|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
   |
Posted - 2012.09.01 21:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Before the Precursor build dropships were basically free aerial bumper cars used by snipers for quick jaunts to tower tops or by joyriders to squash infantry. They were as simple simple to operate as an amusement park ride and free which generated quite a bit of abuse by anyone with an inclination.
That all changed in the current build. Dropships fight physics now closely match reality and mastering them requires a degree of player skill. Some lament the change and others applaud it. Both camps are completely right if you share their premise. Those folks who prefer the old model view DUST through the lens of a dedicated FPS player where the gun game is paramount and all else serves that end. For them a dropship is now an overly demanding tool for the shooter and is just not workable. The other camp views piloting as a separate and equal role to the ground pounding gunner.
All primary roles need a mixture of player and character skill if they want to attract a dedicated following. Hardcore FPS players would scoff at a game that used heavy auto aim to remove any need for player skill in the gun game. Pilots are no less concerned with player skill. Talk to any real pilot for five minutes and this will come across very strongly, they are proud of having mastered flight. Precursor has defined piloting as a distinct specialty, one that I would like to welcome you into.
There is however a valid objection to this change. These things ARE difficult to learn to fly on your own, and they cost a few hundred thousand ISK each. Together this makes flight training both frustrating and very expensive. Forcing us to train on a hot battlefield where half your concentration is spent watching out for shoulder launched missiles is just too much for some.
My purpose for this thread is to help you learn to fly as easily and cheaply as possible. Hopefully you will graduate from the basic lessons with your original bird intact. I ask for your feedback on how well I have managed to accomplish this, and any tips you have on how to improve the guide.
So if you are ready to fly, go purchase your first Viper, toss on some militia shield extenders, fit a militia armor rep on it and head out for practice.
I strongly suggest you limit your initial flights to the spawn area in Skirmish. I have found this to always be an enemy free zone where I don't have to worry about getting shot down. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 21:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dropship Physics:
You need to understand the physics of dropship flight before you advance the throttle for the first time. Your mental model of how the ship is going to react to control inputs has to match reality or you will crash and be very frustrated with the whole ordeal.
A dropship is a pure vector thrust craft, and while it superficially resembles a helicopter, it's not exactly the same. It is also very much different than a fixed wing aircraft and any flight time you have in one will be an initial liability until you unlearn those reflexes. A dropship flys just like its distant cousin the lunar lander.
Think of your dropship as a brick balanced on thrust. If you give it a shove it will drift along like an air-hockey puck until you push it another direction or it hits something. How do you give it a shove? If you tilt the ship part of the thrust holding it up will be directed away from the way the ship tilts and induce lateral movement. Of course that part is no longer supporting the ship against the vertical pull of gravity and the dropship is going to sink in proportion. Tilt just a little and you won't notice, but flip it ninety degrees and you will know just how a brick doesn't fly. You can maintain level flight by increasing thrust, at least up to the point you don't have enough power left in reserve. The more you tilt the more you need, and the higher you fly the less you have to spare. Response is best near ground level and very mushy at the ship's service ceiling where every bit of power is being used to maintain altitude.
Unlike a fixed wing or rotary wing aircraft, a dropship has no wing and that will likely be the most difficult concept to internalize as a new pilot. This has a few implications you need to be aware of:
1) All other aircraft can trade forward motion for altitude, but you cannot. An airplane obtains lift via airflow over the wing. The faster it moves, the more lift it generates. If it is diving at he ground it can pull up and use that energy to climb. You obtain lift directly from your engines, and speed will not affect it. Want to climb? Increase your throttle, don't pull up. What happens if you panic and yank back? Well, part of the thrust that was holding you up was just redirected forward. Now you are sinking faster and moving slower (assuming you were flying forward). That isn't going to get you over the top of that building, though it may keep you from slamming into it.
2) All other aircraft can fly inverted, not you. They do it by generating lift with the other side of the wing, albeit less efficiently in most cases. You can flip your ship upside down, but now all that thrust is now aiding gravity so don't stay that way for long. This means you may perform a barrel roll, but it will resemble a squashed script "e" rather than a nice round "o". Aerobatic pilots actually use inverted flight over the top of an inverted maneuver such as an inside loop to stretch out that part of the maneuver, and as we just discussed you cannot. Don't expect to win a competition.
3) You cannot perform banked turns. This is really just an extension of the first point because a turn in a winged aircraft is just a climb with the lift directed inside the turn by rolling the craft before pitching up. This means that you will have to thrust just as hard and long to stop moving in a given direction as you did to get moving. No trading fast flight for a tight high G turn. You are skidding in the sky, not flying in the traditional sense.
Wait you say, I did perform a banked turn! Ok, you can duplicate the flight path by rolling, yawing, and thrusting, but you are pushing with pure thrust and not making use of airflow to produce lift for the turn. If you are turning 180 you have also wasted time boosting to one side and then back again. Instead take advantage of your difference and just pirroet in place so you are flying backwards, then drop your nose and cancel your movement before heading back. This could keep you from straying into the red zone. Of course it also leaves you hanging motionless in space which could be good or bad depending on the tactical situation.
4) You can hover and change altitude with your throttle alone. This part is just like a helicopter.
|
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 21:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Flight Controls:
The next thing to understand is how the controls work. The left stick controls pitch, push forward and the nose drops, pull back and the nose rises. Raising the nose directs some of the thrust in the forward direction, dropping it will direct some thrust back and accelerate you forwad. The left stick also controls roll, push to the left and you will tilt left and move left. Push right and you do the opposite.
The right stick controls yaw. Push the stick right and the ship spins clockwise, left and the ship spins counter clockwise. This is the one control that won't significantly alter the amount of thrust keeping your ship up. Turning does tilt the craft though so you will need to compensate for the induced roll.
Perhaps the most confusing control is the camera movement on the right stick because while it alters your sight picture of the ship it doesn't actually change the pitch. You can't fly the ship by changing the camera view, but you can easily confuse yourself into thinking that you did. At the start I suggest you avoid messing with the camera position. This may require conscious thought as it is easy to find yourself pushing in the vertical as you are adjusting yaw with horizontal movement of the stick. Later on you will be able to process an altered viewpoint without losing control.
|
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 21:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Your first few flights:
The best way to learn is to boost up about ten feet over flat ground. This gives you an excellent frame of reference to judge speed and altitude and also affords you the opportunity to land quickly if you tire. The area behind your initial spawn in Skirmish is ideal as it should protect you from incoming fire and allow you to concentrate. You are better off without passengers to distract you, so warn them off or wait until teammates depart before calling your ship. You will be in 3rd person view upon entry. Leave it there for now.
Start by rolling and skidding left, then stop and skid right. Keep your touch light light and fly slow. The ship will tend to yaw to one side, so stay on the right stick and nudge it to keep the nose pointing forward. Your goal is to keep the nose glued forward as you slide back and forth via smooth coordination of both sticks. Don't let yourself get low enough to drag on the ground or you may find yourself beached on your side. If that happens in a safe area you can just stay inside and wait for pickup at he end of the match and you won't lose your ship.
If you need a break at any time just stop all movement and reduce thrust to set it back down.
Next practice turning in place. You will see that the faster you turn, the more you need to compensate for induced roll. Start slow and build up speed as you get he hang of it. Remember, smooth coordinated flight gives your gunners a stable platform. You don't want to be yanking their sights off target and causing them to puke. Your reputation will ride on this.
Next pitch down to slide forward and pull back to arrest your motion. Pirroet and return.
Finally do the same in reverse. Your sight picture is at its worst in this maneuver and it's easy to hit objects so don't go too fast.
That should keep you busy for your first few flights. Take it slow and methodically. These basic ground reference maneuvers will set the foundation for your flying career. If all went well you haven't broken a single bird.
Intermediate maneuvers:
You have mastered skidding around the sky on the four cardinal headings. Now you will mix them together. Set yourself up as before and skid forward to the right, stop, pivot, and repeat. Change it up and do the same thing to the left. The objective is to stay smooth and coordinated. Eventually you will stop thinking about your control inputs and the ship will become an extension of your will, going precisely where you picture. This is an exciting time for every student pilot.
Clear the area and do the same in reverse.
Now you are ready to land on a building or tower. I suggest you start with a shorter building where you will have more thrust in reserve. Boost up and slide on over to the roof. Remember, if you are below the roofline increase thrust, don't pull up. This is where all your practice pays off. Center over the roof, reduce throttle, and settle down. Congratulations! This is the point where you will want to start using the camera view shift to peek over the nose to make sure you are centered on the roof. Be aware that a direct overhead view makes it very difficult to judge roll and pitch. Hopefully we will be granted basic flight instruments in a future release to compensate.
Do this until you feel comfortable, then head to the tall towers. It's all the same here except for less reserve power as you are near your service ceiling. You may feel the excitement of looking way down at the battlefield. If so you are hooked, welcome to the fraternity of pilots! |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 21:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
You and thirty nine of your buddies hang around objective Charlie, listening to chatter about the great firefight over objective Foxtrot and wishing you could just do some shooting of your own. -áInstead it's a boring garrison detail for you.
Suddenly two fighters scream in, missiles impacting into your installations as they frantically search out the highly maneuverable craft with return fire of their own. -áAfter a mere sixty seconds your commander is screaming to the MCC for assistance as his last AV turret is blown up and what is left of his sensor net reports two inbound flights of dropships. -á About the time you spot one flight of five the missiles start raining down on your position from two directions at once. -áThe ground erupts as they slam into the outpost at a rate of twenty five per second. -áYour buddy manages to get off a swarm of his own, but the lead dropship just soaks up the damage as you see it spider linked to the others in its formation. -áMen are being shredded all around you as the two flights of five park right overhead. -áThe missile barrage ends and forty suits drop into your midst sowing instant chaos. -áYou fight a desperate battle, killing one after another, only to have them spawn over your head and drop again. -áYou go down, waiting for the spawn. -áQuickly you orient yourself to the fight only to be cut down by the door gunners facing outwards from the main battle. -áYou spawn again and manage to find cover, but you just can't make it back into the fight. -áA desperate rush just gets you cut down again. -áThis time you don't have a choice to reenter the fight, control is lost and you can't spawn there again. -áLess than four minutes from boredom to exile.
Taking objectives requires boots on the ground, and there are only three ways to get there. -áA long boring hike, a jarring ride in an LAV through rough terrain or a quick trip in a dropship. -áCommanders are going to rely upon their dropship pilots to get the troops to the fight and provide close air support to take objectives. -áThe job isn't as sexy as flying a fighter, but without transport pilots war is a slow and dangerous hike through miles of hostile terrain.
Up to this point we have been using dropships as attack ships rather than the troop transports they are, and that's why I see so many of them chased off or destroyed within a couple minutes of entering battle. -áIt's a role they aren't suited for, but lacking any other role we give it a shot. -áIt's like using a Huey with two door gunners to mow down infantry. -áAll too soon someone whips out a shoulder launched missile and it goes down.
That will change as corporations form and larger units deploy. -áI personally dropped 4-5 infantry units on objective B at the start of my -áfirst corp battle this last weekend, and witnessed a scaled down version of the story above. -áI was guarding objective C with one other team member as the real battle raged over objective B. -áI checked my mini-map and scanned the horizon and saw no enemy. -áThen a call over coms, "They've called in a dropship!" -áHmm, I think to myself, I wonder how effective it will be shooting down at B? -áBefore I knew it, the damn thing was over my head and I saw six suits (complete with names) falling just in front of our position. -áI tossed grenades and started shooting, -ábut the two of us were overrun in seconds and they group hacked the objective, locking us out. -áThat is the true power of the dropship.
In support of this I suggest that you practice smooth high speed travel and accurate placement and hover over an objective. -áAdditionally we should start practicing formation flight and experiment with spider shielding the formation.
I can also foresee a formation of stealth ships uncloaking over an objective and raining down missiles as the first indication of their presence.
There will be so much fun to be had by all. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 21:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Surviving Combat
Ok, you've mastered the basics of flight and you're itching to go out and earn some warpoints. -áHere are a few tips to be more successful.
The most important trait you can cultivate as a pilot is situational awareness. -áFancy flying is great, but the best pilots never put themselves into a position that requires it. -áThat means knowing what and where the threats are and where your safe retreat zones are. -áYou can even lose track of your position on the map if it is filled with blowing dust. -áYou don't want to be mindlessly flying around in a lazy circle and suddenly notice half your shields are gone with no idea what did it, what the nearest route of escape is and where there are likely to be additional threats that can take you down before you escape. -áGood pilots make it look easy because they are constantly planning. -á
Situational awareness starts with where you decide to call for your ship to be delivered. -áIs it open to sniping? -áAre there red dots that came come in and pop you with an AR before you can board your craft? -áAnd that goes for your gunners too. -áAre they standing around staring up into the sky with their mouths open or are they scanning the area for red dots?
A great analogy is the game of pool. -áGood players can run the table, and great players make it look inevitable. -áWhy? -áBecause they meticulously planed the route they took around the table to avoid traps and always give themselves an easy next shot. -áPoor players think of only the next shot and find themselves boxed in without a second shot. -áYou notice that as a pilot when you are pinned up against a mountainside with no speed and a forge gunner taking you down.
Don't be seduced by juicy targets. Keep asking yourself, "Where will I go if I get hit now?" and "What is the biggest threat for me right now?" -áThe kills will come if you keep your ship in the air.
The next most important tip is to always keep moving. -áIt is fun to drift lazily over the battlefield and let your gunners get easy shots, but one forge gunner can ruin your day in moments. -áDon't give them a stationary target. -á
Everyone knows that dropships can outrun swarms, but that doesn't make them a non-threat. -áIt's all too easy to find yourself slow and vulnerable. -áThe low flight ceiling imposed by the Codex build means you have little altitude to convert into horizontal motion in a hurry. -áIf you are at the edge of a map bordered by tall hills (I'm not going to dignify them with the term mountain) your ship will be wallowing in an attempt just to remain above terrain. -áTilt your ship to gain quick speed and you will contact that terrain and crash. -áEven in the middle of the map you have precious little altitude to sacrifice in order to tip your ship past 45 degrees in emergency acceleration. That's what can happen when you are only thinking that next target and not how to "run the table". -á
A dropship is a team vehicle. -áIts effectiveness is directly related to the ability of the pilot and gunners to act as a coordinated team. -áCultivate relationships with good gunners. -áRandom blue dots are a liability as they will shoot the ship and mess up your piloting. -áThey won't have mic's and won't alert you to threats you can't see. -áIt's worth it to join a corp or visit the 0K0D channel to find dedicated gunners. -áIt takes practice to learn to lead shots from a moving ship and some folks will take to it more naturally than others. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 21:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fitting:
Obviously your options multiply if you can tank a couple forge gun rounds without going down, so defense is a big part of your strategy. -áI run a Myron so this advice is for shield tankers. -áI run three 748hp shield extenders and one Clarity Ward Shield Booster. -áShield extenders are significantly better than shield hardeners in effect. -áThe top passive hardener only gives you a 15% percent bonus. -áYou would require a total shield strength of -á5,000 Hp before a hardener would be a better deal than an extender. -áAdd the fact that the Shield Adaptation skill has a 5X cost and it's ridiculous to consider. -áYes, you'll have to skill up to L4 in Engineering to get -áthe PG to fit those extenders, but it's far cheaper in skill points. -á That puts a Myron at 3,944Hp not counting your Shield Management skill level. -áAdd L3 SM and you are at 4,199Hp.
With such a deep tank you can rely upon the shield booster to give you another effective 750 Hp (5 pulses of 150Hp) as you will most likely have the time to activate it and let it run for five seconds before your tank is depleted. -áThat can be used to regenerate your shields at a rate of 21 HP/second (with a 30 second cool down) which is a great deal when you consider that a Regeneration module won't get you anywhere near that 91% increase over your natural regeneration rate of 23HP/second. -áIf you take your SM skill to L5 your ship can effectively have 5,119Hp in shields.
The non-Breach Proto Forge Gun base damage is 1,512Hp. -áAdd L5 Weapons at 10%, L5 Forge Gun Operations at 25%, and L5 Forge Gun Proficiency at 15% and you get 2,268 Hp of damage in one shot. -áYou can take two of those without going into armor, but only if you activate your booster before he gets off the second shot. -áBy then you had better be well on your way toward your safe zone. -áYou do know where that is without having to think about it, don't you? Meanwhile your gunner took notice of the first strike and tossed a missile his way to mess up the forge gunners aim.
CRU's should be reserved for corp battles. -áThey take up a high slot and a significant amount of CPU and PG that is better spent on defense. -áBut even more than that, the CRU will populate your ship with half a dozen clones, two of which are poor gunners and four more who should be on the ground. -áIt doesn't do you team any good to have seven members tied up on to turrets. -áThe red dots will likely slaughter the remaining troops and are free to haul out more AV to use against you.
There is no way you haven't already read that missile turrets are the way to go for weapons. -áBuy the best ones you have the skill or ISK for.
You have a choice with your low slots. -áIt's a choice between -á20% damage modifiers and Nano Fiber Chassis mods. I use one of each. -áThe damage is too good to pass up, but I also prefer speed and agility.-á
While you can fit and even trigger the HAV and LAV prop mods they don't do anything for you that I can determine. -áI ran a series of tests including a ground rest to flight ceiling acceleration timing and a rotation timing test. -áNeither yielded any significant results. -áThe Afterburner mod does work, but only the armor ship as enough PG to fit it, and that's stripping the ship bare for it. -á
Tactics:
Skirmish has one safe zone for you, and most Ambush maps have two. -áNobody fights in them on the rocky map, but they are open for you to use to turn around or hide in. -áTry to be useful in Skirmish. -áYou should already know what's happing below you based on your situational awareness, so you should know where your gunners would be most appreciated. -áSupport objective pushes or pound the enemy as they try to overwhelm one of yours.
Don't fly into a box canyon. -áIf you do you will have to slow down to turn around and that might mean swarms catching up to you. -áThat includes any tight space surrounded by hills.
Don't worry too much about enemy dropships. -áIt's extremely difficult to hit a moving target from a moving ship and you need several direct hits to make any difference. -áOne or even two enemy ships are unlikely to take you down, so keep an eye on them but don't obsess about them either. -áThat said, if you do go after one go for the altitude advantage so your gunners can fire down and the enemy can't fire up.
Despite all this you will eventually get hit by a flight of swarms that will stop you in your tracks and push you backwards. -áDon't try to reverse the momentum and resume your course. -áThat leaves an easy target as you hang in one place. -áInstead, pivot and boost in whatever direction the swarms have you moving. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 14:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jak Teston wrote:One maneuver I practiced early was jumping from cover to cover.
When there are swarm launchers in the vicinity and you can't take much more damage it's a good thing to know how to get from behind one building to the next one in the minimum amount of time possible at a heading of your liking. Being able to fly in any direction regardless of heading is important so you can lead incoming missiles into obstacles.
Also, practicing "full stop to full speed back to full stop" is a good lesson to learn when you want to pick up gunners without being in a pre-made squad. People will judge you on your ability to land smoothly and momentum management is key in a smooth landing. A wonky and thus lengthy landing also makes you a prime target for all kinds of threats, so practice this a lot.
This is why you are best off mastering the early lessons before you run off and start your combat career. It's certainly tempting to go kill things, but you will delay your training, lose more birds, and tarnish your reputation with gunners.
In the beginning all student pilots are said to be "behind the airplane". This describes the state of reacting to what the craft is doing at the moment. All thought is "Oh, now it's drifting to the left. I have to move the left stick to the right. Now my nose is wandering to the right, I need to push the right stick."
This is normal. However there will come a magical moment when you suddenly realize that you are no longer conscious of your control inputs. The ship will just go where you want it to go. This is the moment you are mentaly ahead of your craft even if you are in 3rd person view. Regular practice of the ground reference maneuvers will provide the feedback to wire this in your brain. Don't short change yourself. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 17:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sees-Too-Much wrote:Skihids wrote:Regular practice of the ground reference maneuvers will provide the feedback to wire this in your brain. Oh, this actually brings up something I've been struggling with a bit. If I get enough altitude to where I can't see buildings anymore, I have a really hard time maintaining awareness of where I am on the map. I have to use the down-looking camera after that, which is a pain in the butt and often doesn't help. Any thoughts on something that might help with that?
This is an issue that I struggle with too. I can usually shift the camera view and get my bearings, but that's only an intermittent fix. There are two problems with maintaining a downward view.
1) The lack of an instrument cluster makes maintaining a given flight attitude nearly impossible.
2) Just like the LAV controls, you loose all ability to control yaw with the camera stick all the way back. You can either view your heading or change it, but not both at the same time.
I am not sure of the best fix for this, though I have some ideas:
1) Toggle the view. This would fix the second problem and the addition of an instrument cluster would fix the first. It could cycle between 1st person, the current view, full overhead, and full rear.
2) Remove the camera centering. This however could introduce more problems than it solves as an inadvertent bump (all too easily done when using the stick for yaw control), and you loose spatial awareness. Some center toggle would probably be required in addition to instruments.
3) Configure the mini map so it maintains the building display when at altitude and adds the red zone boundary. This could be done in addition to either of the first two options.
4) Remove yaw from the right stick and put it on the floor in the form of rudder pedals where it belongs, then the right stick can be pure camera movement. As much as I would love this arrangement, it would mean adding a second piece of hardware which doesn't exist. I would gladly cannibalize a spare DS3 to wire into a set of rudder pedals, but I can't see CCP requiring it. Perhaps they could make that an optional control arrangement for those of us willing to do a little hardware hacking? |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 23:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Raynor Ragna wrote:I think the only way a target aircraft will know if missiles are on the way is if they are radar guided. Heat seeking and laser guided won't give off any signal. Of course an aircraft could search for fast moving threats (I'm no expert on this stuff but that is my understanding of how they work). It would be nice to have different ammo types that could simulate this. Along with a module for counter measures.
Standard missiles could be radar guided which gives pilots a warning alarm when they are on their way. They could however have beter object detection and could avoid more obsticles to hit their mark.
Heat seaking misiles wouldn't give off a signal but could be easier to out manuver since if they pass their target, they can not longer see their target.
I'm not quite sure about laser guided missiles.
A lockon warning would only be possible if the weapon had an active guidance system such as radar or laser. Passive systems would give no lockon warning and that would be a great weapon diierentiator. Once the missile launched an onboard system could easily detect them if only by visual or heat signature.
As was pointed out though, good gunners will most probably be just as effective. I just haven't had the privilege of flying with a pair yet. |
|
|
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 03:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:Should be stickied, and OP should put this on his New Eden resume'.
The ability to teach that which is difficult will make you a great asset to whatever corp buys your soul.
I'm warning you, flattery will get you everywhere! |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 20:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
mcbob mcbob wrote:anybody know if it's effective to try repairing the shields of tanks from a dropship?
The DEVs talked about doing it with two DS's repping one tank and each other in one of the trailers. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 01:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
I just replaced the "Advanced Manuvers" post upthread with a story and my experience with drophship assaults in the weekend Corp battles. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 06:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bogart Meecheegun wrote:Just flew against Sikhids. Quality flying man.
Was that you in the ship over the mountain map in ambush? You were my first real dogfight opponent. While it was quite exciting I felt a little bad about taking down a fellow pilot. You fought well, and I have my anonymous gunner to thank for the victory. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 18:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sha Kharn Clone wrote:Not sure if its been posted but you cant fly upside down for any length of time to make it worthwhile. Dropship just dont have da power which is a shame  Would love it if they fixed this so I could really confuse my gunners. Main reason I was trying this was to get the dam wingy bits out the way and give better firing arcs to the gunners.
Go back and reread the "Physics of Dropship Flight" post on page one. There I describe how a dropship is basically a brick held up by thrust from underneath. There is no wing to hold you up. When you flip the brick upside down you are now thrusting DOWN and aiding gravity in its quest to invite you into a new clone body. A more powerful engine would only speed up the process. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 23:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tbone322 wrote:This thread has made me love being a dropship pilot again!! I was able to use my DS for 3 games in a row until I happened upon moronic gunners that, long story short, got me killed. Great stuff in this thread!
Thanks for the endorsement. I am very happy to hear that we haved helped train another pilot.
Please consider stopping by the 0k0d channel in chat to find gunners and talk to other pilots. Even if there aren't any dedicated gunners in the channel other pilots might want to trade off lying and gunning with you. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 05:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sees-Too-Much wrote:So I finally got a chance to sit down and play for a couple hours. I devoted that time to fielding cheap vipers and trying to fly them at high speed and low altitudes to get practice avoiding swarms. Has not been going well. I don't think the problem is the doctrine, I just haven't gotten the hang of the precise flying involved. Plus swarms are still super popular. Also, I managed to get really bad latency problems in a game that featured two guys with forge guns. Being stopped dead in front of guys with forge guns is not good for a dropship's structural integrity. 
If CCP has modeled the physics correctly you quadruple your turn radius when you double your speed, so high speed slaloming is impossible. Nanos reduce your mass and mitigate that to a point.
Given the wingless nature of the DS I'm of the opinion that they just don't have what it takes to dodge. Instead they need missile counter measures. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 19:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Skihids has this thread been linked in the new Training forum? Seems like it would fit right in there and be easier to locate for Mercs new to piloting.
Cheers,
Cross
I hadn't noticed the new Training forum until you mentioned it right now. It appears someone has already taken care of the link. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 04:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
kyan west wrote:can you compare the dropship flight to helicopter flight in battlefield 3? 
Not personally as I've never flown in BF3.
However I would guess that you can perform a real banked turn in BF3 if they modeled helicopters correctly. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 18:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Slightly turn the analog stick and fly in a big circle
????????
Profit
This is a training thread. Please use one of the dozen ds/sl threads in the general discussion or feedback sections to discuss balance issues. |
|
|
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 23:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
I've consolidated a couple of the orginal posts and shifted them up to make room for a two post thread on "Surviving Combat". Let me know what you think, and if you have any suggestions for improvement. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 05:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mike Krieger wrote:First off, thanks for the advice! It's helped me immensely in figuring out the flying mechanics the last few days. I've found that flying is actually one of my favorite things to do in this game, which might not have been the case if my first experience with it was flipping the bird upside down and crashing into a mountain.
I'm curious if your build advice still stands? I'm running a Myron at the moment as well, but I've been hearing that some recent patches changed dropship damage capabilities, missiles specifically. That and some posts seem to paint this as a horrible time to be a pilot.
I'm also curious what kind of dropsuit you'd recommend as a pilot, since they haven't instituted pilot suits yet. I've just been running as a Logi when I'm on the ground or when I find myself trying to conserve ISK. Does it even matter at all?
Thanks for the feedback. I'm pleased to increase the ranks of passionate pilots, let's make our voices heard so flying is a valued role in DUST.
I'll be honest, dropships aren't particularly profitable here at the tail end of Codex. That said, I am optimistic that future builds will turn that around. My advice would be to continue to practice in the safety of your spawn to hone your player skill. We can still reach the roof of the base buildings so you can use those for spot landing practice.
The best Myron fitting is three Azotropic Shield Extenders and one Clarity Ward Shield Booster in the highs. You should survive exploring the battlefield with that when you get bored with your spawn. Just don't loiter too long in any one spot.
Small Missile turrets are still your best offense as bad as they are. Good gunners can get some kills, but be aware that you are the equivalent of a heavy sporting a Scrambler pistol. I fit two 20% damage modules for them.
When I flew in Ambush matches I would wear a Scout suit with a drop uplink. That would let me run to safety and let my squad mates spawn in to be my gunners without having to fit a CRU. In skirmish I wear Assault in case I get shot down and survive bailing out. I might get lucky and kill the forge gunner who took me out. Logi with a rep tool is also a good choice. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 05:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Axierastos Satrap wrote:Thanks for the info. Btw, is there any chance for Gorgon/Viper, even properly (hardskin) fitted to survive red-line-HAVs onceshot? I guess yes only if one is skilled up enough.
EDIT: Also, do you think fitting Active Scanner make sense, as one does not fight while learn to flight DS -- this way at leas tsomehow is of benefit to his team.
I'd like to hear how effective active scanners are when fitted on a dropship. I haven't seen a detailed enough description of how they operate to have any idea. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 22:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kail Danyal wrote:Excellent! I appreciate all the info. I've been putting my skills into vehicle use, especially for the Dropship, but have had a hard time getting the hang of just flying. The first time I jumped in and lifted off and was immediately sent topsy turvy into the ground and crashed due to a swarmer. I couldnt regain control and that was it. Sort of anticlimatic, especially given that I'd spent a bunch of ISK outfitting it, sigh. I wish there was some kind of VR training room or something just so I could get the hang of flying without then becoming deadweight for the team while practicing in the middle of a battle. Thanks for the tips, this will put me one step closer to being a full time pilot!
Try for Manus Peak Skirmish mode. Your spawn area is large and safe enough to practice in. Don't risk a combat area, especially at this point in the Codex build. Folk's will just chuckle and haul out swarms or use you for FG practice. Even good pilots aren't flying right now. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 18:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
VicBoss wrote:Just asking OP could this be used for a tutorial on the Immortal Mercenary Press Newspaper?
Its a good tutorial on dropships and i think it would be beneficial to many people if it could be reposted on the online newspaper, of course the credit would be given to you.
Thanks
You may certainly republish this tutorial. My goal is to help train the first generation of DUST pilots and advocate for a deeper and more rewarding role in the skies. Pilots should have as deep a skill tree as the ground pounders.
I'm also currently scripting a video tutorial that should be a little more clear and effective as I can include flight footage and diagrams to make the points clear.
I'm taking my time to get it right and make it more than just a montage of me flying around. Feel free to post or drop me mail in game if you have thoughts on what I can include that would make things clear for a beginner (i.e. things you still had to figure out for yourself after reading this tutorial).
|
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 18:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:I read this back when I first started playing...and I had no idea we were in the same corp till just now.
Your the only reason I even know how to get off the ground.
Thank you for this, Skihids. Technically speaking he never does discuss which button is the throttle :P
Thanks for the feedback, I will be sure to include that in my video tutorial.
It's meaningful to me because the one time I got into a dropship in the E3 build I was blown up on the ground for lack of knowing L1 was "Advance Throttle". |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 05:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
My reward is to see more trained DUST pilots who will pool their voices to demand a role equal to that of the ground pounders. Implore CCP to give us the same depth and breadth of skill tree and equipment that infantry gets and you will make my day.
|
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 21:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
For those trying to understand the best fit:
Assumptions
1) you have the PG and CPU to fit whatever module you want
2) you are trying to maximize total eHP [effective HP = HP * (1+hardener)] for each slot
This means you want:
MAX ( the best extender, current HP * (1 + the best hardener) )
Assuming we are going passive those numbers are 748HP and current HP * 1.15
How much total HP would we need before 15% of it would be equal to 748?
0.15 * X = 748
Or
X = 748 / 0.15
Or
4,987 HP
So you keep stacking Shield Extenders until you reach that number, after which you stack hardeners.
For the Myron that means all Extenders.
Now if you don't have the fitting requirements you would be forced to use the lower cost module which means a hardener, but you know that it is a sub-optimal choice.
If you decide you want active hardeners the number is 0.3 which gives you a threshold of 2,494 HP to beat. My personal calculations add 15% of a typical FG hit to account for the surprise strike when you don't have it activated.
That once again leads to all extenders.
Well all extenders and one Booster. The Booster is worth one extender after it completes its short active cycle. If you have enough tank, that short time won't be a big drawback. The huge upside is that it gives you an effective recharge rate far exceeding the passive rate even when skilled all the way up. That means you won't have to sit out half the match nursing your wounds.
You need a decent tank, so that generally means only one booster. Too many at the expense of a deep tank and you risk going down before you can activate all your boosters.
|
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
1245
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 04:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
I'm working on a full rewrite of this guide for Uprising as there are enough changes to warrant it.
I'll also be adding a few diagrams to better explain the flight physics. I know that I learn better with diagrams and I figure other folks do too.
I hope to post the initial guide over the weekend. Meanwhile, the sections on flight physics and initial training still holds.
Add any specific topics you would like to see addressed here and I will include it in the rewrite. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
1246
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 20:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:Skihids, could you hit on missiles VS blasters on ADS front turrets? I've used the militia variants and was a die-hard fan of the stabilized blaster in chromosome, but I refuse to spend any SP into it until I hear some outside opinions.
I do plan on a complete fitting section for new pilots.
I'll give it a try myself if others don't beat me to the punch. I was going to save the SP it would take to skill Hybrid turrets, but the skills are fairly cheap since Prof was removed.
Meanwhile, how do people feel about going double Shield Booster over one with the AB? I built a Myron that way in the last build so I could linger longer in battle, but I didn't get enough data to evaluate its success or failure.
Or perhaps you like to go pure passive tank with a full compliment of extenders? Personally I don't have the patience to sit out of battle long enough to get a deep tank built back up passively, but with the price of the ADS we have to be somewhat conservative. |
|
|
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
1246
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 20:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
That was my thinking to from having used both blasters and rails as a gunner on tanks and other dropships.
Missiles are the one weapon combining splash damage with the ability to fire an move on. Rails let you hit and run, but require precise aim for direct hits and blasters demand you linger on target too long. Doing that for my gunners cost me many a ship in the last build. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
1257
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 20:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jonathan Panderson wrote:Thanks, Skihids! Your guide was super helpful when I was first learning to fly and I really look forward to the rewrite! ^O^ v I'm curious about some of the new dropship mechanics and I'm not sure if other folks have been experiencing this, but sometimes the rear thrusters on my ship turn parallel to the ground and I unintentionally end up zipping off somewhere! It's pretty scary stuff when near structures and I just don't know what the heck I'm doing that's causing this. o.oa MAYDAY! MAYDAY! Pandacopter down... T-T
Yeah, that caught me by surprise too. I saw the engines pointed straight back and figured I would fall out of the sky.
I suspect the new mechanics are there to prevent us from having to maintain a huge nose down angle to fly fast in the horizontal plane like we did in the past. Do you recall being in afterburner and bouncing/dragging along the hard flight ceiling because you couldn't get your nose down far enough not to have a huge upward component of thrust? This would eliminate that and shows that CCP Blam has actually been working on flight mechanics. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
1257
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 20:16:00 -
[33] - Quote
BTW, it would be great if you could pop over to My Dropship chase camera survey and let me know what you think.
I want to give CCP Blam some numbers to back up what I think we want in the camera. |
Skihids
the tritan industries
RISE of LEGION
1646
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 00:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
Genome Kipnis wrote:Nice guide Im impressed with the time and effort
Thanks!
I edited the Flight Controls post to explain the new engine swivel behavior that came with Uprising. |
Skihids
the tritan industries
RISE of LEGION
1646
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 04:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
I really don't want this thread to become a referendum on DUST. Let's just keep it about the mechanics of flying dropships and leave the politics for General Discussions please. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2006
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 23:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Skihids wrote:
Unlike a fixed wing or rotary wing aircraft, a dropship has no wing and that will likely be the most difficult concept to internalize as a new pilot. This has a few implications you need to be aware of:
1) All other aircraft can trade forward motion for altitude, but you cannot. An airplane obtains lift via airflow over the wing. The faster it moves, the more lift it generates.
...
3) You cannot perform banked turns.
I'm not sure this is strictly true any more. Disclaimer: I'm a rookie. just recently started learning piloting. That being said: the dropships seem more like VTOL aircraft now. Initially, the thrusters are locked downwards, so it behaves like a helicopter. However.. when you get the forward momentum going, and the thrusters lock in the aft direction... the handling seems to change. I havent had enough time to play with it yet. However, i'll observe that it no longer seems like it is just "L1 = up, L2 = down". which would make sense, seeing as how the thrusters are no longer pointed down! My hunch is that, just like real life jets have a particular stall speed under which the wings give insufficient lift (and it's quite a high speed, comparatively!) -- the dropships have been coded so that, when they are travelling at sufficient speed, they perform in a slightly aerodynamic way. Emphasis on the slightly Do note, also, that the alleged rated top speed of the things, is 2500km/h. That's an order of magnitude faster than ground vehicles.
It's easy to feel that the engine swivel turns the dropship into a winged aircraft, but no, you don't spout wings.
Try flying at full throttle then yaw the ship around 180. You will see that you can still manage to pirouette and are now flying backwards. The swiveled engines mess with a perfect spin, but it still happens.
In real life the ship should act as a lifting body to give the effect you describe, but I doubt they coded that in.
|
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2026
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 19:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
L1 is the throttle, so holding it down increases the thrust in whatever direction the engines are pointed.
The engines are locked mostly back, but partly down. This propels the ship forward at high velocity and keeps it suspended in the air. Holding L1 will naturally push it forward rather than straight up.
If you were around during closed beta when the afterburner was several times as powerful and the engine swivel didn't exist. It was very difficult to fly forward under AB without slamming into the artificial hard flight ceiling of Chromosome. The pilot had to push the nose down about 80 degrees to fly straight, and in that attitude you couldn't see where you were flying.
You can think about swivel not so much as swinging the engines back as leaving the engines where they were and tilting the nose bcck up.
In swivel mode you can think of the dropship like the ship in the old Asteroids game. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2026
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 04:26:00 -
[38] - Quote
I'm not sure about the precise trigger(s), but the effect of those triggers is the intent to fly fast and to stop.
It's probably just forward velocity, but that requires an initial nose down attitude along with an advanced throttle so you won't be able to pick them apart. Likewise the only way I know to kill forward velocity without crashing is a radical pitch up.
The pitch or the lost velocity could be the trigger, but it doesn't really matter as it all happens at the same time. Well, one would result in additional altitude so you could test by a low level zoom followed by a pitch up. If you brake immediately without gaining altitude it's the pitch up. If you climb until you slow down it's velocity. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2045
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Johnny dropship wrote:Cool, this combined with Judge's videos are great for learning how to fly.
Could I maybe ask for an update on the fitting info though? This was made over a year ago so it doesn't have assault dropships.
Or would the same still apply?
Everything about fitting is going to change in 1.5 so I suggest you search or other pilots fittings for now and we will ll figure out the new fitting together.
I'm currently working on an illustrated Dropship Flight School guide (PDF) where I can use pictures to make concepts clearer. That will also give me room to add sections on fitting and tactics. At present I'm relearning how to edit images on multiple layers in my old software and that's slowing me down.
Hopefully I'll have V1.0 out in another week. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2054
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 14:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Why isn't this stickied?
It is mentioned in this stickied post which links many useful threads.
That's probably better than crowding the whole front page with stickied threads. |
|
|
|
|
| |
|