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Announcement:Dev Blog: Planetary Conquest: An Update

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CCP Eterne C C P C C P Alliance 1263	Posted - 2013.04.05 13:32:00 - [1] - Quote Everyone here knows you're very excited for Planetary Conquest to be released in Uprising, as evidenced from the extensive feedback you gave us in response to the first blog. Now CCP FoxFour is back to talk about several of the changes we've made based on that feedback in his latest dev blog. Please provide all constructive feedback to the dev blog in this thread.


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 2885	Posted - 2013.04.05 13:32:00 - [2] - Quote reserved

Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 213	Posted - 2013.04.05 13:50:00 - [3] - Quote Cool.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 2885	Posted - 2013.04.05 13:51:00 - [4] - Quote Another question that comes up a lot: Q) Does attrition apply to clones being moved between friendly districts? A) Yes. The cost of a move, in both ISK and clones, is paid when moving clones between any districts. Added to the blogs FAQ.

Xander Mercy SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 100	Posted - 2013.04.05 13:53:00 - [5] - Quote so if the attacker loses, all the clones sent on the attack are lost even if you were to send like 250 clones since 150 are taken no matter what if you lose leaving you with 100 then the enemy takes 50% leaving you with 50 which then just die in the coldness of space. there should be a way to save those 50 clones if i'm doing this math right that is
Sven Lindblad Algintal Core Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.04.05 13:58:00 - [6] - Quote Is the lock on the district eternal or is it unlocked after some time?
Xander Mercy SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 100	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:00:00 - [7] - Quote Sven Lindblad wrote: Is the lock on the district eternal or is it unlocked after some time? i knew i forgot to ask something

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 2885	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:00:00 - [8] - Quote Xander Mercy wrote: so if the attacker loses, all the clones sent on the attack are lost even if you were to send like 250 clones since 150 are taken no matter what if you lose leaving you with 100 then the enemy takes 50% leaving you with 50 which then just die in the coldness of space. there should be a way to save those 50 clones if i'm doing this math right that is Those other 50 clones are lost in the destruction of the MCC.

KatanaPT Tech Guard 27	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:00:00 - [9] - Quote wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! sarcasm

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 2885	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:02:00 - [10] - Quote Sven Lindblad wrote: Is the lock on the district eternal or is it unlocked after some time? Not sure what you mean. When a district is captured it is locked until the next reinforcement timer. So for about 24 hours.



CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 2885	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:03:00 - [11] - Quote KatanaPT wrote: wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! sarcasm We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can.

Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2660	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:06:00 - [12] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: KatanaPT wrote: wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! sarcasm We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. ill admit it fucks up smaller corps they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 2885	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:11:00 - [13] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: KatanaPT wrote: wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! sarcasm We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. ill admit it fucks up smaller corps they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move We will keep an eye on all of this post launch and if that is actually the case we will make adjustments where needed. One of the things we looked at when choosing that price point was their ISK cost when compared to using your own clones with the attrition involved in moving distances. We wanted within the 6 jump limitation of moving clones from your own district for it to always be more worthwhile to use your own clones rather than buy a starter pack of clones. So post launch we have a lot of numbers we can tweak to try and get the right balance. :)


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 828	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:13:00 - [14] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: KatanaPT wrote: wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! sarcasm We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. ill admit it fucks up smaller corps they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move It will be challenging but not impossible. It's kind of like small corps in EVE saving up for their first POS. Its a big investment for them and at the same time very exciting. However unlike POS's provided you can field a strong 16 man team you have just as much chance of maintaining your district as the big guys.

KatanaPT Tech Guard 27	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:14:00 - [15] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: KatanaPT wrote: wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! sarcasm We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. Im sorry but you are wrong in that assumption, you assume that with the current flawed way of corporations getting isk ( by donation) works with everyone polling in, but thats not the case as there are no doubt some cheap members in any corp and also i have no way to track who has donated (this seriously needs to get implemented).Without taxes and just relying in the good faith of all the corp members any small to medium corp (mine is i think at 35 members) is at a risk of not getting the isk needed to start in PC. And as you just said "for corporations that have enough active members", by active you cant infer donations. Im sorry for the rant but all i see is mega corps and alliances who already are rich beyond my wildest ideas just getting richer, and small corps who arent able to get donations but have active members, completly out of one of the strong points of why me and certainly many players have kept playing Dust, for not what it is now, but for what it can become.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 2885	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:15:00 - [16] - Quote Rozo-D from r/dust514 asked if the EVE bonus would apply to POS at moons around the planet. Yes, we are not changing where you can anchor POS. I have updated the dev blog to indicate that the bonus applies to POS anchored at moons around the planet.

Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1271	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:15:00 - [17] - Quote I'll go into details later on but just one thing. Having a district being locked when it's captured strikes me as very very odd and not very rewarding at all... A corp that manage to take a district from an enemy will hardly get the chance to set the time of battle to the time they wish as the former owner will take advantage of this 24h lock time to strike back at a time he knows suits him better. So, you get a district, and you dont even have the luxury of defending it when you want ? This wouldnt be a problem if we all lived in the same part of the world. But when members of a corp will invest more time than usual in Dust 514 to steal a district of interest and fight at a unusual time, they wont have the chance to change the time they will defend it when they manage to conquer it ? Even after spending millions of ISK worth of clones and fee of genolution clone transport ? To be honest, i dont see the point in adding this. From the DB i understand it's to avoid corps taking a lot of district day one and switching their RT so massive time blocks are created instantly. This is all good and nice, but it will only work if people actually go and attack them. And with everything corps will have to do day one, there's a good chance that the first 24h will be pretty much fight free. And then, everyone will change its districts RT. But so be it. maybe this is a good idea when taking an unoccupied district. But for districts taken after an actual fight, i would have gone the opposite way and give the new owner a 24h free of fight period during which he could set RT peacefully. That sounds like the LEAST you should get from successfully assaulting a district. This has only one goal : Create and permanent war and flipping of districts. On the paper it sounds nice. But it may very well kill the persistence. As if you dont have a chance to hold one to what you own, then it's not persistence. it's just glorified corp battles with no meaning. Taking that district, losing it again, taking the other losing. Losing another one coz even when defending successfully, you end getting screwed. Not liking this even a bit. Rest of the changes, i already discussed. the change to clone generation is close to the 75 we were all already working on and wont change anything to the wear off effect of attackers on defenders. And wont rescue defenders when winning. So overall, PC becomes a "Go,dont think, attack" and then a "uh ? dont think. strike back" mode. It will become an ISK sink.
KatanaPT Tech Guard 27	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:16:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: KatanaPT wrote: wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! sarcasm We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. ill admit it fucks up smaller corps they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move It will be challenging but not impossible. It's kind of like small corps in EVE saving up for their first POS. Its a big investment for them and at the same time very exciting. However unlike POS's provided you can field a strong 16 man team you have just as much chance of maintaining your district as the big guys. Foxfour, im sorry but i dont think you are getting my point. We (corporations) have a flawed way of getting isk, donations arent the answer, taxes are. Until that and as i said before, relying on the charity of enough players wont get small corps, poor corps, into PC.
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 681	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:22:00 - [19] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: In this example I have smartened right up, trained more skills, practiced against others, bought the right gear, and am going to win: I attack your district with 150 clones. Your district has the full 300 clones and a production facility which generates 100 clones per day. I win by MCC destruction and only lose 50 clones in the process, because I am now pro. The defender lost 100 clones during the battle. Because I won the defender does not generate their 100 clones on the next reinforcement cycle. They would have generated 100 clones though so I get 50 of them; 50% of what would have been generated. I return home with 150 clones, plus ISK from the biomass, and plus loot from the battle. Don't the defenders lose an additional 50 to the ether for the min clone loss?
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2662	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:23:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: KatanaPT wrote: wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! sarcasm We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. ill admit it fucks up smaller corps they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move It will be challenging but not impossible. It's kind of like small corps in EVE saving up for their first POS. Its a big investment for them and at the same time very exciting. However unlike POS's provided you can field a strong 16 man team you have just as much chance of maintaining your district as the big guys. Have u played DUST? it is a big investment.......in ur patience and tests ur willpower not to murder someone or punt babies. Pubs are absolutely HORRIBLE and BORING. Skirmish 2.0 is TERRIBAD atm. (should look at my Skirmish 2.0 needs urgency feedback /shameless plug) Also most small corps (no offense to the small guys trying to look out for u here) wont have a top strong 16 that can hang with the big name corps then the bigger zerg corps can also slowly grind them out by using multiple districts' clones to attack their 1. Also WHAT small corp will want to spend 80M they spent 2 weeks grinding for to get kicked right back out again to go grind 2 weeks of lolpubs ISK again? kinda turning off the little guys imo but thats just my view, want as many ppl as possible to have a chance to compete and not have this turn into a donut fest

Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 595	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:23:00 - [21] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: KatanaPT wrote: wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! sarcasm We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. ill admit it fucks up smaller corps they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move That was my thought as well until I started doing the math. I'm a crappy player and I've got about 20M ISK in the bank. My corp would need a total of 16 members giving 5M each to buy a clone pack. If my corp can't field 16 members (one battle platoon) who can donate 5M, then we probably shouldn't be in PC. --- On the other side of the coin... Let's say that I'm a big shot player in a "Kaiju Corp" with 100M ISK in the bank. My corp has 200 members and we're going to PUBSTOMP you scrubs in PC!!! ahem (RPing there) Most of the 200 members of my corp probably don't have 100M ISK in the bank. Sure, I can fund a clone pack myself, but only once. The rest of the top 10 players in my corp can do the same. Then we need to start asking for donations from our own rank-and-file (just like the little guys). As a result, our elite players can fund 10 district takeovers on D-Day. Our rank-and-file, assuming that all 190 of them give 5M each, can fund another 11-12 clone packs. That means that on D-Day we can, at best, fund 22 district takeovers. Under the old system, we could have funded four times as many using shell corps (88 districts). Under the old system, only THREE of the big Kaijus could have conquered all of the available 250 districts on D-Day. Under the new system, there will be space for a minimum of twelve corporations involved in PC.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2662	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:24:00 - [22] - Quote KatanaPT wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: KatanaPT wrote: wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! sarcasm We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. ill admit it fucks up smaller corps they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move It will be challenging but not impossible. It's kind of like small corps in EVE saving up for their first POS. Its a big investment for them and at the same time very exciting. However unlike POS's provided you can field a strong 16 man team you have just as much chance of maintaining your district as the big guys. Foxfour, im sorry but i dont think you are getting my point. We (corporations) have a flawed way of getting isk, donations arent the answer, taxes are. Until that and as i said before, relying on the charity of enough players wont get small corps, poor corps, into PC. THIS! FFS where is the taxes already? donations isnt a good way to get ISK
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 595	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:26:00 - [23] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: It will become an ISK sink. This is the purpose of DUST. If you go back to the earliest announcements, CCP was very particular that they wanted Dust to suck money out of EVE once the two economies were interwoven.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 2885	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:27:00 - [24] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: In this example I have smartened right up, trained more skills, practiced against others, bought the right gear, and am going to win: I attack your district with 150 clones. Your district has the full 300 clones and a production facility which generates 100 clones per day. I win by MCC destruction and only lose 50 clones in the process, because I am now pro. The defender lost 100 clones during the battle. Because I won the defender does not generate their 100 clones on the next reinforcement cycle. They would have generated 100 clones though so I get 50 of them; 50% of what would have been generated. I return home with 150 clones, plus ISK from the biomass, and plus loot from the battle. Don't the defenders lose an additional 50 to the ether for the min clone loss? Yes, it just made no difference to the calculation so I didn't include it. I shall go back and add it though. :)

Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 596	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:30:00 - [25] - Quote So... What region is PC starting in?

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 2886	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:31:00 - [26] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: So... What region is PC starting in? Probably a low sec one.

Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2662	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:32:00 - [27] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: It will become an ISK sink. This is the purpose of DUST. If you go back to the earliest announcements, CCP was very particular that they wanted Dust to suck money out of EVE once the two economies were interwoven. then whats the point of corps in dust with no EVE backing even trying to play? again.....screws the little guy
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 405	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:34:00 - [28] - Quote KatanaPT wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: KatanaPT wrote: wow, from 20mil to 80mil per clone package... neat way to get the smaller corps completly out of PC, thanx guys! sarcasm We did the math and for corporations that have enough active members to play planetary conquest they should be able to afford this price. It might take them a week or so to get the ISK from scratch, but they can. ill admit it fucks up smaller corps they will already have a hard time holding 1 district the price for re-entry should they get the boot will keep them out which imo is a bad move It will be challenging but not impossible. It's kind of like small corps in EVE saving up for their first POS. Its a big investment for them and at the same time very exciting. However unlike POS's provided you can field a strong 16 man team you have just as much chance of maintaining your district as the big guys. Foxfour, im sorry but i dont think you are getting my point. We (corporations) have a flawed way of getting isk, donations arent the answer, taxes are. Until that and as i said before, relying on the charity of enough players wont get small corps, poor corps, into PC. Disagree Taxes will help and I hope are added into the game, but if your corp can sustain itself without taxes than you may need to rethink you management style. If you can't get your corp to pull together 80m ISK than you need to either reconsider your corps involvement with PC or start recruiting. 80m ISK / 16 man tema = 5m ISK per person. Most people can get 5m ISK in about 2/3 nights worth of pubs...
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 462	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:35:00 - [29] - Quote With these numbers a won match will give you 12 million ISK at a minimum. 80k ISK in biomass * 150 clones lost. On top of that you get both standard ISK payout and loot. The loot will for the most part be useless until we get trading though, but the standard ISK payout can easily exceed 1 million ISK per player, if the other team is in full prototype gear. So overall each player on the winning side are guaranteed to get at least 1,75 million ISK, if the other team is in full prototype gear. They might even get more than that, since the standard ISK payout might be bigger than what I outlined. On top of that there will be loot (which will be more or less useless to start with).
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 405	Posted - 2013.04.05 14:37:00 - [30] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: It will become an ISK sink. This is the purpose of DUST. If you go back to the earliest announcements, CCP was very particular that they wanted Dust to suck money out of EVE once the two economies were interwoven. then whats the point of corps in dust with no EVE backing even trying to play? again.....screws the little guy Dusters do not need EVE to do anything, they can fully operate without EVE. The point of corps will be to A. Have fun with people and B. Own Districts and beat up other corps...same as it always has been



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