There's no need for a tax because when you go over the clone limit on a district the extra clones are sold automatically which then funds your corp without needing to tax your members

I wish you guys would reconsider the starting price.

There's no need for a tax because when you go over the clone limit on a district the extra clones are sold automatically which then funds your corp without needing to tax your members

Well, someone beat me too it.

The absence of corporation management tools and interface has been an ongoing irritation. Pertinent to this discussion is:

-the inability to set tax rates
-the inability to track player donations
-the inability to set roles and limit access to the main wallet while preserving other helpful abilities of directors (the only role available)
-the inability to email your corporation en masse (unless you have an EVE side director or CEO -even then you have to do a work around).

CCP you have done very little to enable corporations to manage and develop their economic interests and I feel that your internal calculations about PC required a lot of unjustifiable presumptions.

At a minimum, you have just raised the entry requirements to PC in a way that disadvantages small and medium sized corporations (assuming an even donation rate across the player base).

So you don't see a use for a source of income not relating to PC for, oh I dunno, corps not involved in PC?

@KatanaPC & @xLTShinySidesx:

What terms are you using to define "small" and "niche" corps?

I agree with you that I want small and niche corps to be able to compete in PC. Scrap together 80m ISK and then with your elite niche players, hold your single district and use your alliance members to help you hold it like you said. You literally have over 30 days of playing before PC launches. If you truly wanted to be a part it, it seems very reasonable to me that each of your "dedicated" and "niche" corp mates can generate 10m ISK

(quotation marks were not used in a derogatory or demeaning way)

They don't have any way to share gear right now. What else would they spend it on?

This is why it was necessary:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=671394#post671394

Without the increase, the largest corps were going to be able to buy EVERYTHING on the first day by using shell corporations. This is not speculation- we already heard that a number of big boys were planning to do so.

This at least slows them down and gives a few other corporations a shot at getting a foot in the door.

The solution, from a small corp standpoint, is recruitment, leadership, and peer pressure.

If your corp can't raise 80M ISK, then you really didn't have a shot under the old system either.

I'm not trying to be mean, just accurate.

My corp has 35 members.
I cannot force a good player to donate, nor can i control when he did.

Pretty much this. Like FoxFour said, we've done the math. If your corp can't save 5-10 mil per player to pay for 2 or 3 starter packs then you probably can't sustain being involved in PC anyway.

We like that its a big group investment too, diplomacy and recruitment is as much a part of PC as the ground battle.

This is why it was necessary:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=671394#post671394

Without the increase, the largest corps were going to be able to buy EVERYTHING on the first day by using shell corporations. This is not speculation- we already heard that a number of big boys were planning to do so.

This at least slows them down and gives a few other corporations a shot at getting a foot in the door.

The solution, from a small corp standpoint, is recruitment, leadership, and peer pressure.

If your corp can't raise 80M ISK, then you really didn't have a shot under the old system either.

I'm not trying to be mean, just accurate.

I'll go into details later on but just one thing.

Having a district being locked when it's captured strikes me as very very odd and not very rewarding at all...
A corp that manage to take a district from an enemy will hardly get the chance to set the time of battle to the time they wish as the former owner will take advantage of this 24h lock time to strike back at a time he knows suits him better.

So, you get a district, and you dont even have the luxury of defending it when you want ?

This wouldnt be a problem if we all lived in the same part of the world. But when members of a corp will invest more time than usual in Dust 514 to steal a district of interest and fight at a unusual time, they wont have the chance to change the time they will defend it when they manage to conquer it ? Even after spending millions of ISK worth of clones and fee of genolution clone transport ?

To be honest, i dont see the point in adding this. From the DB i understand it's to avoid corps taking a lot of district day one and switching their RT so massive time blocks are created instantly. This is all good and nice, but it will only work if people actually go and attack them. And with everything corps will have to do day one, there's a good chance that the first 24h will be pretty much fight free. And then, everyone will change its districts RT.

But so be it. maybe this is a good idea when taking an unoccupied district. But for districts taken after an actual fight, i would have gone the opposite way and give the new owner a 24h free of fight period during which he could set RT peacefully. That sounds like the LEAST you should get from successfully assaulting a district.


This has only one goal : Create and permanent war and flipping of districts. On the paper it sounds nice. But it may very well kill the persistence. As if you dont have a chance to hold one to what you own, then it's not persistence. it's just glorified corp battles with no meaning. Taking that district, losing it again, taking the other losing. Losing another one coz even when defending successfully, you end getting screwed.

Not liking this even a bit.

Rest of the changes, i already discussed. the change to clone generation is close to the 75 we were all already working on and wont change anything to the wear off effect of attackers on defenders. And wont rescue defenders when winning. So overall, PC becomes a "Go,dont think, attack" and then a "uh ? dont think. strike back" mode.

It will become an ISK sink.

@KatanaPT & @xLTShinySidesx:

What terms are you using to define "small" and "niche" corps?

I agree with you that I want small and niche corps to be able to compete in PC. Scrap together 80m ISK and then with your elite niche players, hold your single district and use your alliance members to help you hold it like you said. You literally have over 30 days of playing before PC launches. If you truly wanted to be a part it, it seems very reasonable to me that each of your "dedicated" and "niche" corp mates can generate 10m ISK

(quotation marks were not used in a derogatory or demeaning way)

blame your member for being cheap

This is such a load of crap!!

If they would go back to one genolution pack for each corp if you don't own a district we don't have this problem.

But since they've made it unlimited genolution clones, you're right... All the big corps will snatch up all the districts day 1

they are having trouble with members benevolently donating to the corp (i assume)

What member? Imagine i have 10 guys in corp chat saying they donated 1mil each, and i go to corp walled and only saw 1mil donated. Shall i expel them all for lying? Promote them for being dirty bastars? Say thank you and go away? Im not saying you arent correct, which you are, you have nailed it in the head, too many players being cheap. But no way of controlling who isnt.

Please note the bolded and underlined phrase.

The big corps were going to found a million shell corporations that had 20M ISK in the bank and those shell corps were going to each buy ONE starter pack and take over ONE district.

They were then going to "lose" those districts to the "mother" corporation.

With trying to encourage people to donate, it would be nice if I could see a record of donations, and then keep those players in mind when the time comes for the actual corp battles.

If someone doesn't donate, you don't let them in your squads.

Currently I can't see. I can just ask and pray that people are honest.

This is such a load of crap!!

If they would go back to one genolution pack for each corp if you don't own a district we don't have this problem.

But since they've made it unlimited genolution clones, you're right... All the big corps will snatch up all the districts day 1

Most of our alliance corps have 4-25 recruits, we're the biggest with 44 members but only about 15 active players

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, just clear.

I do not see an "alliance" underneath your corporation name. That means you are in a "coalition".

Alliance has a very specific, game mechanics-driven definition in New Eden.

This! ....

That's fine but at least our small corps would be given the opportunity to get in, now we aren't which just makes the problem worse.

We have an alliance of 8 corps that are banded together to help defend our districts, with the 20 mil isk starting point, it would have been sustainable but at 80 it just isn't.

Correct, I'm just a little angry right now.