I like it to. Like I said earlier today. The game is much more user friendly after 1.4 and I-¦m sure we will see more gamers joining us now. Great battles out there at the moment so good stuff CCP!

The game is certainly more enjoyable now than it has been in a long long time, I even find myself wanting to log in when i'm playing something else (Prison Architect <3)

Look at this videos from other shooters from console, some of them are even more dramatic then in Dust.
In a Shooter with vehicles and other variable the aim assist needs to be stronger to compensate. In Dust we have even Kb/M user and to compensate THAT, you need to have a even stronger aim assist, or even a auto aim.
Here some Videos.

Battlefield 3
http://youtu.be/r9dLKS6Ndcs

Borderlands 2
http://youtu.be/k8F04HKUYag

CoD Black Ops 2
http://youtu.be/2VHlBwFp3xM

Halo 4 (you should see this, you would not believe it otherwise.)
http://youtu.be/ShQunpA7LI8

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
http://youtu.be/qaom3cdZv1c

Any "comfy chair gaming" argument getting tossed around so freely is completely negated by the fact that this is a part of the highly competitive EVE universe.

Your preferences in gaming dont matter jack here, this is balls to the wall cutthroat central.

I have had enough reading about AA (Aim Assist) and the crying, stupid videos and the things that CCP should do with the AA. I like the AA, in fact I love it! It's the first time that Dust become something enjoyable for me and my friends! My friend even start playing it again, all of them quit the game after the first attempts, now they are back and are something like curious what Dust will become next and about the potential.

You guys seems to forget something very important here! This is a PS3 game that only support using moue and keyboard. Not one is forcing you to do so, there is no rule that says "you have to play FPS this way" . This is not e-sports, this game is being played from sofas, easy chairs, in the living room more lying then really sitting. This is not a PC game and stop making it to your personal counter-strike-in-space! If you like to have competitive gaming then get the f*ck out and play quake.

There is no challenge in killing people using a Kb/M but it is hard to do so with a DS3 from a sofa when the TV is meters away! Do you ever wonder why Dust only have so little people playing? Because the people who are trying it, are getting killed without a chance and rage quit it. They leave it for other FPS. Playing with a DS3 against Kb/M is a joke! I try it once, I build up my PS3 next to my PC during the jita burn event, where we have to wait out the timer after killing freighters. Seeing the advantages I still took the PS3 back in the living room where I can sit more comfortable, drinking some beer at lazy Saturdays.
Aim assist for everybody! You can use it to! If you are playing with Kb/M then you should remember that the average gamer is not sitting in front of the monitor and a desk. Do I want the Kb/M support to be gone? No. CCP can keep it to satisfy the needs of people the way AA is satisfying me.

Aim Assist even have some huge advantages, you just need to open your eyes! I hope that CCP keep the aim assist, even if this means that they lose some hardcore nerds, let them go CCP, you will find more pleasant people out there.

The Aim Assist is even good for the hardcore players. With the AA more people are being attracted to Dust. More people means a bigger pool of players and a bigger pool of skill levels/heights (niveau). The AA is not the end of a line, it is a support. We still have room to progress our skills. A player who manage to aim and place the gun already pointed at the right sport will win the fight against a player who is following his opponent while aiming.

Before you getting started to tell me how stupid I am and that I should feel bad and that it's a miracle that I'm even alive, try to think about that the difference between the needs of a PC gamer and a console gamer.

Maybe if they'd done a bullet magnet like in Halo, where you don't see your aim changing and it happens so fast you just assume the bullets that hit your target were actually aimed at it, people wouldn't be so ragey

Any "comfy chair gaming" argument getting tossed around so freely is completely negated by the fact that this is a part of the highly competitive EVE universe.

Your preferences in gaming dont matter jack here, this is balls to the wall cutthroat central.

Aim assist done well every pro and Vet turns off because it mess's with their input... regardless ds3 or M/KB that is fact... This aim assist isnt an aim assist it aims for you it tracks for you.. that is a huge problem and one that can't be "Tonned" down...

CCP built this AA fundamentally wrong. You can't tone down a system that is wrong it doesnt make sense. Leaving us with a system that everyone in the FPS community will point and laugh at and shy even further away from, or something that has to removed yet again.

This is why they are so silent. they are trying to figure out a way to salvage this and have people accept a fundamentally broken system.

It sucks but AA has been another waste of time poorly done like every other attempt CCP has done... i don't understand what the surprise is.

You and your like have no power here!

If CCP wants to earn $$ they need more people. Welcome to the world of console gaming Beeeees.

~20k out of millions of ps3 owners, were playing a great f2p shooter. Why so low? They would download it, realize the gunplay was way below the standard for console shooters and they would uninstall and walk away. The number one feedback I got from all of my friends trying it out, was that the aiming was crap and the guns feel like crap to use. Not fun.

Go play fallout 3, that game has horrible aiming, but you can pause time and pick your shots so it was ok.
COD still has much stronger magnetism but the hide during the ADS animation.

I am a paying customer, buddy. Welcome to the world of customer and service provider relations.

CCP is silent on the manner because they're in collection mode most likely.

I have been giving them points made out by players for things to look out for such as :

aim assst sucks, i use a ds3 and i hate aim assist, we have played so long without it why the hell do we need it now? i prefer using actual hand eye cordination skill than just letting some robot track my target for me.

You are welcome to turn it of. I will use mine.

And another one of these "you can turn it of if you don't like it" comments.

A chunk of the community is so opposed to it, not because they feel like they're being forced to use something they don't want to, but because they feel that the playing field is all of a sudden overnight totally level.

This is an MMO FPS, its not supposed to be a level playing field. I'm not saying that "noobs should gravel at my feet!" but I am saying that noobs should learn to pick their battles, just like the rest of us did. The game instead is holding their hands and telling them that they are amazing and deserve a gold star too.

Oh hell, I even remember back on this April Fools day, CCP released that joke video ending with "and now we're going to be introducing a new race that is more casual and noob friendly."

One thing AA has done it's made the game more 'enjoyable' for ppl who can't play the game otherwise. For everyone else it has ruined the competitive aspect of, you know, a competitive FPS.

Dust is already hardcore enough.

We have a strong death punishment,

we have the backstabbing corp and alliance philosophy from eve,

we have the as*hole attitude community,

and we definitely don't need to make this game even harder.

Dust is already hardcore enough. We have a strong death punishment, we have the backstabbing corp and alliance philosophy from eve, we have the as*hole attitude community, and we definitely don't need to make this game even harder.

You mean like CoD or BF3? You know, the biggest FPS of all time?
They have AA and you can't turn it off, even if there is a menu. All you can do, is turn it off for the single player.

Your preferences in gaming dont matter jack here, this is balls to the wall cutthroat central.

Look at this videos from other shooters from console, some of them are even more dramatic then in Dust.
In a Shooter with vehicles and other variable the aim assist needs to be stronger to compensate. In Dust we have even Kb/M user and to compensate THAT, you need to have a even stronger aim assist, or even a auto aim.
Here some Videos.

Battlefield 3
http://youtu.be/r9dLKS6Ndcs

Borderlands 2
http://youtu.be/k8F04HKUYag

CoD Black Ops 2
http://youtu.be/2VHlBwFp3xM

Halo 4 (you should see this, you would not believe it otherwise.)
http://youtu.be/ShQunpA7LI8

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
http://youtu.be/qaom3cdZv1c

aim assst sucks, i use a ds3 and i hate aim assist, we have played so long without it why the hell do we need it now? i prefer using actual hand eye cordination skill than just letting some robot track my target for me.

Would this mean that your preference of balls to the wall cutthroat also doesn't matter?

When I play football in the real world against real people, I don't get to have tackle assist. When I play paintball against real people, I don't get aim assist. When I play a game against real people, I want to play against people, not against aim-bots.

What you are calling "e-sport" is regular level play for some. Just because you cant be assed to actually improve your game doesnt mean everyone else has to be put down on your level.

"Cutthroat Central" =/= e-sport

Thing about COD they don't hide it fast enough I feel the snap every time I ADS up when I was trying to train on how to quick scope.

The whole of New Eden is a ******* e-sport

See, when you say "competitive" I hear "e-sport".

I play just fine IMHO,

IDGAF what you think of how I play,

I play to have fun and I am satisfied with how I do.

Why should I have to "improve my game" if I am satisfied with it where it is?

lulz

you funny

I notice that you didn't answer my last question

And no, I just want a game of glorious conquests and crusades, not a game of half assed L1+R1 spam ad nauseum.

I want good players, born from effort and skill, not "good" players, born from "effort" and "skill".

Dust is already hardcore enough. We have a strong death punishment, we have the backstabbing corp and alliance philosophy from eve, we have the as*hole attitude community, and we definitely don't need to make this game even harder.

Why should I have to "improve my game" if I am satisfied with it where it is?

Then you need to check your eyes too.
Allow me to point it out for you:

This opinion is a cancer and a true sign of an entitled, unskilled player.

OMG, I spit soda on my monitor with this one

lol

My, you're just full of yourself aren't you?

OMG, I spit soda on my monitor with this one

lol

My, you're just full of yourself aren't you?

I think I understand what he meant: We should always be looking for ways to improve no matter how good we get.

Denial-mode engaged, strawman mode to lvl 3.

Buddy, you got rekd, accept it.

IDGAFx3 in this thread

You can think what you want, really, IDGAF, you're going to believe whatever delusions you think are popular so you can feel included with the "in-crowd".

@Lurchasaurus

Sorry if I saw a personal attack and took nothing else from the post. I am aware of the playstyle I've chosen from the start and the only thing preventing me from further developing it is the fact that we are stuck in lobby after lobby with no opportunity for open world, FPS PvP.

If we had that option, I'd be able to further develop my playstyle.

We don't, therefore I am happy with where I am and will continue to be until I have a proper environment to develop my playstyle. If you think that I am an "entitled and unskilled player" because of this, go ahead, again, IDGAF.

If you'll take note, I've been playing less and less, quickly going down the road of Dust Bittervet.

I hope without manipulation? I hope you mention that there are people who like the AA ;).




You are welcome to turn it of. I will use mine.

If this game plans to bring in new players aim assist is a must. I believe that the aim assist is perfect. I compare this aim assist to that of halo. In halo gunfights last longer, players jump, strafe and move everywhere. In halo aim assist is a must because 90 percent of the time your tracking your targets during gunfights while jumping and moving around. I feel like the same stands for dust. If CCp decides to take away aim assist, and fix KBM then the only people who will get shafted are the DS3 users. Aiming with KBM is much more precise than DS3. Making fine adjustments at long range, and in your face CQC is where the DS3 fails. Us controller users need a way to balance out the playing field, and thats with aim assist. Which is usually standard on most console games. Why it was taken off in Dust makes no sense to me. And besides probably the reason why people have been getting killed more is not aim assist, but the fact that CCP finally fixed aiming with the DS3. Before 1.4 aiming with the DS3 was awful. Hip firing and ADS had the same aiming speed, and the controls were sluggish, clunky, and wonky.

When I play football in the real world against real people, I don't get to have tackle assist. When I play paintball against real people, I don't get aim assist. When I play a game against real people, I want to play against people, not against aim-bots.

Mouse and keyboard dominate ds3 without aim assist.There was no way to be competitive with a ds3 before.All those crying about aa are try hards who are used to get all those free kills and now thay cant anymore,,,cry more plz.(all console games have aim assist)

you realize strafing is dead in 1.4?

im pretty sure most ds3 players i play with would tell you otherwise. i guess it is convenient to assume all ds3 players are incapable of aiming tho to make your point.

It's not that. You literally can't follow a guy who strafe with a keyboard. Even if you have a great eye-fingers coordination you can't follow your target. To strafe with a keyboard you just press "a" "d" for lateral strafe. If you strafe with a ds3 the difference is noticeable, because you see your target strafing "slower" because its change of direction is much slower, letting you track its movement far easier.

and...I don't want to talk about mouse sensitivity vs pad sensitivity.

while a mouse has precision over the ds3, a gamepad has much more mobility than a keyboard.

for instance, if i want to throw a grenade, i have to press the x key, which in turn makes me take a finger off wasd. This cannot be rebound lol

You mean like CoD or BF3? You know, the biggest FPS of all time?
They have AA and you can't turn it off, even if there is a menu. All you can do, is turn it off for the single player.

I did not play those games. Well, 3 matches in COD and one evenining in BF3 and I did not touch either one since then. They are the biggest FPS of all time only in the heads of ppl who play them. AA is for lazy ppl. COD preys on lazy ppl (incidentally the majority of console market) with a demand for self-validation. Also, aim assist is the lazy way of adjusting aiming mechanics.

People play this game to get away from easy mode COD meatgrinders, or at least a large amount of the above average players I have played with do.

....and? I played MAG really a lot, and strafing was nearly impossible. Why is it a problem if you can't strafe? Mind you, it's not because you are good, it's because you (or your opponent) lag, so you might think "whoa this guy really suck at aiming" or "better than matrix hell yeah". Just adapt your play style. Take cover, shoot, take cover, reload, shoot again. Call your reinforcements because now there's almost no way you can survive a 3 vs 1. Don't get me wrong, I don't consider myself a noob that needs AA to survive (my 4.5 kdr speaks by itself) and even if I'm dying more now, I really find the whole game more enjoyable. If you really like to dodge things there are a lot of games that allows you to. Metal Slug, R-Type etc

I'll make you a deal, if you and "the above average players [you] have played with" all buy $10,000 of game packs every month to keep DUST financially viable/sustainable, then we'll let CCP nerf AA into oblivion so you can run around feeling good about yourselves, using your Kb/M to rack up your K/D ratio.

I'll make you a deal, if you and "the above average players [you] have played with" all buy $10,000 of game packs every month to keep DUST financially viable/sustainable, then we'll let CCP nerf AA into oblivion so you can run around feeling good about yourselves, using your Kb/M to rack up your K/D ratio.

In order for DUST to even exist this time next year we need to bring in a lot more new blood (and quickly). The #1 complaint I've heard from new players and reviewers are the controls feel bad. We need proper gameplay tutorials too for sure (people don't read walls of text CCP they want to fight right away). Being accessible to newer players is critical to the survival of this game, making you and the above average players you play with feel superiorl isn't.

Removing the 10% buff to all weapon damage would help make fights a little longer, with tank & dps mods playing a larger role in the outcome which should (slightly) favor the vet player in most fights. Since this was originally added to compensate for removing AA at Uprising's launch, it stands to reason that the first change CCP implements would be removing this now unnessisarily addition since they've brought back AA.

If this still isn't sufficient, one option would be to reduce AA slightly in FW & PC matches to reward hardcore players. Another option would be giving players who use the controller with AA disabled a 10% SP bonus for being better "superior to everyone else."

[quote=Vell0cet]Ill make you a deal, if you and "the below average player [you] have played with" all buy $10,000 of game packs every month to keep DUST finantially viable/sustainable, then we-¦ll get CCP to add a wallhack to your aimbot, so you can run around feeling good about yourselves, using AA to rack up your K/D ratio.

Oh and one more thing:
This is a ******* computer game, you are supposed to feel good about yourself when you play it.

having a computer aim for you isnt making the controls feel better. it is taking the controls away. before you get all huffy puffy why not pull your head out of your as.s and see the auto tracking aim assist for what it really is. no one is asking for aim assist to be taken away, it simply needs to be toned down to it doesnt aim for you.

The biggest problem with you people is you think making the game an instant gratification, no skills required game like COD will miraculously fix this game and make people happy. I am sick of COD, it has ruined a genre of gaming, and it breeds players with bad values and a horrible understanding of skill and what constitutes it.

No one gets into a freaking titan in EVE after playing for one week. I hold Dust higher than the other FPSs because it has things that you can actually earn and compensates me for my time investment. CCP will be forsaking their most hardcore fans if they listen to your drivel and the one single game we can still hope for to break the mold and get out of the easy mode gutter will be ruined.

I hope CCP reads this, I am tired of people coming on here demanding things be layed out on a red carpet for them simply because they dont feel they should have to put in as much effort as everyone else has because it is incomvenient.

HTFU

Having a computer aim for you isnt making the controls feel better. it is taking the controls away. before you get all huffy puffy why not pull your head out of your as.s and see the auto tracking aim assist for what it really is. no one is asking for aim assist to be taken away, it simply needs to be toned down to it doesnt aim for you.

The biggest problem with you people is you think making the game an instant gratification, no skills required game like COD will miraculously fix this game and make people happy. I am sick of COD, it has ruined a genre of gaming, and it breeds players with bad values and a horrible understanding of skill and what constitutes it.

No one gets into a freaking titan in EVE after playing for one week. I hold Dust higher than the other FPSs because it has things that you can actually earn and compensates me for my time investment. CCP will be forsaking their most hardcore fans if they listen to your drivel and the one single game we can still hope for to break the mold and get out of the easy mode gutter will be ruined.

I hope CCP reads this, I am tired of people coming on here demanding things be layed out on a red carpet for them simply because they dont feel they should have to put in as much effort as everyone else has because it is incomvenient.

HTFU

To summarize the OP's post:

"I suck at the game, my friends suck at the game...we love the massive crutch that aim assist is just like we love to ride bikes with training wheels. It's the first time we're "good" at the game!! Let's ignore everyone who has legit skill and focus on people like us, people who suck without crutches."

Why are you here crying like a little baby?

I'm not crying...I'm stating a FACT.

Why do you keep your head stuck in the sand and pretend everything's alright?

Are you a little baby?

So your best comeback is an ad hominem attack? And you accuse others of being a baby? The irony is strong in your posts

This game is only "hardcore" to those of simple mind.

CoD and Battlefield arnt competitive on consoles, if you think they are, go to a gaming tourney with big prizes, guess what, they dont have the games and if the remote chance they allow it, its the PC version without AA on.

My preferences of balls to the wall cutthroat are those of someone who is here to stay no matter what.

Appealing to the top 10% of the tiny player base isn't a financially viable business model for DUST.

Exactly, and when people fire up DUST to give it a shot despite the lackluster reviews and discover they can't hit for s*it, they uninstall and move on. It's money down the drain for CCP. We need to grow the player base by several orders of magnitude for this game to survive. It's unbelievable that you can't seem to appreciate that.

What on earth are you talking about? It's not more user friendly!

Yes it is. Everyone with eyes can see this. The gap between the newbies and the protos is less than before 1.4. More user friendly. You will see this in the upcoming weeks when the gamers start to flock in 2 play the game.

That's because they removed all requirements for SKILL and replaced it with a crutch! A game without the requirement for skill is pointless because all challenge is gone.

I'm not childish enough to play a game just because it's suddenly "easy" and because I get a hardon for scoring points. I play games for the challenge.

You obviously disagree and prefer games with training wheels because you care more about "points" than actual skill.

The game needs more players. It was 2 hard for the newbies to shoot against us protobears before so they left. What is it that you want sunshine? Run around alone while playing Dust? Why are you crying??

So what they should have done is introduce proper matchmaking...not giving all sucky players a massive crutch that removes all skill from the game.

Also, keep it up with your ad hominem attacks (google it, it don't think you know what that means) if you want...it makes you look like a 12 year old player who sucks at the game

Let's just face facts here: You don't care about skills, all you care about is scoring points. If that means Dust has to turn into an "easy mode" game, so be it. No skills required, no challenge wanted...

The OP posted links showing that DUST's AA is in line with other console shooters in the industry (weaker than most actually). It's what players expect when they fire up a console shooter. Do you honestly think there is a large enough console player base with "good values", as you put it, to sustain DUST's development? If there are, where the f*ck have they been?

I think you're failing to grasp the basic economics behind a FTP business model: you need a massive pool of players. In order to get a massive pool of players you need to appeal to what they want and expect.

I've posted suggestions on how things could be improved to still reward the top players, you've seem to ignore them. Is it because this is less about competing at the highest levels with players having "good values" and more about your desire to pump up your stats by stomping newbies?

Yes it is. Everyone with eyes can see this. The gap between the newbies and the protos is less than before 1.4. More user friendly. You will see this in the upcoming weeks when the gamers start to flock in 2 play the game.

To those saying that AA is a MUST for new players to stay in the game... IT'S NOT!

What is a must is more game modes and a better MATCHMAKING SYSTEM!
That way they play with ppl on their level.

AA off is a way to retain all of us who have played with it off and gained skill and aiming since beta. Or start of uprising.

ALSO: AA is not needed to "compete" with kbm. The best players in the game use ds3. And they do just fine.

The game needs more players. It was 2 hard for the newbies to shoot against us protobears before so they left. What is it that you want sunshine? Run around alone while playing Dust? Why are you crying??

Appealing to the top 10% is the reason CCP still exists. See EVE.

This game does not need an inflow of noskill-CoDshitters that will be gone the second the new CoD is released.
We need more content, once we got proper deployables and at least some variety in dropsuits the people will flow in because "wow what an awesome game", and not because "HAY BRUV CHECK OUT COD:BLOPS 514".

I use a ds3 but not aim assist and the update to the ds3 is epic much easier to track targets now don't get we wrong i still miss. The reason the vets!!!! Cough are crying is because the kbm isn't superior any more and they can't give each other reach arounds when looking at there KDR at the end of the match

If EVE got rid of all the care bears, the economy would collapse and the elite 10% in EVE wouldn't have anything to play. It's also not a twitch game, which you seem to think is the pinnacle of gameplay. What makes EVE interesting is module choice, teamwork, and strategy/tactics. AA doesn't reduce these aspects of DUST at all, in fact they make those aspects of the game even more important.



You're delusional if you think there will be a massive influx of players eager to get pubstomped for months until they build up the aiming skill and SP to be competitive with Kb/M vets just by adding a few new suits and deployables. You're right that many of the CoD players will be flaky and move on to other titles, but the RPG aspects of DUST and the passive SP gains will draw many of them back (and many will still run passive SP boosters while they're taking a break--helping sustain development). This is especially true when new content is added in the biannual expansions. Not to mention the fact that the power of corps and social gameplay will keep them coming back to want to defend their "sandcastles".

DUST is still a very deep game, even with AA, and it will only get moreso as new content comes in. Also, you've not addressed my point about ways the system could be tweaked to still reward hardcore players.

I am purely disgusted and I don't have enough pity to go around for all the people who think that aim assist is godsend.

"DS3 users now have a chance against KB/M!! lelelel"

Sounds like, "I sucked really hard at this game but now with aim assist, I'm amazing"

I pity everyone who said that because you are admitting that you suck at aiming without aim assist. Especially since there are players out there who uses gamepads and still own without aim assist.

You couldn't kill a player before because you have no skill. So you pride yourself now that you can kill with the help of aim assist.

That is utterly pathetic.

Praising your aim assist equates to nothing but a cry for help because you lack the skill you degenerate uneducated plebeian.

And for those who claim aim assist should be in Dust 514 because it's a console game like other FPS games should just play those other plebeian games like those other useless sacks of skin they call players.

Because Dust 514 is pronounced as Dust 514, not Call of Duty, Which means, if you haven't guessed, it's a different game.

I played Dust 514 for its promise of becoming a better FPS game than the other FPS casual games. I stayed for the in-depth character customization that gives players the chance to be better than others. And I continued playing for the challenge of playing with no aim assist.

But obviously, they were all shattered in just one day.

Dust is one of the few games now where skill in aiming is actually demanded and rewarded. Well, at least until 1.4.

Dont attribute the flaws of matchmaking to the need for strong aim assist.

@ Sir Petersen:

Of course Dust in its current form isn't for me. I like a challenge and I don't like to ride bikes with training wheels...which sadly is exactly what Dust is in its current form.

It's a game for people who don't like a challenge, a game for people who don't care about actual skills...people like you.

Dust is a bit like the polar opposite to EVE. While Eve is meant for people who like a challenge, for people who don't need a crutch, Dust is the exact opposite. It caters to the smallest (and dumbest) denominator.

For people that think Kbm rules dust...

Sounds like this gug is a little up himself dont you think? People need to stop lokking at this from a vets point of veiw!! If you consider non aim assist ownage when noone has it, is that skill or twitchy fingers?

You are perfect liberty to use the same system as them, you misinterpret pride for satisfaction, they over joyed they can actually kill stuff now!!

If you were a real pro, not just some who believes there entitled to the moniker because they have been here for a while, you would adapt like so many others have!! (Im not saying this applies to YOU specifically, its just in general)

Skill ks an illusion, you can't test or prove the exsistance of skill in any game like this, there are too many variables, skill is nothing more than luck in games like this, who sees who first, who gets shot in the back, who happens to be in the wrong place at the right time!!

It is skill. Whether or not twitchy fingers is part of it or not.

Skill is not an illusion. I agree there are many variables, but you can't deny people that have like 6+ kds with an AR don't have skill. That's utter crap. The "pros" you are referring to have already adapted. Much like myself. But it doesn't mean we LIKE it!

We liked it before!

That is why we are here on the forums trying to get AA at LEAST toned down..a lot!

And what about all the people who like it and are not on the forums?
The majority of people is not here. Only a very few.

Obviously those of us who have been here for any amount of time will adapt to whatever CCP throws at us. In my opinion aim assist that slows the reticle as it aproaces an enemy is fine, aim assist that includes a little friction when the reticle moves across an enemy is fine. I can not however support an aim assist with magnatism, if you need the computer to aim for you I don't know what to say other then get good. CCP all you have to do is get rid of the magnatism associated with aim assist and all will be right with the world once again.

What's wrong with: [Standard Aim Assist] the existing system that is in-line with existing AAs in the industry. This is only available in pub matches. [Weak Aim Assist] Reduced version of Standard AA, no (or almost no) magnetism. This mode is available in all game modes and grants a 2% bonus to SP gain. And [No Aim Assist] which is available everywhere and grants a 10% SP boost?

Also, reducing all weapon damage by 10% will help vets, since fights will be a bit longer and reward intelligent module choices more and allow for better tactics.

What about them? I could say the same...

What about the people who dislike it and aren't on the forums?

What's wrong with: [Standard Aim Assist] the existing system that is in-line with existing AAs in the industry. This is only available in pub matches. [Weak Aim Assist] Reduced version of Standard AA, no (or almost no) magnetism. This mode is available in all game modes and grants a 2% bonus to SP gain. And [No Aim Assist] which is available everywhere and grants a 10% SP boost?

Also, reducing all weapon damage by 10% will help vets, since fights will be a bit longer and reward intelligent module choices more and allow for better tactics.

I am just giving them a list of things to see if its over toned as one could put it and might need toning down or that what is happening on the field is not what they're intending ect ect. I'm not trying to get rid of it just alleviate some of the worst cases where the AA might be doing more harm than good.

It is skill. Whether or not twitchy fingers is part of it or not.

Skill is not an illusion. I agree there are many variables, but you can't deny people that have like 6+ kds with an AR don't have skill. That's utter crap. The "pros" you are referring to have already adapted. Much like myself. But it doesn't mean we LIKE it!

We liked it before!

That is why we are here on the forums trying to get AA at LEAST toned down..a lot!

It's probably been said many times but extreme accuracy at extreme range plays h*ll with the balance at the longer end of things. Subjectively it seems easier to be picked off while sniping at what used to be a relatively safe distance. I hope that isn't by design.

I worry that the commercialization efforts by the hired gun might have to be at the expense of the role I prefer.

its simple; 99% of you happy, satisfied and keen with the new AA system are people that before 1.4 weren't that good in aiming and killing.

When I play football in the real world against real people, I don't get to have tackle assist. When I play paintball against real people, I don't get aim assist. When I play a game against real people, I want to play against people, not against aim-bots.

I've not heard this suggestion yet and If CCP were able to implement it I would support it if it gave you an increase to your weekly cap. But I still say no magnatism, do you really want to play a competitive fps where the game aims for you (even if it's in a small way)?

I can very easily explain that 6+ kdr is down to luck!!

Maybe if they'd done a bullet magnet like in Halo, where you don't see your aim changing and it happens so fast you just assume the bullets that hit your target were actually aimed at it, people wouldn't be so ragey

I can very easily explain that 6+ kdr is down to luck!! Have you heard of the lucjy particle theory? The theory dictates that so long as a subject s not at absolute zero, anything can happen!! You can but a beaker of water in room tempreture and leave it there, it will then procede to evaporate, it happens so slowly kt would take a good month or even considerably longer before 25ml beaker empties!! But it happens because a particle gets lucky, statistically it will happen rarely or even almost never, but by the fact there are so many opportunities for it too happen!!

But I digrese, I dont see how using a fully automatic weapon that deals 360dps requires skill, and if people who claim to have skill actually have it, then why is it such a bother? Yes I agree AA needs toning down, a little, I dont agree with the principle that it move your reticule for you, but if you continue to accuse "aimbot" of being game breaking, then no amount of logical arguments are going to convince you otherwise!!

But answer me this,
Should we have aim assist, why?
Is it the problem with the aim assist or is possible it more than just 1 factor?
Do you believe whole heartly that having aim assist is breaking or ruining the game for everyone or just for vets?
Should we not do our best to cater for as many people as possible?

Scumbag Monkey MAC:


Proceeds to give an explanation so convoluted the Time Cube guy offers him an honorary degree in crazy.

This thread is filled with the highest quotient of entitled gold-star coveting whining I've ever seen. Why do any of you even play a game where other people can kill you if all you want is to be rewarded for the bare minimum of effort?

I content myself with the fact that the PS3 is the cocoon in which Dust is currently gestating in, and that most of you whiners will have moved on to the next FOTM when it finally hatches and moves onto it's long term platform.

Sorry I didn't really mean to say "AR" and the whole 6kd thing. I was just in the heat of my typing spree.

As for your q's
1. No we shouldn't have AA. Because it takes away the amount of skill required to play this tracking shooter.
2. It probably is more than 2 factors. Strafing got lowered again so ppl can't strafe as fast anymore, as well as hd got better. However I do believe AA is a problem.
3.Id say it ruins it more so for vets simply because we have been playing this game with AA off for such a long time.
4. No we shouldn't cater ppl. This is the eve universe. If any catering should happen, it should be to make matchmaking better. Or allow new players to stay in academy longer.

I have had enough reading about AA (Aim Assist) and the crying, stupid videos and the things that CCP should do with the AA. I like the AA, in fact I love it! It's the first time that Dust become something enjoyable for me and my friends! My friend even start playing it again, all of them quit the game after the first attempts, now they are back and are something like curious what Dust will become next and about the potential.

You guys seems to forget something very important here! This is a PS3 game that only support using moue and keyboard. Not one is forcing you to do so, there is no rule that says "you have to play FPS this way" . This is not e-sports, this game is being played from sofas, easy chairs, in the living room more lying then really sitting. This is not a PC game and stop making it to your personal counter-strike-in-space! If you like to have competitive gaming then get the f*ck out and play quake.

There is no challenge in killing people using a Kb/M but it is hard to do so with a DS3 from a sofa when the TV is meters away! Do you ever wonder why Dust only have so little people playing? Because the people who are trying it, are getting killed without a chance and rage quit it. They leave it for other FPS. Playing with a DS3 against Kb/M is a joke! I try it once, I build up my PS3 next to my PC during the jita burn event, where we have to wait out the timer after killing freighters. Seeing the advantages I still took the PS3 back in the living room where I can sit more comfortable, drinking some beer at lazy Saturdays.
Aim assist for everybody! You can use it to! If you are playing with Kb/M then you should remember that the average gamer is not sitting in front of the monitor and a desk. Do I want the Kb/M support to be gone? No. CCP can keep it to satisfy the needs of people the way AA is satisfying me.

Aim Assist even have some huge advantages, you just need to open your eyes! I hope that CCP keep the aim assist, even if this means that they lose some hardcore nerds, let them go CCP, you will find more pleasant people out there.

The Aim Assist is even good for the hardcore players. With the AA more people are being attracted to Dust. More people means a bigger pool of players and a bigger pool of skill levels/heights (niveau). The AA is not the end of a line, it is a support. We still have room to progress our skills. A player who manage to aim and place the gun already pointed at the right sport will win the fight against a player who is following his opponent while aiming.

Before you getting started to tell me how stupid I am and that I should feel bad and that it's a miracle that I'm even alive, try to think about that the difference between the needs of a PC gamer and a console gamer.

It's just how HD and AA have lowered TTKs to the point of destroying Regen and speed tanking.

Precisely, I dont think AA is too much of an issue, but what we aren't happy about is how quickly you drop a guh with a full auto weapon!!

Wouldn't removing the 10% damage buff go a long ways towards resolving this issue?

This is not a PC game and stop making it to your personal counter-strike-in-space! If you like to have competitive gaming then get the f*ck out and play quake.

Even though DS3 have a physical disadvantage (and hush on this "KB/M simulating the DS3" nonsense...yea, thats how it was...hence the rotation speed limitations the mouse had prior to 1.4), you still want the entire cake dont ya?

You people seem to have forgotten they emulated the DS3, by putting a rotation speed limiter on the mouse.

They removed that in 1.4.

KB/M are completely unobstructed as if it was unreal tourmanent 2004 now.

Contend with the AA (aye, its a bit strong atm....but i guess you think thats wrong even though you were using a KB/M against DS3 users without a reliable AA), or remove both AA and KB/M from Dust because neither belong on this console FPS.

M/KB doesn't allow raw input. So your point is moot. I'm a M/KB user on most FPS that are compatible but favor controller here because M/KB is absolutely crap right now. It's not about who has the advantage with what interface they prefer, it's about a series of hot fixes that were put in place to compensate for issues that have been resolved. End of story.

Okay. 1.5 will have raw input.
I'll believe that when I see it. 1.4 was supposed to have raw input, didn't work out so well.


All PC FPS games are compatible with KB/M. Tell me one other console FPS game that supports KB/M to make me believe you had a point in telling me what control type you prefer to use.
Unreal on PS3 supports m/kb. And there are dozens of PC games where you can use pad if you want.


DS3 was absolutely crap for months while KB/M was easy and accepted by most to use.
The mouse has been awful for literally months now. I'm just recently seeing the game in HD again after playing with it at 480 since that slightly helped the mouse not feel as floaty. The mouse has never felt quite right in this game. But with every release we're told it'll be fixed, and they somehow manage to make it worse.

Okay. 1.5 will have raw input.

All PC FPS games are compatible with KB/M. Tell me one other console FPS game that supports KB/M to make me believe you had a point in telling me what control type you prefer to use.

DS3 was absolutely crap for months while KB/M was easy and accepted by most to use.

What did they hotfix to compensate for an issue that you solely thought was resolved? I'm not able to predict your woes.

Not many PS3 games are compatible, but there's ways around it through emulation. CS supports it though. Only reason why I brought it up was to eliminate any artful dodgers from trying to label me as an "evil mouse user" or whatever strawman label that's going around lately.

What game was KB/M easy to use? Sure as hell wasn't Dust unless you're talking about Chromosome.

Check a few posts back. They implemented the 10% damage increase on weapons to compensate for the aiming issues after the first week of uprising. That's only one hot fix that we know of. I'll bet that they also tweaked hit boxes and weapon dispersion as well. Right now, hitting you mark is almost too easy. I've even seen times where I'm landing hits with my MD that I know I shouldn't have. Even being off center with a rifle has the same effect. Maybe it's lag or hit box latency or I just don't know, but it needs to be looked into.

When I play football in the real world against real people, I don't get to have tackle assist. When I play paintball against real people, I don't get aim assist. When I play a game against real people, I want to play against people, not against aim-bots.

I don't understand the argument "AA is needed to balance out kbm"

Honestly I don't understand it. I get that kbm might have more precise aiming.. But ds3 can achieve that.

You feel its physically identical using thumbs to tilt sticks in different directions, opposed to a hand making precise fluid motions with the flick of a wrist?

With that logic, I suppose when doing pushups its easier to simply push the earth away from you.

Hmm.. I guess I'm just ignorant. But when it comes to the best players in the game... They all use ds3. At least most of them do. I myself use ds3 and prob would never have a prob outgunning a kbm user.

You feel its physically identical using thumbs to tilt sticks in different directions, opposed to a hand making precise fluid motions with the flick of a wrist?

or are you saying there isn't an advantage to using a KB/M over a DS3 because the DS3 user can work to achieve the same precision the KB/M user has by default?

Wait, you know personally the best people in dust?

Thats the only way you could know if they use DS3.

The best players in Dust all use genetically engineered hamsters to morph into a controller.

See? I can say things and act like they are facts too.

I see what you mean now. Kbm starts off with the precision a ds3 user might take weeks to achieve. Especially if the game is new to them.

However I don't think that should be used to argue for the kbm removal. :/

Nemo stated one, but didn't realize they used Magnetism and adhesion aim assiting (sound familiar Nemo?) to make it an even playing field against KB/M.

Aye, i actually was talking about chromosome. Mouse was pretty damn awesome. Wish they would let you change the hotkeys though....that grenade hotkey....

I do remember them doing the 10% increase to help the gameplay, but wasn't it cause of hit detection? ****, i just don't remember. Right now i'll agree the AA is slightly too strong, but to go as far as remove it? i dont see it posing that much of a threat consdering the only problems with the KB/M can be easily fixed as well through hotfixes that are surely coming.

All in all i feel people are blowing things out of proportion simply based on their fear of change.

Personally, I don't care if we have aim assist or not. But the game has to be balanced around its purpose: fair competition between input devices. Right now, there's no point to have it and especially when it's this strong or whatever is going on with how they balanced the game to compensate for previous issues. Also, strafing speeds need to be looked at as well. The new armor movement penalties essentially amount to nothing when you're weighed down by two complex plates when you move laterally.

Any "comfy chair gaming" argument getting tossed around so freely is completely negated by the fact that this is a part of the highly competitive EVE universe.

Your preferences in gaming dont matter jack here, this is balls to the wall cutthroat central.

EVE universe competitiveness has nothing to do in PvP engagements. It is about brain, tactics and amount of SP your fleet has.
- Your fleet commander warping you around and telling you when to press F1
- Or even worse. You assign drones and the fleet commander does everything for you.
Where is the individual skill? But that is good. That's why you see 4k people battles and not 40 PRO people battles

1v1 is mostly about t1 frigs where a newbie can excel in 1-3 months.

With the AA on better players will still be better than newbies. They have faster reaction i suppose, better tactical awareness, so the AA can only enhance that.
What does AA do is that other people can punish your mistakes (not taking cover ex.) more easily.

AA flattens the curve between PROs (fast reflexes with brain usage) and those that use the brain but have slightly worse reflexes.
...
...
...

My preferences of balls to the wall cutthroat are those of someone who is here to stay no matter what. I dont care if the AA is essentialy an aimbot, or how ungodly overpowered the AR is.
I am going to whine about **** I dont like on the forums loudly, but I wont be throwing a tantrum or quit the game because "boo hoo they turned AA on/off, now it sucks."

And as history of CCPs financial success shows, these are the people they count on.

The balls to the wall cutthroat hardcore nieche of the market.

quote

DUST 514 is my first console FPS, where is your god now?
I cant be newer of a player buddy. I clawed my way through and expect others to do the same.

You should definitely try others FPS my friend. I donGÇÖt want so say that you lack experience

First CONSOLE FPS, brah. Reading comprehension.

This is not a competitive FPS......yes its not anymore because scrubs like you and CCP have destroyed it.

I'm proud sadly it is not only me, we have to thank a lot of people especially CCP for making this game fun again.

Maybe CCP should remove KBM support and take away aim assist. Then all our problems will be solved.

And Merl Jin you are a one sided idiot a game should never be built around one party the reason your thread is almost ********. Unless that game is built towards a certain play style "Dust 514" more hardcore and competitive you can not weed out certain play groups. So a carebear coming in to a game where isk, skill points, and player skill is everything and then suggesting things like Aim-Assist and catering to the noobs in which CCP pretty much laugh at you for suggesting it is just wrong.

******sigh******

And people wonder why this game is failing so hardcore with such low player counts. Yes lets take FPS and make it noncompetitive by allowing the computer to do most of the aiming for you.

I am sorry but no. Aim assist (if there even is any at all) should be very very small.....it should never be enough to actually move your cross hair. I can go with lowering your sensitivity slightly when your own target to help you maintain the target but that is the most it should ever be...if the target moves you should have to be forced to follow your target to hit them effectively. Its pathetic the number of likes this person rcved from his post. Whatever happened to the "hardcore" universe of Eve? I have never played a more carebear FPS in my life. This is pretty soon they will just give everyone jet packs that shoot rainbow out of your butts so that you can actually play carebear episodes online.

This is not a competitive FPS......yes its not anymore because scrubs like you and CCP have destroyed it. CCPs original vision was that it would become a major hardcore FPS competitive shooter. Yea they lost that once badly. Why even call it an FPS anymore? Must make it turn based already so that all the Eve kiddies can enjoy their FPS game that doesnt require any handeye coordination skills.

I have had enough reading about AA (Aim Assist) and the crying, stupid videos and the things that CCP should do with the AA. I like the AA, in fact I love it! It's the first time that Dust become something enjoyable for me and my friends! My friend even start playing it again, all of them quit the game after the first attempts, now they are back and are something like curious what Dust will become next and about the potential.

You guys seems to forget something very important here! This is a PS3 game that only support using moue and keyboard. Not one is forcing you to do so, there is no rule that says "you have to play FPS this way" . This is not e-sports, this game is being played from sofas, easy chairs, in the living room more lying then really sitting. This is not a PC game and stop making it to your personal counter-strike-in-space! If you like to have competitive gaming then get the f*ck out and play quake.

There is no challenge in killing people using a Kb/M but it is hard to do so with a DS3 from a sofa when the TV is meters away! Do you ever wonder why Dust only have so little people playing? Because the people who are trying it, are getting killed without a chance and rage quit it. They leave it for other FPS. Playing with a DS3 against Kb/M is a joke! I try it once, I build up my PS3 next to my PC during the jita burn event, where we have to wait out the timer after killing freighters. Seeing the advantages I still took the PS3 back in the living room where I can sit more comfortable, drinking some beer at lazy Saturdays.
Aim assist for everybody! You can use it to! If you are playing with Kb/M then you should remember that the average gamer is not sitting in front of the monitor and a desk. Do I want the Kb/M support to be gone? No. CCP can keep it to satisfy the needs of people the way AA is satisfying me.

Aim Assist even have some huge advantages, you just need to open your eyes! I hope that CCP keep the aim assist, even if this means that they lose some hardcore nerds, let them go CCP, you will find more pleasant people out there.

The Aim Assist is even good for the hardcore players. With the AA more people are being attracted to Dust. More people means a bigger pool of players and a bigger pool of skill levels/heights (niveau). The AA is not the end of a line, it is a support. We still have room to progress our skills. A player who manage to aim and place the gun already pointed at the right sport will win the fight against a player who is following his opponent while aiming.

Before you getting started to tell me how stupid I am and that I should feel bad and that it's a miracle that I'm even alive, try to think about that the difference between the needs of a PC gamer and a console gamer.

I can read, you still should go and try for example BF3 to see how controls could be.

ambitious casual

And people wonder why this game is failing so hardcore with such low player counts. Yes lets take FPS and make it noncompetitive by allowing the computer to do most of the aiming for you.

I am sorry but no. Aim assist (if there even is any at all) should be very very small.....it should never be enough to actually move your cross hair. I can go with lowering your sensitivity slightly when your own target to help you maintain the target but that is the most it should ever be...if the target moves you should have to be forced to follow your target to hit them effectively. Its pathetic the number of likes this person rcved from his post. Whatever happened to the "hardcore" universe of Eve? I have never played a more carebear FPS in my life. This is pretty soon they will just give everyone jet packs that shoot rainbow out of your butts so that you can actually play carebear episodes online.

This is not a competitive FPS......yes its not anymore because scrubs like you and CCP have destroyed it. CCPs original vision was that it would become a major hardcore FPS competitive shooter. Yea they lost that once badly. Why even call it an FPS anymore? Must make it turn based already so that all the Eve kiddies can enjoy their FPS game that doesnt require any handeye coordination skills.

It was failing WITHOUT aim assist. People would try the game, not be able to kill anything and uninstall. If No AA was so f*cking fantastic, where were all of the HARDCORE FPS console fans out there? A: they were probably all playing DUST (and there's only a few thousand of you). That's NOT A LARGE ENOUGH PLAYERBASE to keep DUST going.


Spastically strafing in bizarre directions while being able to hit other people doing the same isn't fun gameplay to a lot of people. It's f*cking stupid to put it bluntly, and nothing like real combat. You can think this is hardcore, or the pinnacle of FPS gameplay, but when one dude can run into a squad of 4 people and take them all down because the controls are such that it's too hard for everyone to hit him, then the game is broken. This would never happen in real life, being "hardcore" to me means having engagements play out more like they would if DUST were real: I.e. no one would ever charge into a group of 4 guys, and if they did they would be shot and killed (even if he was wearing a high-end suit).

Strawman after strawman riding on strawmen

There are lots of reasons Uprising turned people off, and most of those were entirely technical, like hit detection, physics glitches, incomplete content, pick one or all.

This has nothing to do with AA or its abscense.

And what "a lot of people" consider fun, they should please live out in games that are specifically tailored to their needs. Like CoD or Battlefield or any other L1+R1-shooter.

I am not giving EA a single cent.

And also


These 2 terms are mutually exclusive.
Either you give a f-¦ck, or you dont.

If you do, HTFU.
If you dont, stop ruining this game thank you very much.

There are tons of casual shooters out there for your liking, why do you feel compelled to **** up that one that tries not to be one of them?

You really are a stressful fella. Are you capable to maintain a certain behavior without getting verbal all the time? Do you really think that my influence here is so big? I personally ascribe my contribution to this topic only marginal. The Likes I get on the very first page only shows me that there are more people who are thinking the way I am. And I donGÇÖt believe that casual gamers should disclaim something only due to the lack of time. You still can (you should always!) be quite ambitions in the things you do.

There are lots of reasons Uprising turned people off, and most of those were entirely technical, like hit detection, physics glitches, incomplete content, pick one or all.

This has nothing to do with AA or its abscense.

And what "a lot of people" consider fun, they should please live out in games that are specifically tailored to their needs. Like CoD or Battlefield or any other L1+R1-shooter.

By far the #1 reason I've heard people complain about DUST is the controls.

You've consistently demonstrated the inability to grasp the basic realities behind the FTP economic model. In order for it to work, it needs BROAD APPEAL.

DUST won't survive unless it can appeal to these players you're trashing.

The skill system and depth of customization already make DUST a more niche game as it is.

The control mechanics should feel familiar to people who've played other console FPS games.

There is no challenge in killing people using a Kb/M but it is hard to do so with a DS3 from a sofa when the TV is meters away!

Oh wow, i am so sorry that we KBM users have been ruining your leisure sofa relax hour when you could barely watch the TV....

Its not like we are trying to kill each other in this game that it requires some kind of attention span ....aw Snap ...wait ...IT DOES...
I mean, your just standing there ....so i shouldnt shoot you ?

I though i had heard em all from you couch potatos, but this one tips the iceberg...

And no, using KBM isnt a challenge, you plug it in and press keys like a DS3, it becomes an art when done perfectly...

yeah....i read that one and facepalmed.....

pretty sad to see that coming from a serious mouth.

Yup can you believe those guys lol.

It must be so hard on these guys, i cant begin to imagine the pain of lying back on a sofa, padded by some soft cushions, beer in the left hand, ds3 in the right hand watching a 50" inch screen while playing and a 7.1 dolby surround system booms sounds trough kenwood speakers.

I instantly feel gimped sitting on a chair, straight up, 5.1 dolby surround headset peering at a small 26" screen wielding a KBM setup that gives me carpal tunnel syndrome...

/Facewall because Facepalm just isnt enough...

I personally really enjoy playing with KB/M from my sofa (well at least as far as dust let me enjoy playing with KB/M) although I only have a 46 inch TV with surroundsound...