Firstly, if they really back you, like for serious real, the big corp can transfer money to a member- "Bob". Bob can then join your corp, donate the money, and then transfer back to his corp. That's the method that Kain Spero was talking about for his money transfer service.

Second, this is New Eden. I suspect that they are using you as one of the "Baby" corporations. They let YOU foot the bill for a starter pack, knowing that they could mow you down in a heartbeat. This means one less shell corporation that they had to create under the old system.

nom nom nom

Not how it is, the backing we have is from a class act, he has proven to be on here and in game multiple times.

And if it did go down that way, shame on them but it wouldn't happen again

You can buy 10 Genolution clone's packs with 1 corporation, this is not sustainable anymore.

80M for 150 clones.
District produce 80 clones a day
A district can hold a maximum of 300 clones, hit in 2 days (without any attack), and earn your first million from the district (80x2 = 160 + 150 = 310, so 10x100,000 = 1M)
Always without any attack, 80 clones per day = 8M a day, you need 10 days to get your money back.

All thoose math without any SI.

This sounds good to me.

You can buy 10 Genolution clone's packs with 1 corporation, this is not sustainable anymore.

It's looking very likely we will introduce corporation tax, just a question of when.

Exactly.

I was demonstrating how easily the old system was abusable and how the new, higher hurdle (while a pain to small corps) is actually better for avoiding an instant NAP Fest in which three Kaiju Corps hold everything by May 13.

This update presents a huge problem-the unlimited starter packs kills the strategic aspect to PC that came with attrition. Before, this update, attrition presented a very cool strategic element into PC by limiting the range of across which an established corp could move. This would have forced corps to be strategic both in what districts they target and in what districts they take.

Now this strategic element is gone-players can just rain clone starter packs on any and all districts, anywhere that they are open. You might as well just scrap attrition altogether. This system makes surface research labs next to pointless. What was originally so cool about PC was that if you wanted said district 5 jumps away, but didn't want to give up those you had, you had to make a "bridge" between the two districts in order to reach the other district without paying the attrition cost.

Sadly now, this great strategic game mode, which could have been so cool will never be.

I made this post in the general forum, but I'll make it here too since its in response to the dev blog.

My concern is, the cost of individual clones makes the difference between gear costs negliable. A starter clone costs over 500k ISK. So this means, a clone with equipment would range between like 510k and like 1M or so.

Point is, the balance between proto gear and lower gear made sense when the price increase was 10k to like 500k, 50X price for an advantage. But when its simply 2X, it wouldnt remotely make ANY sense to not use proto gear.

So whats the point of the lower gear even existing? Are you really gunna suit a 500k clone with cheap gear, ever? This also means that any corp with half a brain will only allow soldiers who have enough SP to run proto gear to use their clones. So now, newer players are pretty much cut off from enjoying the meta aspects of the game.

PC was already going to be an ISK sink due to arms races. Youd be throwing your best gear at PC, regardless of it a dude could only fit an advanced suit or a proto. But now, if I'm a corp, theres no way Im letting me fight in PC cause I dont have the SP to use proto gear. And Im not putting 10-50k gear in a 500k clone.

Oh my God, my prayers were answered!! Thanks for that

Are you accounting for the loss of clones needed to send to take the shell corp district?

You're still missing my point though, yeah it does make it a little less attractive for big corps to take multiple districts but it makes it impossible for a small corp to take one at all.

While the starter pack allows you to strike anywhere

This tiny bit made me wonder... are the exact planets where PC is going to take place be announced prior to May 6th or we will have a stressed out gold rush in the 1st day with Corps having to very rapidly and in a rush make a very quick decision on what the best place to conquer is? Or alternatively reveal before the date and have corps investigate and consider best places to capture, maybe even with a few corps strategically coordinating, calling dibs, bluffing about where they'll go to attack first and other mental games?

This update presents a huge problem-the unlimited starter packs kills the strategic aspect to PC that came with attrition. Before, this update, attrition presented a very cool strategic element into PC by limiting the range of across which an established corp could move. This would have forced corps to be strategic both in what districts they target and in what districts they take.

Now this strategic element is gone-players can just rain clone starter packs on any and all districts, anywhere that they are open. You might as well just scrap attrition altogether. This system makes surface research labs next to pointless. What was originally so cool about PC was that if you wanted said district 5 jumps away, but didn't want to give up those you had, you had to make a "bridge" between the two districts in order to reach the other district without paying the attrition cost.

Sadly now, this great strategic game mode, which could have been so cool will never be.

This tiny bit made me wonder... are the exact planets where PC is going to take place be announced prior to May 6th or we will have a stressed out gold rush in the 1st day with Corps having to very rapidly and in a rush make a very quick decision on what the best place to conquer is? Or alternatively reveal before the date and have corps investigate and consider best places to capture, maybe even with a few corps strategically coordinating, calling dibs, bluffing about where they'll go to attack first and other mental games?

This would be good to know I was under the impression that the initial PC systems were going to be a small 6jumps apart !?

Is this not correct anymore/or never the case ? With the current news about the EVE Bonuses it sounds like PC is going to be spread throughout multiple systems null/low ?

Exactly.

I was demonstrating how easily the old system was abusable and how the new, higher hurdle (while a pain to small corps) is actually better for avoiding an instant NAP Fest in which three Kaiju Corps hold everything by May 13.

It looks to me, with this current system of clones costing much more and the attacker gaining so much when they win, that defending is almost pointless. Corps can just jump district to district and gain huge amounts of clones, ISK, and loot and not bother to risk losing it by defending a district. Since attacking can be so incredibly profitable, what does someone gain by holding a district, or even many districts in a system beyond gaining clones from unsuccessful attackers?

For attack to become profitable:
first, you have to win it
second, you have to win it with good margin (not to have pyrrhic victories)


About defending a district,
read the posts of people complaining Geno pack price. Getting those clones 'free' helps profitability.

1 low sec region that is not a FW region.

Are you intending to be using the Geno packs for all eternity?
CCP's announced intention is to guide people away from using Geno packs - once they have their own district.
At that stage every clone value can be estimated at 100k (the sell value).

100K reduces the problem quite a bit. Especially since biomass can be resold and you can steal clones. But im not entirely sure where the 100k number comes from. Why is that the estimated value?

Attribute Name Original Numbers New Numbers
Clone sell value 100,000 ISK --> No change!
Biomass sell value 50,000 ISK --> 80,000 ISK

100K reduces the problem quite a bit. Especially since biomass can be resold and you can steal clones. But im not entirely sure where the 100k number comes from. Why is that the estimated value?

On the contrary my experiences and those of some of my peers that skirmishes/corp battles on serious level are almost exclusively ending on clone count.

Source: Corp and tournament battles vs great corps (not to be named in this thread)



PC might change that though as it adds some emphasis on MCC control winning - good.
Also, while above being said clone count winning, I find it bit unlikely for corps to risk more clones than minimum loss.
Considering both those facts might prove interesting game balance!

It's looking very likely we will introduce corporation tax, just a question of when.

Dont forget that if you win as an attacker then you are locked, therefore you cant reinforce but you can be attacked. Now as I understand it you should get a chance to produce clones at the next reinforcement window because of the 24 hour minimum notice so you cant be attcked for nearly 2 days but you will remain locked until after attack with only the clones you brought with you and 1 production cycle.

which brings me to my point, that is your reason to bring more than the minimum loss number of clones so that you have a good number to defend with if you win but had high clone attrition.

This just occurred to me, and i'm just putting it out there to further the discussion. (devil's advocate, if you will)

if the problem with the 80 Mil entry point is that it is prohibitive to the smaller corps (and i agree with this point BTW, as i'm from one of those smaller Corps), how exactly will the tax help in the grand scheme or things?

i ask this because, should a tax be implemented, i assume it would not be dependent on the corp size. (ie. every corp will now have a tax levy) so the larger corps will be receiving the tax also. if you follow this to it's logical conclusion this would mean that a large corp will be increasing their revenues also, plus at a higher rate than the smaller corps, 'cus.... well they have more members to tax.

so how does this actually help the smaller corps? yeah they get to make ISK faster, but so do the Big Boys, and i'd assume they would be in an even better position to dominate after the influx of the new ISK tax.