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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2694	Posted - 2014.09.24 17:27:00 - [1] - Quote After flying a few matches in Delta, I've returned with a decent speculation and data on the ADS, and what went horribly wrong with it. My first match I played on the twin towers map. I called her in about 1/4 of the way through the match, got six kills, then came three mexicans (they were in a Latino corp) with AV to camp on said towers. two of them were forges, bad ones at that, one was a swarmer. There was also a rammer after me, but he failed miserably. After they had set up camping on the towers I was completely useless. They managed to shoot me down once, but I, being the yolfswag guy I am, called in a second one, only to be forced back to the red by the rammer, whom I shot down. And even with being rendered completely useless because of over AV, I still got hate mail (score one for weakened pilots baby)! Anyway, second match I played infinitely more cautious. I even used my pilot suit (rail rifle and two range amps works wonders). dropped 16-0 despite being hounded by militia swarms wherever I turned, which is not to say we're still OP. The swarmers were poorly positioned, I also had buildings to hide behind, add to the fact that they were militia kind of helped, even though they were spaced no less than 20 meters from each other at one point. Anyway, my review: 1) I did not see any reduction to PG/CPU or price of small turrets, and I checked. 2) The python bonus, as I predicted, is complete and utter crap, the incubus can hold more tank and even fit a better AB than the python, and all I have to sacrifice for it is a little ROF (.18 ROF, to be exact). 3) nerfing the ROF on incubus by that much, also useless. and there was also a heat increase, only 7 shots were able to come out when I used it, and it overheated. 4) I will say that AB cooldown is not as bad as I predicted, it's still pretty bad though. 5) due to the increase of acceleration and speed of swarms, ducking behind a building is pretty useless, even with the homing nerf, I can probably get maybe two to hit the side of a building if I'm lucky. Anyway, that's the review. And like I, and the rest of the pilot community predicted, way overdone. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3129	Posted - 2014.09.24 17:45:00 - [2] - Quote Heat increase? Dear God why? As far as only being able to get two swarms to kill themselves it's a nerf to give you a chance, not automatically make using buildings instantly successful. I'm glad that they are working to reduce the incoming fire. Your point about pythons and incubi being differently tanked is a bit misleading. Even though you can fit more HP on the Incubus, both ADS still require the same number of shots to terminate. In my case, that's three shots for both vehicles. I have found no exceptions to this rule.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2695	Posted - 2014.09.24 17:50:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Heat increase? Dear God why? As far as only being able to get two swarms to kill themselves it's a nerf to give you a chance, not automatically make using buildings instantly successful. I'm glad that they are working to reduce the incoming fire. Your point about pythons and incubi being differently tanked is a bit misleading. Even though you can fit more HP on the Incubus, both ADS still require the same number of shots to terminate. In my case, that's three shots for both vehicles. I have found no exceptions to this rule. My mistake, as I had also forgotten to mention the insant reps. All I need do is duck behind a building for about 8 seconds, and I'm good to take on more punishment, especially seeing as the skill vehicle shield regeneration also applies to armor vehicles (yes they're much more useful on shield vehicles, but the armor type vehicles shields are good enough to tank one swarm shot). The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 31	Posted - 2014.09.24 18:02:00 - [4] - Quote Derrith can I have your input on something, please? I want to get this idea to gain in popularity: Scrubbing swarms. Let's say there was a way to make swarms lose tracking through a scrubbing motion or by making them bend beyond their ability to turn. How do you feel about the idea and how could we go about balancing it? I find it boring when I am forced to sit out for 45 seconds waiting for my hardners to come back before getting back into the fight, only the be instantly chased away again by the same swarmer that I cannot find. If instead I was able to scrub the missiles I would actually be doing something other then sitting and waiting to re-engage.
Dergle Kiith Sobani 36	Posted - 2014.09.24 18:11:00 - [5] - Quote Thank you Derrith, you always have elaborate reviews for ADS and I appreciate you putting in the time and effort. As usual I agree with most everything you've said. The python skill is useless and now I'd much rather fly the inc with a missile, which makes me sad :( DUST is not a democracy! Ain't nobody want to hear your problems, Everyone got problems.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 333	Posted - 2014.09.24 18:15:00 - [6] - Quote The heat increase is because its heat build up per second and not per shot. That means small rails will overheat faster due to the slower rate of fire. Rattati has beeing warned about it but choosed to ignore. If i recall correctly some 1 advised him to lower the heat build it in exchange of the lower rate of fire so that the same amount of rounds could be fired. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2695	Posted - 2014.09.24 18:22:00 - [7] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Derrith can I have your input on something, please? I want to get this idea to gain in popularity: Scrubbing swarms. Let's say there was a way to make swarms lose tracking through a scrubbing motion or by making them bend beyond their ability to turn. How do you feel about the idea and how could we go about balancing it? I find it boring when I am forced to sit out for 45 seconds waiting for my hardners to come back before getting back into the fight, only the be instantly chased away again by the same swarmer that I cannot find. If instead I was able to scrub the missiles I would actually be doing something other then sitting and waiting to re-engage. You mean techniques to make swarms go off target? Perhaps, but I honestly don't know how you'd go about this, so I'm afraid I cannot any decent insight. I do enjoy the idea however, would give us more to do than duck behind a building and hope for the best. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 676	Posted - 2014.09.24 18:41:00 - [8] - Quote Did you run into any CalSentinel forgers? If so how did that go? I imagine not well since you won't be able to fire fast enough to actually harm them.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4692	Posted - 2014.09.24 18:41:00 - [9] - Quote I literally dropped 3.5 mil SP into Pythons and Missiles 10 minutes after downtime when we got the SP on my alt character. Pretty excited about that. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 803	Posted - 2014.09.24 18:43:00 - [10] - Quote There was no heat increase in the small railgun, but nerfing ROF means less show are fired in the same time: railgun turrets are heat build up over second, not per shot. The Python is pretty bad, but still useable. The lower ROF basically makes the hit and run notion laughable. The Incubus is utterly shafted. 7 shots before overheat is petty awful: I managed to kill a Madrugar because he was a terrible pilot, but dropships are now immune to dogfighting (because of the speed of the engagements and manoeuvring), HAVs are unconcerned provided they don't just sit perfectly still and make no attempts to evade; and LAVs have always been immune if the driver has a brain cell. Alt of Halla Murr.

ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 171	Posted - 2014.09.24 18:44:00 - [11] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: The heat increase is because its heat build up per second and not per shot. That means small rails will overheat faster due to the slower rate of fire. Rattati has beeing warned about it but choosed to ignore. If i recall correctly some 1 advised him to lower the heat build it in exchange of the lower rate of fire so that the same amount of rounds could be fired. Damn ccps shortcuts!
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 31	Posted - 2014.09.24 18:44:00 - [12] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: You mean techniques to make swarms go off target? Perhaps, but I honestly don't know how you'd go about this, so I'm afraid I cannot any decent insight. I do enjoy the idea however, would give us more to do than duck behind a building and hope for the best. What if swarms were actually stronger but they could only turn X amount of degrees total (from launched position) before they could no longer turn and fly off straight? It would mean higher requirement from swarm launcher and give the DS pilot something to do other then slam the ceiling, or duck and wait. If it were just me, I would also add a warning beep for the DS pilot when the swarms are 100 meters away. (100 meters is just for argument's sake, I just mean a short distance, not launch distance. I specifically would NOT want the beep to occur at any lock range, but rather 3 seconds before imminent impact).
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2700	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:02:00 - [13] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: You mean techniques to make swarms go off target? Perhaps, but I honestly don't know how you'd go about this, so I'm afraid I cannot any decent insight. I do enjoy the idea however, would give us more to do than duck behind a building and hope for the best. What if swarms were actually stronger but they could only turn X amount of degrees total (from launched position) before they could no longer turn and fly off straight? It would mean higher requirement from swarm launcher and give the DS pilot something to do other then slam the ceiling, or duck and wait. If it were just me, I would also add a warning beep for the DS pilot when the swarms are 100 meters away. (100 meters is just for argument's sake, I just mean a short distance, not launch distance. I specifically would NOT want the beep to occur at any lock range, but rather 3 seconds before imminent impact). I like the warning idea, but I'd rather just tank the swarm shots as they are now instead of having to do some weird yoda crap to avoid it. It's not that I don't like the idea, using agility techniques to shake off swarms is an excellent proposition, but currently swarms are painful, I don't like pain. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2700	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:08:00 - [14] - Quote Dust User wrote: Did you run into any CalSentinel forgers? If so how did that go? I imagine not well since you won't be able to fire fast enough to actually harm them. I may have, but I was too busy frantically ducking around corners trying to find those swarmers to notice. If I do, I'll tell you. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:12:00 - [15] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: I like the warning idea, but I'd rather just tank the swarm shots as they are now instead of having to do some weird yoda crap to avoid it. It's not that I don't like the idea, using agility techniques to shake off swarms is an excellent proposition, but currently swarms are painful, I don't like pain. I really appreciate your input man. I am hoping to get people in favor of a more proactive defensive solution for dropships, even if it's NOT the idea I proposed. Sitting and waiting < Fighting to survive.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3594	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:14:00 - [16] - Quote If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:20:00 - [17] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. Why are you so antagonistic?
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1578	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:20:00 - [18] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. ...this speaks more to your abilities, not ADS balance.. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4698	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:21:00 - [19] - Quote But Derrith is a beast on the ground too. Should we nerf all the stuff he uses because you can't reproduce his results? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3594	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:27:00 - [20] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: But Derrith is a beast on the ground too. Should we nerf all the stuff he uses because you can't reproduce his results? Realistically, nerfs and buffs are based on game-wide statistics. Not Derrith's usage. I would maybe follow around Derrith with a nerfbat, but CCP Rattati wouldn't. He likes numbers. :) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2701	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:29:00 - [21] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: But Derrith is a beast on the ground too. Should we nerf all the stuff he uses because you can't reproduce his results? That's a giant load of crap! I'm complete garbage on the ground. Oh and Kaeru and Resistance, I honestly wouldn't dignify Soraya with a response. Just ignore him, he has the bias against ADS that I had against swarmers (still kind of do, not as bad though). The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3595	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:36:00 - [22] - Quote Really don't have a particular bias against the ADS, I actually argued against them removing it when they removed most of the other variants. But it was also really really OP by the numbers. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 803	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:44:00 - [23] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. ...this speaks more to your abilities, not ADS balance.. Definitely. Went 37/1 in the last week or so (can't remember when exactly) in a STD CalSent with STD HMG, but that apparently isn't OP, even though it cost 13k ISK. There is no substitute for skill (not SP; actual skill.) Alt of Halla Murr.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4700	Posted - 2014.09.24 20:06:00 - [24] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. ...this speaks more to your abilities, not ADS balance.. Definitely. Went 37/1 in the last week or so (can't remember when exactly) in a STD CalSent with STD HMG, but that apparently isn't OP, even though it cost 13k ISK. *There is no substitute for skill (not SP; actual skill.) This is true, I have lots of SP and very little skill. Level 4 Forum Warrior* PSN: wbrom42
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 983	Posted - 2014.09.24 20:57:00 - [25] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: 5) due to the increase of acceleration and speed of swarms, ducking behind a building is pretty useless, even with the homing nerf, I can probably get maybe two to hit the side of a building if I'm lucky. ... Totally called it!!! What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
a brackers Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 74	Posted - 2014.09.24 23:58:00 - [26] - Quote What I got from a few matches: charlie python (worked well against a bad tank. Both survived against a good tank. Died to rail snipe tanks or rail instilarions I once went within 75m of- damn those things need to forget once in out of 75m and never shot at it. Against normal infantry I'm op, although they quickly swap to any form of av and have a 70 % chance of driving me off, overall 50% chance I kill the single guy, 40% he kills me. 10% we then avoid each other. More then 1 av and I'm almost granted to lose the ship. Ramming ds about 40 60 in favor of him hitting me and both of us dying) Delta pytgon (almost all tanks survive. They now have no fear of me at all as their shields recharge faster than I'm hitting. I can no longer strafe as I don't have the rof to kill anyone. Therefore I'm stationary when the swarms hit -which I couldn't see coming- I have about a 10 % chance of killing swarmer while running away, 80% chance of him killing me and 10% I escape and recall. One swarmer shouldn't do that. Also im getting about a fifth the kills as there is enough cover almost all infantry can get safe before I kill themhat I got from a few matches: Proto dropship pilot The sandbox shooter

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7941	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:05:00 - [27] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: After flying a few matches in Delta, I've returned with a decent speculation and data on the ADS, and what went horribly wrong with it. My first match I played on the twin towers map. I called her in about 1/4 of the way through the match, got six kills, then came three mexicans (they were in a Latino corp) with AV to camp on said towers. two of them were forges, bad ones at that, one was a swarmer. There was also a rammer after me, but he failed miserably. After they had set up camping on the towers I was completely useless. They managed to shoot me down once, but I, being the yolfswag guy I am, called in a second one, only to be forced back to the red by the rammer, whom I shot down. And even with being rendered completely useless because of over AV, I still got hate mail (score one for weakened pilots baby)! Anyway, second match I played infinitely more cautious. I even used my pilot suit (rail rifle and two range amps works wonders). dropped 16-0 despite being hounded by militia swarms wherever I turned, which is not to say we're still OP. The swarmers were poorly positioned, I also had buildings to hide behind, add to the fact that they were militia kind of helped, even though they were spaced no less than 20 meters from each other at one point. Anyway, my review: 1) I did not see any reduction to PG/CPU or price of small turrets, and I checked. 2) The python bonus, as I predicted, is complete and utter crap, the incubus can hold more tank and even fit a better AB than the python, and all I have to sacrifice for it is a little ROF (.18 ROF, to be exact). 3) nerfing the ROF on incubus by that much, also useless. and there was also a heat increase, only 7 shots were able to come out when I used it, and it overheated. 4) I will say that AB cooldown is not as bad as I predicted, it's still pretty bad though. 5) due to the increase of acceleration and speed of swarms, ducking behind a building is pretty useless, even with the homing nerf, I can probably get maybe two to hit the side of a building if I'm lucky. Anyway, that's the review. Excellent, thank you. I suggest you start a thread and we can sticky it for simple tweaks, like ROF, heat build up, to get some easy wins back for the ADS. We will check the missing PG/CPU reduction "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7941	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:06:00 - [28] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. ...this speaks more to your abilities, not ADS balance.. Definitely. Went 37/1 in the last week or so (can't remember when exactly) in a STD CalSent with STD HMG, but that apparently isn't OP, even though it cost 13k ISK. There is no substitute for skill (not SP; actual skill.) Was it theoretically possible to kill the CalSent? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 820	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:10:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. ...this speaks more to your abilities, not ADS balance.. Definitely. Went 37/1 in the last week or so (can't remember when exactly) in a STD CalSent with STD HMG, but that apparently isn't OP, even though it cost 13k ISK. There is no substitute for skill (not SP; actual skill.) Was it theoretically possible to kill the CalSent? Indeed, exactly how it is theoretically possible to kill an ADS. Alt of Halla Murr.
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH 157	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:32:00 - [30] - Quote Bumped on Dropship Discussion from earlier. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos

Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2702	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:35:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: After flying a few matches in Delta, I've returned with a decent speculation and data on the ADS, and what went horribly wrong with it. My first match I played on the twin towers map. I called her in about 1/4 of the way through the match, got six kills, then came three mexicans (they were in a Latino corp) with AV to camp on said towers. two of them were forges, bad ones at that, one was a swarmer. There was also a rammer after me, but he failed miserably. After they had set up camping on the towers I was completely useless. They managed to shoot me down once, but I, being the yolfswag guy I am, called in a second one, only to be forced back to the red by the rammer, whom I shot down. And even with being rendered completely useless because of over AV, I still got hate mail (score one for weakened pilots baby)! Anyway, second match I played infinitely more cautious. I even used my pilot suit (rail rifle and two range amps works wonders). dropped 16-0 despite being hounded by militia swarms wherever I turned, which is not to say we're still OP. The swarmers were poorly positioned, I also had buildings to hide behind, add to the fact that they were militia kind of helped, even though they were spaced no less than 20 meters from each other at one point. Anyway, my review: 1) I did not see any reduction to PG/CPU or price of small turrets, and I checked. 2) The python bonus, as I predicted, is complete and utter crap, the incubus can hold more tank and even fit a better AB than the python, and all I have to sacrifice for it is a little ROF (.18 ROF, to be exact). 3) nerfing the ROF on incubus by that much, also useless. and there was also a heat increase, only 7 shots were able to come out when I used it, and it overheated. 4) I will say that AB cooldown is not as bad as I predicted, it's still pretty bad though. 5) due to the increase of acceleration and speed of swarms, ducking behind a building is pretty useless, even with the homing nerf, I can probably get maybe two to hit the side of a building if I'm lucky. Anyway, that's the review. Excellent, thank you. I suggest you start a thread and we can sticky it for simple tweaks, like ROF, heat build up, to get some easy wins back for the ADS. We will check the missing PG/CPU reduction Ummmm, what should I name it? The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 23	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:59:00 - [32] - Quote My observation after flying a few matche, any more than one swarm launcher and you can almost never escape. I've lost nearly every python ive flown unless I was in a city and could duck. Also fire rate Nerf makes it extremely hard to kill a decent forge gunner. Needless to say the unique aspect of the dropship is what drew me to this game and it feels totally broken. I flew in pc to make isk and it seems I probably won't be needed as much.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 23	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:02:00 - [33] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. I can go 32/0 on a good day with basic. Your skill shouldn't be taken into account when balancing hard numbers.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1582	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:03:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. ...this speaks more to your abilities, not ADS balance.. Definitely. Went 37/1 in the last week or so (can't remember when exactly) in a STD CalSent with STD HMG, but that apparently isn't OP, even though it cost 13k ISK. There is no substitute for skill (not SP; actual skill.) Was it theoretically possible to kill the CalSent? Dangerous statement.. Now they're a bit more difficult to kill. I wish we could see your data you use, but, as with everything involving CCP, its hidden behind a veil.. Could be actual data, could be a doodle of a fish. Still strange Judge isn't around during this. Convenient timing. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3643	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:13:00 - [35] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Still strange Judge isn't around during this. Convenient timing. It'd be really nice if he was here. I usually don't agree with him, but he has a lot of logic to his arguments, and I think he would really raise the bar on the ADS side of the debate if he were around. Because a lot of the statements are anecdotal, which isn't useful. Judge is really great at testing and crunching the numbers. And having him around would really centralize the debate on the facts. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 820	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:19:00 - [36] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Still strange Judge isn't around during this. Convenient timing. It'd be really nice if he was here. I usually don't agree with him, but he has a lot of logic to his arguments, and I think he would really raise the bar on the ADS side of the debate if he were around. Because a lot of the statements are anecdotal, which isn't useful. Judge is really great at testing and crunching the numbers. And having him around would really centralize the debate on the facts. Ive put up loads of numbers on the small railgun... Though I dunno how useful that actually has been Alt of Halla Murr.
Deathlord Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 24	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:19:00 - [37] - Quote are you sure it is only 7 rail shots? I have lvl 3 and I can get 7 off
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1585	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:20:00 - [38] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Still strange Judge isn't around during this. Convenient timing. It'd be really nice if he was here. I usually don't agree with him, but he has a lot of logic to his arguments, and I think he would really raise the bar on the ADS side of the debate if he were around. Because a lot of the statements are anecdotal, which isn't useful. Judge is really great at testing and crunching the numbers. And having him around would really centralize the debate on the facts. Then you should have brought this to the community at least so we could debate. Numbers are great, but real world use is where its at. Have you flown a Level 5 Python? Have you seen the minimal difference? Have you seen the 7 shots an Incubus can get off before overheating? This was a half-assed decision if I've ever seen one. Deathlord Diego wrote: are you sure it is only 7 rail shots? I have lvl 3 and I can get 7 off That's because the skill does almost nothing now. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 822	Posted - 2014.09.25 02:17:00 - [39] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Deathlord Diego wrote: are you sure it is only 7 rail shots? I have lvl 3 and I can get 7 off That's because the skill does almost nothing now. Indeed, as Resistance says, the new ROF 'bonus' (charitable to call it a bonus for 2.48m SP)is terrible. Railgun ROF is 92; or 1.53 shots per second; 8 shots and overheats in 5.2 seconds; 668 DPS Incubus 5 ROF is 105.8; or 1.808 shots per second; 9 shots and overheats in 4.98 seconds; 781.9 DPS That actually doesn't look that bad, but something is wrong with how its actually playing: were only getting 7 shots. Fiddling with some numbers I think that the small railguns are firing correctly, but the Incubus skill is applying incorrectly. It appears that the Incubus skill is applying inversely: the fire interval is 0.65 (60++0.65=92.3, the correct ROF as per patch notes) and with a 15% increase to ROF it should be firing at 0.5525 which is 0.65+ù0.85=0.5525 but is actually firing at 0.7475 which is the result of 0.65+ù1.15=0.7475 which would actually be a decrease in ROF. With 0.5525 (ROF 108.5) we'd have 1.808 shots per second; 9 shots in 4.98 seconds; 781.9 DPS, which would be decent What we currently have is 0.7475 (ROF 80.3) or 1.34 shots per second; 7 shots in 5.2 seconds; 607.8 DPS. TL;DR: Incubus ROF is bugged and applying at a 1.15 ratio instead of a 0.85, meaning the Incubus's railgun is firing slower than the regular railgun Alt of Halla Murr.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3648	Posted - 2014.09.25 02:55:00 - [40] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Then you should have brought this to the community at least so we could debate. Numbers are great, but real world use is where its at. CCP Rattati didn't run it by us, I don't think. I think if he did, I'd remember it. Or I'm absent-minded, also possible. Kallas Hallytyr wrote: TL;DR: Incubus ROF is bugged and applying at a 1.15 ratio instead of a 0.85, meaning the Incubus's railgun is firing slower than the regular railgun This sounds like a testable bug. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7950	Posted - 2014.09.25 02:58:00 - [41] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Then you should have brought this to the community at least so we could debate. Numbers are great, but real world use is where its at. CCP Rattati didn't run it by us, I don't think. I think if he did, I'd remember it. Or I'm absent-minded, also possible. That is true, I didn't. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2371528#post2371528 "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7950	Posted - 2014.09.25 03:02:00 - [42] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Deathlord Diego wrote: are you sure it is only 7 rail shots? I have lvl 3 and I can get 7 off That's because the skill does almost nothing now. Indeed, as Resistance says, the new ROF 'bonus' (charitable to call it a bonus for 2.48m SP)is terrible. Railgun ROF is 92; or 1.53 shots per second; 8 shots and overheats in 5.2 seconds; 668 DPS Incubus 5 ROF is 105.8; or 1.808 shots per second; 9 shots and overheats in 4.98 seconds; 781.9 DPS That actually doesn't look that bad, but something is wrong with how its actually playing: were only getting 7 shots. Fiddling with some numbers I think that the small railguns are firing correctly, but the Incubus skill is applying incorrectly. It appears that the Incubus skill is applying inversely: the fire interval is 0.65 (60++0.65=92.3, the correct ROF as per patch notes) and with a 15% increase to ROF it should be firing at 0.5525 which is 0.65+ù0.85=0.5525 but is actually firing at 0.7475 which is the result of 0.65+ù1.15=0.7475 which would actually be a decrease in ROF. With 0.5525 (ROF 108.5) we'd have 1.808 shots per second; 9 shots in 4.98 seconds; 781.9 DPS, which would be decent What we currently have is 0.7475 (ROF 80.3) or 1.34 shots per second; 7 shots in 5.2 seconds; 607.8 DPS. TL;DR: Incubus ROF is bugged and applying at a 1.15 ratio instead of a 0.85, meaning the Incubus's railgun is firing slower than the regular railgun None of these calculations were changed, only the values. It would be very surprising, i daresay, impossible for this behaviour to change from Charlie to Delta. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 82	Posted - 2014.09.25 03:02:00 - [43] - Quote Something strange just happened in my last match. I was testing the rails on my incubus when an enemy tank appeared on the field. Naturally i went straight to it, but kept my distance up high since the enemy had 4 blaster turrets and a rail turret. At about 80 meters above the tank the rail turrets REFUSED to do damage. I thought, "that's weird, is that a glitch against the rails?" Alas no. I spent the next 50 seconds shooting the same blaster turret from about 110 meters up so it can't be a rail glitch. Tried the tank again from that range. He's not moving, i'm not moving, reticle is red i should be able to hit him but i can't. Anyone else have this happen to them? Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 822	Posted - 2014.09.25 03:12:00 - [44] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: TL;DR: Incubus ROF is bugged and applying at a 1.15 ratio instead of a 0.85, meaning the Incubus's railgun is firing slower than the regular railgun This sounds like a testable bug. Indeed, I did! The whole reason I ran the calculations is because I pulled out a Gunnlogi which could fire 8 rounds from the railgun, but my Incubus could only fire 7. The numbers I posted are the only explanation I can think of, unless Rattati is right that some heat build-up has been introduced alongside the ROF somehow. CCP Rattati wrote: None of these calculations were changed, only the values. It would be very surprising, i daresay, impossible for this behaviour to change from Charlie to Delta. Well, I don't have the calculations like you do, but I would theorise that the ROF bonus is implemented as a multiplier to the base weapon? If that assumption is correct, then it being changed from x0.5 (Charlie) to x1.15 could have been an accidental misidentification of to what the bonus is being applied to. Is the bonus applied to ROF or fire interval? Because that would be a big difference: ROF would warrant a x1.15 multiplier whereas it being applied to the fire interval would be a x0.85 multiplier. Alt of Halla Murr.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2409	Posted - 2014.09.25 03:15:00 - [45] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. Derriths also the best ADS pilot in the game ATM.... "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7956	Posted - 2014.09.25 03:21:00 - [46] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: TL;DR: Incubus ROF is bugged and applying at a 1.15 ratio instead of a 0.85, meaning the Incubus's railgun is firing slower than the regular railgun This sounds like a testable bug. Indeed, I did! The whole reason I ran the calculations is because I pulled out a Gunnlogi which could fire 8 rounds from the railgun, but my Incubus could only fire 7. The numbers I posted are the only explanation I can think of, unless Rattati is right that some heat build-up has been introduced alongside the ROF somehow. CCP Rattati wrote: None of these calculations were changed, only the values. It would be very surprising, i daresay, impossible for this behaviour to change from Charlie to Delta. Well, I don't have the calculations like you do, but I would theorise that the ROF bonus is implemented as a multiplier to the base weapon? If that assumption is correct, then it being changed from x0.5 (Charlie) to x1.15 could have been an accidental misidentification of to what the bonus is being applied to. Is the bonus applied to ROF or fire interval? Because that would be a big difference: ROF would warrant a x1.15 multiplier whereas it being applied to the fire interval would be a x0.85 multiplier. The bonus would have been changed from 1.1 to 1.03, that's it. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 822	Posted - 2014.09.25 03:23:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The bonus would have been changed from 1.1 to 1.03, that's it. Oh ok. Then I have no idea Alt of Halla Murr.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 2468	Posted - 2014.09.25 04:48:00 - [48] - Quote If we continue with hotfixes I will agree that the ADS needs its nerf slightly reconsidered. However if we look at it from the point of view that we currently only have aerial transports and no aerial attack vehicles, current ADS' are in a good place. The Assault dropship was never meant to be the fighter or attack chopper that you pilots wanted, rather it is the transport bus with a little more speed, a little more offensive power to clear landing/extraction zones, in exchange for less tank and smaller passenger bay. The aircraft you awesome ADS pilots are looking for shouldn't have the capability to transport troops as well as lay down hell from above. It should be unable to take in passengers, be smaller, nimbler, and hit harder than the ADS as it is. But unfortunately, once again, I doubt DUST is getting any content expansions ever again, so it does seem the ADS is the closest you combat pilots will get to aerial dominance. > Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2706	Posted - 2014.09.25 04:58:00 - [49] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: If we continue with hotfixes I will agree that the ADS needs its nerf slightly reconsidered. However if we look at it from the point of view that we currently only have aerial transports and no aerial attack vehicles, current ADS' are in a good place. The Assault dropship was never meant to be the fighter or attack chopper that you pilots wanted, rather it is the transport bus with a little more speed, a little more offensive power to clear landing/extraction zones, in exchange for less tank and smaller passenger bay. The aircraft you awesome ADS pilots are looking for shouldn't have the capability to transport troops as well as lay down hell from above. It should be unable to take in passengers, be smaller, nimbler, and hit harder than the ADS as it is. But unfortunately, once again, I doubt DUST is getting any content expansions ever again, so it does seem the ADS is the closest you combat pilots will get to aerial dominance. Explain to me why it has the word assault in it then. on the ground, assaults are meant for slaying, killing stuff, that, if I remember correctly, is the selling point of the suit. Why, if it isn't meant for some form of killing, does it have the word assault in it? The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1810	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:26:00 - [50] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: If we continue with hotfixes I will agree that the ADS needs its nerf slightly reconsidered. However if we look at it from the point of view that we currently only have aerial transports and no aerial attack vehicles, current ADS' are in a good place. The Assault dropship was never meant to be the fighter or attack chopper that you pilots wanted, rather it is the transport bus with a little more speed, a little more offensive power to clear landing/extraction zones, in exchange for less tank and smaller passenger bay. The aircraft you awesome ADS pilots are looking for shouldn't have the capability to transport troops as well as lay down hell from above. It should be unable to take in passengers, be smaller, nimbler, and hit harder than the ADS as it is. But unfortunately, once again, I doubt DUST is getting any content expansions ever again, so it does seem the ADS is the closest you combat pilots will get to aerial dominance. Explain to me why it has the word assault in it then. on the ground, assaults are meant for slaying, killing stuff, that, if I remember correctly, is the selling point of the suit. Why, if it isn't meant for some form of killing, does it have the word assault in it? Technically he references an attack chopper like the Apache or Cobra. Our drop ships are like Huey's with a gun jammed in the nose. Although we can still make ADS behave as an Apache. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me

medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 984	Posted - 2014.09.25 09:23:00 - [51] - Quote My experience with ADS in Hotfix echo: -I don't notice the afterburner cool down increase. This is because I don't use the thing frequently enough for an increase in cool down to mater. -Rate of fire bonus nerf was slightly noticeable in that it takes a little longer to kill infantry. As I predicted, it is impossible to kill other vehicle. -Not enough interaction with swarms to give feedback. -Plasma cannons are scary now; this is a good thing. My only gripes are threats not rendering, abysmal feedback on what direction damage came from, and impotent against other vehicles. Remember, I didn't have enough interactions with swarms to give feedback. What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3139	Posted - 2014.09.25 09:39:00 - [52] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Ive put up loads of numbers on the small railgun... Though I dunno how useful that actually has been numbers are always useful. Detailed observations are useful. Video is also useful.
La Lore Sleipnier THE PR0T0TYPE 99	Posted - 2014.09.25 10:12:00 - [53] - Quote I'm angry with CCP and with this hotfix Delta. Why do you hate ADS pilots? In every hotfix CCP are trying to "destroy" ADS with betters weapons and nerfing vehicules. And now you have a succes but that results in my rage. I'm a simulator player (jane's longbow, comanche 3, jane's F-15 E) and in all of them anti- air are lethal, like here. But with Delta anti-vehicules are not lethal, they are the worst of the nightmares. Do you think is fair that someone that have inverted a 2 million sp in swarm launcher (it's all of they need) can kill easily a ADS pilot who have inverted more than 8 million of sp to be competitive? No that not fair. Now, the skill that increase python ROF is useless, for that reason, the only options are: increase the ROF per level or make a respect for that skill, because that skill is very expensive to have that nerf Soy una hoja al viento a merced de los elementos... https://dust514.com/recruit/MfQjol/
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 261	Posted - 2014.09.25 11:55:00 - [54] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. It's beyond annoying to skill into something, dedicate time, effort and ISK into becoming decent in the craft to have it become complete garbage from one day to the other. Only an idiot would ever go lvl 5 in caldari/gallente assault dropships because the skill is a joke. 15% rof @ lvl 5 that's about as useless as dropsuit command 5. But what am I ranting about? Flying ADS takes no skill. Aiming and flying is EASY. It takes alot of skill to lock on and shoot swarms that THE GAME AIMS AND TRACKS FOR YOU. Keep up the good work. :) the "numbers" will really be good when "they" turn to 0. Follow your bliss!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4096	Posted - 2014.09.25 12:00:00 - [55] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. Derriths also the best ADS pilot in the game ATM.... While there's no substitute for skill, I don't see how the success of FOUR people dedicated to neutralizing him, regardless of any skill deficit, indicates any problem with ADS'. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2708	Posted - 2014.09.25 12:56:00 - [56] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. Derriths also the best ADS pilot in the game ATM.... While there's no substitute for skill, I don't see how the success of FOUR people dedicated to neutralizing him, regardless of any skill deficit, indicates any problem with ADS'. I can actually agree with you there, but here is the issue with that. One, two of them were forgers, new forgers, which resulted in a lot of missed shots. two, one was a swarmer, all it took was him and having the forge presence on the roof to debilitate me. three, the rammer wasn't all that good at ramming. four, I knew going in that fly zone was a suicide mission, so I avoided it like the plague. five, I didn't choose to have four people gunning for me at the same time. That was their choice. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1594	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:46:00 - [57] - Quote Can I just say this; it has done wonders for the Skill Stack 'Elite' pilots. Ran into a group of them that I play quite frequently against. They avoided my swarms like the plague, they used to fly without a care in the world wrecking everything with their skill stacked Python or Incubus, but yesterday they lost 3 Pythons to me, and, they were running 3 guys, not the normal 2. Sad we had to hurt those that fly solo who don't have to abuse such a mechanic every game. (Of note, I have flown 5 times in a skill stack. 3 were with a guy at level 4, 2 were with a guy with 1, so, yes, I abused that... To test who could actually gun). If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4357	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:54:00 - [58] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. Why are you so antagonistic? He is the AV crusader on the Council. But keep in mind that Judge is on the Council too, so there is balance. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3675	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:59:00 - [59] - Quote Espeon Bons wrote: It's beyond annoying to skill into something, dedicate time, effort and ISK into becoming decent in the craft to have it become complete garbage from one day to the other. Only an idiot would ever go lvl 5 in caldari/gallente assault dropships because the skill is a joke. 15% rof @ lvl 5 that's about as useless as dropsuit command 5. But what am I ranting about? Flying ADS takes no skill. Aiming and flying is EASY. It takes alot of skill to lock on and shoot swarms that THE GAME AIMS AND TRACKS FOR YOU. Keep up the good work. :) the "numbers" will really be good when "they" turn to 0. Yes, I understand that pain. I had Proficiency 4 in Swarm Launchers, along with Rapid Reload 4 and such. They've been literally unable to kill anything in the game since 1.7. It's really nice CCP has made them worthwhile again. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1595	Posted - 2014.09.25 14:05:00 - [60] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. Why are you so antagonistic? He is the AV crusader on the Council. But keep in mind that Judge is on the Council too, so there is balance. Not when Judge is unavailable.. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...

501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 576	Posted - 2014.09.25 14:23:00 - [61] - Quote I used my Mimando in a PC yesterday. Fit: Commando MK.0 (Lvl 5) Enhanced Light Damage Mod Basic Shield Recharger State Wyrkomi Swarm Launcher (Proficiency 2) 'Fearcrop' Boundless Combat Rifle K2 Nanohive Enhanced Kincat Basic Armor Repper I was at enemy home point when a Python was called in right in front of me, hostile. I let lose 2 volleys that hit him before he cut his afterburner, and then let my 3rdvolley as he approached top speed away from me. My swarms ACTUALLY caught up to him...I don't know how I feel about that. Yes, I'm happy I can effectively engage AV, but I feel that the Top Speed of swarms should be dialed back down to 50 m/s, the same top speed as a Python. The Acceleration allows the Swarms to near the target quicker, allowing for less reaction time, so if a Pilot does cut on an AB, my swarms are closer than previously. Having 60 m/s however means my swarms are gaining on the ADS/ pilot even at their top speed, which I feel isn't fair. The ADS is still deadly however, as DarkLucas showed me. I believe a slight tune up of 5% per level is more fair. Pilots I talked to agreed they were very powerful, and they would have accepted even a 30%, 40% nerf, but 70% is just overboard TDLR: Swarm Top Speed lessened to Charlie stats ADSs have a ROF bonus of 5 percent per level, increase if needed 07 CEO of GODS AMONG MEN Clone Wars forever #Starwars: Battlefront 3 Ace Boone's boy =D Friendships are forged by war
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 27	Posted - 2014.09.25 14:48:00 - [62] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. Derriths also the best ADS pilot in the game ATM.... While there's no substitute for skill, I don't see how the success of FOUR people dedicated to neutralizing him, regardless of any skill deficit, indicates any problem with ADS'. It only takes two and you can literally do almost nothing. You can't run, you can't fight them. How is is fair to not even be able to fight off an auto locking no skill weapon? At least a forge takes skill to use. Spec into ads and experience it first hand you'll see.
GVGMODE 189	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:51:00 - [63] - Quote Swarm Launcher is back and better than it's old-self. It is strong, easy to chain, it tracks everything with precision and requires no skill. since an ADS can be spotted from very long distances, which means a well positioned commando with swarms and damage mods can lock an area by itself. Forge Guns are strong as usual. Every vehicle should be driven like pre-vehicle buff.
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2278	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:53:00 - [64] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: I used my Mimando in a PC yesterday. Fit: Commando MK.0 (Lvl 5) Enhanced Light Damage Mod Basic Shield Recharger State Wyrkomi Swarm Launcher (Proficiency 2) 'Fearcrop' Boundless Combat Rifle K2 Nanohive Enhanced Kincat Basic Armor Repper I was at enemy home point when a Python was called in right in front of me, hostile. I let lose 2 volleys that hit him before he cut his afterburner, and then let my 3rdvolley as he approached top speed away from me. My swarms ACTUALLY caught up to him...I don't know how I feel about that. Yes, I'm happy I can effectively engage AV, but I feel that the Top Speed of swarms should be dialed back down to 50 m/s, the same top speed as a Python. The Acceleration allows the Swarms to near the target quicker, allowing for less reaction time, so if a Pilot does cut on an AB, my swarms are closer than previously. Having 60 m/s however means my swarms are gaining on the ADS/ pilot even at their top speed, which I feel isn't fair. The ADS is still deadly however, as DarkLucas showed me. I believe a slight tune up of 5% per level is more fair. Pilots I talked to agreed they were very powerful, and they would have accepted even a 30%, 40% nerf, but 70% is just overboard TDLR: Swarm Top Speed lessened to Charlie stats ADSs have a ROF bonus of 5 percent per level, increase if needed 07 I like the suggestion I read in another thread that the RoF bonus should be on the turret skills themselves and that the ADS bonuses should focus on improving damage application (e.g. maybe modest increase in blast radius for pythons to help with the hit/run play style). Swarms should be faster than dropships, that's not really unfair. Maybe they could reduce it so it's only slightly so, but they still should be faster. Swarms are paper and dropships are rock, paper is supposed to be effective at killing rock because scissors are VERY effective at killing paper, and rocks are very effective at killing scissors. Best PvE idea ever!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3683	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:53:00 - [65] - Quote GVGMode, you can spot an ADS from a long distance, but you need a vehicle of your own to keep up with one or get in range of one. Swarms have a pitifully short lock range, and the forge is still a far superior AV. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3147	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:59:00 - [66] - Quote Fear should be present in all vehicles, all dropsuits. There are only two reasons why one should have no fear of ISK LOSS: 1: Your crap is OP and therefore it's in line for a nerf. Then you will cry a lot. 2: You give precisely zero f**ks about the cost because the raw amount of havok you intend to wreak justifies any cost. I ascribe to #2. I die a lot. I also do hilarious amounts of damage, destroy HAVs, deny ADS kills for entire matches, and often kill them. Does this rampant disregard for anything but the sheer joy of slaughter ISK efficient? No. But my objective isn't efficiency. My objective is to rip your ass off and wear it around the battlefield as a hat. If I get to explode your HAV, LAV or crash your dropship in the process? I call that winning.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1601	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:05:00 - [67] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: GVGMode, you can spot an ADS from a long distance, but you need a vehicle of your own to keep up with one or get in range of one. Swarms have a pitifully short lock range, and the forge is still a far superior AV. Ask the ADS pilot I just fought 22 minutes ago. Guy went 0/0 150WP. Those WP from when I was trying to smash a guy and gave 0 fucks on him shooting me as a Rail Incubus is no threat to my Incubus, even with me damaging myself. I kept him on lock down, he didn't even shoot at an LAV. Yea, I had to run a bit (gasp, having to move to accomplish something), but, I kept him from doing anything except wasting his time. All with my little old Prof 4, Minmando 5 Swarms. As an ADS pilot, I only shot 2 Swarms at him at a time, never went for the 3rd because I didn't want to kill him..what gives me more points, killing his ADS, or keeping it just alive to comeback again and again. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
GVGMODE 189	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:21:00 - [68] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: GVGMode, you can spot an ADS from a long distance, but you need a vehicle of your own to keep up with one or get in range of one. Swarms have a pitifully short lock range, and the forge is still a far superior AV. There is an obvious difference from what AV should do, I believe the AV player main goal is to vehicle lock a part of the map and that going around the map chasing phantoms makes him useless if there are several vehicles users, given that in most maps there are hight positions that could be impossible to reach without a dropship and that are able to cover the air space of several objectives. The lock range may be short but swarms will follow you unlike forge gun shots. Just my opinion about the matter,
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3686	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:22:00 - [69] - Quote GVGMODE, why should ADSes be able to kill infantry if infantry can't kill ADSes? Why is the main goal of every class to generally kill other players, but you think people shouldn't be able to kill you? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3149	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:26:00 - [70] - Quote GVGMODE wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: GVGMode, you can spot an ADS from a long distance, but you need a vehicle of your own to keep up with one or get in range of one. Swarms have a pitifully short lock range, and the forge is still a far superior AV. There is an obvious difference from what AV should do, I believe the AV player main goal is to vehicle lock a part of the map and that going around the map chasing phantoms makes him useless if there are several vehicles users, given that in most maps there are hight positions that could be impossible to reach without a dropship and that are able to cover the air space of several objectives. The lock range may be short but swarms will follow you unlike forge gun shots. Just my opinion about the matter, And yet the forge shots and the locking swarms can be lethal though it isn't assured. If lethality isn't present the tool fails to pass muster to be called a weapon. Plasma cannon testing time.

Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 27	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:37:00 - [71] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: GVGMODE, why should ADSes be able to kill infantry if infantry can't kill ADSes? Why is the main goal of every class to generally kill other players, but you think people shouldn't be able to kill you? It isn't that people should be able to shoot down an ads but that an ads can't even defend itself against swarms. A swarmer can defend himself against infantry though. How is this fair at all.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2712	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:45:00 - [72] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: GVGMODE, why should ADSes be able to kill infantry if infantry can't kill ADSes? Why is the main goal of every class to generally kill other players, but you think people shouldn't be able to kill you? uhhhhhhhh...... you can. It is completely possible to kill us. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:50:00 - [73] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: GVGMODE, why should ADSes be able to kill infantry if infantry can't kill ADSes? Why is the main goal of every class to generally kill other players, but you think people shouldn't be able to kill you? Why should swarms be able to kill ads if we can't kill swarms.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3151	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:58:00 - [74] - Quote You can kill the swarm gunner.
GVGMODE 189	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:01:00 - [75] - Quote I am not saying vehicles should be immortal mechanized behemoths, instead I'm just pointing out to the fact that using swarms is so easy for the weapon to be so good. If swarms required at least some degree of physical skill from the player I wouldn't mind seeing any vehicle die to it, if we consider that CCP will never introduce the vehicle gaps such as every racial vehicle with advanced and prototype levels. The ADS ROF and cool down nerf was needed, but if there is no trade offs such as a nerf in dps for an improvement elsewhere i.e. movement / handling it just deters the use of vehicles.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:06:00 - [76] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You can kill the swarm gunner. Usually you're sent running after one volley now bring your ads near an mko commando that knows where to position himself I'll be happy to show you. 15 hours of trying different fits shows me the advantage is drastically in favor of swarms and no where near balanced. NO SKILL WEAPON AUTO LOCK FTW sounds so fair.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3153	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:07:00 - [77] - Quote Something requiring skill or not is not a balance consideration. Does it work yes/no Does it always work without fail? Yes/no Does it have an effective counter? Yes/no This elitist BS about only tactics that require "skill" being valid ones is crap. If it works it should be used. Just because you're butthurt about fire and forget does not invalidate it as a tactical or balance consideration. Skill is relative and subject to extremes of one's opinion. Numbers matter. Your assessment of skill does not.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:13:00 - [78] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Something requiring skill or not is not a balance consideration. Does it work yes/no Does it always work without fail? Yes/no Does it have an effective counter? Yes/no This elitist BS about only tactics that require "skill" being valid ones is crap. If it works it should be used. Just because you're butthurt about fire and forget does not invalidate it as a tactical or balance consideration. Skill is relative and subject to extremes of one's opinion. Numbers matter. Your assessment of skill does not. The fact being that it works and ads does not. You have almost no chance to fight back is the point. This is not balance this is op. Maybe I'll collect 15 more hours of this and record all the glorious burning ads kills they get on us... I get more kills in a bpo suit.
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2282	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:13:00 - [79] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: You can kill the swarm gunner. Usually you're sent running after one volley now bring your ads near an mko commando that knows where to position himself I'll be happy to show you. 15 hours of trying different fits shows me the advantage is drastically in favor of swarms and no where near balanced. NO SKILL WEAPON AUTO LOCK FTW sounds so fair. You're angry that rock doesn't have an equal chance of killing paper? I'm not saying changes don't need to be made, but your expectations seem ridiculous... Have you tried carrying a passenger in your dropship, and you know, DROPPING them off on the swarmer's head? Best PvE idea ever!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3154	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:14:00 - [80] - Quote Then go do it.

Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:28:00 - [81] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: You can kill the swarm gunner. Usually you're sent running after one volley now bring your ads near an mko commando that knows where to position himself I'll be happy to show you. 15 hours of trying different fits shows me the advantage is drastically in favor of swarms and no where near balanced. NO SKILL WEAPON AUTO LOCK FTW sounds so fair. You're angry that rock doesn't have an equal chance of killing paper? I'm not saying changes don't need to be made, but your expectations seem ridiculous... Have you tried carrying a passenger in your dropship, and you know, DROPPING them off on the swarmer's head? Not my expectations just my reactions. ADS was far too op, but it is not just a transport ship and yes dropping people on swarms works but half the time they still have all volleys in the air before they are down and there is almost no escape. I make myself an easy target I know but this is half the reason I've grinded for a so long. I have 7 proto roles and I can get more done in a bpo than an ads minus uplinks and transport for pc. Dropping them from hough up works but they will spawn in when you come down to help your team.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3690	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:52:00 - [82] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: It isn't that people shouldn't be able to shoot down an ads but that an ads can't even defend itself against swarms. A swarmer can defend himself against infantry though. How is this fair at all. A swarmer can't defend himself against infantry, unless he's a commando or is particularly good with a sidearm. Swarms are the only weapon that can't shoot infantry, making them by far the most crippled weapon in the game. And until yesterday, they couldn't kill vehicles either. Meanwhile, most people can't defend themselves from an ADS. You cry about your poor ADS, as you one or two shot an assault rifle that literally has nothing that can even do damage to you. Yet an ADS can damage every single player in the game. Derrith Erador wrote: uhhhhhhhh...... you can. It is completely possible to kill us. Now it is, for the first time since 1.7 released. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
a brackers Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 76	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:55:00 - [83] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Something requiring skill or not is not a balance consideration. Does it work yes/no Does it always work without fail? Yes/no Does it have an effective counter? Yes/no This elitist BS about only tactics that require "skill" being valid ones is crap. If it works it should be used. Just because you're butthurt about fire and forget does not invalidate it as a tactical or balance consideration. Skill is relative and subject to extremes of one's opinion. Numbers matter. Your assessment of skill does not. Fine. You can have it so you are guaranteed to have your swarms kill us like they are now. Then our hull should cost 10k. U want us to die as easily as you do like we do now, we should cost the same amount as you Proto dropship pilot The sandbox shooter
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 584	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:55:00 - [84] - Quote Guys, we should be discussing ways to make balance again, not just argue with them. Raise the bonus slightly Rattati, see if they engage it more. CEO of GODS AMONG MEN/ Code name: Kronos Friendships are forged by war, enemies by peace Stars Wars Fan4ever, BFront3
a brackers Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 76	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:56:00 - [85] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: It isn't that people shouldn't be able to shoot down an ads but that an ads can't even defend itself against swarms. A swarmer can defend himself against infantry though. How is this fair at all. A swarmer can't defend himself against infantry, unless he's a commando or is particularly good with a sidearm. Swarms are the only weapon that can't shoot infantry, making them by far the most crippled weapon in the game. And until yesterday, they couldn't kill vehicles either. Meanwhile, most people can't defend themselves from an ADS. You cry about your poor ADS, as you one or two shot an assault rifle that literally has nothing that can even do damage to you. Yet an ADS can damage every single player in the game. Derrith Erador wrote: uhhhhhhhh...... you can. It is completely possible to kill us. Now it is, for the first time since 1.7 released. Are you kidding me. Any time two mlt swarmers were on the field ourv ships died. Now it takes one mlt swarmer. A free suit shouldn't take a 380k ship easily every time Proto dropship pilot The sandbox shooter
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 37	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:58:00 - [86] - Quote My squad mate and I have never once failed to take out a vehicle between the two of us, tank, dropship or otherwise. He is a forge gunner and I am a wiyrikomi swarm launcher. We never found it unbalanced that the two of us could kill another player, his gunners and their vehicular equipment, it seemed quite fair. I am not saying this as an opinion on swarm buffs or dropship nerfs, but just that people need to stop saying things like "it was impossible to kills dropships before".
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3694	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:10:00 - [87] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Guys, we should be discussing ways to make balance again, not just argue with them. Raise the bonus slightly Rattati, see if they engage it more. The thing is, we are probably much more balanced now. ADS pilots aren't looking for balance. But it's going to be a few days until there's enough good data on Delta to figure out where balance lies. People need to chill out. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1605	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:16:00 - [88] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Guys, we should be discussing ways to make balance again, not just argue with them. Raise the bonus slightly Rattati, see if they engage it more. The thing is, we are probably much more balanced now. ADS pilots aren't looking for balance. But it's going to be a few days until there's enough good data on Delta to figure out where balance lies. People need to chill out. You took the Incubus's AV capabilities away for the most part (the Efficacy correction does help though) as 7 shots means nothing to a tank. Only a horrific tanker will die to a Rail Incubus. Unless you get a dead-stopped tank that's oblivious, they can usually find their way to safety pretty fast. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2713	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:20:00 - [89] - Quote A strange sixth sense I have tells me we've strayed away from being constructive in this thread... The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
La Lore Sleipnier THE PR0T0TYPE 102	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:21:00 - [90] - Quote No, the is not balanced for ADS pilots. A very expensive inversion is needded to have a good ADS, and is not fair that somebody with a minimum sp's inversion can kill an ADS. And is not easy shoot and kill with ADS. Yes, somebody, except comando, with swarmlauncher is vulnerable. Invert skill points in comando, but now is impossible, I repeat that part IMPOSSIBLE evade swarmlauncher. You want a sky without ADS? You will have a game without pilot. And the nerf of a 70% in a VERY expensibe skill is not a joke, is a bullshit. Now nerf the cloak, the HMG, the tanks, the snipers rifles and everything. Nerf the assault dropsuit and make a more balanced game for everybody who want to play well without invert sp's Soy una hoja al viento a merced de los elementos... https://dust514.com/recruit/MfQjol/

Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2283	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:23:00 - [91] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: My squad mate and I have never once failed to take out a vehicle between the two of us, tank, dropship or otherwise. He is a forge gunner and I am a wiyrikomi swarm launcher. We never found it unbalanced that the two of us could kill another player, his gunners and their vehicular equipment, it seemed quite fair. I am not saying this as an opinion on swarm buffs or dropship nerfs, but just that people need to stop saying things like "it was impossible to kill dropships before". We literally NEVER failed to take one out, together. I ran an ADS for the first time (well there may have been a couple of attempts that ended up in me suiciding while I figured out the controls--I'd rather not talk about it), a few days before the patch hit. I had multiple guys trying to swarm me and I managed to get away every time. I even managed to get a kill with my STD turret. I am a hilariously TERRIBLE pilot. I should have been killed, but the afterburner is like a magic get-out-of-trouble button. If I were playing infantry as badly as I was piloting, I would have been massacred. I'm not saying all of the changes are perfect, but swarms should be an effective counter to dropships, that means killing them and not just chasing them off for a few seconds. I could see increasing lock times on swarms a bit, further reducing swarm agility, while maintaining current acceleration and speed, etc. Best PvE idea ever!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5212	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:23:00 - [92] - Quote a brackers wrote: 1) Are you kidding me. Any time two mlt swarmers were on the field ourv ships died. 2) Now it takes one mlt swarmer. 1) Bullsh!t. 2) Bullsh!t. Why make stuff up? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:27:00 - [93] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: It isn't that people shouldn't be able to shoot down an ads but that an ads can't even defend itself against swarms. A swarmer can defend himself against infantry though. How is this fair at all. A swarmer can't defend himself against infantry, unless he's a commando or is particularly good with a sidearm. Swarms are the only weapon that can't shoot infantry, making them by far the most crippled weapon in the game. And until yesterday, they couldn't kill vehicles either. Meanwhile, most people can't defend themselves from an ADS. You cry about your poor ADS, as you one or two shot an assault rifle that literally has nothing that can even do damage to you. Yet an ADS can damage every single player in the game. Derrith Erador wrote: uhhhhhhhh...... you can. It is completely possible to kill us. Now it is, for the first time since 1.7 released. I always liked swarms over forge, I don't play commando only role I don't use. I can almost always defend myself. To say you can't is ludicrous. I DO and everyone I play with does.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2714	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:32:00 - [94] - Quote Shotty you available right now? The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3700	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:32:00 - [95] - Quote La Lore Sleipnier wrote: And the nerf of a 70% in a VERY expensibe skill is not a joke, is a bullshit. Very expensive skills like weapon proficiencies (5x, I believe) offer like 3% damage increase per level. Rate of fire is fairly comparable to damage. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3700	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:35:00 - [96] - Quote Standard forge guns are superior to swarms in almost every way. 1. They do more damage. 2. They're a lot more likely to actually hit their target. 3. They hit faster. 4. They can fire further. 5. They can't be outrun or dodged. 6. They can be charged behind cover (unlike swarms requiring line of sight to lock). CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5213	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:36:00 - [97] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Shotty you available right now? Yep. Signing on. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:41:00 - [98] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: La Lore Sleipnier wrote: And the nerf of a 70% in a VERY expensibe skill is not a joke, is a bullshit. Very expensive skills like weapon proficiencies (5x, I believe) offer like 3% damage increase per level. Rate of fire is fairly comparable to damage. Have prof 5 weapons. Not comparable to rof you even fly bro? Can't defend yourself in a swarm suit, can't go 16 and 0.... I like the idea of increased lock on time. Swarms should be able to take out ads but ads should be able to fight back with reasonable confidence. Maybe raise rof to 5%, afterburners are fine, maybe reconsider 500 shield buff. Those few things may make ads more viable without it being op.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:43:00 - [99] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Standard forge guns are superior to swarms in almost every way. 1. They do more damage. 2. They're a lot more likely to actually hit their target. 3. They hit faster. 4. They can fire further. 5. They can't be outrun or dodged. 6. They can be charged behind cover (unlike swarms requiring line of sight to lock). Can dodge, swarms can almost never be out ran, well positioned swarms can be hard to hit even while locking on. Must run after first volley but you can fight a forge gunner due to agility of the ads.
a brackers Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 76	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:01:00 - [100] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: a brackers wrote: 1) Are you kidding me. Any time two mlt swarmers were on the field ourv ships died. 2) Now it takes one mlt swarmer. 1) Bullsh!t. 2) Bullsh!t. Why make stuff up? Why would I make stuff up. If I bothered to get a hdmi record box to show you but I can't be bothered. Proto dropship pilot The sandbox shooter

Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:29:00 - [101] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Standard forge guns are superior to swarms in almost every way. 1. They do more damage. 2. They're a lot more likely to actually hit their target. 3. They hit faster. 4. They can fire further. 5. They can't be outrun or dodged. 6. They can be charged behind cover (unlike swarms requiring line of sight to lock). Do you even ADS? Follow your bliss!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:38:00 - [102] - Quote Espeon Bons wrote: Do you even ADS? Do you even AV? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:39:00 - [103] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Guys, we should be discussing ways to make balance again, not just argue with them. Raise the bonus slightly Rattati, see if they engage it more. The thing is, we are probably much more balanced now. ADS pilots aren't looking for balance. But it's going to be a few days until there's enough good data on Delta to figure out where balance lies. People need to chill out. Yes, the best way to find balance is by nerfing X and buffing Y. When both x and y directly affect each other. Thus nerfing X (bringing it to the level of y) and then buffing y(putting Y over the new level of X) creates balance. I mean only an idiot would either nerf one OR buff the other. Doing nerf and buffs together is always the best. I mean its simple math that a plus and a minus = a minus Follow your bliss!
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:40:00 - [104] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Espeon Bons wrote: Do you even ADS? Do you even AV? I certainly do and by the leaderboards I've got way more experience in this game than you. Follow your bliss!
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:42:00 - [105] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Espeon Bons wrote: Do you even ADS? Do you even AV? And answering a question with a question shows you have no idea wtf you're talking about. Follow your bliss!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:42:00 - [106] - Quote Espeon Bons wrote: Yes, the best way to find balance is by nerfing X and buffing Y. When both x and y directly affect each other. Thus nerfing X (bringing it to the level of y) and then buffing y(putting Y over the new level of X) creates balance. I mean only an idiot would either nerf one OR buff the other. Doing nerf and buffs together is always the best. I mean its simple math that a plus and a minus = a minus The problem was that X and Y were so ridiculously far apart, that nerfing X and buffing Y was the only reasonable way to bring them anywhere close together. o.O Because just doing one or the other either wouldn't be strong enough or would have to be such a strong nerf or buff it would break other things. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2714	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:45:00 - [107] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Espeon Bons wrote: Do you even ADS? Do you even AV? Yes I do actually. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3709	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:56:00 - [108] - Quote For a few months I did almost nothing but swarm-based AV, until 1.7 when they stopped being able to damage... anything really. Vehicles were still overbearingly unmanageable, so I moved into forges for AV, and I was amazed at all of the advantages. Even with swarms being buffed as they are, I will still likely favor forges. Though I'm trying to get some good swarm testing in. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
La Lore Sleipnier THE PR0T0TYPE 103	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:58:00 - [109] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: La Lore Sleipnier wrote: And the nerf of a 70% in a VERY expensibe skill is not a joke, is a bullshit. Very expensive skills like weapon proficiencies (5x, I believe) offer like 3% damage increase per level. Rate of fire is fairly comparable to damage. x5 not x8 like the Caldari ADS ROF. Ok, reduce the cost from x8 to x5 and change ROF for damage. And remember, the skim that increase the damage of ADS turrets increase 2% not 3% like weapons proficiencies. The problem here is what a noob pretend kill an ADS with militia swarmlauncher Soy una hoja al viento a merced de los elementos... https://dust514.com/recruit/MfQjol/
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:02:00 - [110] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Espeon Bons wrote: It's beyond annoying to skill into something, dedicate time, effort and ISK into becoming decent in the craft to have it become complete garbage from one day to the other. Only an idiot would ever go lvl 5 in caldari/gallente assault dropships because the skill is a joke. 15% rof @ lvl 5 that's about as useless as dropsuit command 5. But what am I ranting about? Flying ADS takes no skill. Aiming and flying is EASY. It takes alot of skill to lock on and shoot swarms that THE GAME AIMS AND TRACKS FOR YOU. Keep up the good work. :) the "numbers" will really be good when "they" turn to 0. Yes, I understand that pain. I had Proficiency 4 in Swarm Launchers, along with Rapid Reload 4 and such. They've been literally unable to kill anything in the game since 1.7. It's really nice CCP has made them worthwhile again. Really theres a learning curve for swarms? It's not like the ADS where any moron can jump in and missiles auto lock on and do damage? #noanoaimnotrackingskillrequired Follow your bliss!

Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:05:00 - [111] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Espeon Bons wrote: Yes, the best way to find balance is by nerfing X and buffing Y. When both x and y directly affect each other. Thus nerfing X (bringing it to the level of y) and then buffing y(putting Y over the new level of X) creates balance. I mean only an idiot would either nerf one OR buff the other. Doing nerf and buffs together is always the best. I mean its simple math that a plus and a minus = a minus The problem was that X and Y were so ridiculously far apart, that nerfing X and buffing Y was the only reasonable way to bring them anywhere close together. o.O Because just doing one or the other either wouldn't be strong enough or would have to be such a strong nerf or buff it would break other things. Ridiculously far apart? Do you even play dust514? Follow your bliss!
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 664	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:07:00 - [112] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Still strange Judge isn't around during this. Convenient timing. It'd be really nice if he was here. I usually don't agree with him, but he has a lot of logic to his arguments, and I think he would really raise the bar on the ADS side of the debate if he were around. Because a lot of the statements are anecdotal, which isn't useful. Judge is really great at testing and crunching the numbers. And having him around would really centralize the debate on the facts. Wasn't Judge having some internet troubles? On topic - flying my ADS (very minimal skilled into vehicles. not a good pilot. don't claim to be one. I just use it to clear things at get +5's): I noticed a huge surge of AV now. People are a lot less afraid to bring out AV. At least this has been my impression based on, like 2 battles.... thousands of tons of grains of salt bounce everywhere I gotta say, I'm much more confident in flying my normal dropships in to support my team though! Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3711	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:08:00 - [113] - Quote There's actually a lot of skill in figuring out how to hit dropships with swarms without hitting buildings. Forges are a lot easier, since you just point and shoot. Swarms require like... some basic understanding of geometry. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3712	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:09:00 - [114] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Wasn't Judge having some internet troubles? Yeah, I didn't think it would be this long, I'm not sure what's up with that. It'd be really helpful if he was around for this stuff, rather than just the "nerf vehicles" CPM member. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2139	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:12:00 - [115] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: For a few months I did almost nothing but swarm-based AV, until 1.7 when they stopped being able to damage... anything really. Vehicles were still overbearingly unmanageable, so I moved into forges for AV, and I was amazed at all of the advantages. Even with swarms being buffed as they are, I will still likely favor forges. Though I'm trying to get some good swarm testing in. The problem in 1.7 was the hardening (shield) and repair (armor) capabilities of vehicles, which have been adjusted to more reasonable levels. Forges are better because they provide tank-grade alpha damage to anything you can point it at. They are highly player-skill intensive, especially at longer ranges. Because of this, and some of their drawback such as the need of a heavy suit w/ low mobility, they deserve to be the top-tier infantry AV. Though swarms do a bit less damage, but are more reliable because, outside of navigation mishaps, they're almost guaranteed to hit whatever you're locking, with minimal effort. Not to mention they receive buffs from commando skills (reload, damage for Min), as well as the possibility of another light weapon for defense. Due to their ease of use and benefits from being put on commando and med/light suits, they shouldn't be as good as forges. One thing that has concerned me is effectiveness of higher class AV weapons on lighter class vehicles (forges against LAVs, for example). I'm not too concerned with it now, since we only have 2 AV weapons, but in Legion where (I assume) we're getting a racial parody of heavy and light AV weapons, I think heavy weapons should be less effective against lighter class vehicles (and visa versa). Either that, or have variations of each be more effective against light/heavy class vehicles (for example, STD class swarms will be more effective against tanks where Assault class will be faster, but do less damage, to take out LAVs/ADSs). Dust was real! I was there!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3712	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:24:00 - [116] - Quote Vulpes, what you're shrugging off as "navigation mishaps" is the primary limitation of swarms. Around a city socket, you can assume half of all swarms will miss. And swarms should be the best AV weapon, theoretically, since they completely sacrifice anti-infantry capability, unlike the forge. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 986	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:30:00 - [117] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: There's actually a lot of skill in figuring out how to hit dropships with swarms without hitting buildings. Forges are a lot easier, since you just point and shoot. Swarms require like... some basic understanding of geometry. Actually there isn't. If you read my post or used swarms as much as you claimed, you would know that swarm missiles track dropships differently than ground targets. There is skill in knowing when to fire swarm volleys so that it actually hits target; and with the recent buff, that is even easier now. Please work on a solution for ADS being unable to effectively kill vehicles. What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 751	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:40:00 - [118] - Quote At least in the last two evenings I didn't come across an Incubus that would be able to kill my Grimsnes. If that trend continues I'd suggest a combination of improving railgun ROF and ADS skill effect slightly each.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:55:00 - [119] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: For a few months I did almost nothing but swarm-based AV, until 1.7 when they stopped being able to damage... anything really. Vehicles were still overbearingly unmanageable, so I moved into forges for AV, and I was amazed at all of the advantages. Even with swarms being buffed as they are, I will still likely favor forges. Though I'm trying to get some good swarm testing in. I killed most everything with swarms and av Nades pre update. Again your personal skull is not a bases for balancing hard numbers.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3713	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:59:00 - [120] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: I killed most everything with swarms and av Nades pre update. Again your personal skull is not a bases for balancing hard numbers. Thankfully, the game was balanced for Hotfix Delta based on hard numbers and statistics, not my personal skill. :) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:00:00 - [121] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Vulpes, what you're shrugging off as "navigation mishaps" is the primary limitation of swarms. Around a city socket, you can assume half of all swarms will miss. And swarms should be the best AV weapon, theoretically, since they completely sacrifice anti-infantry capability, unlike the forge. Again I kill people in my swarm suit all the time you do not sacrifice much anti infantry. You just sound like another whiner.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:01:00 - [122] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: I killed most everything with swarms and av Nades pre update. Again your personal skull is not a bases for balancing hard numbers. Thankfully, the game was balanced for Hotfix Delta based on hard numbers and statistics, not my personal skill. :) Then why do you keep using them in your argument when all things point to the Nerf and buff breaking ads?
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3714	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:06:00 - [123] - Quote We're both discussing our personal opinions, really. The fact that the ADS was statistically OP isn't really debatable. It's a fact. But we don't have statistics yet for Delta, so there's no facts to be had yet. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 695	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:08:00 - [124] - Quote Where is the rest of the CPM? I only see this nimrod who is mad because he's not very good at the game.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3716	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:11:00 - [125] - Quote Cross and IWS have both been posting actively on the forums today. Judge is unfortunately unavailable right now, which sucks. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:13:00 - [126] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: We're both discussing our personal opinions, really. The fact that the ADS was statistically OP isn't really debatable. It's a fact. But we don't have statistics yet for Delta, so there's no facts to be had yet. I did agree with that earlier, it was op. But It Is The Worst Thing IN THE Game Now Based On Sp Spent vs. Effectiveness and this unique aspect of the game is why many people even still play. Not all by any means but you can see what I'm getting at. I Shouldn't be capable of going 30-3 in a bpo and lose every ads I call in while killing four to ten. I lost more money than before the price was reduced and could hardly break even on kd flying. I was paid to fly in pc ive done it for a while.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 697	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:13:00 - [127] - Quote I've seen some posts but nothing in here regarding ADS. I am not a pilot but I am an avid forge gunner who likes a challenge. These ADS changes have turned AV into EZmode.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:16:00 - [128] - Quote Dust User wrote: Where is the rest of the CPM? I only see this nimrod who is mad because he's not very good at the game. Ty, he obviously needs to go play destiny.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3175	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:28:00 - [129] - Quote Test 1, ADS TTK complete: Findings posted at this thread: Wisdom, B**ches
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3717	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:30:00 - [130] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: We're both discussing our personal opinions, really. The fact that the ADS was statistically OP isn't really debatable. It's a fact. But we don't have statistics yet for Delta, so there's no facts to be had yet. I did agree with that earlier, it was op. But It Is The Worst Thing IN THE Game Now Based On Sp Spent vs. Effectiveness and this unique aspect of the game is why many people even still play. Not all by any means but you can see what I'm getting at. I Shouldn't be capable of going 30-3 in a bpo and lose every ads I call in while killing four to ten. I lost more money than before the price was reduced and could hardly break even on kd flying. I was paid to fly in pc ive done it for a while. Effectiveness for the ISK cost is actually something CCP can determine with the aforementioned statistics. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2911	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:36:00 - [131] - Quote Direct CPM response in this thread was requested, I quote my reply from another thread on this subject. Cross Atu wrote: My views are in process as I am currently observing ongoing testing here. Based on numbers prior to Delta changes were warranted, whether the Delta changes were too much or too little will be ascertained via testing and in game data gathering and adjustments will be advocated for and made as warranted. Cheers, Cross Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2716	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:42:00 - [132] - Quote You know, it's great how you all have become such good friends with all your banter and playful kittens, but I just made a new thread, with results, so feel free to hop off this and take a look at it. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4199	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:51:00 - [133] - Quote Testing the delta numbers will demonstrate the veracity of the various assertions here. I don't pretend to have much of a sample size of playtime on Delta yet, but I am listening to both sides and Derrith has my ear, as well as anyone who wishes to get a hold of me. Knowing the bloated KDR of the ADS prior to Delta I'm confident a nerf was in order for the ADS in some way (module and/or turret and/or hull), I also know swarms were almost useless as solo AV compared to a forge or rail tank or especially rail incubus as I could demonstrably avoid swarms very easily unless they were putting multiple swarmers in one place and firing in unison the first time. Anything else and I would just AB away and/or avoid the area. Espy's sarcastic tone aside (really brah, you might be taken seriously if you drop the attitude) his assertion that all the changes may have been overkill, which will mean a couple of small tweaks to make ADS a bit better assuming swarms are in a good place. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2716	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:00:00 - [134] - Quote ooooh my, such big strong, important peoples in my own thread. I think I should lay out some cookies and milk for my guests. Anyone want some cheetos too? The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 176	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:04:00 - [135] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: We're both discussing our personal opinions, really. The fact that the ADS was statistically OP isn't really debatable. It's a fact. But we don't have statistics yet for Delta, so there's no facts to be had yet. Dont say it was op,nothings absolute. In some scenarios it may be op but in others like small maps its nowhere near op. Just look at some of the small maps, redline installations reach you no matter where youre at, so some maps are unplayabe in an ads.
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 986	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:06:00 - [136] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: ooooh my, such big strong, important peoples in my own thread. I think I should lay out some cookies and milk for my guests. Anyone want some cheetos too? o/ What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3717	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:19:00 - [137] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: We're both discussing our personal opinions, really. The fact that the ADS was statistically OP isn't really debatable. It's a fact. But we don't have statistics yet for Delta, so there's no facts to be had yet. Dont say it was op,nothings absolute. In some scenarios it may be op but in others like small maps its nowhere near op. Just look at some of the small maps, redline installations reach you no matter where youre at, so some maps are unplayabe in an ads. It was factually OP. It really isn't a debatable thing. The statistics are staggering, and CCP Rattati lays it down here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2371528#post2371528 and here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2361400#post2361400 I wish the actual numbers were public, but the fact that they aren't does not make them less true. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 176	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:30:00 - [138] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: We're both discussing our personal opinions, really. The fact that the ADS was statistically OP isn't really debatable. It's a fact. But we don't have statistics yet for Delta, so there's no facts to be had yet. Dont say it was op,nothings absolute. In some scenarios it may be op but in others like small maps its nowhere near op. Just look at some of the small maps, redline installations reach you no matter where youre at, so some maps are unplayabe in an ads. It was factually OP. It really isn't a debatable thing. The statistics are staggering, and CCP Rattati lays it down here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2371528#post2371528 and here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2361400#post2361400 I wish the actual numbers were public, but the fact that they aren't does not make them less true. Dropships take 3 forge hits to down so just get a buddy and only 1 of you has to get 2 shots on him. Swarms i admit are underpowered bit i dont think theyll ever be op to dropships, because they come at you the same way everytime so you get used to it. Now with the rof nerf dropship battles are nonexistent dropship/tank battles are nonexistent. I can still kill infantry just fine but man you guys when you balance you do not see the big picture because you dont play the role. So balance it only around infantry whatever.
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH 162	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:32:00 - [139] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: I killed most everything with swarms and av Nades pre update. Again your personal skull is not a bases for balancing hard numbers. Thankfully, the game was balanced for Hotfix Delta based on hard numbers and statistics, not my personal skill. :) Maybe if you join a thread and go against what the community you are oblivious to the issue. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 31	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:38:00 - [140] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: I killed most everything with swarms and av Nades pre update. Again your personal skull is not a bases for balancing hard numbers. Thankfully, the game was balanced for Hotfix Delta based on hard numbers and statistics, not my personal skill. :) Maybe if you join a thread and go against what the community you are oblivious to the issue. You mean the few who whine here as apposed to the majority that shut up and play the game? Smh

Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH 162	Posted - 2014.09.26 00:15:00 - [141] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Derrith can I have your input on something, please? I want to get this idea to gain in popularity: Scrubbing swarms. Let's say there was a way to make swarms lose tracking through a scrubbing motion or by making them bend beyond their ability to turn. How do you feel about the idea and how could we go about balancing it? I find it boring when I am forced to sit out for 45 seconds waiting for my hardners to come back before getting back into the fight, only the be instantly chased away again by the same swarmer that I cannot find. If instead I was able to scrub the missiles I would actually be doing something other then sitting and waiting to re-engage. You mean techniques to make swarms go off target? Perhaps, but I honestly don't know how you'd go about this, so I'm afraid I cannot any decent insight. I do enjoy the idea however, would give us more to do than duck behind a building and hope for the best. If the swarms math is done correctly there should be an degree of angle to turn the dropship where the swarms can pass or you can pass them by, depending on which way you choose. It should be anywhere from 0-¦ - 90-¦ degree angles. 90-¦ is an "T" shape, the top or lower half of the letter can represent the angle depending if you are trying to make the swarm missiles pass you or you are trying to pass them. The issue is the degree angle has to factor in according to the swarms speed, but swarms are still not affected by its turning radius for tracking. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Nora Everett LORD-BRITISH Couedic Lancer And Shields 2	Posted - 2014.09.26 00:37:00 - [142] - Quote Sorry in poor English. How long is there the person who can play an active part in ADS? Mass SP and experience are necessary to become able to play an active part. The strong person does kill more than ADS in foot soldiers, is it not same as it?
Ronan Elsword Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 296	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:01:00 - [143] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Espeon Bons wrote: It's beyond annoying to skill into something, dedicate time, effort and ISK into becoming decent in the craft to have it become complete garbage from one day to the other. Only an idiot would ever go lvl 5 in caldari/gallente assault dropships because the skill is a joke. 15% rof @ lvl 5 that's about as useless as dropsuit command 5. But what am I ranting about? Flying ADS takes no skill. Aiming and flying is EASY. It takes alot of skill to lock on and shoot swarms that THE GAME AIMS AND TRACKS FOR YOU. Keep up the good work. :) the "numbers" will really be good when "they" turn to 0. Yes, I understand that pain. I had Proficiency 4 in Swarm Launchers, along with Rapid Reload 4 and such. They've been literally unable to kill anything in the game since 1.7. It's really nice CCP has made them worthwhile again. What are you on? I don't use swarms often, but when I do I don't have issues killing anything. Especially if I have another player using a swarm the right way (Not standing in the open running towards a tank or jumping on a mountain waving at the dropship) it works wonders. *Ode to the days before AA Hipfire was better than ads*
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH 162	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:06:00 - [144] - Quote Nora Everett wrote: Sorry in poor English. How long is there the person who can play an active part in ADS? Mass SP and experience are necessary to become able to play an active part. The strong person does kill more than ADS in foot soldiers, is it not same as it? Hey Nora it seems that maxing out your turret, shield and armor optimizations are very important. Right now this seems to be the most important thing for pilots to survive while using an afterburner. I hope this answers your question. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2719	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:09:00 - [145] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Nora Everett wrote: Sorry in poor English. How long is there the person who can play an active part in ADS? Mass SP and experience are necessary to become able to play an active part. The strong person does kill more than ADS in foot soldiers, is it not same as it? Hey Nora it seems that maxing out your turret, shield and armor optimizations are very important. Right now this seems to be the most important thing for pilots to survive while using an afterburner. I hope this answers your question. wrong, I'm afraid. Shield and armor OP are good if you get them at 3, armor is good at 4. But that is only if you're using the ADS, and not tank. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3257	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:09:00 - [146] - Quote Derrith how old are you? When you learn the difference between subjective and objective, you can come back and actually give meaningful feedback. The Feedback section is a place to make the game better Lets excuse the blatant racist remarks and overall ego trip that is your thread, and try to look at your feedback. Game One: I really don't see a problem. Four players (if you include the gorgan pilot) dedicated their roles to making you useless. How is a 4:1 ratio or even a 3:1 unbalanced to ADS pilots; especially when those players where using a hard counter towards your vehicle. I am sorry you can't drop those 20 and 30 bombs anymore . Game Two: You went 16-0... Even the opposing team switched up to counter you... militia or not. CCP don't even waste your time on this trash. Escrow Removal and Acquisition- Our ERA has only just begun... Gym Bro/ Meat Head -- CrossFit enthusiast
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2721	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:17:00 - [147] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith how old are you? When you learn the difference between subjective and objective, you can come back and actually give meaningful feedback. The Feedback section is a place to make the game better Lets excuse the blatant racist remarks and overall ego trip that is your thread, and try to look at your feedback. Game One: I really don't see a problem. Four players (if you include the gorgan pilot) dedicated their roles to making you useless. How is a 4:1 ratio or even a 3:1 unbalanced to ADS pilots; especially when those players where using a hard counter towards your vehicle. I am sorry you can't drop those 20 and 30 bombs anymore . Game Two: You went 16-0... Even the opposing team switched up to counter you... militia or not. CCP don't even waste your time on this trash. blatant racism? I'm latino myself, I can get away with saying that. And I'm also sorry, that I've blown you up more times in PC than you've had kills. Oh and hate to break to your heart, but I just came out of PC against Dust Brasil ringing for NAE, dropped 20-2, so thanks for your concern, but I'm not dead yet The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 160	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:30:00 - [148] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith how old are you? When you learn the difference between subjective and objective, you can come back and actually give meaningful feedback. The Feedback section is a place to make the game better Lets excuse the blatant racist remarks and overall ego trip that is your thread, and try to look at your feedback. Game One: I really don't see a problem. Four players (if you include the gorgan pilot) dedicated their roles to making you useless. How is a 4:1 ratio or even a 3:1 unbalanced to ADS pilots; especially when those players where using a hard counter towards your vehicle. I am sorry you can't drop those 20 and 30 bombs anymore . Game Two: You went 16-0... Even the opposing team switched up to counter you... militia or not. CCP don't even waste your time on this trash. blatant racism? I'm latino myself, I can get away with saying that. And I'm also sorry, that I've blown you up more times in PC than you've had kills. Oh and hate to break to your heart, but I just came out of PC against Dust Brasil ringing for NAE, dropped 20-2, so thanks for your concern, but I'm not dead yet Could you at least attempt to reasonably respond to his post? He clearly writes out what his problem with your OP was, and you completely ignore it to derail everything into a troll bickering contest. Stay on point as he did and try to keep away from the flashy words like 'racism' And he's pretty much has you, this thread is pointless.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2722	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:37:00 - [149] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith how old are you? When you learn the difference between subjective and objective, you can come back and actually give meaningful feedback. The Feedback section is a place to make the game better Lets excuse the blatant racist remarks and overall ego trip that is your thread, and try to look at your feedback. Game One: I really don't see a problem. Four players (if you include the gorgan pilot) dedicated their roles to making you useless. How is a 4:1 ratio or even a 3:1 unbalanced to ADS pilots; especially when those players where using a hard counter towards your vehicle. I am sorry you can't drop those 20 and 30 bombs anymore . Game Two: You went 16-0... Even the opposing team switched up to counter you... militia or not. CCP don't even waste your time on this trash. blatant racism? I'm latino myself, I can get away with saying that. And I'm also sorry, that I've blown you up more times in PC than you've had kills. Oh and hate to break to your heart, but I just came out of PC against Dust Brasil ringing for NAE, dropped 20-2, so thanks for your concern, but I'm not dead yet Could you at least attempt to reasonably respond to his post? He clearly writes out what his problem with your OP was, and you completely ignore it to derail everything into a troll bickering contest. Stay on point as he did and try to keep away from the flashy words like 'racism' And he's pretty much has you, this thread is pointless. Sota, let me explain a few things to you. 1) Feedback is the new war room. As far as I'm concerned, Reggie was just feeling lonely and needed someone to talk crap to. 2) I'm supposed to act professional while he isn't? Yeah, screw that, if he's gonna talk some crap, than I don't see why I shouldn't get a little fun out of it too. 3) Racism, again, I'm Latino. 4) This thread is pointless, you have me there. Well, you would've, if this thread started around page 3. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3257	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:39:00 - [150] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith how old are you? When you learn the difference between subjective and objective, you can come back and actually give meaningful feedback. The Feedback section is a place to make the game better Lets excuse the blatant racist remarks and overall ego trip that is your thread, and try to look at your feedback. Game One: I really don't see a problem. Four players (if you include the gorgan pilot) dedicated their roles to making you useless. How is a 4:1 ratio or even a 3:1 unbalanced to ADS pilots; especially when those players where using a hard counter towards your vehicle. I am sorry you can't drop those 20 and 30 bombs anymore . Game Two: You went 16-0... Even the opposing team switched up to counter you... militia or not. CCP don't even waste your time on this trash. blatant racism? I'm latino myself, I can get away with saying that. And I'm also sorry, that I've blown you up more times in PC than you've had kills. Oh and hate to break to your heart, but I just came out of PC against Dust Brasil ringing for NAE, dropped 20-2, so thanks for your concern, but I'm not dead yet Confirming you're 12 1. IDGAF how many time you killed in PC, FW, or Pubs. It has noting to with my post or my feedback 2. IDGAF about your scores or your PC feats. The feedback section is here to make the game better and more enjoyable. Grow the **** up Escrow Removal and Acquisition- Our ERA has only just begun... Gym Bro/ Meat Head -- CrossFit enthusiast

Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2723	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:42:00 - [151] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith how old are you? When you learn the difference between subjective and objective, you can come back and actually give meaningful feedback. The Feedback section is a place to make the game better Lets excuse the blatant racist remarks and overall ego trip that is your thread, and try to look at your feedback. Game One: I really don't see a problem. Four players (if you include the gorgan pilot) dedicated their roles to making you useless. How is a 4:1 ratio or even a 3:1 unbalanced to ADS pilots; especially when those players where using a hard counter towards your vehicle. I am sorry you can't drop those 20 and 30 bombs anymore . Game Two: You went 16-0... Even the opposing team switched up to counter you... militia or not. CCP don't even waste your time on this trash. blatant racism? I'm latino myself, I can get away with saying that. And I'm also sorry, that I've blown you up more times in PC than you've had kills. Oh and hate to break to your heart, but I just came out of PC against Dust Brasil ringing for NAE, dropped 20-2, so thanks for your concern, but I'm not dead yet Confirming you're 12 1. IDGAF how many time you killed in PC, FW, or Pubs. It has noting to with my post or my feedback 2. IDGAF about your scores or your PC feats. The feedback section is here to make the game better and more enjoyable. Grow the **** up Hah, I wish I was twelve. You got any idea how awkward it is for a grown man to play with a slinky or toy fire truck? It's not a pretty sight. But oh god is it fun! The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 177	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:43:00 - [152] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith how old are you? When you learn the difference between subjective and objective, you can come back and actually give meaningful feedback. The Feedback section is a place to make the game better Lets excuse the blatant racist remarks and overall ego trip that is your thread, and try to look at your feedback. Game One: I really don't see a problem. Four players (if you include the gorgan pilot) dedicated their roles to making you useless. How is a 4:1 ratio or even a 3:1 unbalanced to ADS pilots; especially when those players where using a hard counter towards your vehicle. I am sorry you can't drop those 20 and 30 bombs anymore . Game Two: You went 16-0... Even the opposing team switched up to counter you... militia or not. CCP don't even waste your time on this trash. blatant racism? I'm latino myself, I can get away with saying that. And I'm also sorry, that I've blown you up more times in PC than you've had kills. Oh and hate to break to your heart, but I just came out of PC against Dust Brasil ringing for NAE, dropped 20-2, so thanks for your concern, but I'm not dead yet Confirming you're 12 1. IDGAF how many time you killed in PC, FW, or Pubs. It has noting to with my post or my feedback 2. IDGAF about your scores or your PC feats. The feedback section is here to make the game better and more enjoyable. Grow the **** up Hey you went low 1st you called him a racist thats 1 of the oldest, lowest, dirtiest tricks in the book and i think al sharpton beat you to the punch.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 31	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:43:00 - [153] - Quote Butt hurt cpm lost all his districts gtfo
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2723	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:45:00 - [154] - Quote Action, Demandred, don't mind them, they're just lonely. They just needed to do a little trash talking like the old days. No big deal. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3257	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:49:00 - [155] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith how old are you? When you learn the difference between subjective and objective, you can come back and actually give meaningful feedback. The Feedback section is a place to make the game better Lets excuse the blatant racist remarks and overall ego trip that is your thread, and try to look at your feedback. Game One: I really don't see a problem. Four players (if you include the gorgan pilot) dedicated their roles to making you useless. How is a 4:1 ratio or even a 3:1 unbalanced to ADS pilots; especially when those players where using a hard counter towards your vehicle. I am sorry you can't drop those 20 and 30 bombs anymore . Game Two: You went 16-0... Even the opposing team switched up to counter you... militia or not. CCP don't even waste your time on this trash. blatant racism? I'm latino myself, I can get away with saying that. And I'm also sorry, that I've blown you up more times in PC than you've had kills. Oh and hate to break to your heart, but I just came out of PC against Dust Brasil ringing for NAE, dropped 20-2, so thanks for your concern, but I'm not dead yet Confirming you're 12 1. IDGAF how many time you killed in PC, FW, or Pubs. It has noting to with my post or my feedback 2. IDGAF about your scores or your PC feats. The feedback section is here to make the game better and more enjoyable. Grow the **** up Hey you went low 1st you called him a racist thats 1 of the oldest, lowest, dirtiest tricks in the book and i think al sharpton beat you to the punch. Hahahahahha...ha Escrow Removal and Acquisition- Our ERA has only just begun... Gym Bro/ Meat Head -- CrossFit enthusiast
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3257	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:53:00 - [156] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Action, Demandred, don't mind them, they're just lonely. They just needed to do a little trash talking like the old days. No big deal. Come on Derrith, please explain to me how three players focusing on you, and thus making you useless is unbalanced. I am about to Hit my Shoulders and Abs, so you have all the time in the world to respond. How was game one unbalanced toward your ADS Escrow Removal and Acquisition- Our ERA has only just begun... Gym Bro/ Meat Head -- CrossFit enthusiast
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2723	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:54:00 - [157] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Action, Demandred, don't mind them, they're just lonely. They just needed to do a little trash talking like the old days. No big deal. Come on Derrith, please explain to me how three players focusing on you, and thus making you useless is unbalanced. I am about to Hit my Shoulders and Abs, so you have all the time in the world to respond. How was game one unbalanced toward your ADS Ummmmm, direct me to where I said that was unbalanced. Please, I'd love to see that. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 177	Posted - 2014.09.26 03:14:00 - [158] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Action, Demandred, don't mind them, they're just lonely. They just needed to do a little trash talking like the old days. No big deal. Come on Derrith, please explain to me how three players focusing on you, and thus making you useless is unbalanced. I am about to Hit my Shoulders and Abs, so you have all the time in the world to respond. How was game one unbalanced toward your ADS Ummmmm, direct me to where I said that was unbalanced. Please, I'd love to see that. Oh, one more thing. Seeing as you're such a beefhead, I need some good core workouts. Been trimming my love handles, got two inches off, need more oblique workouts. If ive ever seen anything more homo, why dont you just give him youre hot pickle already.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2724	Posted - 2014.09.26 03:31:00 - [159] - Quote So are you actually going to show me exactly where i said that all that AV was unbalanced Reggie? I don't have all night, so go ahead and show me where, and what page this was on. I'll look at it tomorrow, I'm going to bed. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 177	Posted - 2014.09.26 03:36:00 - [160] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: So are you actually going to show me exactly where i said that all that AV was unbalanced Reggie? I don't have all night, so go ahead and show me where, and what page this was on. I'll look at it tomorrow, I'm going to bed. Avs fine its dropships vs. vehicles thats broken now. Rattati should of never gotten rid of the rof bonus. Where the hells judge at ccp listens to him.

Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 305	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:05:00 - [161] - Quote Here is my background in Dust. 35million Lifetime skills points focused in on ADS (Python) maxed out, Proto Anti-Vehicle fits (Swarms, Proxy, Forges), Proto Assault (caldari and rail rifles), Proto Commando (gallente with AR and PLC), and ADV Scout (caldari). Also I have a lot of experiance with milita vehicles with plenty of kills with my 20G Railgun and Sica Blaster tanks. overall I feel I am pretty diverse in dust and have been playing for quite some time. My opinion: I feel that ADS is not "useless" but its in my experiance after losing tons of ADS in a few days, I feel that ADS is too weak for the current changes in Delta Patch. Here is my reasoning. 1) PRE-DELTA Anti-Vehicle Advantages that need to taken into account. AV players have several advantages that ADS pilots do not have such as the First movers advantage. We have all see plenty of evidence of rendering issues between infantry and airborne combat, which gives the AV an immediate advantage over the ADS. The AV player will always be able to fire of 1 volley and start his/her 2nd volley before the ADS pilot has identified his position due to rendering. They also have War points that ADS pilots do not get, which is a huge advantage as it give the squad tons of points to their orbitals. AV players are rewarded 75 points based on damage scaling which ADS does not get those kinds of points. Not only that the scaling on War points is vastly different... AV gets War Points based on Assists (50 WP), destruction, (150 WP), kills (per 50 WP), Damages scale (75 WP) and Intel (15 WP). While ADS only gets Assists (25 WP), Kills (per 50 WP), Vehicle Kill Assist (35 WP) and Intel (15 WP) Note: This is a scenario revolving around AV vs ADS (The AV player is not involved within Vehicles as he cannot use his AV equipment until he leaves his vehicle so Vehicle damage or destruction does not play into account in these numbers. AV players also have advantages of AI Installation support, its may seem silly but I have witness plenty of turning tides where an AI installation gets a few shots or damages a ADS a few times allowing the destruction of that vehicle. AV players also have advantages in the terrain, where players can use peek a boo tactics within buildings or bridges to hurt ADS players (again rendering and War points play additional advantages). ADS pilots cannot hide withing compounds as the walls do massive amounts of damage if they are so much as tap them, Though the ADS can gain altitude or retreat to red line the ADS has to deal with first movers advantage again to re-engage target he/she was firing at previously. Granted ADS can Lock down a Compound once within fire support range which enemies are rending and is in superior fire position but Tanks and even a well place Turret mounted LAV can do the exact same thing, so how can these vehicles used in tactical situations not be held equally accountable as the ADS? Finally AV players have a much larger target to fire upon that ADS pilots have, and this is because of how the ADS functions. A Single Infantry Unit is 1/9th the size of a Dropship, which with higher altitude (assume that player has rendering in) is even smaller from the ADS point of view. The AV's see a much larger target to spot plus the first movers advantage that AV players have over ADS pilot. 2) POST DELTA Anti-Vehicle Advantages - Note: all advantages Pre-Delta are still present Swarm buffs have allowed a stronger destructive game against ADS with increase Speed, acceleration and with the additions to nerfing the After Burner ( I think is a smart move given Swarms always were effective at nullifying and area denying ADS but not destroying, I always felt that Forge Guns and Railguns did very effective jobs destroying an ADS but swarms needed abit of buffing) The Lower ROF for Turrets (Missle's and Railgun's) for on Racial ADS have left drive by shooting to be substantially less effective than PRE-DELTA. So hit and run tactics for ADS is not an options as rendering prevents ADS pilots from see what needs to be shot leaving them to shoot blindly with a low ROF as they cannot splash damage a wide area to combat the first movers advantage. So essentially ADS cannot do Hit and Run tactics, nor can they stay stationary to allow rendering to rend in the AV players as they will lose to first movers advantage, Swarms buffs, and After Burner nerfing. (I completely disagree with ROF nerfing as I felt that it was not the true problem to ADS being so powerful PRE-DELTA. I felt that ADS was too powerful due to the bug which allow bonus python skills to stack. For me, Denying or Destroying Solo ADS pilots PRE-Delta was not a huge problem, but the additional side gunner getting the bonus for each pilots skill in the ADS allow for a devastating vehicle that was needing to be addressed. This was the wrong way to fix that issue.)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5230	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:09:00 - [162] - Quote ^ Looks like that Swarmer has every advantage over the ADS! Pre-Delta, you say!? Boggles the mind how ADS didn't drop like flies. Quite the opposite, in fact. But that can't be. AV had so many advantages. :: scratches head :: Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 305	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:12:00 - [163] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: That almost sounds like a Swarmer had advantage over an ADS! Pre-Delta, you say!? Boggles the mind how ADS didn't drop like flies. Quite the opposite, in fact. But that can't be. AV had so many advantages. :: scratches head :: granted these are advantages that needed to be taken into account during the nerf. Not advantages that make AV superior to ADS
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 305	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:15:00 - [164] - Quote additionally I wanted to include that Data and Numbers are a great source of information and even a better tool for predicting future outcomes. Unfortunately, Data is not a perfect tool to predict future outcomes as it is based on real world events which have multiple variables but only give us the information to predict a perfect world outcome. For example I suspect Data collect around ADS pilots are slightly inaccurate due to the side gunners getting additional bonus for multiple pilots within a single drop ship. That the True Data revolving around a single pilot within a ADS is slightly above balance which would have been more deserving of a lighter touch on the ROF nerfing. If the side gunners bonus have been address (still need to test that) than those numbers and data collected around ADS would probably give ADS a more proper re-balancing than get a heavy nerf stick.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 31	Posted - 2014.09.26 12:13:00 - [165] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: ^ Looks like that Swarmer has every advantage over the ADS! Pre-Delta, you say!? Boggles the mind how ADS didn't drop like flies. Quite the opposite, in fact. But that can't be. AV had so many advantages. :: scratches head :: He stated these were advantages not that it made av op pre-update. Now post-update these have become major issues. Reread it.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 161	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:53:00 - [166] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith how old are you? When you learn the difference between subjective and objective, you can come back and actually give meaningful feedback. The Feedback section is a place to make the game better Lets excuse the blatant racist remarks and overall ego trip that is your thread, and try to look at your feedback. Game One: I really don't see a problem. Four players (if you include the gorgan pilot) dedicated their roles to making you useless. How is a 4:1 ratio or even a 3:1 unbalanced to ADS pilots; especially when those players where using a hard counter towards your vehicle. I am sorry you can't drop those 20 and 30 bombs anymore . Game Two: You went 16-0... Even the opposing team switched up to counter you... militia or not. CCP don't even waste your time on this trash. blatant racism? I'm latino myself, I can get away with saying that. And I'm also sorry, that I've blown you up more times in PC than you've had kills. Oh and hate to break to your heart, but I just came out of PC against Dust Brasil ringing for NAE, dropped 20-2, so thanks for your concern, but I'm not dead yet Could you at least attempt to reasonably respond to his post? He clearly writes out what his problem with your OP was, and you completely ignore it to derail everything into a troll bickering contest. Stay on point as he did and try to keep away from the flashy words like 'racism' And he's pretty much has you, this thread is pointless. Sota, let me explain a few things to you. 1) Feedback is the new war room. As far as I'm concerned, Reggie was just feeling lonely and needed someone to talk crap to. 2) I'm supposed to act professional while he isn't? Yeah, screw that, if he's gonna talk some crap, than I don't see why I shouldn't get a little fun out of it too. 3) Racism, again, I'm Latino. 4) This thread is pointless, you have me there. Well, you would've, if this thread started around page 3. Explain things to me? There's only one section in all of the forums that is safe from us trolls, a place of haven where people can discuss game and mechanics without fear of opinions being taken to personally insulting levels. Leave it be. Forums suck enough without you trying to infect every part of it with what's bad about it. And just because discussion came from your useless thread doesn't make it anymore useless, CCP only looks at the OP, you'll need a CPM if you want CCP to notice further.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3733	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:54:00 - [167] - Quote The problem with these "advantages", is that they're all inferior advantages to everything ADSes have in their favor, but Minor Treat didn't feel like listing all of those. ;) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2729	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:58:00 - [168] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Derrith how old are you? When you learn the difference between subjective and objective, you can come back and actually give meaningful feedback. The Feedback section is a place to make the game better Lets excuse the blatant racist remarks and overall ego trip that is your thread, and try to look at your feedback. Game One: I really don't see a problem. Four players (if you include the gorgan pilot) dedicated their roles to making you useless. How is a 4:1 ratio or even a 3:1 unbalanced to ADS pilots; especially when those players where using a hard counter towards your vehicle. I am sorry you can't drop those 20 and 30 bombs anymore . Game Two: You went 16-0... Even the opposing team switched up to counter you... militia or not. CCP don't even waste your time on this trash. blatant racism? I'm latino myself, I can get away with saying that. And I'm also sorry, that I've blown you up more times in PC than you've had kills. Oh and hate to break to your heart, but I just came out of PC against Dust Brasil ringing for NAE, dropped 20-2, so thanks for your concern, but I'm not dead yet Could you at least attempt to reasonably respond to his post? He clearly writes out what his problem with your OP was, and you completely ignore it to derail everything into a troll bickering contest. Stay on point as he did and try to keep away from the flashy words like 'racism' And he's pretty much has you, this thread is pointless. Sota, let me explain a few things to you. 1) Feedback is the new war room. As far as I'm concerned, Reggie was just feeling lonely and needed someone to talk crap to. 2) I'm supposed to act professional while he isn't? Yeah, screw that, if he's gonna talk some crap, than I don't see why I shouldn't get a little fun out of it too. 3) Racism, again, I'm Latino. 4) This thread is pointless, you have me there. Well, you would've, if this thread started around page 3. Explain things to me? There's only one section in all of the forums that is safe from us trolls, a place of haven where people can discuss game and mechanics without fear of opinions being taken to personally insulting levels. Leave it be. Forums suck enough without you trying to infect every part of it with what's bad about it. And just because discussion came from your useless thread doesn't make it anymore useless, CCP only looks at the OP, you'll need a CPM if you want CCP to notice further. I'm sorry I thought I actually made this thread with the intent of discussing game mechanics. After a few matches, these were my findings. I could discuss all the other matches where I flew ADS post delta. BTW, the I'm sorry was sarcasm. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3738	Posted - 2014.09.26 14:08:00 - [169] - Quote Hey guys, I just bumped a bug thread about the ADS that got sent to me by email, it's in the Technical Support forum, is there anyone who can test it out? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=169626 CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 161	Posted - 2014.09.26 14:10:00 - [170] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: After flying a few matches in Delta, I've returned with a decent speculation and data on the ADS, and what went horribly wrong with it. My first match I played on the twin towers map. I called her in about 1/4 of the way through the match, got six kills, then came three mexicans (they were in a Latino corp) with AV to camp on said towers. two of them were forges, bad ones at that, one was a swarmer. There was also a rammer after me, but he failed miserably. After they had set up camping on the towers I was completely useless. They managed to shoot me down once, but I, being the yolfswag guy I am, called in a second one, only to be forced back to the red by the rammer, whom I shot down. And even with being rendered completely useless because of over AV, I still got hate mail (score one for weakened pilots baby)! Anyway, second match I played infinitely more cautious. I even used my pilot suit (rail rifle and two range amps works wonders). dropped 16-0 despite being hounded by militia swarms wherever I turned, which is not to say we're still OP. The swarmers were poorly positioned, I also had buildings to hide behind, add to the fact that they were militia kind of helped, even though they were spaced no less than 20 meters from each other at one point. Anyway, my review: 1) I did not see any reduction to PG/CPU or price of small turrets, and I checked. 2) The python bonus, as I predicted, is complete and utter crap, the incubus can hold more tank and even fit a better AB than the python, and all I have to sacrifice for it is a little ROF (.18 ROF, to be exact). 3) nerfing the ROF on incubus by that much, also useless. and there was also a heat increase, only 7 shots were able to come out when I used it, and it overheated. 4) I will say that AB cooldown is not as bad as I predicted, it's still pretty bad though. 5) due to the increase of acceleration and speed of swarms, ducking behind a building is pretty useless, even with the homing nerf, I can probably get maybe two to hit the side of a building if I'm lucky. Anyway, that's the review. Let me point it out again since Regynum apparently didn't get through to you - This is posted in the wrong section of the forums.

Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2729	Posted - 2014.09.26 14:15:00 - [171] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: After flying a few matches in Delta, I've returned with a decent speculation and data on the ADS, and what went horribly wrong with it. My first match I played on the twin towers map. I called her in about 1/4 of the way through the match, got six kills, then came three mexicans (they were in a Latino corp) with AV to camp on said towers. two of them were forges, bad ones at that, one was a swarmer. There was also a rammer after me, but he failed miserably. After they had set up camping on the towers I was completely useless. They managed to shoot me down once, but I, being the yolfswag guy I am, called in a second one, only to be forced back to the red by the rammer, whom I shot down. And even with being rendered completely useless because of over AV, I still got hate mail (score one for weakened pilots baby)! Anyway, second match I played infinitely more cautious. I even used my pilot suit (rail rifle and two range amps works wonders). dropped 16-0 despite being hounded by militia swarms wherever I turned, which is not to say we're still OP. The swarmers were poorly positioned, I also had buildings to hide behind, add to the fact that they were militia kind of helped, even though they were spaced no less than 20 meters from each other at one point. Anyway, my review: 1) I did not see any reduction to PG/CPU or price of small turrets, and I checked. 2) The python bonus, as I predicted, is complete and utter crap, the incubus can hold more tank and even fit a better AB than the python, and all I have to sacrifice for it is a little ROF (.18 ROF, to be exact). 3) nerfing the ROF on incubus by that much, also useless. and there was also a heat increase, only 7 shots were able to come out when I used it, and it overheated. 4) I will say that AB cooldown is not as bad as I predicted, it's still pretty bad though. 5) due to the increase of acceleration and speed of swarms, ducking behind a building is pretty useless, even with the homing nerf, I can probably get maybe two to hit the side of a building if I'm lucky. Anyway, that's the review. Let me point it out again since Regynum apparently didn't get through to you - This is posted in the wrong section of the forums. How so? Point to me exactly where discussing findings and research that I conducted is now in the wrong section of the forums. Exactly what makes this area the wrong place to put it. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 309	Posted - 2014.09.26 14:49:00 - [172] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: The problem with these "advantages", is that they're all inferior advantages to everything ADSes have in their favor, but Minor Treat didn't feel like listing all of those. ;) on the contrary I ran out of room on the post :p. Also All the advantages for the ADS is common knowledge to everyone as they are no gameplay mechanics thats unique to ADS advantages (Also that bug where pilots skills stack is an advantage ADS had but everyone knew it needed to be fixed and I included it in my list) . All the advantages the ADS has is similar to that of Tanks or well mounted LAV, with the exception that they fly. Everyone knows that they can escape battle zones by flying away, can suppress infantry and ground Vehicle Units, and transport friendlies from point A to Point B. Anti-Vehicle in the other hand have distinct advantages that are unique to ADS as it can only occurs to that of airborne vehicles. Rendering issues are not nearly as much of an issue for ground vehicles as it is for Airborne vehicles. Collision Damage is also a unique disadvantage to Airborne Vehicles. Everything I listed is specific issue revolving around ADS that needed to be taken into account during the nerf. Granted pre-Delta AV Swarms had difficult time destroying ADS but its was the Swarm alone that struggled not AV. Thats why the only AV that got buffed was the Swarm Launcher. So that means Pre Delta all the other options for AV were effective at destroying ADS but how does ADS get a nerfing while a Buffing to Swarms to balance out the game? Several AV players used Swarms as their primary AV but AV players with tons of experiance battle vehicle use various AV (Forge, Railgun, installations, ect), as a result it has become a one sided arguments without all the variables taken into account.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3744	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:06:00 - [173] - Quote Minor Treat, swarms needed a buff because they were ineffective. ADS needed a nerf because they were globally too effective. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 309	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:30:00 - [174] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Minor Treat, swarms needed a buff because they were ineffective. ADS needed a nerf because they were globally too effective. Swarms were ineffective I can agree with this. but ADS were only too effective because of the stacking bonus as I explained in the previous post. Its my theory that the data collect on ADS is inaccurate due to the skill stacking of sidegunners, not the pilots themselves.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3204	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:37:00 - [175] - Quote Minor Treat wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Minor Treat, swarms needed a buff because they were ineffective. ADS needed a nerf because they were globally too effective. Swarms were ineffective I can agree with this. but ADS were only too effective because of the stacking bonus as I explained in the previous post. Its my theory that the data collect on ADS is inaccurate due to the skill stacking of sidegunners, not the pilots themselves. When shooting down ADS I have found three-man ADS to be DEEPLY in the minority. You can count the bodies that fall out while the ADS crashes.
THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK THE BONERBOMBS 29	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:38:00 - [176] - Quote Went online today after seeing all the retards complain on the forums about the rof nerf grabbed my python got hit by swarms saw little improvement on swarms not longer able to outrun 1 volley isn't a problem more balanced now the ads are still usable no longer can one man army the lobby with the lower fire rate its seems the ads it finally balanced and all the butthurt retards complaining are the ones who spam ads or stack skills with proto xt missiles and get shot down a couple times a game Thank you CCP for finally balancing the ads there are no longer john rambo with a jetpack PROTO STOMPERS... AND ITS GONE! PROTO PAPER ADS... AND ITS GONE ROOF TOP CAMPERS DROP THE OB .....AND ITS GONE
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 309	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:46:00 - [177] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Minor Treat, swarms needed a buff because they were ineffective. ADS needed a nerf because they were globally too effective. Swarms were ineffective I can agree with this. but ADS were only too effective because of the stacking bonus as I explained in the previous post. Its my theory that the data collect on ADS is inaccurate due to the skill stacking of sidegunners, not the pilots themselves. When shooting down ADS I have found three-man ADS to be DEEPLY in the minority. You can count the bodies that fall out while the ADS crashes. Its not a popular tactics but I have gone ten times more damage with a multiple piloted dropship than single pilots dropship. two manned dropship is actually slightly more common but regardless of how common it is, the damage output from sidegunners is tremedious which has an effect on the data collected.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2731	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:47:00 - [178] - Quote THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK wrote: Went online today after seeing all the retards complain on the forums about the rof nerf grabbed my python got hit by swarms saw little improvement on swarms not longer able to outrun 1 volley isn't a problem more balanced now the ads are still usable no longer can one man army the lobby with the lower fire rate its seems the ads it finally balanced and all the butthurt retards complaining are the ones who spam ads or stack skills with proto xt missiles and get shot down a couple times a game Thank you CCP for finally balancing the ads there are no longer john rambo with a jetpack Very few ADS pilots said our ROF didn't need nerfing, but let me ask you this question. The incubus currently can tank more than python, and has instant reps over python, which does not. The ROF as it is on the python gives us an interval of 1.08 per volley. The raw ROF on the incubus is currently 1.20. Is the ROF on the python worth it? The incubus has, as of right now: Better collision damage instant reps to armor more tank than python better fitting space The ROF was the only reason to run Python. Would you run it in exchange for all those? I do, but only because I'm too lazy to make an incubus fit. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK THE BONERBOMBS 33	Posted - 2014.09.26 16:06:00 - [179] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK wrote: Went online today after seeing all the retards complain on the forums about the rof nerf grabbed my python got hit by swarms saw little improvement on swarms not longer able to outrun 1 volley isn't a problem more balanced now the ads are still usable no longer can one man army the lobby with the lower fire rate its seems the ads it finally balanced and all the butthurt retards complaining are the ones who spam ads or stack skills with proto xt missiles and get shot down a couple times a game Thank you CCP for finally balancing the ads there are no longer john rambo with a jetpack Very few ADS pilots said our ROF didn't need nerfing, but let me ask you this question. The incubus currently can tank more than python, and has instant reps over python, which does not. The ROF as it is on the python gives us an interval of 1.08 per volley. The raw ROF on the incubus is currently 1.20. Is the ROF on the python worth it? The incubus has, as of right now: Better collision damage instant reps to armor more tank than python better fitting space The ROF was the only reason to run Python. Would you run it in exchange for all those? I do, but only because I'm too lazy to make an incubus fit. Incubus useless currently all av does amour damage get hit by proto minmandos receive almost 3k damage very slow got alot hp doesn+¿t help python easier to fly shoots a little faster and doesnt get a damage bonus when you aim aim at the side engines PROTO STOMPERS... AND ITS GONE! PROTO PAPER ADS... AND ITS GONE ROOF TOP CAMPERS DROP THE OB .....AND ITS GONE
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3211	Posted - 2014.09.26 16:28:00 - [180] - Quote Plasma cannon is bonused for shields.

THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK THE BONERBOMBS 35	Posted - 2014.09.26 16:29:00 - [181] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Plasma cannon is bonused for shields. Have you ever seen some use a plasma cannon for av PROTO STOMPERS... AND ITS GONE! PROTO PAPER ADS... AND ITS GONE ROOF TOP CAMPERS DROP THE OB .....AND ITS GONE
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 309	Posted - 2014.09.26 16:31:00 - [182] - Quote THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Plasma cannon is bonused for shields. Have you ever seen some use a plasma cannon for av I use it all the time for av, I included it as part of my commando suit in my background for my original post. Having all the additional damage bonus for my Gallente Commando makes my PLC a deadly weapon for infantry and Vehicles alike.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3211	Posted - 2014.09.26 16:35:00 - [183] - Quote THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Plasma cannon is bonused for shields. Have you ever seen some use a plasma cannon for av Have you SEEN how the plasma cannon works now??? It's amazing!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5250	Posted - 2014.09.26 16:44:00 - [184] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Plasma cannon is bonused for shields. Have you ever seen some use a plasma cannon for av Have you SEEN how the plasma cannon works now??? It's amazing! Unless you're shooting it at infantry. Used to be, you could adjust aim such that arc would account for target distance. Now, it either hits the target or whizzes by him. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 309	Posted - 2014.09.26 16:47:00 - [185] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Plasma cannon is bonused for shields. Have you ever seen some use a plasma cannon for av Have you SEEN how the plasma cannon works now??? It's amazing! Unless you're shooting it at infantry. Used to be, you could adjust aim such that arc would account for target distance. Now, it either hits the target or whizzes by him. I have no problem using the PLC in Delta granted it could be a bit of a learning curve with the near projectile speed of the PLC. But I use my PLC against heavy suits which one hit kill them, or splash damage those medium and light suits hiding behind cover.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3213	Posted - 2014.09.26 16:55:00 - [186] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Plasma cannon is bonused for shields. Have you ever seen some use a plasma cannon for av Have you SEEN how the plasma cannon works now??? It's amazing! Unless you're shooting it at infantry. Used to be, you could adjust aim such that arc would account for target distance. Now, it either hits the target or whizzes by him. I aim at the ground, not the suit.
THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK THE BONERBOMBS 46	Posted - 2014.09.27 01:39:00 - [187] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: THEPIMP NAMED SLICKBACK wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Plasma cannon is bonused for shields. Have you ever seen some use a plasma cannon for av Have you SEEN how the plasma cannon works now??? It's amazing! oh yeah got a adv gal commando with 2 federation allotek plasma cannons kicks ass PROTO STOMPERS... AND ITS GONE! PROTO PAPER ADS... AND ITS GONE ROOF TOP CAMPERS DROP THE OB .....AND ITS GONE
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1727	Posted - 2014.09.27 03:33:00 - [188] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: My squad mate and I have never once failed to take out a vehicle between the two of us, tank, dropship or otherwise. He is a forge gunner and I am a wiyrikomi swarm launcher. We never found it unbalanced that the two of us could kill another player, his gunners and their vehicular equipment, it seemed quite fair. I am not saying this as an opinion on swarm buffs or dropship nerfs, but just that people need to stop saying things like "it was impossible to kill dropships before". We literally NEVER failed to take one out, together. I never had any trouble with ads when i was using my breach forgeand my friend was using his assault forge. Oj the other hand i had a friend with full mimando and swarm prodiciency to 5 that never failesd to kill his targets alone. whats the excuse that 99% of the community have? There is so much complaining but the peple complaining never specced completely into the role. You want to use swarms you need mimando 5 and swarm proficiency 5. The reality is and Judge, a cpm member has said it in his videos, that most of the times unskilled people are trying to kille fully skilled pilots. And thats when things go wrong and they get here and complain in the forums. Poor timing and poor skills equate to 0 kills. My mimando friend killa, not only because he is 100% skilled into his av weapon but because he know when to engage, which coincidently is not at first sight Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5287	Posted - 2014.09.27 14:46:00 - [189] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: My squad mate and I have never once failed to take out a vehicle between the two of us, tank, dropship or otherwise. He is a forge gunner and I am a wiyrikomi swarm launcher. We never found it unbalanced that the two of us could kill another player, his gunners and their vehicular equipment, it seemed quite fair. I am not saying this as an opinion on swarm buffs or dropship nerfs, but just that people need to stop saying things like "it was impossible to kill dropships before". We literally NEVER failed to take one out, together. I never had any trouble with ads when i was using my breach forgeand my friend was using his assault forge. Oj the other hand i had a friend with full mimando and swarm prodiciency to 5 that never failesd to kill his targets alone. whats the excuse that 99% of the community have? There is so much complaining but the peple complaining never specced completely into the role. You want to use swarms you need mimando 5 and swarm proficiency 5. The reality is and Judge, a cpm member has said it in his videos, that most of the times unskilled people are trying to kille fully skilled pilots. And thats when things go wrong and they get here and complain in the forums. Poor timing and poor skills equate to 0 kills. My mimando friend killa, not only because he is 100% skilled into his av weapon but because he know when to engage, which coincidently is not at first sight In what other instance is a weapon deadly only when wielded by a particular suit? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1730	Posted - 2014.09.27 15:02:00 - [190] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: In what other instance is a weapon deadly only when wielded by a particular suit? - Proficiency 5 Swarmer (non-Commando) In the same way that rails and missiles were only efficient, or lets say as powerful, when specced into their specific ship. An ADS pilot is a fully specialized person. If you want to kill a fully specialized person then then the fair thing to say is that you should fully specialize to kill it. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor

BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 86	Posted - 2014.09.27 16:30:00 - [191] - Quote I know that ADS were originally too fast for swarms which is why the swarms got the buff that they did. However, currently the ADS are at a huge disadvantage. Their inability to heavily tank means that the ADS are far more likely to go down to a single swarm launcher. Maybe it's just me, but if you see swarms they're guaranteed to hit you no matter what kind of evasive flying you do. Pythons are unable to resistance the missiles or forge enough and incubus may be able to armor rep tank enough to survive but chances are slim especially if there are multiple av users. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5291	Posted - 2014.09.27 17:59:00 - [192] - Quote BrotherofHavok wrote: I know that ADS were originally too fast for swarms which is why the swarms got the buff that they did. However, currently the ADS are at a huge disadvantage. Their inability to heavily tank means that the ADS are far more likely to go down to a single swarm launcher. Maybe it's just me, but if you see swarms they're guaranteed to hit you no matter what kind of evasive flying you do. Pythons are unable to resistance the missiles or forge enough and incubus may be able to armor rep tank enough to survive but chances are slim especially if there are multiple av users. A single swarmer will consistently crash a Python only if said Python lingers after being hit 3x while the Swarmer reloads (idiot pilot) or if the Python is hit by a second AV source (teamwork). Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 87	Posted - 2014.09.27 18:44:00 - [193] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: BrotherofHavok wrote: I know that ADS were originally too fast for swarms which is why the swarms got the buff that they did. However, currently the ADS are at a huge disadvantage. Their inability to heavily tank means that the ADS are far more likely to go down to a single swarm launcher. Maybe it's just me, but if you see swarms they're guaranteed to hit you no matter what kind of evasive flying you do. Pythons are unable to resistance the missiles or forge enough and incubus may be able to armor rep tank enough to survive but chances are slim especially if there are multiple av users. A single swarmer will consistently crash a Python only if said Python lingers after being hit 3x while the Swarmer reloads (idiot pilot) or if the Python is hit by a second AV source (teamwork). Are you sure? A few times that my python was taken own was due to a single swarm launcher and i'm not sure if he/she had to reload. As for being an idiot and sitting there i might be accused of doing so but that's only for the first shot. Most of the time the swarm launcher player and the swarms themselves won't become visible (latency issues) until after they hit me and they'll usually do about 1000 points of damage or more to my shields with just the 1 set of 4 swarms. The 2nd set is sure to hit me because i'm just pulling away and the 3rd set is almost sure to hit as well as long as there isn't any kind of lock on issues plaguing the enemy player. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5291	Posted - 2014.09.27 19:18:00 - [194] - Quote BrotherofHavok wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: BrotherofHavok wrote: I know that ADS were originally too fast for swarms which is why the swarms got the buff that they did. However, currently the ADS are at a huge disadvantage. Their inability to heavily tank means that the ADS are far more likely to go down to a single swarm launcher. Maybe it's just me, but if you see swarms they're guaranteed to hit you no matter what kind of evasive flying you do. Pythons are unable to resistance the missiles or forge enough and incubus may be able to armor rep tank enough to survive but chances are slim especially if there are multiple av users. A single swarmer will consistently crash a Python only if said Python lingers after being hit 3x while the Swarmer reloads (idiot pilot) or if the Python is hit by a second AV source (teamwork). Are you sure? A few times that my python was taken own was due to a single swarm launcher and i'm not sure if he/she had to reload. As for being an idiot and sitting there i might be accused of doing so but that's only for the first shot. Most of the time the swarm launcher player and the swarms themselves won't become visible (latency issues) until after they hit me and they'll usually do about 1000 points of damage or more to my shields with just the 1 set of 4 swarms. The 2nd set is sure to hit me because i'm just pulling away and the 3rd set is almost sure to hit as well as long as there isn't any kind of lock on issues plaguing the enemy player. No offense intended. Assuming optimal conditions, a clever swarmer may get 3 volleys onto target even if the pilot responds when first struck. The "idiot" in this scenario is the pilot who gets hit with those 3 volleys, then lingers about while the swarmer reloads, relocks and proceeds to place a 4th volley. The majority of Pythons I've encountered require 4+ volleys. Whether or not all Pythons require 4+ volleys I cannot say. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3254	Posted - 2014.09.27 19:20:00 - [195] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: BrotherofHavok wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: BrotherofHavok wrote: I know that ADS were originally too fast for swarms which is why the swarms got the buff that they did. However, currently the ADS are at a huge disadvantage. Their inability to heavily tank means that the ADS are far more likely to go down to a single swarm launcher. Maybe it's just me, but if you see swarms they're guaranteed to hit you no matter what kind of evasive flying you do. Pythons are unable to resistance the missiles or forge enough and incubus may be able to armor rep tank enough to survive but chances are slim especially if there are multiple av users. A single swarmer will consistently crash a Python only if said Python lingers after being hit 3x while the Swarmer reloads (idiot pilot) or if the Python is hit by a second AV source (teamwork). Are you sure? A few times that my python was taken own was due to a single swarm launcher and i'm not sure if he/she had to reload. As for being an idiot and sitting there i might be accused of doing so but that's only for the first shot. Most of the time the swarm launcher player and the swarms themselves won't become visible (latency issues) until after they hit me and they'll usually do about 1000 points of damage or more to my shields with just the 1 set of 4 swarms. The 2nd set is sure to hit me because i'm just pulling away and the 3rd set is almost sure to hit as well as long as there isn't any kind of lock on issues plaguing the enemy player. No offense intended. The "idiot" in this scenario is the pilot who gets hit with an entire clip then lingers about which the swarmer reloads, relocks and proceeds to place a 4th volley. The majority of Pythons I've encountered require 4+ volleys. Whether or not all Pythons require 4+ volleys I cannot say. You're going to get variance based on skill levels, and what modules the pilot has to sacrifice to make his playstyle viable. ALMOST all pythons take 4 shots from pro swarms. Just like ALMOST all ADS take three shots from an assault forge proto, PERIOD.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5291	Posted - 2014.09.27 19:22:00 - [196] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You're going to get variance based on skill levels, and what modules the pilot has to sacrifice to make his playstyle viable. ALMOST all pythons take 4 shots from pro swarms. Just like ALMOST all ADS take three shots from an assault forge proto, PERIOD. I have no reason to doubt this as factual. Again, my perspectives and experiences are limited to the Pythons I've encountered and engaged; I've yet to crash a single ADS of any kind with 3 proto volleys ... since 1.7 at least. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
a brackers Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 79	Posted - 2014.09.27 20:00:00 - [197] - Quote Ok try this on for size. The reason the ads was nerfed was because whatever bugged numbers rattati and the cpm were using, they apparently (although suspiciously these are the only numbers I've ever seen ccp witheld) ads's are AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE more COST EFFECTIVE and PROFITABLE than ANY other role. Please get in an ads or ask anyone who has flown one. They are not in any way profitable or cost effective. FULL STOP Proto dropship pilot The sandbox shooter
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3255	Posted - 2014.09.27 20:17:00 - [198] - Quote a brackers wrote: Ok try this on for size. The reason the ads was nerfed was because whatever bugged numbers rattati and the cpm were using, they apparently (although suspiciously these are the only numbers I've ever seen ccp witheld) ads's are AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE more COST EFFECTIVE and PROFITABLE than ANY other role. Please get in an ads or ask anyone who has flown one. They are not in any way profitable or cost effective. FULL STOP The reason was 2 second TTK on brick sentinels is too fast. That makes killing regular infantry trivial. More later. But if it was orders of magnitude more profitable he would have raised the hull cost, not lowered.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 312	Posted - 2014.09.28 17:10:00 - [199] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: BrotherofHavok wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: BrotherofHavok wrote: I know that ADS were originally too fast for swarms which is why the swarms got the buff that they did. However, currently the ADS are at a huge disadvantage. Their inability to heavily tank means that the ADS are far more likely to go down to a single swarm launcher. Maybe it's just me, but if you see swarms they're guaranteed to hit you no matter what kind of evasive flying you do. Pythons are unable to resistance the missiles or forge enough and incubus may be able to armor rep tank enough to survive but chances are slim especially if there are multiple av users. A single swarmer will consistently crash a Python only if said Python lingers after being hit 3x while the Swarmer reloads (idiot pilot) or if the Python is hit by a second AV source (teamwork). Are you sure? A few times that my python was taken own was due to a single swarm launcher and i'm not sure if he/she had to reload. As for being an idiot and sitting there i might be accused of doing so but that's only for the first shot. Most of the time the swarm launcher player and the swarms themselves won't become visible (latency issues) until after they hit me and they'll usually do about 1000 points of damage or more to my shields with just the 1 set of 4 swarms. The 2nd set is sure to hit me because i'm just pulling away and the 3rd set is almost sure to hit as well as long as there isn't any kind of lock on issues plaguing the enemy player. No offense intended. Assuming optimal conditions, a clever swarmer may get 3 volleys onto target even if the pilot responds when first struck. The "idiot" in this scenario is the pilot who gets hit with those 3 volleys, then lingers about while the swarmer reloads, relocks and proceeds to place a 4th volley. The majority of Pythons I've encountered require 4+ volleys. Whether or not all Pythons require 4+ volleys I cannot say. well if it takes four volleys than you are either using a basic or militia swarm launcher. advance swarms either destroy or damn near destroy ADS, Proto Swarms are a going to kill a python is three shots unless he is hardened or using boosters shields. In those cases he had properly manage his modules to increase his survival.
wripple WarRavens Capital Punishment. 218	Posted - 2014.09.28 17:57:00 - [200] - Quote All the more proof that this once promising game's biggest fault is the simple fact that its key developers do not play it, or at least not nearly enough to justify producing it. What we have are professional starship makers giving us an FPS that is ultimately the same dry game we've been playing for almost 3 years now.

Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 312	Posted - 2014.09.28 18:07:00 - [201] - Quote wripple wrote: All the more proof that this once promising game's biggest fault is the simple fact that its key developers do not play it, or at least not nearly enough to justify producing it. What we have are professional starship makers giving us an FPS that is ultimately the same dry game we've been playing for almost 3 years now. everything will be okay my mercenary buddy (patting on the back) we all know this but we are still here though. Its like being abused except we like it.
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 88	Posted - 2014.09.28 20:14:00 - [202] - Quote Minor Treat wrote: wripple wrote: All the more proof that this once promising game's biggest fault is the simple fact that its key developers do not play it, or at least not nearly enough to justify producing it. What we have are professional starship makers giving us an FPS that is ultimately the same dry game we've been playing for almost 3 years now. everything will be okay my mercenary buddy (patting on the back) we all know this but we are still here though. Its like being abused except we like it. its a love hate relationship. Or an abusive one. We know what will come, we can't avoid it, but we go back all the same... (drink from bottle of tequila) Now if you'll excuse me, i'm going to go watch the whooping lama part of monty python for a few hours while I fly my python in dust. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Logical Logi Immortal Guides 6	Posted - 2014.09.28 21:42:00 - [203] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Derrith can I have your input on something, please? I want to get this idea to gain in popularity: Scrubbing swarms. Let's say there was a way to make swarms lose tracking through a scrubbing motion or by making them bend beyond their ability to turn. How do you feel about the idea and how could we go about balancing it? I find it boring when I am forced to sit out for 45 seconds waiting for my hardners to come back before getting back into the fight, only the be instantly chased away again by the same swarmer that I cannot find. If instead I was able to scrub the missiles I would actually be doing something other then sitting and waiting to re-engage. You mean techniques to make swarms go off target? Perhaps, but I honestly don't know how you'd go about this, so I'm afraid I cannot any decent insight. I do enjoy the idea however, would give us more to do than duck behind a building and hope for the best. I tested the theory CCP presented that we need to turn away from swarms more to dodge them. Here are my results: -I begin to make very short and sharp turns at top speed -Swarms follow closely -I then drop, very dramatically in altitude -Swarms beat me down I personally think that facing down and going full speed into the earth counts as turning because it is the same motion in a different direction yet it does not apply. I also had the same problem. A full Squad of AV with 1 Swarm on each tower (6 tower map) and I was rendered to backflips, frontflips, and spinning endlessly in the redline. Not only has CCP made Swarming easy, they have given more courage to swarmers who now spam matches as much aas possible with AV. So far I've played 3 matches with 6 or more AV personell. The rest were 3 or less. Director of Planetary Operations and General recruitment for Immortal Guides.


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