With these numbers a won match will give you 12 million ISK at a minimum. 80k ISK in biomass * 150 clones lost.

On top of that you get both standard ISK payout and loot. The loot will for the most part be useless until we get trading though, but the standard ISK payout can easily exceed 1 million ISK per player, if the other team is in full prototype gear.

So overall each player on the winning side are guaranteed to get at least 1,75 million ISK, if the other team is in full prototype gear. They might even get more than that, since the standard ISK payout might be bigger than what I outlined. On top of that there will be loot (which will be more or less useless to start with).

With these numbers a won match will give you 12 million ISK at a minimum. 80k ISK in biomass * 150 clones lost.

On top of that you get both standard ISK payout and loot. The loot will for the most part be useless until we get trading though, but the standard ISK payout can easily exceed 1 million ISK per player, if the other team is in full prototype gear.

So overall each player on the winning side are guaranteed to get at least 1,75 million ISK, if the other team is in full prototype gear. They might even get more than that, since the standard ISK payout might be bigger than what I outlined. On top of that there will be loot (which will be more or less useless to start with).

The biomass ISK payment replaces the normal ISK payment you get from instant battles.

So biomass + loot + possible stolen clones going to the corp

Just read post #32 (my bad)

Can we get a Dev to confirm that if you win. you get all of the following:
1. "Standard" or "Regular" ISK payouts like we see in pub matches
2. ISK from the Biomass of clones
3. Loot from the battle

Can you confirm that a winning player is likely to walk away with about 1.75m ISK?

Apologies for being so dense.

That's not what you answered the other day?

Now it won't be worth it? 12 million ISK is nothing.

You can't really use the loot for this math until we get trading. Clones stolen makes up for the clones lost in the battle, and is not a profit for the individual in the match.

With only 12 million split on the 16 players, the individual will be at a huge ISK loss each battle.

80m ISK / 16 man tema = 5m ISK per person. Most people can get 5m ISK in about 2/3 nights worth of pubs...

Where did I say what?

true only if pubs were actually fun to play atm
fighting other corps is the only fun thing in dust atm

So what we are going to do is let you always at any time buy clone starter packages from Genolution. So go ahead, grab as many districts as you think you can hold, but you will have to defend them or you are just going to lose them and have spent the initial ISK for nothing.

Q) Can starter packs of clones be used on your own district?
A) If you feel like spending all that ISK, yes.

Im sorry but you are wrong in that assumption, you assume that with the current flawed way of corporations getting isk ( by donation) works with everyone polling in, but thats not the case as there are no doubt some cheap members in any corp and also i have no way to track who has donated (this seriously needs to get implemented).Without taxes and just relying in the good faith of all the corp members any small to medium corp (mine is i think at 35 members) is at a risk of not getting the isk needed to start in PC. And as you just said "for corporations that have enough active members", by active you cant infer donations. Im sorry for the rant but all i see is mega corps and alliances who already are rich beyond my wildest ideas just getting richer, and small corps who arent able to get donations but have active members, completly out of one of the strong points of why me and certainly many players have kept playing Dust, for not what it is now, but for what it can become.

My post #32 does that no?

The only ISK payment from a match is the number of clones destroyed * biomass value.

Keep in mind the losing side needs to lose a minimum of 150 clones, but the attackers are going to lose clones killing those and they are added on top.

So say you win. You kill 150 clones and lose 100 doing it. That is 250 clones killed at a rate of 80,000 ISK. That is 20M ISK divided by 16 players for 1.25M ISK per player.

On top of that you get 50% of the loot from the other team.

true only if pubs were actually fun to play atm
fighting other corps is the only fun thing in dust atm

Disagree

Taxes will help and I hope are added into the game, but if your corp can sustain itself without taxes than you may need to rethink you management style.

If you can't get your corp to pull together 80m ISK than you need to either reconsider your corps involvement with PC or start recruiting.

80m ISK / 16 man tema = 5m ISK per person. Most people can get 5m ISK in about 2/3 nights worth of pubs...

Foxfour, im sorry but i dont think you are getting my point. We (corporations) have a flawed way of getting isk, donations arent the answer, taxes are. Until that and as i said before, relying on the charity of enough players wont get small corps, poor corps, into PC.

I didn't know the clones the winners lost would count as biomass reward as well. That makes it slightly higher than 12 million ISK, but I still don't think that's enough of a reward to the winning side.

Also you said (or implied) that we would have standard ISK payouts in this post (my biomass number is actually wrong in thread, just ignore that):

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=667045#post667045

Money sinks will never work in dust or eve why... Because this game is all about getting as much isk as possabile so why would Anyone take part in a isk sink it. defeats the whole core of eve

so nobody else is bothered by the : You win, you're stuck.
Nobody else thinks inter-region fights are gonna be discouraged by the offered "Counter Attack Day" due to the lock after a district is taken ?

Taking a district should prompt the corp with a "'congrats ! you took the district. So, what RT would you like ?"

Yes, thank you. I was in the middle of my post when you replied and then I went back in to edit my fail.

Well, someone beat me too it.

The absence of corporation management tools and interface has been an ongoing irritation. Pertinent to this discussion is:

-the inability to set tax rates
-the inability to track player donations
-the inability to set roles and limit access to the main wallet while preserving other helpful abilities of directors (the only role available)
-the inability to email your corporation en masse (unless you have an EVE side director or CEO -even then you have to do a work around).

CCP you have done very little to enable corporations to manage and develop their economic interests and I feel that your internal calculations about PC required a lot of unjustifiable presumptions.

At a minimum, you have just raised the entry requirements to PC in a way that disadvantages small and medium sized corporations (assuming an even donation rate across the player base).

My apologies for the confusion, I appear to have misread your post.

We will keep an eye on how these things go post launch and continue to balance the numbers. Hopefully with how open we have been with this design we have proven we are willing and able to make changes based on feedback. That won't stop with the launch of planetary conquest on May 6th. Our roadmap specifically has balancing and iterating on Planetary Conquest as something we continue to do post release.

I assume the 1 hour window will remain the same so if you were able to attack in that window, you should be able to defend in that window until you are prompted to change the attack window. (am I missing the question?)

Factional Warfare fights are going to become a much bigger thing with Uprising and, we hope, be used a lot more for this sort of thing when not fighting corporation battles for planetary conquest.

Warning: I ramble a lot and I often dont make sense.



I am seriously conflicted about what this means.

I like how, with the new price, it makes it so if you are a large corp with a lot of ISK and you decide to just start throwing your money at something the game will happily let you and it might work for the short term. Having districts maxed out with clones right off the bat (or close to it) If you decide to do it is a good way to ensure you can hold said district (at least for a day or two). Its a shortcut based on spending far more ISK than is sane, which I dont mind as long as it cant be kept up forever (in which case its annoying).

I am worried about what this does to smaller corps trying to get their feet wet. I know you said you will be watching this. But I guess a good question is why do you only have the one clone pack to buy? Why not have two packs. A Starter Genolution Pack, usable only if you dont have a district yet and at a cheaper cost (Maybe not 20M, as that might be a little low but still lower than 80M). And then a Standard Genolution Pack at 80M ISK than can be used even with a district. It should lower the barrier to entry a little while still making it tough to buy your way into a huge foothold.

I really dont like how.. based on my understanding of the Clone Packs, Someone could purchase a clone pack at any point and by using it to attack could then bypass the attrition rate. Anywhere could be attacked by anyone regardless of where they are located in the region without suffering from the normal limitations of attrition. I dont think allowing someone to just pay ISK to bypass normal limitations is a good thing. If you use the Genolution clone pack to attack someone at least have it suffer some kind of attrition based on the nearest district you own (unless you dont own one).

Spending isk to spead up the process of getting clones where you have them? or expanding faster? I am Okay with that. Its a game about mercs. Spending more money should be able to speed things along a little. Spending isk to be able to ignore a part of the game and strategy? And attack people you otherwise couldnt have attacked at all due to distance? Not okay with that.