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Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.05.21 08:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:People are getting too caught up on kicking as a 'solution'.
The Long term, 'Best' Fix is proper roles to manage who can join PC, and Toggles for if a corp wants to allow 'ringers' in their matches or not. (Ringing honestly needs it's own contract marketplace IMO, but that is another issue/feature for later)
The only reason CCP is discussing kicking is because it's something they can implement fairly quickly. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want ANOTHER half-assed, ill thought and disruptive mechanic put into the game to 'fix' a problem that only exists because of the same reason.
To put it simply; CCP will add kicking over my QQ'ing corpse. I will fight tooth and nail to prevent any player from ever having control of the ability to kick another from any match. Of course, CCP is under no obligation to listen to me, but that's my thoughts on it. Every lobby multiplayer game I have ever played that allowed kicking, it was abused. It was not fun for anyone but the person doing the kicking. I can promise you that if a player is ever able to kick another player from the match... It will be used for far worse things than someone wasting an alt to win a match for their friends.
Just because someone has director roles doesn't mean they aren't a jerk. You could argue "Oh, they should find a new corp if their directors suck" but what if they like their corpmates, and the director is so far up the CEO's ass that he will never be punished?
Instead of getting caught up on 'fixing' the real problem by creating a different (much worse) problem, what people should be doing in this thread is exploring other methods to stop effortless sabotage that CCP can implement in the short term, that won't cause a massive headache and ruin people's fun?
'Preventing' the awox is a far more important step than 'stopping' the awox IMO. Proper role management IS coming. That fix WILL happen, but not any time in the immediate future. They need to wait for a major expansion for that. Like I said above : right now what the community should focus on is something that will make things better in the meantime without making things worse elsewhere.
No kidding roles are needed nobody thinks they arent needed. We dont want anyone to have the kick option willy nilly that would allow for even more lazy griefing including the saboteurs themselves.
Point is option for kick from battle is something that can be limited to PC where it doesnt ruin anyones fun. If a squad leader uses it and abuses it then you go to your leaders.
If your leaders don't care perhaps its time to find a new corp. Really every other excuse is just a poor overreach of someone who doesn't like the idea of it being used to abuse players during match.
Guess what if the players arent wanted in battle they aren't going to be allowed in. If they are truly disliked they would be kicked anyway. So your abuse theory is limited to pub matches where yes its abused. But In PC there is no real abuse of it except by abusive people. If you like the corp but hate the directors defect and create a new and better corp, you know like we did. |
Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.05.21 08:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:I am against kicking options. Too much of a hand holder. I advocate the green light system. Only people who have been "green lighted" by a director or CEO may join. Anyone in their squad is of course pulled in green light or no. As such spies have to work to earn that trust. Instead of giving corps an oh **** button, they get management and screening tools. However once someone is on the warbarge they are there in the battle coded to the crus and that's that. I also think it'll encourage corps to put more emphasis on squad leader training and improve overall teamwork/tactical play for all corps. Spying is still viable as in-game betrayal. That's my 2isk on balance anyway.
This is good system and should be considered the long term goal. Currently the oh **** button at least gives us a temporary relief to those corps that dont have EVE toons and other robust tools to help manage split organizations
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Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error.
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Posted - 2013.05.21 13:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Nova Knife wrote:People are getting too caught up on kicking as a 'solution'.
The Long term, 'Best' Fix is proper roles to manage who can join PC, and Toggles for if a corp wants to allow 'ringers' in their matches or not. (Ringing honestly needs it's own contract marketplace IMO, but that is another issue/feature for later)
The only reason CCP is discussing kicking is because it's something they can implement fairly quickly. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want ANOTHER half-assed, ill thought and disruptive mechanic put into the game to 'fix' a problem that only exists because of the same reason.
To put it simply; CCP will add kicking over my QQ'ing corpse. I will fight tooth and nail to prevent any player from ever having control of the ability to kick another from any match. Of course, CCP is under no obligation to listen to me, but that's my thoughts on it. Every lobby multiplayer game I have ever played that allowed kicking, it was abused. It was not fun for anyone but the person doing the kicking. I can promise you that if a player is ever able to kick another player from the match... It will be used for far worse things than someone wasting an alt to win a match for their friends.
Just because someone has director roles doesn't mean they aren't a jerk. You could argue "Oh, they should find a new corp if their directors suck" but what if they like their corpmates, and the director is so far up the CEO's ass that he will never be punished?
Instead of getting caught up on 'fixing' the real problem by creating a different (much worse) problem, what people should be doing in this thread is exploring other methods to stop effortless sabotage that CCP can implement in the short term, that won't cause a massive headache and ruin people's fun?
'Preventing' the awox is a far more important step than 'stopping' the awox IMO. Proper role management IS coming. That fix WILL happen, but not any time in the immediate future. They need to wait for a major expansion for that. Like I said above : right now what the community should focus on is something that will make things better in the meantime without making things worse elsewhere. I don't always quote myself, but when I do, I feel sad that I need to reinforce a point that way. Seriously guys. I have seen like two alternate suggestions to kicking from a match. If you don't like the idea of kicking people... Start coming up with better ideas that are good for the short term that won't cause more problems in the long term than they solve
You know what Nova, im quite sick of your personal agendas who the hell elected you to make decisions on behalf of the COMMUNITY, oh wait NOONE. Here we go again with CPMs overreaching and abusing their power and position "CCP will add kicking over my QQ'ing corpse."
REALLY WHO THE EFF DO YOU THINK YOU ARE THAT YOUR OPINION IS THE VALID ARGUMENT AND THUS THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS.
IWS at least gave some hypotheticals, the first hypothetical really isn't a good example because frankly if the situation did occur you don't QQ you get even and lead a coup or insurrection(look at how players in PRO did it when they wanted to get away from CBJ or look at the foundation of the IMPS for that matter.
#2 was at least at least thought out more. Noone including us at NF want to stomp out AWOXXING; we love the idea but it has to be done properly and the fact still remains you have many robust tools EVEside that you simply don't have Dust side to limit awoxxing so in actuality you are comparing 2 entirely different methods of making this happen and why you need TEMPORARY measures in place.
Frankly i dont care if you have an opinion you are entitled to it,
YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO A PERSONEL AGENDA AND ADAMANTLY ARGUE UNDER A FALSE PREMISE; YOU HAVE NOT JUSTIFIED YOUR STANCE AGAINST KICK FEATURE(EVEN IN A TEMPORARY MEASURE) BUT CONTINUE TO PRESS A PERSONAL AGENDA BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND NOT COMMUNITY EXPERIENCE OR FEEDBACK.
CPM is not a Player elected body stop acting as if you represent our voice and start actually listening to this community or watch it revolt and tear it to the ground this is why we didn't want a CPM in the first place and certainly not a CCP appointed CPM. Now hurry the eff up and setup the voting process so we as a community can make determinations in who should or should not be in CPM as this was the main purpose of CPM0, if you continue to abuse your power and your ability to influence CCP through filtered access and biased viewpoints you will do more harm than any kick feature can.
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Gunner Nightingale
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Posted - 2013.05.21 18:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:NewOldMan wrote:Password protected planetary conquest matches.
When a director moves to attack a district or gets the notification for a defense of one. They are then given the option to set a password for the match.
This makes it to where the people able to hop in a match have to be trusted, or pay off someone who is trusted to get in the match.
Lore wise, there's a reason you have to hack CRUs.
To make it even easier just have a corp wide password that you need to have. Only the CEO can set it (eve side included) then just pass it amongst your trusted members. By far the best idea so far.
Minor issue is the password protection on channels is broke again it seems. They had fixed it a while back but it seems to be popping up again
Basically if a Dust created channel is put under PW protection one could enter the name of the chat and reset the client and you would be in the channel. While this mechanic being suggested is different it something that could end up failing or be bypassed, IE try to enter battle and get PW screen, reset client and potentailly have access to the match(granted given the need for reset likely the team will have successfully filled in by the time you relog so perhaps its moot, just playing devil's advocate). |
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