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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Hellstorm Inc
General Tso's Alliance
800
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Posted - 2015.04.29 22:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Luther Mandrix wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Cross Atu wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Regarding the new payout possibilities of x% gear personally lost and y% gear personally destroyed:
So a logi following a sentinel would not only prevent that Sentinel from dying faster (or losing his gear if he were revived), but also help him destroy more gear because of his increased ability to stay in a fight and kill, but wouldn't share in the spoils of that system?
With these new changes in (if they are added) I see more reason for slayers to "go hard" in matches even ones where they aren't ahead. More reason for support and slayers to stick in the fight even when taking heavy losses. No further reason for complaints that non-support roles "aren't rewarded enough". By rewarding just the winners however, what incentive does that give for people obviously on the losing end to continue making sacrifices and pulling out something other than BPOs and low level gear? I like the intentions of it, but I, for example, already use low level gear and BPOs. I think my highest meta of my suits is 27, with 20 to 24 being the bulk. And I pretty much break even in terms of ISK, despite not making signficant ISK sacrifices. This might give me incentive to switch to proto if my team is up by a wide enough margin, but the opposite will happen if I am on the other side. And my suits don't even cost as much as a Logi's, which I recognize is the biggest ISK investment aside from proto vehicles. I hope there is something I am missing, which often happens, and it all works out. I am just concerned the incentives are such that the sum of the behaviors it rewards are going to be more negative for game play as a whole. I think you are on the mark with this one,When some afk guy on the winning side gets more everything than the guys fighting on the losing side something has to change besides giving the afk guy a minimal wp to make.
Yep. In a battle that clearly will become a loss I will switch to BPO. So, I'm with both of you on this. It sounds nice, but it doesn't encourage full on battle when disparity in recouping lost assets will be to great to overcome with one or two BPO battles. AND really I gotta tell ya, I lose 70-80% of the battles I'm a part of when just soloing... So, I'm BPO alot right now, even with the adjustments to pub battle matching metrics.
I wish it was better. When I run with a squad I can usually see a 60/40 or even a 50/50... but I am still hesitant about the idea.
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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RedBleach LeSanglant
Hellstorm Inc
General Tso's Alliance
804
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Posted - 2015.05.01 22:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:shaman oga wrote:X and Y are just a bonus, lots of WP would pay anyway.
Btw, it's hard for a machine to tell if a player use slaying roles or support roles, if he's doing good or not.
Both the team should have a bonus for X and Y, higher for winning team and lower for losing team. Interesting notion, having both X and Y awarded regardless of the win but having the win define the magnitude of X and Y would at least mitigate the snowball effect. Also worth noting is that X and Y do not have to be the same raw % value so the losing side could get a bit of consideration with regards to the X% loss value that's being assessed for them. Fake example numbers:Winning team gets 30% gear losses & 30% kills added to their (already higher) payout.
Losing team gets 25% gear losses % 20% kills added to their payout.
In this case the X% from personal losses is valuable to both the slayers and support roles because if you're behind in a battle you're generally more likely to lose the fits you deploy in (as I'm sure we've all seen). Even with the new system applied to both winners and losers of the battle it's not going to guarantee everyone is profitable, and it shouldn't or we lose the meaning of economic value, but what it would do is a slayer who's going 21/5 on the losing side is a lot more likely to break even or make a profit (fighting hard incentivized) and a support role who's doing a lot of work is also more likely to break even or at least come close with the combination of high WP earnings and X% personal losses refunded. Both of those presume the player in question is actively fulfilling their role so afk type behavior (i.e. non-participation) wouldn't reap additional benefits. Further thoughts?
Honestly I would just like to make some isk. Running free suits for hours sucks and runing Pro a few times during the play means that what profit I make is usually eaten up restocking those fittings. I've been floating in a 10million buffer for almost 8 months that I just cant seem to get out of. (could be a problem of a dead corp and needing better team mates)
Sure I could run only BPO for the next year... but there has to be a way to make it fun and make some isk. I want profit. Enough so that I can run and lose a proto fit 2 times a match and still come out ahead, or just run a majority of ADV fits. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but I just feel ISK trapped.
However this works out, I want the money. For there to be a real payout. Maybe what I want is only available in future PC settings. But somethings gotta change.
IF this change took place I could still do my normal thing and make a profit it sounds like.
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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RedBleach LeSanglant
Hellstorm Inc
General Tso's Alliance
805
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Posted - 2015.05.02 19:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ratatti,
I know you'll pop by eventually. I just wanted to thank you for the round table at fanfest and the biomassed episode you did last week. I am excited for the upcoming logi work, I appreciate your efforts and the great amount of communication. Also a shoutout to Cross Atu, SMB, all the logis that have been pushing for a change and waiting for quite some time. Our time is NEAR!.... (Soon TM :)
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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RedBleach LeSanglant
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
815
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Posted - 2015.05.16 02:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
If Any of you play with the Apex suits and have been entertained by the idea of Slot Progression Flattening I have made a small thread that seeks to question the fate of the Apex suit and what may be done in the future.
Apex Suits and Slot Progression
Solid posts that I suggest you check out:
Power Cores and Slot Progression
Speed to HP ratios
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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RedBleach LeSanglant
Molon Labe.
RUST415
836
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Posted - 2015.05.30 21:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
can't seem to vote... just see results... I'm am sad
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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RedBleach LeSanglant
0.P.
865
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Posted - 2015.07.17 03:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
I caution the user who would spec into Cal Logi. Shields being what they are (weak) the suit has noticeably less staying power than any of the other suits. (translation - die more often).
In my experience a team multiplier will be a Minmatar, Gallente, Amarr, then Cal... like what has been said.
The Minmatar has a bit better speed and the repping bonus is magnificent.
The Gallente still has 4EQ, like the Minmatar, and is a bit slower but is definitely more tanky in the armor department.
The Amarr with only 3 slots is still better in my opinion than the Cal Logi. Amarr can both support and fight back a bit better than the other logis. and can be the only AV logi or specialize in an odd weapon because the side arm can still offer a bit of killing power when needed.
The Cal, suffers in HP, and has trouble staying with the group when a few stray shots can quickly put him into his weak armor HP because nearly everything eats up shields very quickly. Another drawback is the limitation of the Bonus and deployable EQ. The necessity to return to supply depots is annoying - if you live that long - and as the team is moving and the Hives don't. Once deployed they eat up major bandwidth unless they are fully used up, that also means you are popping them as you lay down others so the healing stations set up earlier can disappear immediately.
I've been playing each logi for quite some time, and the Cal logi is always the one that gives me the most difficulty, still. Creating a fit that will both use the bonus, survive, and bring all the other logi tools to the field isn't easy as even when I feel that the fit is maxed out it is still super squishy. That said most of my experimenting is at STD and ADV levels. My Pro Cal suits still feel like they die more often than my other logi builds at Pro level, but that is how it feels to me.
Others seem to profess greater success than I, though our loadouts are very similar. It perhaps is just my playstyle that has yet to adapt to the Cal Logi...
Well mastering 3/4 isn't bad ;)
Good luck, and the massdriver works well in any team driven play unless friendly fire is on. Solo play I wouldn't suggest it, but it has its moments. Still, it can clear explosives and scouts in cqc pretty well. But lining up a medium or long distance shot is tricky, and if there is overhead cover it is better just to back away.
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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RedBleach LeSanglant
0.P.
866
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Posted - 2015.07.17 19:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:I haven't had a lot of success running a triage hive cal logi (both triage and alloteks in one fitting instead of a repair tool)
The biggest issue is that the hives eat up so much fitting space that you are forced to reduce the effectiveness of your shield tank.
Either you run more armor instead of a regulator, or you run more shields instead of a precision mod.
I think that if you use a nanohive setup, you need to completely tank armor. The only other way to fit a Cal Logi effectively IMO is to run it like a recon scanner logi.
Precision mod, dampener, range amp (or two) and/or regulator with the rest complex extenders.
You don't fight the enemy, you just provide scans, spawns, and an 80% pick me up. Probably won't get you a lot of points, but your slayers will love the extra eyes.
True, though it is nice to have it in true logi fashion with 4EQ. While the Slot count originally seemed advantageous the fitting limitations left it wanting. Now the fitting limits have been raised but one low slot removed and put to EQ... so, it is still a lack luster logi that has trouble with HP and its bonus, but running it more like a scout recon outfit is something to try....
I'll give it a shot, but it is hard for me to run it that way as I like to be in the fray with the team with all my basic tools. Working on the fringe of battle is not my style... but I'll check it out.
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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RedBleach LeSanglant
0.P.
871
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Posted - 2015.07.21 22:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Booby Tuesdays wrote:... It seems so strange to me that the one true OG 'Slayer Logi' was the Cal, back in Uprising 1.0. Now that it has been proven that the 'Warlords 1.2: Return of the Slayer Logi' (directed by Aeon Amandi) was proven to be false, it makes me wonder; what is still making the Cal Logi the weaker choice? It can't just be the loss of a bonus to shield extenders? Could it be that simple? Even stranger is the fact that the Cal Logi has an over 1.0 KD/R advantage over its Logi brethren. Is this due to it still actually functioning well as a solo semi-slayer suit? I think it may be due to the smaller amount of players running it. They know the suits limitations quite well, and as a result die much less. ... 
If I'm not mistaken The numbers from that KDR announcement were over the whole history of Dust514, and are therefore not an accurate depiction of the current state of the CAL Logi. But during the time that they were the killing bees with the shield bonus they were formidable. Now, I believe we have people that are still spec'ed into it, and with its many highs it can still be an efficient killing machine from AFAR. Close up it sucks. But as a Sniper or another Rail Rifle user that picks off the weak, or even bricked the Slot versatility swayed the data.
I would like to see data from only the last quarter, maybe 6 months. Then I believe we would have more to discuss about the "why" of the situation IFF the KDR numbers still held true. But as it is from the beginning of the public release I believe they have little weight for making a suit decision - as far as the logis go.
PLUS
I'm a little pissed that I can't find Logi progression in the Suit progression choices. AM I just missing it somewhere? can someone else confirm whether or not it is there please?
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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RedBleach LeSanglant
0.P.
874
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Posted - 2015.07.23 21:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:... It seems so strange to me that the one true OG 'Slayer Logi' was the Cal, back in Uprising 1.0. Now that it has been proven that the 'Warlords 1.2: Return of the Slayer Logi' (directed by Aeon Amandi) was proven to be false, it makes me wonder; what is still making the Cal Logi the weaker choice? It can't just be the loss of a bonus to shield extenders? Could it be that simple? Even stranger is the fact that the Cal Logi has an over 1.0 KD/R advantage over its Logi brethren. Is this due to it still actually functioning well as a solo semi-slayer suit? I think it may be due to the smaller amount of players running it. They know the suits limitations quite well, and as a result die much less. ... If I'm not mistaken The numbers from that KDR announcement were over the whole history of Dust514, and are therefore not an accurate depiction of the current state of the CAL Logi. But during the time that they were the killing bees with the shield bonus they were formidable. Now, I believe we have people that are still spec'ed into it, and with its many highs it can still be an efficient killing machine from AFAR. Close up it sucks. But as a Sniper or another Rail Rifle user that picks off the weak, or even bricked the Slot versatility swayed the data. I would like to see data from only the last quarter, maybe 6 months. Then I believe we would have more to discuss about the "why" of the situation IFF the KDR numbers still held true. But as it is from the beginning of the public release I believe they have little weight for making a suit decision - as far as the logis go. PLUS I'm a little pissed that I can't find Logi progression in the Suit progression choices. AM I just missing it somewhere? can someone else confirm whether or not it is there please? I think the number were pulled over a 30 day period, since that was the most fair. At least, the numbers that showed the AmSent overperforming were from 30 days rather than life time.
Wow, I guess there is something to talk about if that is true... My understanding was that is was life since release.... I'll dig around for it.
And thank you for commenting about the Logi progression stuff - I missed that.
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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