Hey guys.

Cool thread, full of good ideas!

We agree that it would be better to be able to restrict access to PC battles, and are currently discussing how we would implement that.

What we are discussing is doing this in phases, i.e. start with giving CEO's and directors the ability to kick from matches, set roles on members that you want participating in PC matches, to forming up into larger teams prior to the PC match taking place. We will add this to the roadmap and share more details in few weeks time for feedback and discussion.

I normally don't wall of text too much unless its a really touchy subject.

This is a very touchy subject.

por favor.

I wasn't implying your OP lol

I'm talking about people who'll come in here talking about EVE, and how great it is, and how DUST people should HTFU and QQ less, bla bla bla.

People should make their suggestions to the point. Have something more to add, then feel free, but add a TL;DR version below your suggestion...por favor.

I know its New Eden and all but right now you guys don't have to tools and the sorts to handle the entire thing easily before, during and after it happens.

Some tools to alleviate the issues to allow 'quick footed' players to minimize damage while 'wise and cautious' can avoid being victims entirely while 'fast and reckless' will continue to be plagued by it.

Right now it doesn't matter which of the three above you are, you can be a victim.

Ironwolf, both of your examples suck you know.

In example 2 you argue that once a player have been giving the ability to kick people from the match it's a problem that he can actually make use of that to sabotage the match? Like really? The corp shouldn't have given him the ability then. I don't see how this is a problem.

How would the corp know? There is no logging and its the director's word against everyone else.

Send the CEO a notification when one of his squad leaders picks up a member, allowing the CEO to confirm or deny the member entry into the battle? This way, there are checks and balances between spies and CEOs. A spy could get a bunch of convincing alts together and do his thing. Or, his plan could be foiled because CEO A realizes that he doesn't recognize three people getting invites. Similarly, if the CEO says "This player has the green light", then anything that happens to him is his fault

That's how I'd do it anyway

Short disclaimer before going off into the sunset on fixing the issue.

I'll admit it is far too easy and there needs to be some 'challenge' added for it to happen. Over time though corps will eventually burn all the alts out of the corp so this problem might die down or be reasonably managed within the coming weeks well before CCP pushes out a Sony patch to fix it.

/kick or /votekick option would result in well... lets say far more drama and actual 'real grief' than Awoxing itself.

Example 1 of why kick is bad.
Timmy wanted to enjoy PC for the first time, he is rather fresh and nobody else was available to help fight at the minute the battle started. Timmy we come to find out is far better than originally though far better than the guy he is filling in for. Johnny logs on a minute late to the fight and see that Timmy took his spot. Johnny /kicks Timmy right in the middle of a what would have been a game winning hack and costs the corporation the planet. Johnny would have got fired but he's the CEO and blames Timmy for the loss and kicks him from the corp for something not his fault.

Example 2 of why kick is bad.
Floyd is a spy, he got the role to kick people from a corp match. The corp all goes into a battle and Floyd being very sneaky invites his not so friendly friends and makes them squad leader, and then kicks everyone that isn't his friends out. End Result nobody suspects Floyd because Floyd isn't in the fight and there is not a single friendly on the field. The one sided match does into a grand Mario Kart Race.

TL:DR
Barring the /kick option. What other 'out of the box' solutions would you have? Role? Other Mechanics? Corp Tools? Flagging?

Anyways the floor is yours guys and gals; have at it.

I know its New Eden and all but right now you guys don't have to tools and the sorts to handle the entire thing easily before, during and after it happens.

Some tools to alleviate the issues to allow 'quick footed' players to minimize damage while 'wise and cautious' can avoid being victims entirely while 'fast and reckless' will continue to be plagued by it.

Right now it doesn't matter which of the three above you are, you can be a victim.

I wasn't implying your OP lol

I'm talking about people who'll come in here talking about EVE, and how great it is, and how DUST people should HTFU and QQ less, bla bla bla.

People should make their suggestions to the point. Have something more to add, then feel free, but add a TL;DR version below your suggestion...por favor.

No.

CRM is owned by a corp with a CEO
Clones are owned by a corp with a CEO
District that holds the Clones and CRM is owned by a corp with a CEO

If a CEO of a corp cant control what minds can or cannot enter his clones and CRMs in his district then the whole concept of owning a district is friggin idiotic.

If CCP wants infiltration into the game then they can damn well make game play out of...not some bullsh*t broken game mechanic that crap players like you can exploit.

Sorry Tin Pup no one in the community likes your version of "Meta". Either tell CCP what the community has told you over and over and over again or step down from the council.

Ironwolf, both of your examples suck you know.

In example 1 it's sad for Timmy, but in that case he should find a better corp for him since that CEO (or director or whoever that kicked him) is just dumb. If a corp doesn't have a CEO and directors that can manage the kick function properly they don't deserve to be in charge of anything. I don't see how this is a problem.

In example 2 you argue that once a player have been giving the ability to kick people from the match it's a problem that he can actually make use of that to sabotage the match? Like really? The corp shouldn't have given him the ability then. I don't see how this is a problem.

Then implement ways so you know who's the one doing the kicking.

Like a notification that says "You have been kicked from the match by Floyd".

Example one. If the CEO can't properly secure the corporation then you should find a better corp or a box of tissues.

Example two. See example one.

Example zero: CCP is already planning fixes.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=655927#post655927
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=833365#post833365

Again TL;DR, maybe that is the reason everyone is so mad about not having security in place. Try reading sometimes, it is amazing what you can learn if you spend more than one second skimming over text. Eve players are saying htfu because they have lived it, warned us about it and now they are laughing at all the crying threads because they knew it would happen just like the rest of us did.

The mechanic that needs to be added is responsibility for the failure of management to protect assets and control their members. So yes, htfu and put security first and crying second. That's how you solve this problem, not by adding more mechanics to complain about later. The first time the kick function is used to screw over a corp it will be OP and you'll be here crying how it is unfair, new players can't do it, vets are scrubs and how anyone who plays the game differently than you is bad. Just because you play the game one certain way doesn't mean we should.

TL;DR. Read more and bad things probably will not happen as often. READ MORE and TL;DR less.

Go back to cod? I hear there is very little depth in that game.

There are fixes but there are also discussion of those fixes. This is your guy's chance to try and change something.

Example zero: CCP is already planning fixes.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=655927#post655927
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=833365#post833365

Yes and the discussion has been to remove you from council along with Jenza and some other betamax idiot as well as closing the broken game mechanic that was meant to make it easy to squad up for Pub matches....all of this can be found in multiple threads.

This is not about what you want to discuss or want.

You can man up and do your job or better yet resign.

Only because of butthurt and nothing else. Corps got what they deserved by allowing anyone in, if you didn't know it would happen then you should have played more attention. It's bad management not broken mechanics.

.

you made no effort to put feedback or suggestions in your post.

You said 'crying' x3, 'TL;DR' x3, 'htfu' x2, and made 0 contribution. Well done.

i find it funny you mention security, when atm ceo's and directors have no tools in place to help.

I can see how a CEO in charge of of thousands of people, and can't choose who plays in PC as being ok right?

How about adding something constructive and not spam "HTFU" all over the forum like you've been doing. Kthxbai

CCP seems to disagree.

Never played the game more then an hour or two at a friends house Try again.

Also you are bad at this game and you should feel bad and should quit playing it.

You should only be allowed to kick players if the player doing the kicking is in the game....also if the spy reaches that status... Applaus to him.

That also solves problem 1 where the CEO kicks someone from outside game.

Holding corp like the rest of the responsible CEOs. Simple enough? Tools are there you failed to use the because of ignorance of the system or laziness.

If you got a problem with that then I cannot help you at all.

If they can join then what does kicking do? They can just rejoin as soon as they get out thus causing the one kicking the awoxers out to miss the battle. Mission accomplished.

Not really. Awoxers are taking the place of a premade squad that was suppose to be in the battle. But they can't get in cuz of the awoxers.

Director sees awoxers in the warbarge.... And tells the squad that didnt get in to join as soon as he kicks the awoxers out of battle.

Simple!

Not really. Awoxers are taking the place of a premade squad that was suppose to be in the battle. But they can't get in cuz of the awoxers.

Director sees awoxers in the warbarge.... And tells the squad that didnt get in to join as soon as he kicks the awoxers out of battle.

Simple!

Only because of butthurt and nothing else. Corps got what they deserved by allowing anyone in, if you didn't know it would happen then you should have played more attention. It's bad management not broken mechanics.

Yeah, it's really that simple.

In fact, you could even kick him from the corp and then kick him from the match. That way he can't join back in even if he's fast.

'Preventing' the awox is a far more important step than 'stopping' the awox IMO. Proper role management IS coming. That fix WILL happen, but not any time in the immediate future. They need to wait for a major expansion for that. Like I said above : right now what the community should focus on is something that will make things better in the meantime without making things worse elsewhere.

People are getting too caught up on kicking as a 'solution'.

The Long term, 'Best' Fix is proper roles to manage who can join PC, and Toggles for if a corp wants to allow 'ringers' in their matches or not. (Ringing honestly needs it's own contract marketplace IMO, but that is another issue/feature for later)


The only reason CCP is discussing kicking is because it's something they can implement fairly quickly. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want ANOTHER half-assed, ill thought and disruptive mechanic put into the game to 'fix' a problem that only exists because of the same reason.


To put it simply; CCP will add kicking over my QQ'ing corpse. I will fight tooth and nail to prevent any player from ever having control of the ability to kick another from any match. Of course, CCP is under no obligation to listen to me, but that's my thoughts on it. Every lobby multiplayer game I have ever played that allowed kicking, it was abused. It was not fun for anyone but the person doing the kicking. I can promise you that if a player is ever able to kick another player from the match... It will be used for far worse things than someone wasting an alt to win a match for their friends.


Just because someone has director roles doesn't mean they aren't a jerk. You could argue "Oh, they should find a new corp if their directors suck" but what if they like their corpmates, and the director is so far up the CEO's ass that he will never be punished?


Instead of getting caught up on 'fixing' the real problem by creating a different (much worse) problem, what people should be doing in this thread is exploring other methods to stop effortless sabotage that CCP can implement in the short term, that won't cause a massive headache and ruin people's fun?

'Preventing' the awox is a far more important step than 'stopping' the awox IMO. Proper role management IS coming. That fix WILL happen, but not any time in the immediate future. They need to wait for a major expansion for that. Like I said above : right now what the community should focus on is something that will make things better in the meantime without making things worse elsewhere.

lol "corp security"

You play a couple matches with a person and ask them some stuff, then you stick them in a feeder corp for 2 months and play more matches in the meantime.

Wow, that sure is some awesome security

But hey, at least it demonstrates patience on the spy's part

Feeder corps are the way of the future. Lets just ignore the fact that they''ll be completely useless if we ever get a role that determines PC eligibility.

What more do you need? Main corp with trusted mercs a squad leaders, the squad leaders fill their squad with they members the trust and want to be in the battle. The squad leaders join the battle. Where the is the problem? The problem is you or your ceo. Not the game mechanics. This awox problem is lame and preventable. My 10 year old daughter could prevent this just by reading. I forget you TL;DR everything so why am I so surprised by your replies and incorrect assumptions of what I am? This debated is a joke, the problem is lax recruitment and poor execution.

I have given ways to prevent or lessen the problem but you are too busy being a fps douche that has everything given to them rather than thinking about the future. I call them like I see them and you ain't no looker.

People are mad that they got screwed and I understand that but junk shouldn't be added to the game because of noobs mistakes from mercs who don't understand what they are getting into. Almost every corp has this problem but only a few are trying to get the game changed.

lol "corp security"

You play a couple matches with a person and ask them some stuff, then you stick them in a feeder corp for 2 months and play more matches in the meantime.

Wow, that sure is some awesome security

But hey, at least it demonstrates patience on the spy's part

Feeder corps are the way of the future. Lets just ignore the fact that they''ll be completely useless if we ever get a role that determines PC eligibility.

Feeder corps will still have their place even if a role is created. It's a good practice. As are holding corps.

+1

Lance this is a good idea but you probably TL;DR so what is the point? Before I forget, stop QQing, htfu, this is New Eden, this is how EVE does it and we knew it was going to happen.

Well, for one, feeder corps are lame
Two, they wouldn't be needed if CCP would just create role that grants access to PC instead of everyone being allowed in. Unless of course you only created a feeder corp to protect your KDR from noobs, like the imps.

lol taking 1 line out of a post and quoting it hahaha

good job. you still have nothing to add but the usual **** you keep spamming

Care to explain? Not being sarcastic, I'm just that ignorant as to their utility. Like what are they used for in EVE and such?

FIX1: planetary conquest corp roles.

FIX2: the 2 minute server pick time in barge should be in lockdown so that you cannot leave unseen after inviting the party crash.


AWOX is a legitimate, enriching mechanic and should be supported. The awoxer would be much more valuable as a spy in the long term, letting them go for one match is worth it for the victim.

People are getting too caught up on kicking as a 'solution'.

The Long term, 'Best' Fix is proper roles to manage who can join PC, and Toggles for if a corp wants to allow 'ringers' in their matches or not. (Ringing honestly needs it's own contract marketplace IMO, but that is another issue/feature for later)


The only reason CCP is discussing kicking is because it's something they can implement fairly quickly. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want ANOTHER half-assed, ill thought and disruptive mechanic put into the game to 'fix' a problem that only exists because of the same reason.


To put it simply; CCP will add kicking over my QQ'ing corpse. I will fight tooth and nail to prevent any player from ever having control of the ability to kick another from any match. Of course, CCP is under no obligation to listen to me, but that's my thoughts on it. Every lobby multiplayer game I have ever played that allowed kicking, it was abused. It was not fun for anyone but the person doing the kicking. I can promise you that if a player is ever able to kick another player from the match... It will be used for far worse things than someone wasting an alt to win a match for their friends.


Just because someone has director roles doesn't mean they aren't a jerk. You could argue "Oh, they should find a new corp if their directors suck" but what if they like their corpmates, and the director is so far up the CEO's ass that he will never be punished?


Instead of getting caught up on 'fixing' the real problem by creating a different (much worse) problem, what people should be doing in this thread is exploring other methods to stop effortless sabotage that CCP can implement in the short term, that won't cause a massive headache and ruin people's fun?

'Preventing' the awox is a far more important step than 'stopping' the awox IMO. Proper role management IS coming. That fix WILL happen, but not any time in the immediate future. They need to wait for a major expansion for that. Like I said above : right now what the community should focus on is something that will make things better in the meantime without making things worse elsewhere.

I am against kicking options. Too much of a hand holder. I advocate the green light system. Only people who have been "green lighted" by a director or CEO may join. Anyone in their squad is of course pulled in green light or no. As such spies have to work to earn that trust. Instead of giving corps an oh **** button, they get management and screening tools. However once someone is on the warbarge they are there in the battle coded to the crus and that's that. I also think it'll encourage corps to put more emphasis on squad leader training and improve overall teamwork/tactical play for all corps. Spying is still viable as in-game betrayal. That's my 2isk on balance anyway.

Agreed. A role that grants access to PC is the only fix that will work.

Don't think anyone needs to go off on a tangent, and create a wall o txt to solve the issue.

- Assign roles to members allowing them to take part in PC

Then we are at least equal in that aspect.

I am against kicking options. Too much of a hand holder. I advocate the green light system. Only people who have been "green lighted" by a director or CEO may join. Anyone in their squad is of course pulled in green light or no. As such spies have to work to earn that trust. Instead of giving corps an oh **** button, they get management and screening tools. However once someone is on the warbarge they are there in the battle coded to the crus and that's that. I also think it'll encourage corps to put more emphasis on squad leader training and improve overall teamwork/tactical play for all corps. Spying is still viable as in-game betrayal. That's my 2isk on balance anyway.

Care to explain? Not being sarcastic, I'm just that ignorant as to their utility. Like what are they used for in EVE and such?

This is good system and should be considered the long term goal. Currently the oh **** button at least gives us a temporary relief to those corps that dont have EVE toons and other robust tools to help manage split organizations

This is good system and should be considered the long term goal. Currently the oh **** button at least gives us a temporary relief to those corps that dont have EVE toons and other robust tools to help manage split organizations

IWS, your reasoning is flawed.

/kick would be an option that only those IN match could do.

Unless your a director, you can't /kick

If a director wants you out of the match, that's their prerogative. Who gets to participate in PC and inter-corp relations IS metagame.

If a spai gets into the director position, and wrecks havok, that is beautiful metagame.

further, the /kick command at the level of director could be put to a vote.

---

I don't want to cripple awoxing with whatever solution is finally decided upon. But I don't want it to be to easy. Maybe /kick would cripple awoxing, and that is bad.

So directors should be able to grant permission to enter battles. If you make it onto the list, you won the metagame and can now completely throw the match.

Another idea, if you want to remove a clone merc from a battle, you have to remove his conscious profile from the clone bank. Have someone of director level or higher have to complete a rather lengthy hack on the CRU. Once complete, that director can then manipulate the consciousness bank for that battlefield, removing any number of clone soldiers from the resupply list.

Page 1, 1st reply



so you agree with my opinion that Sloth shared, yet you say...



we don't share a single aspect other than you agreeing with my point. I don't go around spamming EVE catch phrases cuz I'm too idiotic to say anything of value. I'm done here.

You agree with my post, although you were too busy trying to troll to notice. Good job at contributing btw

IWS, your reasoning is flawed.

/kick would be an option that only those IN match could do.

Unless your a director, you can't /kick

If a director wants you out of the match, that's their prerogative. Who gets to participate in PC and inter-corp relations IS metagame.

If a spai gets into the director position, and wrecks havok, that is beautiful metagame.

further, the /kick command at the level of director could be put to a vote.

---

I don't want to cripple awoxing with whatever solution is finally decided upon. But I don't want it to be to easy. Maybe /kick would cripple awoxing, and that is bad.

So directors should be able to grant permission to enter battles. If you make it onto the list, you won the metagame and can now completely throw the match.

Another idea, if you want to remove a clone merc from a battle, you have to remove his conscious profile from the clone bank. Have someone of director level or higher have to complete a rather lengthy hack on the CRU. Once complete, that director can then manipulate the consciousness bank for that battlefield, removing any number of clone soldiers from the resupply list.

Well a bit lore nerdy but here goes, In templar 1 when one of the dudes goes all crackers they simply say do not reanimate, So I think a platoon leader shouability to give roles is a must, and kicking from a game has to be one of those potential rokes able to place a DNR order on players meaning if a sabotuer is spotted they have one life to do as much damage as possible and it stops them from just spawn suiciding which just seems bloody silly surely a corp should have a safeguard against that kind of thing. Plus it means spys will actually be rewarded for being stealth and trying to sabotage a match in creative ways without being detected rather than the current look at me I am a spy woot TK for life thing we have going on at the moment. The DNR could also be exploited by the PL but seing as that is easily spotted it would mean they would only do it in high priority situations or try and do it and get away with it by talking their way out of it.

Or when an attack is launched or a defensive battle organised the CEO makes up a passcode for entry into the battle that way they can control who enter the battle but only if they have good operational security which would also mean spys would have to be more than just pressing X really fast which is a good thing.

Bottom line spying is a very valid tactic but it shouldn't be so blooming easy it should be difficult but rewarding when pulled off right.

Roles, and the ability to mark the traitor as an enemy cutting him off from the clone supply so he can't suicide over and over to his heart's content, oh, and shoot the bastard without losing WP for it.

Ironwolf, both of your examples suck you know.

In example 1 it's sad for Timmy, but in that case he should find a better corp for him since that CEO (or director or whoever that kicked him) is just dumb. If a corp doesn't have a CEO and directors that can manage the kick function properly they don't deserve to be in charge of anything. I don't see how this is a problem.

In example 2 you argue that once a player have been giving the ability to kick people from the match it's a problem that he can actually make use of that to sabotage the match? Like really? The corp shouldn't have given him the ability then. I don't see how this is a problem.

People are getting too caught up on kicking as a 'solution'.

The Long term, 'Best' Fix is proper roles to manage who can join PC, and Toggles for if a corp wants to allow 'ringers' in their matches or not. (Ringing honestly needs it's own contract marketplace IMO, but that is another issue/feature for later)


The only reason CCP is discussing kicking is because it's something they can implement fairly quickly. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want ANOTHER half-assed, ill thought and disruptive mechanic put into the game to 'fix' a problem that only exists because of the same reason.


To put it simply; CCP will add kicking over my QQ'ing corpse. I will fight tooth and nail to prevent any player from ever having control of the ability to kick another from any match. Of course, CCP is under no obligation to listen to me, but that's my thoughts on it. Every lobby multiplayer game I have ever played that allowed kicking, it was abused. It was not fun for anyone but the person doing the kicking. I can promise you that if a player is ever able to kick another player from the match... It will be used for far worse things than someone wasting an alt to win a match for their friends.


Just because someone has director roles doesn't mean they aren't a jerk. You could argue "Oh, they should find a new corp if their directors suck" but what if they like their corpmates, and the director is so far up the CEO's ass that he will never be punished?


Instead of getting caught up on 'fixing' the real problem by creating a different (much worse) problem, what people should be doing in this thread is exploring other methods to stop effortless sabotage that CCP can implement in the short term, that won't cause a massive headache and ruin people's fun?

'Preventing' the awox is a far more important step than 'stopping' the awox IMO. Proper role management IS coming. That fix WILL happen, but not any time in the immediate future. They need to wait for a major expansion for that. Like I said above : right now what the community should focus on is something that will make things better in the meantime without making things worse elsewhere.

'Preventing' the awox is a far more important step than 'stopping' the awox IMO. Proper role management IS coming. That fix WILL happen, but not any time in the immediate future. They need to wait for a major expansion for that. Like I said above : right now what the community should focus on is something that will make things better in the meantime without making things worse elsewhere.

CUT

So you have a corp with say 108 players, each one of them wants to play in a PC battle, divide that by 18 is 6 , that is 80 million times 6 is 480,000,000 million isk just to try to give everyone 1 game not to mention that if you win it will take another battle at least so say you win 1/2 that is another 240,000,000.

Short disclaimer before going off into the sunset on fixing the issue.

I'll admit it is far too easy and there needs to be some 'challenge' added for it to happen. Over time though corps will eventually burn all the alts out of the corp so this problem might die down or be reasonably managed within the coming weeks well before CCP pushes out a Sony patch to fix it.

/kick or /votekick option would result in well... lets say far more drama and actual 'real grief' than Awoxing itself.

Example 1 of why kick is bad.
Timmy wanted to enjoy PC for the first time, he is rather fresh and nobody else was available to help fight at the minute the battle started. Timmy we come to find out is far better than originally though far better than the guy he is filling in for. Johnny logs on a minute late to the fight and see that Timmy took his spot. Johnny /kicks Timmy right in the middle of a what would have been a game winning hack and costs the corporation the planet. Johnny would have got fired but he's the CEO and blames Timmy for the loss and kicks him from the corp for something not his fault.

Example 2 of why kick is bad.
Floyd is a spy, he got the role to kick people from a corp match. The corp all goes into a battle and Floyd being very sneaky invites his not so friendly friends and makes them squad leader, and then kicks everyone that isn't his friends out. End Result nobody suspects Floyd because Floyd isn't in the fight and there is not a single friendly on the field. The one sided match does into a grand Mario Kart Race.

TL:DR
Barring the /kick option. What other 'out of the box' solutions would you have? Role? Other Mechanics? Corp Tools? Flagging?

Anyways the floor is yours guys and gals; have at it.

TL:DR
Barring the /kick option. What other 'out of the box' solutions would you have? Role? Other Mechanics? Corp Tools? Flagging?

Anyways the floor is yours guys and gals; have at it.

Ummmmm....I thought kicking was supported by the lore? I didnt read it but I was told malfunctioning clones got deactivated in the book Templar One.

Not sure there's much difference between malfunctioning and betraying. SEMANTICS, really.

When you had control of the only clones on the field you could have locked them out and kept the clone on stasis.

Right now you don't you cannot prevent a person from reactivating, that leads to a permanent death as the consciousness is lost. A clone must activate somewhere with that conscious abound. CRUs are on demand devices and as long as the implants are batched with the router its going to allow it to build a clone.

IMO
a /blockclone command would be more ideal as it would force the hostile to use the enemy's clone supply instead. At least he'll be red and he will stop being able from using blue stuff.

During battle:

1 - Implement a "Prevent spawn" similar to the flag already in place that is used when a team is out of clones to respawn.

2 - An active awoxer remains active until death.

3 - Awoxer cannot respawn at that battle, but still takes a slot, damaging the team.

Before battle:

1 - If you-¦re in a player corporation, you answer to people with functions / roles.

2 - One of this functions/roles, should be the one of designating people to battle on the corporations behalf.

3 - Be it assigning a squad leader and letting him choose his team, or handpicking the entire team themselves.

4 - Any resposability of bad picking lies with the person responsible for the battle designations.

During battle:

1 - Implement a "Prevent spawn" similar to the flag already in place that is used when a team is out of clones to respawn.

2 - An active awoxer remains active until death.

3 - Awoxer cannot respawn at that battle, but still takes a slot, damaging the team.


This way you can awox, you can damage the team, and you have a PERSON that is responsible for anything that happens with the team.

If an awoxer got in, blame your HR responsible, fire him or have proper selection next time.

Ironwolf, both of your examples suck you know.

In example 1 it's sad for Timmy, but in that case he should find a better corp for him since that CEO (or director or whoever that kicked him) is just dumb. If a corp doesn't have a CEO and directors that can manage the kick function properly they don't deserve to be in charge of anything. I don't see how this is a problem.

In example 2 you argue that once a player have been giving the ability to kick people from the match it's a problem that he can actually make use of that to sabotage the match? Like really? The corp shouldn't have given him the ability then. I don't see how this is a problem.

I don't always quote myself, but when I do, I feel sad that I need to reinforce a point that way.

Seriously guys. I have seen like two alternate suggestions to kicking from a match. If you don't like the idea of kicking people... Start coming up with better ideas that are good for the short term that won't cause more problems in the long term than they solve

Sorry about the bad examples but here is where I see kick function being at

It will be the same as refunding isk a disgruntled director stole from the corp.

Sorry about the bad examples but here is where I see kick function being at

It will be the same as refunding isk a disgruntled director stole from the corp.

Oh please an ISK refund like that that is basically obviating the entire sabotage.

With a system like I outlined any smart saboteur can have a very large impact on a battle without it being so inane as sitting in the MCC eating grenades and lol'ing while no one can do anything about it. You really think those two are at all in any way equivalent?

Sorry about the bad examples but here is where I see kick function being at

It will be the same as refunding isk a disgruntled director stole from the corp.

Before battle:

1 - If you-¦re in a player corporation, you answer to people with functions / roles.

2 - One of this functions/roles, should be the one of designating people to battle on the corporations behalf.

3 - Be it assigning a squad leader and letting him choose his team, or handpicking the entire team themselves.

4 - Any resposability of bad picking lies with the person responsible for the battle designations.

During battle:

1 - Implement a "Prevent spawn" similar to the flag already in place that is used when a team is out of clones to respawn.

2 - An active awoxer remains active until death.

3 - Awoxer cannot respawn at that battle, but still takes a slot, damaging the team.


This way you can awox, you can damage the team, and you have a PERSON that is responsible for anything that happens with the team.

If an awoxer got in, blame your HR responsible, fire him or have proper selection next time.

For me this is why you shouldnt be on the CPM

You simply dont understand

The quicker CCP gets the voting problem done with the quicker we can vote in players who know they are talking about i hope

Iron Wolf Saber and Nova Knife.

Just focus on reviewing the ideas people are giving you for this thread. Trust me, it creates less stress and it's more productive.

Maybe you misunderstand Dust a bit.

The game is not designed to hold your hand every time you make a booboo. I mean why in the hell do you lose your fittings when you die?

If you throw kicking in its going to nullify any mistakes easily it would be like oh noes 6 strangers, /kick, invite regulars, almost no harm done.

How about this for a compromise?

To kick a guy from a battle you have to kick them from the corp in order to do so.

Short disclaimer before going off into the sunset on fixing the issue.

I'll admit it is far too easy and there needs to be some 'challenge' added for it to happen. Over time though corps will eventually burn all the alts out of the corp so this problem might die down or be reasonably managed within the coming weeks well before CCP pushes out a Sony patch to fix it.

/kick or /votekick option would result in well... lets say far more drama and actual 'real grief' than Awoxing itself.

Example 1 of why kick is bad.
Timmy wanted to enjoy PC for the first time, he is rather fresh and nobody else was available to help fight at the minute the battle started. Timmy we come to find out is far better than originally though far better than the guy he is filling in for. Johnny logs on a minute late to the fight and see that Timmy took his spot. Johnny /kicks Timmy right in the middle of a what would have been a game winning hack and costs the corporation the planet. Johnny would have got fired but he's the CEO and blames Timmy for the loss and kicks him from the corp for something not his fault.

Example 2 of why kick is bad.
Floyd is a spy, he got the role to kick people from a corp match. The corp all goes into a battle and Floyd being very sneaky invites his not so friendly friends and makes them squad leader, and then kicks everyone that isn't his friends out. End Result nobody suspects Floyd because Floyd isn't in the fight and there is not a single friendly on the field. The one sided match does into a grand Mario Kart Race.

TL:DR
Barring the /kick option. What other 'out of the box' solutions would you have? Role? Other Mechanics? Corp Tools? Flagging?

Anyways the floor is yours guys and gals; have at it.

I know the roles system is still being worked on CCP but I fear that it may not be something you can hot fix in as its mostly new behavior and lots of work. CCP has expressed roles are the more permanent solution. However right now the idea of this thread is to possibly explore possible hot patch-able solutions.

Iron Wolf Saber and Nova Knife.

Just focus on reviewing the ideas people are giving you for this thread. Trust me, it creates less stress and it's more productive.

Dude, your concepts are garbage. Please do the job you were selected for, figure out a good way to vote for CPMs, and then gtfo.

Part of the job is calling CCP on their ****. Telling them not to implement a half-assed broken mechanic to 'fix' another half-assed broken mechanic is a natural step from this.

(If you think Player kicking will stop Awoxing, It won't. Players will just awox every match that doesn't have a director (or someone with the 'kick role' present.)

Kicking is not a solution. It is a problem. We need to let the kick idea die in a fire and come up with solutions that will actually address the problem.

Yay, Edits : Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm not representing people who care about the issue. Look at this thread and Kain's. There's plenty of people opposed to the notion of players having the ability to kick other players under any circumstances. There's two sides (or more) to every coin.

Yay, more edits : It's not like I represent the entire CPM"s view either. Just look at kain's thread. He obviously supports kicking. It's a hot issue, one both sides are very passionate about.

For someone whose role is 50% listening, you suck at it. My 8 year old nephew listens better.

To flat out say you're ignoring any proposal that incorporates a mechanic you personally disagree with is anathema to your job. It's even dumber when there are proposals that utilize that mechanic while avoiding the issues you CLAIM to be concerned about. But no, let's have some dipshit suicide in the MCC all match, b/c that isn't completely and totally asinine.

Gonna have to agree with Recon here. Institute a system for voting, then kindly go back to being regular players. We'll probably all enjoy it more that way, yourselves included.

Part of the job is calling CCP on their ****. Telling them not to implement a half-assed broken mechanic to 'fix' another half-assed broken mechanic is a natural step from this.

(If you think Player kicking will stop Awoxing, It won't. Players will just awox every match that doesn't have a director (or someone with the 'kick role' present.)

Kicking is not a solution. It is a problem. We need to let the kick idea die in a fire and come up with solutions that will actually address the problem.

Yay, Edits : Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm not representing people who care about the issue. Look at this thread and Kain's. There's plenty of people opposed to the notion of players having the ability to kick other players under any circumstances. There's two sides (or more) to every coin.

Allow kicking in the form of denying the use of corporate clones to the saboteur. If the enemy team wants to give them access to their clones, that's their choice. Otherwise they are removed from the battle the next time they die. Commanders and higher rank can grant clone access to rogue third parties in the battles. There should be a 1 minute timer from the time an agent is removed from the team's clones that the opposing team can allow the agent access to theirs. During this timer the agent will not be removed from the battle, just prevented from respawning if killed. This is to prevent an agent from being kicked killed and booted in rapid succession. If kicking is allowed in the pre-battle MCC the enemy team needs the ability to grant clone access that early as well. There also needs to be a 1:30 spawn timer at the start of the match, for reasons I went into elsewhere.

Add the following roles under director: Commander, Squad Lead.

Commander, Directors, and CEOs have implicit permission to join PC battles. Squad leaders need explicit permission, but only to join PC battles in general (meaning they only need a checkbox somewhere to allow them to join all PC battles, do not require explicit permission for each individual battle). Grunts require nothing, just being in the squad of someone with PC permissions to get them in. Send after-action reports to the CEO stating who joined a battle when and with whom, to prevent abusing the mechanic allowing a rogue to pull in hostile squads without ever risking his identity.

Officers can only kick players of lower rank, and they must be present in the battle to do so. Squad leaders can only kick mercs in their squad. Once kicked the player is removed from the battle the next time they die if they haven't been granted access to the other team's clones within a minute of having been kicked.

I think this is a flexible system of controls that still allows for sabotage of varying degrees of severity, dependent on how much planning went into implementing it and how much time and effort went into the infiltration.

Did you bother reading Chicago's post? Step away from your own personal view for a sec, and can you see why a console or someone That's on the "military side" of this game are anti spy? Not saying to stop it completely but how is switch the spy to red, the same as kicking? the reds have numbers in favor now.


what it seems you want is a way to water down the strength of good FPS players. What can a player do if the other one is in mcc blowing himself up? So the weak sorry "smart" can win by caging the wolf?

Password protected planetary conquest matches.

When a director moves to attack a district or gets the notification for a defense of one. They are then given the option to set a password for the match.

This makes it to where the people able to hop in a match have to be trusted, or pay off someone who is trusted to get in the match.

Lore wise, there's a reason you have to hack CRUs.

For someone whose role is 50% listening, you suck at it. My 8 year old nephew listens better.

To flat out say you're ignoring any proposal that incorporates a mechanic you personally disagree with is anathema to your job. It's even dumber when there are proposals that utilize that mechanic while avoiding the issues you CLAIM to be concerned about. But no, let's have some dipshit suicide in the MCC all match, b/c that isn't completely and totally asinine.

Gonna have to agree with Recon here. Institute a system for voting, then kindly go back to being regular players. We'll probably all enjoy it more that way, yourselves included.

In the short term password protection on a match by match basis is probably the best alternative.

Password protected planetary conquest matches.

When a director moves to attack a district or gets the notification for a defense of one. They are then given the option to set a password for the match.

This makes it to where the people able to hop in a match have to be trusted, or pay off someone who is trusted to get in the match.

Lore wise, there's a reason you have to hack CRUs.

To make it even easier just have a corp wide password that you need to have. Only the CEO can set it (eve side included) then just pass it amongst your trusted members.

In the short term password protection on a match by match basis is probably the best alternative.

passwords..

*how come you didn't think of that?*

shut up. I like that idea.

I know its simple stupid you'd think we (all) would have came up with it earlier.

First of CCP needs to allow people to hold multiple rights on dust.

3 rights attributed to members of corps to fix AWOXING

1. Right to join PC battles. This is the lowest of the rights and this only allows you to join by yourself. You can not bring a squad in.

2. Right to bring a squad in. This means you can bring in anyone you want to a PC battle. This allows you to bring none members into PC and also allows you to bring people who do not have the right to join PC by themselves. This is a spot that requires more trust.

3. the kick function. This should not be linked to directors roll at all. This needs to be a separate role in itself. Now you can only kick in the war barge. This allows you to easily get ride of anyone who might have accidently got in there and also any evil squads that sneak in with someone. Once in the match and it has started you loose rights to this function. and ur stuck with who made it into battle with you.

This makes it possible to AWOX after you have gained trust and worked your way into alliance. But it makes it difficult. You need to work your way up to gain the most rights. It also lets corps have more control over who has what rights.

So if someone reveals themselves to be a traitor they get to just eat grenades in the mcc all match? I think that's a poor mechanic since there're no way for the betrayed team to respond nor does it require any effort on the part of the other team to facilitate the betrayal and gain an advantage from it. It's just a lame suicide party.

so explain how requiring a password would prevent TKers?


im done talking to stooped over here...


you wanna argue a 'kick' function causes other issues with someone's self esteem or all kinds of meta-game hoopla that only keyboard kowboys care about just gtfo.

seriously.. if you're a good spy and get promoted where u can do this, then it just takes your AWOXing to a whole new level, BUT at the end of it you only have yourself to blame....

so sad how some people try to overanalyze such an easily resolved scenario

I am firmly against kicking AWOXers from the match altogether. What I am in favor of, however, is kicking them from the team.

So here are my 2 ISK on the issue.

Whenever you are TKed, you have the option to initiate the "Suspect" vote on the player that killed you. A small window appears on the top left corner of the screen of every team member except for the killer, prompting them to either "Approve" (arrow up) or "Deny" (arrow down). Once a set number of votes in favor has been casted (probably half of the team, since the TKer doesn't vote), the AWOXer now has a "Suspect" flag on him. What that means is that he will be marked yellow for the remainder of his team, allowing them to kill him without losing WP. He will be also restricted access to the team's clone vats, practically putting him into "hardcore" mode with one life. Upon death he, as it was suggested previously, will be able to ask the opposite team to accept him in, and a vote similar to "Suspect" would be performed to accept or reject his request.

In the case where the enemy team doesn't accept the betrayer, his clone would remain on the ground for an extended period of time. During this time, if the AWOXer has a buddy that didn't yet reveal himself or wasn't killed as a Suspect, the latter can revive the fallen AWOXer silently and let him continue on his rampage. Note that the location of the downed Suspect should be shown to every merc in the battle with a nanite injector as the yellow NI sign to indicate that this is not simply a team member calling for help.

Squad leaders should also have a "Suspect" option on their command wheel; this option would initiate the vote as well. This command would be useful when you see a person sabotaging your team but not by means of TKing anyone (for example, he still shoots his teammates, but only brings them to low health for the enemy to finish).

I definitely agree with the suggestions of the corp roles, but I believe that the method described above will help when there are no people with sufficient rights present at the time of battle. That would especially work out better for small corps where directors and CEOs are not always online and can't decide who will go into the battles.

so explain how requiring a password would prevent TKers?

Basically you setup a password and only share it with your trusted squad leads or fighters and they can get in, everyone else will be locked out unless you have a turn coat. But at least players have to earn the trust to earn that password.

Example 2 of why kick is bad.
Floyd is a spy, he got the role to kick people from a corp match. The corp all goes into a battle and Floyd being very sneaky invites his not so friendly friends and makes them squad leader, and then kicks everyone that isn't his friends out. End Result nobody suspects Floyd because Floyd isn't in the fight and there is not a single friendly on the field. The one sided match does into a grand Mario Kart Race.

Short disclaimer before going off into the sunset on fixing the issue.

I'll admit it is far too easy and there needs to be some 'challenge' added for it to happen. Over time though corps will eventually burn all the alts out of the corp so this problem might die down or be reasonably managed within the coming weeks well before CCP pushes out a Sony patch to fix it.

/kick or /votekick option would result in well... lets say far more drama and actual 'real grief' than Awoxing itself.

Example 1 of why kick is bad.
Timmy wanted to enjoy PC for the first time, he is rather fresh and nobody else was available to help fight at the minute the battle started. Timmy we come to find out is far better than originally though far better than the guy he is filling in for. Johnny logs on a minute late to the fight and see that Timmy took his spot. Johnny /kicks Timmy right in the middle of a what would have been a game winning hack and costs the corporation the planet. Johnny would have got fired but he's the CEO and blames Timmy for the loss and kicks him from the corp for something not his fault.

Example 2 of why kick is bad.
Floyd is a spy, he got the role to kick people from a corp match. The corp all goes into a battle and Floyd being very sneaky invites his not so friendly friends and makes them squad leader, and then kicks everyone that isn't his friends out. End Result nobody suspects Floyd because Floyd isn't in the fight and there is not a single friendly on the field. The one sided match does into a grand Mario Kart Race.

TL:DR
Barring the /kick option. What other 'out of the box' solutions would you have? Role? Other Mechanics? Corp Tools? Flagging?

Anyways the floor is yours guys and gals; have at it.

The thing is they only effect one match. They went through the efforts put the work in to become trusted enought to make it into the match. So to me I do not think this is bad they have earned there right to AWOX if they make it through the warbarge and also gained the trust to be part of PC. If you allow kicking in the match then the whole ability to AWOX is basically gone because you can be replaced instantly. That is why i think kicking only before the match in the warbarge should be allowed.

Currently Awoxing doesn't guarantee wins though there was a few corps yesterday bragging about foiling evil plans of betamax infiltration.

Currently Awoxing doesn't guarantee wins though there was a few corps yesterday bragging about foiling evil plans of betamax infiltration.

Probably because they're running around trying to TK instead of wasting clones as quickly as possible. Are they even in comms relaying enemy positions and movements to their teams?

Frankly if you awox in the current system and still lose it really is an epic fail.

Absolutely.

If done right it should result in a game with:

10 vs 16 hostiles
friendlies destroying your equipment and rapidly depleting your clone reserves
all your movements and position being relayed in real time

How these guys make a mess of that is beyond me.

Password protected planetary conquest matches.

When a director moves to attack a district or gets the notification for a defense of one. They are then given the option to set a password for the match.

This makes it to where the people able to hop in a match have to be trusted, or pay off someone who is trusted to get in the match.

Lore wise, there's a reason you have to hack CRUs.

To make it even easier just have a corp wide password that you need to have. Only the CEO can set it (eve side included) then just pass it amongst your trusted members.

so explain how requiring a password would prevent TKers?

By far the best idea so far.

According to the people who watched my latest video about AWOXing not being as effective as other infiltration technique and assumed I was anti-meta, there doesn't need to be a change. It's great for the game.

Personally, I think it should require some actual effort to ruin a game. Right now, it's as simple as getting into the corp and waiting for the timer. There should be some sort of allotment selection for directors to assign slots to members. If they select an AWOXer, that's on them and the AWOXer did what he's supposed to do.

I don't think it needs to be FIXED, but there should be tweaks made to the PC battle roster.

Solution ^^

It sounds to me like Floyd has played his cards right and is benefiting from worming his way into a position of trust. Also, why would there not be a notification of who has kicked a player (like most other AAA games)? The spy does his damage in a blatant way, burns his cover but potentially has a decisive effect on the corp battle.

How about this?

Battle Commander - Can kick anyone.
Squad Leader - Can kick anyone in his squad.

If the Battle Commander is a spy, game over and rightly so. This person has played the metagame like wormtongue/littlefinger and is reaping the reward by throwing the match irrevocably.
If the Squad Leader is a spy he can start kicking members of his squad or replacing them at a critical moment in the game. He will be removed by the Battle Commander but the damage he does has a good chance of losing the battle for his host corp.

Minor issue is the password protection on channels is broke again it seems. They had fixed it a while back but it seems to be popping up again


Basically if a Dust created channel is put under PW protection one could enter the name of the chat and reset the client and you would be in the channel. While this mechanic being suggested is different it something that could end up failing or be bypassed, IE try to enter battle and get PW screen, reset client and potentailly have access to the match(granted given the need for reset likely the team will have successfully filled in by the time you relog so perhaps its moot, just playing devil's advocate).

Currently Awoxing doesn't guarantee wins though there was a few corps yesterday bragging about foiling evil plans of betamax infiltration.

It only doesn't guarantee a win if you are either A) CPM Jenza or B) Dumb and terrible at this game or C) Both

or the guys you infiltrated into the battle where the bottom of the merc marketplace.

I know its simple stupid you'd think we (all) would have came up with it earlier.

Why would you infiltrate a battle vs. a corp that was the bottom of the merc marketplace? Seems like a waste of time to infiltrate the worst merc corp in Dust...aim a little higher.

Maybe because this has been suggested months ago and multiple times in this thread.

You say, give us ideas to fix this problem! So we do, and you ignore them because they can't be hotfixed. Well you asked for Roles, Corp tools and Flagging, and said "outside of kicking". How are we to know what is hotfixable and what requires more? I can't give ideas on something you haven't even defined. No wonder some people are exasperated with the CPM.

I won't know until I ask either. Passwords are 'feasible' but the hardest of the options right now.

"Care to lay out "the options right now"

Yes and the discussion has been to remove you from council along with Jenza and some other betamax idiot as well as closing the broken game mechanic that was meant to make it easy to squad up for Pub matches....all of this can be found in multiple threads.

This is not about what you want to discuss or want.

You can man up and do your job or better yet resign.

That was kind of the point of this thread.

To lay out options and then get CCP's input on what is possible to get out in a matter of days or weeks, without waiting months for an expansion.


Ironwolf is just not very good at creating threads like this yet :P

I won't know until I ask either. Passwords are 'feasible' but the hardest of the options right now.