like something fitting of controversy but it's important to realize that these guys were offered the position(s) because they had gone out of their way to help the community beforehand. A community based website with an IRC embed, a wiki, previous experience with EVE Online and the CSM... There's a bunch of reasons that these guys were selected and it wasn't because they were part of some big time player organization, though that does help because than you can understand the problems of these organized player groups which is what this game thrives on. It's very important to note that when you do something for the community, hearing the community's voice and relaying it usually comes hand-in-hand with that.
It's also important to remember that the players aren't the only ones who are stressed out here. CCP has been working very hard to get this game right and even though there's been a few teeter-totter moments, they've done a good job since Uprising first released. The CPM on the other hand probably has the most stressful job out of everyone solely because they're the middle man and lately they've been getting the **** end of the stick from both sides. This was made evidence by Nova Knife's post here and the general atmosphere that the community brings forth to them, with no more important an example than this thread.
Were the CPM unprofessional in how they handled this situation? Absolutely, but you have to put yourself in their shoes. It's like being the poor waitress who brought an order to a customer and the cook was theone who made the honest mistake - eventually that waitress is going to snap off because, let's face it, no-one enjoys having to put a smile on while you're being yelled at. This isn't to say that CCP is playing the cook here, but there's no reason you should gang up on someone that doesn't deserve it and not expect them to lash back after a while.
Suffice to say what this became is a giant pile of bullshit on both sides. The community incited an argument and got a response, then turned around and chastised them for that response, using it as ammunition against them. Now everyone is forgetting the original issue that started it all, attacking the other side for the sake of it. I think everyone needs to take a step back, consider WHY they're fighting so hard and get to the bottom of what the real issue is. Because if it's solely over whether or not we need a CPM, that's a really stupid reason for the community and the CPM to get into a brawl. But dude. Don't you know we're the ones who ruined CPM cause we want stuff for us and our friends ? Are you that blind ? More seriously. It's a nice metaphore. You should have add the cook had to change a big part of its kitchen hardware after receiving a bad review. So the waitress didnt have much to bring to the tables or back to the cook.
Let's try to reduce the hostility on both sides just a tad, yeah? Just eeeaaaasssseeee back because both sides are getting really hostile right now over something very silly and just tossing ammunition to one another while they're shooting! That's never good for a war 
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3631
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Posted - 2013.11.05 20:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
NanoCleric wrote:What about all those casual gamers who don't have time to read the forums much and miss things like this, what about all the multitudes of people that the CPM members simply would not have the real life time to do face to face sessions like this, what about the new players who have no idea who these CPM members are, what about those who do not have PC's (and there's many many of them), what about the 'majority' of active gamers.
That's why it's important to communicate with some of these larger player organizations, just as it is in Eve Online. Sure, there's a lot of tinfoil hattery and conspiracies that the CSM is all a bunch of null-sec bitter vets and their opinions are skewed but honestly, not everyone goes on the Forums on Eve Online either - so the only way to communicate with them is in-game.
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread.
Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work?
Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game.
Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end.
CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story......
It's really time to stop with the self-aggrandizing retaliation, inciting riots and the like when it's entirely unnecessary. Take a step back and look at this objectively because nothing that is being portrayed here is progressive, it's only taking steps backward. What can be done to make the communication between the community, the CPM and CCP better - that is what we need to focus on.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3636
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Posted - 2013.11.05 23:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:The majority of the community is calling for an end to this, go read the posts and see the significant disrespect out there for this group and this premise. Also go read CCP Dolans post at the front of this thread, he himself states it is not working. If CCP think its been a failure, why are you trying to defend a position that is untenable?
I was very aware when i decided to take this stance that i would come up against those who would not relinquish their soapbox of power easily (and their followers) but decided to do it as i get a huge volume of people mailing me asking what my thoughts are on the CPM concept... so here we are.
By their own admition there are groups forming right now with an agenda in mind to 'Fix scout suits' or to 'get tanks nerfed' etc etc i know because they some how feel they can buy my support so perhaps i do an election video for them and back them.
A flawed, corrupt and frankly pointless concept made by CCP so they can do a couple of good press items on it and wave a carrot on a stick over parts of the community.
Have some free will about you and show CCP they messed up and resign. Anything else is just eroding what little respect is left for you all.
You're mistaken. What he said was this:
"However, changes in key personnel within the DUST 514 development team has made it difficult to continuously engage the CPM in open dialogue regarding the development of DUST 514"
This isn't the CPM's fault, at all, and never did he say that it was not working. Quite the contrary, he says this:
"While there have been difficulties over the past 6 months, the CPM has demonstrated a continued commitment to working with CCP, and I must commend them for their dedicated time and effort. Their institution is invaluable in a game as new and rapidly growing as DUST 514, especially given the single shared universe it inhabits with EVE Online. CCP is fully committed to strengthening their relationship with the CPM and growing DUST 514 through the help of their collective expertise."
The only thing that is flawed, corrupt and frankly pointless is that there are those in the community that are attacking a system that has a few chinks in the armor, assuming that it in and of itself is broken when it isn't. As CCP says in the paragraph above, they strive THROUGH the difficulties and continue to perform at their best. They haven't given up on us and we shouldn't give up on them.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3636
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Posted - 2013.11.05 23:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:No i read the post fine, Dolan states it has not worked as planned, therefore it failed. Sorry that's how i read it.
I see CPMs openly abusing players (even in this thread) something that is not fitting their position
I see alliance members now clamoring to keep the CPM alive so that it can be twisted to suit their agendas
To me and most of the community i think its an open and shut case that this marketing ploy is done and the wider community would be best served with more open groups of people providing feedback and give CCP the respect they deserve to develop their game as the last few patches and months have been excellent all round due to direct coms from CCP and NOT via the CPM.
The facts speak for themselves, the community is receptive to the 'new way' of regular coms, regular patches, posts and treads direct from the developers, remind me, why do we need a CPM anymore?
Please quote where he says this please, because how you read it is likely not how it really is.
But this does go to prove something - how you read something likely isn't how it really is, which is why CCP doesn't post up their rough concepts because of reactions exactly like this. It gets misinterpreted and misconstrued. Logibro even says this in his post. CCP says that it's working, that their help has been invaluable.
Just as well, you can't say that the majority of the community agrees with you and then turn around to say that alliance members are clamoring to keep the CPM alive, it's contradictory.
This will be my last response as it's simply just a case of arguing against someone who seems to be very confused as to how things really work, and I greatly apologize that we can't help you understand it more clearly - that's a failure on everyone's part, unfortunately. I implore that we leave this as it is and move on.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3638
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Posted - 2013.11.06 01:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings guys, I just wanted to pop in for two specific reasons. One is to say that I am quite pleased with the progress we have made following my original posting of this statement. I just finished filling out the CPM budget for next year and have made a lot of progress on getting elections into a place where I am happy with them. CCP Logibro and CCP SaberWing have been doing great work helping to get the CPM involved with our upcoming development (much to CCP Logibro's lack of sleep, buy him a beer if you see him). I am sure we will be seeing even more meetings coming out of them in the future. Now for the less savory part of why I am here. So in this thread and in certain external mediums, some well respected members of the community (who actually have my personal contact information and could contact me at any time). Have been sharing some blatant misinformation about how the programs that I run and operate work on a fundamental basis. To help address some of these inaccuracies, I'll list a few bullet points:
- Making claims like "a majority of the community is calling for an end to this" is blatantly false, and I would like to see any sort of stats backing up this claim. I love to see when the majority of the community agree on anything, as it usually results in great changes, but you aren't going to find a consensus to support disbanding the CPM. I suspect that people are falling victim to confusing "the community" for "people who talk to me".
- Making claims that the CSM and CPM are marketing stunts and would be better replaced by a group of the "underprivileged or disabled", is frankly pretty insulting to a myriad of groups including myself, the CSM and CPM, the community members who support the elections, and the disabled. Honestly, if the CSM or CPM was some sort of marketing endeavor, you'd be hearing a lot more about them, but I really don't have the time to show them off to the general public as both the councils and myself are busy doing actual work to improve the games.
- Making claims that the CSM is in some way corrupt and that the CPM will follow suit is also blatantly false, and shows a severe lack of understanding of how the CSM and CPM operate. In the past, members who come in to only serve specific agendas quickly disappear in to the ether of irrelevance while constructive members actually get good things done. Pushing agendas isn't how the Councils work at all. Council members are not junior game designers, they are a sounding board for CCP ideas and provide feedback on our planned upcoming features and ideas. I understand that in the past CCP has made game decisions that have made some people upset, and CSM members have taken the opportunity to troll those upset people, but there is no part of being on the council that prevents you from trolling. If anyone feels that they have evidence of real corruption or information leaks on the CSM or CPM I would appreciate you mailing both myself and Internal Affairs so it can be properly dealt with.
- Making claims like "because things have not progressed as quickly as planned, the CPM project is a failure" is either just poor rhetoric or a lack of understanding of how game development and creative industries in general work. If CCP wrote off everything that did not progress as planned, as a failure then we would never have had a game and would have remained a group of 3 programmers in Iceland.
- Finally, while I have always been open to forming large focus groups to work on particular content (as was done by Hans Jagerblitzen during his CSM time to work on Incursions), I think many people underestimate the vital nature of an NDA to the whole council process. As Logibro detailed earlier, a certain amount of the things that the CSM and CPM hear are simply not fit for public consumption. Additionally, I think many people underestimate the time commitment required of council members. If someone thinks they can rapidly form large groups of knowledgeable players, have them all enter into a legal binding NDA, not have any of the info they receive leak, and do it with a 24 hour turnaround time from the request for info to them handing in their official feedback, then you should probably apply for my job because you are a miracle worker.
Whew, sorry for all that unpleasantness guys, I hope that I didn't spoil the mood. I just think that there are a lot of people out there who don't really understand how this whole thing works, yet still try to speak from some sort of position of authority on the matter, particularly among a group who might be less familiar with the CPM's predecessor. I have a lot of appreciation for the work that these guys do, and I also tend to get a little upset when people try to bend my words to support bad ideas. While I acknowledge that CPM project didn't do as well in it's first 6 months as I would have liked, I am not going to let people try and kick it while it is down. (P.S.- It's a little late here, so I'll let you guys do my spell checking for me  )
Excellent response and very glad you chimed in, Dolan. Unfortunately, there will always be a cynic in the group - but I feel like we, as a community, might have failed to help the others learn about how things really work and why the CPM is a necessity. Perhaps this is something we can work on in the future.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3644
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Posted - 2013.11.06 07:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I just want to know this;
How is CCP going to prevent alliances from monopolizing the CPM?
As Goonswarn has shown in eve, a voting block is a powerful thing to have. A thing that can easily sweep the non-alliance player (the majority of eve) under the rug.
Also
Why can't CCP just ask questions from time-to-time on the updates page? Just one page that ask a question with a yes/no/maybe selection.
Why shouldn't power blocs be allowed to field their representative? I mean, by definition a representative of a power bloc is, in essence, representing a vast majority, is it not? This was a concern fielded back when Mittani was in the CSM and he brought up a very interesting counter-argument: The only thing that could come from preventing power blocs from being allowed to vote for their representative is sufficiently preventing them from voting for the person they want to be in the council.
There's nothing wrong with power blocs and of course representatives campaigning will have the support of those that are closest to them, the support of those that have heard what their views are and are most closely associated with them. Denying them the ability to vote for that representative for fear of monopolizing is effectively reducing the voice of that entire percentage - are their views not equal as someone else's? Suffice to say, power blocs are where most of the problems are voiced anyway being as a large collective is more effective at noticing the high end problems - one such being the dreaded 'District Locking'. This isn't a problem that Public Matchmaker or Faction Warfare participants will actively notice or be concerned with.
I have made it an adamant point to express my views and opinions with as many as I possibly can and I've heard the voices of many people, even from corporations that we would consider our adversaries. While I'm not actively campaigning for CPM, it's no secret that I have expressed my intent to one day run for election, when such is available. The majority of these voices, however, come from the Power Blocs in PC - solely because they are, in my opinion, the best source of information for the high end gaming that Dust 514 offers and I'm sure that many with CPM/CSM experience would agree that nullifying the voice of the PC participants is effectively killing off a large portion of the player-base.
Fact is, CCP are like bloodhounds when they're looking for hidden agendas and ulterior motives. Monopolizing isn't something that you really need to worry about when the ideas being proposed are bat-**** and as the developers have come to realize through -many- years of experience, a silver tongue can do nothing more than hide that agenda, but it can still be found. The job of the CPM isn't to try and weasel in your personal motives and it's easy to recognize when you are. Those that will try, if ever elected, will find a quick path to being stonewalled.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3649
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Posted - 2013.11.06 10:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:Interesting reply Dolan, shame you missed the point on quite a few of the concerns raised. (it whiffed of 'reaction' and not absorption')
Alot of people are not happy with the CPM and the CSM (im amazed you deny this), given this is your actual job right, i can see why your keen to 'save' it but just go look at the forums, comments made on the video i released, hell go ask randoms what they think and you will find significant apathy and mostly disregard and suspicion to the entire CSM and CPM concept.
But lets just brush all that under the carpet and continue to allow major groups to suck up to CCP lets watch players who wish to be CPM white knight for the concept (many posting right here) and bring a big old stack of agendas to the CPM so the game development benefits the few and this problem grows as people become more disgruntled with this farce.
What are the issues you want addressed, assuming that the CPM is not a factor, than?
NanoCleric wrote:
So the fact remains, that unless a platform is provided to engage with the masses to give them a simple quick means to provide their opinions, then they will just remain hidden.
Since Closed Beta, I've received an opportunity to fill out three surveys via e-mail about the state of Dust 514 and CCP as a whole. It's entirely anonymous and I can express my opinions and views, in depth, without fear of recursive disregard of disapproval by my peers here on the forums. This is an excellent step in the right direction but I feel that they should send these surveys out a bit more frequently.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3651
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Posted - 2013.11.06 10:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
NanoCleric wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Since Closed Beta, I've received an opportunity to fill out three surveys via e-mail about the state of Dust 514 and CCP as a whole. It's entirely anonymous and I can express my opinions and views, in depth, without fear of recursive disregard of disapproval by my peers here on the forums. This is an excellent step in the right direction but I feel that they should send these surveys out a bit more frequently.
I wholeheartedly agree, i've also had these surveys and filled them out, however... we have to take into consideration two other factors on this. (1) We are playing a PS3 game, and as i've previously stated.. i was alarmed to find out just how many people didn't own PC's, so checking their mail would be difficult. (2) Even for those who do have PC's, nowadays a lot of spam gets through, and yes we can use filters for those of us who know enough to set them up, but there are many who don't know a lot about computing and may just delete that mail amongst other spam if they've not checked their mailbox for a while. So although yes it's great we get them, and yes if we were contacted more frequently it would be greater still... though i reiterate.. how much more frequent would it be, and how many more players would it engage if it was done through a tab on the update screen in game. That's a solution there... Might not be the ideal way, it could be adapted for sure... But there's a way to get the required engagement. Also to ensure that those who are totally unaware of the CPM and all these issues become aware. Perhaps even add in an interface option to post a message/petition to a CPM mailbox 'ingame'. What i've been saying this whole time is that the CPM can't represent a whole community if many have not been contacted and don't even know who they are. If they can't represent the whole community then they don't represent the community. Which is why i maintain it's easier to do this kind of thing in-house.. meaning within CCP. I'm hoping i don't have to post again, i've tried to clarify what i've said plenty, if people just take the time to read the explanations.
You know, CCP raRaRa (best dev ever btw) on Monday made it so that PS3 browsers had access to the Dust 514 forums. The only thing left to do there is increase awareness of it, the option is available to everyone now. I think we should advocate this ^_^
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3651
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Posted - 2013.11.06 10:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
NanoCleric wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
You know, CCP raRaRa (best dev ever btw) on Monday made it so that PS3 browsers had access to the Dust 514 forums. The only thing left to do there is increase awareness of it, the option is available to everyone now. I think we should advocate this ^_^
I wasn't aware of that, the last time we tried to do it, we ended up faffing around and it wouldn't work. That's good to know.. and again, these kind of things people don't suddenly become aware of, if there was a link in game to the forums (again if there is one.. i've not seen it) ... then that would aid feedback. Though, forums are not the nicest way of getting feedback, just look at this thread for an example... how much jibber jabber needs to be filtered to get anything useful. There has to be a cleaner platform via the ingame interface to make it 'easy' for people as i've previously said..
I don't think it gets much easier than that, unfortunately.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3658
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Posted - 2013.11.06 11:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
CPM gets very personal if you disagree with them, they back certain playstyles and try to crush others (vehicles is a very good example), actions speak louder than words and i have seen said actions benefit the corps and alliances they play for
This is why Betamax is such a prominent PC corporation, ladies and gentlemen.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3658
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Posted - 2013.11.06 11:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
CPM gets very personal if you disagree with them, they back certain playstyles and try to crush others (vehicles is a very good example), actions speak louder than words and i have seen said actions benefit the corps and alliances they play for
This is why Betamax is such a prominent PC corporation, ladies and gentlemen. In the early days yes they were, CRONOS was king, betamax was in CRONOS awoxing and locking up all districts along with the rest of CRONOS Then jenza run off with the corp wallet and disappeared for months after CRONOS fell
I think there'd be a lot more consistency if that were the case. If you want real conspiracy theories that were actually made flesh, go look into the t20 scandal and compare it to what we have now-a-days. This is why CCP has an internal affairs department and you're 100% free to send them a mail if you legitimately suspect foul play.
And, if memory serves, the capability to AWOX was very quickly nerfed there after. Even then, I think there should be more opportunities to take a corporation out from the inside as it's pretty difficult what with our PSN IDs freely available to anyone who can hit 'Gū¦'. It takes away a lot of what Eve Online is, where danger can come from anywhere.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3663
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Posted - 2013.11.07 07:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:
There are two problems with this system that I can see from first glance. First is that if you put in people's faces then their prone to get very annoyed. Some people just want to hop on and play some games, and being badgered by a questionnaire is something they won't want. And if you don't essentially force it in front of their faces, then you don't get the widespread exposure that you're talking about as most people will never even notice it exists.
What about those ads that you see on the side of the screen in the Mercenary Quarters? Yanno, the ones that show the Drop Uplink and random NPC corp advertisements or even the 'Orbital Strike: The Only Way to Be Sure'? I mean, it wouldn't be hard to come up with a small graphic that shows something like: CPM - Make Your Voice Heard! or something to that extent. Not everyone looks at it but it's not in your face, it's there for when you're idling between matches and all.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3664
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Posted - 2013.11.07 09:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread.
Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work?
Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game.
Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end.
CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story......
+1 I never liked the concept of the CSM in EVE. Down with the CPM/CSM.
Should try running with them sometime. You might change your mind.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3665
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Posted - 2013.11.07 17:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:If your reason for going for CPM or the CSM is a free trip to Iceland and a look at stuff early, you shouldnt be anywhere NEAR the job.
You'll last about 5 minutes.
True story. We had this in the previous CSM and the better members of the CSM went straight for the juggular and even suggested a few new rules to limit the abuse of this.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3676
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Posted - 2013.11.08 18:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:No disrespect intended or pointed to you. o7
I was merely commenting on a popular misconception that's been prevalent about the CSM and now the CPM that all it is just a free trip to Iceland once a year.
There's a lot of work involved. Emailing, video conferencing to different time zones, forum watching being on call to speak to Dev's at pretty much the drop of the hat.
It takes a special kind of sadomasochism to do it. Particularly when you get abuse from the players you're trying to help.
Even bigger misconception if you think you're going to Iceland when working with a studio that operates in Shanghai, lol. Made this mistake once back in May, so I can't jump people for it 
Nah, it's actually kind of a huge misconception that they get shipped anywhere, honestly. I don't think the CPM has summits like the CSM. Rather, they operate almost entirely on Skype.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3700
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Posted - 2013.11.12 12:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:For a game with around 2k a day active players, an ideas forum, developers talking directly to the community and providing excellent comms all round i do not see the point of the CPM anymore.
My 'stance' has produced a flurry of opinion around this topic and dialogue is always good but i still see many people supporting the CPM as an opportunity to become part of some 'Illuminati' club and spoon with CCP. Even without an agenda, this is pretty sad and creates a two tier player base, hence the resentment that has spawned on this matter over the year.
I will watch this 'concept' with interest while quietly noting those who are obviously looking to become CPM (many in this thread alone) as I suspect when/if the 'elections' begin, we will rekindle this topic once more.
It's a bit more than two thousand, sir. http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust
And as far as your stance producing a flurry of opinion - it's important to remember that this entire paragraph -
"My 'stance' has produced a flurry of opinion around this topic and dialogue is always good but i still see many people supporting the CPM as an opportunity to become part of some 'Illuminati' club and spoon with CCP. Even without an agenda, this is pretty sad and creates a two tier player base, hence the resentment that has spawned on this matter over the year."
- is also an opinion. One big, giant opinion. That 'resentment' has no basis and not legitimate evidence of it's existence, other than your word. You have not shown stats, votes or general consensus that this is the view of the greater majority. There are no riots taking place in game over this issue and there certainly are not articles regarding it on Eve24 or TheMittani. and what's even more pitiful than your shoddy attempt to dislodge the health of the community for the sake of your own agenda (this is starting to sound like a starburst commercial) is the fact that there is no justifiable reason for doing such beyond petty paranoia. You have YET to bring forth a justifiable reason that we don't need a CPM.
All in all your shenanigans and attempts to sound intellectual, prophetic and dignified are painting a different picture of a player who is appealing to the least common denominator by appealing to gullibility with false claims, with little to no backing and an almost cultish demeanor by trying to say that there is some vast conspiracy between developer and consumer over a ******* video game.
Just as well, if and when those members of the CPM are elected in, it will be solely because the majority of the people you claim to discourage the existence of the CPM, voted for them. So let that sink in for a second because you can't argue it both ways - they're either a conspiracy theory, complete with behind-the-curtains meetings about how to shift the game balance in their favor... or they're discouraging the CPM entirely and are likely not to even bother voting them in. So which is it, because obviously there has to be a majority in one or the other yet you claim that the majority are both.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3729
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Posted - 2013.11.13 05:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:
Good post, in this post you deny the game has very few people playing it, there are no problems with the CPM at all and that people are not unhappy with the CPM
What planet are you on?
You are obviously a clever guy and looking to become the next CPM candidate and all your postings have shown a massive defensive over reaction to people stating their own opinions and experiences that the CPM isn't fit for purpose and should go.
Let me guess you are one of those long term EVE players who tried year on year to get onto the CSM but just wasn't popular or even known enough to get through the door. The CPM represents your only option to get into the 'in club' that you so think it is. how close to the mark am I?
Of course now should you ever run for CPM you would be painted with exactly the above brush and all your comments and posts would be marked as biased and highly suspect as to your motives and frankly you are just damaging yourself with this futile over reaction to people standing up and saying the CPM is a bad idea, acting as if you can engineer others opinions.
I will naturally enjoy tracking your progress as you try to back peddle and state "ITS ALL OKAY BRO" and "DIDNT WANT TO BE CPM ANYWAY" while i sip this rather fine Mojito.
I never said there were no problems with the CPM at all, you assumed that much and just as well I never said there did not exist; people that were unhappy with them. Anytime someone gets on the CSM/CPM there is always going to be conspiracy theorists and generally disgruntled people who aren't happy with them, spewing acid in all directions in a desperate attempt to get attention, much like yourself
As far as me having a 'defense over reaction', I'd say it's justified being as (and I'll state it yet again since I can't make it clear enough) there hasn't been any justifiable reason for NOT having them other than "I'm unhappy because of reasons and you're not listening because you are happy with them." If you can legitimately state WHY we don't need the CPM other than this vague, arbitrary and over-broad answer (my god you would be an amazing politician) than I might be willing to change my mind, but so far the only thing you've got is baiting them into becoming aggressive in response to your trolling.
I never once ran for the CSM, never had any reason to because for a while I was just like you - pissed off at all of them and feeling discouraged... then things started getting better in game and I realized that they didn't have to communicate with me to understand the message I was expressing. Sure, there are a few that I didn't like at all (two step) because they were trolling on the forums but then I see this kind of banter and wonder how they manage the patience!
As to why I intend to run for CPM? Because I feel that I am entirely capable to express the logical and rational views of the common player (not the vocal minority!) to make the game better. I have an extensive testing background, going very in depth into my testing methods and providing screenshots, video, etc regarding that. As such, I've gained the attention of a lot of prominent players because I know their plight and I understand where they're coming from.
And, by the way, I don't give a rats ass about your opinions over anything that I say because I don't need your favor to help make this game as great as it can possibly be ^_^ That's the beauty of the CPM, even if every player in the world hates you they don't need to like you in order for healthy changes to occur in game. Ask The Mittani 
My favorite part is this though: "acting as if you can engineer others opinions." which you accuse me of - but somehow neglected to mention that you yourself did it by saying that the majority didn't like the CPM!
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3730
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Posted - 2013.11.13 10:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:I guess it doesnt help my case that CCP stated that it was not an exploit? And that I told CCP it was too easy and needed to be changed? because these two things are still facts.
And the truth is, people with the right roles can still awox, but its harder to do, which is good. We are not in world of warcraft or my little pony island adventure where things are all hugs and smiles. This is a slimy universe where we do things to get ahead within our personal boundaries of personal morality.
So I ask again; What insider information did I benifit from?
I don't think Dusters are quite prepared for the backstabbing that is Eve Online.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3733
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Posted - 2013.11.13 10:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
I don't think Dusters are quite prepared for the backstabbing that is Eve Online.
Based on Nullarbor's response to a thread recently complaining about a corp-jack by an EVE player, I don't think CCP cares 
Good.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3764
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Posted - 2013.11.14 01:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:
Why is it that I can directly twitter no less than 3 CPMs, 4 devs and send multiple forum posts about subjects that I feel are needing attention and it takes 2 months for anyone to get back to me with any information but in the span of 2-3 days you yourself have responded to my criticism no less than 3 times?
I'mma chalk that up to the fact that twitter is terrible and it's very hard to convey a lot of information in the character limits provided by the service. If you want real results, use Skype ^_^
ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3765
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Posted - 2013.11.14 02:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:
Why is it that I can directly twitter no less than 3 CPMs, 4 devs and send multiple forum posts about subjects that I feel are needing attention and it takes 2 months for anyone to get back to me with any information but in the span of 2-3 days you yourself have responded to my criticism no less than 3 times?
I'mma chalk that up to the fact that twitter is terrible and it's very hard to convey a lot of information in the character limits provided by the service. If you want real results, use Skype ^_^ I was actually installing skype as I was writing that post, and think it may resolve some of the communication issues I have been having. On the other hand just because I call someone doesn't mean they need to or will pick up at the other end or will say anything other than I'll get back to you on that.
Best not to call. Calling is sort of a 'formal' action when it comes to Skype - usually reserved for Podcasts, interviews, CSM/CPM meetings and the like. A simple message works just fine ^_^
While you're on Skype, talk to Hans about getting in on the Dustscussions: Vehicle Rebalance and Faction Warfare, talk about your ideas with the rest of the Dusters who use Skype! We don't bite that often =P
ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3774
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Posted - 2013.11.14 14:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:
Why is it that I can directly twitter no less than 3 CPMs, 4 devs and send multiple forum posts about subjects that I feel are needing attention and it takes 2 months for anyone to get back to me with any information but in the span of 2-3 days you yourself have responded to my criticism no less than 3 times?
I'mma chalk that up to the fact that twitter is terrible and it's very hard to convey a lot of information in the character limits provided by the service. If you want real results, use Skype ^_^ I was actually installing skype as I was writing that post, and think it may resolve some of the communication issues I have been having. On the other hand just because I call someone doesn't mean they need to or will pick up at the other end or will say anything other than I'll get back to you on that. Best not to call. Calling is sort of a 'formal' action when it comes to Skype - usually reserved for Podcasts, interviews, CSM/CPM meetings and the like. A simple message works just fine ^_^ While you're on Skype, talk to Hans about getting in on the Dustscussions: Vehicle Rebalance and Faction Warfare, talk about your ideas with the rest of the Dusters who use Skype! We don't bite that often =P I would but I still have yet to receive contact permission yet.
???? I've never heard of that. I just messaged them via IM lol.
ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5345
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
10Pawn Dust wrote:Just get rid of the CPM, ccp can poll the true fan base via vote
And then I'll just make twenty-nine more accounts and vote en masse for what I want 
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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