This just occurred to me, and i'm just putting it out there to further the discussion. (devil's advocate, if you will)

if the problem with the 80 Mil entry point is that it is prohibitive to the smaller corps (and i agree with this point BTW, as i'm from one of those smaller Corps), how exactly will the tax help in the grand scheme or things?

i ask this because, should a tax be implemented, i assume it would not be dependent on the corp size. (ie. every corp will now have a tax levy) so the larger corps will be receiving the tax also. if you follow this to it's logical conclusion this would mean that a large corp will be increasing their revenues also, plus at a higher rate than the smaller corps, 'cus.... well they have more members to tax.

so how does this actually help the smaller corps? yeah they get to make ISK faster, but so do the Big Boys, and i'd assume they would be in an even better position to dominate after the influx of the new ISK tax.

I'm still concerned about larger corps with lots of resources being able to beat down a district by simple attrition. In other words, fighting a series of losing battles strictly for the purpose of reducing the number of clones on a district. If you can consistently kill 150 clones (which isn't hard if null cannon damage is adjusted so battles last 30 minutes or longer), you're going to wear down even a defender that manages to win every time. Sure it will be costly for you, but if you already have 5 or more districts you're producing enough clones that you'll never be putting one of your existing districts at risk of a gank. Meanwhile the defender is unable to reinforce because you're constantly locking the district with attacks (which I admit is a necessary mechanic, at least for a losing district).

For established corps with several districts, this will just be another part of gameplay, but for a new corp with only one or two districts, this means it will be nigh-impossible to get established if the other corp(s) on the planet are at all alert. Once you acquire a district, you'll simply get shut out of taking any more.

This just occurred to me, and i'm just putting it out there to further the discussion. (devil's advocate, if you will)

if the problem with the 80 Mil entry point is that it is prohibitive to the smaller corps (and i agree with this point BTW, as i'm from one of those smaller Corps), how exactly will the tax help in the grand scheme or things?

i ask this because, should a tax be implemented, i assume it would not be dependent on the corp size. (ie. every corp will now have a tax levy) so the larger corps will be receiving the tax also. if you follow this to it's logical conclusion this would mean that a large corp will be increasing their revenues also, plus at a higher rate than the smaller corps, 'cus.... well they have more members to tax.

so how does this actually help the smaller corps? yeah they get to make ISK faster, but so do the Big Boys, and i'd assume they would be in an even better position to dominate after the influx of the new ISK tax.

It will only affect the small corps.

The large corps will still grab 20-30 districts on opening day.

I don't see how this is any better, at least before it was going to be a total pain in the ass for corps to get multiple districts, now the flood gates are open.

I'm done with this topic now, agree to disagree but this only f**** the little guys.

I agree this change in effect ensured that only corps with a MINIMUM of 50 members has any chance to participate in PC. If the numbers work out to the attacker making around 1.25 mill isk for a successful attack for each of the 16 members why on earth would those 16 mercs ever consider investing 5 mill isk each to recoup 25% of their investment.

I really was looking forward to PC my corp has right under that 50 member mark but I honestly doubt we will participate in PC until we are at least double our present size and taxes are enabled.

Have fun big corps with the new mechanic made only for you.

This is a double post but hope to get a answer :



Tried to get a understanding of this, but its not easy, I have some few questions :


I buy a starter pack at 80mill and can take a unoccupied district yes? YES, you can take an unoccupied if one is available or choose the district you with to attack


A random very good corp can attack me at a time I decide by using timeinforcer , but I can loose all in 15min if they kill all our clones? YES, you set a 1 hour window of when your district is vulnerable to be attacked. If your district loses all of its clones then you no longer own the district.


The defender dont have any adventage then that attacker is loosing clones on the way to attack us? Kinda, Your district can have up to i think 450 clones, so if an attacker only lands with 150 clones, you can hopefully outlast them...


If I have have control in space can I call in OB as I am pleased, or is there a limit on it? I believe you still need to earn OB with war points and call them in as needed


So bottom line we put 80mil on the table and have nearly no advantage before the battle, is this how I should understand it? I do not believe that is a fair evaluation of the situation.

Sorry but I am to old to understand all the datasheet, hope you have time to answer this for me, as we are looking in to this. Thanks in advanced.Big smileBig smileBig smile

They are asking for Corp CEO's to be able to tax their own members because they have members who do not donate to the corp wallet.

ex: after a pub match, in your winnings, it will automatically take 5% and give to corp wallet. It is more an an internal corp management issue...

you set your own rate of tax or dont tax at all, ceo choice, balance between keeping corps members happy and keeping corp afloat

It's likely that corps are able to set their own Dust Tax rate.

Taxes, as you know, don't generate isk by itself.
The members have the same money etc.


This is only to help manage the fundraising.


It could be argued, but I'd say that

If you have 20 people you might be happy with 1 district. Two donaters giving 50M would be enough.

from a larger pool of people (eg 200) you are more likely to find enough individuals who donate over 50M. But, you might not necessarily be aiming for 10 districts. Rather, 3? In that case you could afford to have more lazy people in.


Taxes guarantee that corps get at least something

I'm still concerned about larger corps with lots of resources being able to beat down a district by simple attrition. In other words, fighting a series of losing battles strictly for the purpose of reducing the number of clones on a district. If you can consistently kill 150 clones (which isn't hard if null cannon damage is adjusted so battles last 30 minutes or longer), you're going to wear down even a defender that manages to win every time. Sure it will be costly for you, but if you already have 5 or more districts you're producing enough clones that you'll never be putting one of your existing districts at risk of a gank. Meanwhile the defender is unable to reinforce because you're constantly locking the district with attacks (which I admit is a necessary mechanic, at least for a losing district).

For established corps with several districts, this will just be another part of gameplay, but for a new corp with only one or two districts, this means it will be nigh-impossible to get established if the other corp(s) on the planet are at all alert. Once you acquire a district, you'll simply get shut out of taking any more.

Random Idea, Separate the clone packs into two different packs:

Genolution Colonization pack: 80m ISK

150 Clones
Corp can buy as many as they want. Can be placed anywhere in region
ONLY allowed to colonize unoccupied districts.

Genolution Assault pack: 20m ISK

150 clones
Can only be purchased if your corp has no districts.
Can assault anywhere in region
ONLY allowed to attack occupied districts.

I have different opinion on those things.
The state of newly captured district being locked is a good good thing.

It adds the element of caring how well I win that final capture battle, instead of 'if I get it no matter how bloody my new district is instantly easy to defend'.

Sure, it adds more fighting. But that's not bad, is it? Worse for the game would be that it would make sense to attack under very specific conditions.

It's looking very likely we will introduce corporation tax, just a question of when.

My last concern is this: I thought DUST was going to allow for merc corporations to have a role in PC without the desire to actually own districts. Basically the ability to be contracted out for defense or attacks to gain or protect distrcits for other corps, especially EVE corps without any feet on the ground.

Is this not the case?

If so, how will this aspect of it work? How will a corporation be able to act as a mercenary corp to defend or attack districts? Will they be using their own clones, or the clones of the corp they are working for?

Random Idea, Separate the clone packs into two different packs:

Genolution Colonization pack: 80m ISK

150 Clones
Corp can buy as many as they want. Can be placed anywhere in region
ONLY allowed to colonize unoccupied districts.

Genolution Assault pack: 20m ISK

150 clones
Can only be purchased if your corp has no districts.
Can assault anywhere in region
ONLY allowed to attack occupied districts.

Subcontracting corporations to help attack and defend is next on our roadmap for PC features.

You can also currently do this using squads, if you have one of your corp members create a squad and pull people from outside of your corp into the battle they can fight for you and will be paid their share of the biomass rewards if you win.

We actually will have a round table at Fanfest this year specifically dedicated to discussing this stuff. Discussing what DUST corporations need to manage their corporations and more than that what DUST players need to communicate and enhance the social experience. So if you know any DUST players coming to Fanfest please be sure to have them keep a lookout for that round table. :)

[/i]If I have have control in space can I call in OB as I am pleased, or is there a limit on it? I believe you still need to earn OB with war points and call them in as needed

So a medicore corp that is not super great in shoot in face will never get many enough WP to really get use of OB, that could mybe be the best card on hand for the defender. And the defending corp should be alowed to use OB more frequently if they have lined up ships in space, that would even out the battle.

If not what is the use of ships that can not fire and help you

If you turn it around IF a medicore corp have control in space they could attack a better corp that dont have it, it would be ok if the big corps also had to have EVE connection, if not they could get punished by a smaller corp with OB support.

Bones, you've moved from 'Last Concern' to 'Last Question(s)'.......
i suspect we should expect a 'Last Musing' and 'Last Query' next right? lol
(just messing with you dude! )

think of the "Precision Strikes" you have seen in pub matches. they are the militia type OBs you get if there are no EVE pilots to help you. if you have EVE ships in orbit that can accept your OB request, they can use bigger and better weapons for more destruction. THAT is the advantage of having EVE pilots helping you.

My last concern is this: I thought DUST was going to allow for merc corporations to have a role in PC without the desire to actually own districts. Basically the ability to be contracted out for defense or attacks to gain or protect distrcits for other corps, especially EVE corps without any feet on the ground.

Is this not the case?

If so, how will this aspect of it work? How will a corporation be able to act as a mercenary corp to defend or attack districts? Will they be using their own clones, or the clones of the corp they are working for?

Alt corps crop up and will get around that "no districts" restriction.

Genolution Assault pack: 20m ISK
150 clones
Can only be purchased if your corp has no districts.
Can assault anywhere in region
ONLY allowed to attack occupied districts.