There are two problems with this system that I can see from first glance. First is that if you put in people's faces then their prone to get very annoyed. Some people just want to hop on and play some games, and being badgered by a questionnaire is something they won't want. And if you don't essentially force it in front of their faces, then you don't get the widespread exposure that you're talking about as most people will never even notice it exists.

First, I think you mean Catma, not dogma. Second, calculating all of the things I believe is the system known as "STIMS" Though I am far from certain. Catma is simply where item stats are stored, simple as that.


*Edit* Upon later inspection, it seems you may be completely correct. In EVE, Dogma is not only the system for holding item values, but also the system for applying those values.

I would like to reiterate my point, the CPM has not worked and CCP themselves have stated thus at the start of this thread.

Q&As, alliance chats and the like are not the issue, its a puppet show of a group of people who are both powerless and universally disregarded therefore why persist in trying to make this work?

Calling time on it right now before it perpetuates and becomes like the CSM where people are turning up with an agenda of their own to benefit the few is a massive risk to the commercial success of this game.

Already the community is polarised around this topic and the attitudes shown are frankly unprofessional and disrespectful of the granted position that was given. What makes it worse is the frankly shameful way the CPM are digging their fingernails into the door frame as the community collectively calls for this to end.

CCP your marketing gimmick is backfiring, perhaps its time to act before this becomes the news story......

+1

I never liked the concept of the CSM in EVE. Down with the CPM/CSM.

If your reason for going for CPM or the CSM is a free trip to Iceland and a look at stuff early, you shouldnt be anywhere NEAR the job.

You'll last about 5 minutes.

If your reason for going for CPM or the CSM is a free trip to Iceland and a look at stuff early, you shouldnt be anywhere NEAR the job.

No disrespect intended or pointed to you. o7

I was merely commenting on a popular misconception that's been prevalent about the CSM and now the CPM that all it is just a free trip to Iceland once a year.

There's a lot of work involved. Emailing, video conferencing to different time zones, forum watching being on call to speak to Dev's at pretty much the drop of the hat.

It takes a special kind of sadomasochism to do it. Particularly when you get abuse from the players you're trying to help.

First let me say I'm happy to see CCP taking the role of the CPM seriously.


I had the pleasure of having Nova Knife randomly join a public squad I was in, and played a couple of hours with him. He was asking about our feedback and things we want to see change. It was a lot of fun. I think more CPM members should make an effort to follow Nova Knife's example and use the squad finder to squad up with random players in public squads to hear what people have to say that may not be active on the forums. Squad finder is a powerful tool for this kind of thing.

For a game with around 2k a day active players, an ideas forum, developers talking directly to the community and providing excellent comms all round i do not see the point of the CPM anymore.

My 'stance' has produced a flurry of opinion around this topic and dialogue is always good but i still see many people supporting the CPM as an opportunity to become part of some 'Illuminati' club and spoon with CCP. Even without an agenda, this is pretty sad and creates a two tier player base, hence the resentment that has spawned on this matter over the year.

I will watch this 'concept' with interest while quietly noting those who are obviously looking to become CPM (many in this thread alone) as I suspect when/if the 'elections' begin, we will rekindle this topic once more.

I'm going to start off with a quick statement: The CPM has been nothing short of absolutely stellar. The times we have been able to use them as the resource that they were supposed to be has resulted in amazing feedback and progress. To everyone that believes that they have been doing very little, I would beg to differ and I would believe it completely disingenuous to call them useless. They have made themselves available at nearly any time we ask, ready to give instant feedback on any and everything. Yes it's behind closed doors at the moment, but that's the NDA - it's a double edged sword.

While the NDA prevents the CPM from telling the wider community a large number of things, what it does do is allow us to run raw ideas and sanity check crazy proposals without fear of the larger community taking it the wrong way. A number of truly ridiculous ideas have made it to the cutting room floor with the help of the CPM, and some excellent ideas have been proposed by them, been expanded by the development teams and actually borne fruit. There is absolutely no way that many of the details that we have shared with them so early would be disseminated among the wider public, as the ideas are too raw and unrefined to be ready for mass feedback. Doing so would result is a vast sea of half-built responses that would inundate the development teams, drowning out the well planned responses in a swarm of half-baked ideas due to a lack of a solid base for people to give feedback on.

The CPM is meant to be an advocacy council taking issues they see from the player base and raising them with us. They're also an amazing sanity check for our plans. While many of you can't see the impact they're making, trust me when I say that while we haven't always been giving them the support they deserve, they have been putting in mountains of work. But they do not dictate development. They act merely in an advisory capacity, and the final call will always remain in CCPGÇÖs hands. Infact, I have seen instances where CPM members have stated that their preferred play styles need to be nerfed for the good of the game.

The reaction that many of you are having right now is exactly the same reaction EVE players had when the CSM was first formed. Over many years they have had the ability to prove themselves as CCP has grown to include them as part of the development process. The CPM wonGÇÖt integrate overnight, but we do need to put more work into it. We can make it work, and we are committed to making it work.

[quote=CCP Logibro]

Jenza made a bad situation worse when she used the exploit, filled her pockets with PC ISK and even showed up in Hellstorm PC battles she was not supposed to be a part of (on our side at least). If a "representative" for our community is allowed to benefit from insider information

I would love to know what "insider information" you are talking about.

I knew exactly the same as everyone else, this "exploit" or so you call it has been around since corp battles where available. I or even anyone else didnt use it because there was no real reason or benefit until PC.

I still stand by my statement that this was not an exploit but emergent gameplay.

It's a bit more than two thousand, sir. http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust

And as far as your stance producing a flurry of opinion - it's important to remember that this entire paragraph -

"My 'stance' has produced a flurry of opinion around this topic and dialogue is always good but i still see many people supporting the CPM as an opportunity to become part of some 'Illuminati' club and spoon with CCP. Even without an agenda, this is pretty sad and creates a two tier player base, hence the resentment that has spawned on this matter over the year."

- is also an opinion. One big, giant opinion. That 'resentment' has no basis and not legitimate evidence of it's existence, other than your word. You have not shown stats, votes or general consensus that this is the view of the greater majority. There are no riots taking place in game over this issue and there certainly are not articles regarding it on Eve24 or TheMittani. and what's even more pitiful than your shoddy attempt to dislodge the health of the community for the sake of your own agenda (this is starting to sound like a starburst commercial) is the fact that there is no justifiable reason for doing such beyond petty paranoia. You have YET to bring forth a justifiable reason that we don't need a CPM.

All in all your shenanigans and attempts to sound intellectual, prophetic and dignified are painting a different picture of a player who is appealing to the least common denominator by appealing to gullibility with false claims, with little to no backing and an almost cultish demeanor by trying to say that there is some vast conspiracy between developer and consumer over a ******* video game.

Just as well, if and when those members of the CPM are elected in, it will be solely because the majority of the people you claim to discourage the existence of the CPM, voted for them. So let that sink in for a second because you can't argue it both ways - they're either a conspiracy theory, complete with behind-the-curtains meetings about how to shift the game balance in their favor... or they're discouraging the CPM entirely and are likely not to even bother voting them in. So which is it, because obviously there has to be a majority in one or the other yet you claim that the majority are both.

While I'm not actively campaigning for CPM, it's no secret that I have expressed my intent to one day run for election, when such is available.

*Cough*



*Cough*

... *heads off to find some cough syrup*...

I will not use the CPM because.... its a free to play GAME. Why would I bother emailing someone who will filter my thoughts before passing them onto CCP when I already have enough channels that I feel are more direct, open for peer review and comment.

I am a casual player, who just wants to have a bit of fun and a distraction for awhile.
If I feel the game is not to my liking I will simply find another. CCP should perhaps concentrate on improving more direct in-game communication with me.

Good post, in this post you deny the game has very few people playing it, there are no problems with the CPM at all and that people are not unhappy with the CPM

What planet are you on?

You are obviously a clever guy and looking to become the next CPM candidate and all your postings have shown a massive defensive over reaction to people stating their own opinions and experiences that the CPM isn't fit for purpose and should go.

Let me guess you are one of those long term EVE players who tried year on year to get onto the CSM but just wasn't popular or even known enough to get through the door. The CPM represents your only option to get into the 'in club' that you so think it is. how close to the mark am I?

Of course now should you ever run for CPM you would be painted with exactly the above brush and all your comments and posts would be marked as biased and highly suspect as to your motives and frankly you are just damaging yourself with this futile over reaction to people standing up and saying the CPM is a bad idea, acting as if you can engineer others opinions.

I will naturally enjoy tracking your progress as you try to back peddle and state "ITS ALL OKAY BRO" and "DIDNT WANT TO BE CPM ANYWAY" while i sip this rather fine Mojito.

developers talking directly to the community and providing excellent comms all round

I still see many people supporting the CPM as an opportunity to become part of some 'Illuminati' club and spoon with CCP.

While you guys are here, I know it's incredibly off topic but, what happened to rollover sp?

Good post, in this post you deny the game has very few people playing it, there are no problems with the CPM at all and that people are not unhappy with the CPM

What planet are you on?

You are obviously a clever guy and looking to become the next CPM candidate and all your postings have shown a massive defensive over reaction to people stating their own opinions and experiences that the CPM isn't fit for purpose and should go.

Let me guess you are one of those long term EVE players who tried year on year to get onto the CSM but just wasn't popular or even known enough to get through the door. The CPM represents your only option to get into the 'in club' that you so think it is. how close to the mark am I?

Of course now should you ever run for CPM you would be painted with exactly the above brush and all your comments and posts would be marked as biased and highly suspect as to your motives and frankly you are just damaging yourself with this futile over reaction to people standing up and saying the CPM is a bad idea, acting as if you can engineer others opinions.

I will naturally enjoy tracking your progress as you try to back peddle and state "ITS ALL OKAY BRO" and "DIDNT WANT TO BE CPM ANYWAY" while i sip this rather fine Mojito.