DUST Search - HMG Review (as unbiased as possible...I promise :D )

General Tiberius1 wrote:

Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:

CCP Remnant wrote:

Yeah... right now only the Amarr heavy frame model is complete. In Uprising we've started pushing all the suits more into specific race profiles, but of course when you're missing 75% of the other frame options you're bound to have some balance holes. The Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente heavy frames are coming, but not as soon as we'd all like.

To that point though, how would you guys like us to approach that? Would you want Type-IIs and more sidegrade variants to tide you over until the other suits come online? (Even knowing that we'll probably retire them once the others arrive?)

Having more choices in suits is always a good thing. Having said that, I didn't really have a problem with the current suits other than being forced to spec into only 1 race.

Slower mobility is a pain, but it becomes even more of a pain with the limitations of the current HMG. If we had more range / dmg / tighter spread / something that improves the HMG in general, then adapting to a slower suit becomes easier. Like if I had this suit in the last build but with the old HMG stats, it would have been a matter of changing playstyle, to a more defensive role due to lack of mobility and speed.

Faster suits encourages a more aggressive heavy playstyle...at least for me!

same here. so hope the caldari heavy is an attack heavy of some sort


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 826	Posted - 2013.05.08 11:19:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Things relevant to my interest My experience is they aren't doing enough damage to kill anyone quickly. proto HMG lost two high slots for complex mods, lost weaponry bonus, lost over 20% base damage. that's a rather sharp loss of firepower from chromosome from a weapon that really only shined butchering standard and militia fits and was ok shredding advanced fits and consistently lost to ARs in proto versus proto. now I have literally charged through HMG fire in a std Gallente suit and shotgun popped heavies. The damage output seems lacking severely against suits running 500-600+ effective HP routinely. the dropsuits got hitpoint buffs, and the heavy antipersonnel lost a lot of thoroughput. yes they still kill, but not in any fashion most of us consider effective or fun. heavies are fun as door-kickers, they aren't fun standing in one place waiting for the enemy to get off their asses and come to you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 826	Posted - 2013.05.08 11:23:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Things relevant to my interest proto HMG lost two high slots for complex mods, lost weaponry bonus, lost over 20% base damage. Excellent point. I'd forgotten that they were being buffed by the blanket bonus to all weapon damage given by the weaponry skill. plus IMHO heavies were far more fun when you played them as door kickers with the full knowledge you were a priority target and going to die first, but do real damage dying.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 826	Posted - 2013.05.08 11:24:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: That's odd. Is that 20m as seen from the target intel info on-screen? I double-checked the curves like five minutes ago and they're definitely 30m for optimal range. I'll investigate further. The longest HMG kill I have gotten was 29m and that took nearly an entire clip because the spread is so wide at that range it becomes highly ineffective. Please don't take this as me being snarky, but you guys do know that the HMG dispersion get tighter the longer you fire it, right? yessir. but in chromosome even I noticed that the HMG has a hard time killing targets at more than 20 meters because even constricted targets that far out fill a lot less of the cone of fire than they do at 10 meters, so you lose a lot of the rounds to empty space. 20-30 was the sweet spot that killed most heavies in duels with assault rifles. Giant head hitbox. gotta love it.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 826	Posted - 2013.05.08 11:34:00 - [4] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: For tracking consider this a bug report, or that its become more aparent in this build. I played heavy the entire beta, I can not keep my recitle on target. At range spread forces you to look down the sights, which cant keep on anyone not walking. closer... it seems the fluidity of aiming slows directiion change, and/or causes over shooting. I've noticed this problem too. I cannot pin it down and figure out if it's related to my controls until my baby sister (i love her, really I do) quits being a jokester and un-hides the PS3. I'll poke at this and see if I can't replicate and report the problem. But I'm having the problem with all suits, not just fatsuits.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 826	Posted - 2013.05.08 11:38:00 - [5] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: I honestly only feel like this is due to the other classes movement buff in the form of strafe sprinting.It makes the much harder to track and keep on target. it's the reticle. at 20-30 meters the target usually fills 40% or so of a constricted targetting reticle. so they fill maybe 40% of the cone of fire for the HMG. By the way I love that you guys actually used that.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 826	Posted - 2013.05.08 11:46:00 - [6] - Quote focus guys we have a dev paying attention. try not to get sidetracked and give the man as much info as you can. I need to go to bed. 4am debating balance in DUST. I really am an irredeemable nerd.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 836	Posted - 2013.05.09 01:47:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: martinofski wrote: I think with the current maps design, we should have received another race for the heavy, a shield, fast version for "running" around and turning at reasonnable speeds so we can track the guy running and jumping in minmatar logi using their 4high,4low,4equip setup and duvolles. This patch was indead bad for the heavys since you either use what is available and run the sentinel that you don't want, or you do like me and don't upgrade the dropsuit and use the militia one to save your SP. Yeah... right now only the Amarr heavy frame model is complete. In Uprising we've started pushing all the suits more into specific race profiles, but of course when you're missing 75% of the other frame options you're bound to have some balance holes. The Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente heavy frames are coming, but not as soon as we'd all like. To that point though, how would you guys like us to approach that? Would you want Type-IIs and more sidegrade variants to tide you over until the other suits come online? (Even knowing that we'll probably retire them once the others arrive?) i would like to retain the versatility of the old frames. Shoehorn the specific roles onto specialist suits please.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 839	Posted - 2013.05.09 01:57:00 - [8] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: Grimmnyr Odynson wrote: Glorithiel Laenreth wrote: Just a little thing, in the real world, range of a HMG M2-HB Browing (cal 50) = 1200 meters. Range of a assault rifle = 300-400 meters. That's not true for assault rifles. Effective range for an M-16 A2 is 550 yards so approximately 503 meters. Farthest I ever had to put rounds on a target in boot camp was 500 yards (USMC) and that's on a target that is human sized. Max effective range against a vehicle is 800 yards or about 731 1/2 meters. Even the USMC isn't that hardcore that they can improve your eyesight. Unless that is a full 6 ft. fat guy standing 500 meters away and your weapon is zeroed to 500 meters. I still don't see it. Point target training with an M-16 is 550 meters. 800 meters on things like hummvees and tightly grouped idiots. browning HMG: over a mile 2500 meters is the longest confirmed kill with a 'ma deuce. .30 cal machineguns are just shy of 2000 meters Assault rifles range between 400-600 ironsights depending on model. Don't post what you have no clue about. Especially not the marines if you have never been one.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 839	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:02:00 - [9] - Quote All I want is the HMG fixed to be usable. the amarr suit is fine. I used the armor tanked type 1, A-type and Vk.0 in the last build. I did doorkicker just fine with it. but the HMG is not viable even on point defense. not enough range, not enough damage. Balancing based on **** coming out in 3-4 months is REALLY uncool.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 839	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:07:00 - [10] - Quote General Tiberius1 wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Yeah... right now only the Amarr heavy frame model is complete. In Uprising we've started pushing all the suits more into specific race profiles, but of course when you're missing 75% of the other frame options you're bound to have some balance holes. The Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente heavy frames are coming, but not as soon as we'd all like. To that point though, how would you guys like us to approach that? Would you want Type-IIs and more sidegrade variants to tide you over until the other suits come online? (Even knowing that we'll probably retire them once the others arrive?) Having more choices in suits is always a good thing. Having said that, I didn't really have a problem with the current suits other than being forced to spec into only 1 race. Slower mobility is a pain, but it becomes even more of a pain with the limitations of the current HMG. If we had more range / dmg / tighter spread / something that improves the HMG in general, then adapting to a slower suit becomes easier. Like if I had this suit in the last build but with the old HMG stats, it would have been a matter of changing playstyle, to a more defensive role due to lack of mobility and speed. Faster suits encourages a more aggressive heavy playstyle...at least for me! same here. so hope the caldari heavy is an attack heavy of some sort gallente needs to be an attack fatty minmatar needs to be a versatile fatty Caldari needs to be a long ranged fatty Amarr need to be the toughest fatties

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 839	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:10:00 - [11] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: I am a soldier. 550 meters? the army and marine training is not the same. They use different standards and have different expectations. Marines have to do more with less because they use the gear they looted from the Army disposal piles.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 839	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:17:00 - [12] - Quote I'd like the assault players to have to think about alternate angles of attack that don't involve "stand in front of the heavy and aim for his head because LOLmachinegun" I want a gallente man-portable blaster. like on the tank turret. because the HMG is not fulfilling it's purpose as an antipersonnel weapon.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 840	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:22:00 - [13] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: Actually, when I was in Afghanistan I was jealous of the gear the Marines had. They are the few the proud, so obviously is was more cost effective to equip them with the best **. Atleast that is how I took it after doing 72 hour missions with ** gear and having to fix everything in our platoon because I was one of the only people that actually cared about our mission readiness when our job was to run rabbit for local disease infested backstabbers that stole anything they could off of you and ROE said you couldn't shoot the third world degenerates. Damn. things have improved for the Corps. then. My assault rifle damn near looked Minmatar. Except I wasn't allowed to let it rust like their ships.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 840	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:25:00 - [14] - Quote We would like a viable antipersonnel weapon and the tracking problems that have been talked about fixed. other than that, the amarr heavy suits are pretty goddamned solid. It's not the suit that needs fixed. it's the gun.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 840	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:44:00 - [15] - Quote brainstorming is great so long as CCP *PARTICIPATES*
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 841	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:53:00 - [16] - Quote Grimmnyr Odynson wrote: I appreciate hearing that you guys have heard us but can we get some feedback as to what, if any, changes might be made? Personally I vote for reverting the changes to HMG (not the ss or weaponry ** just that extra damage/range nerf) then, slowly**, tweaking slightly until in a good spot that the community and devs can agree on. freaking this a million times this.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 841	Posted - 2013.05.09 03:32:00 - [17] - Quote Grenadez Rollack wrote: Has anyone tried the heavy suit with a laser. Im just curious about that and trying to find a way to continue to play dust. Cause I'm not even turning my ps3 on to play under the current conditions. fatty with an AR. I plan on using a scrambler rifle instead of HMG for antipersonnel. it works a lot better I'll bet
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 842	Posted - 2013.05.09 03:45:00 - [18] - Quote Talruum Tezztarozza wrote: Caldari - shield tank - long range Galentte - armor tank - short range dps Amarr - HEAVY tank - laser bases ? (Ummm........I alway thought Amarr is armor tank and Gakentte is hybrid) Mimintar - speed tank - ??? explosive ? from the look of it. (I also thought Mimintar is the longest range one here and Caldari love spamming missle) fixed that for you. Amarr traditionally field the most hardened defenses overall. Both in terms of resistances and potential buffer. But rarely both at once.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 843	Posted - 2013.05.09 05:17:00 - [19] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: I love this thread. CCP takes out the 'Heavy + HMG = I win button' and here comes a river of tears. It's funny to think that all those ppl that thought they had gun skills now realize that they did not have anything that CCP did not spoon feed them. 2/10 nice attempt at thread derail. What's the matter, afraid something constructive will happen and you'll lose your effortless HMG kills?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 849	Posted - 2013.05.10 05:13:00 - [20] - Quote Grenadez Rollack wrote: I said I was gonna try running with an AR but today I still didnt even turn my ps3 on. I just dont see why I habe to switch to an AR just to be able to enjoy dust. I had put all my sp into heavy class. I had over 8 million sp and spect it all in heavy and can't even kill some players in militia suits. I think ill just sit out and wait and hope they redo the heavy class or give us a chance to respect again. I guess its a giod thing though cause now I give my girl and kids more time and get more sleep for work instead of playing dust all day when something ceases to be fun, then there's always stuff to do. +1

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 956	Posted - 2013.06.06 23:44:00 - [21] - Quote sentinels are defensive. Heavies are heavies. Let's kick some doors in. Edit: And D Legendary Hero's bad ideas are bad. He should feel bad. that is all. Send your tribute to me, the King of Heavies, within the next week.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 958	Posted - 2013.06.07 00:27:00 - [22] - Quote It's playable now. If it's not you suck at it. try something you're good at D. there is nothing unplayable about the heavy or no one would.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 962	Posted - 2013.06.07 07:54:00 - [23] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: D Legendary Hero, please teach me how to play heavy if you insist. Insert Irrelevant tinfoil hat crap. Me? Ask you to teach me how to play Heavy? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm sorry when I want to go back to the toddler class for Fatsuits I'll ask you for a how-to manual. Unfortunately I'll correct it with red crayon before continuing on.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 962	Posted - 2013.06.07 07:56:00 - [24] - Quote that's because you still care. I don't. which makes me far more awesome, and dangerous.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 962	Posted - 2013.06.07 09:16:00 - [25] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: OMG STUFF Now you too know the horror. This is the guy who threadjacks everything to spam this crap all over. He also thinks he gets to instruct me in how to play heavy. Hilarious no? No, still insulting.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 962	Posted - 2013.06.07 10:45:00 - [26] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: the AR is supposed to be the most versitile weapon but not just plain OP. but since you like being able to do everyone's job with the AR so be it. You're a moron. I play heavy exclusively, and I use the HMG, not an AR. My specialty is Forge Guns though. I'm very good at removing vehicles from the map. I only run an assault fit when I feel like tooling around pretending to be one of the cool kids. But I use militia fits for that.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet 968	Posted - 2013.06.08 11:04:00 - [27] - Quote Podge89 wrote: Your sad man. This has gone from a genuine thread to a vendetta between you and another, **** off somewhere else and argue! We got a problem that needs fixin got bored. wandered off. I could come back, but since CCP fixed the HMG already I was blowing off steam with someone who's better at threadjacking than providing actual evidence. I can only have a battle of wits with the unarmed for so long before It gets dull.