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Review for ADS post delta

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3594	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:14:00 - [1] - Quote If you managed 16/0 on your second match, sounds like you're still more than adequately powerful, given the extreme rarity I can get anywhere NEAR doing 16/0 on the ground. o_O Glad to hear you actually lost a dropship in a pub match. Hotfix working as intended. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3594	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:27:00 - [2] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: But Derrith is a beast on the ground too. Should we nerf all the stuff he uses because you can't reproduce his results? Realistically, nerfs and buffs are based on game-wide statistics. Not Derrith's usage. I would maybe follow around Derrith with a nerfbat, but CCP Rattati wouldn't. He likes numbers. :) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3595	Posted - 2014.09.24 19:36:00 - [3] - Quote Really don't have a particular bias against the ADS, I actually argued against them removing it when they removed most of the other variants. But it was also really really OP by the numbers. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3643	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:13:00 - [4] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Still strange Judge isn't around during this. Convenient timing. It'd be really nice if he was here. I usually don't agree with him, but he has a lot of logic to his arguments, and I think he would really raise the bar on the ADS side of the debate if he were around. Because a lot of the statements are anecdotal, which isn't useful. Judge is really great at testing and crunching the numbers. And having him around would really centralize the debate on the facts. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3648	Posted - 2014.09.25 02:55:00 - [5] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Then you should have brought this to the community at least so we could debate. Numbers are great, but real world use is where its at. CCP Rattati didn't run it by us, I don't think. I think if he did, I'd remember it. Or I'm absent-minded, also possible. Kallas Hallytyr wrote: TL;DR: Incubus ROF is bugged and applying at a 1.15 ratio instead of a 0.85, meaning the Incubus's railgun is firing slower than the regular railgun This sounds like a testable bug. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3675	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:59:00 - [6] - Quote Espeon Bons wrote: It's beyond annoying to skill into something, dedicate time, effort and ISK into becoming decent in the craft to have it become complete garbage from one day to the other. Only an idiot would ever go lvl 5 in caldari/gallente assault dropships because the skill is a joke. 15% rof @ lvl 5 that's about as useless as dropsuit command 5. But what am I ranting about? Flying ADS takes no skill. Aiming and flying is EASY. It takes alot of skill to lock on and shoot swarms that THE GAME AIMS AND TRACKS FOR YOU. Keep up the good work. :) the "numbers" will really be good when "they" turn to 0. Yes, I understand that pain. I had Proficiency 4 in Swarm Launchers, along with Rapid Reload 4 and such. They've been literally unable to kill anything in the game since 1.7. It's really nice CCP has made them worthwhile again. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3683	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:53:00 - [7] - Quote GVGMode, you can spot an ADS from a long distance, but you need a vehicle of your own to keep up with one or get in range of one. Swarms have a pitifully short lock range, and the forge is still a far superior AV. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3686	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:22:00 - [8] - Quote GVGMODE, why should ADSes be able to kill infantry if infantry can't kill ADSes? Why is the main goal of every class to generally kill other players, but you think people shouldn't be able to kill you? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3690	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:52:00 - [9] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: It isn't that people shouldn't be able to shoot down an ads but that an ads can't even defend itself against swarms. A swarmer can defend himself against infantry though. How is this fair at all. A swarmer can't defend himself against infantry, unless he's a commando or is particularly good with a sidearm. Swarms are the only weapon that can't shoot infantry, making them by far the most crippled weapon in the game. And until yesterday, they couldn't kill vehicles either. Meanwhile, most people can't defend themselves from an ADS. You cry about your poor ADS, as you one or two shot an assault rifle that literally has nothing that can even do damage to you. Yet an ADS can damage every single player in the game. Derrith Erador wrote: uhhhhhhhh...... you can. It is completely possible to kill us. Now it is, for the first time since 1.7 released. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3694	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:10:00 - [10] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Guys, we should be discussing ways to make balance again, not just argue with them. Raise the bonus slightly Rattati, see if they engage it more. The thing is, we are probably much more balanced now. ADS pilots aren't looking for balance. But it's going to be a few days until there's enough good data on Delta to figure out where balance lies. People need to chill out. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3700	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:32:00 - [11] - Quote La Lore Sleipnier wrote: And the nerf of a 70% in a VERY expensibe skill is not a joke, is a bullshit. Very expensive skills like weapon proficiencies (5x, I believe) offer like 3% damage increase per level. Rate of fire is fairly comparable to damage. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3700	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:35:00 - [12] - Quote Standard forge guns are superior to swarms in almost every way. 1. They do more damage. 2. They're a lot more likely to actually hit their target. 3. They hit faster. 4. They can fire further. 5. They can't be outrun or dodged. 6. They can be charged behind cover (unlike swarms requiring line of sight to lock). CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:38:00 - [13] - Quote Espeon Bons wrote: Do you even ADS? Do you even AV? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:42:00 - [14] - Quote Espeon Bons wrote: Yes, the best way to find balance is by nerfing X and buffing Y. When both x and y directly affect each other. Thus nerfing X (bringing it to the level of y) and then buffing y(putting Y over the new level of X) creates balance. I mean only an idiot would either nerf one OR buff the other. Doing nerf and buffs together is always the best. I mean its simple math that a plus and a minus = a minus The problem was that X and Y were so ridiculously far apart, that nerfing X and buffing Y was the only reasonable way to bring them anywhere close together. o.O Because just doing one or the other either wouldn't be strong enough or would have to be such a strong nerf or buff it would break other things. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3709	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:56:00 - [15] - Quote For a few months I did almost nothing but swarm-based AV, until 1.7 when they stopped being able to damage... anything really. Vehicles were still overbearingly unmanageable, so I moved into forges for AV, and I was amazed at all of the advantages. Even with swarms being buffed as they are, I will still likely favor forges. Though I'm trying to get some good swarm testing in. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3711	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:08:00 - [16] - Quote There's actually a lot of skill in figuring out how to hit dropships with swarms without hitting buildings. Forges are a lot easier, since you just point and shoot. Swarms require like... some basic understanding of geometry. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3712	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:09:00 - [17] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Wasn't Judge having some internet troubles? Yeah, I didn't think it would be this long, I'm not sure what's up with that. It'd be really helpful if he was around for this stuff, rather than just the "nerf vehicles" CPM member. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3712	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:24:00 - [18] - Quote Vulpes, what you're shrugging off as "navigation mishaps" is the primary limitation of swarms. Around a city socket, you can assume half of all swarms will miss. And swarms should be the best AV weapon, theoretically, since they completely sacrifice anti-infantry capability, unlike the forge. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3713	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:59:00 - [19] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: I killed most everything with swarms and av Nades pre update. Again your personal skull is not a bases for balancing hard numbers. Thankfully, the game was balanced for Hotfix Delta based on hard numbers and statistics, not my personal skill. :) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3714	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:06:00 - [20] - Quote We're both discussing our personal opinions, really. The fact that the ADS was statistically OP isn't really debatable. It's a fact. But we don't have statistics yet for Delta, so there's no facts to be had yet. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3716	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:11:00 - [21] - Quote Cross and IWS have both been posting actively on the forums today. Judge is unfortunately unavailable right now, which sucks. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3717	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:30:00 - [22] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: We're both discussing our personal opinions, really. The fact that the ADS was statistically OP isn't really debatable. It's a fact. But we don't have statistics yet for Delta, so there's no facts to be had yet. I did agree with that earlier, it was op. But It Is The Worst Thing IN THE Game Now Based On Sp Spent vs. Effectiveness and this unique aspect of the game is why many people even still play. Not all by any means but you can see what I'm getting at. I Shouldn't be capable of going 30-3 in a bpo and lose every ads I call in while killing four to ten. I lost more money than before the price was reduced and could hardly break even on kd flying. I was paid to fly in pc ive done it for a while. Effectiveness for the ISK cost is actually something CCP can determine with the aforementioned statistics. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3717	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:19:00 - [23] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: We're both discussing our personal opinions, really. The fact that the ADS was statistically OP isn't really debatable. It's a fact. But we don't have statistics yet for Delta, so there's no facts to be had yet. Dont say it was op,nothings absolute. In some scenarios it may be op but in others like small maps its nowhere near op. Just look at some of the small maps, redline installations reach you no matter where youre at, so some maps are unplayabe in an ads. It was factually OP. It really isn't a debatable thing. The statistics are staggering, and CCP Rattati lays it down here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2371528#post2371528 and here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2361400#post2361400 I wish the actual numbers were public, but the fact that they aren't does not make them less true. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3733	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:54:00 - [24] - Quote The problem with these "advantages", is that they're all inferior advantages to everything ADSes have in their favor, but Minor Treat didn't feel like listing all of those. ;) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3738	Posted - 2014.09.26 14:08:00 - [25] - Quote Hey guys, I just bumped a bug thread about the ADS that got sent to me by email, it's in the Technical Support forum, is there anyone who can test it out? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=169626 CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3744	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:06:00 - [26] - Quote Minor Treat, swarms needed a buff because they were ineffective. ADS needed a nerf because they were globally too effective. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

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