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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
33
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Posted - 2013.09.03 16:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Skihids wrote:
Unlike a fixed wing or rotary wing aircraft, a dropship has no wing and that will likely be the most difficult concept to internalize as a new pilot. This has a few implications you need to be aware of:
1) All other aircraft can trade forward motion for altitude, but you cannot. An airplane obtains lift via airflow over the wing. The faster it moves, the more lift it generates.
...
3) You cannot perform banked turns.
I'm not sure this is strictly true any more.
Disclaimer: I'm a rookie. just recently started learning piloting. That being said:
the dropships seem more like VTOL aircraft now. Initially, the thrusters are locked downwards, so it behaves like a helicopter.
However.. when you get the forward momentum going, and the thrusters lock in the aft direction... the handling seems to change. I havent had enough time to play with it yet. However, i'll observe that it no longer seems like it is just
"L1 = up, L2 = down". which would make sense, seeing as how the thrusters are no longer pointed down!
My hunch is that, just like real life jets have a particular stall speed under which the wings give insufficient lift (and its quite a high speed, comparatively!), the dropships have been coded so that, when they are travelling at sufficient speed, they perform in a slightly aerodynamic way. Emphasis on the slightly
Do note, also, that the alleged rated top speed of the things, is 2500km/h. That's an order of magnitude faster than ground vehicles.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
34
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 18:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:My hunch is that, just like real life jets have a particular stall speed under which the wings give insufficient lift (and it's quite a high speed, comparatively!) -- the dropships have been coded so that, when they are travelling at sufficient speed, they perform in a slightly aerodynamic way. Emphasis on the slightly... It's easy to feel that the engine swivel turns the dropship into a winged aircraft, but no, you don't spout wings. Try flying at full throttle then yaw the ship around 180. You will see that you can still manage to pirouette and are now flying backwards. The swiveled engines mess with a perfect spin, but it still happens. In real life the ship should act as a lifting body to give the effect you describe, but I doubt they coded that in.
Please note that I didnt say "lifting body". I said "aerodynamic". These are not neccessarily interchangable.
A rocket.. or a bullet for that matter... does not have aerodynamic lift. But it does have aerodynamic properties.
or even if it doesnt, I'm wondering if the handling is different. Trouble is, many(most?) maps are too small to get the chance to test out full-speed handling. BRING ON FULL-SIZED MAPS!!
Unfortunately, i didnt get to test out my theories yesterday. Krazy day. Maybe tonight.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
42
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 18:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:
Unfortunately, i didnt get to test out my theories yesterday. Krazy day. Maybe tonight.
I got to test it some yesterday  Seems i was mostly right.
When you seriously get up to speed (ie: around where you see the wind-turbulence animation around you, and you've got the thrusters locked rearwards) the dropship handles different, as follows:
* Holding down L1, does not take you up (if you are level). And in fact, it may be required to keep holding L1 down, to keep the vehicle in this mode. Atmospheric drag at 2000km/h is.. well... a drag 
* Using yaw, is unneccessary, and actually undesirable
* Handling is like a standard jet, if you have your controls set to "standard". That is to say:
- pulling left stick slightly towards you, changes your flightpath to be UP. It doesnt slow you down
- similar for pushing away from you.
- left turning, is most simply done, by a slight left left-stick, along with pulling it slightly towards you. Right turn is done similarly.
Note that the above behaviour requires that you do mild control inputs. I have not tested the boundaries of it, but doing extreme inputs, or doing almost any yaw at all, has the tendency of disrupting this mode, or at the least, the smooth travel of it.
Lose smoothness, you lose speed. Lose enough speed, and you change mode.
(durnit, wanted to find an animation of a veritech transforming from jet fighter to guardian mode. google fail :( )
It's understandable that most pilots don't even go this fast, so havent played with it much, seeing as how it will take you across smaller maps in, what, 1 second, and then you're into redline? 
Reminder: if the in-game spec is to believed;
LAVs travel at 110km/h top speed
Dropship top speed is 2500km/h
That's ~40km/min, or ... 690m/sec??? wait, that cant be right.
... maybe order of magnitude off? it could definitely be 69m/sec though or faster. It's crazy-fast even in a gorgon with no torque or afterburner modules.
Actually USING this mode effectively, would require very different tactics than what we usually see now.
Right now, the dropships are being used for not much more than gently floating blimps.
It's rather too bad.
For an assault dropship,using this sort of tactic with the pilot turret would potentially turn it into a tactical (jet)fighter.
Think strafing runs.
Plus side: moving too fast for any kind of AV lockon to happen. You'd have to be in the right place with a railgun, and target manually.
Negative: really, really difficult to do without crashing into the ground. So, potentially best use as A-A or anti-tower camping?
For a more regular, troup-based style, this can rule in an open map, with a small number of players per team.
Take some troups and zip in to take an objective, para-dropping in, while you take the extra time to land.
Then before the virus even has time to finish taking over that objective, you can have them at a second one.
The other team wont be able to keep up. Nor will they be able to competantly protect any one objective with 2 vs 5 troups.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
44
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Posted - 2013.09.05 20:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Do you have insight as to what specifically triggers the rear swivel, and even better, what trigggers the UNswivel?
Would you say it is purely based on groundspeed? Or are the other factors? For example, to get INTO it, I think the following conditions are required:
1. be going faster than some trivial amount of speed, and have the nose within (X?) degrees of current velocity
2. while DS is tilted forward, pilot has to be holding down L1, then pull back on left stick to flatten out the pitch.
Under these conditions, the thrusters will swivel to be mostly rear-facing, and lock into that position, which has the seeming effect of holding the thrusters in place while bringing the nose up.
I'm curious as to what will bring it out of that state, though. Will a sudden nose-up condition trigger it? Is it perhaps more generally if nose gets more than (?) degrees away from direction of travel, it happens?
Will letting go the L1 for more than X seconds trigger it?
Or is it rather that, when any/all of (lack of L1 thrust/application of L2 negative thrust/90 degree nose turn) results in
(groundspeed? airspeed?) dropping below X, that it happens?
It would probably take me a long time to test all the possibilities, and I have only minimal game time free tonight, so if you already know the answer, it would be much appreciated if you would share :) |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
51
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 05:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skihids wrote:I'm not sure about the precise trigger(s), but the effect of those triggers is the intent to fly fast and to stop.
It's probably just forward velocity, but that requires an initial nose down attitude along with an advanced throttle so you won't be able to pick them apart.
[/quote]
Turns out that the "advanced throttle".. or at least the concept of "holding the throttle button down", is not required. it would seem to be airspeed across the nose that is the primary trigger.
Getting the beastie reasonably high up (100m?) and letting go L1, where it just hovers... an then tipping the nose down without touching throttle, will rear-tilt the thrusters after airspeed picks up.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
51
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 06:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:
For an assault dropship,using this sort of tactic (high speed runs) with the pilot turret would potentially turn it into a tactical (jet)fighter.
Think strafing runs.
Plus side: moving too fast for any kind of AV lockon to happen. You'd have to be in the right place with a railgun, and target manually.
Negatives: I'd think you could only use railguns, or accelerated missile turrets.
Really, really difficult to angle down, when near the ground, without crashing into the ground. You can only make gentle turns in this mode. So, potentially best use as A-A or anti-tower camping?
Or possibly anti-turret runs, since you should be able to aim and shoot from them at a distance+height, then pull up safely.
I got to try this tonight, after creating a new alt, and throwing 3mil ISK at it.
This....is very difficult!
Doesnt help that the pilot ground-scanner is Le Suck. You have to be able to visually target from a distance.
BUG!!
I was basically able to only get off one shot on-target against a ground turret at speed. (and avoid crashing ;)
A good pilot would probably be able to get off two. but given that these are "light" weapon turrets onboard the dropship, the effectiveness is questionable.
That's too bad.
Guess the only way to use assault dropships against "hard" targets, is to get in close, then use the fancy flying, "circle with your rear in the air" moves, to avoid getting shot down.
Yikes!
Putting a blaster in front should do pretty well against infantry I guess though. |
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