DUST Search - Dropship Flight School

All Channels

Rookie Training Grounds

Dropship Flight School

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:25:00 - [1] - Quote Before the Precursor build dropships were basically free aerial bumper cars used by snipers for quick jaunts to tower tops or by joyriders to squash infantry. They were as simple simple to operate as an amusement park ride and free which generated quite a bit of abuse by anyone with an inclination. That all changed in the current build. Dropships fight physics now closely match reality and mastering them requires a degree of player skill. Some lament the change and others applaud it. Both camps are completely right if you share their premise. Those folks who prefer the old model view DUST through the lens of a dedicated FPS player where the gun game is paramount and all else serves that end. For them a dropship is now an overly demanding tool for the shooter and is just not workable. The other camp views piloting as a separate and equal role to the ground pounding gunner. All primary roles need a mixture of player and character skill if they want to attract a dedicated following. Hardcore FPS players would scoff at a game that used heavy auto aim to remove any need for player skill in the gun game. Pilots are no less concerned with player skill. Talk to any real pilot for five minutes and this will come across very strongly, they are proud of having mastered flight. Precursor has defined piloting as a distinct specialty, one that I would like to welcome you into. There is however a valid objection to this change. These things ARE difficult to learn to fly on your own, and they cost a few hundred thousand ISK each. Together this makes flight training both frustrating and very expensive. Forcing us to train on a hot battlefield where half your concentration is spent watching out for shoulder launched missiles is just too much for some. My purpose for this thread is to help you learn to fly as easily and cheaply as possible. Hopefully you will graduate from the basic lessons with your original bird intact. I ask for your feedback on how well I have managed to accomplish this, and any tips you have on how to improve the guide. So if you are ready to fly, go purchase your first Viper, toss on some militia shield extenders, fit a militia armor rep on it and head out for practice. I strongly suggest you limit your initial flights to the spawn area in Skirmish. I have found this to always be an enemy free zone where I don't have to worry about getting shot down.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:25:00 - [2] - Quote Dropship Physics: You need to understand the physics of dropship flight before you advance the throttle for the first time. Your mental model of how the ship is going to react to control inputs has to match reality or you will crash and be very frustrated with the whole ordeal. A dropship is a pure vector thrust craft, and while it superficially resembles a helicopter, it's not exactly the same. It is also very much different than a fixed wing aircraft and any flight time you have in one will be an initial liability until you unlearn those reflexes. A dropship flys just like its distant cousin the lunar lander. Think of your dropship as a brick balanced on thrust. If you give it a shove it will drift along like an air-hockey puck until you push it another direction or it hits something. How do you give it a shove? If you tilt the ship part of the thrust holding it up will be directed away from the way the ship tilts and induce lateral movement. Of course that part is no longer supporting the ship against the vertical pull of gravity and the dropship is going to sink in proportion. Tilt just a little and you won't notice, but flip it ninety degrees and you will know just how a brick doesn't fly. You can maintain level flight by increasing thrust, at least up to the point you don't have enough power left in reserve. The more you tilt the more you need, and the higher you fly the less you have to spare. Response is best near ground level and very mushy at the ship's service ceiling where every bit of power is being used to maintain altitude. Unlike a fixed wing or rotary wing aircraft, a dropship has no wing and that will likely be the most difficult concept to internalize as a new pilot. This has a few implications you need to be aware of: 1) All other aircraft can trade forward motion for altitude, but you cannot. An airplane obtains lift via airflow over the wing. The faster it moves, the more lift it generates. If it is diving at he ground it can pull up and use that energy to climb. You obtain lift directly from your engines, and speed will not affect it. Want to climb? Increase your throttle, don't pull up. What happens if you panic and yank back? Well, part of the thrust that was holding you up was just redirected forward. Now you are sinking faster and moving slower (assuming you were flying forward). That isn't going to get you over the top of that building, though it may keep you from slamming into it. 2) All other aircraft can fly inverted, not you. They do it by generating lift with the other side of the wing, albeit less efficiently in most cases. You can flip your ship upside down, but now all that thrust is now aiding gravity so don't stay that way for long. This means you may perform a barrel roll, but it will resemble a squashed script "e" rather than a nice round "o". Aerobatic pilots actually use inverted flight over the top of an inverted maneuver such as an inside loop to stretch out that part of the maneuver, and as we just discussed you cannot. Don't expect to win a competition. 3) You cannot perform banked turns. This is really just an extension of the first point because a turn in a winged aircraft is just a climb with the lift directed inside the turn by rolling the craft before pitching up. This means that you will have to thrust just as hard and long to stop moving in a given direction as you did to get moving. No trading fast flight for a tight high G turn. You are skidding in the sky, not flying in the traditional sense. Wait you say, I did perform a banked turn! Ok, you can duplicate the flight path by rolling, yawing, and thrusting, but you are pushing with pure thrust and not making use of airflow to produce lift for the turn. If you are turning 180 you have also wasted time boosting to one side and then back again. Instead take advantage of your difference and just pirroet in place so you are flying backwards, then drop your nose and cancel your movement before heading back. This could keep you from straying into the red zone. Of course it also leaves you hanging motionless in space which could be good or bad depending on the tactical situation. 4) You can hover and change altitude with your throttle alone. This part is just like a helicopter.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:26:00 - [3] - Quote Flight Controls: The next thing to understand is how the controls work. The left stick controls pitch, push forward and the nose drops, pull back and the nose rises. Raising the nose directs some of the thrust in the forward direction, dropping it will direct some thrust back and accelerate you forwad. The left stick also controls roll, push to the left and you will tilt left and move left. Push right and you do the opposite. The right stick controls yaw. Push the stick right and the ship spins clockwise, left and the ship spins counter clockwise. This is the one control that won't significantly alter the amount of thrust keeping your ship up. Turning does tilt the craft though so you will need to compensate for the induced roll. Perhaps the most confusing control is the camera movement on the right stick because while it alters your sight picture of the ship it doesn't actually change the pitch. You can't fly the ship by changing the camera view, but you can easily confuse yourself into thinking that you did. At the start I suggest you avoid messing with the camera position. This may require conscious thought as it is easy to find yourself pushing in the vertical as you are adjusting yaw with horizontal movement of the stick. Later on you will be able to process an altered viewpoint without losing control.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:26:00 - [4] - Quote Your first few flights: The best way to learn is to boost up about ten feet over flat ground. This gives you an excellent frame of reference to judge speed and altitude and also affords you the opportunity to land quickly if you tire. The area behind your initial spawn in Skirmish is ideal as it should protect you from incoming fire and allow you to concentrate. You are better off without passengers to distract you, so warn them off or wait until teammates depart before calling your ship. You will be in 3rd person view upon entry. Leave it there for now. Start by rolling and skidding left, then stop and skid right. Keep your touch light light and fly slow. The ship will tend to yaw to one side, so stay on the right stick and nudge it to keep the nose pointing forward. Your goal is to keep the nose glued forward as you slide back and forth via smooth coordination of both sticks. Don't let yourself get low enough to drag on the ground or you may find yourself beached on your side. If that happens in a safe area you can just stay inside and wait for pickup at he end of the match and you won't lose your ship. If you need a break at any time just stop all movement and reduce thrust to set it back down. Next practice turning in place. You will see that the faster you turn, the more you need to compensate for induced roll. Start slow and build up speed as you get he hang of it. Remember, smooth coordinated flight gives your gunners a stable platform. You don't want to be yanking their sights off target and causing them to puke. Your reputation will ride on this. Next pitch down to slide forward and pull back to arrest your motion. Pirroet and return. Finally do the same in reverse. Your sight picture is at its worst in this maneuver and it's easy to hit objects so don't go too fast. That should keep you busy for your first few flights. Take it slow and methodically. These basic ground reference maneuvers will set the foundation for your flying career. If all went well you haven't broken a single bird. Intermediate maneuvers: You have mastered skidding around the sky on the four cardinal headings. Now you will mix them together. Set yourself up as before and skid forward to the right, stop, pivot, and repeat. Change it up and do the same thing to the left. The objective is to stay smooth and coordinated. Eventually you will stop thinking about your control inputs and the ship will become an extension of your will, going precisely where you picture. This is an exciting time for every student pilot. Clear the area and do the same in reverse. Now you are ready to land on a building or tower. I suggest you start with a shorter building where you will have more thrust in reserve. Boost up and slide on over to the roof. Remember, if you are below the roofline increase thrust, don't pull up. This is where all your practice pays off. Center over the roof, reduce throttle, and settle down. Congratulations! This is the point where you will want to start using the camera view shift to peek over the nose to make sure you are centered on the roof. Be aware that a direct overhead view makes it very difficult to judge roll and pitch. Hopefully we will be granted basic flight instruments in a future release to compensate. Do this until you feel comfortable, then head to the tall towers. It's all the same here except for less reserve power as you are near your service ceiling. You may feel the excitement of looking way down at the battlefield. If so you are hooked, welcome to the fraternity of pilots!
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:26:00 - [5] - Quote You and thirty nine of your buddies hang around objective Charlie, listening to chatter about the great firefight over objective Foxtrot and wishing you could just do some shooting of your own. -áInstead it's a boring garrison detail for you. Suddenly two fighters scream in, missiles impacting into your installations as they frantically search out the highly maneuverable craft with return fire of their own. -áAfter a mere sixty seconds your commander is screaming to the MCC for assistance as his last AV turret is blown up and what is left of his sensor net reports two inbound flights of dropships. -á About the time you spot one flight of five the missiles start raining down on your position from two directions at once. -áThe ground erupts as they slam into the outpost at a rate of twenty five per second. -áYour buddy manages to get off a swarm of his own, but the lead dropship just soaks up the damage as you see it spider linked to the others in its formation. -áMen are being shredded all around you as the two flights of five park right overhead. -áThe missile barrage ends and forty suits drop into your midst sowing instant chaos. -áYou fight a desperate battle, killing one after another, only to have them spawn over your head and drop again. -áYou go down, waiting for the spawn. -áQuickly you orient yourself to the fight only to be cut down by the door gunners facing outwards from the main battle. -áYou spawn again and manage to find cover, but you just can't make it back into the fight. -áA desperate rush just gets you cut down again. -áThis time you don't have a choice to reenter the fight, control is lost and you can't spawn there again. -áLess than four minutes from boredom to exile. Taking objectives requires boots on the ground, and there are only three ways to get there. -áA long boring hike, a jarring ride in an LAV through rough terrain or a quick trip in a dropship. -áCommanders are going to rely upon their dropship pilots to get the troops to the fight and provide close air support to take objectives. -áThe job isn't as sexy as flying a fighter, but without transport pilots war is a slow and dangerous hike through miles of hostile terrain. Up to this point we have been using dropships as attack ships rather than the troop transports they are, and that's why I see so many of them chased off or destroyed within a couple minutes of entering battle. -áIt's a role they aren't suited for, but lacking any other role we give it a shot. -áIt's like using a Huey with two door gunners to mow down infantry. -áAll too soon someone whips out a shoulder launched missile and it goes down. That will change as corporations form and larger units deploy. -áI personally dropped 4-5 infantry units on objective B at the start of my -áfirst corp battle this last weekend, and witnessed a scaled down version of the story above. -áI was guarding objective C with one other team member as the real battle raged over objective B. -áI checked my mini-map and scanned the horizon and saw no enemy. -áThen a call over coms, "They've called in a dropship!" -áHmm, I think to myself, I wonder how effective it will be shooting down at B? -áBefore I knew it, the damn thing was over my head and I saw six suits (complete with names) falling just in front of our position. -áI tossed grenades and started shooting, -ábut the two of us were overrun in seconds and they group hacked the objective, locking us out. -áThat is the true power of the dropship. In support of this I suggest that you practice smooth high speed travel and accurate placement and hover over an objective. -áAdditionally we should start practicing formation flight and experiment with spider shielding the formation. I can also foresee a formation of stealth ships uncloaking over an objective and raining down missiles as the first indication of their presence. There will be so much fun to be had by all.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:27:00 - [6] - Quote Surviving Combat Ok, you've mastered the basics of flight and you're itching to go out and earn some warpoints. -áHere are a few tips to be more successful. The most important trait you can cultivate as a pilot is situational awareness. -áFancy flying is great, but the best pilots never put themselves into a position that requires it. -áThat means knowing what and where the threats are and where your safe retreat zones are. -áYou can even lose track of your position on the map if it is filled with blowing dust. -áYou don't want to be mindlessly flying around in a lazy circle and suddenly notice half your shields are gone with no idea what did it, what the nearest route of escape is and where there are likely to be additional threats that can take you down before you escape. -áGood pilots make it look easy because they are constantly planning. -á Situational awareness starts with where you decide to call for your ship to be delivered. -áIs it open to sniping? -áAre there red dots that came come in and pop you with an AR before you can board your craft? -áAnd that goes for your gunners too. -áAre they standing around staring up into the sky with their mouths open or are they scanning the area for red dots? A great analogy is the game of pool. -áGood players can run the table, and great players make it look inevitable. -áWhy? -áBecause they meticulously planed the route they took around the table to avoid traps and always give themselves an easy next shot. -áPoor players think of only the next shot and find themselves boxed in without a second shot. -áYou notice that as a pilot when you are pinned up against a mountainside with no speed and a forge gunner taking you down. Don't be seduced by juicy targets. Keep asking yourself, "Where will I go if I get hit now?" and "What is the biggest threat for me right now?" -áThe kills will come if you keep your ship in the air. The next most important tip is to always keep moving. -áIt is fun to drift lazily over the battlefield and let your gunners get easy shots, but one forge gunner can ruin your day in moments. -áDon't give them a stationary target. -á Everyone knows that dropships can outrun swarms, but that doesn't make them a non-threat. -áIt's all too easy to find yourself slow and vulnerable. -áThe low flight ceiling imposed by the Codex build means you have little altitude to convert into horizontal motion in a hurry. -áIf you are at the edge of a map bordered by tall hills (I'm not going to dignify them with the term mountain) your ship will be wallowing in an attempt just to remain above terrain. -áTilt your ship to gain quick speed and you will contact that terrain and crash. -áEven in the middle of the map you have precious little altitude to sacrifice in order to tip your ship past 45 degrees in emergency acceleration. That's what can happen when you are only thinking that next target and not how to "run the table". -á A dropship is a team vehicle. -áIts effectiveness is directly related to the ability of the pilot and gunners to act as a coordinated team. -áCultivate relationships with good gunners. -áRandom blue dots are a liability as they will shoot the ship and mess up your piloting. -áThey won't have mic's and won't alert you to threats you can't see. -áIt's worth it to join a corp or visit the 0K0D channel to find dedicated gunners. -áIt takes practice to learn to lead shots from a moving ship and some folks will take to it more naturally than others.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:27:00 - [7] - Quote Fitting: Obviously your options multiply if you can tank a couple forge gun rounds without going down, so defense is a big part of your strategy. -áI run a Myron so this advice is for shield tankers. -áI run three 748hp shield extenders and one Clarity Ward Shield Booster. -áShield extenders are significantly better than shield hardeners in effect. -áThe top passive hardener only gives you a 15% percent bonus. -áYou would require a total shield strength of -á5,000 Hp before a hardener would be a better deal than an extender. -áAdd the fact that the Shield Adaptation skill has a 5X cost and it's ridiculous to consider. -áYes, you'll have to skill up to L4 in Engineering to get -áthe PG to fit those extenders, but it's far cheaper in skill points. -á That puts a Myron at 3,944Hp not counting your Shield Management skill level. -áAdd L3 SM and you are at 4,199Hp. With such a deep tank you can rely upon the shield booster to give you another effective 750 Hp (5 pulses of 150Hp) as you will most likely have the time to activate it and let it run for five seconds before your tank is depleted. -áThat can be used to regenerate your shields at a rate of 21 HP/second (with a 30 second cool down) which is a great deal when you consider that a Regeneration module won't get you anywhere near that 91% increase over your natural regeneration rate of 23HP/second. -áIf you take your SM skill to L5 your ship can effectively have 5,119Hp in shields. The non-Breach Proto Forge Gun base damage is 1,512Hp. -áAdd L5 Weapons at 10%, L5 Forge Gun Operations at 25%, and L5 Forge Gun Proficiency at 15% and you get 2,268 Hp of damage in one shot. -áYou can take two of those without going into armor, but only if you activate your booster before he gets off the second shot. -áBy then you had better be well on your way toward your safe zone. -áYou do know where that is without having to think about it, don't you? Meanwhile your gunner took notice of the first strike and tossed a missile his way to mess up the forge gunners aim. CRU's should be reserved for corp battles. -áThey take up a high slot and a significant amount of CPU and PG that is better spent on defense. -áBut even more than that, the CRU will populate your ship with half a dozen clones, two of which are poor gunners and four more who should be on the ground. -áIt doesn't do you team any good to have seven members tied up on to turrets. -áThe red dots will likely slaughter the remaining troops and are free to haul out more AV to use against you. There is no way you haven't already read that missile turrets are the way to go for weapons. -áBuy the best ones you have the skill or ISK for. You have a choice with your low slots. -áIt's a choice between -á20% damage modifiers and Nano Fiber Chassis mods. I use one of each. -áThe damage is too good to pass up, but I also prefer speed and agility.-á While you can fit and even trigger the HAV and LAV prop mods they don't do anything for you that I can determine. -áI ran a series of tests including a ground rest to flight ceiling acceleration timing and a rotation timing test. -áNeither yielded any significant results. -áThe Afterburner mod does work, but only the armor ship as enough PG to fit it, and that's stripping the ship bare for it. -á Tactics: Skirmish has one safe zone for you, and most Ambush maps have two. -áNobody fights in them on the rocky map, but they are open for you to use to turn around or hide in. -áTry to be useful in Skirmish. -áYou should already know what's happing below you based on your situational awareness, so you should know where your gunners would be most appreciated. -áSupport objective pushes or pound the enemy as they try to overwhelm one of yours. Don't fly into a box canyon. -áIf you do you will have to slow down to turn around and that might mean swarms catching up to you. -áThat includes any tight space surrounded by hills. Don't worry too much about enemy dropships. -áIt's extremely difficult to hit a moving target from a moving ship and you need several direct hits to make any difference. -áOne or even two enemy ships are unlikely to take you down, so keep an eye on them but don't obsess about them either. -áThat said, if you do go after one go for the altitude advantage so your gunners can fire down and the enemy can't fire up. Despite all this you will eventually get hit by a flight of swarms that will stop you in your tracks and push you backwards. -áDon't try to reverse the momentum and resume your course. -áThat leaves an easy target as you hang in one place. -áInstead, pivot and boost in whatever direction the swarms have you moving.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:35:00 - [8] - Quote Nice guide SK.. I will have to read it some more when I'm less edgy.. But looks like some really good info there. First! DROPSHIP VIDEO TUTORIAL (edited for forums/PG version) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgWjUQkETVQ if that vid don't get you hyped the role may not be for you...
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1898	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:47:00 - [9] - Quote Now if only tank drivers needed even 1/10 this amount of skill to drive their vehicles. Thanks for the write up anyways, very informative, hopefully it helps the few pilots willing to really put in the effort to get the hang of these things.
Akuzuma Oppa Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:51:00 - [10] - Quote Thanks for the info! Hopefully this will allow me to fly above tanks and drop remote explosives on them. Or allow my Heavy to travel anywhere I want :)

byte modal Algintal Core Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:54:00 - [11] - Quote sticky! thx for a solid point of reference. now let's build a PHAK514!
MrShooter01 Expert Intervention Caldari State 268	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:56:00 - [12] - Quote Thanks for the guide! I'm not an advanced pilot by any means but some of the things I've noted: Don't attempt to land by squeezing L2 with a vice grip, if you do that you will strip off half your vehicle's health with the impact even if you were just 10 feet off the ground. Ease into it with short taps. For this reason, DON'T attempt to land if there are enemies nearby because landing without killing yourself requires you to move very slowly. Though swarm missiles will not always kill you in one shot anymore, they are still very dangerous because they will now physically shake up your ship. Getting hit with even basic swarm missiles will toss and turn your ship, in some extreme cases even flip it upside down. You need to be ready to quickly correct it or you will eat dirt with half of your shields still there. Getting hit at a very low altitude is a great way to die instantly. You can still outrun swarm missiles if you build up enough speed, just don't expect to do anything more complicated than fly in large, lazy circles. Trying anything complicated or suddenly changing directions will rob you of enough speed for a cluster**** of missiles to catch up with you. They eventually run out of fuel in perhaps 30 seconds, but the guys on the ground have probably been continuing to launch missiles ever since you started dodging the first set. Watch out for railgun installations on the larger maps, if you fly at too low an angle respective to them and the gunner is competent, they can blast you out of the sky with a few shots. 2 direct hits is enough to set a basic militia fit on fire.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.01 21:58:00 - [13] - Quote Akuzuma Oppa wrote: Thanks for the info! Hopefully this will allow me to fly above tanks and drop remote explosives on them. Or allow my Heavy to travel anywhere I want :) Or you could remote repair the tanks with a gallente to increase the fuel flow of tears. (Hopefully one day they will let passengers shoot/drop nades/explosives from a dropship but I dont think it can be done currently) Your heavy is desired as a gunner on many a dropship (they can withstand a sniper round better than other suits)
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.01 22:01:00 - [14] - Quote Can the devs please fix the friend or foe indicator so friendlies can tell we are blue (or they might be just trying to troll me which I probly deserve) I no longer have much trouble recovering but yea would be kinda nice if we didn't recieve so much friendly fire..
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.01 22:12:00 - [15] - Quote Skihids wrote: Surviving Combat: Experienced pilots, send in your hard earned lessons! I recently started having some success with my Myron (finally) and while I can't offer detailed advice on the mechanics of piloting (thanks for this post, by the way, I wish it'd been around before I learned most of that stuff the hard way!) I can try to offer a few pieces of tactical advice. Some of this may not be applicable if you fly the Gallente dropship. 1) Speed is key. You can't outmaneuver swarms because, as mentioned above, any rapid turn costs you speed and altitude. Keep nanos in your lows and start running. 2) Swarms have a max altitude, you and your gunners (near as I can tell) do not. If the fight is too full of swarms to be effective fly to a high altitude and maintain a high speed orbit around the battlefield. Basically, imitate an AC-130. You won't get many kills like this, but you'll keep your dropship. After a while go back down. If you're lucky a lot of them will have died and switched to anti infantry fits. 3) At least one gunner (preferably both) must be someone on comms, and should be someone you trust. You camera is permanently facing forward. You can angle up and down, but you can't look left, right, or back. This means that there is a very wide arc where you can't see incoming swarms. A warning from your gunner is the difference between a full strength hit and a swarm exploding behind you and doing only light damage. Have your gunners use clock directions (Swarm incoming from 4 o'clock!) with 12 o'clock being the direction the dropship is facing. 4) Know what's hitting you. 4a) Four to six hits in rapid succession doing medium to high damage means swarm. These are your biggest threat, as infantry can get them for free, they lock on, they're difficult to evade even with warning, and it will only take 3-5 volleys to put you back on the earth with all the ground pounders. 4b) Many shots in rapid succession adding up to significant damage is a blaster. It's rare (but not unprecedented) to see these on HAVs. Usually they're on installations. They can angle up pretty high, but if you can maintain a tight orbit over them one of your gunners should be able to hit them. 4c) One shot doing significant damage is a railgun. These are popular both on HAVs and installations and can be very dangerous in the hands of a skilled operator. Keep an unpredictable movement pattern and a tight orbit and they'll struggle to hit you. Don't underestimate these, and be ready to turn tail and run if it seems like things are going ** up. 4d) One to six hits doing minor damage is heavy missiles. I don't know if it's a bug or what, but these don't seem to actually hurt dropships much. You can pretty much ignore them. 5) Know your targets 5a) You won't be able to distinguish one dropsuit from another, but try to keep an eye out for what they're using. If someone is firing swarms they're priority one for your gunners. Figure out where they are and either get a good firing solution for your gunners or avoid the area. 5b) Installations go down pretty quick to sustained fire. They're also worth 100 points. I like killing installations. 5c) LAVs can be tough to hit for a new gunner, but my buddy was doing pretty well against them after a few matches worth of practice. I don't think we went up against any good drivers or any non-militia LAVs, but the strategy for the pilot is the same: keep them where your gunner can shoot them. 5d) HAVs can shoot at a higher angle then you'd expect. The only exception, I think, is heavy missiles. They don't seem to be able to get an azimuth higher than 30 degrees. Point is, they can shoot back unless you're right over them. ** fit HAVs go down quickly. I've seen madrugers go down in 10-15 seconds. Well fit HAVs may require a full minute of sustained fire, and that's assuming 100% direct hits. A HAV's greatest strength is its ability to flee combat to repair before returning to wreak more havoc. If you see a HAV fleeing a group of friendly infantry, now is your time to strike. He can't run from you. Edit: One thing I forgot 6) Piloting a dropship is possibly the hardest role to take up in this game. Therefore it's only natural that it is also one of the poorest sources of warpoints. Your gunner will be getting about the same amount of kills as a good sniper, and you, the pilot, will only get 70% of the warpoints for them. Putting a defend order on your dropship doesn't work for giving squad leader commissions or order-following bonuses. Your best bet is to set a defend order to a friendly HAV, or to some installation or objective before getting into your dropship.This way any kills obtained by your gunners nearby get you a squad leader commission.
YGGDRASSIL MONDE Helion Production Labs Mildly Sober 3	Posted - 2012.09.01 22:31:00 - [16] - Quote Thank you so much for this I can actually fly without dying instantly now.
mcbob mcbob 10	Posted - 2012.09.02 02:19:00 - [17] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: [quote=Akuzuma Oppa] Your heavy is desired as a gunner on many a dropship (they can withstand a sniper round better than other suits) Yep, as a sniper, I got bored today and decided to take a few shots at a dropship. First shot took out the gunner that I didn't even know existed :P
Grenwal Hiesenberg Shadow Company HQ 223	Posted - 2012.09.02 03:03:00 - [18] - Quote Great writeup sir, there is so much good information in here I hope everyone who chooses to attempt flight reads this guide first. Thanks to everyone else who put their 2 cents in as well
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2864	Posted - 2012.09.02 03:27:00 - [19] - Quote Sooo... how do I stop rolling on lift off?
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.09.02 03:30:00 - [20] - Quote Skihids wrote: Surviving Combat: Experienced pilots, send in your hard earned lessons! Have good gunners that have headsets and evasion beats kills

Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.02 03:35:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sooo... how do I stop rolling on lift off? If you're holding down L1 and not touching the left stick you should go more-or-less straight up. Shouldn't be any rolling.
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2012.09.02 03:35:00 - [22] - Quote Should be stickied, and OP should put this on his New Eden resume'. The ability to teach that which is difficult will make you a great asset to whatever corp buys your soul.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2864	Posted - 2012.09.02 04:12:00 - [23] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sooo... how do I stop rolling on lift off? If you're holding down L1 and not touching the left stick you should go more-or-less straight up. Shouldn't be any rolling. Which probably further confirms my stick sensitivity is bugged.
wathak 514 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2012.09.02 06:47:00 - [24] - Quote Survival: Hav with heavy missiles u can laugh at as there dumpfire and literally bumping ur direction 1 way will make all misles miss Its not uncommon for havs to have a small missile turrets though there slow and a little inacurate still be carefull a good shot can kill ur gunner and lay some heavy dmg to u If u see swarms on the ground primary them remember ur in the sky if 1 memebr of there team can see u a swarm of missils can come from the otherside of the map with no buildings to break the lock Always act smoothly a dropship is like a touchy car u jerk the steering wheel ur gana flip and crash. If enemy fire is heavy best option is to fly laps around the outside of the field ur speed will stay high ur flight smooth and gunners wont get as many kills but ull be alive and still getting some Never use altitude as a first option if swarms are coming its quicker to build up speed then to build altittude Protect ur gunners its better to get hit in the ass then to get hit in the side and lose a gunner Advance manuevers: Dont need them keep the fligh.t smooth for ur gu.nners and dodge dropship killers no need for fancy **** unless ur kicking ass and want to have some fun. Thats all i got that hasnt been said yet
Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.02 07:08:00 - [25] - Quote I never seem to be able to lift off at all. Am I missing something? Do I need piloting or something to fly a militia dropship? I can rotate it, and the thrusters move, but I can't lift off no matter how long I hold L1. I've even tried bumping it with an LAV.
wathak 514 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2012.09.02 07:36:00 - [26] - Quote Shiro Mokuzan wrote: I never seem to be able to lift off at all. Am I missing something? Do I need piloting or something to fly a militia dropship? I can rotate it, and the thrusters move, but I can't lift off no matter how long I hold L1. I've even tried bumping it with an LAV. R1 is thrust hold it down to create thrust after that just fallow the directions in te first 3 or 4 posts of this thread
Odiain Suliis 39	Posted - 2012.09.02 08:58:00 - [27] - Quote Also minor note to new aspiring pilot. If pilot hops into crewarea to man the gun or just be there, the DS will fall like a cinderblock. Hapened to me. :D
Jak Teston Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 99	Posted - 2012.09.02 09:48:00 - [28] - Quote One maneuver I practiced early was jumping from cover to cover. When there are swarm launchers in the vicinity and you can't take much more damage it's a good thing to know how to get from behind one building to the next one in the minimum amount of time possible at a heading of your liking. Being able to fly in any direction regardless of heading is important so you can lead incoming missiles into obstacles. Also, practicing "full stop to full speed back to full stop" is a good lesson to learn when you want to pick up gunners without being in a pre-made squad. People will judge you on your ability to land smoothly and momentum management is key in a smooth landing. A wonky and thus lengthy landing also makes you a prime target for all kinds of threats, so practice this a lot.
Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.02 10:46:00 - [29] - Quote wathak 514 wrote: Shiro Mokuzan wrote: I never seem to be able to lift off at all. Am I missing something? Do I need piloting or something to fly a militia dropship? I can rotate it, and the thrusters move, but I can't lift off no matter how long I hold L1. I've even tried bumping it with an LAV. R1 is thrust hold it down to create thrust after that just fallow the directions in te first 3 or 4 posts of this thread No it's not, unless you are using the southpaw configuration, which I'm not.
Farrokh Taril Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.09.02 11:13:00 - [30] - Quote Thanks from a fresh convert! Started flying about an hour and a half ago. My first attempt at takeoff, I turned hard into a wall and my bird blew up. After that, I picked up the controls pretty quickly, and while I still have to work on not looking awkward during high speed descents, I've only lost four more since then. I learned the hard way that dropships are very sensitive to sudden jars, and lost two birds to a hit from Swarm missiles that flipped them upside down. The other two were felled by concentrated tanks, and I was able to jump out and survive with intertial dampeners. Absolutely loving the experience; I've successfully run several evac runs, dropped a squad's worth of guys onto an objective deep in enemy territory, and held suppression in a tight urban space. It's been thrilling, and I'm hooked. Fly safe! ;)

Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.02 14:15:00 - [31] - Quote Jak Teston wrote: One maneuver I practiced early was jumping from cover to cover. When there are swarm launchers in the vicinity and you can't take much more damage it's a good thing to know how to get from behind one building to the next one in the minimum amount of time possible at a heading of your liking. Being able to fly in any direction regardless of heading is important so you can lead incoming missiles into obstacles. Also, practicing "full stop to full speed back to full stop" is a good lesson to learn when you want to pick up gunners without being in a pre-made squad. People will judge you on your ability to land smoothly and momentum management is key in a smooth landing. A wonky and thus lengthy landing also makes you a prime target for all kinds of threats, so practice this a lot. This is why you are best off mastering the early lessons before you run off and start your combat career. It's certainly tempting to go kill things, but you will delay your training, lose more birds, and tarnish your reputation with gunners. In the beginning all student pilots are said to be "behind the airplane". This describes the state of reacting to what the craft is doing at the moment. All thought is "Oh, now it's drifting to the left. I have to move the left stick to the right. Now my nose is wandering to the right, I need to push the right stick." This is normal. However there will come a magical moment when you suddenly realize that you are no longer conscious of your control inputs. The ship will just go where you want it to go. This is the moment you are mentaly ahead of your craft even if you are in 3rd person view. Regular practice of the ground reference maneuvers will provide the feedback to wire this in your brain. Don't short change yourself.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.02 14:17:00 - [32] - Quote Shiro Mokuzan wrote: wathak 514 wrote: Shiro Mokuzan wrote: I never seem to be able to lift off at all. Am I missing something? Do I need piloting or something to fly a militia dropship? I can rotate it, and the thrusters move, but I can't lift off no matter how long I hold L1. I've even tried bumping it with an LAV. R1 is thrust hold it down to create thrust after that just fallow the directions in te first 3 or 4 posts of this thread No it's not, unless you are using the southpaw configuration, which I'm not. Known bug. That happens to me intermittently too. Power cycle your PS3, that usually fixes it for me.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.02 14:23:00 - [33] - Quote Skihids wrote: Regular practice of the ground reference maneuvers will provide the feedback to wire this in your brain. Oh, this actually brings up something I've been struggling with a bit. If I get enough altitude to where I can't see buildings anymore, I have a really hard time maintaining awareness of where I am on the map. I have to use the down-looking camera after that, which is a pain in the butt and often doesn't help. Any thoughts on something that might help with that?
Grenwal Hiesenberg Shadow Company HQ 223	Posted - 2012.09.02 14:59:00 - [34] - Quote I wonder if they are going to add things like a horizon line indicator or a meter that tells you what angle your nose is facing (up or down, 0 for level, etc.). Basic flight instruments and such, maybe even incoming projectile sensors/warnings. Got rocked by two swarms in a viper last night, they didn't take me down but neither of my gunners said a thing (no mics?). Maybe some sort of colored indicator on the minimap to show which direction they are coming from, how fast, how many and so forth.
Grenwal Hiesenberg Shadow Company HQ 223	Posted - 2012.09.02 15:02:00 - [35] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: Skihids wrote: Regular practice of the ground reference maneuvers will provide the feedback to wire this in your brain. Oh, this actually brings up something I've been struggling with a bit. If I get enough altitude to where I can't see buildings anymore, I have a really hard time maintaining awareness of where I am on the map. I have to use the down-looking camera after that, which is a pain in the butt and often doesn't help. Any thoughts on something that might help with that? I wish we were able to pull waaaayyy back in third person view, we would be able to see buildings, mountains, projectiles; enough to be spacially aware.
Jak Teston Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 99	Posted - 2012.09.02 16:42:00 - [36] - Quote I'd really like the HUD, perhaps when in first person view, to show altitude, rate of ascend, true ground speed and inclination. That'd make things easier. And the minimap should definitely show missiles.
Grenwal Hiesenberg Shadow Company HQ 223	Posted - 2012.09.02 17:08:00 - [37] - Quote Jak Teston wrote: I'd really like the HUD, perhaps when in first person view, to show altitude, rate of ascend, true ground speed and inclination. That'd make things easier. And the minimap should definitely show missiles. Ground speed never even crossed my mind for some reason but definitely needed, especially when you're drifting slightly in one direction or another in first person. + and - for fore and aft motion respectively. What about being able to lock the third person camera in an overhead view for setting up your flying spawn over an objective? It would allow you to stabilize yourself over top of certain terrain characteristics, where teammates can drop behind a ridge, in a ravine, etc. for a bit of added cover upon dropping.
Jak Teston Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 99	Posted - 2012.09.02 17:17:00 - [38] - Quote Grenwal Hiesenberg wrote: What about being able to lock the third person camera in an overhead view for setting up your flying spawn over an objective? It would allow you to stabilize yourself over top of certain terrain characteristics, where teammates can drop behind a ridge, in a ravine, etc. for a bit of added cover upon dropping. Shouldn't the minimap cover that functionality? It would of course need to show some actual terrain for reference, but that has been one of my main issues with it even before I started piloting dropships. If we don't get any visible terrain on the minimap I support your suggestion. Space age technology should definitely provide a solution to something that has bugged helicopter pilots since the first time someone tried to land a helicopter.
Kovak Therim ZionTCD Legacy Rising 158	Posted - 2012.09.02 17:32:00 - [39] - Quote Now if only it didn't cost a fortune in both ISK/AUR and precious skill points to use a vehicle we may very well end up hating with a passion, even with practice. There needs to be a dedicated vehicle server where kills/deaths don't count, the "battle" never ends, and the vehicles are free. When you feel like you've got the hang of it, you just leave the server and get back to the real matches.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.02 17:33:00 - [40] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: Skihids wrote: Regular practice of the ground reference maneuvers will provide the feedback to wire this in your brain. Oh, this actually brings up something I've been struggling with a bit. If I get enough altitude to where I can't see buildings anymore, I have a really hard time maintaining awareness of where I am on the map. I have to use the down-looking camera after that, which is a pain in the butt and often doesn't help. Any thoughts on something that might help with that? This is an issue that I struggle with too. I can usually shift the camera view and get my bearings, but that's only an intermittent fix. There are two problems with maintaining a downward view. 1) The lack of an instrument cluster makes maintaining a given flight attitude nearly impossible. 2) Just like the LAV controls, you loose all ability to control yaw with the camera stick all the way back. You can either view your heading or change it, but not both at the same time. I am not sure of the best fix for this, though I have some ideas: 1) Toggle the view. This would fix the second problem and the addition of an instrument cluster would fix the first. It could cycle between 1st person, the current view, full overhead, and full rear. 2) Remove the camera centering. This however could introduce more problems than it solves as an inadvertent bump (all too easily done when using the stick for yaw control), and you loose spatial awareness. Some center toggle would probably be required in addition to instruments. 3) Configure the mini map so it maintains the building display when at altitude and adds the red zone boundary. This could be done in addition to either of the first two options. 4) Remove yaw from the right stick and put it on the floor in the form of rudder pedals where it belongs, then the right stick can be pure camera movement. As much as I would love this arrangement, it would mean adding a second piece of hardware which doesn't exist. I would gladly cannibalize a spare DS3 to wire into a set of rudder pedals, but I can't see CCP requiring it. Perhaps they could make that an optional control arrangement for those of us willing to do a little hardware hacking?

Grenwal Hiesenberg Shadow Company HQ 223	Posted - 2012.09.02 17:41:00 - [41] - Quote Jak, yes terrain on the minimap would kill many birds with one stone, nice idea. The only slight problem I could see would be people playing on smaller screens might lose detail to point where it could be unreadable and hard to determine what is what. How about making it kind of like a very basic topographical make with colored lines denoting rises and falls in terrain. I really do think we need a fixed hud just for flying, I would be willing to bet that it is already being considered or worked on.
Grenwal Hiesenberg Shadow Company HQ 223	Posted - 2012.09.02 17:48:00 - [42] - Quote Skihids, plus 1 in the last post on 1-3, the red line needs to be there. I lost a ship last night that just blew up and I'm thinking this was why, in infantry view there is a timer but i didn't notice it on my screen (2 in the morning...), an alarm would be nice along with your suggestion.
wathak 514 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2012.09.02 17:53:00 - [43] - Quote I dont know what u guys are talcking about 1. Normal instrumentation of modern aircraft wont help much since inorder tofly forward ur nose needs to be down and to fly backwards ur nose points up. 2. Swarm missiles dont need to trigger an alarm or they would be broke against dropships aswell if ur hit by 1 set u need to kick n the speed cause theres more on the way. And a minimap that shows terrain features i feel dont need but wont hurt as for a redline indicator we need that
Grenwal Hiesenberg Shadow Company HQ 223	Posted - 2012.09.02 18:00:00 - [44] - Quote Wathak, i guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Edit : though I do believe number one is what i was referring to in an earlier post about a pitch indicator.
Sin3 DeusNomine Doomheim 142	Posted - 2012.09.02 18:06:00 - [45] - Quote If anyone wants to take a ride with me just send me a message in game. :) I run a pretty solid viper and can pull off moves really well. If you see a drop ship flying a foot of the ground flying under pipes at 100 miles a hour and ripping around the map like a mad man. It is probably me. :) I like to push it to the limit. You can kind of see how I fly so you may learn a little of what a drop ship can do. Speed if your friend when swarms come in. :)
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.09.02 18:15:00 - [46] - Quote Not sure if mentioned but if you end up on the ground upside down (swarms can do this) jump out then order an lav asap. Use LAV to ram it upright again. Saved about 7 dropships this way. Warning it all feels very back hawk down as all the angrys come looking for revenge while your grounded.
Jak Teston Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 99	Posted - 2012.09.02 18:36:00 - [47] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Not sure if mentioned but if you end up on the ground upside down (swarms can do this) jump out then order an lav asap. Use LAV to ram it upright again. Saved about 7 dropships this way. That's an ... interesting ... method, so kudos to you for pulling that off, but I somehow think it's not what should be printed in Dust's manual once released. Perhaps one day it will be possible to have an RDV take back a vehicle once you're done with it. There are situations where I would leave my dropship due to tactical reasons, but I can't because I'd lose it in the process.
Grenwal Hiesenberg Shadow Company HQ 223	Posted - 2012.09.02 18:39:00 - [48] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Not sure if mentioned but if you end up on the ground upside down (swarms can do this) jump out then order an lav asap. Use LAV to ram it upright again. Saved about 7 dropships this way. Warning it all feels very back hawk down as all the angrys come looking for revenge while your grounded. Great tip, i appreciate the info and will have to try that out if i ever get a ship on the ground in one piece, lol. Sin3, I'd love to take you up on that offer, keep an eye out for me at the BOTTOM of the leaderboard...
Grenwal Hiesenberg Shadow Company HQ 223	Posted - 2012.09.02 18:42:00 - [49] - Quote Jak Teston wrote: Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Not sure if mentioned but if you end up on the ground upside down (swarms can do this) jump out then order an lav asap. Use LAV to ram it upright again. Saved about 7 dropships this way. That's an ... interesting ... method, so kudos to you for pulling that off, but I somehow think it's not what should be printed in Dust's manual once released. Perhaps one day it will be possible to have an RDV take back a vehicle once you're done with it. There are situations where I would leave my dropship due to tactical reasons, but I can't because I'd lose it in the process. I was just thinking about this earlier, people would probably glitch t to refill armor and shields though. I wish there was a squad lock on your vehicles to prevent teammates from jacking your ride, this was mentioned earlier and has happened to me twice now.
hupi testi 22	Posted - 2012.09.02 18:46:00 - [50] - Quote ----

Yasu Hondo Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.09.02 18:52:00 - [51] - Quote Great Guide SK. It took me awhile to pick up the new controls when this build came in and I have avoided flying most games because of the need to practice. Hopefully the full game version will included tutorials for all vehicles but in the meantime, your guide has beefed up my flight knowledge and I hope to go practice some more. Once I save up the ISK! Ironically, I've lost most of my dropships in the precursor build not to enemy fire or my own blunderings but to a bug that prevents them from lift off once dropped on the ground. Frustrations grew and I had to abandon them to be hacked or dissolve. Of course the hackers all faced the same problem and became sitting ducks. An expensive decoy though.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.02 18:58:00 - [52] - Quote This post is intended as an instruction manual for dropship gunners. I've never gunned myself, so as far as things like "aiming" I can't offer much. 1) Your primary role is not to get kills. You are your pilots eyes in directions he or she cannot see. Every few seconds scan the area for incoming swarms, railguns that have taken an interest in your DS, or other threats. When you see something give your pilot an identification, and clock direction. E.g. "Railgun shots incoming from 7 o'clock" 2) The pilot is in charge. If the pilot says "target the guy by the pillar at 11 o'clock" then that is your primary. I don't care if you've got a bead on three snipers right next to each other who would be a perfect triple kill. If the pilot says bail, bail. If the pilot has not given the bail order, do not bail. Also, I've created a channel in game: "0k0d" (a DS pilot's ideal KDR). This is intended as a "pilots seeking gunners" channel. Basically a special purpose "LFSquad".
Grenwal Hiesenberg Shadow Company HQ 223	Posted - 2012.09.02 19:16:00 - [53] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: Also, I've created a channel in game: "0k0d" (a DS pilot's ideal KDR). This is intended as a "pilots seeking gunners" channel. Basically a special purpose "LFSquad". Good idea, If I'm not too inebriated after my homebrew meeting I'll join in for a little while
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.09.02 19:20:00 - [54] - Quote If you like rap i suggest downloading instrumental versions of your favorite songs. It helps me get in the grove of swerving on swarms
Lucivar Athonille Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2012.09.02 20:46:00 - [55] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: This post is intended as an instruction manual for dropship gunners. I've never gunned myself, so as far as things like "aiming" I can't offer much. 1) Your primary role is not to get kills. You are your pilots eyes in directions he or she cannot see. Every few seconds scan the area for incoming swarms, railguns that have taken an interest in your DS, or other threats. When you see something give your pilot an identification, and clock direction. E.g. "Railgun shots incoming from 7 o'clock" 2) The pilot is in charge. If the pilot says "target the guy by the pillar at 11 o'clock" then that is your primary. I don't care if you've got a bead on three snipers right next to each other who would be a perfect triple kill. If the pilot says bail, bail. If the pilot has not given the bail order, do not bail. Also, I've created a channel in game: "0k0d" (a DS pilot's ideal KDR). This is intended as a "pilots seeking gunners" channel. Basically a special purpose "LFSquad". As Sees-to-much's primary gunner, we've seen our fair share of flight time together. The gunner's job is one part recon, and one part killing machine. You'll want to constantly keep an eye on the tide of the battle and call out targets and flight patterns for the pilot. You'll want to identify high value targets, and confrontations that could help the tide of battle. My target priorities: 1) Dropships: They are potentially very dangerous to you. 3) HAVs/LAVs: You can be the bane of their existence just as they strike fear into your allies on the ground. I thoroughly enjoy watching them try to scramble away from my shots. You will run into some HAVs that are so well tanked however that it isn't worth your time. 4) Objectives: Usually a target rich environment. Nothing is more satisfying then bringing down the full force of your air support in direct support of your ground troops. Focus first on objectives currently being fought over 5) Other: These are your snipers, and your enemy in an open field. I usually blow these guys up on the way to more important targets. Our Lingo: He spoke about it a little before, but I want to emphasis that a gunner has better eyes on the battlefield and should be directing the pilot. I'll usually call out the direction I want him to fly, where I want to be facing and in what direction he should be flying. For example, "I need to be over objective A, circle around it counter clockwise around your nine." Too easy eh? Since Sees-to-much can't speak much on aiming, I wanted to just say this one thing. Mouse and Keyboard. There is no other way.
Raynor Ragna 266	Posted - 2012.09.02 21:05:00 - [56] - Quote I think the only way a target aircraft will know if missiles are on the way is if they are radar guided. Heat seeking and laser guided won't give off any signal. Of course an aircraft could search for fast moving threats (I'm no expert on this stuff but that is my understanding of how they work). It would be nice to have different ammo types that could simulate this. Along with a module for counter measures. Standard missiles could be radar guided which gives pilots a warning alarm when they are on their way. They could however have beter object detection and could avoid more obsticles to hit their mark. Heat seaking misiles wouldn't give off a signal but could be easier to out manuver since if they pass their target, they can not longer see their target. I'm not quite sure about laser guided missiles.
hupi testi 22	Posted - 2012.09.02 21:25:00 - [57] - Quote Raynor Ragna wrote: I think the only way a target aircraft will know if missiles are on the way is if they are radar guided. Heat seeking and laser guided won't give off any signal. Of course an aircraft could search for fast moving threats (I'm no expert on this stuff but that is my understanding of how they work). It would be nice to have different ammo types that could simulate this. Along with a module for counter measures. Standard missiles could be radar guided which gives pilots a warning alarm when they are on their way. They could however have beter object detection and could avoid more obsticles to hit their mark. Heat seaking misiles wouldn't give off a signal but could be easier to out manuver since if they pass their target, they can not longer see their target. I'm not quite sure about laser guided missiles. For laser guided missiles one mechanic could be that someone on-ground would 'paint' the target with somekind of equipment.
mcbob mcbob 10	Posted - 2012.09.02 22:05:00 - [58] - Quote Nice guide, but I'm not sure how much it helped because I've never flown in DUST before today, and i got the hang of it very quickly.
Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 91	Posted - 2012.09.02 23:20:00 - [59] - Quote Kovak Therim wrote: There needs to be a dedicated vehicle server where kills/deaths don't count, the "battle" never ends, and the vehicles are free. When you feel like you've got the hang of it, you just leave the server and get back to the real matches. Yeah, whenever I wanted to get the hang of a new ship in EVE I'd just hop on Sisi and blow stuff up a bit. If only there were a server like Singularity for DUST... Hey. Waitaminute. (In all seriousness, once the game launches for prime time, I wouldn't put it past CCP to set up a testing instance of DUST on Sisi.)
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.02 23:42:00 - [60] - Quote Raynor Ragna wrote: I think the only way a target aircraft will know if missiles are on the way is if they are radar guided. Heat seeking and laser guided won't give off any signal. Of course an aircraft could search for fast moving threats (I'm no expert on this stuff but that is my understanding of how they work). It would be nice to have different ammo types that could simulate this. Along with a module for counter measures. Standard missiles could be radar guided which gives pilots a warning alarm when they are on their way. They could however have beter object detection and could avoid more obsticles to hit their mark. Heat seaking misiles wouldn't give off a signal but could be easier to out manuver since if they pass their target, they can not longer see their target. I'm not quite sure about laser guided missiles. A lockon warning would only be possible if the weapon had an active guidance system such as radar or laser. Passive systems would give no lockon warning and that would be a great weapon diierentiator. Once the missile launched an onboard system could easily detect them if only by visual or heat signature. As was pointed out though, good gunners will most probably be just as effective. I just haven't had the privilege of flying with a pair yet.

TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.03 00:13:00 - [61] - Quote If you are gunning or spawn in as a random gunner, please do not stay aiming the gun to the rear of the ship and transfix on targets behind the ship.. The Pilot in many cases knows where you want to aim at and is going to make another pass but if you constantly aim behind the ship you are worthless gunner. As the the ship is in most cases moving forward, this is very frustrating for the pilot when the gunners transfix their aim to the rear of the ship. Please return gun to the 9, 12, and 3 o'clock positions ASAP.. Thank you. That is all. Also do not shoot the cestus/MCC.. This not only makes you look like a total noob you will miss targets on the ground while tranfixing on the cestus which you are not helping to win the match.. It does very little damage to it and you will not score any bonus points, even if you do the SP gain will be very small compared to an actual target on the ground.
Drake Gro'Dar 19	Posted - 2012.09.03 00:19:00 - [62] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: If you are gunning or spawn in as a random gunner, please do not stay aiming the gun to the rear of the ship and transfix on targets behind the ship.. The Pilot in many cases knows where you want to aim at and is going to make another pass but if you constantly aim behind the ship you are worthless gunner. As the the ship is in most cases moving forward, this is very frustrating for the pilot when the gunners transfix their aim to the rear of the ship. Please return gun to the 9, 12, and 3 o'clock positions ASAP.. Thank you. That is all. I agree, a good gunner should move around and lead the target to account for ship movement. Me and tebow rained hell on some guys last night. It's all about alittle skill and communication.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.03 00:33:00 - [63] - Quote Drake Gro'Dar wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: If you are gunning or spawn in as a random gunner, please do not stay aiming the gun to the rear of the ship and transfix on targets behind the ship.. The Pilot in many cases knows where you want to aim at and is going to make another pass but if you constantly aim behind the ship you are worthless gunner. As the the ship is in most cases moving forward, this is very frustrating for the pilot when the gunners transfix their aim to the rear of the ship. Please return gun to the 9, 12, and 3 o'clock positions ASAP.. Thank you. That is all. I agree, a good gunner should move around and lead the target to account for ship movement. Me and tebow rained hell on some guys last night. It's all about alittle skill and communication. Yes Drake here is an excellent gunner, gentlemen. The only thing that could stop us was someone being killed by Drake infiltrated CCP's headquarters and killed their hamster ending our reign of terror. Hope we fly again soon bro. I forgot my damn mic tonight as I temporarily relocated my PS3 somewhere else Awesome headsup on the gunner channel, sees. I tried a random game last night, pleading and demanding with the random blues to get on the ship, but they were content with btching about the sniper rifles, shields, and the game wasnt alike COD and Halo.. OMG team chat sux.
Drake Gro'Dar 19	Posted - 2012.09.03 00:45:00 - [64] - Quote I'll be on later, I'm sure we can squad up even without a mic we should do fine
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.03 03:23:00 - [65] - Quote Zat Earthshatter wrote: Should be stickied, and OP should put this on his New Eden resume'. The ability to teach that which is difficult will make you a great asset to whatever corp buys your soul. I'm warning you, flattery will get you everywhere!
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.03 03:35:00 - [66] - Quote I was doing some thinking about my dogfight earlier today, and I've been theorycrafting some dogfighting ideas. These aren't tried and tested like my other posts, so I'd love some feedback. For the pilot: 1) Dropship turrets can reach all the way in front of the dropship, given a target far enough away, and almost all the way behind. They can also shoot directly below. That gives you a deadzone directly above or behind the enemy dropship. Try to be there. 2) At the same time, try to keep the enemy out of your deadzone. Make sure at least one gunner can always hit the target. 3) Keep in constant communication with your gunners. You don't have to make a wild course change to keep the target lined up with a single gunner as long as you're making sure the other knows where and when to expect the target to come into their field of view. 4) Know the state of the fight on the ground. Does your team have a lot of swarmers? If so, try to force your opponent to fight at a low altitude and vice versa. For the gunners: 1) Make sure your pilot knows where the enemy is. Constant communication. 2) Aim for the passenger compartment. The splash damage can kill off the people inside, including the gunners. 3) Watch your health bar. If you're taking damage tell your pilot.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.03 07:21:00 - [67] - Quote Drake Gro'Dar wrote: I'll be on later, I'm sure we can squad up even without a mic we should do fine YOU CANNOT JOIN A SQUAD ALREADY DEPLOYED IN BATTLE
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.03 07:28:00 - [68] - Quote You ever tried a small railgun on your ship sees? I switched out a small missile turret for one but can't get in a game to test it.. i thought it might possibly be good for dogfights... and maybe even some AV... someone said never to use rails on a dropship but i'm gonna try it out anyway..
Jak Teston Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 99	Posted - 2012.09.03 08:38:00 - [69] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: You ever tried a small railgun on your ship sees? I switched out a small missile turret for one but can't get in a game to test it.. i thought it might possibly be good for dogfights... and maybe even some AV... someone said never to use rails on a dropship but i'm gonna try it out anyway.. Last build as a gunner I once took down a hostile dropship with a blaster in a matter of seconds. However I didn't try it out on my own dropships because people tend to leave your dropship when they don't see a missile launcher immediately. Having one launcher and one blaster would appear to be a good combination.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.03 12:21:00 - [70] - Quote I have a friend who is more-or-less always my gunner. He tried out rails and blasters and hated both. Same with cycled launchers. He said he lost too much accuracy in all cases. I don't know if the non-militia rails "feel" different to a great enough degree to justify switching to them. As is dogfights aren't common enough to justify sacrificing my efficacy against infantry. I would've liked rails if we could make them work. I'm told they're more effective against shields, so we'd actually have some hope of taking out the well fit HAVs with them.

mcbob mcbob 10	Posted - 2012.09.03 20:17:00 - [71] - Quote anybody know if it's effective to try repairing the shields of tanks from a dropship?
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.03 20:20:00 - [72] - Quote mcbob mcbob wrote: anybody know if it's effective to try repairing the shields of tanks from a dropship? The DEVs talked about doing it with two DS's repping one tank and each other in one of the trailers.
mcbob mcbob 10	Posted - 2012.09.04 00:13:00 - [73] - Quote Skihids wrote: mcbob mcbob wrote: anybody know if it's effective to try repairing the shields of tanks from a dropship? The DEVs talked about doing it with two DS's repping one tank and each other in one of the trailers. I've been trying to support vehicles, but by the time I get the ship, it already went kaboom. Gonna try it next time there's some serious tank combat going on.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.04 02:17:00 - [74] - Quote yea sees i tried that railgun/cycled missile combo and my gunner wasnt too stoked on the rail.. but he took out a gunlogi with the cycled.. i wish we could get a cycled version of the rail we got taken out by a carrier droping a freakn LAV
Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.04 02:21:00 - [75] - Quote I mostly got the hang of flying now, meaning I can stay in the air and not run into things most of the time. I found a workaround for the no thrust controls bug--the keyboard still works, so I use that for thrust. I hit it with my pinkie while holding the controller.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1898	Posted - 2012.09.04 02:21:00 - [76] - Quote Could someone give me the lowdown on how to stop? Like, I'll be moving along, then I'll want to slow down to give my gunners a good shot...but I kind of just whip all over the place. Is there some way to stop quickly, or do you have to bank all the way around to slow down? Also, <3 cycled missile launchers, so good vs vehicles. Last build I used to have a blaster and a missile launcher (blaster for enemy dropships) but you don't see them enough to really justify it right now.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.04 02:22:00 - [77] - Quote My gunner hated the cycled launcher, too. The accelerated launcher covers the distance between you and your target a lot faster, so they don't have to lead as much. It also does more damage and has a wider blast radius.
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2012.09.04 02:26:00 - [78] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Could someone give me the lowdown on how to stop? Like, I'll be moving along, then I'll want to slow down to give my gunners a good shot...but I kind of just whip all over the place. Is there some way to stop quickly, or do you have to bank all the way around to slow down? As the OP says, these mechanics are like Lunar Lander. You have to roll/yaw the ship against your direction, then use L1 throttle to stop. The real trick is making it one smooth motion, and not panicking
Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.04 02:26:00 - [79] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Could someone give me the lowdown on how to stop? Like, I'll be moving along, then I'll want to slow down to give my gunners a good shot...but I kind of just whip all over the place. Is there some way to stop quickly, or do you have to bank all the way around to slow down? Also, <3 cycled missile launchers, so good vs vehicles. Last build I used to have a blaster and a missile launcher (blaster for enemy dropships) but you don't see them enough to really justify it right now. You need to angle your thrust so it's opposite direction you're moving.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1898	Posted - 2012.09.04 02:26:00 - [80] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: My gunner hated the cycled launcher, too. The accelerated launcher covers the distance between you and your target a lot faster, so they don't have to lead as much. It also does more damage and has a wider blast radius. To be fair, if they're a descent shot and you can keep the ship steady, the cycled launchers do more damage. I was considering having one cycled launcher for vehicles and one accelerated for infantry, though you can use either gun against either target, of course.

TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.04 03:11:00 - [81] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Could someone give me the lowdown on how to stop? Like, I'll be moving along, then I'll want to slow down to give my gunners a good shot...but I kind of just whip all over the place. Is there some way to stop quickly, or do you have to bank all the way around to slow down? Also, <3 cycled missile launchers, so good vs vehicles. Last build I used to have a blaster and a missile launcher (blaster for enemy dropships) but you don't see them enough to really justify it right now. gunner has to have patience.. stopping is the harderst thing to do.. theres a couple different ways but one is to do a 180 and use retro thrust.. the last build u could just stop and give the gunner stable shots, not so right now.. gunner needs more skill now
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.04 03:17:00 - [82] - Quote My preferred way to stop is simply to pitch my nose up. You won't get an immediate stop, but you'll get a pretty quick one and it since it doesn't require turning around it's not as jarring for your gunners. One of the real challenges is simply sitting still. Every once in a while you'll get lucky and find yourself near an objective where no one has a way to attack air. At that point you want to hover and let your gunners rake in as many kills as possible (I've seen "vehicle kill assist" pop up 10 times in 20 seconds), but holding steady for them is a pain in the butt.
hupi testi 22	Posted - 2012.09.04 07:39:00 - [83] - Quote MCC missiles and nul cannons are real This is thread from this site, discusing about MCC missiles fired to enemy MMC being real and doing damage. So be carefull if your flight path goes through their firing line. Also from that thread, null cannon's projectiles are real and prettymuch 1-hit dropsips so avoid hovering above those aswell. unless you want to do this: Korey Sangrenta wrote: crazy space wrote: Korey Sangrenta wrote: If I purposefully take a null cannon shot in a clinch match will it save the game for my team DiscUss ? If I fly my ship above a enemy launcher in a all tied up match and get killed by the missile will it spare the mcc that cycle of dmg?
Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.04 08:52:00 - [84] - Quote Well the last few times I've called in a dropship I haven't been able to take off. I know it's a control issue, since it works on the keyboard.
Bogart Meecheegun Doomheim 4	Posted - 2012.09.04 15:07:00 - [85] - Quote Anyone interested in an aircav themed clan after launch?
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.04 15:09:00 - [86] - Quote How would it cap objectives?
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:36:00 - [87] - Quote i had another gunner last night request i fit a small rail.. after i removed it at the request of gunner before him! these gunners... such a fickle bunch
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:39:00 - [88] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: How would it cap objectives? i think he means air calvary there sees..? like in vietnam the Huey crew were called air calvary, hence the 1rst Cav Division
Drake Gro'Dar 19	Posted - 2012.09.04 16:42:00 - [89] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: i had another gunner last night request i fit a small rail.. after i removed it at the request of gunner before him! these gunners... such a fickle bunch Wel tebow that second gunner should have known that the first gunner tested that small rail and decided that a missile launcher works better. But maybe I'm just better with missiles lol
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:18:00 - [90] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: Sees-Too-Much wrote: How would it cap objectives? i think he means air calvary there sees..? like in vietnam the Huey crew were called air calvary, hence the 1rst Cav Division So...paratroopers? Everybody loads up in dropships at the outset, we drop everyone over the objectives and then the dropships lay covering fire while the ground pounders take the objective? Current maps aren't really big enough for it, but it'd be pretty awesome otherwise. hums "blood on the risers"

Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:22:00 - [91] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: Sees-Too-Much wrote: How would it cap objectives? i think he means air calvary there sees..? like in vietnam the Huey crew were called air calvary, hence the 1rst Cav Division So...paratroopers? Everybody loads up in dropships at the outset, we drop everyone over the objectives and then the dropships lay covering fire while the ground pounders take the objective? Current maps aren't really big enough for it, but it'd be pretty awesome otherwise. hums "blood on the risers" I think this is pretty much what dropships are intended for. The maps are big enough, we are just currently restricted to a small portion of them. It's amazing when you zoom all the way out to see how big they are.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.09.04 17:35:00 - [92] - Quote Has anyone had any luck with fitting a remote rep on a dropship and repping another vehicle's shields or armor?
Bogart Meecheegun Doomheim 4	Posted - 2012.09.04 18:12:00 - [93] - Quote Paratroopers in space, yo :) It may just purely be for fun. Dropships are terrible relative to the investment required to run them right now. By the time I'm Gal DS lvl3 (I salvaged 5 Prometheus DSs, woot) I'll have dropped over 1mil sp in that skill alone. I'll guarantee the yield compared to the same investment in HAVs will be smaller by an order of magnitud
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1898	Posted - 2012.09.04 23:16:00 - [94] - Quote I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but an excellent way to gtfo of dodge is to quickly drop your altitude as you're moving forward, then pull up as you approach the ground. This basically launches you forward and gives you a good boost of speed, plus it can be used to break LoS for Swarms depending on the map. Lots of fun ^_^
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.04 23:24:00 - [95] - Quote Drake Gro'Dar wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: i had another gunner last night request i fit a small rail.. after i removed it at the request of gunner before him! these gunners... such a fickle bunch Wel tebow that second gunner should have known that the first gunner tested that small rail and decided that a missile launcher works better. But maybe I'm just better with missiles lol ^^^The best. Drake is dam good. The one that took out the tanks I mentioned in another post. Lets do this drake. I got my mic this time, hopefully the connection here is decent.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.04 23:26:00 - [96] - Quote Aighun wrote: Has anyone had any luck with fitting a remote rep on a dropship and repping another vehicle's shields or armor? No haven't had the skill points to spare but it's definately on my agenda.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.05 01:32:00 - [97] - Quote I just replaced the "Advanced Manuvers" post upthread with a story and my experience with drophship assaults in the weekend Corp battles.
Bogart Meecheegun Doomheim 4	Posted - 2012.09.05 02:21:00 - [98] - Quote Attack run types: Highspeed Pass: Setup your approach, choosing your specific vector and altitude; gunners move to eyes forward. Pitch into your vector and throttle up hard. Once you have a stable vector do not change pitch or roll, and keep throttle up. Gunners engage targets, preferably objectives or fixed installations. End into a Hard Break and Turn or Highspeed orbit. Drifting Pass: Set up like a high speed pass. Once over the target area, throttle down and move to level flight. You are extremely vulnerable, especially to railguns and other directfires! Very effective against LAVs and concentrations of infantry. After completing the pass, throttle up and exit. USE DISCRETION. Highspeed orbit: Pull into a broad circle around a fixed target area. Keep speed up and circle the target area while the inside gunner engages targets. Topshot orbit: The ultimate tankbuster. Move to high altitude directly above your target. Roll 90 degrees and pitch into a tight orbit above target. Adjust turn by watching the HUD. It's raining doom! Hallelujah! Very vulnerable to swarms so be sure to remain aware and be ready to break off. Also effective vrs turrets. Popup attack: Move directly behind an intervening object. Brake into a hover. Throttle up to popup. Gunner must engage and call out when enemy fire is incoming. Throttle down to evade fire. Advanced maneuver Hard Brake: Pitch up 90 degrees and throttle up hard. throttle down and resume level flight. Hard Brake and Turn: Pitch up 90 degrees and throttle up hard. throttle down and roll hard 180 degrees. Throttle up and pitch to level. Combat Landing: Perform a Hard Brake and immediately throttle down. Before hitting the ground, throttle up in bursts until drifting slightly above the ground. Throttle down to touchdown.
Bogart Meecheegun Doomheim 4	Posted - 2012.09.05 02:21:00 - [99] - Quote Skihids wrote: I just replaced the "Advanced Manuvers" post upthread with a story and my experience with drophship assaults in the weekend Corp battles. radtastical
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1898	Posted - 2012.09.05 02:23:00 - [100] - Quote Bogart Meecheegun wrote: Combat Landing: Perform a Hard Brake and immediately throttle down. Before hitting the ground, throttle up in bursts until drifting slightly above the ground. Throttle down to touchdown. Gonna give this a go, I'm so bad at landing >_< I can't tell you how many times I've landed on my side and not been able to to get the ship off the ground again =_=

Bogart Meecheegun Doomheim 4	Posted - 2012.09.05 02:34:00 - [101] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Bogart Meecheegun wrote: Combat Landing: Perform a Hard Brake and immediately throttle down. Before hitting the ground, throttle up in bursts until drifting slightly above the ground. Throttle down to touchdown. Gonna give this a go, I'm so bad at landing >_< I can't tell you how many times I've landed on my side and not been able to to get the ship off the ground again =_= you can also just get it to hover about 5 feet from the ground and jump out. We should get a post going to share and discuss DS builds. t-200,000 sp untill Prometheus liftoff. :)
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1898	Posted - 2012.09.05 02:57:00 - [102] - Quote Remind me never to fly with people who aren't on comms, there goes 1 million ISK to idiot gunners >_<
Elijah Revan 88	Posted - 2012.09.05 20:21:00 - [103] - Quote bump
YGGDRASSIL MONDE Helion Production Labs Mildly Sober 3	Posted - 2012.09.05 23:19:00 - [104] - Quote Can this be stickied already please?
Bogart Meecheegun Doomheim 4	Posted - 2012.09.05 23:54:00 - [105] - Quote So I got an awesome air to air kill today (sure my gunner gets official credit, but read on).... I'm in my Prometheus, orbiting high when i notice an enemy Eryx DS. I've got altitude and my random gunner isn't landing any shots, so I ignore him and we both happily harvest infantry kills. Eventually, we both get forced skyward by groundfire, so we start mixing it up. were both making highspeed passes trying to get the advantage. Its obvious this is going nowhere... Kitten it. I'm full shields. My autorepair is ready to go. Let's do this! I thrust hard, pitch back and make him eat my landing gear. He starts pitching and rolling, trying to get his flaming dropship under control. I kick on my repair module, pitch down and yaw left. The pilot bails before my gunner lights up the dying Eryx, killing the 2 remaining crew.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.05 23:56:00 - [106] - Quote Bogart Meecheegun wrote: So I got an awesome air to air kill today (sure my gunner gets official credit, but read on).... I'm in my Prometheus, orbiting high when i notice an enemy Eryx DS. I've got altitude and my random gunner isn't landing any shots, so I ignore him and we both happily harvest infantry kills. Eventually, we both get forced skyward by groundfire, so we start mixing it up. were both making highspeed passes trying to get the advantage. Its obvious this is going nowhere... Kitten it. I'm full shields. My autorepair is ready to go. Let's do this! I thrust hard, pitch back and make him eat my landing gear. He starts pitching and rolling, trying to get his flaming dropship under control. I kick on my repair module, pitch down and yaw left. The pilot bails before my gunner lights up the dying Eryx, killing the 2 remaining crew. nice
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.06 00:05:00 - [107] - Quote Huh, I was just about to post to this. Nice of you guys to bring it to the front page for me. So I just lost a dropship, and in considering what happened I think there are a couple lessons-learned I can pass on to my fellow fly boys. Allow me to describe the events. This match was extremely hostile to dropship play from the start. As soon as we started moving toward enemies we had swarms coming at us. The enemy team also deployed two dropships. I engaged them and I think they both died to boundary violations. We certainly didn't kill either one. From there we went hunting, but pickings were slim as I was forced to spend most of the match dodging swarms. We got a breather for a moment, enough time to pick off a Soma. After it went down I went in low so my gunner could pick off the person that fled the tank before it exploded. This was mistake number 1. A moment later a swarmer popped up from behind a ridge and launched rockets. My nose was pitched up hard, I lost altitude and began flying backwards. I began pitching my nose up and jamming R1 trying to stop (mistake 2), but slammed hard into a rock and lost the ship. Now, if you read that and thought "What was that dumbass thinking?" then good, you've identified what I did wrong. The question comes up often: "How do I stop?" and I had conditioned myself to think "When I need to stop I pitch the nose up and jam R1." But what does that ACTUALLY do? It applies acceleration toward my six o'clock. Since I was already travelling that way, I was actually exacerbating my situation. I should have pitched my nose forward, which would have helped me regain control and altitude. Lesson learned: be aware of the mechanics of your vehicle and how it works. That was the second mistake. The first mistake was going anywhere near obstacles when I know AV equipment is on the field. At speed you can evade swarms for a while, and the few that hit you won't do enough damage to cause problems. The main danger posed is actually loss of control. Even if I had not reacted poorly to losing control of my aircraft I may still have crashed simply because I had not given myself enough of a reactionary gap to bring the dropship back under control. Lesson learned: if the field is hostile don't be less then 25m from anything you can be knocked into. This was the first dropship I'd lost to enemy action all day, btw. Keep practicing if you want to be a pilot!
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2864	Posted - 2012.09.06 00:08:00 - [108] - Quote Today I have decided to take a DS for a spin supposivly a hot fix was put though (but not file updates... odd). Whatever the heck ccp did I can acutally fly the darn thing without crashing it now. Now that I said that I am probably going to start crashing again.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.06 00:14:00 - [109] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Remind me never to fly with people who aren't on comms, there goes 1 million ISK to idiot gunners >_< i lost 1.8 mil last night trying to call 3 dropships in one match that never quite made it airbourne i think there were 4 tanks on ambush plateaus one which we finally ended up trashing a second before the defeat sign came up. i was laughing hysterically from the delirium of rum and black coffee at 3:00am and a butt load of reboots.. my squad was the only 4 that hadn't raged quit and we all had pulled out advanced AV in between the failed launching of the dropships.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.06 00:15:00 - [110] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Today I have DS a spin supposivly a hot fix was put though (but not file updates... odd). Whatever the heck ccp did I can acutally fly the darn thing without crashing it now. Now that I said that I am probably going to start crashing again. ^^^ welcome aboard finally yea Sees. i learned that lesson the hard way also last night I got too confident and flew to low next to an installation, took an SL i could have tanked but the way it knocked me i had no time to recover and slammed into the vertical wall of installation before going down.

mcbob mcbob 10	Posted - 2012.09.06 01:41:00 - [111] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Remind me never to fly with people who aren't on comms, there goes 1 million ISK to idiot gunners >_< Not having comms doesn't automatically make them an idiot. It just means there will be no (or 1 sided) communication- which will make things difficult.
Tbone322 D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 124	Posted - 2012.09.06 03:04:00 - [112] - Quote So is flying really high the only way to dodge swarms and stay alive? I keep seeing people post about dodging swarms but I can't do it. The best I can do is hope to be up to speed when I hear them coming so that I can do laps until they burn out.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.06 03:21:00 - [113] - Quote Really high or really fast. If things are particularly hot, do both! Dropships have to decelerate to turn around. You can get some limited success by pitching left or right, but swarms are way more nimble than your dropship, so it won't work for long.
Bogart Meecheegun Doomheim 4	Posted - 2012.09.06 04:47:00 - [114] - Quote Just flew against Sikhids. Quality flying man.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.06 06:17:00 - [115] - Quote Bogart Meecheegun wrote: Just flew against Sikhids. Quality flying man. Was that you in the ship over the mountain map in ambush? You were my first real dogfight opponent. While it was quite exciting I felt a little bad about taking down a fellow pilot. You fought well, and I have my anonymous gunner to thank for the victory.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.09.06 06:52:00 - [116] - Quote Bogart Meecheegun wrote: Just flew against Sikhids. Quality flying man. sorry bog i was on a soft keyboard and had a buncha crap to shut down in my local i didnt mean to not reinvite you then i invited the wrong guy when i meant to reinvite you and u logged i thnk.. see u next time i hope
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2864	Posted - 2012.09.06 07:38:00 - [117] - Quote WWI Bi-planes first started out with hand waving That all ended when one guy took a pistol up with him and shot the guy he waved to the day before.
Bogart Meecheegun Doomheim 4	Posted - 2012.09.06 13:50:00 - [118] - Quote Skihids wrote: Bogart Meecheegun wrote: Just flew against Sikhids. Quality flying man. Was that you in the ship over the mountain map in ambush? You were my first real dogfight opponent. While it was quite exciting I felt a little bad about taking down a fellow pilot. You fought well, and I have my anonymous gunner to thank for the victory. Yep. I got owned by groundfire as i was moving to ram you and you pressured me out of bounds as I tried to repair and recover. I timed out after finally putting the fire out. BOOM. Textbook. You kept the altitude advantage, which was key. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicta_Boelcke <---- must read for dogfighters. Some doesn't apply to rocket propelled bricks, but still full of crucial advice @Tebow. No prob. beta kept freezing anyway.
Ekull Zekariah 117	Posted - 2012.09.08 13:48:00 - [119] - Quote Well done, Skihids. A lot of thought, effort and experience went into this guide. We appreciate the excellent step by step walkthrough to learning how to fly what can proudly be called an Eve Universe Airship now, not a Dodge'Em Plane.
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.09.08 17:12:00 - [120] - Quote Not sure if its been posted but you cant fly upside down for any length of time to make it worthwhile. Dropship just dont have da power which is a shame Would love it if they fixed this so I could really confuse my gunners. Main reason I was trying this was to get the dam wingy bits out the way and give better firing arcs to the gunners.

Daalzebul Del'Armgo D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 48	Posted - 2012.09.08 18:21:00 - [121] - Quote bumped
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.08 18:51:00 - [122] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Not sure if its been posted but you cant fly upside down for any length of time to make it worthwhile. Dropship just dont have da power which is a shame Would love it if they fixed this so I could really confuse my gunners. Main reason I was trying this was to get the dam wingy bits out the way and give better firing arcs to the gunners. Go back and reread the "Physics of Dropship Flight" post on page one. There I describe how a dropship is basically a brick held up by thrust from underneath. There is no wing to hold you up. When you flip the brick upside down you are now thrusting DOWN and aiding gravity in its quest to invite you into a new clone body. A more powerful engine would only speed up the process.
Tbone322 D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 124	Posted - 2012.09.08 22:33:00 - [123] - Quote This thread has made me love being a dropship pilot again!! I was able to use my DS for 3 games in a row until I happened upon moronic gunners that, long story short, got me killed. Great stuff in this thread!
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:12:00 - [124] - Quote Tbone322 wrote: This thread has made me love being a dropship pilot again!! I was able to use my DS for 3 games in a row until I happened upon moronic gunners that, long story short, got me killed. Great stuff in this thread! Thanks for the endorsement. I am very happy to hear that we haved helped train another pilot. Please consider stopping by the 0k0d channel in chat to find gunners and talk to other pilots. Even if there aren't any dedicated gunners in the channel other pilots might want to trade off lying and gunning with you.
Tbone322 D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 124	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:14:00 - [125] - Quote Skihids wrote: Tbone322 wrote: This thread has made me love being a dropship pilot again!! I was able to use my DS for 3 games in a row until I happened upon moronic gunners that, long story short, got me killed. Great stuff in this thread! Thanks for the endorsement. I am very happy to hear that we haved helped train another pilot. Please consider stopping by the 0k0d channel in chat to find gunners and talk to other pilots. Even if there aren't any dedicated gunners in the channel other pilots might want to trade off lying and gunning with you. Great name for a pilot channel! I'll check it out next time i log on
V4DOL Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 20	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:15:00 - [126] - Quote Are there currently skills that I as a Gunner can invest in to make me a better gunner? In Halo3 I was a pretty dedicated Warthog driver, but I have learned that driving (or in this case, flying) in Dust is much more difficult, and until I am able to spend the time to really train myself in it I make a pretty decent gunner. Ramblings. TL;DR Are there gunner skills?
V4DOL Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 20	Posted - 2012.09.08 23:55:00 - [127] - Quote Bump?
YGGDRASSIL MONDE Helion Production Labs Mildly Sober 3	Posted - 2012.09.09 02:30:00 - [128] - Quote Bump.
Jean-Henri 30	Posted - 2012.09.09 02:37:00 - [129] - Quote V4DOL wrote: Are there currently skills that I as a Gunner can invest in to make me a better gunner? In Halo3 I was a pretty dedicated Warthog driver, but I have learned that driving (or in this case, flying) in Dust is much more difficult, and until I am able to spend the time to really train myself in it I make a pretty decent gunner. Ramblings. TL;DR Are there gunner skills? fairly sure saw a DEV post saying that in a future build, turret gunner turret skills would come into play instead of how it is now, where it it pilot turret skills that affect the turrets.
Bogart Meecheegun Doomheim 4	Posted - 2012.09.09 02:59:00 - [130] - Quote REGAINING CONTROL, a beginner's guide. I've noticed lots of player talk about flipping their dropships, or losing control as they get knocked around by swarms. This guide aims to help you regain control of your ship in every instance possible. 1. Mass Effects: I've noticed that some form of mass is simulated, and my susp[icion is that mass is tied to total armor value. Higher armor=more mass. That's why attempts to ram Caldari ships with a Gallente are awesome, but the reverse is not so much. Slap some nanofibers on all a Gallente's low slots, and suddenly a sneezing can flip your ship. Always remember that stability and responsiveness are opposites; Armor value has the strongest effect, with nanofibers directly seeming to reduce mass. 2. Exert the minimum control possible. Notice that jeeps skid like crazy when you accelerate and turn? Try halving the number of inputs and you'll notice you have much more control. Likewise, when trying to get control back, don't jam the throttle, yaw, pitch and roll all at once. One correction at a time until you are level; then jam the throttle. 3. If you need control, negative throttle>positive throttle. Just like hitting the brakes. Don't forget rule 2. 4. The goal is always altitude and evasion; You'll know when you can ignore this rule, but if you've read this far, its gonna be a bit. Or not. You'll figure it out :)

V4DOL Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 20	Posted - 2012.09.13 21:26:00 - [131] - Quote Bump
Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.13 21:47:00 - [132] - Quote Bogart Meecheegun wrote: 1. Mass Effects: I've noticed that some form of mass is simulated, and my susp[icion is that mass is tied to total armor value. Higher armor=more mass. That's why attempts to ram Caldari ships with a Gallente are awesome, but the reverse is not so much. Slap some nanofibers on all a Gallente's low slots, and suddenly a sneezing can flip your ship. Always remember that stability and responsiveness are opposites; Armor value has the strongest effect, with nanofibers directly seeming to reduce mass. It's not armor HP, there is probably a mass value for each vehicle just like in EVE, the problem is it's currently hidden. Armor plates increase mass, but free armor from skills wouldn't.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.17 04:50:00 - [133] - Quote So I finally got a chance to sit down and play for a couple hours. I devoted that time to fielding cheap vipers and trying to fly them at high speed and low altitudes to get practice avoiding swarms. Has not been going well. I don't think the problem is the doctrine, I just haven't gotten the hang of the precise flying involved. Plus swarms are still super popular. Also, I managed to get really bad latency problems in a game that featured two guys with forge guns. Being stopped dead in front of guys with forge guns is not good for a dropship's structural integrity.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.09.17 05:07:00 - [134] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: So I finally got a chance to sit down and play for a couple hours. I devoted that time to fielding cheap vipers and trying to fly them at high speed and low altitudes to get practice avoiding swarms. Has not been going well. I don't think the problem is the doctrine, I just haven't gotten the hang of the precise flying involved. Plus swarms are still super popular. Also, I managed to get really bad latency problems in a game that featured two guys with forge guns. Being stopped dead in front of guys with forge guns is not good for a dropship's structural integrity. If CCP has modeled the physics correctly you quadruple your turn radius when you double your speed, so high speed slaloming is impossible. Nanos reduce your mass and mitigate that to a point. Given the wingless nature of the DS I'm of the opinion that they just don't have what it takes to dodge. Instead they need missile counter measures.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.17 06:01:00 - [135] - Quote My thought process is that by flying low I have obstacles between me and incoming swarms, so dodging becomes s pretty minor issue. Y'know, in theory.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.09.17 06:04:00 - [136] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: My thought process is that by flying low I have obstacles between me and incoming swarms, so dodging becomes s pretty minor issue. Y'know, in theory. Dodge forges. Try it. I DARE YOU!
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.09.17 07:24:00 - [137] - Quote Skihids wrote: Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Not sure if its been posted but you cant fly upside down for any length of time to make it worthwhile. Dropship just dont have da power which is a shame Would love it if they fixed this so I could really confuse my gunners. Main reason I was trying this was to get the dam wingy bits out the way and give better firing arcs to the gunners. Go back and reread the "Physics of Dropship Flight" post on page one. There I describe how a dropship is basically a brick held up by thrust from underneath. There is no wing to hold you up. When you flip the brick upside down you are now thrusting DOWN and aiding gravity in its quest to invite you into a new clone body. A more powerful engine would only speed up the process. Lol I was not thrusting down I reversed thrust when upside down to give me abit more time while inverted. You have so little downard thrust but you do have some its just not enuf to keep you up while upside down. As for a wing lol i mean the little stubbs on the eryx that all the gunners feel the need to shoot and no i dont think thye gave me lift. Only even tried this because you can down thrust and beat a merc who just jumped out to the ground and thats what gave me the idea.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.09.17 09:50:00 - [138] - Quote Very useful guide, needs a sticky. Will probably check out the channel when I actually get a mic :D
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.17 12:39:00 - [139] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Sees-Too-Much wrote: My thought process is that by flying low I have obstacles between me and incoming swarms, so dodging becomes s pretty minor issue. Y'know, in theory. Dodge forges. Try it. I DARE YOU! I was actually doing okay with avoiding the forges until I hit a lag spike.
STB-DropTroop EV 11	Posted - 2012.09.21 16:44:00 - [140] - Quote Being a hardcore pilot in any game that has fighters, heli's and dropships. (Warhawk, BF3, BF 1943/2, BF modern combat, Star Wars Battlefront 1/2, etc.) I can do good in dropships naturally. I have no problems flying except for maybe keeping it steady when being fired at from all around. The only thing I hate is that 1 mag of swarm and I'm down, does anyone else think there should be a seperate launcher for air vehicles? Or at least a way to dodge or outrun them?

Rusty Shallows Creative Killers 11	Posted - 2012.10.29 18:06:00 - [141] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: Also, I managed to get really bad latency problems in a game that featured two guys with forge guns. Being stopped dead in front of guys with forge guns is not good for a dropship's structural integrity. Lag is my killer, even with a gentle touch it doesn't take much to fly off and hit a building for no good reason. I'm going to chill until the next build and try DS again. As for Swarms mine can hit when the DS is slowly flying right at me or lingers in an confined area. As the SF saying goes, "Speed equals Security." For pilots it isn't as scary as the last two builds when a door gunner spots (calls out) a swarm launch and it meant evasive maneuver time.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.10.29 18:10:00 - [142] - Quote Skihids has this thread been linked in the new Training forum? Seems like it would fit right in there and be easier to locate for Mercs new to piloting. Cheers, Cross
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.10.29 19:33:00 - [143] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Skihids has this thread been linked in the new Training forum? Seems like it would fit right in there and be easier to locate for Mercs new to piloting. Cheers, Cross I hadn't noticed the new Training forum until you mentioned it right now. It appears someone has already taken care of the link.
kyan west D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:17:00 - [144] - Quote can you compare the dropship flight to helicopter flight in battlefield 3?
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.11.01 04:31:00 - [145] - Quote kyan west wrote: can you compare the dropship flight to helicopter flight in battlefield 3? Not personally as I've never flown in BF3. However I would guess that you can perform a real banked turn in BF3 if they modeled helicopters correctly.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.01 16:19:00 - [146] - Quote Slightly turn the analog stick and fly in a big circle ???????? Profit
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.11.01 18:57:00 - [147] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Slightly turn the analog stick and fly in a big circle ???????? Profit This is a training thread. Please use one of the dozen ds/sl threads in the general discussion or feedback sections to discuss balance issues.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.11.05 23:47:00 - [148] - Quote I've consolidated a couple of the orginal posts and shifted them up to make room for a two post thread on "Surviving Combat". Let me know what you think, and if you have any suggestions for improvement.
Mike Krieger Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2012.11.28 01:28:00 - [149] - Quote First off, thanks for the advice! It's helped me immensely in figuring out the flying mechanics the last few days. I've found that flying is actually one of my favorite things to do in this game, which might not have been the case if my first experience with it was flipping the bird upside down and crashing into a mountain. I'm curious if your build advice still stands? I'm running a Myron at the moment as well, but I've been hearing that some recent patches changed dropship damage capabilities, missiles specifically. That and some posts seem to paint this as a horrible time to be a pilot. I'm also curious what kind of dropsuit you'd recommend as a pilot, since they haven't instituted pilot suits yet. I've just been running as a Logi when I'm on the ground or when I find myself trying to conserve ISK. Does it even matter at all?
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.11.28 05:12:00 - [150] - Quote Mike Krieger wrote: First off, thanks for the advice! It's helped me immensely in figuring out the flying mechanics the last few days. I've found that flying is actually one of my favorite things to do in this game, which might not have been the case if my first experience with it was flipping the bird upside down and crashing into a mountain. I'm curious if your build advice still stands? I'm running a Myron at the moment as well, but I've been hearing that some recent patches changed dropship damage capabilities, missiles specifically. That and some posts seem to paint this as a horrible time to be a pilot. I'm also curious what kind of dropsuit you'd recommend as a pilot, since they haven't instituted pilot suits yet. I've just been running as a Logi when I'm on the ground or when I find myself trying to conserve ISK. Does it even matter at all? Thanks for the feedback. I'm pleased to increase the ranks of passionate pilots, let's make our voices heard so flying is a valued role in DUST. I'll be honest, dropships aren't particularly profitable here at the tail end of Codex. That said, I am optimistic that future builds will turn that around. My advice would be to continue to practice in the safety of your spawn to hone your player skill. We can still reach the roof of the base buildings so you can use those for spot landing practice. The best Myron fitting is three Azotropic Shield Extenders and one Clarity Ward Shield Booster in the highs. You should survive exploring the battlefield with that when you get bored with your spawn. Just don't loiter too long in any one spot. Small Missile turrets are still your best offense as bad as they are. Good gunners can get some kills, but be aware that you are the equivalent of a heavy sporting a Scrambler pistol. I fit two 20% damage modules for them. When I flew in Ambush matches I would wear a Scout suit with a drop uplink. That would let me run to safety and let my squad mates spawn in to be my gunners without having to fit a CRU. In skirmish I wear Assault in case I get shot down and survive bailing out. I might get lucky and kill the forge gunner who took me out. Logi with a rep tool is also a good choice.

Mike Krieger Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2012.11.28 05:39:00 - [151] - Quote Skihids wrote: [quote=Mike Krieger]When I flew in Ambush matches I would wear a Scout suit with a drop uplink. That would let me run to safety and let my squad mates spawn in to be my gunners without having to fit a CRU. In skirmish I wear Assault in case I get shot down and survive bailing out. I might get lucky and kill the forge gunner who took me out. Logi with a rep tool is also a good choice. I went with Logi mostly 'cause of the rep tool. Figured I could use the rep tool to touch down in a safe zone and manually repair my armor while everyone gathered for another push. With most of the HP of the dropship coming from the shields, though, it doesn't really seem like as valuable a notion. I think I'll invest in a Scout suit, actually, for when I know that I'm just going to be piloting, then switch to Logi if I'm running ground support. I'm too terrible a shot to even consider any sort of assault suit. X.x
Varnava Satrap 0	Posted - 2012.12.01 04:05:00 - [152] - Quote Thanks a lot on this writings, it made me wanna try Dropship. Also I think text like this would be nice addition to Dust University's Wiki page, once and if it goes online -- or they just add it in already existing Eve Uni's Wiki when NDA is down. Now, I created a new char to test it out, and I wonder as I see you all mention "Viper" in previous posts, did old builds have Militia/free version of DS like there is one LAV? Also, while we all know how CCP favors shields over armour in EVE, it also seems to be case in DUST as well: I see here a pilot of Prometheus is talking how he uses shieled, on a boat that should naturally be armour tanked and while passive shield tanking on armour ships in EVE is not unknown praxis, I wonder is it a rule or armour is that bad (at this stage)? I always preferred armour in EVE and tbh one of the reasons is why everyone goes shield, so there is a certain flare to pick it up, and I am almost sure I want to go that route in DUST too. How good armour actually is, and is it possible to add to OP additional info regarding armour-tanking fits. Cheers!
Mike Krieger Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2012.12.01 23:35:00 - [153] - Quote Varnava Satrap wrote: Now, I created a new char to test it out, and I wonder as I see you all mention "Viper" in previous posts, did old builds have Militia/free version of DS like there is one LAV? The Viper IS the militia version, along with its sister the Gorgon. At the moment, they're both about 70k cheaper than the regular dropships, which run about 220k stripped bare. I was lucky enough to do most of my flight training when vehicles were half off during the 'Get Isk or Die Trying' promotion. 75k for a training dropship is much more reasonable. I know they had an AUR version of the Viper and the Gorgon, but they don't seem to be there anymore. The AUR version was a great way to get a fairly cheap training vessel, but that's not really an option now. Either way, putting down 150k for training purposes at least gets you in the mindset of how pricey it is to run a dropship. It costs me about 550k to restock one Myron fully kitted out. Varnava Satrap wrote: Also, while we all know how CCP favors shields over armour in EVE, it also seems to be case in DUST as well: I see here a pilot of Prometheus is talking how he uses shieled, on a boat that should naturally be armour tanked and while passive shield tanking on armour ships in EVE is not unknown praxis, I wonder is it a rule or armour is that bad (at this stage)? I use shields for the Myron 'cause that seems to be the way that particular dropship was designed. There seems to be one armor tanking dropship and one shield tanking dropship per rank. I prefer the shield tank simply 'cause it fits the stick and move style of flight I'm used to. I see HAVs using armor tanking to the best effect. I run as a gunner for an HAV pretty often and he always survives to the end of the match. It makes sense for them, though, since they're the 'heavies' of the vehicle world. The Prometheus SHOULD be an armor tanker, but he might not have the required skill for armor mods at the moment. Not really sure why else you'd go with shields for that, since the other CRU ship in that class (can't remember the name at the moment) has much better shield regeneration and shield hp.
Axierastos Satrap 4	Posted - 2012.12.04 19:24:00 - [154] - Quote Thanks for the info. Btw, is there any chance for Gorgon/Viper, even properly (hardskin) fitted to survive red-line-HAVs onceshot? I guess yes only if one is skilled up enough. EDIT: Also, do you think fitting Active Scanner make sense, as one does not fight while learn to flight DS -- this way at leas tsomehow is of benefit to his team.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.12.06 05:54:00 - [155] - Quote Axierastos Satrap wrote: Thanks for the info. Btw, is there any chance for Gorgon/Viper, even properly (hardskin) fitted to survive red-line-HAVs onceshot? I guess yes only if one is skilled up enough. EDIT: Also, do you think fitting Active Scanner make sense, as one does not fight while learn to flight DS -- this way at leas tsomehow is of benefit to his team. I'd like to hear how effective active scanners are when fitted on a dropship. I haven't seen a detailed enough description of how they operate to have any idea.
Kail Danyal Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.12.08 20:29:00 - [156] - Quote Excellent! I appreciate all the info. I've been putting my skills into vehicle use, especially for the Dropship, but have had a hard time getting the hang of just flying. The first time I jumped in and lifted off and was immediately sent topsy turvy into the ground and crashed due to a swarmer. I couldnt regain control and that was it. Sort of anticlimatic, especially given that I'd spent a bunch of ISK outfitting it, sigh. I wish there was some kind of VR training room or something just so I could get the hang of flying without then becoming deadweight for the team while practicing in the middle of a battle. Thanks for the tips, this will put me one step closer to being a full time pilot!
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2012.12.08 22:48:00 - [157] - Quote Kail Danyal wrote: Excellent! I appreciate all the info. I've been putting my skills into vehicle use, especially for the Dropship, but have had a hard time getting the hang of just flying. The first time I jumped in and lifted off and was immediately sent topsy turvy into the ground and crashed due to a swarmer. I couldnt regain control and that was it. Sort of anticlimatic, especially given that I'd spent a bunch of ISK outfitting it, sigh. I wish there was some kind of VR training room or something just so I could get the hang of flying without then becoming deadweight for the team while practicing in the middle of a battle. Thanks for the tips, this will put me one step closer to being a full time pilot! Try for Manus Peak Skirmish mode. Your spawn area is large and safe enough to practice in. Don't risk a combat area, especially at this point in the Codex build. Folk's will just chuckle and haul out swarms or use you for FG practice. Even good pilots aren't flying right now.
Banjo Hero BurgezzE.T.F 17	Posted - 2012.12.13 15:31:00 - [158] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sees-Too-Much wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sooo... how do I stop rolling on lift off? If you're holding down L1 and not touching the left stick you should go more-or-less straight up. Shouldn't be any rolling. Which probably further confirms my stick sensitivity is bugged. I don't know, of course, but I'd guess it's probably more broken than bugged. I have seen friends' XBox controllers that have taken one drop too many get a little "loose" with the sticks - like, the neutral, centered position includes just a touch of one of the sides or another. End result, your Halo guy (remember, they're XBox controllers) constantly turns slowly to the right or creeps forward or whatever, until you put the stick back to center yourself. Now, I haven't seen that -specific- problem with my PS3 controllers (the one I have that has fallen too many times just does goddam phantom button presses of all sorts. Insanely frustrating, even to watch a movie with it. Sometimes I'll pick it up to pause or maybe go back a little, and WHAM! beginning of the flick or something. annoying.) but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Maybe you have a newer controller to test? Or a friend has a new one you can borrow or something? Anyway, good luck with it.
Thranx1231 CowTek 90	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:40:00 - [159] - Quote I have three characters currently and this dude is my assault and is heading towards heavy. My other main is a logi based sniper/assault and is doing well. But considering this post I have my last character I just put together the other day as a logi based. I am planning on that one being a pilot. I can earn a million ISK by just logi and assault grinding. I plan on focusing most of the SP into the pilot choices. I would love some advice before I start burning the extra valuable SP what skills my pilot should focus on. And I am planning on putting a cheap DS for flight testing first. Irony thy name is CCP and this guy has five DS as salvage.
Scarllett nightbane Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.12.19 00:06:00 - [160] - Quote thanks for all the awesome info

G Torq ALTA B2O 88	Posted - 2012.12.31 19:42:00 - [161] - Quote bump - want to see more Dropships in the skies...
Shari Lannister Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2012.12.31 21:42:00 - [162] - Quote How are Joysticks to use? always been good at playing flight sims/Helicopter games. Even spent some time behind the pilot seat of a real helicopter. Is it easier or harder to use a joystick for flying?
Jak Teston Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 99	Posted - 2013.01.01 00:05:00 - [163] - Quote I recently noticed that my Grimsnes had a high slot and come CPU to spare. After a little investigation I found the active scanning module on the market and tried it out, just for fun. On the next suitable match (at Manus Peak) I picked up a random blue dot as a gunner and went hunting for infiltrators. I saw a supply depot turned red and flew there quickly at low altitude. Engaged the scanner and looked on the radar for the red dot. The gunner did the rest. Wait, repeat, end of match. With some buffs to scanning precision and range that could actually be a suitable tactic for dropships. The best scanner has a base range of 100 meters and a precision of 45 dB I think. That means assault suits (profile 50 dB) should have a very tough time avoiding detection at rather large distances. ...Of course the same scanner can also be mounted on an LAV that has a better survivability than a DS. Also all of this needs confirmation. It's completely possible that I picked up the red dots with the passive scanner.
Thranx1231 CowTek 90	Posted - 2013.01.01 03:06:00 - [164] - Quote Shari Lannister wrote: How are Joysticks to use? always been good at playing flight sims/Helicopter games. Even spent some time behind the pilot seat of a real helicopter. Is it easier or harder to use a joystick for flying? That might explain the two DSs that dropped out of the sky today. They obviously did not read this instruction manual. For what it is worth, it does remind me a little of a helicopter (game versions only) but the control sensitivity can get you killed in a heartbeat. I did get to see a good pilot come in at 45 degrees touch down and collect me up. Dropped me off to hack. Just like it was supposed to work. I jumped in another one and the merc flipped it so fast we never got away from the landing zone. Seriously, after crashing two ships then reading this I got in and flew laps around a map the first time. Just small adjustments until you know what it is going to do. Of course, the very first red berry that saw me flying around with nobody else on the map spawned in with a swarm and I was toast. I don't use KB/M so I cannot tell you the difference. "Cough", Game Controller, "cough" are just what I prefer. My wrists don't like that much time at the keyboard these days.
XXfootnoteXX ZionTCD Legacy Rising 76	Posted - 2013.01.02 21:21:00 - [165] - Quote Thranx1231 wrote: Shari Lannister wrote: How are Joysticks to use? always been good at playing flight sims/Helicopter games. Even spent some time behind the pilot seat of a real helicopter. Is it easier or harder to use a joystick for flying? That might explain the two DSs that dropped out of the sky today. They obviously did not read this instruction manual. For what it is worth, it does remind me a little of a helicopter (game versions only) but the control sensitivity can get you killed in a heartbeat. I did get to see a good pilot come in at 45 degrees touch down and collect me up. Dropped me off to hack. Just like it was supposed to work. I jumped in another one and the merc flipped it so fast we never got away from the landing zone. Seriously, after crashing two ships then reading this I got in and flew laps around a map the first time. Just small adjustments until you know what it is going to do. Of course, the very first red berry that saw me flying around with nobody else on the map spawned in with a swarm and I was toast. I don't use KB/M so I cannot tell you the difference. "Cough", Game Controller, "cough" are just what I prefer. My wrists don't like that much time at the keyboard these days. I was on my third DS before I started getting the hang of it. Its still iffy but at least now I know what I am screwing up when I do screw up. As far as the joystick goes, I have no idea, I imagine it would heavily depend on the joystick. Personally I will keep up with normal controller.
Jak Teston Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 99	Posted - 2013.01.03 12:55:00 - [166] - Quote By the way, here's a little gem for aspiring dropship pilots: Have a forge gun dropsuit and use it to bring down turrets. And don't bring a dropship until all of them are down, even those currently captured by your team. Those railgun turrets sure hurt a lot and there's next to no cover from them.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2013.01.07 09:39:00 - [167] - Quote once you get really good try doing a loop or a barrel roll. Loops easy, barrel roll not so much but both can be done and are nothing but pointless showing off
Hunter Junko WARRIORS 1NC 45	Posted - 2013.01.14 02:05:00 - [168] - Quote Skihids, thanks for the really helpful guide on flight, been flying a few matches in them without losing a dropship
Raph Zetter World Eaterz 15	Posted - 2013.01.17 16:19:00 - [169] - Quote I've been reading that missile launchers are no longer the weapon of choice due to a nerf (and that's certainly my experience when manning tank & buggy turrets. Are blasters the way to go now?
arimal lavaren L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 186	Posted - 2013.01.17 20:59:00 - [170] - Quote We're still experimenting but low altitude passes with a certain small blaster have in a few instances resulted in many dead raspberries.

VicBoss Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 135	Posted - 2013.01.22 03:12:00 - [171] - Quote Just asking OP could this be used for a tutorial on the Immortal Mercenary Press Newspaper? Its a good tutorial on dropships and i think it would be beneficial to many people if it could be reposted on the online newspaper, of course the credit would be given to you. Thanks
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2013.01.25 10:36:00 - [172] - Quote I just tried out my first dropship of the Open Beta - one of nine Vipers that I had stocked up for a nice, open match. BTW, I haven't climbed in one since Precursor. I found such a match in Manus Peak Skirmish, spawning on B (attacker) side - a nice long redzone to play with. Precursor-era flight behavior is still used, but the craft is far faster and more stable. As a result, I was able to keep it right-side up, fly at a good clip, and even recover from a Swarm Launcher's applied torque with little more than instinct. Even so, next time i'll peruse this thread before throttling up the nacelles again. Now my fit was pure militia, but it was still expensive - about 180k total IIRC - nothing a good match won't fix. I swapped the missile launchers for Blasters, then used twin resistance amps alongside the stock shield booster. Impressively, this was enough to completely tank a single Swarm user - I only had to retreat when a second arrived on the field. A Forge Gun would have likely destroyed my ship in two shots, however. My ride ended when, trying to get away from the twin swarmers, I landed on one of Manus Peak's signature rocky spires - which was an insta-kill.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2013.01.25 18:32:00 - [173] - Quote VicBoss wrote: Just asking OP could this be used for a tutorial on the Immortal Mercenary Press Newspaper? Its a good tutorial on dropships and i think it would be beneficial to many people if it could be reposted on the online newspaper, of course the credit would be given to you. Thanks You may certainly republish this tutorial. My goal is to help train the first generation of DUST pilots and advocate for a deeper and more rewarding role in the skies. Pilots should have as deep a skill tree as the ground pounders. I'm also currently scripting a video tutorial that should be a little more clear and effective as I can include flight footage and diagrams to make the points clear. I'm taking my time to get it right and make it more than just a montage of me flying around. Feel free to post or drop me mail in game if you have thoughts on what I can include that would make things clear for a beginner (i.e. things you still had to figure out for yourself after reading this tutorial).
ghgfggggggbvc Doomheim 5	Posted - 2013.01.26 01:13:00 - [174] - Quote thank you skihids, read this then went out and got a couple of vipers to try out. this helped a lot and kept me in the air longer than i expected to last.
Cody Sietz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2013.01.26 03:16:00 - [175] - Quote I read this back when I first started playing...and I had no idea we were in the same corp till just now. Your the only reason I even know how to get off the ground. Thank you for this, Skihids.
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative 47	Posted - 2013.01.27 21:28:00 - [176] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I read this back when I first started playing...and I had no idea we were in the same corp till just now. Your the only reason I even know how to get off the ground. Thank you for this, Skihids. Technically speaking he never does discuss which button is the throttle :P
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2013.01.28 18:01:00 - [177] - Quote Halador Osiris wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: I read this back when I first started playing...and I had no idea we were in the same corp till just now. Your the only reason I even know how to get off the ground. Thank you for this, Skihids. Technically speaking he never does discuss which button is the throttle :P Thanks for the feedback, I will be sure to include that in my video tutorial. It's meaningful to me because the one time I got into a dropship in the E3 build I was blown up on the ground for lack of knowing L1 was "Advance Throttle".
CPL Bloodstone SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 13	Posted - 2013.01.28 18:56:00 - [178] - Quote I must say i liked this article. I can fly like a mofo now. Im not doing barrell rolls from the zillion militia swarms coming at me anymore. Though i did crash my drop ship cause i hit a light pole, them things are made out of titanium! I think alot of people dont like flying cause A) there difficult to fly (not really anymore now that i got the hang of it) B) there a giant becon that says hit me with a billion militia swarms C) most clones dont know its a great place to spawn, then drop from above on control points. D) unless you have an experienced gunner with you, you dont get hardly any SP/ISK I do enjoy flying though and it greatly helps the team if they actually use it apropriately There is no throttle, only volicity injectors
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative 47	Posted - 2013.01.29 02:20:00 - [179] - Quote CPL Bloodstone wrote: I think alot of people dont like flying cause A) there difficult to fly (not really anymore now that i got the hang of it) B) there a giant becon that says hit me with a billion militia swarms C) most clones dont know its a great place to spawn, then drop from above on control points. D) unless you have an experienced gunner with you, you dont get hardly any SP/ISK This a thousand times. I honestly don't feel like the flight mechanics or bump damage need any changing, I like flying to be hard. I'm good at it. I just wish there was 1) a higher ceiling + bigger maps; and 2) swarm launchers weren't free and in a starter build. If I fly around for more than a few minutes, I have people shooting me from multiple places. I've got enough trouble with forge guns, railgun installations, LAV's, and more. I don't need them handing out free rockets :( My Myron costs about 415,000 ISK right now. I don't spend ANY money on dropsuits, and I don't feel like my team understands just how useful I am. It kinda hurts when I have to play like 3 matches to even buy one of these...
Cody Sietz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2013.02.02 03:54:00 - [180] - Quote Bump

acidna The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1	Posted - 2013.02.05 05:46:00 - [181] - Quote Is it possible for a Corp to set up a training ground that allows pilots and crews to be trained. This could be lead by an experienced pilot. It would be nice to: Have some form of market where the instructor (aka Squad Leader) gets some form of compensation.
Ivar Thule HERBGROWERS 0	Posted - 2013.02.07 21:28:00 - [182] - Quote I have to say thank you for creating this guide good sir. Though I'm not making high speed drops or spinning laps around HAV's, thanks to reading this guide I've improved. Before I lost maybe 20 birds trying to practice flying DS, but after reading this I've lost only 2 so far. Once again, thank you, and should we ever meet in a random skirmish I'll gladly fly you wherever you need to go.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries 81	Posted - 2013.02.10 11:14:00 - [183] - Quote I thought i mught post something hear to help out the aspiring pilots, I decided to do tis after flying with a few pilots of the 0k0d channel and tbh everyone of them in my opinion had totally went the wrong way about loading out their ships, now you might wonder what makes me think my opinion valid , well after flying with four different pilots i was the only one not to bew shot down over the course of five games , this only applys to the caldari ships as i think the armour ships are a wast of time The fitting VIPER 1) Light clarity ward shied booster 2) astropic shield extender 3) astropic shield extender 4)power diognostic system 5) power diognostic system This will bulk up your shields dramaticly and increase your survivability Myron 1) Light clarity ward shield booster 2)astropic shield extender 3)astropic shield extender 4)astropic shield extender 5) wepon upgrade 6) power expansion unit This will really increase your survivability I have seen too many pilots waste their isk on resistance amplifiers and rechargers ect , this is a mistake when fitting a drop ship IT'S NOT A TANK. you go in get the squad droped off get a few kills for your gunners and get out so maximising your shields is crutial for survival, i tend to get out and return to my safe zone if my myron looses 1000+ hp on the shields and with my fit you have more than 4000 shields on take off so its crutial to know when to run . for the wepons i usually run with either the stabalised blaster or the neutron blaster , with a cyclic missile launcher. I hope this helps
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2013.02.11 05:23:00 - [184] - Quote My reward is to see more trained DUST pilots who will pool their voices to demand a role equal to that of the ground pounders. Implore CCP to give us the same depth and breadth of skill tree and equipment that infantry gets and you will make my day.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2013.02.12 21:23:00 - [185] - Quote For those trying to understand the best fit: Assumptions 1) you have the PG and CPU to fit whatever module you want 2) you are trying to maximize total eHP [effective HP = HP * (1+hardener)] for each slot This means you want: MAX ( the best extender, current HP * (1 + the best hardener) ) Assuming we are going passive those numbers are 748HP and current HP * 1.15 How much total HP would we need before 15% of it would be equal to 748? 0.15 * X = 748 Or X = 748 / 0.15 Or 4,987 HP So you keep stacking Shield Extenders until you reach that number, after which you stack hardeners. For the Myron that means all Extenders. Now if you don't have the fitting requirements you would be forced to use the lower cost module which means a hardener, but you know that it is a sub-optimal choice. If you decide you want active hardeners the number is 0.3 which gives you a threshold of 2,494 HP to beat. My personal calculations add 15% of a typical FG hit to account for the surprise strike when you don't have it activated. That once again leads to all extenders. Well all extenders and one Booster. The Booster is worth one extender after it completes its short active cycle. If you have enough tank, that short time won't be a big drawback. The huge upside is that it gives you an effective recharge rate far exceeding the passive rate even when skilled all the way up. That means you won't have to sit out half the match nursing your wounds. You need a decent tank, so that generally means only one booster. Too many at the expense of a deep tank and you risk going down before you can activate all your boosters.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries 81	Posted - 2013.02.13 08:07:00 - [186] - Quote I have been preaching to other pilots for some time now about the use of extenders for their shields but too many think that hardners are the way to go , as i have said befor this is a mistake when fitting a drop ship as its not a tank the above post is spot on when it mentions putting the max extenders on and boosting your shield controll to the max if you want to survive as a pilot. Dropships are ment for quick inns and drop offs getting your gunners a few kills each in the prosess is also part of it but dont hang arround in the same place for more than 5 or 6 kills or you will get shot down. As i said befor my myron flys out with over 4000 shields and the only thing that takes me down these days is gliching out or sir meods tank .
Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 39	Posted - 2013.02.14 19:37:00 - [187] - Quote Came across a really excellent Myron pilot today in a public match, it shrugged off me and a teammates attempts to take it down with AV and rained down HMG wielding heavies on to capture points. I assumed it was fit with 3 extenders + an active shield hardener (presumably a 30% resistance one) Every time it went to drop off team mates at a capture point it would activate its hardener allowing it to shrug off swarm launcher missiles and forge gun blasts then quickly retreat before its shield hardener finished its cycle. It was incredibly effective and we were unable to take it out with traditional AV spam. It did land near my tank later in the match for whatever reason and ended up getting destroyed, even then I overheated my blaster turret firing at it and it took another forge round to finish it off.
Lonnar KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 15	Posted - 2013.02.14 20:26:00 - [188] - Quote This certainly gives me some food for thought. I need to get out there and practice my flying some more. Hopefully this time, after reading this, I won't loose as many birds during my runs
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 25	Posted - 2013.02.15 22:13:00 - [189] - Quote Kesi Raae Kaae wrote: Every time it went to drop off team mates at a capture point it would activate its hardener allowing it to shrug off swarm launcher missiles and forge gun blasts then quickly retreat before its shield hardener finished its cycle. It was incredibly effective and we were unable to take it out with traditional AV spam. I presume a combination of hardeners for the approach and overdrives for the escape could make the dropship more useful than plain buffer loadouts. Armor dropships would be very well suited for this since the overdrive uses a high-slot.
Delirium Inferno Chernova Industries 34	Posted - 2013.02.16 09:59:00 - [190] - Quote As someone who specialized in better swarm launchers, I have to say the most annoying thing is after burners. Having a ton of HP is nice but I can crack through even the hardest shields/armor given enough shots, but I can't do anything to those pilots with after burners who instantly get way beyond my range.

Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 39	Posted - 2013.02.23 14:09:00 - [191] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: As someone who specialized in better swarm launchers, I have to say the most annoying thing is after burners. Having a ton of HP is nice but I can crack through even the hardest shields/armor given enough shots, but I can't do anything to those pilots with after burners who instantly get way beyond my range. Definitely what I'm finding as well, even shield dropships would benefit from fitting an afterburner instead of more buffer.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 371	Posted - 2013.02.23 16:02:00 - [192] - Quote Kesi Raae Kaae wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: As someone who specialized in better swarm launchers, I have to say the most annoying thing is after burners. Having a ton of HP is nice but I can crack through even the hardest shields/armor given enough shots, but I can't do anything to those pilots with after burners who instantly get way beyond my range. Definitely what I'm finding as well, even shield dropships would benefit from fitting an afterburner instead of more buffer. I run myrons with a resistance amplifier, afterburner, supplemental extender, and a surge shield hardener, my shield tank is quite low but the hardener allows me to get a 40% defense bonus before the swarms hit, so the damage I'm getting is negligible so I rarely have to activate my armour repper, these days the only times I lose dropships is when i get hit by a load of AV simultaneously or the AV sends me flying into something
antonius Aquila Like a Boss. 0	Posted - 2013.02.25 23:27:00 - [193] - Quote Nice post, greatly appreciated! Learning took a little while. Luck was a BIG factor when it came to me navigating the skies
SteelDark Knight Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2013.03.12 02:34:00 - [194] - Quote Still a great guide for aspiring DS pilots.
Rick Eagleton Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 0	Posted - 2013.03.12 03:08:00 - [195] - Quote This is a very helpful guide to Dropship operations. I thank you all very much
Tamori Orn Ordus Trismegistus 4	Posted - 2013.03.19 08:08:00 - [196] - Quote Thanks, Skihids and the other commenters on this thread. One note for other beginners: The Viper is easier to learn the flight mechanics on than a plated Gorgon. I was stubborn and tried to armor tank first. Now that I am putting time in on the Viper, I am a much better Gorgon pilot for it.
Mithridates VI Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.03.19 08:51:00 - [197] - Quote Tamori Orn wrote: Thanks, Skihids and the other commenters on this thread. One note for other beginners: The Viper is easier to learn the flight mechanics on than a plated Gorgon. I was stubborn and tried to armor tank first. Now that I am putting time in on the Viper, I am a much better Gorgon pilot for it. This is good advice. Also, the Viper is less likely to roll over on deployment due to a flat bottom.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 40	Posted - 2013.03.23 14:56:00 - [198] - Quote gbghg wrote: I run myrons with a resistance amplifier, afterburner, supplemental extender, and a surge shield hardener, my shield tank is quite low but the hardener allows me to get a 40% defense bonus before the swarms hit, so the damage I'm getting is negligible so I rarely have to activate my armour repper, these days the only times I lose dropships is when i get hit by a load of AV simultaneously or the AV sends me flying into something I think the proverbial proof of the pudding for every DS-pilot is exactly in those moments when you get hit by combined fire. Either you stay up long enough to get out of there or you don't.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 789	Posted - 2013.03.23 16:51:00 - [199] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: gbghg wrote: I run myrons with a resistance amplifier, afterburner, supplemental extender, and a surge shield hardener, my shield tank is quite low but the hardener allows me to get a 40% defense bonus before the swarms hit, so the damage I'm getting is negligible so I rarely have to activate my armour repper, these days the only times I lose dropships is when i get hit by a load of AV simultaneously or the AV sends me flying into something I think the proverbial proof of the pudding for every DS-pilot is exactly in those moments when you get hit by combined fire. Either you stay up long enough to get out of there or you don't. I've switched over to the grim these days and i'm running dual armour reppers for just those moments, one time it took 4 people with swarms spamming me with missiles to put me down thank to the reps, what's annoying is that i could have escaped the missle that killed me if i had the pre nerf afterburner
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 41	Posted - 2013.03.24 13:30:00 - [200] - Quote What are your strategies against HAVs? I recently had a blueberry gunner aim proto-missiles at a armor-tanked blaster-HAV. That worked pretty well, but it requires floating above the HAV for an extended period of time. By the way, even a buffer-tanked Grimsnes at almost 6000 eHP gets One-Hit-Killed by a railgun tank, so watch the killfeed, pilots.

gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 807	Posted - 2013.03.24 13:50:00 - [201] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: What are your strategies against HAVs? I recently had a blueberry gunner aim proto-missiles at a armor-tanked blaster-HAV. That worked pretty well, but it requires floating above the HAV for an extended period of time. By the way, even a buffer-tanked Grimsnes at almost 6000 eHP gets One-Hit-Killed by a railgun tank, so watch the killfeed, pilots. whenever i lose a dropship to tanks i pull out my AV fit and go and get revenge
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 42	Posted - 2013.03.24 21:24:00 - [202] - Quote That particular exemplar of bravery was parked so deeply in his own redzone no AV weapon could reach him. I even dropped a precision strike on him, but that didn't kill his tank. We won the round anyway. I'm just wondering how to approach tanks in a more general manner. Today I tanked a number of railgun installation shots and forgegun shots. Things are looking good.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 807	Posted - 2013.03.24 22:00:00 - [203] - Quote so was mine, but he left the redline to go and get some kills. He didn't make it back
Skihids The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 1245	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:41:00 - [204] - Quote I'm working on a full rewrite of this guide for Uprising as there are enough changes to warrant it. I'll also be adding a few diagrams to better explain the flight physics. I know that I learn better with diagrams and I figure other folks do too. I hope to post the initial guide over the weekend. Meanwhile, the sections on flight physics and initial training still holds. Add any specific topics you would like to see addressed here and I will include it in the rewrite.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1454	Posted - 2013.05.07 09:55:00 - [205] - Quote Flight ceiling is around 500 metres FYI, only tested it on a couple of maps though.
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 271	Posted - 2013.05.07 19:42:00 - [206] - Quote Skihids, could you hit on missiles VS blasters on ADS front turrets? I've used the militia variants and was a die-hard fan of the stabilized blaster in chromosome, but I refuse to spend any SP into it until I hear some outside opinions.
Skihids The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 1246	Posted - 2013.05.07 20:20:00 - [207] - Quote Halador Osiris wrote: Skihids, could you hit on missiles VS blasters on ADS front turrets? I've used the militia variants and was a die-hard fan of the stabilized blaster in chromosome, but I refuse to spend any SP into it until I hear some outside opinions. I do plan on a complete fitting section for new pilots. I'll give it a try myself if others don't beat me to the punch. I was going to save the SP it would take to skill Hybrid turrets, but the skills are fairly cheap since Prof was removed. Meanwhile, how do people feel about going double Shield Booster over one with the AB? I built a Myron that way in the last build so I could linger longer in battle, but I didn't get enough data to evaluate its success or failure. Or perhaps you like to go pure passive tank with a full compliment of extenders? Personally I don't have the patience to sit out of battle long enough to get a deep tank built back up passively, but with the price of the ADS we have to be somewhat conservative.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1467	Posted - 2013.05.07 20:31:00 - [208] - Quote I tried ion boasters, cycled missiles, and 20gj compressed rail guns(just picked a random railgun, never used them so i don't know the benefits of the various types)on the front turret. Cycled missiles were the clear winner IMO, easiest to aim by far, that tiny reticule for boasters and rail guns is almost impossible to use. And boasters have crap range forcing you to get quite close, and railguns need a pretty stable platform to hit things effectively, and both suffer from overheat while missiles don't. That's just my opinion though,you might want to try it for yourself.
Skihids The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 1246	Posted - 2013.05.07 20:36:00 - [209] - Quote That was my thinking to from having used both blasters and rails as a gunner on tanks and other dropships. Missiles are the one weapon combining splash damage with the ability to fire an move on. Rails let you hit and run, but require precise aim for direct hits and blasters demand you linger on target too long. Doing that for my gunners cost me many a ship in the last build.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1468	Posted - 2013.05.07 21:03:00 - [210] - Quote only blasters i ever found that effective in the last build were proto scattered, and thats because of the sheer damage those things kick out, but with the current camera controls and blasters range you have to get far too close. missiles offer you (ironically) the best accuracy, damage, and range combination at this point while allowing you to keep the dropship moving.

Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 299	Posted - 2013.05.09 13:30:00 - [211] - Quote I found stabilized blasters to be crazy useful last build. I got small missiles level 5, but I think I'll skill up my blasters as well. I never really see anybody use the stabilized, but they're absolutely great because you don't have to sit right on freaking top of an objective to have your gunners hit it, which enables you to get away. The fit I ran with that worked best for me last build was as follows: Turrets: Stabilized Ion Blaster Stabilized Ion Blaster High Slots: Light Clarity Ward Shield Booster Azeotropic Ward Shield Extender Azeotropic Ward Shield Extender Ward Shield Amplifier Low Slots: Local Power Diagnostic Unit Proto Hybrid Damage Modifier (can't recall name) That fit worked like a dream for me. I'm in an ADS now, so due to powergrid limitations I'll be running missiles, but the rest I've chosen to keep the same.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1494	Posted - 2013.05.09 14:45:00 - [212] - Quote Proto scattered blasters work well, though you have to be pretty close to get hits and aiming with the tiny reticule is kinda annoying. Plus your more prone to tunnel vision with them than you are with missiles in my opinion, lost some ships cause I wasn't paying attention to my surroundings.
Jonathan Panderson The Phoenix Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.10 03:00:00 - [213] - Quote Thanks, Skihids! Your guide was super helpful when I was first learning to fly and I really look forward to the rewrite! ^O^ v I'm curious about some of the new dropship mechanics and I'm not sure if other folks have been experiencing this, but sometimes the rear thrusters on my ship turn parallel to the ground and I unintentionally end up zipping off somewhere! It's pretty scary stuff when near structures and I just don't know what the heck I'm doing that's causing this. o.oa MAYDAY! MAYDAY! Pandacopter down... T-T
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1501	Posted - 2013.05.10 09:22:00 - [214] - Quote Tried out speed tanking a python on a whim today, had crap tank less than 2500 total ehp but boy that fit didn't even need tank. Due to my low vehicle manoeuvring skill I could only fit the level 1 Tourque increase mods. I put 2 of them in both my low slots, given me a just under 20% torque bonus. High slots were an afterburner, 2x shield resistance amps, and a shield extender. This fit is incredibly fast, on manus peak with afterburners active you can from MCC to MCC in 12 seconds. You. Can also outrun swarms And jonathan it's part of the new mechanics, you switch into once youv built up a certain level of inertia, to get out of it kill your forward momentum and reduce thrust, should switch you back to normal flight relatively quickly.
Skihids The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 1257	Posted - 2013.05.10 20:12:00 - [215] - Quote Jonathan Panderson wrote: Thanks, Skihids! Your guide was super helpful when I was first learning to fly and I really look forward to the rewrite! ^O^ v I'm curious about some of the new dropship mechanics and I'm not sure if other folks have been experiencing this, but sometimes the rear thrusters on my ship turn parallel to the ground and I unintentionally end up zipping off somewhere! It's pretty scary stuff when near structures and I just don't know what the heck I'm doing that's causing this. o.oa MAYDAY! MAYDAY! Pandacopter down... T-T Yeah, that caught me by surprise too. I saw the engines pointed straight back and figured I would fall out of the sky. I suspect the new mechanics are there to prevent us from having to maintain a huge nose down angle to fly fast in the horizontal plane like we did in the past. Do you recall being in afterburner and bouncing/dragging along the hard flight ceiling because you couldn't get your nose down far enough not to have a huge upward component of thrust? This would eliminate that and shows that CCP Blam has actually been working on flight mechanics.
Skihids The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 1257	Posted - 2013.05.10 20:16:00 - [216] - Quote BTW, it would be great if you could pop over to My Dropship chase camera survey and let me know what you think. I want to give CCP Blam some numbers to back up what I think we want in the camera.
Jonathan Panderson The Phoenix Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:10:00 - [217] - Quote Interesting... o.o! Thanks for the info, gbghg and Skihids! +1s! b ^O^ d Hmm... this'll still take some getting used to for me though... I'll see you guys in a bit. leaves insurance info at the nearest CRU >_>;
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 60	Posted - 2013.05.12 16:22:00 - [218] - Quote Today's mission was trying out flying dropships on a budget. Instead of going for the full 950k Eryx I fitted a Myron around 450k ISK. That's three azeotropic wards, a meta level 1 light shield booster, two advanced turrets and enough PG upgrades to make the thing fly. Honestly, it works just as well. It takes a few minutes to pick up a gunner, but I can't see much of a performance drop. Second lesson of today: Blasters work reasonably well. I picked up a gunner that was 0/5 at the time and within a few minutes he gunned down several red dots, destroyed a railgun turret and an LAV. Hats off to you, brave blueberry. (Disclaimer: There was very few AV going on at the time. I believe missiles are still much better when you can't hover at all. A mixed layout might be a good idea.)
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 38	Posted - 2013.05.16 16:10:00 - [219] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Second lesson of today: Blasters work reasonably well. I picked up a gunner that was 0/5 at the time and within a few minutes he gunned down several red dots, destroyed a railgun turret and an LAV. Hats off to you, brave blueberry. (Disclaimer: There was very few AV going on at the time. I believe missiles are still much better when you can't hover at all. A mixed layout might be a good idea.) Yeah, was just about to ask this actually. What sort of turrets are you guys setting up with your dropships? Last build, like others have attested to, I was extremely successful with the Scattered Variant of Blaster but I'm hesitant to go down that road again. Was the range on the Scattered Blaster nerfed alongside the ranges of other weapon types? How do they hold up in Uprising at this point? For clarification I'm running a Grimsnes (Gallente Dropship) using 2x Advanced Missile Turrets. Can't say I've been too satisfied with the ability of my gunners to rack up kills with Missiles vs. Blasters but I've only done some moderate testing with the Cycled and Accelerated variants. Looking to test out Fragmented today.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1679	Posted - 2013.05.16 18:40:00 - [220] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Second lesson of today: Blasters work reasonably well. I picked up a gunner that was 0/5 at the time and within a few minutes he gunned down several red dots, destroyed a railgun turret and an LAV. Hats off to you, brave blueberry. (Disclaimer: There was very few AV going on at the time. I believe missiles are still much better when you can't hover at all. A mixed layout might be a good idea.) Yeah, was just about to ask this actually. What sort of turrets are you guys setting up with your dropships? Last build, like others have attested to, I was extremely successful with the Scattered Variant of Blaster but I'm hesitant to go down that road again. Was the range on the Scattered Blaster nerfed alongside the ranges of other weapon types? How do they hold up in Uprising at this point? For clarification I'm running a Grimsnes (Gallente Dropship) using 2x Advanced Missile Turrets. Can't say I've been too satisfied with the ability of my gunners to rack up kills with Missiles vs. Blasters but I've only done some moderate testing with the Cycled and Accelerated variants. Looking to test out Fragmented today. Scattered blasters are decent, they won't kill as quick due to the turret skill nerf though, still good for tearing up infantry and stripping HP off vehicles. As for missiles I'd recommend cycled, the higher ROF is incredibly useful though the splash radius is kinda small. Fragmented are decent too, good splash radius with them, but I just prefer cycled.

Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 39	Posted - 2013.05.17 04:48:00 - [221] - Quote So I stumbled across a pretty interesting loadout for my Grimsnes. What it sacrifices in Advanced or Prototype weapons it gains in the fact that it can tank everything, its got 2 armor reps, an armor extender, a shield rep, and a shield extender all in a single vehicle. Grimsnes - 1285 Shields / 2312 Armor ST - 1 Fragmented Missile Launcher 20GJ Scattered Blaster Light Converse Shield Booster Supplimental Shield Extender 60mm Reinforced Nanofibre Plates Light IGL-Polarized Armor Regen x2 Local Powergrid Expansion Unit So yeah, pretty sick.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 78	Posted - 2013.05.18 14:03:00 - [222] - Quote Thanks for sharing your fitting. That's always very nice. But I'd like to ask why, in the current situation, you would choose an active tanking fit over a passive buffer fit when the time-to-kill on a dropship is, even for a buffer fitted eryx with some 6k ehp, between 0.2 and about 3 seconds?
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 116	Posted - 2013.06.12 20:28:00 - [223] - Quote By the way, did any of you notice that the price of dropship-hulls has been reduced by 50%? That's like the coming of the messiah.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 2106	Posted - 2013.06.12 21:12:00 - [224] - Quote Only for the standard and militia, logi and assault only lost about 200k each, and frankly while welcome, are still pinata's.
Agent Joseph ROYAL SQUAD Shadow of the Apocalypse 2	Posted - 2013.06.17 03:12:00 - [225] - Quote From an RP perspective, why are dropships so ridiculously hard to fly? Think about it. Set altitude. Rotate. Push in a direction. Let the computer take care of the rest. The Balochs seem to fly themselves just fine. Why would the dropship designers make it so hard? From a PS3 controller perspective: why is it that different from a soldier's controls, beyond the addition of altitude?
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 117	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:27:00 - [226] - Quote Agent Joseph wrote: From a PS3 controller perspective: why is it that different from a soldier's controls, beyond the addition of altitude? That's because with a soldier you control 4 degrees of freedom (2x movement and 2x looking) whereas with a dropship you control 4 degrees of freedom (roll-pitch-yaw & thrust). ... The true explanation is that thrust shouldn't share a stick with any other control and therefor you need to use the L2&R2 inputs. More importantly, why are there two different flight models on the same vehicle? This is extremely annoying.
Planetside2 FreeonPS4 Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2013.06.18 00:32:00 - [227] - Quote Planetside 2 free on PS4 this year
Travis Snyders Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2013.06.18 01:19:00 - [228] - Quote Concerned Fan
Dustin Peril Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.06.19 04:11:00 - [229] - Quote Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this......... Planetside 2 Coming to PS4 this year Insane Infantry Push Amazing Night Battle Night to Day Canyon Battle Intense Field Battle Desert Infantry Line Huge Desert Tank Battle 100 Tank Convoy 150 man Air Raid 65/0 Kill streak in the air NC Montage Factions Explained
Genome Kipnis Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.06.19 23:06:00 - [230] - Quote Nice guide Im impressed with the time and effort

Skihids the tritan industries RISE of LEGION 1646	Posted - 2013.06.20 00:47:00 - [231] - Quote Genome Kipnis wrote: Nice guide Im impressed with the time and effort Thanks! I edited the Flight Controls post to explain the new engine swivel behavior that came with Uprising.
Harry Hendersons Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.06.21 01:04:00 - [232] - Quote Amazing guide thanks alot, great read
Skihids the tritan industries RISE of LEGION 1646	Posted - 2013.06.22 04:31:00 - [233] - Quote I really don't want this thread to become a referendum on DUST. Let's just keep it about the mechanics of flying dropships and leave the politics for General Discussions please.
Cody Sietz Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION 376	Posted - 2013.07.06 14:50:00 - [234] - Quote Bump to help new pilots.
elisan field Defenders of the Helghast Dream 0	Posted - 2013.07.06 18:25:00 - [235] - Quote I'm not sure if this is a glitch or not but if your dropship happens to hit 0 hp it just drops and sinks like a rock. (Well I've done this in 3 games in a row.) It's possible to start the repair module on the dropship then hit thrust before you hit the ground you'll regain control. You can use this in most situations if you happen to be high enough. If your to close to the ground you'll probably just hit the ground and die. After this it's best to stay away from the area you got hit by the swarm launchers and forge guns or recall the ship.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1941	Posted - 2013.07.07 14:44:00 - [236] - Quote I love this thread. I remember learning to fly from it- now I can handle piloting an assault dropship with a basic afterburner.
Gabriella Grey XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 7	Posted - 2013.07.19 03:04:00 - [237] - Quote Here is a free sample of something My corporation XERCORE has worked on, to better help new and experienced pilots for Eve Dust. Please give feedback and if you are interested more about XERCORE* or the full e-book, look us up in the public channel.* Public Channel: XERCORE XERCORE Dropship Pilot PDF Free Sample
KR-91N Intara Direct Action Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.07.20 11:22:00 - [238] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Thanks for sharing your fitting. That's always very nice. But I'd like to ask why, in the current situation, you would choose an active tanking fit over a passive buffer fit when the time-to-kill on a dropship is, even for a buffer fitted eryx with some 6k ehp, between 0.2 and about 3 seconds? Depends on the situation. Generally I would have to agree. In general you should try to absorb one good rail and then be able to get out of there, which may or may not rely on an afterburner. Sometimes you can hover behind a structure if you have good battle awareness. But like you say, often it is too late. However, against infantry with swarms, reppers are king. You can sit there will a big troll grin especially if you have good gunners and frustrate the hell out of people in spawn points trying to fit AV. If you have to fly away it only takes a few seconds to be back in it. So the advantage is a level of persistence and harassment that a buffer simply cannot achieve. Specialization is the key, which is why heavily tanking dropships to me doesn't make sense. You don't fky a dropship to take on tanks and turrets, so why specialize your ship as if that was the plan. This repper fit is effective as an anti-infantry gunship, but you must have competent gunners. If you are a pro pilot you can hug structures and carefully control your exposure to damage.
Gabriella Grey XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 11	Posted - 2013.08.15 14:57:00 - [239] - Quote I came across these three youtube videos, and are great for new dropship pilots and intermediate pilots in learning how to truly fly a dropship.All of these things discussed in the link below can be used for *militia all the way to assault and logistics dropships. Enjoy new pilots. And if you have any questions please message me or join XERCORE public channel for hands on help*. Dropship Video Tutorials
TEBOW BAGGINS Rebel Raiders Inc. 887	Posted - 2013.08.17 02:02:00 - [240] - Quote Agent Joseph wrote: From an RP perspective, why are dropships so ridiculously hard to fly? Think about it. Set altitude. Rotate. Push in a direction. Let the computer take care of the rest. The Balochs seem to fly themselves just fine. Why would the dropship designers make it so hard? From a PS3 controller perspective: why is it that different from a soldier's controls, beyond the addition of altitude? the controls 1 year ago were very simple and straight forward. they were redone and made much more difficult, but not impossible. this change was met with mostly approval as the pilots were up to a new challenge, when before they were easy mode, basically they were hovering LAVs back then they took no input at all to hover. dropship control takes constant inputs both large and small, you should be inputing multiple control/counter control every half second or more, which a lot of times are just small stick clicks. you will loose many dropships if you fly at a generic medium height, what i like to call a redzone, you must also learn to keep your stalls to a minimum. the best fits imo are a hybrid combo of shields armor and speed. as soon as your gunner scores you need to get going again until next target is aquired.

Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 1628	Posted - 2013.08.29 18:09:00 - [241] - Quote Need to keep this alive. It is important
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3330	Posted - 2013.08.29 18:12:00 - [242] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Need to keep this alive. It is important While true, the thread is stored here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=50011&find=unread
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 33	Posted - 2013.09.03 16:31:00 - [243] - Quote Skihids wrote: Unlike a fixed wing or rotary wing aircraft, a dropship has no wing and that will likely be the most difficult concept to internalize as a new pilot. This has a few implications you need to be aware of: 1) All other aircraft can trade forward motion for altitude, but you cannot. An airplane obtains lift via airflow over the wing. The faster it moves, the more lift it generates. ... 3) You cannot perform banked turns. I'm not sure this is strictly true any more. Disclaimer: I'm a rookie. just recently started learning piloting. That being said: the dropships seem more like VTOL aircraft now. Initially, the thrusters are locked downwards, so it behaves like a helicopter. However.. when you get the forward momentum going, and the thrusters lock in the aft direction... the handling seems to change. I havent had enough time to play with it yet. However, i'll observe that it no longer seems like it is just "L1 = up, L2 = down". which would make sense, seeing as how the thrusters are no longer pointed down! My hunch is that, just like real life jets have a particular stall speed under which the wings give insufficient lift (and its quite a high speed, comparatively!), the dropships have been coded so that, when they are travelling at sufficient speed, they perform in a slightly aerodynamic way. Emphasis on the slightly Do note, also, that the alleged rated top speed of the things, is 2500km/h. That's an order of magnitude faster than ground vehicles.
Skihids Bullet Cluster 2006	Posted - 2013.09.03 23:45:00 - [244] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Skihids wrote: Unlike a fixed wing or rotary wing aircraft, a dropship has no wing and that will likely be the most difficult concept to internalize as a new pilot. This has a few implications you need to be aware of: 1) All other aircraft can trade forward motion for altitude, but you cannot. An airplane obtains lift via airflow over the wing. The faster it moves, the more lift it generates. ... 3) You cannot perform banked turns. I'm not sure this is strictly true any more. Disclaimer: I'm a rookie. just recently started learning piloting. That being said: the dropships seem more like VTOL aircraft now. Initially, the thrusters are locked downwards, so it behaves like a helicopter. However.. when you get the forward momentum going, and the thrusters lock in the aft direction... the handling seems to change. I havent had enough time to play with it yet. However, i'll observe that it no longer seems like it is just "L1 = up, L2 = down". which would make sense, seeing as how the thrusters are no longer pointed down! My hunch is that, just like real life jets have a particular stall speed under which the wings give insufficient lift (and it's quite a high speed, comparatively!) -- the dropships have been coded so that, when they are travelling at sufficient speed, they perform in a slightly aerodynamic way. Emphasis on the slightly Do note, also, that the alleged rated top speed of the things, is 2500km/h. That's an order of magnitude faster than ground vehicles. It's easy to feel that the engine swivel turns the dropship into a winged aircraft, but no, you don't spout wings. Try flying at full throttle then yaw the ship around 180. You will see that you can still manage to pirouette and are now flying backwards. The swiveled engines mess with a perfect spin, but it still happens. In real life the ship should act as a lifting body to give the effect you describe, but I doubt they coded that in.
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 34	Posted - 2013.09.04 18:14:00 - [245] - Quote Skihids wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: My hunch is that, just like real life jets have a particular stall speed under which the wings give insufficient lift (and it's quite a high speed, comparatively!) -- the dropships have been coded so that, when they are travelling at sufficient speed, they perform in a slightly aerodynamic way. Emphasis on the slightly ... It's easy to feel that the engine swivel turns the dropship into a winged aircraft, but no, you don't spout wings. Try flying at full throttle then yaw the ship around 180. You will see that you can still manage to pirouette and are now flying backwards. The swiveled engines mess with a perfect spin, but it still happens. In real life the ship should act as a lifting body to give the effect you describe, but I doubt they coded that in. Please note that I didnt say "lifting body". I said "aerodynamic". These are not neccessarily interchangable. A rocket.. or a bullet for that matter... does not have aerodynamic lift. But it does have aerodynamic properties. or even if it doesnt, I'm wondering if the handling is different. Trouble is, many(most?) maps are too small to get the chance to test out full-speed handling. BRING ON FULL-SIZED MAPS!! Unfortunately, i didnt get to test out my theories yesterday. Krazy day. Maybe tonight.
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 42	Posted - 2013.09.05 18:37:00 - [246] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Unfortunately, i didnt get to test out my theories yesterday. Krazy day. Maybe tonight. I got to test it some yesterday Seems i was mostly right. When you seriously get up to speed (ie: around where you see the wind-turbulence animation around you, and you've got the thrusters locked rearwards) the dropship handles different, as follows: * Holding down L1, does not take you up (if you are level). And in fact, it may be required to keep holding L1 down, to keep the vehicle in this mode. Atmospheric drag at 2000km/h is.. well... a drag * Using yaw, is unneccessary, and actually undesirable * Handling is like a standard jet, if you have your controls set to "standard". That is to say: - pulling left stick slightly towards you, changes your flightpath to be UP. It doesnt slow you down - similar for pushing away from you. - left turning, is most simply done, by a slight left left-stick, along with pulling it slightly towards you. Right turn is done similarly. Note that the above behaviour requires that you do mild control inputs. I have not tested the boundaries of it, but doing extreme inputs, or doing almost any yaw at all, has the tendency of disrupting this mode, or at the least, the smooth travel of it. Lose smoothness, you lose speed. Lose enough speed, and you change mode. (durnit, wanted to find an animation of a veritech transforming from jet fighter to guardian mode. google fail :( ) It's understandable that most pilots don't even go this fast, so havent played with it much, seeing as how it will take you across smaller maps in, what, 1 second, and then you're into redline? Reminder: if the in-game spec is to believed; LAVs travel at 110km/h top speed Dropship top speed is 2500km/h That's ~40km/min, or ... 690m/sec??? wait, that cant be right. ... maybe order of magnitude off? it could definitely be 69m/sec though or faster. It's crazy-fast even in a gorgon with no torque or afterburner modules. Actually USING this mode effectively, would require very different tactics than what we usually see now. Right now, the dropships are being used for not much more than gently floating blimps. It's rather too bad. For an assault dropship,using this sort of tactic with the pilot turret would potentially turn it into a tactical (jet)fighter. Think strafing runs. Plus side: moving too fast for any kind of AV lockon to happen. You'd have to be in the right place with a railgun, and target manually. Negative: really, really difficult to do without crashing into the ground. So, potentially best use as A-A or anti-tower camping? For a more regular, troup-based style, this can rule in an open map, with a small number of players per team. Take some troups and zip in to take an objective, para-dropping in, while you take the extra time to land. Then before the virus even has time to finish taking over that objective, you can have them at a second one. The other team wont be able to keep up. Nor will they be able to competantly protect any one objective with 2 vs 5 troups.
Skihids Bullet Cluster 2026	Posted - 2013.09.05 19:49:00 - [247] - Quote L1 is the throttle, so holding it down increases the thrust in whatever direction the engines are pointed. The engines are locked mostly back, but partly down. This propels the ship forward at high velocity and keeps it suspended in the air. Holding L1 will naturally push it forward rather than straight up. If you were around during closed beta when the afterburner was several times as powerful and the engine swivel didn't exist. It was very difficult to fly forward under AB without slamming into the artificial hard flight ceiling of Chromosome. The pilot had to push the nose down about 80 degrees to fly straight, and in that attitude you couldn't see where you were flying. You can think about swivel not so much as swinging the engines back as leaving the engines where they were and tilting the nose bcck up. In swivel mode you can think of the dropship like the ship in the old Asteroids game.
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 44	Posted - 2013.09.05 20:35:00 - [248] - Quote Do you have insight as to what specifically triggers the rear swivel, and even better, what trigggers the UNswivel? Would you say it is purely based on groundspeed? Or are the other factors? For example, to get INTO it, I think the following conditions are required: 1. be going faster than some trivial amount of speed, and have the nose within (X?) degrees of current velocity 2. while DS is tilted forward, pilot has to be holding down L1, then pull back on left stick to flatten out the pitch. Under these conditions, the thrusters will swivel to be mostly rear-facing, and lock into that position, which has the seeming effect of holding the thrusters in place while bringing the nose up. I'm curious as to what will bring it out of that state, though. Will a sudden nose-up condition trigger it? Is it perhaps more generally if nose gets more than (?) degrees away from direction of travel, it happens? Will letting go the L1 for more than X seconds trigger it? Or is it rather that, when any/all of (lack of L1 thrust/application of L2 negative thrust/90 degree nose turn) results in (groundspeed? airspeed?) dropping below X, that it happens? It would probably take me a long time to test all the possibilities, and I have only minimal game time free tonight, so if you already know the answer, it would be much appreciated if you would share :)
Skihids Bullet Cluster 2026	Posted - 2013.09.06 04:26:00 - [249] - Quote I'm not sure about the precise trigger(s), but the effect of those triggers is the intent to fly fast and to stop. It's probably just forward velocity, but that requires an initial nose down attitude along with an advanced throttle so you won't be able to pick them apart. Likewise the only way I know to kill forward velocity without crashing is a radical pitch up. The pitch or the lost velocity could be the trigger, but it doesn't really matter as it all happens at the same time. Well, one would result in additional altitude so you could test by a low level zoom followed by a pitch up. If you brake immediately without gaining altitude it's the pitch up. If you climb until you slow down it's velocity.
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 51	Posted - 2013.09.06 05:56:00 - [250] - Quote Skihids wrote: I'm not sure about the precise trigger(s), but the effect of those triggers is the intent to fly fast and to stop. It's probably just forward velocity, but that requires an initial nose down attitude along with an advanced throttle so you won't be able to pick them apart. [/quote] Turns out that the "advanced throttle".. or at least the concept of "holding the throttle button down", is not required. it would seem to be airspeed across the nose that is the primary trigger. Getting the beastie reasonably high up (100m?) and letting go L1, where it just hovers... an then tipping the nose down without touching throttle, will rear-tilt the thrusters after airspeed picks up.

Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 51	Posted - 2013.09.06 06:38:00 - [251] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: For an assault dropship,using this sort of tactic (high speed runs) with the pilot turret would potentially turn it into a tactical (jet)fighter. Think strafing runs. Plus side: moving too fast for any kind of AV lockon to happen. You'd have to be in the right place with a railgun, and target manually. Negatives: I'd think you could only use railguns, or accelerated missile turrets. Really, really difficult to angle down, when near the ground, without crashing into the ground. You can only make gentle turns in this mode. So, potentially best use as A-A or anti-tower camping? Or possibly anti-turret runs, since you should be able to aim and shoot from them at a distance+height, then pull up safely. I got to try this tonight, after creating a new alt, and throwing 3mil ISK at it. This....is very difficult! Doesnt help that the pilot ground-scanner is Le Suck. You have to be able to visually target from a distance. BUG!! I was basically able to only get off one shot on-target against a ground turret at speed. (and avoid crashing ;) A good pilot would probably be able to get off two. but given that these are "light" weapon turrets onboard the dropship, the effectiveness is questionable. That's too bad. Guess the only way to use assault dropships against "hard" targets, is to get in close, then use the fancy flying, "circle with your rear in the air" moves, to avoid getting shot down. Yikes! Putting a blaster in front should do pretty well against infantry I guess though.
Johnny dropship Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:19:00 - [252] - Quote Cool, this combined with Judge's videos are great for learning how to fly. Could I maybe ask for an update on the fitting info though? This was made over a year ago so it doesn't have assault dropships. Or would the same still apply?
Skihids Bullet Cluster 2045	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:38:00 - [253] - Quote Johnny dropship wrote: Cool, this combined with Judge's videos are great for learning how to fly. Could I maybe ask for an update on the fitting info though? This was made over a year ago so it doesn't have assault dropships. Or would the same still apply? Everything about fitting is going to change in 1.5 so I suggest you search or other pilots fittings for now and we will ll figure out the new fitting together. I'm currently working on an illustrated Dropship Flight School guide (PDF) where I can use pictures to make concepts clearer. That will also give me room to add sections on fitting and tactics. At present I'm relearning how to edit images on multiple layers in my old software and that's slowing me down. Hopefully I'll have V1.0 out in another week.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 930	Posted - 2013.09.10 10:54:00 - [254] - Quote Why isn't this stickied?
Skihids Bullet Cluster 2054	Posted - 2013.09.10 14:18:00 - [255] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Why isn't this stickied? It is mentioned in this stickied post which links many useful threads. That's probably better than crowding the whole front page with stickied threads.


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.