Not much less damage, but being able to carry only 2 instead of 3 and less homing would help.

EDIT: I also wish grenades weren't restockable by nanohives and only came back at supply depots.

av grenades do far too much damage for what they are, they should NOT be a primary av weapon for anyone, even if you have av nades, you should only be effective with them if your real weapons are out of ammo and we are barely alive (100HP left), only then shouldan av grenade be effective

So what your saying is, AV nades currently do too much damage and are used as a primary AV weapon, and that is wrong because they are well, grenades. Should do less damage but is 100 damage too little?

As we should all know by now, AV and vehicals are going to be changed in 1.5 and most likely 1.6 and will be changed completly. as evident in this post:


So, im going to go through the whole list of AV weapons in different threads and try to collect a non biased collection of feedback the Devs can use to change vehicals and AV. So remember, what we post here is what they may listen to. Lets start with AV nades. What are your guys thoughts?

Personally, i find these weapons too versitle and easy to use because you get 3 of them, they hone in your targets, do a massive amount of damage (av naders can bring high passive resist shield tanks down to half shields in 3 throws) and do not require line of sight to destroy vehicals (can throw over cover plus hone in, no acuracy required). They are also effective land mines, and one person can solo a tank with a nano hive. Also, they do not penalize the user in fitting or combat efficiency too much cuz their jus grenades, and you can get proto AV nades by jus specing grenader, there should prolly be a skill for AV nades, locus and flux grenades, seperatly

thats my input, feel free to correct or add on your thoughts but whatever you say, SAY WHY!! We want to give good reasoning behind our oppinions

Do you even have AV grenades to proto? Or has your poorly fit tank just been popped by them. Because it sounds like the latter. They are not the OP good weapon that you make them out to be. First, you have to get in close against a vehicle that can blast you apart in me seconds, before you even have a chance to throw. Second, they are crap against shield tanks. Third, a well for mardrugar will cut the damage done in half, with or even kicking in reps.

AV weapons are powerful for a reason : to keep vehicles in check. Right now, it only is keeping the poorly fitted and those who aren't paying attention at bay. Well fitted talks shrug them off, and logi LAVs barely notice.

So please. Do us a favor. Shut up, and stop posting.

Seriously leave the AV nades the **** alone
They absolutely need the the damage otherwise there would be very little to deter vehicle players and Ill use the murder taxi problem as an example, before people specced into better AV options you would see the trucks just going back and forth feeling completely safe but now that there is more danger to them out in the field they try to hit and run or get blown up

Same thing with tanks, how often in the past have you seen one park next to a CRU to rack up kills
With the grenades high spike damage it at the very least scares him off since now he knows there is danger


Now as for homing its really not as good as you think it is, more often than not for the homing to be effective, especially with a packed grenade since those have a much shorter homing range, your throw would already have to be dead on
On top of that theres a delay between throwing, homing activation, and the explosion so youll end up having grenades bounce off a vehicles hull before the homing actually kicks in and the thing explodes



Now I know the likely counter argument is "They arent a primary blah blah blah" and thats right they arent, even with the high spike damage you have limited ammo, limited range, and the scenario of 'People just throw down hives and spam them" only works if the vehicle driver is a complete dunce and is sitting stone still



So yeah, summary time
Viable deterrent option that is perfect as is since it carries enough limitations to counter the spike damage and the only ones that it will constantly be deadly to are bad drivers

At the very least, a 25% reduction to AV grenade damage. They shouldn't be used to solo vehicles. The fact they could do that means they're horribly OP. They should simply add to the damage going towards a vehicle, just like the plasma cannon does.

So squad up with people that use AV weapons, or start using the commando suit. You can't be a damn jack of all trades with one suit, but CCP gave it to you anyway.

Do you even have AV grenades to proto? Or has your poorly fit tank just been popped by them. Because it sounds like the latter. They are not the OP good weapon that you make them out to be. First, you have to get in close against a vehicle that can blast you apart in me seconds, before you even have a chance to throw. Second, they are crap against shield tanks. Third, a well for mardrugar will cut the damage done in half, with or even kicking in reps.

AV weapons are powerful for a reason : to keep vehicles in check. Right now, it only is keeping the poorly fitted and those who aren't paying attention at bay. Well fitted talks shrug them off, and logi LAVs barely notice.

So please. Do us a favor. Shut up, and stop posting.

He wont be happy until his little toy is indestructible, every post Ive seen of his relating to AV and vehicle balance is just crying for them to be nerfed into uselessness

The only vehicles they can solo under normal circumstances are LAVs and even then you need the footwork of a matador on *******
The only tanks getting blown up solely by AV nades are ones that are being badly driven and most drivers rather than working on their driving skills demand instead that they should be able to survive driving into the middle of a squad and have no harm come to them

And I'll say it again: Do you have any idea what it's like to watch half your armor melt away from one swarm volley?

Lol badly driven

Describe "badly driven." Odds are, the best tankers in the game do that as well. We don't all hide behind the red line.

Hell, I popped Cakeman's Gunnlogi because he came too close. In a battle of compressed particle cannon, I won out because I have the advantage versus shields, plus the option of up to 3 damage mods.

Please, describe badly driven.

As we should all know by now, AV and vehicals are going to be changed in 1.5 and most likely 1.6 and will be changed completly. as evident in this post:


So, im going to go through the whole list of AV weapons in different threads and try to collect a non biased collection of feedback the Devs can use to change vehicals and AV. So remember, what we post here is what they may listen to. Lets start with AV nades. What are your guys thoughts?

Personally, i find these weapons too versitle and easy to use because you get 3 of them, they hone in your targets, do a massive amount of damage (av naders can bring high passive resist shield tanks down to half shields in 3 throws) and do not require line of sight to destroy vehicals (can throw over cover plus hone in, no acuracy required). They are also effective land mines, and one person can solo a tank with a nano hive. Also, they do not penalize the user in fitting or combat efficiency too much cuz their jus grenades, and you can get proto AV nades by jus specing grenader, there should prolly be a skill for AV nades, locus and flux grenades, seperatly

thats my input, feel free to correct or add on your thoughts but whatever you say, SAY WHY!! We want to give good reasoning behind our oppinions

how much less honning? and what only 2? why not restockable with hives and why only by depots?

Seriously leave the AV nades the **** alone
They absolutely need the the damage otherwise there would be very little to deter vehicle players and Ill use the murder taxi problem as an example, before people specced into better AV options you would see the trucks just going back and forth feeling completely safe but now that there is more danger to them out in the field they try to hit and run or get blown up

Same thing with tanks, how often in the past have you seen one park next to a CRU to rack up kills
With the grenades high spike damage it at the very least scares him off since now he knows there is danger


Now as for homing its really not as good as you think it is, more often than not for the homing to be effective, especially with a packed grenade since those have a much shorter homing range, your throw would already have to be dead on
On top of that theres a delay between throwing, homing activation, and the explosion so youll end up having grenades bounce off a vehicles hull before the homing actually kicks in and the thing explodes



Now I know the likely counter argument is "They arent a primary blah blah blah" and thats right they arent, even with the high spike damage you have limited ammo, limited range, and the scenario of 'People just throw down hives and spam them" only works if the vehicle driver is a complete dunce and is sitting stone still



So yeah, summary time
Viable deterrent option that is perfect as is since it carries enough limitations to counter the spike damage and the only ones that it will constantly be deadly to are bad drivers

Do you have any idea what its like being surrounded by infantry carrying weapons much better suited to killing you than what you have, while trying to get a line of sight on a vehicle that can kill you in fractions of a second while it takes the other infantry mere seconds, while wearing a suit thats most likely lightly armored and shielded since youll need damage mods, stamina boosters, and maybe a kincat just to keep up with your targets movements since it outpaces you breaking target locks or driving near a tiny bump in the ground that will block your swarm detonating the missiles harmlessly?

You think AV has it so easy why dont you try it sometime, and I dont mean hiding your ass behind the redline like you do with your tank

Every time i look a a vehicle thread i never cease to be amazed at the blatant lies and disinformation that HAV users are willing to propagate .

Its like trying to talk to a conspiracy nut

As we should all know by now, AV and vehicals are going to be changed in 1.5 and most likely 1.6 and will be changed completly. as evident in this post:


So, im going to go through the whole list of AV weapons in different threads and try to collect a non biased collection of feedback the Devs can use to change vehicals and AV. So remember, what we post here is what they may listen to. Lets start with AV nades. What are your guys thoughts?

Personally, i find these weapons too versitle and easy to use because you get 3 of them, they hone in your targets, do a massive amount of damage (av naders can bring high passive resist shield tanks down to half shields in 3 throws) and do not require line of sight to destroy vehicals (can throw over cover plus hone in, no acuracy required). They are also effective land mines, and one person can solo a tank with a nano hive. Also, they do not penalize the user in fitting or combat efficiency too much cuz their jus grenades, and you can get proto AV nades by jus specing grenader, there should prolly be a skill for AV nades, locus and flux grenades, seperatly

thats my input, feel free to correct or add on your thoughts but whatever you say, SAY WHY!! We want to give good reasoning behind our oppinions

all we have ever done on posts is give valid statistics and numbers from the game, its always infantry that are talking about how they cant one shot everything..

Mentioned- stamina.... funny vehicles don't have stamina and a lot of speed - see you were silly enough to stand still discussion.
Mentioned- nano-hives.... I have 4 - 3 can be active and go fast when I am supplying my team so chances are I am only going to get another 3 grenades maybe..... just how infinite is your tank ammo these days? And I am tethered to 7 meter range of my nano in order to get more ammo.

This thread is no where near non-biased all I see is AV grenade guys defending the one thing that is close to OK in this game against people that want the vehicles to rule the universe.... if you want that... why aren't you playing eve? This is dust.

AV grenades should not insta-disappear like vehicles running for the red-line they should stay on the ground for a minumum of 2 minutes, if that proves to be too long... 1:30.

Forgot to mention the team work it needs to take. Where was the logi repping your tank with a repair tool or the dropship overhead repairing you.... you drove off without them or didn't have them because your team of duvolles was hunting down everyone with any sort of AV, then when a person switches after getting killed to non-av to help the guys with AV, you are killed by the tank.

I take comfort in the fact that while ccp may read this, 95% chance they will do whatever the heck they want you or I being little influence on that decision.

AV nades are used as a primary weapon

In pub or PC matches it doesnt matter, see a tank throw your lot at it and its either dead or its half armor and backing off fast

They do way too much damage per nade, they are stronger than mines

I would cut AV nade damage by 50%, make them also explode on impact on the vehicle hull but remove the homing feature, this means that they have to be able to see the vehicle (put themselves at risk) be in range and also be able to hit the vehicle instead of lolhidingwhilelaunchingnadesfromsafespot

hrmmm....what was it called.....OH YEAH supply depots and proximity mines

oh yeah and about that last point, you bet your ass im gonna be pissed if i cant use a tank properly without gunners. i paid 2 mil isk for it. what did you pay for your av nades? like 20k?

If a tanker lets a AV grenadier get close enough to unleash enough grenades to put him down,,, it is his fault, pure and simple and that will never change. Too many tankers these days are not utilizing the small turrets, in fact they b**** and moan when other people get in their tank... Modern fools. I quit tanking but it sure as hell wasn't because of pesky AV grenades. Before I ever pulled out a tank I made sure I had two gunners and they in turn had small turret skills specced up. That is how it is supposed to work. Did we forget?

LAVs should fear mines and grenades more than anything, and it should always be that way. The reason they got the huge buffs was that nobody was skilling into them and CCP went AWWW, nobody is using them, but then naturally they overpowered to compensate. They are in the game for the future hopes of huge maps. Nothing else. Problem is LAVs came out before massive maps and huge 32 man teams. People have lost perspective regarding vehicles.

You can at all times whenever your playing have 2 people online who feel like sitting in a tank for hours on end shooting missle turrets because you cant fit anything else with your blaster build?! should give me their digits because they sound like some low-standard WP hoes.

Oh and had this happen a few games ago actually...had a guy in the LLAV repping me...was nice until he though he was saving me,charged in,slammed into my ass while I was backing up and killed the both of us...LLAV reppers yeah....

If a tanker lets a AV grenadier get close enough to unleash enough grenades to put him down,,, it is his fault, pure and simple and that will never change. Too many tankers these days are not utilizing the small turrets, in fact they b**** and moan when other people get in their tank... Modern fools. I quit tanking but it sure as hell wasn't because of pesky AV grenades. Before I ever pulled out a tank I made sure I had two gunners and they in turn had small turret skills specced up. That is how it is supposed to work. Did we forget?

LAVs should fear mines and grenades more than anything, and it should always be that way. The reason they got the huge buffs was that nobody was skilling into them and CCP went AWWW, nobody is using them, but then naturally they overpowered to compensate. They are in the game for the future hopes of huge maps. Nothing else. Problem is LAVs came out before massive maps and huge 32 man teams. People have lost perspective regarding vehicles.

They dont have to get close thats another problem

I can have gunners while they bunny hop around launching nades at me, mights aswell get out of the tank and kill them instead which is better than using the small turrets half the time

Either that or we cant shoot at them because joe nameth is launching nades from a safe spot and having the homing crutch doing all the work for them

No, I quit tanking because you cannot make a proper fit to accommodate the need for your gunners to have effective turrets. But this thread was about AV grenades so I didn't get into it. The way we USED to do it was three tankers get together, since they all had turret skills and tanks were expensive we'd take turns pulling out tanks and manning the small turrets. Uprising ruined tanks and now people as I say,,, have lost perspective on what vehicles are supposed to be doing and how they operate.

Same as my last post, tank fittings are broken, lack of good gunners and turrets to counter, and that is that. But you want to blame the AV grenades.... I was good at tanking, this thread has the wrong goal. Tanks are broken, not grenades.

AV nades are used as a primary weapon

In pub or PC matches it doesnt matter, see a tank throw your lot at it and its either dead or its half armor and backing off fast

They do way too much damage per nade, they are stronger than mines

I would cut AV nade damage by 50%, make them also explode on impact on the vehicle hull but remove the homing feature, this means that they have to be able to see the vehicle (put themselves at risk) be in range and also be able to hit the vehicle instead of lolhidingwhilelaunchingnadesfromsafespot

The ability to throw grenades farther than you can spit?

for the love of god Soozu just stop posting on the thread, yes tanks have issues, yes they need to be fixed,but this thread is about AV nades and is supposedly here in order to give the team working on vehicles/weaponry (praying for your sanity wolfman) an idea from the players perspective on how we'd like the nades to effect other vehicles, if you just want to say tanks are broken find one of the 60000000000000 thread crying about it.

And I'll say it again: Do you have any idea what it's like to watch half your armor melt away from one swarm volley?

Same as my last post, tank fittings are broken, lack of good gunners and turrets to counter, and that is that. But you want to blame the AV grenades.... I was good at tanking, this thread has the wrong goal. Tanks are broken, not grenades.

Wait a minute they are stonger than mines? I'll assume you mean proxies here but even so you are blantently wrong. The strength in proxy mines lies in being able to dump large numbers of them in likely tank/LAV pathways and letting them do their thing. Since they don't require any active use by the trooper dropping them they are far more powerful than an AV nade. The one caviate to this is that the mine dropping merc. must place them inteligently which is, I will admit, kind of a large hurdle for many players.

I would also like to point out that proxy mines can be staked on top of remote explosives. When the proxy mine goes off so does the remote causing 2000+ damage in a single blast. That is way more than you will ever get from 2 av nades.

Good topic, OP.

I would rework the ENTIRE Anti-Vehicle weapon system.

AV Grenades should simply cease to exist. That said, the Proximity Explosive should be removed to.

AV Grenades & current Proxis should be replaced by a Claymore-style proximity explosive that detonates upon detection of BOTH infantry AND vehicles.
The cone of detection for the claymore can be adjusted when it's being set, and they should be retrievable for repositioning.
2000 damage per explosive set. When they are set together correctly, it should be more than enough to blow those pesky LLAVS to kingdom come.
As it stands right now, LAVs can literally pass by Proxis just by turning a little. The proxi won't detonate unless the LAV comes within 2 or 3 meters, and that's horseshit.

The new directional explosive will have a detection CONE (not sphere) of 7- 10 meters. This way you only need 2 or 3 well placed claymores to deny an LAV access to a position, and they simply can't just drive around it.
Let the explosive have a nice large model too, because of how it functions, people can't miss it; so it can be used in vs. infantry situations, like preventing enemies from crossing a bridge.

Give it a 3-second setup and activation time/animation, to discourage people from using it recklessly in the middle of firefights.
(Example, walking right in front of a heavy and trying to drop the mine on him while he is shooting at you. The timer will prevent stupid "im a genius." bs like that.)

If you read this whole thread like you really should have, you would know whos ALT i am, even more reason to disregard what you have to say here.

months if not Years of nerf and buff tweaks....soooooooooo the fact we're getting a full rebalance in 1.5 for vehicles by the same team handling weaponry translates into months & years...if we can be constructive and not just ***** & cry MAYBE just MAYBE we can get something good out of 1.5, simply stating "CCP is going do whatever they want or Tanks are going to be broken forever QQQQQQQ." does not come anywhere near the term "constructive".

I'm done replying to you here Soozu, if you want to cry about tanks there is a thread in regards to them on the front page, go cry there.

I did read it and I see now,, you're role playing as different toons giving different perspectives and you're one of the QQ internet meme people,, yes I see very well.
My two cents in the thread is exactly that you think it is not. Constructive. A thread each for each type of vehicle and AV weapon misses the big picture for 1.5 and the parts fail to address the whole. I have reminded CCP what the original purpose was to vehicles, why there are three seats in a tank,,, and a LAV, and how and why that no longer works and as a result the whole system is wonky.

And I did tank but you're right, never in PC as uprising duffed the AV vs Vehicle balance and it is yet to be sorted.

Seriously leave the AV nades the **** alone
They absolutely need the the damage otherwise there would be very little to deter vehicle players and Ill use the murder taxi problem as an example, before people specced into better AV options you would see the trucks just going back and forth feeling completely safe but now that there is more danger to them out in the field they try to hit and run or get blown up

Same thing with tanks, how often in the past have you seen one park next to a CRU to rack up kills
With the grenades high spike damage it at the very least scares him off since now he knows there is danger


Now as for homing its really not as good as you think it is, more often than not for the homing to be effective, especially with a packed grenade since those have a much shorter homing range, your throw would already have to be dead on
On top of that theres a delay between throwing, homing activation, and the explosion so youll end up having grenades bounce off a vehicles hull before the homing actually kicks in and the thing explodes



Now I know the likely counter argument is "They arent a primary blah blah blah" and thats right they arent, even with the high spike damage you have limited ammo, limited range, and the scenario of 'People just throw down hives and spam them" only works if the vehicle driver is a complete dunce and is sitting stone still



So yeah, summary time
Viable deterrent option that is perfect as is since it carries enough limitations to counter the spike damage and the only ones that it will constantly be deadly to are bad drivers

Do you even have AV grenades to proto? Or has your poorly fit tank just been popped by them. Because it sounds like the latter. They are not the OP good weapon that you make them out to be. First, you have to get in close against a vehicle that can blast you apart in me seconds, before you even have a chance to throw. Second, they are crap against shield tanks. Third, a well for mardrugar will cut the damage done in half, with or even kicking in reps.

AV weapons are powerful for a reason : to keep vehicles in check. Right now, it only is keeping the poorly fitted and those who aren't paying attention at bay. Well fitted talks shrug them off, and logi LAVs barely notice.

So please. Do us a favor. Shut up, and stop posting.

Lurch...stop running ION cannons in pubs >.> if your paying 2mil for a gunnlogi with a blaster ..I can only imagine the hit you take defensively just to equip that ball buster let alone the isk price should you get pissed and bring out a second one.

Oh and if you getting killed by proxy mines...you should find a new role, if the beeping isn't enough to get you to change direction...maybe you should look at those odd looking bumps in the middle of the road.

You're so philosophical. please adorn me with more pearls of wisdom.

Do you even have AV grenades to proto? Or has your poorly fit tank just been popped by them. Because it sounds like the latter. They are not the OP good weapon that you make them out to be. First, you have to get in close against a vehicle that can blast you apart in me seconds, before you even have a chance to throw. Second, they are crap against shield tanks. Third, a well for mardrugar will cut the damage done in half, with or even kicking in reps.

AV weapons are powerful for a reason : to keep vehicles in check. Right now, it only is keeping the poorly fitted and those who aren't paying attention at bay. Well fitted talks shrug them off, and logi LAVs barely notice.

So please. Do us a favor. Shut up, and stop posting.

As we should all know by now, AV and vehicals are going to be changed in 1.5 and most likely 1.6 and will be changed completly. as evident in this post:


So, im going to go through the whole list of AV weapons in different threads and try to collect a non biased collection of feedback the Devs can use to change vehicals and AV. So remember, what we post here is what they may listen to. Lets start with AV nades. What are your guys thoughts?

Personally, i find these weapons too versitle and easy to use because you get 3 of them, they hone in your targets, do a massive amount of damage (av naders can bring high passive resist shield tanks down to half shields in 3 throws) and do not require line of sight to destroy vehicals (can throw over cover plus hone in, no acuracy required). They are also effective land mines, and one person can solo a tank with a nano hive. Also, they do not penalize the user in fitting or combat efficiency too much cuz their jus grenades, and you can get proto AV nades by jus specing grenader, there should prolly be a skill for AV nades, locus and flux grenades, seperatly

thats my input, feel free to correct or add on your thoughts but whatever you say, SAY WHY!! We want to give good reasoning behind our oppinions

To end all these debates...they should not NERF AV, they should have made seperate skill trees for each type of grenade. Being able to specialize in grenade and have all thre different types available at the various stages was somewhat lazy. If you want av nades...skill into it..if you want flux..skill into it..etc

its called the swarm launchers and forges, us tankers sacrifice our ability to fight outside of the vehicle in order to pilot a tank, you should sacrifice your ability to fight infantry if you want to kill us.. fair is fair, the av grenade allows you to be effective in both equally which is a major problem, "if you specialize in everything, youl be good at nothing", "to gain something, something else must be sacrifice"..

av grenades are the most OP av weapon in the game, your just a scrub if you think otherwise & yes im speaking the truth, all you ******* do with those tin cans is hide behind cover and throw them straight up and they take out over half of our shields and armor within 5 seconds.... only the swarms and forges should do that, not a ******* tiny ass grenade..

how much less honning? and what only 2? why not restockable with hives and why only by depots?

Do you even have AV grenades to proto? Or has your poorly fit tank just been popped by them. Because it sounds like the latter. They are not the OP good weapon that you make them out to be. First, you have to get in close against a vehicle that can blast you apart in me seconds, before you even have a chance to throw. Second, they are crap against shield tanks. Third, a well for mardrugar will cut the damage done in half, with or even kicking in reps.

AV weapons are powerful for a reason : to keep vehicles in check. Right now, it only is keeping the poorly fitted and those who aren't paying attention at bay. Well fitted talks shrug them off, and logi LAVs barely notice.

So please. Do us a favor. Shut up, and stop posting.

Woe, there is alot of infaintry that say AV grenades should be this powerfull. Wich is cool, this is jus a thread to collect our thoughts on the situation.

The tankers on this thread are trying to make the point that AV grenades are currently strong enough to be a primary weapon. Id like to point out some good points for both sides here

Vehicals
- AV nades are currently strong enough to be used as a primary means of AV per person using them. Vehicle user believe that doing 2500 damage every couple seconds should be done by a proper AV weapon, such as forges and swarms.

-Vehicle users believe AV nades should only be a supplement to AV, doing minor damage compared to the true AV weapons. A cannon or swarm of missiles should be very capable on destroying vehicles, but a grenade is well, a grenade.

- AV grenades can be spamed quiet quickly in a nanohive. Perhaps there should be a slower replenishment rate.



Infainty

QQ



Sorry, but... i dont see any good points made by infantry players... not trying to be sarcastic. Im seeing no justifications to how its balanced, just ppl saying tankers are simply wrong

You know I forgot to ask but what role do you main? and what is your own opinion on whether AV nades need the power to be a deterrent or not?

NNOOOO that's like saying uwish ammo only comes from supply depot]

What would be really neat is if AV nades did less damage (like 30% of the damage they do now) but cause some other type of anti vehicle effect.

Something like:

• Reducing the effect of modules?
• Reducing the acceleration and top speed?
• Reduce turret rotation speed?
• Increase heat buildup on turrets?
• Reduce base resistance to damage?

Something that would partially disable a tank so that AV weapons are more effective. This promotes teamwork > spam and SP.

AV nades and AV weapons should compliment, instead of compete or replace, each other.

a magnetic remote explosive variant would be sweet though, and would make a much better infantry AV weapon.

All I can say Maple in all honesty... I threw 4 proto av grenades into your tank during that PC match and it did NOTHING as far as damage.... so I am not understanding what is wanted to be done with the AV nades.

I believe I still have that match recorded on my hard drive, I could be wrong.. I got my ass tore up, but the evidence of the av nade dmg is very visible when I say ...little damage was done.

LOL.....you hit a Shield Tank w/ Proto AV Nades & did "Nothing"??? Sir.....what is your idea of "Nothing" exactly??? I'm honestly curious.....b/c even my Hacked Exos do "Something"....

As we should all know by now, AV and vehicals are going to be changed in 1.5 and most likely 1.6 and will be changed completly. as evident in this post:


So, im going to go through the whole list of AV weapons in different threads and try to collect a non biased collection of feedback the Devs can use to change vehicals and AV. So remember, what we post here is what they may listen to. Lets start with AV nades. What are your guys thoughts?

Personally, i find these weapons too versitle and easy to use because you get 3 of them, they hone in your targets, do a massive amount of damage (av naders can bring high passive resist shield tanks down to half shields in 3 throws) and do not require line of sight to destroy vehicals (can throw over cover plus hone in, no acuracy required). They are also effective land mines, and one person can solo a tank with a nano hive. Also, they do not penalize the user in fitting or combat efficiency too much cuz their jus grenades, and you can get proto AV nades by jus specing grenader, there should prolly be a skill for AV nades, locus and flux grenades, seperatly

thats my input, feel free to correct or add on your thoughts but whatever you say, SAY WHY!! We want to give good reasoning behind our oppinions

if MAPLE WANTS TO BE HONEST ABOUT THE SITUATION...ASK HIM. He knows exactly when I did it and how I did it, I was right in front of him.


His tank is a monster.... you hit his tank with proto nades and see if your CLAIMS hold to be true.


normal tanks... 4 proto av nades good bye.....

Maples would prob take 8 or 9

It takes 4-5 Rail Shots to KO his Shield Tank Build. I would not need to ask him b/c I was once a Shield Tanker & am fully aware of the Specs from his PoV. On the other hand.....you provided significantly Biased/Vague "Data", while at the same time providing no Data at all..... Let me rephrase the Query..... When you tossed 3 Proto AV Grenades what was the resulting Shield HP Bar??? If you say "Full" then you are either Lying, an Idiot, or Blind. I say this b/c I assure you that simply based off of the Active & Passive Repping (Boosting) Capabilities vs the DPS In....the Shield HP Bar would be far from "Full". And you are claiming 4 Proto AV Grenades???

May I also note that you were in a PC Match AKA LAG Variable Hell??? I have had such happenings in a PUB Match where I would Direct Rail a Target (Normally Installations & other Tanks) for No Damage, with & without Hit Markers, & my Framerate was Stable..... Maybe this is what you experienced??? I assure you it has nothing to do with a Tank being a "Monster" b/c as we are now we may as well be Whack-A-Moles playing Peek-A-Boo

Im calling BS on this ^^^^^^ over exaggerated with a dash of emo sprinkled on top.

I have no reason to lie... is that going to get me bonus points? OOOHHHHH Im talking about av nades and you are talking world of tanks with rail shots.....

You act as if PC is not a VIABLE source....than I want to see no more BS threads about the leaders and kings of PC

Or may I add "pub" stomping in tanks.. cause lord knows there is only one place for "proto" gear and that is the place that does not count "PC".... people have so many double standards at times....

Oh no really half of your HP in 5 whole seconds? Now tell me again how many fractions of a second it takes for a tank to kill infantry
And last I checked you dont spawn in already sitting inside your tin can and you sacrifice absolutely nothing while driving a tank

"Waaah we cant fight outside our tanks"
You have free dropsuits dont you and havent I seen you telling new people to just squad up and run with a group to be effective if you only have low level gear? ******* hypocrite, cry some more

**** you infantry *****, I wasn't crying that we sacrifice ****, im stating facts something that your unfamiliar with.. the thing is you expect to kill vehicles off and kill infantry off, you have no skill if you do that... av grenades are the worst av weapon in the game and your getting defensive because you don't want to need skill to kill us, you lazy little *****

You know thats exactly it, Im upset because it takes no skill to kill you
Avoiding the fire of something that can kill me in a fraction of a second, no skill
Sneaking up on that enemy to use a weapon with a limited range, no skill
Defeating that enemy using a weapon with very limited ammo and that is weak against the enemies first layer of defense while being well within that enemies kill zone, no skill
Mocking a mental deficient (you) when he gets upset his shiny little toy gets broken, absolutely zero skill

And all that upsets me

There are no Proto Tanks....so...."Lie" seems to be your "Go-To", duly noted I've been a Relevant factor in PC during the time I participated.....why aren't you???

They need to be a weapon versus cars, but only a deterrant versus tanks.

They need to be a weapon versus cars, but only a deterrant versus tanks.

It takes lots of skill sneaking up on a one hit kill tank with av nades and destroying it...where is your infantry at thats supposed to protect you from av? I remember tank SQUADS that workerd to prevent av attacks...now the majority of players "rambo" it with their tanks and deserve to be destroyed.

Would almost be a good statement, if it was worth a **** in the games current state. I can run with a squad of people to protect, but a wyiywuiwyuiwuwyomi swarmer takes no time to lock on, and you don't know half the time it's been shot. Forge guns are turning into a nightmare for infantry also. Tank squads mean **** when the guy has a high rise position with swarmers, sat in a hive nest, spamming swarms across map. When I go to snipe em down, the new render a distance changes have turned nanohives into a blinding light when theres enough in one area, completely blocking sight.

AV nades need skill. NO
Swarmers. NO(just timing or proto)
Forge guns: Not any more

So tanks now have to be careful around any structure, naders behind walls, or up above you, forge guns, doesn't matter where they are anymore, and invisible swarmers. So either the infantry on this game sucks, or you completely misunderstand how easy all forms of AV is atm. But cant go out in the wide open for all the same reasons plus rail tanks, instalations.

Edit, I will concede that prox mines need a boost, I just role over 6 of em, repping no problem.

If investing 16 million into a tank is not being on a proto level... being blind and dumb may be your excuse.

They need to be a weapon versus cars, but only a deterrant versus tanks.

As we should all know by now, AV and vehicals are going to be changed in 1.5 and most likely 1.6 and will be changed completly. as evident in this post:


So, im going to go through the whole list of AV weapons in different threads and try to collect a non biased collection of feedback the Devs can use to change vehicals and AV. So remember, what we post here is what they may listen to. Lets start with AV nades. What are your guys thoughts?

Personally, i find these weapons too versitle and easy to use because you get 3 of them, they hone in your targets, do a massive amount of damage (av naders can bring high passive resist shield tanks down to half shields in 3 throws) and do not require line of sight to destroy vehicals (can throw over cover plus hone in, no acuracy required). They are also effective land mines, and one person can solo a tank with a nano hive. Also, they do not penalize the user in fitting or combat efficiency too much cuz their jus grenades, and you can get proto AV nades by jus specing grenader, there should prolly be a skill for AV nades, locus and flux grenades, seperatly

thats my input, feel free to correct or add on your thoughts but whatever you say, SAY WHY!! We want to give good reasoning behind our oppinions

AV nades should be a counter to LAVS and therefore the homing ability makes sense (otherwiese you wouldn't hit LAVs) but what works fine for the fast LAVs makes them somewhat OP aganist tanks. I think they should get a damage Boost against LAVs and a penalty gainst HAVS for example 130% damage against LAVs and 70% Damage against HAVs and then you could lower the damage a bit (maybe 10 or 15%). BTW numbers are rather random just to make the point clear

That way they would be quite usefull againt LAVs but nearly useless against Tanks unless the Tank gets surrounded by Infantry on Nanohives throwing AV nades but honestly if thats happened it's the fault of the Tankdriver not the AV nade...

Again.....the Ignoramus is Deflecting. "Blind and Dumb" seem to be quite amply describing Yourself as you miss the Fact that the only PRO our Vehicles have available to us are Turrets. Reps/Boosters, Extenders/Hardeners, all are simply Variants. One may argue the 3rd of each grants PRO Stats, but there is no Meta Indication of it being PRO. You are so Irrelevant & should feel bad about being so Aggressively Ignorant. I do suppose you were appropriately Named though..... Quite Synonymous with LowBudgetTarget, and rightfully advertising yourself as a Non-Factor. Congratulations on being both Forum Dumb & Ingame Ret**ded (Leave off the AR for Savings)

So when are vehicles getting Limited ammo, like 6-8 in the main gun, with 5 reloads in the trunk ? and 75-100 rounds in the secondary guns each with 2 reloads ?

As it is now, tanks are just running on Duracell i take it, even the missile ones convert Missiles out of thin Air...

So you want us to carry less Nades, while you guys keep Unlimited Ammo cheat codes in those vehicles ....makes sense ....you guys could get like extra vehicle skills to up the ammo amount, right ?

I'm 100% convinced that tankers from previous builds are incapable of adjusting to what the game has given them.

I don't hear 1/10th of the complaints from tankers that know nothing of the God Mode tanks of old.

I see tanks all the time that harass and avoid proto AV. They do their job. They get people out of infantry fits and into AV fits. I see guys with names I've never heard of doing this.

I see guys with tanker names that are well known trying to insert themselves into the middle of CQC engagements and getting blown up.

I don't think tanks are in a good place, I think they need some work, but all the drama from tanker vets is getting old. The noobs seem to be doing well.

you think tanking takes no skill? HAHAHAHA

we have to worry about 10+ things that can kill us every match if we are not careful on top of wondering if an enemy tank is going to be called down.... along with trying to be profitable which only works if you have a **** fit or you get all the kills in the game.' guess what, its a ******* tank that weighs probably several tons, its NOT a damn dropsuit, tanks aren't tanks in this game because of people like you, the LAVs are the real tanks in this game, I see more of them every game I play and they don't get destroyed as often as tanks do.. we also have to make split second decisions that always end up with us either dying or living we also have to know the maps inside and out for escape routs in case we come across proto av in out standard tanks.

all you do is whine that you cant solo us if we are good and want us to sit down and just let you hit us with whatever the **** you have and let you destroy us and have us bend over for you because your so damn spoiled from games where vehicles are ****..

you want to give me some facts that prove I want god mode? quote anything iv ever said in the forums in the past 2 months that specifically says I want my tank to be unkillable by av.. go ahead, try it, you wnt find anything to support yourself, I have been presenting facts as best as I can all youv been doing is trolling and brining up emotion based arguments..

Show me where I said tanking takes no skill
Better yet find all the instances of me saying that tankers that constantly get blown up are the ones that have no skill and need to improve cause theres a lot of that

maybe New Eden isnt the place for me and farmville would be more my speed since im an idiot scrub that thinks this game should be like call of duty speed

You know thats exactly it, Im upset because it takes no skill to kill you
Avoiding the fire of something that can kill me in a fraction of a second, no skill
Sneaking up on that enemy to use a weapon with a limited range, no skill
Defeating that enemy using a weapon with very limited ammo and that is weak against the enemies first layer of defense while being well within that enemies kill zone, no skill
Mocking a mental deficient (you) when he gets upset his shiny little toy gets broken, absolutely zero skill

And all that upsets me

Show me where I said tanking takes no skill
Better yet find all the instances of me saying that tankers that constantly get blown up are the ones that have no skill and need to improve cause theres a lot of that

So you have to worry about 10+ things huh
Lets see, Forges, Swarms, AV nades, LAVS, HAVS, and Dropships
I count six things you have to worry about since lets face it the plasma cannon is a joke for AV purposes, thats hardly ten or more things
Meanwhile I have to worry about that list minus swarms and av nades plus every other weapon in the game and you dont see me making threads how everything that kills me should be nerfed

Again show me where I whined that I cant solo you, and tell me how you whining about getting blown up in this thread doesnt make you a hypocrite

As for the last thing two months of you QQing about getting blown up and demanding that it takes squads of people to blow you up isnt enough proof? Hell Im sure youve done it in this thread already



TLDR You have no skills as a pilot and failed to adapt now that the crutch was taken away, maybe New Eden isnt the place for you and farmville would be more your speed

iv always said that it should be minimum of 2 people to kill me, that's fair and you get your kill and I don't feel like you cheated at this game.. everyone wins with that, its some of the other drivers that are saying it should take an entire squad to kill them, not me.. get your facts straight, 2 people DO NOT MAKE UP AN ENTIRE SQUAD, 6 PEOPLE MAKE UP AN ENTIRE SQUAD

iv always said that it should be minimum of 2 people to kill me, that's fair and you get your kill and I don't feel like you cheated at this game.. everyone wins with that, its some of the other drivers that are saying it should take an entire squad to kill them, not me.. get your facts straight, 2 people DO NOT MAKE UP AN ENTIRE SQUAD, 6 PEOPLE MAKE UP AN ENTIRE SQUAD

A separate skill for flux, AV, and locust grenades?!?!?!?! Your nucking futz. That's just my input.

On a side note, I do agree that AV grenades do need to be looked at. But a separate skill for each type, come on now Core.
then you would have to make a separate skill for every different type or weapon I.e. tactical AR, burst AR, breach AR and all of the different types of weapon platforms that we already have............................NO THANKS.

I would just say look at the damage output and the nanohive+AV grenade problems.

Why should it take a minimum of two people to kill you?

So your HAV qualifies as a person now?

lol.

wtf? HAVs are vehicles, my character is a person you dipshit

So why then is it not ok for someone to solo your HAV fuckface?

what is your class, and your classes rival? please answer so I can give my answer dipshit

I am an Infantry Minmatar Logi (packing three types of 'hives and Packed AV), everything is my rival.

I can be solo'd by anything fuckface.

A separate skill for flux, AV, and locust grenades?!?!?!?! Your nucking futz. That's just my input.

On a side note, I do agree that AV grenades do need to be looked at. But a separate skill for each type, come on now Core.
then you would have to make a separate skill for every different type or weapon I.e. tactical AR, burst AR, breach AR and all of the different types of weapon platforms that we already have............................NO THANKS.

I would just say look at the damage output and the nanohive+AV grenade problems.

so because you can be soloed by infantry, you believe I should be forced down to your level and beaten by something less than 1/3 the size of the vehicle so you can feel better? ha, dipshit whiner.

then why have vehicles to spec into at all? if all you want to do is have us nerfed to where vehicles are nothing but useless data using up valuable space, then why do you pay this game, you do know there are games that vehicles are **** in right? so you don't have to ruin this game, just go to those ****** games.


HAVs are near uselessness, we die to quickly because we cannon match your *** ass with the ***** nades and no skill swarms, and you expect us to bend over for you and let you kills us without effort? **** NO

They already did this..... Combat Rifle, Rail Rifle, Assault Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, dare I say.....Lazer Rifle??? How about Scrambler Pistol & Flaylock Pistol??? You simply want to avoid a Fair-Play SP Sink so you can have the Best-of-ALL-Worlds.....
Remember.....just in AV Nades you have Basic, Packed, & w/e the Farther Tossing one is (Sooooo unused...) so ya....you are now wearing an OP Duncecap

Thats not true at all.

They have no intention of removing the tactical, burst, assault, or breach variants from any tree, and they are also planning on making sure each race has all 4 variants eventually.

So they aren't 'splitting' anything.

I know exactly what you meant by this, pathetic

Thats not true at all.

They have no intention of removing the tactical, burst, assault, or breach variants from any tree, and they are also planning on making sure each race has all 4 variants eventually.

So they aren't 'splitting' anything.

See??? My Statement is further Validated..... You want Locus??? Spec it. AV Nade??? Spec it. Flexibility w/o Killing Power (Aside from Glitch)??? Spec it. If this is not happening then ALL Racial Weapon Variants should be in a Single Unlock (Rifles, Snipers, SMGs, etc.) And before someone claims "BIAS" I believe Hybrid Turrets fall under this Category, although we Vehicles are already an SP/ISK Sink.........

Seriously leave the AV nades the **** alone
They absolutely need the the damage otherwise there would be very little to deter vehicle players and Ill use the murder taxi problem as an example, before people specced into better AV options you would see the trucks just going back and forth feeling completely safe but now that there is more danger to them out in the field they try to hit and run or get blown up

Same thing with tanks, how often in the past have you seen one park next to a CRU to rack up kills
With the grenades high spike damage it at the very least scares him off since now he knows there is danger


Now as for homing its really not as good as you think it is, more often than not for the homing to be effective, especially with a packed grenade since those have a much shorter homing range, your throw would already have to be dead on
On top of that theres a delay between throwing, homing activation, and the explosion so youll end up having grenades bounce off a vehicles hull before the homing actually kicks in and the thing explodes



Now I know the likely counter argument is "They arent a primary blah blah blah" and thats right they arent, even with the high spike damage you have limited ammo, limited range, and the scenario of 'People just throw down hives and spam them" only works if the vehicle driver is a complete dunce and is sitting stone still



So yeah, summary time
Viable deterrent option that is perfect as is since it carries enough limitations to counter the spike damage and the only ones that it will constantly be deadly to are bad drivers

He wont be happy until his little toy is indestructible, every post Ive seen of his relating to AV and vehicle balance is just crying for them to be nerfed into uselessness

As we should all know by now, AV and vehicals are going to be changed in 1.5 and most likely 1.6 and will be changed completly. as evident in this post:


So, im going to go through the whole list of AV weapons in different threads and try to collect a non biased collection of feedback the Devs can use to change vehicals and AV. So remember, what we post here is what they may listen to. Lets start with AV nades. What are your guys thoughts?

Personally, i find these weapons too versitle and easy to use because you get 3 of them, they hone in your targets, do a massive amount of damage (av naders can bring high passive resist shield tanks down to half shields in 3 throws) and do not require line of sight to destroy vehicals (can throw over cover plus hone in, no acuracy required). They are also effective land mines, and one person can solo a tank with a nano hive. Also, they do not penalize the user in fitting or combat efficiency too much cuz their jus grenades, and you can get proto AV nades by jus specing grenader, there should prolly be a skill for AV nades, locus and flux grenades, seperatly

thats my input, feel free to correct or add on your thoughts but whatever you say, SAY WHY!! We want to give good reasoning behind our oppinions

I have no sympathy for tank drivers. against a top end of the line full skilled properly fitted tank the AV grenades are not that effective, even against armor tanked ones, atleast not when the driver isnt in rambo tunnelvision mode but plays with his brain activated. I have meet several (armor tanked ones too) tanks where I couldnt blow the tank up solo with my proto swarms or AV grenades and only forced the driver to reposition himself.

the actual truth is, tanks can be very durable for a limited amount of time and if you simply do not overextend when your mods are on cooldown you are going to be fine. and if the tank driver sits still without even bothering to move and let a squad sitting on nanohives spam AV nades on him then he obviously deserves to explode.

the only thing I would change is => AV grenades should be restored a bit slower on hives and maybe carry a maximum of 2 but the damage is fine as it is. if a squad manages to spam all their proto nades on single tank at once it should blow up. tanks are meant to be zoning tools and not undestructible killing machines.

What about a distinction between anti LAV grenades and standard AV nades?

Personally I only use AV cus I'm fed up of getting run down by cheap LAV's (still happens) but now the tracking is less responsive (to the point it sometimes doesn't work even is it damn near lands in the drivers lap -_- ) perhaps a little buff to sleek grenades tracking? It won't threaten proper tanks but help against the murder taxies.

When collision is fixed to the point running ppl over takes skill then I'll very gladly switch to flux

Dust 514 : The Importance Of AV Grenades

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laoXHCsk3hw

It takes lots of skill sneaking up on a one hit kill tank with av nades and destroying it...where is your infantry at thats supposed to protect you from av? I remember tank SQUADS that workerd to prevent av attacks...now the majority of players "rambo" it with their tanks and deserve to be destroyed.

Not much less damage, but being able to carry only 2 instead of 3 and less homing would help.

EDIT: I also wish grenades weren't restockable by nanohives and only came back at supply depots.

I don't think AV grenades are too overpowered, unless you have some high ground you generally have to expose yourself to throw them whereas any other AV you can use from almost any distance, though I guess it doesn't make too much sense for them to do as much damage as a forge gun lol. Think the most I would do is have the damage dropped by about 20-25%, could still be used the same way but it would give most vehicles a little more time to activate mods and gtfo.

the thing about lavs is that the turret gunner can be shot out of them...and thats just one prob of many...

As we should all know by now, AV and vehicals are going to be changed in 1.5 and most likely 1.6 and will be changed completly. as evident in this post:


So, im going to go through the whole list of AV weapons in different threads and try to collect a non biased collection of feedback the Devs can use to change vehicles and AV. So remember, what we post here is what they may listen to. Lets start with AV nades. What are your guys thoughts?

Personally, i find these weapons too versatile and easy to use because you get 3 of them, they hone in your targets, do a massive amount of damage (av naders can bring high passive resist shield tanks down to half shields in 3 throws) and do not require line of sight to destroy vehicles (can throw over cover plus hone in, no accuracy required). They are also effective land mines, and one person can solo a tank with a nano hive. Also, they do not penalize the user in fitting or combat efficiency too much cuz their jus grenades, and you can get proto AV nades by just specing grenadier, there should probably be a skill for AV nades, locus and flux grenades, separately

that's my input, feel free to correct or add on your thoughts but whatever you say, SAY WHY!! We want to give good reasoning behind our opinions

AV grenades should primarily be for dealing with LAV's. Right now, specializing into AV seems redundant when anyone can do just as well with AV grenades. Meanwhile, HAV's are suffering because they're legitimately afraid both of being too close to infantry and of being out in the open. If there's a threat to getting close to infantry, it should be a fear that there could be an AV somewhere in the mix that will fire missiles up your tailpipes from 10m away, not that a bunch of assaults will actually be able to drop you.

The problem I have with telling tankers complaining about AV, "you're rock, I'm paper," is that scissors can also beat rock because of these things. And whereas my militia medic fit has taken out AV players who were trying to destroy friendly tanks, I don't have that kind of scissors-on-paper option with an assault carrying AV grenades.

If AV grenades are weakened against HAV's, or if they require some real specialization not just in SP but in fitting, then we can talk about a more even footing with forges and swarms in terms of damage. Until then, they're putting both vehicles and dedicated anti-vehicle infantry out of a job.

I would like to see AV 'nades homing ability end as soon as they hit the ground, this would take away the ability to make a pile of them in the road ahead of a tank and when he rolls up he gets hit by 6 or 7 at once.

And also i think militia swarms need to be knocked back to either 2 or 3 rockets per shot.

As we should all know by now, AV and vehicals are going to be changed in 1.5 and most likely 1.6 and will be changed completly. as evident in this post:


So, im going to go through the whole list of AV weapons in different threads and try to collect a non biased collection of feedback the Devs can use to change vehicals and AV. So remember, what we post here is what they may listen to. Lets start with AV nades. What are your guys thoughts?

Personally, i find these weapons too versitle and easy to use because you get 3 of them, they hone in your targets, do a massive amount of damage (av naders can bring high passive resist shield tanks down to half shields in 3 throws) and do not require line of sight to destroy vehicals (can throw over cover plus hone in, no acuracy required). They are also effective land mines, and one person can solo a tank with a nano hive. Also, they do not penalize the user in fitting or combat efficiency too much cuz their jus grenades, and you can get proto AV nades by jus specing grenader, there should prolly be a skill for AV nades, locus and flux grenades, seperatly

thats my input, feel free to correct or add on your thoughts but whatever you say, SAY WHY!! We want to give good reasoning behind our oppinions