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Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
968
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Posted - 2012.09.02 14:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jak Teston wrote:One maneuver I practiced early was jumping from cover to cover. When there are swarm launchers in the vicinity and you can't take much more damage it's a good thing to know how to get from behind one building to the next one in the minimum amount of time possible at a heading of your liking. Being able to fly in any direction regardless of heading is important so you can lead incoming missiles into obstacles.
Also, practicing "full stop to full speed back to full stop" is a good lesson to learn when you want to pick up gunners without being in a pre-made squad. People will judge you on your ability to land smoothly and momentum management is key in a smooth landing. A wonky and thus lengthy landing also makes you a prime target for all kinds of threats, so practice this a lot.
This is why you are best off mastering the early lessons before you run off and start your combat career. It's certainly tempting to go kill things, but you will delay your training, lose more birds, and tarnish your reputation with gunners.
In the beginning all student pilots are said to be "behind the airplane". This describes the state of reacting to what the craft is doing at the moment. All thought is "Oh, now it's drifting to the left. I have to move the left stick to the right. Now my nose is wandering to the right, I need to push the right stick."
This is normal. However there will come a magical moment when you suddenly realize that you are no longer conscious of your control inputs. The ship will just go where you want it to go. This is the moment you are mentaly ahead of your craft even if you are in 3rd person view. Regular practice of the ground reference maneuvers will provide the feedback to wire this in your brain. Don't short change yourself. |
Sees-Too-Much
332
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Posted - 2012.09.02 14:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:wathak 514 wrote:Shiro Mokuzan wrote:I never seem to be able to lift off at all. Am I missing something? Do I need piloting or something to fly a militia dropship?
I can rotate it, and the thrusters move, but I can't lift off no matter how long I hold L1. I've even tried bumping it with an LAV. R1 is thrust hold it down to create thrust after that just fallow the directions in te first 3 or 4 posts of this thread No it's not, unless you are using the southpaw configuration, which I'm not. Known bug. That happens to me intermittently too. Power cycle your PS3, that usually fixes it for me. |
Sees-Too-Much
332
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Posted - 2012.09.02 14:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Regular practice of the ground reference maneuvers will provide the feedback to wire this in your brain. Oh, this actually brings up something I've been struggling with a bit. If I get enough altitude to where I can't see buildings anymore, I have a really hard time maintaining awareness of where I am on the map. I have to use the down-looking camera after that, which is a pain in the butt and often doesn't help.
Any thoughts on something that might help with that?
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Grenwal Hiesenberg
Shadow Company HQ
223
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Posted - 2012.09.02 14:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
I wonder if they are going to add things like a horizon line indicator or a meter that tells you what angle your nose is facing (up or down, 0 for level, etc.). Basic flight instruments and such, maybe even incoming projectile sensors/warnings. Got rocked by two swarms in a viper last night, they didn't take me down but neither of my gunners said a thing (no mics?). Maybe some sort of colored indicator on the minimap to show which direction they are coming from, how fast, how many and so forth. |
Grenwal Hiesenberg
Shadow Company HQ
223
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Posted - 2012.09.02 15:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sees-Too-Much wrote:Skihids wrote:Regular practice of the ground reference maneuvers will provide the feedback to wire this in your brain. Oh, this actually brings up something I've been struggling with a bit. If I get enough altitude to where I can't see buildings anymore, I have a really hard time maintaining awareness of where I am on the map. I have to use the down-looking camera after that, which is a pain in the butt and often doesn't help. Any thoughts on something that might help with that? I wish we were able to pull waaaayyy back in third person view, we would be able to see buildings, mountains, projectiles; enough to be spacially aware. |
Jak Teston
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
99
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Posted - 2012.09.02 16:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'd really like the HUD, perhaps when in first person view, to show altitude, rate of ascend, true ground speed and inclination. That'd make things easier.
And the minimap should definitely show missiles. |
Grenwal Hiesenberg
Shadow Company HQ
223
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Posted - 2012.09.02 17:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jak Teston wrote:I'd really like the HUD, perhaps when in first person view, to show altitude, rate of ascend, true ground speed and inclination. That'd make things easier.
And the minimap should definitely show missiles. Ground speed never even crossed my mind for some reason but definitely needed, especially when you're drifting slightly in one direction or another in first person. + and - for fore and aft motion respectively. What about being able to lock the third person camera in an overhead view for setting up your flying spawn over an objective? It would allow you to stabilize yourself over top of certain terrain characteristics, where teammates can drop behind a ridge, in a ravine, etc. for a bit of added cover upon dropping. |
Jak Teston
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
99
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Posted - 2012.09.02 17:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Grenwal Hiesenberg wrote:What about being able to lock the third person camera in an overhead view for setting up your flying spawn over an objective? It would allow you to stabilize yourself over top of certain terrain characteristics, where teammates can drop behind a ridge, in a ravine, etc. for a bit of added cover upon dropping. Shouldn't the minimap cover that functionality? It would of course need to show some actual terrain for reference, but that has been one of my main issues with it even before I started piloting dropships.
If we don't get any visible terrain on the minimap I support your suggestion. Space age technology should definitely provide a solution to something that has bugged helicopter pilots since the first time someone tried to land a helicopter. |
Kovak Therim
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
158
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Posted - 2012.09.02 17:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Now if only it didn't cost a fortune in both ISK/AUR and precious skill points to use a vehicle we may very well end up hating with a passion, even with practice. There needs to be a dedicated vehicle server where kills/deaths don't count, the "battle" never ends, and the vehicles are free. When you feel like you've got the hang of it, you just leave the server and get back to the real matches. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 17:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sees-Too-Much wrote:Skihids wrote:Regular practice of the ground reference maneuvers will provide the feedback to wire this in your brain. Oh, this actually brings up something I've been struggling with a bit. If I get enough altitude to where I can't see buildings anymore, I have a really hard time maintaining awareness of where I am on the map. I have to use the down-looking camera after that, which is a pain in the butt and often doesn't help. Any thoughts on something that might help with that?
This is an issue that I struggle with too. I can usually shift the camera view and get my bearings, but that's only an intermittent fix. There are two problems with maintaining a downward view.
1) The lack of an instrument cluster makes maintaining a given flight attitude nearly impossible.
2) Just like the LAV controls, you loose all ability to control yaw with the camera stick all the way back. You can either view your heading or change it, but not both at the same time.
I am not sure of the best fix for this, though I have some ideas:
1) Toggle the view. This would fix the second problem and the addition of an instrument cluster would fix the first. It could cycle between 1st person, the current view, full overhead, and full rear.
2) Remove the camera centering. This however could introduce more problems than it solves as an inadvertent bump (all too easily done when using the stick for yaw control), and you loose spatial awareness. Some center toggle would probably be required in addition to instruments.
3) Configure the mini map so it maintains the building display when at altitude and adds the red zone boundary. This could be done in addition to either of the first two options.
4) Remove yaw from the right stick and put it on the floor in the form of rudder pedals where it belongs, then the right stick can be pure camera movement. As much as I would love this arrangement, it would mean adding a second piece of hardware which doesn't exist. I would gladly cannibalize a spare DS3 to wire into a set of rudder pedals, but I can't see CCP requiring it. Perhaps they could make that an optional control arrangement for those of us willing to do a little hardware hacking? |
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Grenwal Hiesenberg
Shadow Company HQ
223
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Posted - 2012.09.02 17:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jak, yes terrain on the minimap would kill many birds with one stone, nice idea. The only slight problem I could see would be people playing on smaller screens might lose detail to point where it could be unreadable and hard to determine what is what. How about making it kind of like a very basic topographical make with colored lines denoting rises and falls in terrain. I really do think we need a fixed hud just for flying, I would be willing to bet that it is already being considered or worked on. |
Grenwal Hiesenberg
Shadow Company HQ
223
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Posted - 2012.09.02 17:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
Skihids, plus 1 in the last post on 1-3, the red line *needs* to be there. I lost a ship last night that just blew up and I'm thinking this was why, in infantry view there is a timer but i didn't notice it on my screen (2 in the morning...), an alarm would be nice along with your suggestion. |
wathak 514
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
106
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 17:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
I dont know what u guys are talcking about
1. Normal instrumentation of modern aircraft wont help much since inorder tofly forward ur nose needs to be down and to fly backwards ur nose points up.
2. Swarm missiles dont need to trigger an alarm or they would be broke against dropships aswell if ur hit by 1 set u need to kick n the speed cause theres more on the way.
And a minimap that shows terrain features i feel dont need but wont hurt as for a redline indicator we need that |
Grenwal Hiesenberg
Shadow Company HQ
223
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Posted - 2012.09.02 18:00:00 -
[44] - Quote
Wathak, i guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Edit : though I do believe number one is what i was referring to in an earlier post about a pitch indicator. |
Sin3 DeusNomine
Doomheim
142
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 18:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
If anyone wants to take a ride with me just send me a message in game. :) I run a pretty solid viper and can pull off moves really well. If you see a drop ship flying a foot of the ground flying under pipes at 100 miles a hour and ripping around the map like a mad man. It is probably me. :) I like to push it to the limit. You can kind of see how I fly so you may learn a little of what a drop ship can do.
Speed if your friend when swarms come in. :) |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1087
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Posted - 2012.09.02 18:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Not sure if mentioned but if you end up on the ground upside down (swarms can do this) jump out then order an lav asap. Use LAV to ram it upright again. Saved about 7 dropships this way.
Warning it all feels very back hawk down as all the angrys come looking for revenge while your grounded. |
Jak Teston
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 18:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sha Kharn Clone wrote:Not sure if mentioned but if you end up on the ground upside down (swarms can do this) jump out then order an lav asap. Use LAV to ram it upright again. Saved about 7 dropships this way. That's an ... interesting ... method, so kudos to you for pulling that off, but I somehow think it's not what should be printed in Dust's manual once released.
Perhaps one day it will be possible to have an RDV take back a vehicle once you're done with it. There are situations where I would leave my dropship due to tactical reasons, but I can't because I'd lose it in the process.
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Grenwal Hiesenberg
Shadow Company HQ
223
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 18:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sha Kharn Clone wrote:Not sure if mentioned but if you end up on the ground upside down (swarms can do this) jump out then order an lav asap. Use LAV to ram it upright again. Saved about 7 dropships this way.
Warning it all feels very back hawk down as all the angrys come looking for revenge while your grounded. Great tip, i appreciate the info and will have to try that out if i ever get a ship on the ground in one piece, lol.
Sin3, I'd love to take you up on that offer, keep an eye out for me at the BOTTOM of the leaderboard... |
Grenwal Hiesenberg
Shadow Company HQ
223
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 18:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
Jak Teston wrote:Sha Kharn Clone wrote:Not sure if mentioned but if you end up on the ground upside down (swarms can do this) jump out then order an lav asap. Use LAV to ram it upright again. Saved about 7 dropships this way. That's an ... interesting ... method, so kudos to you for pulling that off, but I somehow think it's not what should be printed in Dust's manual once released. Perhaps one day it will be possible to have an RDV take back a vehicle once you're done with it. There are situations where I would leave my dropship due to tactical reasons, but I can't because I'd lose it in the process. I was just thinking about this earlier, people would probably glitch t to refill armor and shields though. I wish there was a squad lock on your vehicles to prevent teammates from jacking your ride, this was mentioned earlier and has happened to me twice now. |
hupi testi
22
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Posted - 2012.09.02 18:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
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Yasu Hondo
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.09.02 18:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
Great Guide SK. It took me awhile to pick up the new controls when this build came in and I have avoided flying most games because of the need to practice. Hopefully the full game version will included tutorials for all vehicles but in the meantime, your guide has beefed up my flight knowledge and I hope to go practice some more. Once I save up the ISK!
Ironically, I've lost most of my dropships in the precursor build not to enemy fire or my own blunderings but to a bug that prevents them from lift off once dropped on the ground. Frustrations grew and I had to abandon them to be hacked or dissolve. Of course the hackers all faced the same problem and became sitting ducks. An expensive decoy though. |
Sees-Too-Much
332
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Posted - 2012.09.02 18:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
This post is intended as an instruction manual for dropship gunners. I've never gunned myself, so as far as things like "aiming" I can't offer much.
1) Your primary role is not to get kills. You are your pilots eyes in directions he or she cannot see. Every few seconds scan the area for incoming swarms, railguns that have taken an interest in your DS, or other threats. When you see something give your pilot an identification, and clock direction. E.g. "Railgun shots incoming from 7 o'clock"
2) The pilot is in charge. If the pilot says "target the guy by the pillar at 11 o'clock" then that is your primary. I don't care if you've got a bead on three snipers right next to each other who would be a perfect triple kill. If the pilot says bail, bail. If the pilot has not given the bail order, do not bail.
Also, I've created a channel in game: "0k0d" (a DS pilot's ideal KDR). This is intended as a "pilots seeking gunners" channel. Basically a special purpose "LFSquad". |
Grenwal Hiesenberg
Shadow Company HQ
223
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 19:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
Sees-Too-Much wrote: Also, I've created a channel in game: "0k0d" (a DS pilot's ideal KDR). This is intended as a "pilots seeking gunners" channel. Basically a special purpose "LFSquad".
Good idea, If I'm not too inebriated after my homebrew meeting I'll join in for a little while |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 19:20:00 -
[54] - Quote
If you like rap i suggest downloading instrumental versions of your favorite songs. It helps me get in the grove of swerving on swarms |
Lucivar Athonille
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.09.02 20:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
Sees-Too-Much wrote:This post is intended as an instruction manual for dropship gunners. I've never gunned myself, so as far as things like "aiming" I can't offer much.
1) Your primary role is not to get kills. You are your pilots eyes in directions he or she cannot see. Every few seconds scan the area for incoming swarms, railguns that have taken an interest in your DS, or other threats. When you see something give your pilot an identification, and clock direction. E.g. "Railgun shots incoming from 7 o'clock"
2) The pilot is in charge. If the pilot says "target the guy by the pillar at 11 o'clock" then that is your primary. I don't care if you've got a bead on three snipers right next to each other who would be a perfect triple kill. If the pilot says bail, bail. If the pilot has not given the bail order, do not bail.
Also, I've created a channel in game: "0k0d" (a DS pilot's ideal KDR). This is intended as a "pilots seeking gunners" channel. Basically a special purpose "LFSquad".
As Sees-to-much's primary gunner, we've seen our fair share of flight time together.
The gunner's job is one part recon, and one part killing machine. You'll want to constantly keep an eye on the tide of the battle and call out targets and flight patterns for the pilot. You'll want to identify high value targets, and confrontations that could help the tide of battle.
My target priorities: 1) Dropships: They are potentially very dangerous to you. 3) HAVs/LAVs: You can be the bane of their existence just as they strike fear into your allies on the ground. I thoroughly enjoy watching them try to scramble away from my shots. You will run into some HAVs that are so well tanked however that it isn't worth your time. 4) Objectives: Usually a target rich environment. Nothing is more satisfying then bringing down the full force of your air support in direct support of your ground troops. Focus first on objectives currently being fought over 5) Other: These are your snipers, and your enemy in an open field. I usually blow these guys up on the way to more important targets.
Our Lingo: He spoke about it a little before, but I want to emphasis that a gunner has better eyes on the battlefield and should be directing the pilot. I'll usually call out the direction I want him to fly, where I want to be facing and in what direction he should be flying. For example, "I need to be over objective A, circle around it counter clockwise around your nine." Too easy eh?
Since Sees-to-much can't speak much on aiming, I wanted to just say this one thing. Mouse and Keyboard. There is no other way. |
Raynor Ragna
266
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 21:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
I think the only way a target aircraft will know if missiles are on the way is if they are radar guided. Heat seeking and laser guided won't give off any signal. Of course an aircraft could search for fast moving threats (I'm no expert on this stuff but that is my understanding of how they work). It would be nice to have different ammo types that could simulate this. Along with a module for counter measures.
Standard missiles could be radar guided which gives pilots a warning alarm when they are on their way. They could however have beter object detection and could avoid more obsticles to hit their mark.
Heat seaking misiles wouldn't give off a signal but could be easier to out manuver since if they pass their target, they can not longer see their target.
I'm not quite sure about laser guided missiles. |
hupi testi
22
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 21:25:00 -
[57] - Quote
Raynor Ragna wrote:I think the only way a target aircraft will know if missiles are on the way is if they are radar guided. Heat seeking and laser guided won't give off any signal. Of course an aircraft could search for fast moving threats (I'm no expert on this stuff but that is my understanding of how they work). It would be nice to have different ammo types that could simulate this. Along with a module for counter measures.
Standard missiles could be radar guided which gives pilots a warning alarm when they are on their way. They could however have beter object detection and could avoid more obsticles to hit their mark.
Heat seaking misiles wouldn't give off a signal but could be easier to out manuver since if they pass their target, they can not longer see their target.
I'm not quite sure about laser guided missiles.
For laser guided missiles one mechanic could be that someone on-ground would 'paint' the target with somekind of equipment. |
mcbob mcbob
10
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 22:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
Nice guide, but I'm not sure how much it helped because I've never flown in DUST before today, and i got the hang of it very quickly. |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
91
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 23:20:00 -
[59] - Quote
Kovak Therim wrote:There needs to be a dedicated vehicle server where kills/deaths don't count, the "battle" never ends, and the vehicles are free. When you feel like you've got the hang of it, you just leave the server and get back to the real matches.
Yeah, whenever I wanted to get the hang of a new ship in EVE I'd just hop on Sisi and blow stuff up a bit. If only there were a server like Singularity for DUST...
Hey. Waitaminute.
(In all seriousness, once the game launches for prime time, I wouldn't put it past CCP to set up a testing instance of DUST on Sisi.) |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 23:42:00 -
[60] - Quote
Raynor Ragna wrote:I think the only way a target aircraft will know if missiles are on the way is if they are radar guided. Heat seeking and laser guided won't give off any signal. Of course an aircraft could search for fast moving threats (I'm no expert on this stuff but that is my understanding of how they work). It would be nice to have different ammo types that could simulate this. Along with a module for counter measures.
Standard missiles could be radar guided which gives pilots a warning alarm when they are on their way. They could however have beter object detection and could avoid more obsticles to hit their mark.
Heat seaking misiles wouldn't give off a signal but could be easier to out manuver since if they pass their target, they can not longer see their target.
I'm not quite sure about laser guided missiles.
A lockon warning would only be possible if the weapon had an active guidance system such as radar or laser. Passive systems would give no lockon warning and that would be a great weapon diierentiator. Once the missile launched an onboard system could easily detect them if only by visual or heat signature.
As was pointed out though, good gunners will most probably be just as effective. I just haven't had the privilege of flying with a pair yet. |
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