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KA24DERT
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
88
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Posted - 2013.09.08 17:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Scumbag Monkey MAC:
Monkey MAC wrote:
I can very easily explain that 6+ kdr is down to luck!!
Proceeds to give an explanation so convoluted the Time Cube guy offers him an honorary degree in crazy.
This thread is filled with the highest quotient of entitled gold-star coveting whining I've ever seen. Why do any of you even play a game where other people can kill you if all you want is to be rewarded for the bare minimum of effort?
I content myself with the fact that the PS3 is the cocoon in which Dust is currently gestating in, and that most of you whiners will have moved on to the next FOTM when it finally hatches and moves onto it's long term platform. |
KA24DERT
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
91
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Posted - 2013.09.10 15:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
meri jin wrote:Congratulation to you guys. You have found one sentence and took it out of context. We have a nearly 11 Pages discussion here but you can feel free to use my phrase as a manifesto for your war against AA. Please make sure you quote it correctly then. meri jin wrote:
...
There is no challenge in killing people using a Kb/M but it is hard to do so with a DS3 from a sofa when the TV is meters away!
...
Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1273865#post1273865 Date: 10.09.2013 16:18
Ignoring your statement that KB/M makes the game have no challenge...
In what context does this sentence NOT put forth your laziness as a supporting argument to your thesis that it's a good idea to equalize players that practice and push themselves with players that want to sit on a couch and receive great rewards without great effort?
You spelled out the very reason why competitive players dislike what auto aim is doing to this game! Of course we're going to use it as an example!
Quote:
But I still hope that some of you understand the meaning behind this sentence. There are two different types of way playing this game and most imported is that there are different input devices. This input devices mostly represent two different communities and philosophies. The right way would be to remove the option to disable / enable AA and enable it from the start.
After that completely remove the KB/M support for this is a console game. There is a reason why no other shooter is making the step to allow the use of KB/M.
But look at me, I'm not demanding that it should be removed, all I was saying is that this game started to be fun again for me and my friends. Still you can feel free to make fun of my way to play video games, I'm not going to comment this.
Translation: We should remove KB/M from the game, but I'm not saying that KB/M should be removed.
...i dont even |
KA24DERT
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
114
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Posted - 2013.09.15 02:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Cosgar wrote:Played a few games and it looks like they made the necessary tweaks to make aim assist assist your aim instead of full out auto aim. Hope everyone that got to play above their weight class can get to that point again through practice and effort. Also, learn to strafe. Footwork in Dust 514 is as bad as a country club in an 80's National Lampoon movie. Every match I played today was a total blowout. I'm sure all of the elite players are thrilled...
Relax, take a breath.
Pubs should not influence the decision to add a huge game changer like auto aim into the mix.
What you actually want is matchmaking. |
KA24DERT
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
114
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Posted - 2013.09.15 02:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Well AA has effected balance, radically. And I've yet to hear why my suggestion is bad. Pub matches may not be the pinnacle of gameplay, but I suspect that 80%+ of the population is playing them exclusively.
How will people practice and perfect their gun game if the AA changes depending on the type of match?
Aim your damned self, all day, every day, and this problem goes away. |
KA24DERT
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
118
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Posted - 2013.09.15 04:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Well AA has effected balance, radically. And I've yet to hear why my suggestion is bad. Pub matches may not be the pinnacle of gameplay, but I suspect that 80%+ of the population is playing them exclusively. How will people practice and perfect their gun game if the AA changes depending on the type of match? Aim your damned self, all day, every day, and this problem goes away. Because they can use the weak setting in pub matches too (and get a small SP bonus).
You're violating the KISS principle, and you'll violate it further every time someone asks a question about your proposed system to solve a non problem.
Simplest fix is to remove auto aim and make DS3 and mouse fully configurable. People will learn how to aim. |
KA24DERT
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
123
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Posted - 2013.09.15 17:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Vell0cet wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Well AA has effected balance, radically. And I've yet to hear why my suggestion is bad. Pub matches may not be the pinnacle of gameplay, but I suspect that 80%+ of the population is playing them exclusively. How will people practice and perfect their gun game if the AA changes depending on the type of match? Aim your damned self, all day, every day, and this problem goes away. Because they can use the weak setting in pub matches too (and get a small SP bonus). You're violating the KISS principle, and you'll violate it further every time someone asks a question about your proposed system to solve a non problem. Simplest fix is to remove auto aim and make DS3 and mouse fully configurable. People will learn how to aim. Do you realize how ironic it is to say that my suggestion is too complex (standard AA & weak AA) when your suggestion includes tons of sliders for all kinds of controller variables. Look I'd love to have a hip fire and ads setting for each weapon. I'd love to be able get a setting where from 0-25% the stick is very low sensitivity, and when it's 100% it's very fast. Having those options won't fix the AA problem. The AA problem is that new players will load up dust, not be able to hit anything and uninstall. 90% of them won't even realize they can configure the controls, and of the ones that do, they probably won't bother because it'll look overwhelming and they haven't even decided if they like the game yet. I've spent a lot of time studying user interaction design, and I can assure you that the solution needs to be simple. Making the AA feel like it does on other console shooters is critical for people's first impressions. If you want to keep competition pure at the highest levels, then fine restrict the controls to weak AA for FW & PC. That isn't complicated, it follows the design principle of progressive disclosure, and it sucks in new players and incentivses them to improve.
To be clear, my view is that the AA problem is that AA is even in this game. It is a crutch, and many players in this game and others do not need it, and do not want it, and after it's gone, won't even miss it. There are people in PC games that can't aim to save their lives, and there is nothing to save them except their investment in themselves. Yet PC FPS servers are still crowded with people of varying skill level and seriousness, and there is no rage quitting because people who can't aim don't have an Aim Assist (unless they are CHEATING, to put it in perspective...).
Your proposal provides for an inconsistent game experience, and as newbies make their way into planetary conquest they will hit a hard wall, and the only way to get a shot at that wall again is to somehow be invited back into a PC. They will get tired of getting stomped and getting kicked from pc due to bad performance, and now you introduce the danger of having an even bigger segregated community of pubbers vs PC participants.
As for the wall of sliders, that can be hidden behind an "advanced" tab. The immediately available preset profiles will be:
Profile B (Battlefield)
Profile C (Cod)
Profile X (Chromosome)
Profile U (Uprising)
This is much more simple from a programming and game design perspective, as all they are doing is exposing the variables they currently have hard-coded into the game, and will prevent people from having to relearn the controls every patch. This, along with tiered battles, is a much better application of Progressive Disclosure, without changing the entire game to placate people who can't aim. |
KA24DERT
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
127
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Posted - 2013.09.16 17:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:KA24DERT wrote:To be clear, my view is that the AA problem is that AA is even in this game. It is a crutch, and many players in this game and others do not need it, and do not want it, and after it's gone, won't even miss it. There are people in PC games that can't aim to save their lives, and there is nothing to save them except their investment in themselves. Yet PC FPS servers are still crowded with people of varying skill level and seriousness, and there is no rage quitting because people who can't aim don't have an Aim Assist (unless they are CHEATING, to put it in perspective...).
Your proposal provides for an inconsistent game experience, and as newbies make their way into planetary conquest they will hit a hard wall, and the only way to get a shot at that wall again is to somehow be invited back into a PC. They will get tired of getting stomped and getting kicked from pc due to bad performance, and now you introduce the danger of having an even bigger segregated community of pubbers vs PC participants.
As for the wall of sliders, that can be hidden behind an "advanced" tab. The immediately available preset profiles will be:
Profile B (Battlefield)
Profile C (Cod)
Profile X (Chromosome)
Profile U (Uprising)
This is much more simple from a programming and game design perspective, as all they are doing is exposing the variables they currently have hard-coded into the game, and will prevent people from having to relearn the controls every patch. This, along with tiered battles, is a much better application of Progressive Disclosure, without changing the entire game to placate people who can't aim. Players who want to get into PC/FW can practice for it by playing in pub matches with the weak aim assist setting (and even receive a small SP boost for doing so). If they've played to the point where they're interested in the higher levels of competition then they're already over the "hump," so to speak. They've probably managed to acquire at least a couple million SP and are seeing their character take shape. At this point they're much less likely to walk away if they find out that FW & PC have weaker AA. I'm pretty confident my proposal would drastically improve new player retention over yours. I agree with the need for full controller customization, but I think keeping the AA as it was at 1.4's launch in "high sec" pub matches would make the experience for new players (and review sites) in-line with the rest of the console FPS industry. There's already a lot to get your head around when you start playing DUST for the first time, and not having the AA that they've grown accustomed to will make the game feel awkward and not worth messing with. I can guarantee you most people will just uninstall instead of trying to figure out how to mess with the controls (or even know they can mess with the controls).
Your focus is still on retaining players at the cost of fundamentally changing gun-play in this game, and reducing the point of being skilled.
Is that a smart trade?
What happens to that middle-of-the-road player who has a slightly higher level of marksmanship to his competition? His skill advantage will be all but erased by AA. Where should his rewards for practice be eroded to placate some lazy entitled whiner?
So what if some skilless noob rage quits after being stomped? Screw that guy, nothing will ever make him happy. Tons of games on PC have no aim assist and those games are healthily populated by people of all skill levels.
This kind of crutch isn't something that belongs in any competitive game, let alone something in the Eve universe. Eve is hard game by video game standards, and I think it's ok if Dust is "hard" by "console" standards. |
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