DUST Search - Triage Ward

True Adamance wrote:

MINA Longstrike wrote:

It has to do with preferred racial doctrines from eve.

Caldari = Siege warfare, they take a position and fortify it (with rep hives) and don't allow others to come near them they always have ammo and grenades to repel assaults. When you see 'hyper entrenched' positions in dust... it's always nanohive spam (with a helping of uplinks too).
Minmatar = Skirmish warfare, they blitz and area kill everything, quickly rep up the 'wounded' and move on to the next area a mobile repair tool is what allows them to be everywhere. A logi can stick with a roving force and keep them up through multiple skirmishes with a rep tool.
Gallente = Information warfare, the scanner outright gives them information allowing them to strike the right spots with flanks, feints and sudden attacks, a good scanner will also pick up scouts which allows denial of information. Scanner is all about information, more for you less for them.
Amarr = Armored warfare, the amarr are all about breaking an enemies will and don't care so much about 'dying' because uplinks allow them to always bring in their slow moving but incredibly heavily armored sentinels / assaults / commando's right to the forefront of a fight steadily grinding their opponents down. Supply lines are incredibly important to armored warfare doctrines, and the amarr logi dramatically shortens supply lines of people.

I've done much longer explanations of this concept before.

Indeed it may do.......that being said.....

Minmatar Logistics ships do not tend to repair armour do they? More over when I think guerilla warfare I think sabotage and IED's held together by twine and collective rebel willpower.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.30 03:30:00 - [331] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Indeed, honestly moments like this (when combined with all the feedback in the Speed/eHP thread... yes I've read every post in there... ) makes me think perhaps CCP should just normalize strafe speed across the boards (or something closer to it) and pull it back to nearer the ~60% levels of prior builds. If it is indeed the "wiggle dance" that is so combat potent that it can define what is the best slayer suit (as is being suggested by various players on the forums and off), and it is also widely acknowledged that it is a form of breaking the in game hit detection, then isn't it time to take that tool off the table for everyone? But saying that, even here, seems like it's just lighting a fuse and waiting to be flamed A solid speed/hp framework would still be a good thing to have, but I'd love to see inertia implemented and wiggle put to rest. If inertia isn't possible, maybe we should iterate slowly downward from 0.9 rather than jumping straight down to 0.6; could be that there's a good spot in between these extremes. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.05.30 07:20:00 - [332] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Butt hurt TryHards want the Logi nerfed after it finally receives the buffs we've been fighting for, for over a year. Got it. Scouts waited a year for 1.8. We absolutely needed to be nerfed afterwards. With all due respect, I'd be thinking about contingencies if I were in your shoes. Just in case :-) @ Cross On the topic of contingencies ... if GalLogi usage were to go up, GalScout usage would follow. The uparmored "Assault Lite" which would follow wouldn't be as potent as in the past, but it could still potentially pose utilization and efficiency problems. In the unlikely event that this happens, I'd recommend we respond immediately by increasing mobility penalties on plates (ferro included) when equipped by Scouts. Indeed, honestly moments like this (when combined with all the feedback in the Speed/eHP thread... yes I've read every post in there... ) makes me think perhaps CCP should just normalize strafe speed across the boards (or something closer to it) and pull it back to nearer the ~60% levels of prior builds. If it is indeed the "wiggle dance" that is so combat potent that it can define what is the best slayer suit (as is being suggested by various players on the forums and off), and it is also widely acknowledged that it is a form of breaking the in game hit detection, then isn't it time to take that tool off the table for everyone? But saying that, even here, seems like it's just lighting a fuse and waiting to be flamed hands Cross more tinder Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.30 07:41:00 - [333] - Quote Been thinking about this issue a bit more in the last day or so.....but perhaps this mobility curve might suffice to balance the classes somewhat more than initially though. That being said I still don't agree with seeing the Assault class mobility attributes reduced as much as they are (though it won't be such an issue if Rattati keeps t this idea of increasing the assault sprint modifier). Would definitely like to see the Logi move faster but perhaps that doesn't have to come at the determent of the Assaults capacity to sprint to reach new engagements. If that is retained walking slower doesn't concern me in the slightest. Gotta admit that at this point I think I was wrong to react as hastily as I did. "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.05.30 08:42:00 - [334] - Quote I've been quietly trying to foster some discussion regarding the idea of differently sized grenades. So standard 'medium' grenades would probably be the gamut of what we currently have (and it might include a core locus grenade nerf as that thing is unbelievably stupid). These grenades would go to the assault and basic medium frame... and maaaaybe to scout. Light grenades would probably be more 'support' oriented and for an example a 'light' flux grenade would have the same explosion size but half the damage. These would go to logistics and maybe commando's and would probably be oriented towards destroying equipment - not people. Heavy grenades would be sentinel only pure nasties and could include heavy av grenades (think wiyrkomi breach forge gun round in your pocket) or heavy contact grenades (700 damage on direct hit?). They'd probably be limited to one or two of them and they shouldn't exactly be easy to use. I've spent some time thinking about this as based on some of the 'KDR' numbers I think that there are some balance concerns with current grenades - A prime example would be the callogi sitting at the >3 kdr, which i think might have something to do with core locus grenades (at least that's my hunch) and commando's could maybe use 'something' to help them out a little bit more. I've also experienced some dropsuits "overperforming" against suits that they probably shouldn't: logi's with flux grenades & rifles can absolutely wreck a shield oriented suit for example. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
RedBleach LeSanglant Molon Labe. RUST415 836	Posted - 2015.05.30 21:05:00 - [335] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Side note, everyone who has/intends to have the suit make sure to vote in the poll about Amarr logi slot iteration http://strawpoll.me/4482668/r can't seem to vote... just see results... I'm am sad The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4	Posted - 2015.05.31 04:28:00 - [336] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Side note, everyone who has/intends to have the suit make sure to vote in the poll about Amarr logi slot iteration http://strawpoll.me/4482668/r can't seem to vote... just see results... I'm am sad Did I break the link somehow >.< CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5	Posted - 2015.05.31 05:32:00 - [337] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Side note, everyone who has/intends to have the suit make sure to vote in the poll about Amarr logi slot iteration http://strawpoll.me/4482668/r can't seem to vote... just see results... I'm am sad Did I break the link somehow >.< remove the "/r" at the end 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4	Posted - 2015.05.31 15:47:00 - [338] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Cross Atu wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Side note, everyone who has/intends to have the suit make sure to vote in the poll about Amarr logi slot iteration http://strawpoll.me/4482668/r can't seem to vote... just see results... I'm am sad Did I break the link somehow >.< remove the "/r" at the end http://strawpoll.me/4482668 ^Working now? CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
nyghthawke cox Nyghthawke Industries 4	Posted - 2015.05.31 23:04:00 - [339] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: I've been quietly trying to foster some discussion regarding the idea of differently sized grenades. So standard 'medium' grenades would probably be the gamut of what we currently have (and it might include a core locus grenade nerf as that thing is unbelievably stupid). These grenades would go to the assault and basic medium frame... and maaaaybe to scout. Light grenades would probably be more 'support' oriented and for an example a 'light' flux grenade would have the same explosion size but half the damage. These would go to logistics and maybe commando's and would probably be oriented towards destroying equipment - not people. Heavy grenades would be sentinel only pure nasties and could include heavy av grenades (think wiyrkomi breach forge gun round in your pocket) or heavy contact grenades (700 damage on direct hit?). They'd probably be limited to one or two of them and they shouldn't exactly be easy to use. I've spent some time thinking about this as based on some of the 'KDR' numbers I think that there are some balance concerns with current grenades - A prime example would be the callogi sitting at the >3 kdr, which i think might have something to do with core locus grenades (at least that's my hunch) and commando's could maybe use 'something' to help them out a little bit more. I've also experienced some dropsuits "overperforming" against suits that they probably shouldn't: logi's with flux grenades & rifles can absolutely wreck a shield oriented suit for example. And here I am wanting proxy grenades. They would be optically set off so you couldn't see them, unlike remotes with a constant signal and the proxies with their passive readers. Plus you could place the proxy grenades on walls and ceilings. I mean whats wrong with a 400 point mine
Sned TheDead Failures inc. 305	Posted - 2015.06.03 14:42:00 - [340] - Quote So I was fussing around with my fits last night, and decided to try using a fit without a nanite injector. was different than what I am used to, to give context I usually run: rep tool/uplinks, nanite injector, scanner/nanohives so a nanite injector has been a staple that I have used for a while, and I was wondering if any one had any tips on the equipment to use instead of the injector, or if I should keep it on the suit. thx in advance. Cleaning up the mess everyone leaves behind :)

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.03 14:52:00 - [341] - Quote Nanite injectors are really what logi's are all about if you plan on doing anything team support oriented. There's not many things in the game that allow you to pick dead teammates back up. Armor will come back by itself without a rep tool/triage hive. Ammo requires a trip to a depot if nothing else. Uplinks are only one way of shortening travel times. Scanners are also only one way of locating opponents. Nanite injectors are the only way of picking up a downed ally. If i have to drop anything from my fits, its usually a rep tool. As a callogi I often run pro injector, adv uplink and adv or pro triage hives. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
nyghthawke cox Nyghthawke Industries 4	Posted - 2015.06.03 21:43:00 - [342] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Butt hurt TryHards want the Logi nerfed after it finally receives the buffs we've been fighting for, for over a year. Got it. Scouts waited a year for 1.8. We absolutely needed to be nerfed afterwards. With all due respect, I'd be thinking about contingencies if I were in your shoes. Just in case :-) @ Cross On the topic of contingencies ... if GalLogi usage were to go up, GalScout usage would follow. The uparmored "Assault Lite" which would follow wouldn't be as potent as in the past, but it could still potentially pose utilization and efficiency problems. In the unlikely event that this happens, I'd recommend we respond immediately by increasing mobility penalties on plates (ferro included) when equipped by Scouts. GalLogi scans are still overpowered, IMO, but they'll help to deter Assault Lite from stacking straight plates on Scouts . If active scanner nerfs are in the cards, it may be a good idea to hold off on them until after dust settles from speed/hp. My two cents. o7 The wiggle dance is the problem not the suits. I have learned that some are using the new high jump ability to do the same thing. What we need to call for is a change to the aim assist setting, as it is the reason those two tactics work. The assist was to help you get from cover A to cover B and have the chance to wing the enemy. Maybe it is also why some suits can kill vehicles so easy as well. The best fix that I can think of is to have a War Point cap on the assist. This lets the new players get through the academy quickly, while also keeping veterans who abuse the tool from forcing out newer players. It will also return the game to the tactics based game it is supposed to be.
Sned TheDead Failures inc. 337	Posted - 2015.06.07 16:17:00 - [343] - Quote sneezes I have not been cleaning recently, better get back on that before the neighbours complain. Cleaning up the mess everyone leaves behind :)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4	Posted - 2015.06.07 19:56:00 - [344] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Cross On the topic of contingencies ... if GalLogi usage were to go up, GalScout usage would follow. The uparmored "Assault Lite" which would follow wouldn't be as potent as in the past, but it could still potentially pose utilization and efficiency problems. In the unlikely event that this happens, I'd recommend we respond immediately by increasing mobility penalties on plates (ferro included) when equipped by Scouts. GalLogi scans are still overpowered, IMO, but they'll help to deter Assault Lite from stacking straight plates on Scouts . If active scanner nerfs are in the cards, it may be a good idea to hold off on them until after dust settles from speed/hp. My two cents. o7 Well, in part we should see an increase in the use of frames across the logistics line, their flagging is an aspect of the need for a buff. However if one race shows more of an uptick than others that's something to keep an eye on no question. Further hedging things to make sure that "naked" logi (those who run without equipment) aren't a thing is important (there are various methods on the table for this none firmly decided). I'd also very heavily advocate that no nerfs be handed out to scouts or logistics - even if we see a disproportionate uptick in use - until after the assault is properly polished. We don't want to nerf two roles to be in line with the balance of a role that will still need buffs regardless that's just going to result in duplicating effort. Regarding ferro specifically we could also go the route of increased CPU/PG costs, because their entire design intent is to be the plates that don't hamper movement. I'd like to keep that design vision intact but they would absolutely need looked into and the opportunity cost addressed if they're shown to be over performing. I would still contest the notion that Active Scanner + Gal Logi is OP, because that to me is an oversimplification. There are certain fits which may very well provide too much tactical value but many of them do not provide a balanced risk vs reward potential even in the current state so classing them simply as over powered is inaccurate as far as I can tell. In either event they do need to be addressed on various fronts so that their utility is properly in line (if we have to nerf the active scanners themselves to bring Gal Logi + active scanner into a good place then so be it) and their earnings need to be correct (including team scans giving WPs). But ultimately I think that regardless of other changes the first priority before any others needs to remain the polish to the assaults. I wouldn't want anything else touched until then so we're not duplicating effort over the long term. efficiency in use of Dev time is pretty key for the overall progress of the game. 0.02 ISK CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.07 22:01:00 - [345] - Quote Sned TheDead wrote: sneezes I have not been cleaning recently, better get back on that before the neighbours complain. I can't smell the smell of your smell above the smell of all the lifeless clones at our place. I can't speak for the Heavies or the Anime people. Though I would watch out for the Heavies. They'll eat anything. Soylent Green is people is just a marketing slogan to them. Smell you later. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.08 09:39:00 - [346] - Quote True Adamance wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: It has to do with preferred racial doctrines from eve. Caldari = Siege warfare, they take a position and fortify it (with rep hives) and don't allow others to come near them they always have ammo and grenades to repel assaults. When you see 'hyper entrenched' positions in dust... it's always nanohive spam (with a helping of uplinks too). Minmatar = Skirmish warfare, they blitz and area kill everything, quickly rep up the 'wounded' and move on to the next area a mobile repair tool is what allows them to be everywhere. A logi can stick with a roving force and keep them up through multiple skirmishes with a rep tool. Gallente = Information warfare, the scanner outright gives them information allowing them to strike the right spots with flanks, feints and sudden attacks, a good scanner will also pick up scouts which allows denial of information. Scanner is all about information, more for you less for them. Amarr = Armored warfare, the amarr are all about breaking an enemies will and don't care so much about 'dying' because uplinks allow them to always bring in their slow moving but incredibly heavily armored sentinels / assaults / commando's right to the forefront of a fight steadily grinding their opponents down. Supply lines are incredibly important to armored warfare doctrines, and the amarr logi dramatically shortens supply lines of people. I've done much longer explanations of this concept before. Indeed it may do.......that being said..... Minmatar Logistics ships do not tend to repair armour do they? More over when I think guerilla warfare I think sabotage and IED's held together by twine and collective rebel willpower. Also just re-read this and noticed that I didnt answer your question. In eve the non-capital logistics ships are broken into two classes - Fleet logistics and 'solo' logistics. The Scimitar (minmatar) and Oneiros (gallente) are the 'solo' logi's, they're designed to be able to run three or four (cant remember) large shield (minmatar) or large armor (gallente) transfers while being capstable themselves, and they're also able to provide remote-tracking enhancers to allied ships (essentially making whatever they're boosting shoot farther, track better and hit more accurately). The Basilisk (caldari) and Guardian (amarr) are the fleet logis, and they're designed to to run four large shield (caldari) or large armor (amarr) transfers... and two large capacitor transfers each. Furthermore when they're skilled to level 5 logistics ships their capacitor transfer arrays actually generate more energy than they use, so these ships (at the most basic level) work in pairs where a single capacitor transfer from each will keep the other capstable and the remaining capacitor transfer can throw energy at bigger ships in the fleet, things that are getting energy neutralized, at another logistics ship with less SP investment or simply bounced back and forth between themselves to generate more energy on the logistics ship quickly. A great big 'chain' of logistics ships can generate unfathomable amounts of capacitor and rep values. The solo logistics ships require a bit more skill to pilot as you're not guaranteed to have another logi ship there helping you and they can make another ship significantly more deadly. The fleet logi's take less individual skill to pilot, but require a bit more coordination and cooler heads in the fleet. Solo logi's are a bit easier to jam out, whereas fleet logi's also tend to remote ECCM their partners, making them much more resistant to jamming. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Her Chosen Grade No.2 311	Posted - 2015.06.11 13:28:00 - [347] - Quote Latest upload Logi Discussion bi-polar Latest Upload
VAHZZ Corrosive Synergy No Context 2	Posted - 2015.06.12 03:02:00 - [348] - Quote Aiwha Bait wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I will be keepin irregular tabs on this thread, mostly for fun thourh Pshft. "mostly for fun". Lame. :P You should seriously look at some of our "fun". :P There have been some interesting suggestions that have been made known in this room. ;) Keep us for "fun", but just know that we are way cooler than the scouts over in The Barbershoppe ;) jerks thumb in the general direction of the BS ;) I mean, look at their abbreviation. :P It's BS because of the high amount of bullsht that goes through there. :P Clicked on blue tag to see what Rat Man had to say about this bunch of lol misfits, and i am appalled. THOSE BE FIGHTIN WORDS! If you seriously think all we do is bs around, you got another thing coming. "The humanoid cyclone stampede"* - Russel Mendoza All scouts, join the Scouts United chat.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.12 03:09:00 - [349] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: Latest upload Logi Discussion 8213, huh? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
sir RAVEN WING 3	Posted - 2015.06.12 10:18:00 - [350] - Quote -Begins using Callogi- Any tips guys? (Assume I have all mod skills to 0, EQ to 3, and Weapons to 5) Raven for CPM2 Shield buff, focus on balancing of weapons, and vehicles. New Content if possible + PS4 port.

I-Shayz-I I----------I 5	Posted - 2015.06.12 11:05:00 - [351] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: -Begins using Callogi- Any tips guys? (Assume I have all mod skills to 0, EQ to 3, and Weapons to 5) Uh Wait until the logi update? Using it now is almost impossible even at prototype, and the nanohive bonus only provides a noticeable difference at the higher levels. Not to mention you only have 3 equipment slots. Obviously run alloteks if you can afford them, and stick to being a deployable logi defending an area. If you skill for mobility/shields you're going to have a hard time due to the terrible CPU capacity...not to mention you can benefit from the armor repair bonus with your nanohives, so just tank the suit 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.06.15 20:38:00 - [352] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: [ [...]I would still contest the notion that Active Scanner + Gal Logi is OP, because that to me is an oversimplification. There are certain fits which may very well provide too much tactical value but many of them do not provide a balanced risk vs reward potential even in the current state so classing them simply as over powered is inaccurate as far as I can tell. [...] I liked the idea floating around that each type of equipment can be fit only a single time (like the cloak). If the Gal Logi can only have 1 focused scanner, than I firmly believe that it's balanced, even with all the buffs coming down the pipeline for logis. This is what I believe. Having a single Gal Logi with 3 focused scanners and the spin scan glitch is frustrating. Quote: [...] Further hedging things to make sure that "naked" logi (those who run without equipment) aren't a thing is important (there are various methods on the table for this none firmly decided). [...] On this subject, I really DON'T like the idea of forcing the logi (or anyone) to fill all equipment slots. If there is any alternative, it must be better than that. These two points are tied together closely, I don't believe all equipment slots MUST BE FILLED for a fit to be legal, but I also feel a limit on one equipment per type is a reasonable thing to suggest. Know what cannot be known.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.19 15:41:00 - [353] - Quote Reviving to front page. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5	Posted - 2015.06.19 15:43:00 - [354] - Quote I wrote an article awhile back about the NDA, figured it was time to share it a little more widely. It's here for those interested. CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.19 15:53:00 - [355] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: -Begins using Callogi- Any tips guys? (Assume I have all mod skills to 0, EQ to 3, and Weapons to 5) Get nanocircuitry to 5. and get the logi to at least level 3 (5 is better though as equipment eats up your limited fitting). Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5	Posted - 2015.06.19 15:57:00 - [356] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: -Begins using Callogi- Any tips guys? (Assume I have all mod skills to 0, EQ to 3, and Weapons to 5) Get nanocircuitry to 5. and get the logi to at least level 3 (5 is better though as equipment eats up your limited fitting). ^Agreed. CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.19 16:15:00 - [357] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I wrote an article awhile back about the NDA, figured it was time to share it a little more widely. It's here for those interested. A well written article, Cross. Kudos o7 Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
sir RAVEN WING 3	Posted - 2015.06.19 20:59:00 - [358] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: -Begins using Callogi- Any tips guys? (Assume I have all mod skills to 0, EQ to 3, and Weapons to 5) Get nanocircuitry to 5. and get the logi to at least level 3 (5 is better though as equipment eats up your limited fitting). ^Agreed. Thanks, I have it to 3, so cross that off. Nanocircuitry is at 4 so it should be too hard. Raven for CPM2 Shield buff, focus on balancing of weapons, and vehicles. New Content if possible + PS4 port.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5	Posted - 2015.06.22 07:06:00 - [359] - Quote It's a heavy SP cost (relatively speaking) but I took mine all the way to 5, the extra slack it gives on CPU/PG is a real boon to the Cal. CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
Booby Tuesdays Bad Mother Thukkers 1	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:09:00 - [360] - Quote Logi speed increase went through? \o/ Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8



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