While there's no substitute for skill, I don't see how the success of FOUR people dedicated to neutralizing him, regardless of any skill deficit, indicates any problem with ADS'.

I used my Mimando in a PC yesterday. Fit:

Commando MK.0 (Lvl 5)
Enhanced Light Damage Mod
Basic Shield Recharger
State Wyrkomi Swarm Launcher (Proficiency 2)
'Fearcrop' Boundless Combat Rifle
K2 Nanohive
Enhanced Kincat
Basic Armor Repper

I was at enemy home point when a Python was called in right in front of me, hostile. I let lose 2 volleys that hit him before he cut his afterburner, and then let my 3rdvolley as he approached top speed away from me. My swarms ACTUALLY caught up to him...I don't know how I feel about that. Yes, I'm happy I can effectively engage AV, but I feel that the Top Speed of swarms should be dialed back down to 50 m/s, the same top speed as a Python. The Acceleration allows the Swarms to near the target quicker, allowing for less reaction time, so if a Pilot does cut on an AB, my swarms are closer than previously. Having 60 m/s however means my swarms are gaining on the ADS/ pilot even at their top speed, which I feel isn't fair.

The ADS is still deadly however, as DarkLucas showed me. I believe a slight tune up of 5% per level is more fair. Pilots I talked to agreed they were very powerful, and they would have accepted even a 30%, 40% nerf, but 70% is just overboard

TDLR: Swarm Top Speed lessened to Charlie stats
ADSs have a ROF bonus of 5 percent per level, increase if needed

07

GVGMode, you can spot an ADS from a long distance, but you need a vehicle of your own to keep up with one or get in range of one. Swarms have a pitifully short lock range, and the forge is still a far superior AV.

GVGMode, you can spot an ADS from a long distance, but you need a vehicle of your own to keep up with one or get in range of one. Swarms have a pitifully short lock range, and the forge is still a far superior AV.

There is an obvious difference from what AV should do, I believe the AV player main goal is to vehicle lock a part of the map and that going around the map chasing phantoms makes him useless if there are several vehicles users, given that in most maps there are hight positions that could be impossible to reach without a dropship and that are able to cover the air space of several objectives.

The lock range may be short but swarms will follow you unlike forge gun shots.

Just my opinion about the matter,

GVGMODE, why should ADSes be able to kill infantry if infantry can't kill ADSes? Why is the main goal of every class to generally kill other players, but you think people shouldn't be able to kill you?

GVGMODE, why should ADSes be able to kill infantry if infantry can't kill ADSes? Why is the main goal of every class to generally kill other players, but you think people shouldn't be able to kill you?

GVGMODE, why should ADSes be able to kill infantry if infantry can't kill ADSes? Why is the main goal of every class to generally kill other players, but you think people shouldn't be able to kill you?

You can kill the swarm gunner.

Something requiring skill or not is not a balance consideration.

Does it work yes/no

Does it always work without fail? Yes/no

Does it have an effective counter? Yes/no

This elitist BS about only tactics that require "skill" being valid ones is crap. If it works it should be used. Just because you're butthurt about fire and forget does not invalidate it as a tactical or balance consideration.

Skill is relative and subject to extremes of one's opinion.

Numbers matter. Your assessment of skill does not.

Usually you're sent running after one volley now bring your ads near an mko commando that knows where to position himself I'll be happy to show you. 15 hours of trying different fits shows me the advantage is drastically in favor of swarms and no where near balanced. NO SKILL WEAPON AUTO LOCK FTW sounds so fair.

You're angry that rock doesn't have an equal chance of killing paper? I'm not saying changes don't need to be made, but your expectations seem ridiculous...

Have you tried carrying a passenger in your dropship, and you know, DROPPING them off on the swarmer's head?

It isn't that people shouldn't be able to shoot down an ads but that an ads can't even defend itself against swarms. A swarmer can defend himself against infantry though. How is this fair at all.

uhhhhhhhh...... you can. It is completely possible to kill us.

Something requiring skill or not is not a balance consideration.

Does it work yes/no

Does it always work without fail? Yes/no

Does it have an effective counter? Yes/no

This elitist BS about only tactics that require "skill" being valid ones is crap. If it works it should be used. Just because you're butthurt about fire and forget does not invalidate it as a tactical or balance consideration.

Skill is relative and subject to extremes of one's opinion.

Numbers matter. Your assessment of skill does not.

A swarmer can't defend himself against infantry, unless he's a commando or is particularly good with a sidearm. Swarms are the only weapon that can't shoot infantry, making them by far the most crippled weapon in the game. And until yesterday, they couldn't kill vehicles either.

Meanwhile, most people can't defend themselves from an ADS. You cry about your poor ADS, as you one or two shot an assault rifle that literally has nothing that can even do damage to you. Yet an ADS can damage every single player in the game.



Now it is, for the first time since 1.7 released.

Guys, we should be discussing ways to make balance again, not just argue with them. Raise the bonus slightly Rattati, see if they engage it more.

The thing is, we are probably much more balanced now. ADS pilots aren't looking for balance.

But it's going to be a few days until there's enough good data on Delta to figure out where balance lies. People need to chill out.