And make this hackable Objective RT affect immediately when the next match starts... Would it be fairly enough for you?

Awesome! That will give the new people an incentive to join a smaller or newer corp! Should they run out and grab a subscription to EVE so that they can see how New Eden CAN be really neat?

Where did I ever assume that small guys or new guys should have an equal say? I am not assuming when I say they will NEVER have an equal shot. They will NEVER become 'big' and they will NEVER be able to keep people on board and they will NEVER NEVER NEVER.

What I was suggesting was a way that it could all still be intertwined WITHOUT the upstarts HAVING to go toe-to-toe with the big corps and vice versa.

Again, can't get the MORE PEOPLE PLAYING THE GAME point across to some people. That leads me to believe that those people are some how getting off on spawn camping and the other obvious flaws that the basic battle dynamic has.

If the idea of utter domination without competition sounds like fun, then maybe those folks should just beat their wives instead of playing a game.

If numbers are what is ultimately going to matter, then the system should be designed so that ALL aspiring corps can increase their numbers competitively. Anyone who can argue against that is one of the 'sandbox' people.

If the intention is to build another little sandbox and keep the masses that weren't in the old sanbox, that's not all that cool. If the kids in the sandbox don't want other kids to come play in the sandbox, then they probably shouldn't build their new sanbox at another school's playground.

Still even more, if this game winds up sucking after all, who really loses? Not the EVE people because they are loyal to that. Not the PS3 noob Dusty that has his repertories of better games. The people who get screwed are the PS3ers who tirelessly strived to build their kills and corporations only to never reap ANY REAL fruits of their labor due to a system skewed toward the FEW. And, CCP gets screwed because they get a bad reputation with the PS3 (console) crowd and hardcore FPS folks are so unforgiving that many of them will turn their backs on any product offered in the future. Even if that product were free money and attractive mates, the FPS bunch will be skeptical.

The ultimate losers will be those who insisted on having the system skewed in their favor. For it will be those people that remain so delusional as to think they are actually are actually having fun, playing alone in the new sandbox.

This is basically the suggestion I made in the first place. The "loot district" option seems like a nice addition though, that could really mix up the playing field. And it would make a way for non-landholder Corps who don't have the manpower to have an impact on the starmap.

You're assuming the "upstart" small Corps need to have an equal say in the matter.

We don't have enough unique players sharing the same timezone for a district to be practical without having reliable merc support. At least in the early days, we expect to see ourselves ONLY working as mercs, or being hired to perform disruption attacks, breaking someone's supply routes and forcing them to pay extra (potentially sacrificing clones to the vagaries of space travel) to reinforce a district that would have been easily held without our involvement. Maybe - MAYBE - we'll get some support, join an Alliance, or otherwise get our Corp into a situation where it's practical to hold one district. We're a tight-knit gaming clan that started outside of DUST, and has no inherent loyalty to the game. We plan to stay small - and not just within DUST, but in general, so being a major player in New Eden won't happen, although as part of an Alliance, we might have more impact than our own personal landholding. If DUST fails, we'll move on. If not, we'll have a stable group of players here for the long-haul. Maybe we'll always be mercs with no true home. Maybe we'll have a growing impact as time goes on.

As PC and the related systems backing it are expanded, and move into NullSec (we're getting LowSec to start with), maybe there will be incentives to the larger Corps abandoning their LowSec territory when NullSec is introduced.

Just like PC will reduce the pubstomping in instant battles, NullSec should reduce the blue donut effect in LowSec PC. And LowSec PC needs to be brutal and chaotic and I look forward to seeing DUST players shape more than just a single region of New Eden.

Upstart small corps need to be good enough or rich enough to earn foothold in PC as either mercenaries, part of an alliance or renters. This is the leveling up your corporation side of the RPG, deal with it.

If you want to be hand held into all parts of the endgame, find a shallow parallel universe. Do not ask this one to be nerfed.

Lastly, if you consist in your thinking that this game needs to cater to small and weak entities, the big ones will just split to bypass any limitations.

EDIT: I'm really sorry to be rude and I mean no disrespect. I want New Eden to stay harsh, because of it being just that makes it tenfold more intriguing than any game world ever created.

RE: #337

Apparently you don't comprehend either. Its the overall participation in the game period, not just your beloved PC that is going to suffer. I, and several others have thrown ideas out in the open not just in this thread but elsewhere. So, where on earth here AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN do you offer any ANYTHING at all to make the game better. That's right, you don't want it to be any better cuz ur just a suck tit on here.

My intitial idea, presented in #256 and my only question #258, were posted on here AFTER reading through the thread extensively. Now, I may miss a couple things here and there, but I do TRY to comprehend the material put forth. Its called listening with the intent to understand, rather than with the intent to reply. My posts #s 273, 276, 279, 300, 313, 324, 327, 330, 334 all explain my position in response to some one saying the same kind of bs you are saying, and in the same tone.

If everything's fine by you, that's your opinion. But here again, is a case of some pretentious fanboy chiming in on the opinions/feedback of others. I stated earlier that I would wait and see what the build has to offer like everyone else. Also stated that me and my group were prepared to accept being low level hookers I mean mercs. We have always been approaching it realistically so get over yourself.

The feedback people give on here was asked for, was it not? You seriously want to talk about spouting nonsense in the forum, rather than recruiting and extending diplomacy? When I just said, in the very post above yours, that we are growing our numbers and have made allies in both games. We have accepted it for what it is, we ARE willing to fulfill whatever role is needed by our allies and potential allies.

See, the difference is, you all are concerned with EVE being 'nerfed' or whatever. I completely understand and would feel the same way if I had invested that kind of time into an online RPG. What I don't think you understand, is the basic battle dynamic of DUST is the definition of nerf, or duplo, whatever, to the majority of shooter fans. Heck, there's passive SP! What's more novice than that? Hence, the RPG aspect will be the only thing carrying it if FW doesn't prove worth while, if alternatives for pub matches aren't offered, if there is to be no co-op vs, AI aspect.

I was never saying that it WOULD be possible to own all 250 districts, I never said that a 5man or 20 man corp SHOULD be able to go toe-to-toe with a corp of 500. What I am saying is at least humor people. At the very least. THIS TO GET MORE PEOPLE TO PLAY DUST. NEW PEOPLE. MORE PEOPLE. MORE IDEAS. REASONS WHY CERTAIN IDEAS WON"T WORK. See that nonsense? Is it plain enough English?

If people are just supposed to 'swallow their pride' and join up with the big guys, don't lead them to believe, that they need to lead their members and new recruits to believe, that their particular group has an opportunity. Because they don't have an opportunity and NEVER HAD an opportunity to begin with if they have to 'swallow their pride' and join another group in order to be involved. And at that point, how involved are they? That group of 67 that 'swallowed their pride'. Now at the lowest ranks in a group of 875.

He who possesses the ability to 'swallow' his pride, likely has very little to begin with.

I'm going to see what all the new build offers in and outside of PC and then maybe I will form a different outlook on future participation from new people. Until then I will continue advocate for the small corp even though my corp is SUPPOSEDLY about to become a 'megacorp'.

Now I think that I provided some constructive feedback throughout these failed attempts to make the blind see. I think most of the concerned have done the same. The only ones I see 'bitching' are the ones not providing constructive feedback, but instead 'bitching' about someone giving a rational opinion. An opinion btw, that is asked for not only in the first post of this thread, but upon the release of a beta.

NEW PEOPLE. MORE PEOPLE. DUST WANTS MORE PEOPLE. DUST NEEDS MORE PEOPLE. KEEP THE NEW PEOPLE.

f the idea of utter domination without competition sounds like fun, then maybe those folks should just beat their wives instead of playing a game.(quote)


thanks ive done this. my wife hates you!

It's kinda a **** move but i'm not going to look for your answer to my question i feel if you could spend the 20-30mins to say all this you could answer the only thing i want to know. how to we make PC for new people? if it was never really intended for new people. that seems to be your main point i scanned of most of this so if i'm wrong correct me. how is a new person that start's out with what 500k sp suppose to do PC at any level? i don't get your point. you say it's not about small corps just what am i missing then.

#256 was what I threw out there. Took me about 5-10 min of thought to just throw that one out there. IDK if something like that is even feasible. It was just an idea I had to give the upstarts or small guys some incentive. And, some one might have to explain to me why something like that couldn't work as afr as the integration to EVE would pertain to it. Just a random brainstorm.

What's to stop it from getting worst? What I mean by that is I consider small based on the largest corps to be 1-100 members medium would be 101-300 large is 301-1000+ now just using this model how is it fair for the 1 man corps to face the 100 man corps? The 100man corps would farm that tier then to have the 100vs the 300 you get my point? So I don't understand how ur tier system would work I might miss understand what you meant. And what's to stop farming to happen with this? Like I said I not sure this is the system your suggesting its just what I understand u to mean. Now how is that going to be better? And how would what what happen if a corp had one too many member and moved to the next tier? Or a director kick enough members to take them the next bracket down I see too much room for error and no benefit but please clarify.

Ok read the first paragraph and stopped. Your idea is bases on numbers. It's just breaking it down to a small form of what is already here IMO. Just taking that idea you threw together level 1 is 1-50 again we have the issue your talking about with PC just on a much smaller scale. I'll put it in prospective again if I'm wrong simply say so. But the 50 person corp would be like the PRO they have more members to take more planets so on and so forth then we have the say my corp 100 members on on this scale say we have 5 members how do we compete how do we get our foot in the door where is our incentive? I'm not being a troll I honestly just want to understand ur point.

Ok read the first paragraph and stopped. Your idea is bases on numbers. It's just breaking it down to a small form of what is already here IMO. Just taking that idea you threw together level 1 is 1-50 again we have the issue your talking about with PC just on a much smaller scale. I'll put it in prospective again if I'm wrong simply say so. But the 50 person corp would be like the PRO they have more members to take more planets so on and so forth then we have the say my corp 100 members on on this scale say we have 5 members how do we compete how do we get our foot in the door where is our incentive? I'm not being a troll I honestly just want to understand ur point.

What's to stop it from getting worst? What I mean by that is I consider small based on the largest corps to be 1-100 members medium would be 101-300 large is 301-1000+ now just using this model how is it fair for the 1 man corps to face the 100 man corps? The 100man corps would farm that tier then to have the 100vs the 300 you get my point? So I don't understand how ur tier system would work I might miss understand what you meant. And what's to stop farming to happen with this? Like I said I not sure this is the system your suggesting its just what I understand u to mean. Now how is that going to be better? And how would what what happen if a corp had one too many member and moved to the next tier? Or a director kick enough members to take them the next bracket down I see too much room for error and no benefit but please clarify.

Well, that's where I am saying that I was never trying to envision the 5 guys burgers and fries competing or sustaining in PC. Now if there were say like some 8 v. 8 districts then maybe a group that small would have a snowballs chance at holding one. If the battle is 16 v 16, then I think all could assume that 16 is the MINIMUM of what you want to go in with. So, if you were going in with 5, you must be some real bad mama jamas that doo doo ISK.

The casual part of this blows. I've been including that in my stances. I think that's why we're seeing so many that are disappointed with the proposed initial build of PC.

Start selling it as RTS makes it more attractive then selling it as RPG. I don't play EVE at the moment, I was going to get a trial membership to see whats up with it but, in all sincere honesty, after spending some weeks interacting with the condescending part of the community on here, I decided against it.

And my calm response is in response to the extension of civility that is hard to come by in forums. Not just this forum, but any forum attached to a game. So, I apologize to those I may have snapped at.

Thinking out loud here (probably many holes in this idea but lets start a discussion anyway). What if you decide you cannot play at the next attack window you could defer it until the following day but it extends the reinforce by an hour. Potentially stacking multiple times so you could push your reinforce out to say the weekend but over a longer window.

You would also need to sacrifice the clone regeneration and EVE bonuses for that time period.

The reason for the clone sacrifice would be to balance against the district only being vulnerable for attack once over a long window versus multiple times over the days you just skipped. Although there is probably a middle ground that could be met by having reduced generation rather than 0.

The other idea we have talked about is to prevent an attacker from re-attacking immediately if they lose. It would give defenders some breathing room if we find PC becoming too much of a grind but it would make conquering a district a lot more difficult since you basically need to win multiple consecutive attacks. We'll have a close eye on how all this plays out post launch to see if something like that is required.

Corporations don't matter at the Planetary Conquest level.
Alliances are how any sort of sovereignty of any sort works. For individual corp focused play, Faction warfare.

Now the way to ensure a wide range of alliance sizes can get involved and stay involved in Planetary Conquest is to have a range of planet sizes where small planets have lower rewards and payouts but are also easier to defend as they require less legwork and fewer total people for defense.
CCP has a system like this in place if i'm not mistaken. A planet with only 4 districts has only 4 times it can be attacked and therefore takes fewer total people to defend, the planet also only has 4 districts to produce income from. These planets need to be appealing enough that smaller alliances will want them, or large alliances will allow them to be taken and held by member corps as they are too much hassle to bother with as an alliance as a whole.

The major planets need to have a lot of districts and thus a very large profit potential. These planets are much easier to run with enough manpower because you have more districts to upgrade and move clones around between, you also have more attack windows so you need more people to properly defend it.

Small corps should not succeed in PC. PC is meant to require coordination, diplomacy, and organization. A "small poor corp" is exactly the sort of group that shouldn't be in PC. They can band with other groups whether they are a ton of small groups or a larger group, whatever, they can join an alliance and participate and still maintain their community and feel. PC is so appealing to many because of the fact that it requires time and effort and teamwork to do properly. This invested time makes it feel important and it becomes a significant accomplishment.

For those who don't understand the purpose of holding districts, if each district base produces 100 clones per day and each clone is worth 80k, then you make in profit 8million isk per day that your clone limit is full.
Now if you hold a small planet, 4 districts, that planet earns you 32 million isk per day.

32 million isn't a huge number but when you think about it month wise, which is still fairly short term, that is 960 million isk per month from holding only 4 sectors.
The rewards are most certainly there.

With these numbers a won match will give you 12 million ISK at a minimum. 80k ISK in biomass * 150 clones lost.

On top of that you get both standard ISK payout and loot. The loot will for the most part be useless until we get trading though, but the standard ISK payout can easily exceed 1 million ISK per player, if the other team is in full prototype gear.

So overall each player on the winning side are guaranteed to get at least 1,75 million ISK, if the other team is in full prototype gear. They might even get more than that, since the standard ISK payout might be bigger than what I outlined. On top of that there will be loot (which will be more or less useless to start with).

is this isk gained from biomass auto distributed to the corp member who fought in the battle. as a vehichle specialist i really only care about how it will effect my own person assets to regularly use my machines in defense of district in pc. 1-2 mill per battle would be nice.

That post is actually slightly wrong because we do not get regular ISK payouts in PC matches. On the other hand though, I found out you get biomass for the clones you lose yourself as well.

So all in all, if you win you'll probably get around 20 million ISK, which will be distributed evenly to the players in the match (if they played the same amount of time), so each player on the winning team would get 1,25 million ISK.

On top of the ISK you'll get loot as well, but you need some sort of trading to make use of that most likely.