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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2283	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:23:00 - [91] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: My squad mate and I have never once failed to take out a vehicle between the two of us, tank, dropship or otherwise. He is a forge gunner and I am a wiyrikomi swarm launcher. We never found it unbalanced that the two of us could kill another player, his gunners and their vehicular equipment, it seemed quite fair. I am not saying this as an opinion on swarm buffs or dropship nerfs, but just that people need to stop saying things like "it was impossible to kill dropships before". We literally NEVER failed to take one out, together. I ran an ADS for the first time (well there may have been a couple of attempts that ended up in me suiciding while I figured out the controls--I'd rather not talk about it), a few days before the patch hit. I had multiple guys trying to swarm me and I managed to get away every time. I even managed to get a kill with my STD turret. I am a hilariously TERRIBLE pilot. I should have been killed, but the afterburner is like a magic get-out-of-trouble button. If I were playing infantry as badly as I was piloting, I would have been massacred. I'm not saying all of the changes are perfect, but swarms should be an effective counter to dropships, that means killing them and not just chasing them off for a few seconds. I could see increasing lock times on swarms a bit, further reducing swarm agility, while maintaining current acceleration and speed, etc. Best PvE idea ever!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5212	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:23:00 - [92] - Quote a brackers wrote: 1) Are you kidding me. Any time two mlt swarmers were on the field ourv ships died. 2) Now it takes one mlt swarmer. 1) Bullsh!t. 2) Bullsh!t. Why make stuff up? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:27:00 - [93] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: It isn't that people shouldn't be able to shoot down an ads but that an ads can't even defend itself against swarms. A swarmer can defend himself against infantry though. How is this fair at all. A swarmer can't defend himself against infantry, unless he's a commando or is particularly good with a sidearm. Swarms are the only weapon that can't shoot infantry, making them by far the most crippled weapon in the game. And until yesterday, they couldn't kill vehicles either. Meanwhile, most people can't defend themselves from an ADS. You cry about your poor ADS, as you one or two shot an assault rifle that literally has nothing that can even do damage to you. Yet an ADS can damage every single player in the game. Derrith Erador wrote: uhhhhhhhh...... you can. It is completely possible to kill us. Now it is, for the first time since 1.7 released. I always liked swarms over forge, I don't play commando only role I don't use. I can almost always defend myself. To say you can't is ludicrous. I DO and everyone I play with does.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2714	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:32:00 - [94] - Quote Shotty you available right now? The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3700	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:32:00 - [95] - Quote La Lore Sleipnier wrote: And the nerf of a 70% in a VERY expensibe skill is not a joke, is a bullshit. Very expensive skills like weapon proficiencies (5x, I believe) offer like 3% damage increase per level. Rate of fire is fairly comparable to damage. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3700	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:35:00 - [96] - Quote Standard forge guns are superior to swarms in almost every way. 1. They do more damage. 2. They're a lot more likely to actually hit their target. 3. They hit faster. 4. They can fire further. 5. They can't be outrun or dodged. 6. They can be charged behind cover (unlike swarms requiring line of sight to lock). CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5213	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:36:00 - [97] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Shotty you available right now? Yep. Signing on. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:41:00 - [98] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: La Lore Sleipnier wrote: And the nerf of a 70% in a VERY expensibe skill is not a joke, is a bullshit. Very expensive skills like weapon proficiencies (5x, I believe) offer like 3% damage increase per level. Rate of fire is fairly comparable to damage. Have prof 5 weapons. Not comparable to rof you even fly bro? Can't defend yourself in a swarm suit, can't go 16 and 0.... I like the idea of increased lock on time. Swarms should be able to take out ads but ads should be able to fight back with reasonable confidence. Maybe raise rof to 5%, afterburners are fine, maybe reconsider 500 shield buff. Those few things may make ads more viable without it being op.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:43:00 - [99] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Standard forge guns are superior to swarms in almost every way. 1. They do more damage. 2. They're a lot more likely to actually hit their target. 3. They hit faster. 4. They can fire further. 5. They can't be outrun or dodged. 6. They can be charged behind cover (unlike swarms requiring line of sight to lock). Can dodge, swarms can almost never be out ran, well positioned swarms can be hard to hit even while locking on. Must run after first volley but you can fight a forge gunner due to agility of the ads.
a brackers Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 76	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:01:00 - [100] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: a brackers wrote: 1) Are you kidding me. Any time two mlt swarmers were on the field ourv ships died. 2) Now it takes one mlt swarmer. 1) Bullsh!t. 2) Bullsh!t. Why make stuff up? Why would I make stuff up. If I bothered to get a hdmi record box to show you but I can't be bothered. Proto dropship pilot The sandbox shooter

Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:29:00 - [101] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Standard forge guns are superior to swarms in almost every way. 1. They do more damage. 2. They're a lot more likely to actually hit their target. 3. They hit faster. 4. They can fire further. 5. They can't be outrun or dodged. 6. They can be charged behind cover (unlike swarms requiring line of sight to lock). Do you even ADS? Follow your bliss!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:38:00 - [102] - Quote Espeon Bons wrote: Do you even ADS? Do you even AV? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:39:00 - [103] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Guys, we should be discussing ways to make balance again, not just argue with them. Raise the bonus slightly Rattati, see if they engage it more. The thing is, we are probably much more balanced now. ADS pilots aren't looking for balance. But it's going to be a few days until there's enough good data on Delta to figure out where balance lies. People need to chill out. Yes, the best way to find balance is by nerfing X and buffing Y. When both x and y directly affect each other. Thus nerfing X (bringing it to the level of y) and then buffing y(putting Y over the new level of X) creates balance. I mean only an idiot would either nerf one OR buff the other. Doing nerf and buffs together is always the best. I mean its simple math that a plus and a minus = a minus Follow your bliss!
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:40:00 - [104] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Espeon Bons wrote: Do you even ADS? Do you even AV? I certainly do and by the leaderboards I've got way more experience in this game than you. Follow your bliss!
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:42:00 - [105] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Espeon Bons wrote: Do you even ADS? Do you even AV? And answering a question with a question shows you have no idea wtf you're talking about. Follow your bliss!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:42:00 - [106] - Quote Espeon Bons wrote: Yes, the best way to find balance is by nerfing X and buffing Y. When both x and y directly affect each other. Thus nerfing X (bringing it to the level of y) and then buffing y(putting Y over the new level of X) creates balance. I mean only an idiot would either nerf one OR buff the other. Doing nerf and buffs together is always the best. I mean its simple math that a plus and a minus = a minus The problem was that X and Y were so ridiculously far apart, that nerfing X and buffing Y was the only reasonable way to bring them anywhere close together. o.O Because just doing one or the other either wouldn't be strong enough or would have to be such a strong nerf or buff it would break other things. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2714	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:45:00 - [107] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Espeon Bons wrote: Do you even ADS? Do you even AV? Yes I do actually. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3709	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:56:00 - [108] - Quote For a few months I did almost nothing but swarm-based AV, until 1.7 when they stopped being able to damage... anything really. Vehicles were still overbearingly unmanageable, so I moved into forges for AV, and I was amazed at all of the advantages. Even with swarms being buffed as they are, I will still likely favor forges. Though I'm trying to get some good swarm testing in. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
La Lore Sleipnier THE PR0T0TYPE 103	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:58:00 - [109] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: La Lore Sleipnier wrote: And the nerf of a 70% in a VERY expensibe skill is not a joke, is a bullshit. Very expensive skills like weapon proficiencies (5x, I believe) offer like 3% damage increase per level. Rate of fire is fairly comparable to damage. x5 not x8 like the Caldari ADS ROF. Ok, reduce the cost from x8 to x5 and change ROF for damage. And remember, the skim that increase the damage of ADS turrets increase 2% not 3% like weapons proficiencies. The problem here is what a noob pretend kill an ADS with militia swarmlauncher Soy una hoja al viento a merced de los elementos... https://dust514.com/recruit/MfQjol/
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:02:00 - [110] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Espeon Bons wrote: It's beyond annoying to skill into something, dedicate time, effort and ISK into becoming decent in the craft to have it become complete garbage from one day to the other. Only an idiot would ever go lvl 5 in caldari/gallente assault dropships because the skill is a joke. 15% rof @ lvl 5 that's about as useless as dropsuit command 5. But what am I ranting about? Flying ADS takes no skill. Aiming and flying is EASY. It takes alot of skill to lock on and shoot swarms that THE GAME AIMS AND TRACKS FOR YOU. Keep up the good work. :) the "numbers" will really be good when "they" turn to 0. Yes, I understand that pain. I had Proficiency 4 in Swarm Launchers, along with Rapid Reload 4 and such. They've been literally unable to kill anything in the game since 1.7. It's really nice CCP has made them worthwhile again. Really theres a learning curve for swarms? It's not like the ADS where any moron can jump in and missiles auto lock on and do damage? #noanoaimnotrackingskillrequired Follow your bliss!

Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 267	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:05:00 - [111] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Espeon Bons wrote: Yes, the best way to find balance is by nerfing X and buffing Y. When both x and y directly affect each other. Thus nerfing X (bringing it to the level of y) and then buffing y(putting Y over the new level of X) creates balance. I mean only an idiot would either nerf one OR buff the other. Doing nerf and buffs together is always the best. I mean its simple math that a plus and a minus = a minus The problem was that X and Y were so ridiculously far apart, that nerfing X and buffing Y was the only reasonable way to bring them anywhere close together. o.O Because just doing one or the other either wouldn't be strong enough or would have to be such a strong nerf or buff it would break other things. Ridiculously far apart? Do you even play dust514? Follow your bliss!
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 664	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:07:00 - [112] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Still strange Judge isn't around during this. Convenient timing. It'd be really nice if he was here. I usually don't agree with him, but he has a lot of logic to his arguments, and I think he would really raise the bar on the ADS side of the debate if he were around. Because a lot of the statements are anecdotal, which isn't useful. Judge is really great at testing and crunching the numbers. And having him around would really centralize the debate on the facts. Wasn't Judge having some internet troubles? On topic - flying my ADS (very minimal skilled into vehicles. not a good pilot. don't claim to be one. I just use it to clear things at get +5's): I noticed a huge surge of AV now. People are a lot less afraid to bring out AV. At least this has been my impression based on, like 2 battles.... thousands of tons of grains of salt bounce everywhere I gotta say, I'm much more confident in flying my normal dropships in to support my team though! Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3711	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:08:00 - [113] - Quote There's actually a lot of skill in figuring out how to hit dropships with swarms without hitting buildings. Forges are a lot easier, since you just point and shoot. Swarms require like... some basic understanding of geometry. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3712	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:09:00 - [114] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Wasn't Judge having some internet troubles? Yeah, I didn't think it would be this long, I'm not sure what's up with that. It'd be really helpful if he was around for this stuff, rather than just the "nerf vehicles" CPM member. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2139	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:12:00 - [115] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: For a few months I did almost nothing but swarm-based AV, until 1.7 when they stopped being able to damage... anything really. Vehicles were still overbearingly unmanageable, so I moved into forges for AV, and I was amazed at all of the advantages. Even with swarms being buffed as they are, I will still likely favor forges. Though I'm trying to get some good swarm testing in. The problem in 1.7 was the hardening (shield) and repair (armor) capabilities of vehicles, which have been adjusted to more reasonable levels. Forges are better because they provide tank-grade alpha damage to anything you can point it at. They are highly player-skill intensive, especially at longer ranges. Because of this, and some of their drawback such as the need of a heavy suit w/ low mobility, they deserve to be the top-tier infantry AV. Though swarms do a bit less damage, but are more reliable because, outside of navigation mishaps, they're almost guaranteed to hit whatever you're locking, with minimal effort. Not to mention they receive buffs from commando skills (reload, damage for Min), as well as the possibility of another light weapon for defense. Due to their ease of use and benefits from being put on commando and med/light suits, they shouldn't be as good as forges. One thing that has concerned me is effectiveness of higher class AV weapons on lighter class vehicles (forges against LAVs, for example). I'm not too concerned with it now, since we only have 2 AV weapons, but in Legion where (I assume) we're getting a racial parody of heavy and light AV weapons, I think heavy weapons should be less effective against lighter class vehicles (and visa versa). Either that, or have variations of each be more effective against light/heavy class vehicles (for example, STD class swarms will be more effective against tanks where Assault class will be faster, but do less damage, to take out LAVs/ADSs). Dust was real! I was there!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3712	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:24:00 - [116] - Quote Vulpes, what you're shrugging off as "navigation mishaps" is the primary limitation of swarms. Around a city socket, you can assume half of all swarms will miss. And swarms should be the best AV weapon, theoretically, since they completely sacrifice anti-infantry capability, unlike the forge. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 986	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:30:00 - [117] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: There's actually a lot of skill in figuring out how to hit dropships with swarms without hitting buildings. Forges are a lot easier, since you just point and shoot. Swarms require like... some basic understanding of geometry. Actually there isn't. If you read my post or used swarms as much as you claimed, you would know that swarm missiles track dropships differently than ground targets. There is skill in knowing when to fire swarm volleys so that it actually hits target; and with the recent buff, that is even easier now. Please work on a solution for ADS being unable to effectively kill vehicles. What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 751	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:40:00 - [118] - Quote At least in the last two evenings I didn't come across an Incubus that would be able to kill my Grimsnes. If that trend continues I'd suggest a combination of improving railgun ROF and ADS skill effect slightly each.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:55:00 - [119] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: For a few months I did almost nothing but swarm-based AV, until 1.7 when they stopped being able to damage... anything really. Vehicles were still overbearingly unmanageable, so I moved into forges for AV, and I was amazed at all of the advantages. Even with swarms being buffed as they are, I will still likely favor forges. Though I'm trying to get some good swarm testing in. I killed most everything with swarms and av Nades pre update. Again your personal skull is not a bases for balancing hard numbers.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3713	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:59:00 - [120] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: I killed most everything with swarms and av Nades pre update. Again your personal skull is not a bases for balancing hard numbers. Thankfully, the game was balanced for Hotfix Delta based on hard numbers and statistics, not my personal skill. :) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.



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