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Assault Dropship Rate of Fire Bonus reduced from 10% to 3% per level

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Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5323	Posted - 2014.09.22 12:58:00 - [1] - Quote https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 426	Posted - 2014.09.22 12:59:00 - [2] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else?
Everything Dies HENTAI FAN CLUB 975	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:00:00 - [3] - Quote If the pilot-stacking can't be fixed in a hotfix, this would seem to be the best fix available. Too bad it punishes solo ADS pilots more than the stackers... Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof: Listen
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5323	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:01:00 - [4] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: If the pilot-stacking can't be fixed in a hotfix, this would seem to be the best fix available. Too bad it punishes solo ADS pilots more than the stackers... This is on top of fixing ADS stacking, since he's said before that that would be addressed in Hotfix Delta. Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? Missile rate of fire with no skill bonus is extremely slow. Among other things this would completely remove the ability of a solo Python to effectively engage tanks, especially shield tanks thanks to the penalty against shield. Also, I'm not sure if anyone has tried taking a Python against an Incubus, but having your ADS skill up for that 40-50% bonus is the only way to win a fight against one with how effective Small Railguns are. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 579	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:02:00 - [5] - Quote Holy crap I have a chance to return fire against skilled pilots. Maybe now basic drop ships won't be used as attack platforms. Lonewolf till I die
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5323	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:07:00 - [6] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Holy crap I have a chance to return fire against skilled pilots. Maybe now basic drop ships won't be used as attack platforms. Is this with Militia Swarms or are you actually using Wyrkomi Swarms? Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Michael Arck 5689	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:10:00 - [7] - Quote Honestly speaking Im not mad. Gives me reaction time. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1538	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:11:00 - [8] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Holy crap I have a chance to return fire against skilled pilots. Maybe now basic drop ships won't be used as attack platforms. Is this with Militia Swarms or are you actually using Wyrkomi Swarms? With the increased health and fitting of the basic DSs, people would be stupid to risk a good Swarm fit, might as well ram. With the health on Grimsnes, hell, you'll probably smash a Python and continue flying. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2425	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:17:00 - [9] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. This reduction with a 50-100% survivability increase would make sense. Right now dropships are offensive platforms... That kill most things in 1-3 shots... Kill most vehicles in one volley... And the balancing method to that? Allow them to take 2-4 shots and they die. Instead of having mobile spawning platforms and rewarding pilots for troop transport... And allowing them to provide somewhat sustained cover fire without having to run away after taking a hit. Would do nothing but improve everyday DUST gameplay.. Currently the way Dropships work currently are as glorified Fighters. All gank and no tank... It's one of the biggest WTF's in the game. Red-lining would barely be a thing if dropships where actually used how CCP advertised them.
Everything Dies HENTAI FAN CLUB 976	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:21:00 - [10] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Where did you hear that they were fixing the pilot stacking? I was under the impression that this couldn't be fixed in a hotfix update. On a side note: just saw the proposed range for swarms...my poor, poor Maddy! Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof: Listen

Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5324	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:21:00 - [11] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. This reduction with a 50-100% survivability increase would make sense. Right now dropships are offensive platforms... That kill most things in 1-3 shots... Kill most vehicles in one volley... And the balancing method to that? Allow them to take 2-4 shots and they die. Instead of having mobile spawning platforms and rewarding pilots for troop transport... And allowing them to provide somewhat sustained cover fire without having to run away after taking a hit. Would do nothing but improve everyday DUST gameplay.. Currently the way Dropships work currently are as glorified Fighters. All gank and no tank... It's one of the biggest WTF's in the game. Red-lining would barely be a thing if dropships where actually used how CCP advertised them. Most vehicles in one volley? Ever tried taking on even a basic Soma with no reps or a Hardener? Even with the damage bonus against armor it'll take me at least 2 full magazines with every missile hitting to actually get the kill, and that's pretty hard to pull off when they start moving and snapping backwards and forwards to throw off your aim. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7712	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:26:00 - [12] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Where did you hear that they were fixing the pilot stacking? I was under the impression that this couldn't be fixed in a hotfix update. On a side note: just saw the proposed range for swarms...my poor, poor Maddy! You are probably misunderstanding that, it's maximum and it is being kept the same as before. This is not lock on range, nothing should change in Swarm to HAV engagements. For the record, we are not addressing stacking in this Hotfix. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Everything Dies HENTAI FAN CLUB 976	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:27:00 - [13] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Most vehicles in one volley? Ever tried taking on even a basic Soma with no reps or a Hardener? Even with the damage bonus against armor it'll take me at least 2 full magazines with every missile hitting to actually get the kill, and that's pretty hard to pull off when they start moving and snapping backwards and forwards to throw off your aim. That may be true...but you don't have to worry the tank being able to fire back at you. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof: Listen
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12276	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:27:00 - [14] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. This reduction with a 50-100% survivability increase would make sense. Right now dropships are offensive platforms... That kill most things in 1-3 shots... Kill most vehicles in one volley... And the balancing method to that? Allow them to take 2-4 shots and they die. Instead of having mobile spawning platforms and rewarding pilots for troop transport... And allowing them to provide somewhat sustained cover fire without having to run away after taking a hit. Would do nothing but improve everyday DUST gameplay.. Currently the way Dropships work currently are as glorified Fighters. All gank and no tank... It's one of the biggest WTF's in the game. Red-lining would barely be a thing if dropships where actually used how CCP advertised them. 100% survivability increase? Are you high? Skilled dropship pilots already laugh at swarms, you want to make them completely useless? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 581	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:29:00 - [15] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Holy crap I have a chance to return fire against skilled pilots. Maybe now basic drop ships won't be used as attack platforms. Is this with Militia Swarms or are you actually using Wyrkomi Swarms? Don't know if saxonamish is skilled but... Triple damage mod prof 5 proto swarms, running av since last winter. Scored a shipload of damage points but he still managed about 10-15 kills, without losing his ads. I was the only av but I swear I could hear him from his ads laughing. Skilled pilots will not die by swarms. On the other hand I've solo'd 4 ads's in one round. New pilots make for fun times. Lonewolf till I die
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1539	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:33:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Where did you hear that they were fixing the pilot stacking? I was under the impression that this couldn't be fixed in a hotfix update. On a side note: just saw the proposed range for swarms...my poor, poor Maddy! You are probably misunderstanding that, it's maximum and it is being kept the same as before. This is not lock on range, nothing should change in Swarm to HAV engagements. For the record, we are not addressing stacking in this Hotfix. So, Skill stacks will be the way to go.. I see how it is. Good thing I have some people that just got an extra 3 Million SP. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
CommanderBolt TerranProtossZerg 1699	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:54:00 - [17] - Quote 3% per level!? That's a huge nerf!? I was playing in a maxed out Python with missiles the other day and I honestly did not see what was overpowered about them in the slightest. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Atiim 12395	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:00:00 - [18] - Quote LAVs should get the 10% RoF bonus. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1540	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:02:00 - [19] - Quote Atiim wrote: LAVs should get the 10% RoF bonus. Yea, that's what we need, Heavies trolling around in Railgun LAVs, but with faster fire... If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5324	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:03:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Where did you hear that they were fixing the pilot stacking? I was under the impression that this couldn't be fixed in a hotfix update. On a side note: just saw the proposed range for swarms...my poor, poor Maddy! You are probably misunderstanding that, it's maximum and it is being kept the same as before. This is not lock on range, nothing should change in Swarm to HAV engagements. For the record, we are not addressing stacking in this Hotfix. So the nerf to Rate of Fire is a stopgap, or intended to treat some other supposed issue? I just encountered a 3x Missile Python, forced them to switch to a 3x Rail Incubus, and then used a Laser Rifle on the gunners until they all gave up and pulled Heavy suits. I did that pretty much by myself. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

Atiim 12395	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:10:00 - [21] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Atiim wrote: LAVs should get the 10% RoF bonus. Yea, that's what we need, Heavies trolling around in Railgun LAVs, but with faster fire... In order to use LAVs with a 20GJ Railgun or Small Missile, you need to be in an open field. If you are in an open field, you're practically a guarranteed kill for an semi-decent AVer who happens to grace your sights. Not only that, but even the most tanked out Sentinels will be succeptable to Sniper Rifles in Hotfix Delta. Given the fact that they can't escape engagements in seconds like a Python or Incubus, this would be balanced. Risk = Reward The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Atiim 12395	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:16:00 - [22] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: So, Skill stacks will be the way to go.. I see how it is. Good thing I have some people that just got an extra 3 Million SP. Skill stacking with gunners will being you to +30% RoF at most, which is the current Operation III Feel free to waste your friend's SP The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 751	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:26:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Atiim wrote: LAVs should get the 10% RoF bonus. Yea, that's what we need, Heavies trolling around in Railgun LAVs, but with faster fire... In order to use LAVs with a 20GJ Railgun or Small Missile, you need to be in an open field. If you are in an open field, you're practically a guarranteed kill for an semi-decent AVer who happens to grace your sights. Not only that, but even the most tanked out Sentinels will be succeptable to Sniper Rifles in Hotfix Delta. Given the fact that they can't escape engagements in seconds like a Python or Incubus, this would be balanced. Risk = Reward As someone who does solo LAV frequently I think you're a bit off base with your assumptions. A solo railgun LAV can easily find positions around the map that allow him to engage a number of exposed enemies while keeping himself more or less safe from enemy fire. All you really need is some cliff face or building to stick the backside of the LAV around and that will provide all the cover you'd need from any of the relevant AV that could see you coming. Hear swarms? Jump back in the drivers seat and dodge them for the duration. Now activate your hardener and pop your head back out and you can gun down the swarmer before he can get another lock and volley out. A well fit LAV (ie. not the blood raider sagas) is not nearly as fragile as you make them out to be. And if you're using the sniper as an example then a LAV driver could absolutely escape sniper rifle fire. All I really need to be able to do is tank the first shot, when I see my health drop I jump back in my drivers seat again and drive away. Frankly the solo (railgun) LAV is the very definition of a style of play that, with practice, can be done with very little risk to the pilot. And giving them the former Assault Dropship bonus? I'm a huge fan of the idea of LAV variants being re-added to the game but something like this would mean the complete annihilation of all other vehicles on the field. Dropships would be completely denied from an AV platform that is nearly as mobile as they are, Tanks would become sitting ducks, and AV/Infantry wouldn't stand much of a chance in hell given the mobility and power of the platform. Compared to a Dropship an LAV has a LOT more options in terms of cover to effectively avoid enemy AV. No, 10% is too much for something as difficult to destroy as the LAV.
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 422	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:28:00 - [24] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? BECAUSE I SPECED 2,5 mill SP FOR IT U F*CKTARD
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2653	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:30:00 - [25] - Quote 3%? Are you freaking serious? The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4654	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:34:00 - [26] - Quote Sweet, just in time for me to drop all that SP from my alt into ADS. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1540	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:47:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: So, Skill stacks will be the way to go.. I see how it is. Good thing I have some people that just got an extra 3 Million SP. Skill stacking with gunners will being you to +30% RoF at most, which is the current Operation III Feel free to waste your friend's SP He's at 67 Million and already has ADS up a bit, so, I think he'll be fine. I've noticed you like to single me out all of a sudden. I left you alone after your assholery months ago that screwed over Minmatar Assaults, so, go troll someone else. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 323	Posted - 2014.09.22 15:38:00 - [28] - Quote And with 1 change you made ADS useless. I thought the AB nerf and buffed swarms would have beeing balancing enough but appearently you need to swing the nerfbat onto everything that benefits ADS. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2126	Posted - 2014.09.22 15:41:00 - [29] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2961	Posted - 2014.09.22 15:56:00 - [30] - Quote poison Diego wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? BECAUSE I SPECED 2,5 mill SP FOR IT U F*CKTARD And this is the lamest reason ever. Balance > Your SP output

Atiim 12396	Posted - 2014.09.22 15:57:00 - [31] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Balance. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2961	Posted - 2014.09.22 15:58:00 - [32] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because we know you will rage if Infantry gain any advantage and people think it is funny.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3450	Posted - 2014.09.22 15:58:00 - [33] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because ADS was just that OP. o_O That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4658	Posted - 2014.09.22 16:03:00 - [34] - Quote I'm guessing that it's a big enough hit that you just won't see them much anymore. It's too expensive and in a competitive environment they are going to get eaten alive while not being able to perform very well. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 429	Posted - 2014.09.22 16:45:00 - [35] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: And with 1 change you made ADS useless. I thought the AB nerf and buffed swarms would have beeing balancing enough but appearently you need to swing the nerfbat onto everything that benefits ADS. So because you cant fire a missle launcher as fast as a light weapon its useless? Are you high?
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2655	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:15:00 - [36] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because ADS was just that OP. o_O That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. ADS was just that OP my ass. I've never seen you fly ever, what the hell would you know about ADS. and even if you did fly, how many PC's have you flown in? I've flown and rang for more corps as an ADS more times than I've jerked it. How long were you flying? I've been flying ever since I started the game back in chrome. It's my bread and butter, and I've been driven broke four times doing the one thing CCP made enjoyable in this Godforsaken game. I'm not about to let a bunch of tin foil noobs who don't know anything about taking out an ADS other than "lock on" and "release" dictate something I specced more than 2/5 of my SP into and ruin the fun I have with it. And while we're here, who's the guy who recommended a 35% decrease to the ROF skill? Is this tard going to also say that having our AB modules reduced by this much is a great idea, along with our ROF nerf? Is he also the genius that proposed an increase to our AB active time? After seeing all this crap proposed, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that all but one person on the CPM and whoever is working for CCP knows a damn thing about ADS and how they operate, and that one guy we haven't seen hide nor hair of. Hell, Zatara actually got me into a squad with Logibro to discuss ADS nerf and AV buff. That just goes to show nobody active on your damn board knows anything about actually balancing us. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2971	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:18:00 - [37] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because ADS was just that OP. o_O That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. ADS was just that OP my ass. I've never seen you fly ever, what the hell would you know about ADS. and even if you did fly, how many PC's have you flown in? I've flown and rang for more corps as an ADS more times than I've jerked it. How long were you flying? I've been flying ever since I started the game back in chrome. It's my bread and butter, and I've been driven broke four times doing the one thing CCP made enjoyable in this Godforsaken game. I'm not about to let a bunch of tin foil noobs who don't know anything about taking out an ADS other than "lock on" and "release" dictate something I specced more than 2/5 of my SP into and ruin the fun I have with it. And while we're here, who's the guy who recommended a 35% decrease to the ROF skill? Is this tard going to also say that having our AB modules reduced by this much is a great idea, along with our ROF nerf? Is he also the genius that proposed an increase to our AB active time? After seeing all this crap proposed, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that all but one person on the CPM and whoever is working for CCP knows a damn thing about ADS and how they operate, and that one guy we haven't seen hide nor hair of. Hell, Zatara actually got me into a squad with Logibro to discuss ADS nerf and AV buff. That just goes to show nobody active on your damn board knows anything about actually balancing us. And yet it's cool for you to farm infantry kills with little to no recourse. What, balance should be predicated on the enemy team having another ADS, or a forge gunner who's been focused on forge guns since Beta to take you down? Where does the parity begin and the one-sided victory engine end?
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 429	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:19:00 - [38] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because ADS was just that OP. o_O That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. ADS was just that OP my ass. I've never seen you fly ever, what the hell would you know about ADS. and even if you did fly, how many PC's have you flown in? I've flown and rang for more corps as an ADS more times than I've jerked it. How long were you flying? I've been flying ever since I started the game back in chrome. It's my bread and butter, and I've been driven broke four times doing the one thing CCP made enjoyable in this Godforsaken game. I'm not about to let a bunch of tin foil noobs who don't know anything about taking out an ADS other than "lock on" and "release" dictate something I specced more than 2/5 of my SP into and ruin the fun I have with it. And while we're here, who's the guy who recommended a 35% decrease to the ROF skill? Is this tard going to also say that having our AB modules reduced by this much is a great idea, along with our ROF nerf? Is he also the genius that proposed an increase to our AB active time? After seeing all this crap proposed, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that all but one person on the CPM and whoever is working for CCP knows a damn thing about ADS and how they operate, and that one guy we haven't seen hide nor hair of. Hell, Zatara actually got me into a squad with Logibro to discuss ADS nerf and AV buff. That just goes to show nobody active on your damn board knows anything about actually balancing us. Ok, if we dont know anything about ADSs, explain why a RoF nerf is bad and how it stops you from performing your role. As for the Swarm side of things, every ads that isnt flown by a moron just ABs away after the first swarm and comes back 10 seconds later fully repped.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2657	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:23:00 - [39] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because ADS was just that OP. o_O That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. ADS was just that OP my ass. I've never seen you fly ever, what the hell would you know about ADS. and even if you did fly, how many PC's have you flown in? I've flown and rang for more corps as an ADS more times than I've jerked it. How long were you flying? I've been flying ever since I started the game back in chrome. It's my bread and butter, and I've been driven broke four times doing the one thing CCP made enjoyable in this Godforsaken game. I'm not about to let a bunch of tin foil noobs who don't know anything about taking out an ADS other than "lock on" and "release" dictate something I specced more than 2/5 of my SP into and ruin the fun I have with it. And while we're here, who's the guy who recommended a 35% decrease to the ROF skill? Is this tard going to also say that having our AB modules reduced by this much is a great idea, along with our ROF nerf? Is he also the genius that proposed an increase to our AB active time? After seeing all this crap proposed, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that all but one person on the CPM and whoever is working for CCP knows a damn thing about ADS and how they operate, and that one guy we haven't seen hide nor hair of. Hell, Zatara actually got me into a squad with Logibro to discuss ADS nerf and AV buff. That just goes to show nobody active on your damn board knows anything about actually balancing us. Ok, if we dont know anything about ADSs, explain why a RoF nerf is bad and how it stops you from performing your role. As for the Swarm side of things, every ads that isnt flown by a moron just ABs away after the first swarm and comes back 10 seconds later fully repped. I never said an ROF nerf wasn't needed, neither did I say that an AB nerf wasn't needed. I'm saying they went overboard with it. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 660	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:23:00 - [40] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because ADS was just that OP. o_O That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. ADS was just that OP my ass. I've never seen you fly ever, what the hell would you know about ADS. and even if you did fly, how many PC's have you flown in? I've flown and rang for more corps as an ADS more times than I've jerked it. How long were you flying? I've been flying ever since I started the game back in chrome. It's my bread and butter, and I've been driven broke four times doing the one thing CCP made enjoyable in this Godforsaken game. I'm not about to let a bunch of tin foil noobs who don't know anything about taking out an ADS other than "lock on" and "release" dictate something I specced more than 2/5 of my SP into and ruin the fun I have with it. And while we're here, who's the guy who recommended a 35% decrease to the ROF skill? Is this tard going to also say that having our AB modules reduced by this much is a great idea, along with our ROF nerf? Is he also the genius that proposed an increase to our AB active time? After seeing all this crap proposed, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that all but one person on the CPM and whoever is working for CCP knows a damn thing about ADS and how they operate, and that one guy we haven't seen hide nor hair of. Hell, Zatara actually got me into a squad with Logibro to discuss ADS nerf and AV buff. That just goes to show nobody active on your damn board knows anything about actually balancing us. Ok, if we dont know anything about ADSs, explain why a RoF nerf is bad and how it stops you from performing your role. As for the Swarm side of things, every ads that isnt flown by a moron just ABs away after the first swarm and comes back 10 seconds later fully repped. It is bad because you won't be able to kill a forge gunner anymore. After this nerf I will sh!t all over ADS.

Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2658	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:27:00 - [41] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: And yet it's cool for you to farm infantry kills with little to no recourse. What, balance should be predicated on the enemy team having another ADS, or a forge gunner who's been focused on forge guns since Beta to take you down? Where does the parity begin and the one-sided victory engine end? Yes, actually. If reds are unwilling to do anything about me, they deserve to get killed by me, or one of my squad mates. And I'm actually agreeing with a beta forge killing me, do you know why? Because forging actually takes skill. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3456	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:31:00 - [42] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Yes, actually. If reds are unwilling to do anything about me, they deserve to get killed by me, or one of my squad mates. And I'm actually agreeing with a beta forge killing me, do you know why? Because forging actually takes skill. Swarms may require less skill to fire, but they're an incredibly crippled weapon. They can only fire if you're in an incredibly short lock range, and since they're the only weapon in the game that cannot kill other infantry, swarm players are extremely vulnerable at all times on the battlefield. Coupled with their wimpy amount of damage they do on the rare occasion they hit your dropship... yeah. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 167	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:31:00 - [43] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'm guessing that it's a big enough hit that you just won't see them much anymore. It's too expensive and in a competitive environment they are going to get eaten alive while not being able to perform very well. I was gonna get incubus lv 5 but now i see this im officialy done with dropships. Dropships have no tank and now pythons barely shoot faster than a missle incubus. Very lame ccp, very lame.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 167	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:33:00 - [44] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because ADS was just that OP. o_O That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. Its a 45% difference in rof thats a huge change.Did you guys even test it or you just playing number games.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2658	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:39:00 - [45] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Yes, actually. If reds are unwilling to do anything about me, they deserve to get killed by me, or one of my squad mates. And I'm actually agreeing with a beta forge killing me, do you know why? Because forging actually takes skill. Swarms may require less skill to fire, but they're an incredibly crippled weapon. They can only fire if you're in an incredibly short lock range, and since they're the only weapon in the game that cannot kill other infantry, swarm players are extremely vulnerable at all times on the battlefield. Coupled with their wimpy amount of damage they do on the rare occasion they hit your dropship... yeah. They're getting an acceleration buff in Delta, that buff almost ensures that over 50% of the time an ADS hovering will get hit hardcore by that swarmer, it may not kill us unless we're stupid, but that's the price we pay for being stupid. And on swarmers being defenseless. 1) good, hire a bodyguard, teamwork is OP. 2) If you can't get a friend, then propose to CCP a suit that can fit two light weapons. One will be swarms, the other a light weapon that will help you fend off any infantry that comes your way. We'll call it the commando suit, oh wait, they already made it. (I do actually apologize for making a smartass comment, but I need some humor) The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3457	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:47:00 - [46] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Its a 45% difference in rof thats a huge change.Did you guys even test it or you just playing number games. I do not have a test server, nor am I a game developer. CCP tests the hotfixes though. Derrith Erador wrote: They're getting an acceleration buff in Delta, that buff almost ensures that over 50% of the time an ADS hovering will get hit hardcore by that swarmer, it may not kill us unless we're stupid, but that's the price we pay for being stupid. And on swarmers being defenseless. 1) good, hire a bodyguard, teamwork is OP. If it doesn't kill you, it might not be buffed enough. Dropships should actually die sometimes. Shocker, I know. Suggesting teamwork says the vehicle pilot who doesn't need teamwork to top the scoreboard. That's the inherent problem of vehicles: They allow a single player to be powerful enough to require teamwork to take them down, while requiring no teamwork on their part. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 167	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:48:00 - [47] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because ADS was just that OP. o_O That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. Its a 45% difference in rof thats a huge change.Did you guys even test it or you just playing number games. 35% difference typo. Ccp what a lame excuse, it evens the playing field vs. new guys i thought skills mattered what do the new guys have to look forward to, dropships are useless now. I lose all my rof, av gets buffed, afterburns get nerfed, and our turret profiency skill doesnt even work.The acvtivation time buff is freakin stupid who leaves their modules on more than 15 aeconds after a fight.Also 150 k saved makes no difference ill be losing more dropships than ever after this.This game really is turning into a cod sack just remove the sp gap already itll be the ultimate gravestone to this once unique tactical game.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4662	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:51:00 - [48] - Quote I don't understand how people are saying AV is underpowered. I've been a vehicle hater since before it was cool. I bring out AV and kill stuff, then I'm pissed that I'm stuck in my AV suit. And ADS is sorcery, I haven't spent much time trying to do it but it appears to be impossible for mortals to hit anything with them. I consider ADS pilots proof that we aren't alone in the universe. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4662	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:53:00 - [49] - Quote I think everyone should refrain from jumping off of anything though. Rattati has shown to tweak tweaks if he doesn't get them right. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 324	Posted - 2014.09.22 17:57:00 - [50] - Quote To be honest swarms are allwas a threat. When im rolling with a squad ill get my commando out and when i see a dropship flying my way i swap to swarms and start to AV it. He either runs for his life or i will destroy him. Swarms on commandos are extremely good due to the very short reload you get with the skills. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!

Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2658	Posted - 2014.09.22 18:13:00 - [51] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Its a 45% difference in rof thats a huge change.Did you guys even test it or you just playing number games. I do not have a test server, nor am I a game developer. CCP tests the hotfixes though. Derrith Erador wrote: They're getting an acceleration buff in Delta, that buff almost ensures that over 50% of the time an ADS hovering will get hit hardcore by that swarmer, it may not kill us unless we're stupid, but that's the price we pay for being stupid. And on swarmers being defenseless. 1) good, hire a bodyguard, teamwork is OP. If it doesn't kill you, it might not be buffed enough. Dropships should actually die sometimes. Shocker, I know. Suggesting teamwork says the vehicle pilot who doesn't need teamwork to top the scoreboard. That's the inherent problem of vehicles: They allow a single player to be powerful enough to require teamwork to take them down, while requiring no teamwork on their part. Dropships should die sometimes eh? sure, but I guess you'd like to conveniently forget that swarms should also die too, especially if the role of an ADS is to kill infantry (which, by the way, it is). In your words, shocker, I know. And suggesting teamwork to take down a vehicle, which is supposed to be a force multiplier, is perfectly reasonable, especially when my comment saying "hire a bodyguard" is mainly to keep him from dying from foot soldiers. And even if he didn't have a friend, he could skill into what I recommended previously, that you conveniently left out, the strange life form known as the commando. You know, I've heard rumors that inside the species known as commandoughious, there is a subspecies known as minmando, that offers... wait for it... a damage buff to swarms and projectile weapons! Who would've thought that investing your SP wisely would get you something? (and if you've ever tried a minmando, you'll know you don't need teamwork to kill noob pilots) The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4664	Posted - 2014.09.22 18:15:00 - [52] - Quote I wreck ADS and tanks with my Mando and it's only at ADV (swarms Prof 2) Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3464	Posted - 2014.09.22 18:30:00 - [53] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think everyone should refrain from jumping off of anything though. Rattati has shown to tweak tweaks if he doesn't get them right. He is very good about revisiting fixes that go too far or not far enough. Derrith Erador wrote: Dropships should die sometimes eh? sure, but I guess you'd like to conveniently forget that swarms should also die too, especially if the role of an ADS is to kill infantry (which, by the way, it is). In your words, shocker, I know. And suggesting teamwork to take down a vehicle, which is supposed to be a force multiplier, is perfectly reasonable, especially when my comment saying "hire a bodyguard" is mainly to keep him from dying from foot soldiers. And even if he didn't have a friend, he could skill into what I recommended previously, that you conveniently left out, the strange life form known as the commando. You know, I've heard rumors that inside the species known as commandoughious, there is a subspecies known as minmando, that offers... wait for it... a damage buff to swarms and projectile weapons! Who would've thought that investing your SP wisely would get you something? (and if you've ever tried a minmando, you'll know you don't need teamwork to kill noob pilots) Swarms die a lot. It's easy to blow through 2 mil ISK in proto swarms just trying to deter and be unable to kill, a single ADS. It's ridiculously expensive, and we get nothing for it. Yes, ADS should kill most infantry, but they should die to AV. Vehicles > Infantry > AV (which die to infantry a LOT) > Vehicles. That's your triangle. When you see AV on the field, you should be coordinating with infantry on your team to clear the way for you. The problem is, your notion that your class as a force multiplier simply means you should be better than players who chose a different class. I am all for teamwork. So why doesn't the ADS require teamwork? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2659	Posted - 2014.09.22 18:41:00 - [54] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think everyone should refrain from jumping off of anything though. Rattati has shown to tweak tweaks if he doesn't get them right. He is very good about revisiting fixes that go too far or not far enough. Derrith Erador wrote: Dropships should die sometimes eh? sure, but I guess you'd like to conveniently forget that swarms should also die too, especially if the role of an ADS is to kill infantry (which, by the way, it is). In your words, shocker, I know. And suggesting teamwork to take down a vehicle, which is supposed to be a force multiplier, is perfectly reasonable, especially when my comment saying "hire a bodyguard" is mainly to keep him from dying from foot soldiers. And even if he didn't have a friend, he could skill into what I recommended previously, that you conveniently left out, the strange life form known as the commando. You know, I've heard rumors that inside the species known as commandoughious, there is a subspecies known as minmando, that offers... wait for it... a damage buff to swarms and projectile weapons! Who would've thought that investing your SP wisely would get you something? (and if you've ever tried a minmando, you'll know you don't need teamwork to kill noob pilots) Swarms die a lot. It's easy to blow through 2 mil ISK in proto swarms just trying to deter and be unable to kill, a single ADS. It's ridiculously expensive, and we get nothing for it. Yes, ADS should kill most infantry, but they should die to AV. Vehicles > Infantry > AV (which die to infantry a LOT) > Vehicles. That's your triangle. When you see AV on the field, you should be coordinating with infantry on your team to clear the way for you. The problem is, your notion that your class as a force multiplier simply means you should be better than players who chose a different class. I am all for teamwork. So why doesn't the ADS require teamwork? Oh but we do require teamwork. If you've ever squadded with me (you haven't, but let's pretend), you'd know that I cry like a little girl when there are two swarmers camped up on a roof in the ideal suit, which you seem to keep ignoring for whatever reason (commando). I've requested multiple times from my squad mates to get in my ADS, drop out over high point and help me gangbang them. A good forger (I'm talking really good) that has properly set himself up is insanely difficult for me to get around, all you'd have to do in that scenario is add in a random red with a militia in that forges general area (no more than twenty meters) and I am locked off from that area if I don't get help. It's perfectly possible for a swarm/PLC/Forge or rail tank to solo an ADS. It's just that a lot of them are not skilled enough, another thing people in GD don't seem to take into account, personal skill that is. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 663	Posted - 2014.09.22 18:54:00 - [55] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think everyone should refrain from jumping off of anything though. Rattati has shown to tweak tweaks if he doesn't get them right. He is very good about revisiting fixes that go too far or not far enough. Derrith Erador wrote: Dropships should die sometimes eh? sure, but I guess you'd like to conveniently forget that swarms should also die too, especially if the role of an ADS is to kill infantry (which, by the way, it is). In your words, shocker, I know. And suggesting teamwork to take down a vehicle, which is supposed to be a force multiplier, is perfectly reasonable, especially when my comment saying "hire a bodyguard" is mainly to keep him from dying from foot soldiers. And even if he didn't have a friend, he could skill into what I recommended previously, that you conveniently left out, the strange life form known as the commando. You know, I've heard rumors that inside the species known as commandoughious, there is a subspecies known as minmando, that offers... wait for it... a damage buff to swarms and projectile weapons! Who would've thought that investing your SP wisely would get you something? (and if you've ever tried a minmando, you'll know you don't need teamwork to kill noob pilots) Swarms die a lot. It's easy to blow through 2 mil ISK in proto swarms just trying to deter and be unable to kill, a single ADS. It's ridiculously expensive, and we get nothing for it. Yes, ADS should kill most infantry, but they should die to AV. Vehicles > Infantry > AV (which die to infantry a LOT) > Vehicles. That's your triangle. When you see AV on the field, you should be coordinating with infantry on your team to clear the way for you. The problem is, your notion that your class as a force multiplier simply means you should be better than players who chose a different class. I am all for teamwork. So why doesn't the ADS require teamwork? Oh but we do require teamwork. If you've ever squadded with me (you haven't, but let's pretend), you'd know that I cry like a little girl when there are two swarmers camped up on a roof in the ideal suit, which you seem to keep ignoring for whatever reason (commando). I've requested multiple times from my squad mates to get in my ADS, drop out over high point and help me gangbang them. A good forger (I'm talking really good) that has properly set himself up is insanely difficult for me to get around, all you'd have to do in that scenario is add in a random red with a militia in that forges general area (no more than twenty meters) and I am locked off from that area if I don't get help. It's perfectly possible for a swarm/PLC/Forge or rail tank to solo an ADS. It's just that a lot of them are not skilled enough, another thing people in GD don't seem to take into account, personal skill that is. I can confirm the girlish squeals are true. I can also confirm that with some skill a single forger can shutdown an entire area of the map, yes, even from a skilled pilot like Derrith. All this garbage I see Soraya spewing is exactly why I hated to see anyone on the CPM that doesn't play PC. As much as I dislike Zatara I voted for her solely on the fact she actually knows what goes on in PC. Everyone else is clueless and thinks that just because they can't hang with a good player that whatever weapon they are using is OP and it's up to CCP to make their life easier. How about instead of crying OP every time something kills you just actually put in the time to get good at countering it. Guys like Derrith have put countless hours into their craft, as have I at making their life hell.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3467	Posted - 2014.09.22 18:57:00 - [56] - Quote Derrith, you're still talking about being "locked off from an area". Have you ever, you know, "died"? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2663	Posted - 2014.09.22 18:58:00 - [57] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Derrith, you're still talking about being "locked off from an area". Have you ever, you know, "died"? Yes, when I actually go in those areas, which I'm not dumb enough to do unless absolutely necessary. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3472	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:03:00 - [58] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Derrith, you're still talking about being "locked off from an area". Have you ever, you know, "died"? Yes, when I actually go in those areas, which I'm not dumb enough to do unless absolutely necessary. Now, on the opposite, consider that as a swarm launcher user, I can be instakilled anywhere by a shotgunner, HMG, combat rifle, nova knifer, or of course, your ADS. I have no way to rapidly leave the area faster than any other class in the game. Do you have any idea of just how ridiculously OP you are? The idea that you can leave an area of engagement until someone takes care of the threat is a luxury no infantry, and certainly no AV has. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
CamClarke 0uter.Heaven 114	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:07:00 - [59] - Quote Welp, ADS are going to be worthless as anything more than an uplink/forger/commando delivery platform now. STD missile turret to clear enemy uplinks, everything else tank modules so you can survive the AV just long enough to make it to your landing zone before exploding. A Python will no longer be able to kill a forger in time, which was hard enough with them rocking your aim everywhere while not rendering. Hell, probably won't even be able to kill Commandos in time either since swarms are undodgeable (buildings are not often a useable thing in an ADS). Sure, their survivability is increasing by 50% (except not really because Afterburners are getting nerfed) but their DPS was cut by a massive 70%. It was already impossible to deal with multiple AV sources unless they were in the starter Anti-Armor fit. That hasn't changed. Incubi and Pythons alike won't be able to destroy armor-rep stacking Madrugars anymore either. They were already a very tough nut to crack for an ADS and now they'll only be destroyable by enough remote explosives or so much AV that they get alpha'd. Mayyybe a missile tank that sneaks up on them. Air-to-air combat was already tough for either side to come to a conclusion without ramming. Now that's going to be the ONLY way to kill other dropships if you're flying. You've just Flaylocked them, Rattati. Triple nerfed. I'm truly disappointed. I thought you were smarter than that. I've never asked for a respec on the forums before, even during the darkest days of 1.7 when tanks roamed the battlefield unchecked, but this is too ridiculous to not warrant one.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2107	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:18:00 - [60] - Quote @Derrith and other ADS pilots I've given up arguing with Soraya Xel and Atiim and the other AV zealots out there. They clearly have no idea what they're talking about. They think we're some invincible entity that cannot be killed by any means and that they're some hapless soul carrying some pathetic peashooter constantly being bullied by our OP fly-ie things. They have no desire for balance at all. Soraya has even said any swarm should kill any ADS as much as an ADS can kill a swarmer. They're just closed-minded sore-losers that can't see the actual viability of the weapons they have. Does the ADS need a nerf? Sure, a bit. But these guys don't care about balance. They just have a hard-on about nerfing ADSs. I'm still going to fly post-Delta, and I'm going to make the most of it. If they're still viable, I'm going to show these idiots that it's not the ADS's that are OPGÇª It's the pilots. Dust was real! I was there!

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4668	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:22:00 - [61] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: @Derrith and other ADS pilots I've given up arguing with Soraya Xel and Atiim and the other AV zealots out there. They clearly have no idea what they're talking about. They think we're some invincible entity that cannot be killed by any means and that they're some hapless soul carrying some pathetic peashooter constantly being bullied by our OP fly-ie things. They have no desire for balance at all. Soraya has even said any swarm should kill any ADS as much as an ADS can kill a swarmer. They're just closed-minded sore-losers that can't see the actual viability of the weapons they have. Does the ADS need a nerf? Sure, a bit. But these guys don't care about balance. They just have a hard-on about nerfing ADSs. I'm still going to fly post-Delta, and I'm going to make the most of it. If they're still viable, I'm going to show these idiots that it's not the ADS's that are OPGÇª It's the pilots. I'd always though Soraya was pretty level headed, but I have to agree on this issue he's dead wrong. Swarms should be a deterrent to smart ADS pilots or the role is dead. That is as simple as it gets. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2980	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:22:00 - [62] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: It's the pilots. That's how it should be. When the pilots, not the equipment are the things people should be terrified of, then we have achieved. When it's the AV gunner, not his gun that people are wary of, we have achieved. When it's the tank driver, and not his armor that people fear, we have achieved. When we get all three, we have balance.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3474	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:22:00 - [63] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: They have no desire for balance at all. Soraya has even said any swarm should kill any ADS as much as an ADS can kill a swarmer. They're just closed-minded sore-losers that can't see the actual viability of the weapons they have. How is an AV being able to kill an ADS, and an ADS being able to kill an AV not balance, Vulpes? You don't seem to know what the word "balance" means. This would be the definition of balance: "a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions:" But you're staunchly opposed to ADS and AV having equal abilities to kill each other. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4668	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:28:00 - [64] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: It's the pilots. That's how it should be. When the pilots, not the equipment are the things people should be terrified of, then we have achieved. When it's the AV gunner, not his gun that people are wary of, we have achieved. When it's the tank driver, and not his armor that people fear, we have achieved. When we get all three, we have balance. I think we are already there in pubs. I think vehicles are a touch UP to be honest and I'm 100% infantry. You can search my posts, I've come close to blowing my top in regards to tanks in the past. I just don't see where such a drastic nerf is necessary, ESPECIALLY when they are buffing swarms. I don't think it's a good idea to nerf anything vehicle related if buffing AV at all. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4669	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:31:00 - [65] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: They have no desire for balance at all. Soraya has even said any swarm should kill any ADS as much as an ADS can kill a swarmer. They're just closed-minded sore-losers that can't see the actual viability of the weapons they have. How is an AV being able to kill an ADS, and an ADS being able to kill an AV not balance, Vulpes? You don't seem to know what the word "balance" means. This would be the definition of balance: "a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions:" But you're staunchly opposed to ADS and AV having equal abilities to kill each other. If you cripple the ability for the ADS to escape AND nerf it's ability to kill then you've killed the role. With the buff to swarms and the nerf to afterburners it is just simply a bad idea to more forward with this nerf. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3476	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:36:00 - [66] - Quote Thor, if the players won't play the role if it's balanced, is that an excuse to keep it overpowered? Where's my escape button? I want an escape button that makes my swarm suit able to completely avoid any threat to it whenever I choose. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4671	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:43:00 - [67] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor, if the players won't play the role if it's balanced, is that an excuse to keep it overpowered? Where's my escape button? I want an escape button that makes my swarm suit able to completely avoid any threat to it whenever I choose. If people don't use it then it's not balanced. I guess time will tell. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3477	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:46:00 - [68] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thor, if the players won't play the role if it's balanced, is that an excuse to keep it overpowered? Where's my escape button? I want an escape button that makes my swarm suit able to completely avoid any threat to it whenever I choose. If people don't use it then it's not balanced. I guess time will tell. That doesn't make any sense. Balance is where a class is equally able to counter other classes. It has nothing to do with whether or not players are playing them. If vehicle users can't handle playing a game where they're balanced against other players, then they won't handle it, but it doesn't mean they should be able to roll over everyone else just so they're happy. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4672	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:51:00 - [69] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thor, if the players won't play the role if it's balanced, is that an excuse to keep it overpowered? Where's my escape button? I want an escape button that makes my swarm suit able to completely avoid any threat to it whenever I choose. If people don't use it then it's not balanced. I guess time will tell. That doesn't make any sense. Balance is where a class is equally able to counter other classes. It has nothing to do with whether or not players are playing them. If vehicle users can't handle playing a game where they're balanced against other players, then they won't handle it, but it doesn't mean they should be able to roll over everyone else just so they're happy. I think overuse is a good indication that something is OP and underuse is a good indication that something is UP. If this wasn't the case then FOTM wouldn't be such a widely used and understood acronym. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1547	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:52:00 - [70] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thor, if the players won't play the role if it's balanced, is that an excuse to keep it overpowered? Where's my escape button? I want an escape button that makes my swarm suit able to completely avoid any threat to it whenever I choose. If people don't use it then it's not balanced. I guess time will tell. That doesn't make any sense. Balance is where a class is equally able to counter other classes. It has nothing to do with whether or not players are playing them. If vehicle users can't handle playing a game where they're balanced against other players, then they won't handle it, but it doesn't mean they should be able to roll over everyone else just so they're happy. Where was the discussion thread where we tossed around these numbers? I'd like to know because I missed that meeting. And, I have to ask, was Judge around for this decision? You guys made it sound like he has some RL stuff going on, so, was he even talked to, or is this one of those decisions made because he wasn't available? Oh wait, that's probably NDA... If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2982	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:54:00 - [71] - Quote I have no opinion on the rate of fire nerf. And bluntly the claim that ADS cannot kill forge gunners with the Rof Nerf is BS. You couldn't kill me WITH the RoF with a stinking missile launcher but JESUS the Incubus rips balls off with blasters on infantry. Only way you can fight an incubus is out past 100 meters. anything closer, unless you get the drop on him with both of your first forge shots, yer dead.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2668	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:55:00 - [72] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Derrith, you're still talking about being "locked off from an area". Have you ever, you know, "died"? Yes, when I actually go in those areas, which I'm not dumb enough to do unless absolutely necessary. Now, on the opposite, consider that as a swarm launcher user, I can be instakilled anywhere by a shotgunner, HMG, combat rifle, nova knifer, or of course, your ADS. I have no way to rapidly leave the area faster than any other class in the game. Do you have any idea of just how ridiculously OP you are? The idea that you can leave an area of engagement until someone takes care of the threat is a luxury no infantry, and certainly no AV has. Untrue, you can use kin cats to run away. You can also skill into a minmando, which I must've stated for the umpteenth time to fight the aggressor, unless it's an HMG, but there's no way to realistically expect any suit that isn't a heavy to kill it. I've been called OP for quite a while, you just don't hear it. The idea that I have more movement than you is simply because I'm an aerial vehicle, I'm supposed to have more freedom of freedom of movement than you, that does not mean that you, as an AV user, are completely constricted to one area, you just choose to stay near your nanohives. I've flown in PCs, pubs, and FW's and 99% of all AV have never been more than 30 meters away from their hives. You CAN put Kin cats on your suits and move around, 99% of AV just choose not to. And the only backing argument I could possibly agree with you on the mobility issue is the over forgiving flight ceiling, let's too many noobs get away from situations where they should be dead. ADS are OP, but it's ridiculous you think these changes will keep people interested in ADS as a craft competitive wise, or for fun. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
CamClarke 0uter.Heaven 115	Posted - 2014.09.22 19:56:00 - [73] - Quote Soraya, what I think he's trying to get at is "if it's underpowered, nobody will use it". Same reason you don't see any sidearms being used besides SMGs, Nova Knives, and the odd MagSec. Same reason you don't see anyone using the Plasma Cannon or the Assault (Plasma) Rifle. I guess we'll see if ADSs are going to be as underpowered as I'm expecting, and if they are, the role is going to go extinct.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3481	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:00:00 - [74] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think overuse is a good indication that something is OP and underuse is a good indication that something is UP. If this wasn't the case then FOTM wouldn't be such a widely used and understood acronym. It is a good indicator, but it is not definitive. For instance, Scrambler Rifles are not underpowered, but you don't see them as much because they take more skill to use. Buffing them would make them OP. Derrith Erador wrote: Untrue, you can use kin cats to run away. Kincats will not save me from an instakill shotgun. What instakills you? Derrith Erador wrote: I've been called OP for quite a while, you just don't hear it. The idea that I have more movement than you is simply because I'm an aerial vehicle, I'm supposed to have more freedom of freedom of movement than you I read this line as: I'm OP because I'm supposed to be OP. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2108	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:02:00 - [75] - Quote All I'm going to say is that Soraya sees AV vs V as Rock, Paper, Scissors. I see it as chess. You get bored with RPC after a few rounds, but Chess is timeless (if you're good at it). Dust was real! I was there!
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4672	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:05:00 - [76] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think overuse is a good indication that something is OP and underuse is a good indication that something is UP. If this wasn't the case then FOTM wouldn't be such a widely used and understood acronym. It is a good indicator, but it is not definitive. For instance, Scrambler Rifles are not underpowered, but you don't see them as much because they take more skill to use. Buffing them would make them OP. Derrith Erador wrote: Untrue, you can use kin cats to run away. Kincats will not save me from an instakill shotgun. What instakills you? Derrith Erador wrote: I've been called OP for quite a while, you just don't hear it. The idea that I have more movement than you is simply because I'm an aerial vehicle, I'm supposed to have more freedom of freedom of movement than you I read this line as: I'm OP because I'm supposed to be OP. There is nothing in this game that requires more skill to use than an ADS. It's not even close. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3481	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:06:00 - [77] - Quote CamClarke wrote: Soraya, what I think he's trying to get at is "if it's underpowered, nobody will use it". Same reason you don't see any sidearms being used besides SMGs, Nova Knives, and the odd MagSec. Same reason you don't see anyone using the Plasma Cannon or the Assault (Plasma) Rifle. I guess we'll see if ADSs are going to be as underpowered as I'm expecting, and if they are, the role is going to go extinct. I am not sure there is any tier of nerfs that could ever be done that would make an ADS anywhere near underpowered territory. The problem is the ADS players on this thread have an unrealistic and hilariously unhinged definition of balance in their heads, because they've never been anywhere near balanced play in the entire history of DUST. I mean, this thread hasn't breached the other hilarity: That even if you can kill a dropship, they get to jump out and live because their dropship doesn't explode properly. And as Derrith has helpfully pointed out, the only way to lose an ADS, is to be an idiot with one. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3481	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:08:00 - [78] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: For instance, Scrambler Rifles are not underpowered, but you don't see them as much because they take more skill to use. Buffing them would make them OP. There is nothing in this game that requires more skill to use than an ADS. It's not even close. And as I pointed out, overbuffing the power of a class because it's hard to use still makes it OP. As was proved back when Scrambler Rifles were OP. Vulpes Dolosus wrote: All I'm going to say is that Soraya sees AV vs V as Rock, Paper, Scissors. I see it as chess. You get bored with RPC after a few rounds, but Chess is timeless (if you're good at it). In chess either side has an opportunity to win. Vulpes, you're arguing that in a one ADS vs one Swarm fight, the ADS should always survive. How is that like Chess? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2983	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:12:00 - [79] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: There is nothing in this game that requires more skill to use than an ADS. It's not even close. This is not a reason to make it better than literally every other thing in the game.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3483	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:15:00 - [80] - Quote In fact, Vulpes, in chess, even the pawn can capture the queen. But again, ADS pilots are afraid of the idea that a swarm launcher user could kill an ADS. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

CamClarke 0uter.Heaven 116	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:17:00 - [81] - Quote I'd be fine with being killable by one swarmer if I could ever see them.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4673	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:18:00 - [82] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: There is nothing in this game that requires more skill to use than an ADS. It's not even close. This is not a reason to make it better than literally every other thing in the game. Do you really think ADS is better than anything other thing in the game? I think it is in a FEW players hands. But when thinking back to some of the amazing slayers in this game I would have LOVED it if I could make them run off for a minute every other minute. Hey Kalante, run off now and come back in a minute or so after I've hacked this point. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3487	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:20:00 - [83] - Quote CamClarke wrote: I'd be fine with being killable by one swarmer if I could ever see them. I'd be nice if ADSes appeared on my minimap before they were ten meters away too. ;) Thor Odinson42 wrote: Do you really think ADS is better than anything other thing in the game? It really is. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2985	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:22:00 - [84] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Untrue, you can use kin cats to run away. KinCats have about as much utility on slow suits as a baseball bat in a soccer game. They don't add a flat speed, so if your suit goes faster (scouts) you benefit far more. Putting them on AV doesn't even begin to do anything that resembles an instant escape button. Depending on KinCats in an assault, Heavy, commando or Sentinel is like counting on winning the Publisher's Clearing House Sweepstakes to cover your bills for the next year. Quote: You can also skill into a minmando, which I must've stated for the umpteenth time to fight the aggressor, unless it's an HMG, but there's no way to realistically expect any suit that isn't a heavy to kill it. My ass, the Minmando is the squishiest heavy suit in the game. It's killed by just about anyone and everything it doesn't get the drop on. Do you have a pulse? If so, your primary method of attack can probably kill it. Quote: I've been called OP for quite a while, you just don't hear it. The idea that I have more movement than you is simply because I'm an aerial vehicle, I'm supposed to have more freedom of freedom of movement than you, that does not mean that you, as an AV user, are completely constricted to one area, you just choose to stay near your nanohives. I've flown in PCs, pubs, and FW's and 99% of all AV have never been more than 30 meters away from their hives. You CAN put Kin cats on your suits and move around, 99% of AV just choose not to. 99% of AV? this number is either an asspull or I've been ripped off and my AV suits are supposed to have equipment slots (Sentinel) or enough PG/CPU to actually run hives (Commando) Quote: And the only backing argument I could possibly agree with you on the mobility issue is the over forgiving flight ceiling, let's too many noobs get away from situations where they should be dead. oddly, as an AV gunner the flight ceiling doesn't bother me. Sure, i can't hit you, but you sure as hell aren't shooting me or my allies from that range either. By the time you drop back into combat range, I've reloaded and we can begin the dance anew! Quote: ADS are OP, but it's ridiculous you think these changes will keep people interested in ADS as a craft competitive wise, or for fun. Actually I have no idea how the RoF change will work out. But until we test it, we won't know. By the way, I don't mind if you argue with soraya about balance, but do please base your arguments upon facts, and not assumptions. Your arguments are flimsy and crap. Especially that BS "you aren't killing a minmando without an HMG" crap. What universe do you live in if you believe that?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4673	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:23:00 - [85] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: CamClarke wrote: I'd be fine with being killable by one swarmer if I could ever see them. I'd be nice if ADSes appeared on my minimap before they were ten meters away too. ;) Thor Odinson42 wrote: Do you really think ADS is better than anything other thing in the game? It really is. I get killed my Gal Scouts with REs and SGs or Cal Scouts with CR at least 100x more than I get killed by ADS. I have killed FAR more ADS than I've been killed by. I don't think I'm alone in this. It seems like you just have a unhealthy hatred for ADS. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2108	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:24:00 - [86] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: In fact, Vulpes, in chess, even the pawn can capture the queen. But again, ADS pilots are afraid of the idea that a swarm launcher user could kill an ADS. With proper strategy, positioning, and teamwork, yes. It's literally right in front of you yet you can't see itGÇª Dust was real! I was there!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2987	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:28:00 - [87] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: In fact, Vulpes, in chess, even the pawn can capture the queen. But again, ADS pilots are afraid of the idea that a swarm launcher user could kill an ADS. With proper strategy, positioning, and teamwork, yes. It's literally right in front of you yet you can't see itGÇª again, if it doesn't require teamwork to operate, why should it require teamwork to kill? the other two should be applied against all but the most idiotic opponents.
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 781	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:31:00 - [88] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: CamClarke wrote: I'd be fine with being killable by one swarmer if I could ever see them. I'd be nice if ADSes appeared on my minimap before they were ten meters away too. ;) Thor Odinson42 wrote: Do you really think ADS is better than anything other thing in the game? It really is. I get killed my Gal Scouts with REs and SGs or Cal Scouts with CR at least 100x more than I get killed by ADS. I have killed FAR more ADS than I've been killed by. I don't think I'm alone in this. It seems like you just have a unhealthy hatred for ADS. He does, but that's why he's not the only CPM member. Checks and balances lead to a better game, and in this case, Rhadamanthus =/= Soraya. I think the changes to ROF are a bit extreme when considering the Python, but perhaps justified for the Incubus. I would have left the Python alone and cut the Incubus in half. (I'm a dedicated PC Incubus pilot, so make of that what you will) Living proof that the Amarr can't do anything without the Caldari
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 206	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:33:00 - [89] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because ADS was just that OP. o_O That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. Nerfing the ships Pilots fly for the sake of Pilots? You're a lying piece of crap. Not in a trolly to much edge kind of way, but having the ******* to spew that bullshit.... Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2987	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:35:00 - [90] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: He does, but that's why he's not the only CPM member. Checks and balances lead to a better game, and in this case, Rhadamanthus =/= Soraya. I think the changes to ROF are a bit extreme when considering the Python, but perhaps justified for the Incubus. I would have left the Python alone and cut the Incubus in half. (I'm a dedicated PC Incubus pilot, so make of that what you will) I'm somewhat in agreement here. As a AV primary, if an Python kills me with the small missile launcher, odds are I was being clawed by a cat, or distracted by something shiny. But dat goddamn incubus... JEEBUZ!

ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 167	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:36:00 - [91] - Quote Yeah whats the point of running a python, incubus has more tank and constant reps and the new python rof is negligible.
CamClarke 0uter.Heaven 116	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:36:00 - [92] - Quote Spotting an ADS isn't terribly hard. Look for the huge shadow, look up once in a while, listen for the rather loud engine. Unless it's directly above your head (you can still see the shadow and hear it) or firing from over 100m up (in which case you aren't rendering and the pilot has to just guess where you are and get lucky), you'll always see them. If you're equipped with AV, you'll always get the first shot if the pilot is unaware of your presence. If you flew, you'd realize just how big of a problem the rendering is. Mystery damage, invisible swarms, invisible rail shots, invisible forge shots, flat out WRONG hit indicators if they even show up at all (using which way you were knocked is a better hit indicator, seriously). Being in an ADS vs AV is like trying to fight a Scout that can fire without breaking cloak half the time.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2987	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:36:00 - [93] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because ADS was just that OP. o_O That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. Nerfing the ships Pilots fly for the sake of Pilots? You're a lying piece of crap. Not in a trolly to much edge kind of way, but having the ******* to spew that bullshit.... That's not what he said. he said it's easier to balance a dropship when it's primary method of attack doesn't swing between two extremes. 110% base rate of fire is a LOT different than 150% rate of fire, and it drastically changes TTK on infantry, HAVs and pretty much everything in the game.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2987	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:38:00 - [94] - Quote CamClarke wrote: Spotting an ADS isn't terribly hard. Look for the huge shadow, look up once in a while, listen for the rather loud engine. Unless it's directly above your head (you can still see the shadow and hear it) or firing from over 100m up (in which case you aren't rendering and the pilot has to just guess where you are and get lucky), you'll always see them. If you're equipped with AV, you'll always get the first shot if the pilot is unaware of your presence. If you flew, you'd realize just how big of a problem the rendering is. Mystery damage, invisible swarms, invisible rail shots, invisible forge shots, flat out WRONG hit indicators if they even show up at all (using which way you were knocked is a better hit indicator, seriously). Being in an ADS vs AV is like trying to fight a Scout that can fire without breaking cloak half the time. Oddly enough... Carry a sniper rifle. The rendering distance is affected by the rendering distance of the weapons on your DROPSUIT, not the rendering distance of the turrets. Rattati sent it to the tech guys to look for a fix.
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 781	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:39:00 - [95] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I'm somewhat in agreement here. As a AV primary, if an Python kills me with the small missile launcher, odds are I was being clawed by a cat, or distracted by something shiny. But dat goddamn incubus... JEEBUZ! Not to mention it's unbridled AV potential... Vehicle wasteland Living proof that the Amarr can't do anything without the Caldari
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3493	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:42:00 - [96] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: again, if it doesn't require teamwork to operate, why should it require teamwork to kill? This should be like a Bible verse. People should memorize it, and recite it daily. Tesfa Alem wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. Nerfing the ships Pilots fly for the sake of Pilots? You're a lying piece of crap. Not in a trolly to much edge kind of way, but having the ******* to spew that bullshit.... The particular point, is even if they were to buff ADS RoF overall again later, the idea of the skill bonus being flatter is good for balancing in general. Very few skill bonuses are on the 10% per level scale, which is huge. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
CamClarke 0uter.Heaven 116	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:54:00 - [97] - Quote Thanks for the tip Breakin Stuff. My Python tends to go boom when I land to set up uplinks sometimes though (usually from a railtank I hadn't seen 250m away), and I like actually being able to defend myself with any other weapon if the Python is blown up or I get jumped while trying to set/clear uplinks. It's saved my skin many times while letting me continue to do my uplink thing. If I confine myself to the cockpit only though, I can see that being helpful.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2670	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:55:00 - [98] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think overuse is a good indication that something is OP and underuse is a good indication that something is UP. If this wasn't the case then FOTM wouldn't be such a widely used and understood acronym. It is a good indicator, but it is not definitive. For instance, Scrambler Rifles are not underpowered, but you don't see them as much because they take more skill to use. Buffing them would make them OP. Derrith Erador wrote: Untrue, you can use kin cats to run away. Kincats will not save me from an instakill shotgun. What instakills you? Derrith Erador wrote: I've been called OP for quite a while, you just don't hear it. The idea that I have more movement than you is simply because I'm an aerial vehicle, I'm supposed to have more freedom of freedom of movement than you I read this line as: I'm OP because I'm supposed to be OP. an instagib shotty I've only observed works on a scout, or a non protected suit, so if you're not tanking your suit, you deserve to die. and as to what protects you, most shotgunners worth a crap don't have much tank on their suit, so the person to protect you is... you. You read the line half right. I hate sounding pompous, but I am regarded as one (not the) of the most hired pilots in the game right now. I wouldn't be hired if I didn't have some skill in the ADS. I will repeat that I am the not the best pilot there is, but I believe the fact that I get hired frequently for PC should speak for itself (it also doesn't hurt that I don't charge for vehicle reimbursements, usually). The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2992	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:55:00 - [99] - Quote CamClarke wrote: Thanks for the tip Breakin Stuff. My Python tends to go boom when I land to set up uplinks sometimes though (usually from a railtank I hadn't seen 250m away), and I like actually being able to defend myself if the Python is blown up or I get jumped while trying to set/clear uplinks. It's saved my skin many times while letting me continue to do my uplink thing. If I confine myself to the cockpit only though, I can see that being helpful. One Sec. I will go make a noise post about this. ADS pilots need to keep it bumped
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3494	Posted - 2014.09.22 20:56:00 - [100] - Quote No need to charge for reimbursements, Derrith, when it's impossible for you to die. =) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2109	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:04:00 - [101] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: No need to charge for reimbursements, Derrith, when it's impossible for you to die. =) Whether you're trolling or just an idiot, that's not the way I expect my CPM to behave. Dust was real! I was there!
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 167	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:07:00 - [102] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: CamClarke wrote: I'd be fine with being killable by one swarmer if I could ever see them. I'd be nice if ADSes appeared on my minimap before they were ten meters away too. ;) Thor Odinson42 wrote: Do you really think ADS is better than anything other thing in the game? It really is. I get killed my Gal Scouts with REs and SGs or Cal Scouts with CR at least 100x more than I get killed by ADS. I have killed FAR more ADS than I've been killed by. I don't think I'm alone in this. It seems like you just have a unhealthy hatred for ADS. He does, but that's why he's not the only CPM member. Checks and balances lead to a better game, and in this case, Rhadamanthus =/= Soraya. I think the changes to ROF are a bit extreme when considering the Python, but perhaps justified for the Incubus. I would have left the Python alone and cut the Incubus in half. (I'm a dedicated PC Incubus pilot, so make of that what you will) Yeah but Rhadamanthus provides facts and evidence, Sorya you dont provide anything, why dont you ask new pilots how they feel about nerfing rof since youre speaking on behalf of them? A new pilot biggest worry isnt other dropships its av, im a 20 mil+ dropshipper, i know this sht like the back of my hands.You can ask me anything.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2671	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:15:00 - [103] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: No need to charge for reimbursements, Derrith, when it's impossible for you to die. =) wow, you really are an idiot. I die multiple times in PC, covering letters, avoiding rail incubi, clearing people off the high ground, where there is almost always some AV up there, getting links set up top, all the duties a good ADS pilot would do, and believe me, when I lose ADS, I normally allow my ADS to go down to help the team, if I have the opportunity. Then there are those moments where I get legitimately shot down. I'm not some tryhard who slams the flight ceiling every time I get a boo boo (granted I do use it if there's no other option), the simple reasoning being that if I slam the ceiling, I'm being less useful, taking more time to get down and blow up some midgets. We're not invincible, just that a lot of AV users these days are bad. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3495	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:18:00 - [104] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Yeah but Rhadamanthus provides facts and evidence, Sorya you dont provide anything, why dont you ask new pilots how they feel about nerfing rof since youre speaking on behalf of them? A new pilot biggest worry isnt other dropships its av, im a 20 mil+ dropshipper, i know this sht like the back of my hands.You can ask me anything. I am hesitant to talk too much about Judge's views versus mine, since he is not on right now to offer his own opinion, and I am a little afraid to misrepresent it. Judge likes numbers more than I do, he's better at them, but I feel the issue is conceptual, not numerical. Judge tends to speak, I think, from the perspective of an ADS pilot's ability to escape, whereas I speak from the perspective of an ADS pilot's ability to die. We don't agree conceptually, so we're rarely ever at the point where we're mincing numbers, IMHO. Also, while CCP bases a lot on internal statistics, those statistics are not public. I wouldn't say I'm speaking on behalf of new pilots. I'm speaking on behalf of everyone who gets shot by indestructible ADSes. My comment about new pilots vs. veteran pilots was a more comprehensive design point. A smaller skill bonus makes the entire class easier to balance, whether buffing it or nerfing it. My comment had nothing to do with dropships fighting other dropships. Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: No need to charge for reimbursements, Derrith, when it's impossible for you to die. =) Whether you're trolling or just an idiot, that's not the way I expect my CPM to behave. Please send instructions on how you expect your CPM to behave to [email protected] Thank you. =) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2996	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:19:00 - [105] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: No need to charge for reimbursements, Derrith, when it's impossible for you to die. =) wow, you really are an idiot. And you have failed to recognize a joke.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4675	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:22:00 - [106] - Quote Not gonna lie dude, you need to take some Midol. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2672	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:25:00 - [107] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Untrue, you can use kin cats to run away. KinCats have about as much utility on slow suits as a baseball bat in a soccer game. They don't add a flat speed, so if your suit goes faster (scouts) you benefit far more. Putting them on AV doesn't even begin to do anything that resembles an instant escape button. Depending on KinCats in an assault, Heavy, commando or Sentinel is like counting on winning the Publisher's Clearing House Sweepstakes to cover your bills for the next year. Really? I just tried a kin cat on a sentinel suit, and my Amarrican assault suit, and I adore it. helps me get out of the way of most fights I'm probably going to lose, thus I die less. I've also tried kin cats on my Forge fit, and it works wonders on ADS duels for me, if you know where to run when engaging them (straight towards them) Quote: You can also skill into a minmando, which I must've stated for the umpteenth time to fight the aggressor, unless it's an HMG, but there's no way to realistically expect any suit that isn't a heavy to kill it. My ass, the Minmando is the squishiest heavy suit in the game. It's killed by just about anyone and everything it doesn't get the drop on. Do you have a pulse? If so, your primary method of attack can probably kill it. That's because the Min race is built for speed/damage output. It wasn't meant to survive a bullet for bullet fight where each has equal damage. Add to the fact that the CR on a minmando coupled with one dmg mod has wrecked lots of my suits, and I've been fighting minmandos on ground and in air, it's not picknick fighting them 1v1. And even then, the minmando can tank enough to survive two to three shots approx. from a shotgun Quote: I've been called OP for quite a while, you just don't hear it. The idea that I have more movement than you is simply because I'm an aerial vehicle, I'm supposed to have more freedom of freedom of movement than you, that does not mean that you, as an AV user, are completely constricted to one area, you just choose to stay near your nanohives. I've flown in PCs, pubs, and FW's and 99% of all AV have never been more than 30 meters away from their hives. You CAN put Kin cats on your suits and move around, 99% of AV just choose not to. 99% of AV? this number is either an asspull or I've been ripped off and my AV suits are supposed to have equipment slots (Sentinel) or enough PG/CPU to actually run hives (Commando) the 1% I attribute to the people who get in tanks/lavs/DS to take me out. 99% is probably an over dramatization on my end, but the number is no more than 19% from the truth. Actually I have no idea how the RoF change will work out. But until we test it, we won't know. By the way, I don't mind if you argue with soraya about balance, but do please base your arguments upon facts, and not assumptions. Your arguments are flimsy and crap. He's basing his on assumptions, I do use facts, and previous experience. If you don't see it, I really don't care. Especially that BS "you aren't killing a minmando without an HMG" crap. What universe do you live in if you believe that? Never said you couldn't kill a minmando without an HMG, I said you couldn't kill an HMG without an HMG (in a proper 1v1 that is). [/quote] All my responses have been underlined, good sir. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2677	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:29:00 - [108] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Not gonna lie dude, you need to take some Midol. I'll agree with that. But ADS was the one thing that kept me playing this game because I had so much fun doing it. I'm going to back away from this thread now, I've said my piece, I'm out. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1794	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:31:00 - [109] - Quote Just wow. No discussion on something so huge. And that's with a dedicated pilot on the CPM. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1551	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:32:00 - [110] - Quote I'd still like to see the thread where we discussed changing the skill... So that this doesn't seem like the powers up above made decisions in the second most secret way they could have (first being day of Hotfix we see our skills changed). If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4676	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:33:00 - [111] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Not gonna lie dude, you need to take some Midol. I'll agree with that. But ADS was the one thing that kept me playing this game because I had so much fun doing it. I'm going to back away from this thread now, I've said my piece, I'm out. I was talking to Soraya Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3002	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:33:00 - [112] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Never said you couldn't kill a minmando without an HMG, I said you couldn't kill an HMG without an HMG (in a proper 1v1 that is). Uhhh... there is so much wrong with this simple statement i think I'm going to walk away now. I was going to comment about mandos having to pick between tank and gank, being no tougher than assaults... But mostly... our opinions differ. Personally I use all of the stuff you claim to know so well. Kincats won't let me outrun an assault. Just other fatties. I'm not worried about other fatties. I'm worried about the people who can catch me (everyone) 12% speed boost to 5 m/s run speed (average) is much, much less of a boost than what a scout gets. If KinCats added 1 m/s at STD, 2 m/s at ADV and 3 m/s at PRO I wouldn't disagree.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3495	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:33:00 - [113] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Not gonna lie dude, you need to take some Midol. I'll agree with that. But ADS was the one thing that kept me playing this game because I had so much fun doing it. I'm going to back away from this thread now, I've said my piece, I'm out. Being OP is fun. For you. It isn't fun for everyone else. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3496	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:39:00 - [114] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Not gonna lie dude, you need to take some Midol. Thor Odinson42 wrote: I was talking to Soraya I've been sick for about a week. Sometimes treating that includes painkillers. Mostly Acetaminophen, because it's in DayQuil. I took an Ibuprofen last week though at one point. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3004	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:41:00 - [115] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Not gonna lie dude, you need to take some Midol. Thor Odinson42 wrote: I was talking to Soraya I've been sick for about a week. Sometimes treating that includes painkillers. Mostly Acetaminophen, because it's in DayQuil. I took an Ibuprofen last week though at one point. You have now reached the crossroads of 'Suicidally inane" and "No one cares." Back up and return to rage harvesting, bypass this location and move to funny or turn left into "constructive" please.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 167	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:48:00 - [116] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Not gonna lie dude, you need to take some Midol. Thor Odinson42 wrote: I was talking to Soraya I've been sick for about a week. Sometimes treating that includes painkillers. Mostly Acetaminophen, because it's in DayQuil. I took an Ibuprofen last week though at one point. High doses of vitamin c powder. Or just get orange juice w lots of pulp. Has to be pulp the other stuffs just sugar water. Or get some food grade h2o2 if you have the time, havent been sick for about 2 years now since taking both.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3496	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:51:00 - [117] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Not gonna lie dude, you need to take some Midol. Thor Odinson42 wrote: I was talking to Soraya I've been sick for about a week. Sometimes treating that includes painkillers. Mostly Acetaminophen, because it's in DayQuil. I took an Ibuprofen last week though at one point. High doses of vitamin c powder. Or just get orange juice w lots of pulp. Has to be pulp the other stuffs just sugar water. Or get some food grade h2o2 if you have the time, havent been sick for about 2 years now since taking both. I've been taking both a multi-vitamin and vitamin C as well. I have those chewable vitamins because they were the same price as the pills, and I was like "heck, why not". I don't like orange juice with pulp in it, though they usually add vitamin C to the no pulp stuff, if I recall. Hydrogen peroxide isn't really intended for human consumption. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:56:00 - [118] - Quote "If it doesn't require teamwork to operate, it shouldn't require teamwork to kill" PLEASE remember that a dropship is an extra piece of equipment, a vehicle, that is brought into the match by a player. It cannot be equal in force to the other players who are only carrying what their dropsuits can hold. Also while you are preparing one, somewhere safe to get in the air, others are instantly spawning on objectives via uplinks. While flying around and escaping death, you are useless to your team. Even a new player can help distract the ennemy or provide cover fire for others. The truth is, every moment a dropship pilot is trying to save his ISK he is seriously hurting the team. My point with the above paragraph is balance in a tactical game like dust should NOT be 1 v 1, but by what each team can accomplish. a team of dropship pilots cannot hack objectives. The chess analogy is an excellent one. A pawn can capture a queen, but a pawn is no rook or bishop. Also you can have many pawns but only 2 knights in a match. Team vehicle resources would've been better balance then trying to make them "equal" to infantry. On a completely seperate note, I wouldn't have minded as much if the rate of fire skill for ADS was actually BUFFED and they removed the gun from the pilot seat. Get more gunner/pilot combos out in the sky.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3496	Posted - 2014.09.22 21:59:00 - [119] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: PLEASE remember that a dropship is an extra piece of equipment, a vehicle, that is brought into the match by a player. It cannot be equal in force to the other players who are only carrying what their dropsuits can hold. The problem is, this statement doesn't negate for the notion that it allows that player to be way more powerful than they should be. Kaeru Nayiri wrote: While flying around and escaping death, you are useless to your team. I am also useless to my team while dead. The difference is, my death cost me money. Kaeru Nayiri wrote: On a completely seperate note, I wouldn't have minded as much if the rate of fire skill for ADS was actually BUFFED and they removed the gun from the pilot seat. Get more gunner/pilot combos out in the sky. Then it would not be an ADS, and every single ADS pilot in the game would quit. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3009	Posted - 2014.09.22 22:03:00 - [120] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: "If it doesn't require teamwork to operate, it shouldn't require teamwork to kill" PLEASE remember that a dropship is an extra piece of equipment, a vehicle, that is brought into the match by a player. It cannot be equal in force to the other players who are only carrying what their dropsuits can hold. Also while you are preparing one, somewhere safe to get in the air, others are instantly spawning on objectives via uplinks. While flying around and escaping death, you are useless to your team. Even a new player can help distract the ennemy or provide cover fire for others. The truth is, every moment a dropship pilot is trying to save his ISK he is seriously hurting the team. My point with the above paragraph is balance in a tactical game like dust should NOT be 1 v 1, but by what each team can accomplish. a team of dropship pilots cannot hack objectives. The chess analogy is an excellent one. A pawn can capture a queen, but a pawn is no rook or bishop. Also you can have many pawns but only 2 knights in a match. Team vehicle resources would've been better balance then trying to make them "equal" to infantry. On a completely seperate note, I wouldn't have minded as much if the rate of fire skill for ADS was actually BUFFED and they removed the gun from the pilot seat. Get more gunner/pilot combos out in the sky. ADS = Queen Rook = HAV Bishop = AV Infantry. Here is the problem: Team imbalance. If one player can = 3 players, regardless of how he does it, that means there is an imbalance. If I, as AV cannot kill YOU (the dropship) then balance should dictate that YOU cannot kill ME. Otherwise there is no parity. So yes, I think that a solo AV gunner should have a chance to slaughter a solo ADS. I think a solo AV gunner should have a chance to kill a solo tank. Do I believe it should be a sure thing either way? Not for a goddamn moment.

Omega Black Zero Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 101	Posted - 2014.09.22 22:09:00 - [121] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Because ADS was just that OP. o_O That being said, there's also a benefit in ensuring newer pilots and more veteran pilots aren't 50% damage different. It's harder to balance for such a wide swing of capabilities. Namely that with such a wide variance of rate of fire, either the newbie will be useless or the veteran will be overpowered. With a smaller difference in the skill bonus, the entire class is easier to balance for. Glad I voted for you.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 432	Posted - 2014.09.22 22:21:00 - [122] - Quote Seriously, what is the problem with a RoF nerf? Aside from not firing as fast nothing about the ads changes. It is getting a price reduction and a small hp buff (not sure but i'll check) yet you all act like its getting nerfed into oblivion.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3499	Posted - 2014.09.22 22:26:00 - [123] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Seriously, what is the problem with a RoF nerf? Aside from not firing as fast nothing about the ads changes. It is getting a price reduction and a small hp buff (not sure but i'll check) yet you all act like its getting nerfed into oblivion. The other part of it is that swarms are being buffed so that they can sometimes maybe actually hit ADSes on occasion. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3022	Posted - 2014.09.22 22:45:00 - [124] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Seriously, what is the problem with a RoF nerf? Aside from not firing as fast nothing about the ads changes. It is getting a price reduction and a small hp buff (not sure but i'll check) yet you all act like its getting nerfed into oblivion. The other part of it is that swarms are being buffed so that they can sometimes maybe actually hit ADSes on occasion. Not "on occasion." The correct phrase is "more than once"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3022	Posted - 2014.09.22 22:45:00 - [125] - Quote Oh FFS double post.
FaustNeo 0	Posted - 2014.09.22 22:46:00 - [126] - Quote Nerf the ADS, buff the swarms launcher and balance the game. Yeah ads is really OP. Skilled pilots will be always good and can rock some forgegunners. o7 all
Atiim 12401	Posted - 2014.09.22 22:49:00 - [127] - Quote It was tough figuring out where to start, but I guess I'll give it a go. @Thread The RoF reduction was indeed necessary, as it'll bring the TTK to a time that actually makes sense (my alt only has Caldari ADS Operation Level III and I can still drop most suits in less than a second, including PRO ones. I also find it funny how Pilots forget (more like omit) the fact they have a skill which increases the damage of their Turrets, giving XT-1s 500HP of damage. The only thing that you should have even the slightest bit of trouble killing with that is a tanked out Caldari Sentinel, but you can easily escape their range in seconds (HF Delta won't change that either). @Derrith Erador "Dropships Aren't OP" The ability to kill any Dropsuit within <3s from a mid-long range engagement (50-75m), along with being able to remove yourself from the area the instant any threat arrives with 0 recourse or consequence for an indefinite period of time is indeed overpowered. It removes the risk involved with operating an ADS, and is significantly disproportional to the risk involved with operating an Anti-Vehicle weapon. "Use Kinetic Catalyzers" They don't compare to the efficiency of the Afterburner. The most a KinCat will ever yield (on a MinCom) is +0.78m/s, bringing your Sprint Speed to 7.03m/s. Considering how ADSs have a base movement speed of 50m/s, they'll be running circles around you (not saying that MinComs should be as fast as 59m/s. When you also take into account that 7.03m/s isn't fast enough to escape any engagement (beyond being pitted against a Sentinel w/SG or NKs), your comparison is so laughable that it makes me begin to question your credibility. Not only that, but KinCats are completely impractical to fit, as to use them without ruining your AV fit you need to use a PG Extender, in which case you'll have no buffer (making you lunch to any ADS Pilot with a light investment), or have no Armor Repair, making your buffer useless. "Assault Dropships Require Teamwork" You must've never looked at the definition of require. After extensively experimenting and flying ADSs myself I can confirm that the only thing about it that requires teamwork is skill stacking. You can operate every aspect of the aircraft without the need for intervention or assistance from an ally, along with 1v1 most AVers. "Pilot's Are Just Skilled" Yes, I'm sure sprinting to the flight ceiling every time something that as much as breathes at you, along with slaughtering entire group of people by looking in their general direction requires skill. Heck, even surviving 20GJ Particle Cannons are that difficult if you stay out of the FOV and have an AB. Maybe you're referring to the skill stacking bug (which technically does require skill), but after my tests I can confirm that most of players assertions of ADSs being difficult are wild exaggerations. @Vulpes Dolosus I'm glad to see that you're concerned with whether or not my intentions are to create a balanced environment for all, but you should put the tinfoil hat away. Leave the conspiracies to the pros, like Pyrex or BAMM. As much as you'd love to dismiss my assertions by writing them off as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, anyone with the slightest bit of competence can see that every assertion I've made on the SL/ADS is indeed factual, and I can assure you that they're replicable in-game as well. And at the risk of sounding inflammatory, you may want to get better with your Incubus. A Commando with a SL and your Particle Cannon, yet you still couldn't kill me? Come on man. @Thor Odinson42 As much as we all hate death, I fail to see how SLs being capable of killing ADSs will kill the role. Pilots will still be able to kill you in spans of 1.4-2.8s, while being able to travel to practically all locations on the map at will, and even flee engagements in a manner of seconds. As for ADSs not being the best tool in the game, can you show me one item/fit which can escape any engagement in under 3s, kill any Dropsuit fitting alive in 3s (or less), while also being able to kill every unit in the game without having to swamp fittings? Also, Quantity Gëá Quality. In all my time of playing DUST, I've been killed by ARs 100s of times, while I've only been killed by a Burst HMG about 20. Dispite this however, I'm sure (at least I hope) you know that Burst HMGs are far better than ARs. Soraya Xel wrote: No need to charge for reimbursements, Derrith, when it's impossible for you to die. =) To be fair, I did kill his ADS about 3 times in a PC. But that was most likely because he was to busy laughing at the fact that an FC would put a SL on AV. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1259	Posted - 2014.09.22 22:56:00 - [128] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor, if the players won't play the role if it's balanced, is that an excuse to keep it overpowered? Where's my escape button? I want an escape button that makes my swarm suit able to completely avoid any threat to it whenever I choose. That's why I voted for this dude right here (second to Appia). Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3141	Posted - 2014.09.22 23:03:00 - [129] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Derrith, you're still talking about being "locked off from an area". Have you ever, you know, "died"? Yes, when I actually go in those areas, which I'm not dumb enough to do unless absolutely necessary. Now, on the opposite, consider that as a swarm launcher user, I can be instakilled anywhere by a shotgunner, HMG, combat rifle, nova knifer, or of course, your ADS. I have no way to rapidly leave the area faster than any other class in the game. Do you have any idea of just how ridiculously OP you are? The idea that you can leave an area of engagement until someone takes care of the threat is a luxury no infantry, and certainly no AV has. So do you not get on the high ground with swarms? Seems stupid not too as it brings you closer and range you say is a problem as well as making it next to impossible for infantry to kill you depending on where you are. Tanker/Logi/Assault
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 427	Posted - 2014.09.22 23:09:00 - [130] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: poison Diego wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? BECAUSE I SPECED 2,5 mill SP FOR IT U F*CKTARD And this is the lamest reason ever. Balance > Your SP output Bro do you think anyone will ever spec in the ADS after they nerf it that hard? I have now waisted about 15 mill sp into dropships and I am really pissed if they will destroy it like that. This is like the old days when a dev got an idea of what should be nerfed and then just nerfs it so hard that it will be unusable(flaylock pistol) or the other way around where they would buff something up to the stars (tanks 1.7 + the swarm launcher nerf at the same time) I remember those days Now they are doing it all over again the other way around, nerfing everything that is good about the ADS and buffing the weapons countering them. This is not fair and I think most could agree on that.

Skippy Longstocking Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2014.09.22 23:10:00 - [131] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Seriously, what is the problem with a RoF nerf? Aside from not firing as fast nothing about the ads changes. It is getting a price reduction and a small hp buff (not sure but i'll check) yet you all act like its getting nerfed into oblivion. The other part of it is that swarms are being buffed so that they can sometimes maybe actually hit ADSes on occasion. Don't forget about the nerf to Swarm's turning radius.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2678	Posted - 2014.09.22 23:20:00 - [132] - Quote Atiim wrote: It was tough figuring out where to start, but I guess I'll give it a go. @Thread The RoF reduction was indeed necessary, as it'll bring the TTK to a time that actually makes sense (my alt only has Caldari ADS Operation Level III and I can still drop most suits in less than a second, including PRO ones. I also find it funny how Pilots forget (more like omit) the fact they have a skill which increases the damage of their Turrets, giving XT-1s 500HP of damage. The only thing that you should have even the slightest bit of trouble killing with that is a tanked out Caldari Sentinel, but you can easily escape their range in seconds (HF Delta won't change that either). @Derrith Erador "Dropships Aren't OP" The ability to kill any Dropsuit within <3s from a mid-long range engagement (50-75m), along with being able to remove yourself from the area the instant any threat arrives with 0 recourse or consequence for an indefinite period of time is indeed overpowered. It removes the risk involved with operating an ADS, and is significantly disproportional to the risk involved with operating an Anti-Vehicle weapon. "Use Kinetic Catalyzers" They don't compare to the efficiency of the Afterburner. The most a KinCat will ever yield (on a MinCom) is +0.78m/s, bringing your Sprint Speed to 7.03m/s. Considering how ADSs have a base movement speed of 50m/s, they'll be running circles around you (not saying that MinComs should be as fast as 59m/s. When you also take into account that 7.03m/s isn't fast enough to escape any engagement (beyond being pitted against a Sentinel w/SG or NKs), your comparison is so laughable that it makes me begin to question your credibility. Not only that, but KinCats are completely impractical to fit, as to use them without ruining your AV fit you need to use a PG Extender, in which case you'll have no buffer (making you lunch to any ADS Pilot with a light investment), or have no Armor Repair, making your buffer useless. "Assault Dropships Require Teamwork" You must've never looked at the definition of require. After extensively experimenting and flying ADSs myself I can confirm that the only thing about it that requires teamwork is skill stacking. You can operate every aspect of the aircraft without the need for intervention or assistance from an ally, along with 1v1 most AVers. "Pilot's Are Just Skilled" Yes, I'm sure sprinting to the flight ceiling every time something that as much as breathes at you, along with slaughtering entire group of people by looking in their general direction requires skill. Heck, even surviving 20GJ Particle Cannons are that difficult if you stay out of the FOV and have an AB. Maybe you're referring to the skill stacking bug (which technically does require skill), but after my tests I can confirm that most of players assertions of ADSs being difficult are wild exaggerations. I swore I wouldn't say anything more on this thread, but apparently I have to break that vow. I never said weren't OP. In this thread, show me EXACTLY where I said it. I even said it was OP. What I DID actually say is that the nerf they're giving is WAY overboard. Kin cats: I don't see how everybody is so scared to run this thing on their AV fit. I run this thing on every fit I own, and I enjoy it greatly. Works wonders with everything I do. I even have on on an Amando, and like using it. it requires teamwork: You ever got shot down by two sets of swarms about 10 meters apart from each other? If those swarms are ADV, I'm going to die if they catch me slipping. And if I escape, then that area is completely blocked off to me, unless I get someone to drop out and help me handle them, I will remain useless in the fight. It is true I can solo most AV, but when the two most common forms of infantry AV requires you to be deadly accurate in a sentinel suit, and the other requires you to lock on and release, it becomes a question of who is the most skilled. If I can take out a forge or swarm solo, it becomes a true and proper 1v1. Your only backing statement i see is slamming the flight ceiling, in which if you remember anything of what I said, you'd know that I despise this tactic unless I have no other choice. I even said proposed to lower the flight ceiling, it gets very tiring having to have incubus pilots duel me by slamming the flight ceiling. And no, I'm not referring to the skill stacking bug. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 782	Posted - 2014.09.22 23:25:00 - [133] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: No need to charge for reimbursements, Derrith, when it's impossible for you to die. =) I hope that was humor. In PC, the place Derrith mostly flies, dropships do not last long without support. That's where your "Teamwork" comes in, Soraya. Living proof that the Amarr can't do anything without the Caldari
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 427	Posted - 2014.09.22 23:27:00 - [134] - Quote It is such bull being in the minority where 99.9% of the comunity can **** all over you and say thats just fair because its hard to kill with my militia swarm launcher. Please guys try to ADS kill 10 people in a game and dont die. Thats right! its almost impossible unless u have been doing it for a LONG time=(lot of isk I mean) As soon as people see you getting kills with your python half the team has AV out already. I want my ADS SP back so I can get more proficiency in the shotgunn to kill every single f*ck I see using swarmlauncher
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3508	Posted - 2014.09.22 23:30:00 - [135] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So do you not get on the high ground with swarms? Seems stupid not too as it brings you closer and range you say is a problem as well as making it next to impossible for infantry to kill you depending on where you are. A lot of the time, the high ground is out of lock range of the ADS, since there is less and less good high ground that's reachable without a dropship of your own. Lock range on swarms is one of the things I wished CCP would've buffed. Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: No need to charge for reimbursements, Derrith, when it's impossible for you to die. =) I hope that was humor. In PC, the place Derrith mostly flies, dropships do not last long without support. That's where your "Teamwork" comes in, Soraya. Yes, that's why there was a smiley attached. Some people didn't notice. My posting style bounces from practical advice and solid discussion to trolling. Try to keep up, Darth. ;) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 428	Posted - 2014.09.22 23:53:00 - [136] - Quote Skippy Longstocking wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Seriously, what is the problem with a RoF nerf? Aside from not firing as fast nothing about the ads changes. It is getting a price reduction and a small hp buff (not sure but i'll check) yet you all act like its getting nerfed into oblivion. The other part of it is that swarms are being buffed so that they can sometimes maybe actually hit ADSes on occasion. Don't forget about the nerf to Swarm's turning radius. By about 11%?? thats not gonna change jack sht I want my ADS SP back so I can get more proficiency in the shotgunn to kill every single fck I see using swarmlauncher
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 981	Posted - 2014.09.22 23:57:00 - [137] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? For killing tanks and other dropships. Honestly wont effect infantry killing potential at all. What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 3306	Posted - 2014.09.23 00:07:00 - [138] - Quote Derrith wrote: I swore I wouldn't say anything more on this thread, but apparently I have to break that vow. I never said weren't OP. In this thread, show me EXACTLY where I said it. I even said it was OP. What I DID actually say is that the nerf they're giving is WAY overboard. Kin cats: I don't see how everybody is so scared to run this thing on their AV fit. I run this thing on every fit I own, and I enjoy it greatly. Works wonders with everything I do. I even have on on an Amando, and like using it. it requires teamwork: You ever got shot down by two sets of swarms about 10 meters apart from each other? If those swarms are ADV, I'm going to die if they catch me slipping. And if I escape, then that area is completely blocked off to me, unless I get someone to drop out and help me handle them, I will remain useless in the fight. It is true I can solo most AV, but when the two most common forms of infantry AV requires you to be deadly accurate in a sentinel suit, and the other requires you to lock on and release, it becomes a question of who is the most skilled. If I can take out a forge or swarm solo, it becomes a true and proper 1v1. Your only backing statement i see is slamming the flight ceiling, in which if you remember anything of what I said, you'd know that I despise this tactic unless I have no other choice. I even said proposed to lower the flight ceiling, it gets very tiring having to have incubus pilots duel me by slamming the flight ceiling. And no, I'm not referring to the skill stacking bug. I'd say the nerf was strong... but nessecary to a degree just to flatten out the difference between a vet and newb pilot, 15% damage is much more sensible than 50% more damage that's 2 free active damage mods... Kin Cats: it's not worth it honestly I'm better off getting an incubus and ramming, I've the ISK and SP to do so and it's easier than running or getting a car to do AV Teamwork, depends on map and locations of enemies and friendlies, but there's times when team work is a requirement and times where you can get by without it. http://evil-guide.tripod.com/
Atiim 12403	Posted - 2014.09.23 00:21:00 - [139] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So do you not get on the high ground with swarms? Seems stupid not too as it brings you closer and range you say is a problem as well as making it next to impossible for infantry to kill you depending on where you are. High Ground and Swarm Launchers do not mix. For one, you only have a 175m range, and considering how most "high-grounds" are around 80-90m above, you've effectively cut your already low range in half. Not to mention that being on high-ground makes it harder to delay the 1st volley, and makes the SL path much more predictable. That, and you're more vulnerable to ADSs, as there's much less room to strafe and jump around when the missiles start coming at you (which is exactly why you'll never see me on the rings w/Swarms in a PUB or PC). The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1233	Posted - 2014.09.23 00:28:00 - [140] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Holy crap I have a chance to return fire against skilled pilots. Maybe now basic drop ships won't be used as attack platforms. it doesn't make any difference to basic dropships because the ROF bonus only applied to ADS AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012

TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1234	Posted - 2014.09.23 00:33:00 - [141] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Bethhy wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. This reduction with a 50-100% survivability increase would make sense. Right now dropships are offensive platforms... That kill most things in 1-3 shots... Kill most vehicles in one volley... And the balancing method to that? Allow them to take 2-4 shots and they die. Instead of having mobile spawning platforms and rewarding pilots for troop transport... And allowing them to provide somewhat sustained cover fire without having to run away after taking a hit. Would do nothing but improve everyday DUST gameplay.. Currently the way Dropships work currently are as glorified Fighters. All gank and no tank... It's one of the biggest WTF's in the game. Red-lining would barely be a thing if dropships where actually used how CCP advertised them. Most vehicles in one volley? Ever tried taking on even a basic Soma with no reps or a Hardener? Even with the damage bonus against armor it'll take me at least 2 full magazines with every missile hitting to actually get the kill, and that's pretty hard to pull off when they start moving and snapping backwards and forwards to throw off your aim. yea that one volley claim is a buncha crap.. it takes a whole ammo reserve to kill most gallente HAV.. if they want to glass cannon a caldari that's not an issue of dropship being OP it's a choice they make. also if a dropship is all gank and no tank then why are ppl crying that they can't kill one.. just remove the dropship already, the 7th iteration is already heading for major suck. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 868	Posted - 2014.09.23 01:16:00 - [142] - Quote I declare ADS useless being nerfed by buff Looking back to ADS history, many have forgotten why the full dmg build was chosen. It was not because it was op, it was simply because the role of derpship pilot was not viable and the only way to not have a pointless role in gm was to turn it into a killing machine. That's all you would've of done. Anything else was considered trolling. While the ADS has not been affected directly, it was been getting nerfed after every hot-fix because of the buffs in other areas. ADS is already shut down because of installation tankiness buff, to further the nerf, blaster installations received the ability to auto attack ADS without aggro. 2-3 unmanned installations force the ADS to remain out of battle. Nerfing the RoF... I dont really care much about it in itself. But look at the other changes. Afterburners also because a major ingredient in the Full offensive derpship role. they are getting nerfed as well with that 40 sec CD increase. What allowed a derpship to perform hit and runs will now have to fire 2-3 missiles, only to remain out of battle for 40 sec. Again, but buffing AV weapons, which i dont mind either, indirectly nerfs the ADS. Swarm missiles will travel faster and do more dmg, which really isnt required anymore since most afterburners will be on CD so ADS wont have speed boost. As to buffs, only the standard derpships are receiving ehp/pg/cpu increases. ADS is only getting a price reduction As you can see, it seems that many of the changes outside of ADS has been with the goal of shutting down ADS indirectly. Each buff alone would merit the buff and still allow for a fair fight with ads. but the combined changes in all the past hotfixes have been to combat the ADS to the point of meeting it utterly useless. I agree that the ADS shouldnt be a full dmg vehicle. but taking away that role does not introduce new ones. by shutting down the ADS it will not turn it into the transport vehicle we all dreamed it would be, it will not turn it into the sup vehicle we all wanted (logi DS), and it will not become that rescue vehicle expected to go into hotzones for extractions. By taking away its only role, we are returning to its former and most notable role of being a flying sightseeing vehicle where its only use will be to appreciate the background art of each map and to sacrifice in order to reach a roof. -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
hfderrtgvcd 507	Posted - 2014.09.23 01:26:00 - [143] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: I declare ADS useless being nerfed by buff Looking back to ADS history, many have forgotten why the full dmg build was chosen. It was not because it was op, it was simply because the role of derpship pilot was not viable and the only way to not have a pointless role in gm was to turn it into a killing machine. That's all you would've of done. Anything else was considered trolling. While the ADS has not been affected directly, it was been getting nerfed after every hot-fix because of the buffs in other areas. ADS is already shut down because of installation tankiness buff, to further the nerf, blaster installations received the ability to auto attack ADS without aggro. 2-3 unmanned installations force the ADS to remain out of battle. Nerfing the RoF... I dont really care much about it in itself. But look at the other changes. Afterburners also because a major ingredient in the Full offensive derpship role. they are getting nerfed as well with that 40 sec CD increase. What allowed a derpship to perform hit and runs will now have to fire 2-3 missiles, only to remain out of battle for 40 sec. Again, but buffing AV weapons, which i dont mind either, indirectly nerfs the ADS. Swarm missiles will travel faster and do more dmg, which really isnt required anymore since most afterburners will be on CD so ADS wont have speed boost. As to buffs, only the standard derpships are receiving ehp/pg/cpu increases. ADS is only getting a price reduction As you can see, it seems that many of the changes outside of ADS has been with the goal of shutting down ADS indirectly. Each buff alone would merit the buff and still allow for a fair fight with ads. but the combined changes in all the past hotfixes have been to combat the ADS to the point of meeting it utterly useless. I agree that the ADS shouldnt be a full dmg vehicle. but taking away that role does not introduce new ones. by shutting down the ADS it will not turn it into the transport vehicle we all dreamed it would be, it will not turn it into the sup vehicle we all wanted (logi DS), and it will not become that rescue vehicle expected to go into hotzones for extractions. By taking away its only role, we are returning to its former and most notable role of being a flying sightseeing vehicle where its only use will be to appreciate the background art of each map and to sacrifice in order to reach a roof. just curious, when was the last time you flew in a pc? You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Juno Tristan Inner.Hell 75	Posted - 2014.09.23 02:30:00 - [144] - Quote Do I think swarms should win in a 1 v 1 fight with an ADS? No Because this hypothetical 1 V 1 fight doesn't exist, ADS' are highly visible and its pretty rare you're only being shot at by one thing Also, scouts and cloaks, pretty easy to run like an ADS

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7782	Posted - 2014.09.23 02:37:00 - [145] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2371528#post2371528 "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

The Master Race Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 20	Posted - 2014.09.23 02:46:00 - [146] - Quote I think ads were meant to be support drop ships and not meat grinders I mean with ads the way they are and tanks you can't even move a squad down field against coordinated armor. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Juno Tristan Inner.Hell 75	Posted - 2014.09.23 02:57:00 - [147] - Quote Also the reason why so many ADS' run and then return from swarm users is they know a head-on fight is a bad idea and they're trying to draw down your ammo
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2014.09.23 19:06:00 - [148] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: PLEASE remember that a dropship is an extra piece of equipment, a vehicle, that is brought into the match by a player. It cannot be equal in force to the other players who are only carrying what their dropsuits can hold. The problem is, this statement doesn't negate for the notion that it allows that player to be way more powerful than they should be. You need to clarify this for me, I don't understand it. Quote: While flying around and escaping death, you are useless to your team. I am also useless to my team while dead. The difference is, my death cost me money. You're implying dying in a dropship doesn't cost money.. I die in every dropship I fly (it crushes me mid air whenever I try to get out) and I lose 2 dropships per match on average. I've been trying to do this for 6 months. Everyone is useless dead, a dropship is useless even when it's ALIVE but denied access to the match. It also cannot hack objectives even if an area is clear for a moment. Quote: On a completely seperate note, I wouldn't have minded as much if the rate of fire skill for ADS was actually BUFFED and they removed the gun from the pilot seat. Get more gunner/pilot combos out in the sky. Then it would not be an ADS, and every single ADS pilot in the game would quit, as opposed to the half of them that will because they don't like game balance. I think a standard dropship with a gunner should be more powerful than an ADS pilot solo. What makes an assault dropship is the rate of fire, it doesn't matter if it's from the gunner or the pilot. If the pilot has no gun, the gunner will get the rate of fire bonus and it's still an assault dropship. More DPS then a regular dropship and less seats to carry infantry.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3061	Posted - 2014.09.23 19:45:00 - [149] - Quote I'd like to see the ADS changed to a pure gunship. No passengers except the gunners (if any). We have transports. They do the job. The ADS is a gunship. we should treat it as such.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 434	Posted - 2014.09.23 19:47:00 - [150] - Quote 50% bonus was still too much. ADS aren't supposed to be these magical things that solo tanks and infantry at the same time, they are supposed to provide troop transport and cover fire for infantry.

Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2014.09.23 20:01:00 - [151] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd like to see the ADS changed to a pure gunship. No passengers except the gunners (if any). We have transports. They do the job. The ADS is a gunship. we should treat it as such. Echo 1991 wrote: 50% bonus was still too much. ADS aren't supposed to be these magical things that solo tanks and infantry at the same time, they are supposed to provide troop transport and cover fire for infantry. Agreed on both points 100%
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 479	Posted - 2014.09.23 20:13:00 - [152] - Quote Well my 'tryhard' dropship is actually an incubus with xt missiles... So these changes do nothing to me... On the downside my blaster fit will suck donkey balls without a decent fire rate boost (as a front turret) because keeping that thing aimed at someone for more than half a second is near impossible (unless they stand still.) Also, double small rail nerf, probably wont make them that bad, but not gonna be worth using over missiles... Basically you're gonna see more xt-missiles... Then they'll get nerfed, then finally all the pilots will learn not to fly because solo ground troop players (like our beloved hotfixer) get annoyed when they can't run around in the open without av to cover them. And on the up side I can't ***** at turret stackers anymore, because they're still gonna shoot slower than a solo pilot pre-Delta, lol.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 341	Posted - 2014.09.23 20:29:00 - [153] - Quote Another great hotfix that reveals players true skill. They never had none. 'Scouts are balanced' checks wallhacks, sprints the fastest in the game and shotguns out of cloak Mad skills bro...
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 332	Posted - 2014.09.23 21:19:00 - [154] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2371528#post2371528 Ya know doing stuff like that without any discussion before just leads to 8 pages full of rage as you can see. Espacially cause you discussed allmost everything before even if its just a small change you did it. But that went way too far i could had argued about like from 10% down to 5% per lvl but 3%? Thats barely something worth going for and im sure if there will be any ADS pilots left they gonna just put a missile turret on the incubus and the python will rott in hell cause now it neither has firepower or tank. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Jaselyn Cabellos G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 102	Posted - 2014.09.23 21:24:00 - [155] - Quote Holy Gawd what are you guys doing to my precious Dropshipses? Y? Y U DU DIS SEESEEPEE? Flying Mouse and Keyboard since:
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3551	Posted - 2014.09.23 21:26:00 - [156] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: You need to clarify this for me, I don't understand it. Literally that no amount of money you bring on the field should make you just naturally superior to all other players the way many vehicles currently do. Kaeru Nayiri wrote: You're implying dying in a dropship doesn't cost money.. I die in every dropship I fly (it crushes me mid air whenever I try to get out) and I lose 2 dropships per match on average. I've been trying to do this for 6 months. Everyone is useless dead, a dropship is useless even when it's ALIVE but denied access to the match. It also cannot hack objectives even if an area is clear for a moment. It's common to blow a few million ISK worth of swarm suits just to fail to kill a dropship in pubs. Kaeru Nayiri wrote: What makes an assault dropship is the rate of fire, it doesn't matter if it's from the gunner or the pilot. If the pilot has no gun, the gunner will get the rate of fire bonus and it's still an assault dropship. More DPS then a regular dropship and less seats to carry infantry. Similar to solo tankers, ADS pilots playstyle is that of both moving and firing at once. This is a somewhat OP role design (I complain about this a lot), but I'm just saying, ask Derrith how he'd respond if CCP took his gun away instead. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
The Master Race Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 30	Posted - 2014.09.23 21:26:00 - [157] - Quote Are you a scout bright cloud It seems like I have heard that hp is all that matters whats mobility have to do with it argument before. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 785	Posted - 2014.09.23 21:46:00 - [158] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: I hope that was humor. In PC, the place Derrith mostly flies, dropships do not last long without support. That's where your "Teamwork" comes in, Soraya. Yes, that's why there was a smiley attached. Some people didn't notice. My posting style bounces from practical advice and solid discussion to trolling. Try to keep up, Darth. ;) And this is why the forums are such an imperfect place to discuss meaningful changes. Perhaps if there was a place the CPM could go to talk with players directly... Voice to voice... Like a weekly podcast... -smiley face Living proof that the Amarr can't do anything without the Caldari
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3075	Posted - 2014.09.23 21:52:00 - [159] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Similar to solo tankers, ADS pilots playstyle is that of both moving and firing at once. This is a somewhat OP role design (I complain about this a lot), but I'm just saying, ask Derrith how he'd respond if CCP took his gun away instead. This is where I disagree with you. Motion is life and firing on the move is the gold standard of vehicular weapon systems even in modern times. Movement = Life. Standing still = Death. Vehicles should fire on the move.
CRAZYHORSE ONE EIGHT CowTek 78	Posted - 2014.09.23 22:01:00 - [160] - Quote So they can't fix the skill stacking without a client side update so they nerf the rof skill, which will make skill stacking the only viable option. Great. Super sh!tty fix. Still no word on fixing the turret proficiency skills either. Not even an acknowledgment that they are not working correctly.

The Master Race Immortal Guides 33	Posted - 2014.09.23 22:03:00 - [161] - Quote They could make it so pilots can only fly in first person view. No instant detection of threats Reduced aim and location of targets increased awareness req. I don't really expect them to do it just tossing it out there. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Omega Black Zero Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2014.09.23 22:18:00 - [162] - Quote The Master Race wrote: They could make it so pilots can only fly in first person view. No instant detection of threats Reduced aim and location of targets increased awareness req. I don't really expect them to do it just tossing it out there. You'd still need to have sensors, radar, warning signals for when you get locked on, and countermeasures such as flares or chaff to redirect locked on attacks. Those are the things that I'd think separate a transport drop ship from an assault dropship especially. The scenario for using both dropships in tandem, in my mind, should work Assault dropship comes in, checks area for hostiles, clears the drop zone for the transports, who come in and drop their load, while being escorted by the assault dropship. The assault dropship reduced transport load would be perfect from carrying preliminary scouts to come in and clear buildings if required or an AV unit for taking out HAVs. I never really felt the ADS should be an AV and anti infantry platform as much as a spearhead escort for transporting troops across the battlefield, providing recon and preliminary attack to allow for a successful troop drop. Maybe we'll see them take that route more in Legion?
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1113	Posted - 2014.09.23 22:32:00 - [163] - Quote The Incubus will no longer be able to kill half decently built tanks and the Python will still **** infantry \o/ Amarrica! It's Not Safe to Swim.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 332	Posted - 2014.09.23 22:53:00 - [164] - Quote The Master Race wrote: Are you a scout bright cloud It seems like I have heard that hp is all that matters whats mobility have to do with it argument before. I play allmost everything on this game. And you cant compare scouts to dropships. Its a well known fact that the Incubus has much better tanking and still has good speed compared to the python. Sure the mobility is a bit less on it but the tanking makes it so much more worth it. When the python exploded the incubus is "badly damaged" but it survives and surviving and death are usually a difference of 500k ISK. Thats why Incubus>Python before the patch and espacially after the patch. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3556	Posted - 2014.09.23 23:02:00 - [165] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Similar to solo tankers, ADS pilots playstyle is that of both moving and firing at once. This is a somewhat OP role design (I complain about this a lot), but I'm just saying, ask Derrith how he'd respond if CCP took his gun away instead. This is where I disagree with you. Motion is life and firing on the move is the gold standard of vehicular weapon systems even in modern times. Movement = Life. Standing still = Death. Vehicles should fire on the move. They should. Because they should have someone doing the moving and someone doing the firing. Solo vehicles of any sort should die horribly, IMHO. Which is why a single player shouldn't be able to do both at once. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
BAMM HAVOC Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 567	Posted - 2014.09.23 23:23:00 - [166] - Quote Atiim wrote: I'm glad to see that you're concerned with whether or not my intentions are to create a balanced environment for all, but you should put the tinfoil hat away. Leave the conspiracies to the pros, like Pyrex or BAMM... no tin foil here, just watching ... always watching. YOU TUBES BEERCANATER PLUS BACON !
Agent Monroe Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 40	Posted - 2014.09.23 23:34:00 - [167] - Quote Calm down everyone, CCP is just trying to make us dislike the game more over time to make it easier when they finally pull the plug. This message was brought to you by Gives Zero Flux. (Insert Witty Ad Here)
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3562	Posted - 2014.09.24 01:52:00 - [168] - Quote Agent Monroe wrote: Calm down everyone, CCP is just trying to make us dislike the game more over time to make it easier when they finally pull the plug. Except most players in the game will be thrilled and enjoy the game even more. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Juno Tristan Inner.Hell 76	Posted - 2014.09.24 02:44:00 - [169] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Agent Monroe wrote: Calm down everyone, CCP is just trying to make us dislike the game more over time to make it easier when they finally pull the plug. Except most players in the game will be thrilled and enjoy the game even more. Soraya, I'm curious to know what you think is the point of having vehicles in the game?
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 168	Posted - 2014.09.24 02:54:00 - [170] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Agent Monroe wrote: Calm down everyone, CCP is just trying to make us dislike the game more over time to make it easier when they finally pull the plug. Except most players in the game will be thrilled and enjoy the game even more. Soraya, I'm curious to know what you think is the point of having vehicles in the game? Im sure infantry support, but infantry having to support vehicles out of the question.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3582	Posted - 2014.09.24 04:44:00 - [171] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Soraya, I'm curious to know what you think is the point of having vehicles in the game? Vehicles, in my opinion, should be a force multiplier of coordinated behavior. Whether that's infantry supporting the vehicle (protecting it from AV, for instance) or a team-based vehicle which is effective only with multiple participants aboard. I don't think vehicles should ever allow a single player to outright be superior to infantry. I believe a solo driver in a tank should be borderline useless. But a team of three coordinated people operating a tank should be an unstoppable death machine. Vehicles should enable and encourage team play, not be an excuse to avoid it. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 171	Posted - 2014.09.24 05:05:00 - [172] - Quote [quotesoraya Xel] Juno Tristan wrote: Soraya, I'm curious to know what you think is the point of having vehicles in the game? Vehicles, in my opinion, should be a force multiplier of coordinated behavior. Whether that's infantry supporting the vehicle (protecting it from AV, for instance) or a team-based vehicle which is effective only with multiple participants aboard. I don't think vehicles should ever allow a single player to outright be superior to infantry. I believe a solo driver in a tank should be borderline useless. But a team of three coordinated people operating a tank should be an unstoppable death machine. Vehicles should enable and encourage team play, not be an excuse to avoid it.[/quote] Theyre already force multipliers and i dont see how you can nerf solo vehicles to uselessness while simultaneously making gunner vehicles viable.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 171	Posted - 2014.09.24 05:06:00 - [173] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Soraya, I'm curious to know what you think is the point of having vehicles in the game? Vehicles, in my opinion, should be a force multiplier of coordinated behavior. Whether that's infantry supporting the vehicle (protecting it from AV, for instance) or a team-based vehicle which is effective only with multiple participants aboard. I don't think vehicles should ever allow a single player to outright be superior to infantry. I believe a solo driver in a tank should be borderline useless. But a team of three coordinated people operating a tank should be an unstoppable death machine. Vehicles should enable and encourage team play, not be an excuse to avoid it. Theyre already force multipliers and i dont see how you can nerf solo vehicles to uselessness while simultaneously making gunner vehicles viable.
Juno Tristan Inner.Hell 77	Posted - 2014.09.24 05:16:00 - [174] - Quote Then how about we add some actual bonuses for having multiple people in vehicles because currently 3 people in a tank is little more than a points pinata I'm thinking add each passenger's shields and armour rep rate to the vehicle
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1804	Posted - 2014.09.24 05:18:00 - [175] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Soraya, I'm curious to know what you think is the point of having vehicles in the game? Vehicles, in my opinion, should be a force multiplier of coordinated behavior. Whether that's infantry supporting the vehicle (protecting it from AV, for instance) or a team-based vehicle which is effective only with multiple participants aboard. I don't think vehicles should ever allow a single player to outright be superior to infantry. I believe a solo driver in a tank should be borderline useless. But a team of three coordinated people operating a tank should be an unstoppable death machine. Vehicles should enable and encourage team play, not be an excuse to avoid it. To that end, doesn't skill stacking fall in line with that principle? Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
The Master Race Immortal Guides 34	Posted - 2014.09.24 05:22:00 - [176] - Quote It does and now you will get 75% for a ads load right? Ads need more turrets I think for the other passengers. I would be kind of cramped with all seats up front though so if you guys ever make another model you might do front and back seats. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
FaustNeo 0	Posted - 2014.09.24 05:42:00 - [177] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: The Incubus will no longer be able to kill half decently built tanks and the Python will still **** infantry \o/ Lmfao . Even an incubus with XT-1 can kill infantry so easily in PC and public matches
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3586	Posted - 2014.09.24 06:37:00 - [178] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: To that end, doesn't skill stacking fall in line with that principle? Heh. Kinda. o_O Juno Tristan wrote: Then how about we add some actual bonuses for having multiple people in vehicles because currently 3 people in a tank is little more than a points pinata I'm thinking add each passenger's shields and armour rep rate to the vehicle Particularly, my perfect view of HAVs would be the driver getting the small forward turret (which has a limited firing arc, it would be easy to flank a tank with only a driver), have the second seat be the main turret, and the third seat control the top small turret with better visibility as well as the logistics modules. A single person could use any of the features of the tanks by switching seats (like with a LAV now), but at the obvious limitation of not being able to do all at once. Then, a tank isn't able to efficiently work with it's defenses, like shield and armor reppers, while also doing damage, and also moving. That would severely hamper it's survivability and capability when only a single person was using it. In that case, one could justify buffing HAVs pretty decently, since they wouldn't be that powerful with only a single seat in use. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3104	Posted - 2014.09.24 09:04:00 - [179] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Similar to solo tankers, ADS pilots playstyle is that of both moving and firing at once. This is a somewhat OP role design (I complain about this a lot), but I'm just saying, ask Derrith how he'd respond if CCP took his gun away instead. This is where I disagree with you. Motion is life and firing on the move is the gold standard of vehicular weapon systems even in modern times. Movement = Life. Standing still = Death. Vehicles should fire on the move. They should. Because they should have someone doing the moving and someone doing the firing. Solo vehicles of any sort should die horribly, IMHO. Which is why a single player shouldn't be able to do both at once. You just advocated CCP killing EVE. One person, one vehicle. The whole point is they're culling some capsule tech for vehicles.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 35	Posted - 2014.09.24 09:13:00 - [180] - Quote This is why we can have nice things 8D New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.

Skippy Longstocking Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 41	Posted - 2014.09.24 10:20:00 - [181] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Similar to solo tankers, ADS pilots playstyle is that of both moving and firing at once. This is a somewhat OP role design (I complain about this a lot), but I'm just saying, ask Derrith how he'd respond if CCP took his gun away instead. This is where I disagree with you. Motion is life and firing on the move is the gold standard of vehicular weapon systems even in modern times. Movement = Life. Standing still = Death. Vehicles should fire on the move. They should. Because they should have someone doing the moving and someone doing the firing. Solo vehicles of any sort should die horribly, IMHO. Which is why a single player shouldn't be able to do both at once. You just advocated CCP killing EVE. One person, one vehicle. The whole point is they're culling some capsule tech for vehicles. What are you talking about? This isn't EVE, it's Dust. We're talking about balancing a FPS, not a point-and-click space sim. Different types of games require different mechanics. Just because they are set in the same universe doesn't change the fact that they're completely different genres. What works in one does not necessarily work in the other.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 672	Posted - 2014.09.24 11:00:00 - [182] - Quote FaustNeo wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: The Incubus will no longer be able to kill half decently built tanks and the Python will still **** infantry \o/ Lmfao . Even an incubus with XT-1 can kill infantry so easily in PC and public matches I laugh when I see an Incubus XT-1 ADS in a PC. You won't be killing people in my city. This is the reason I think the ROF nerf to pythons is a bit much.
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 434	Posted - 2014.09.24 11:09:00 - [183] - Quote Dust User wrote: FaustNeo wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: The Incubus will no longer be able to kill half decently built tanks and the Python will still **** infantry \o/ Lmfao . Even an incubus with XT-1 can kill infantry so easily in PC and public matches I laugh when I see an Incubus XT-1 ADS in a PC. You won't be killing people in my city. This is the reason I think the ROF nerf to pythons is a bit much. 2 swarm volleys with a wirokomi. It is hilarious how extreamly squishy the incubus is to all those AA AV. Ive only seen incubuses being used successfully in a PC before. Die Valkyre used them really effectively: They would have 2 of them all armorstacked soloing around the city killing 1 and 1, getting rid of uplinks and as soon as a single enemy ADS would appear they would both do what ever they could to ram it. I give up R.I.P ADS getting more proficiency in the shotgun so I can kill every single f*ck I see using swarmlauncher
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 581	Posted - 2014.09.24 12:18:00 - [184] - Quote I've waited a while before replying to this thread, as today we will find out the true meaning of the changes. I haven't played since Delta has been deployed, and this is my thoughts from a thread I replied to yesterday regarding respecs for pilots. Denchlad 7 wrote: (Im a pilot.) No respec. 10% increase in ROF per level was obscene, compared to other bonuses in the game. Simple as. Its been used and abused. I have both, a lot of SP "lost" some would say - no. A lot of SP spent on something that can equate to Weapon Proficiency as an example. Imagine if the Rail Rifle had a 10% ROF Bonus per level in a certain skillbook. Or the Python got a 10% Damage Bonus per level for Small Missile Turrets. Both are obscene and would be abused like us pilots have the Turret ROF. If you skilled into it for the 10% ROF... tough. You should've seen how ridiculous that is. Hell, I did but still spent I dont know how much SP on those bonuses. Anyway, with the AB nerf it balances us against Infantry respawn times, which on average is about 30-60 seconds - the same time range we'll have to wait for AB's to cool down. Swarms are now useful rather than just letting us fly away and 10 seconds later have a fully recharged AB again. I mean, I've used an MLT Afterburner for way way too long. And so what if we die more - hull cost reduction to 200k? Yes please. Won't take 2 excellent matches to buy another fully fitted ADS. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2373170#post2373170 Now, I understand fellow pilots why you're getting all angry about Swarm buffs. Lets look at it logically. When was the last time you will killed by a solo swarmer outside of PC? Very likely answer to that is rarely, if ever. I myself have died maybe 3-4 times to Wiyrkomi swarms in the last 6 months and thats it. To Forge that number is drastically larger. I've died to CBR7 swarms once, ever. Personally, whenever I get hit by swarms, I react quickly - I don't want this one guy to kill my half a million isk dropship - I hit my Afterburner and fly away, to return when its recharged and my health is back 15 seconds later, on average. Team AV is a different story. If you go and try to kill 3 Wiyrkomi swarmers... you deserve to die for being that stupid. 3 > 1, and by that law you deserve to die, and the AV'ers deserve to kill you. 2 > 1 is still the same,though not impossible, should be very hard. Realistically, even playing as an Assault, fighting 2 > 1 against people using Prototype Assaults against your Prototype Assault... you're going to lose 9 times out of 10. So why should it be any different for a Prototype AV'er and a Prototype/Complex ADS Pilot? My main cause of concern for the 1 = 1 system was that a Prototype AV'er is going to be spending ~200,000 isk, per suit, whereas my ADS costs me ~500,000 isk. This is the problem most Pilots (and Tankers back in the day) have with AV being powerful enough to kill them - "I can't afford to be blasted out of the sky with no time to react" - so some pilots have wanted the power of the ADS to remain unchanged to allow them to feel that they are 'balanced' by cost. Absolutely utter bullcrap. If I told you I deserved a a Rail Rifle dealing 125 DmgPS because my Dropsuit costs 150,000 isk, but can run at 25 m/s, and can only be fitted with a Rail Rifle (for the sake of comparison), do you honestly think that would be fair? Because that's not at all. If, however, we reduced the cost of that dropsuit to say, 10,000 isk, it would make slightly more sense, as there would be a High Risk/High Reward system, whereas with the prior is Low Risk/High Reward, as with that speed you could literally just run away. This Hotfix in theory balances the 1=1 fight, while maintaining the Numerical Dominance of 2 >1, 3 > 1 etc. And with the cost reduction of ADS', in theory my ADS' should cost (fully fitted) ~375,000 isk, which is more balanced against ~200,000 isk. Why? Have you not seen the Damage an XT-1 Missile Launcher can do to any Infantry? That kind of power deserves to cost more. Once again, running a Highly Expensive Dropship (in comparison to Dropsuits) yields a High Reward (Slaying Infantry), but with a High Risk (Vulnerable to High Powered AV). The same way a Fully Prototyped AV'er is running a Highly Expensive Dropsuit (in comparison to most dropsuits), that yields a High Reward (Killing Powerful Vehicles), but with a High Risk (only Sidearm/Grenade to retaliate to Infantry attacks). ROF I touched on in my quote, not going through that again. But hey, guess we'll see today. The amount of moaning about this resembles how 95% of the community (including me) reacted to the Fanfest announcement - the other 5% actually stayed level-headed and looked at it logically, like some people are trying to do now. The only person in Dust stupid enough to Proto every single god-damn weapon. 19/19.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1744	Posted - 2014.09.24 12:25:00 - [185] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: You need to clarify this for me, I don't understand it. Literally that no amount of money you bring on the field should make you just naturally superior to all other players the way many vehicles currently do. Lets be quite clear, you are very bias here Xel. Proto stompers have been and continue to be superior to most on the battlefield purely because they can run proto dropsuits with full proto fits with total disregard for any amount of isk lost. Regularly I see admitedly good players lose 3,4,5+ proto suits game after game. I doubt they are sustainable but because they have crazy tons of isk they have no worry. How is that any different? "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3115	Posted - 2014.09.24 13:25:00 - [186] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: You need to clarify this for me, I don't understand it. Literally that no amount of money you bring on the field should make you just naturally superior to all other players the way many vehicles currently do. Lets be quite clear, you are very bias here Xel. Proto stompers have been and continue to be superior to most on the battlefield purely because they can run proto dropsuits with full proto fits with total disregard for any amount of isk lost. Regularly I see admitedly good players lose 3,4,5+ proto suits game after game. I doubt they are sustainable but because they have crazy tons of isk they have no worry. How is that any different? Protostompers can be smeared solo with militia weapons. Any time a vehicle user dies to a militia swarm they scream like little girls.
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 71	Posted - 2014.09.24 13:26:00 - [187] - Quote I hust want matari AV right now "The human being was not chosen to be a god..the god himself should become a human being."
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 45	Posted - 2014.09.24 13:43:00 - [188] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. What reason do you need to shoot 50% faster than someone else? What reason do you need vehicles nerfed and AV buffed in the same hotfix? Balance. This is akin to saying that when weighing 40 grams of gold on an old fashioned scale and having 35g on the other plate, so in order to balance it out you take an unknown bit of the gold off the scale and adding a gram to the other plate. Doing so is flawed in that you take quite some time trying to balance the two sides, and even when you do it is not likely to come out at 40 grams. The seller gets screwed in this case, as it is almost certain the weight will come out as less than 40 grams. People simply get impatient, and that causes Dev teams to rush. It is the impatience of the people that tends to send us away from a true balance and keeps the power pendulum swinging. The little Min with the little voice.
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5327	Posted - 2014.09.24 13:45:00 - [189] - Quote To clarify, if the intention is to try and push the Assault Dropship in the direction of requiring all three guns to really be a threat, I'm not opposed to that. However, the Fitting cost of doing this is such that only pilots of higher skillpoint investment can even pull that off. The price reduction is a nice touch, but the primary reason you see as many solo-fit vehicles as you do in this game is because of how hard it is to fit yourself to survive against other vehicles and AV and still fit Small Turrets. Especially considering that the Afterburner is one of the primary lifelines of a Dropship pilot, the new increase to cooldowns means that you need to fit a Complex one to have any hope of survival once AV starts hitting you, and that's near impossible to do while fitting 3 turrets. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3588	Posted - 2014.09.24 13:56:00 - [190] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You just advocated CCP killing EVE. One person, one vehicle. The whole point is they're culling some capsule tech for vehicles. Different games need to work differently. And capsule tech makes like no sense in this context. CommanderBolt wrote: [Proto stompers] How is that any different? Breakin Stuff wrote: Protostompers can be smeared solo with militia weapons. Breakin nailed it there. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5327	Posted - 2014.09.24 14:04:00 - [191] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: You just advocated CCP killing EVE. One person, one vehicle. The whole point is they're culling some capsule tech for vehicles. Different games need to work differently. And capsule tech makes like no sense in this context. Not to mention that capsule tech only reduces ship crews, it doesn't eliminate the need for them. The Capsuleer basically acts as both the Captain and the computer, but they still need a crew to attend to many of the functions of the ship. Before anyone tries to argue with either of us: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines As you can see, not even a Frigate flies with no crew. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1806	Posted - 2014.09.24 16:24:00 - [192] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: To that end, doesn't skill stacking fall in line with that principle? Heh. Kinda. o_O Juno Tristan wrote: Then how about we add some actual bonuses for having multiple people in vehicles because currently 3 people in a tank is little more than a points pinata I'm thinking add each passenger's shields and armour rep rate to the vehicle Particularly, my perfect view of HAVs would be the driver getting the small forward turret (which has a limited firing arc, it would be easy to flank a tank with only a driver), have the second seat be the main turret, and the third seat control the top small turret with better visibility as well as the logistics modules. A single person could use any of the features of the tanks by switching seats (like with a LAV now), but at the obvious limitation of not being able to do all at once. Then, a tank isn't able to efficiently work with it's defenses, like shield and armor reppers, while also doing damage, and also moving. That would severely hamper it's survivability and capability when only a single person was using it. In that case, one could justify buffing HAVs pretty decently, since they wouldn't be that powerful with only a single seat in use. Rather, the driver controls the main turret which has horrid pivoting, thus relying on smaller turrets to track the fast moving infantry. Slowing down tank acceleration will help this, but it should be analogous to battleships struggling to hit fast moving frigates. The small turrets provide the protection, such that a solo driver with his large turret is suicide, needing gunners to protect him. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1236	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:44:00 - [193] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: I declare ADS useless being nerfed by buff Looking back to ADS history, many have forgotten why the full dmg build was chosen. It was not because it was op, it was simply because the role of derpship pilot was not viable and the only way to not have a pointless role in gm was to turn it into a killing machine. That's all you would've of done. Anything else was considered trolling. While the ADS has not been affected directly, it was been getting nerfed after every hot-fix because of the buffs in other areas. ADS is already shut down because of installation tankiness buff, to further the nerf, blaster installations received the ability to auto attack ADS without aggro. 2-3 unmanned installations force the ADS to remain out of battle. Nerfing the RoF... I dont really care much about it in itself. But look at the other changes. Afterburners also because a major ingredient in the Full offensive derpship role. they are getting nerfed as well with that 40 sec CD increase. What allowed a derpship to perform hit and runs will now have to fire 2-3 missiles, only to remain out of battle for 40 sec. Again, but buffing AV weapons, which i dont mind either, indirectly nerfs the ADS. Swarm missiles will travel faster and do more dmg, which really isnt required anymore since most afterburners will be on CD so ADS wont have speed boost. As to buffs, only the standard derpships are receiving ehp/pg/cpu increases. ADS is only getting a price reduction As you can see, it seems that many of the changes outside of ADS has been with the goal of shutting down ADS indirectly. Each buff alone would merit the buff and still allow for a fair fight with ads. but the combined changes in all the past hotfixes have been to combat the ADS to the point of meeting it utterly useless. I agree that the ADS shouldnt be a full dmg vehicle. but taking away that role does not introduce new ones. by shutting down the ADS it will not turn it into the transport vehicle we all dreamed it would be, it will not turn it into the sup vehicle we all wanted (logi DS), and it will not become that rescue vehicle expected to go into hotzones for extractions. By taking away its only role, we are returning to its former and most notable role of being a flying sightseeing vehicle where its only use will be to appreciate the background art of each map and to sacrifice in order to reach a roof. it's not only the dropship the large turret also auto tracks my LAV the entire match and well out passed 100m. i thought that dev said specifically this bull sht wouldn't happen with his little large turret buff that like only 2 people had a hardon for- himself and another guy. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Shamarskii Simon 1.U.P 0	Posted - 2014.09.27 16:23:00 - [194] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: @Derrith I'm going to show these idiots that it's not the ADS's that are OPGÇª It's the pilots. Oh you sored into my heart with that line. I tell you, it is in the pilot. I've done many PC's, I've killed every dropship pilot I've ever come against except one; Derrith. Simply he is used to the air because he has become proficient in his dropship. Simple as that. Did i cry op when he killed me? Nope. I know how ads v ads goes. It's not a pretty thing. I get rammed, i don't cry. That's my fault, i wasn't paying attention. I get shot down flirting with AV. My fault for being greedy. I get downed air to air. I don't cry, i was simply out maneuvered. It's not the machine you fear, it's the pilot you fear. Lesson here: It's not the gun that kills, it's the person pulling the trigger. Tell me, how many of you shoot swarms at a dropship flying FULL THROTTLE over you. I do that on purpose, just to see how bad swarmers have gotten. There are legit swarmers who got proficient in handling their swarms; Waiting for you to get in an ugly place and finishing a job like that. What's happening is people have no patience anymore. They want a simple fire n forget and see damage points on their screens. Swarms will hit, they are impossible to dodge. No flipping and looking fancy will save you. Hugging the buildings will not save you anymore. Minimum 2 salvos will score at least 6 hits now. No matter how fast my negative velocity (using the launcher as the point ) they will hit. It's losing it's skill and I'm feeling sorry for the true swarmers out there. As for a forge gun; if i see a wyr breach in the kill feed it's usually the sign to recall your inky... Knowing ive been OHK'd by them when im down to armor. I rep tank just for swarmers but can't armor tank for a forge gun. Is 300 rep too much on an inky? Hell no. To fit it you can be 2 shotted by almost everything. But as more people leave the fg and go to swarms, i might as well. Lesson here: patience is a virtue, you shouldn't have a sure fire way to get damage points and a kill. Why i respect true forge gunners. 1.7 i had the most expensive AV suit, Yknow what it was? A gunner and i, two particle accelerators or a basic with particle cann. If it was a python I used my gunner fully and i simply supported. That was my suit and I've been using it till delta, where the rof nerf + the skill nerf + the skill stacking penalty for the "heating" weaponry (a gunner will only fire 5 shots to overheat if stacked compared to 7 unstacked) has rendered me a free 75 wp floating around, and tanks roaming free. Lesson here: a dropship doesn't usher death on infantry. Sometimes give pilots a break... We aren't always on yur booty. Sometimes we are just flying around. As for the people who just switch to av as soon as you see a dropship and get determined to kill me; not my fault you lost the game. You simply used your resources on someone doing nothing. Lesson here: what doesn't jeopardize the mission, doesn't need to be killed, you'll just waste time and make it hard for your team. I've played in pc and two forgers can keep a dropship from being a benefit and turning it into a liability. Clearly i was hunting their vehicles so now they have reason to protect them. As for the rof nerf, and people saying it should be 1 v 1 for tell me how many of your swarms render on my screen, tell me how large your hit box is compared to mine, and tell me if i can shoot through buildings or see you far ahead when you see me? Tell me where i can take cover without bumping into something and instantly catching fire? I am a vehicle, you are a person. It isn't going to be too easy for 1 v1. 2 v 1 is certainly a fair fight. Yes it did need a nerf since stacking turns people into pocket orbitals but what happens now (overheat earlier) plus a slight reduction to the skill (8-6% per level) and reworking damage profiles would have been the better plan. Lesson here: everything should come in steps. I'm pretty sure you don't get calculus in your grade 1/ first year / primary classes. If the profiles don't work, lower the rof. If the rof didn't work, go to early heating. We don't take down skyscrapers from the bottom up, you'll have collateral damage. Why hasn't anyone complained about tanks...? I never saw duna in an ads :/ and i drove a tank for the first time and just butchered people. Still don't like it. I prefer the air. I support the nerfs but if i could achieve the same rof with max skills as no skills, i guess i just put dropsuit command to level 5. Aka, an useless skill. I'm not hating on av'ers (as i also am an av'er). I'm just saying we all need to discuss and see the numbers as a community. Not some shady political ** mr cpms. I remember when swarms had 50% effectiveness on ships. That was total bull . Surefire hits? Total bull **. Have the turning circle far larger so we can out maneuver them or give us some flares as a high module. Well, my phone is dying now... I'll be back later.
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5330	Posted - 2014.10.14 11:52:00 - [195] - Quote Well, it's exactly how I thought it would be. Flying with some of the best pilots in the 1st Airborne channel, I took my Python into a few matches 2 days ago. After the third attempt at trying to kill 2 guys with Swarm Launchers before they put so many missiles in the air that there was no way to get away from them, I just called in a Gunnlogi. The acceleration increase on the missiles now means that outrunning Swarms is nearly impossible. While that sounds like an excellent change, the issue is that all of the Swarm Launcher buffs made up until now have combined to make escape nearly impossible even if I hit the AFterburner and run away the moment I see the first volley get launched, not even waiting for it to hit me. As well, Yom was telling me about having Swarms chase him out to 480 meters from their launch point. At the very least, if this is the new reality for pilots, the maximum flight range on Swarms needs to be drastically reduced. You can't take away both tanking AND evasion, because at that point no reduction in cost will make an ADS worth flying. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 498	Posted - 2014.10.14 12:01:00 - [196] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Well, it's exactly how I thought it would be. Flying with some of the best pilots in the 1st Airborne channel, I took my Python into a few matches 2 days ago. After the third attempt at trying to kill 2 guys with Swarm Launchers before they put so many missiles in the air that there was no way to get away from them, I just called in a Gunnlogi. The acceleration increase on the missiles now means that outrunning Swarms is nearly impossible. While that sounds like an excellent change, the issue is that all of the Swarm Launcher buffs made up until now have combined to make escape nearly impossible even if I hit the AFterburner and run away the moment I see the first volley get launched, not even waiting for it to hit me. As well, Yom was telling me about having Swarms chase him out to 480 meters from their launch point. At the very least, if this is the new reality for pilots, the maximum flight range on Swarms needs to be drastically reduced. You can't take away both tanking AND evasion, because at that point no reduction in cost will make an ADS worth flying. STD and ADV swarms were buffed, Proto actually lost damage and the acceleration increase was needed because you could lolAB away every time. Reducing the flight range would make drop ships impossible to kill. Again. Because you can just sit out of range watching the missiles blow up in front of you.
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5330	Posted - 2014.10.14 12:04:00 - [197] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Well, it's exactly how I thought it would be. Flying with some of the best pilots in the 1st Airborne channel, I took my Python into a few matches 2 days ago. After the third attempt at trying to kill 2 guys with Swarm Launchers before they put so many missiles in the air that there was no way to get away from them, I just called in a Gunnlogi. The acceleration increase on the missiles now means that outrunning Swarms is nearly impossible. While that sounds like an excellent change, the issue is that all of the Swarm Launcher buffs made up until now have combined to make escape nearly impossible even if I hit the AFterburner and run away the moment I see the first volley get launched, not even waiting for it to hit me. As well, Yom was telling me about having Swarms chase him out to 480 meters from their launch point. At the very least, if this is the new reality for pilots, the maximum flight range on Swarms needs to be drastically reduced. You can't take away both tanking AND evasion, because at that point no reduction in cost will make an ADS worth flying. STD and ADV swarms were buffed, Proto actually lost damage and the acceleration increase was needed because you could lolAB away every time. Reducing the flight range would make drop ships impossible to kill. Again. Because you can just sit out of range watching the missiles blow up in front of you. Yeah, out of range at almost 500 meters. I mean, you did notice that part, right? Swarm missiles effectively have longer range than Sniper Rifles now. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 498	Posted - 2014.10.14 12:06:00 - [198] - Quote They blow up at 400 metres.
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5330	Posted - 2014.10.14 12:10:00 - [199] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: They blow up at 400 metres. They're supposed to, but several people can attest to the fact that they don't. Also, I'm not sure why this is, but even with the Afterburner on, the acceleration on my Python feels very sluggish. I don't recall seeing any changes mentioned in the spreadsheet for Hotfix Delta, but it literally feels like I can't get the damn thing moving anymore. I can only imagine what it must be like for Incubus pilots. Also, on that subject: 6 shots from a small Railgun before overheating? I mean, hell, part of what I liked flying the ADS for was helping infantry kill tanks. I guess that's unacceptable? Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 498	Posted - 2014.10.14 12:14:00 - [200] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: They blow up at 400 metres. They're supposed to, but several people can attest to the fact that they don't. Also, I'm not sure why this is, but even with the Afterburner on, the acceleration on my Python feels very sluggish. I don't recall seeing any changes mentioned in the spreadsheet for Hotfix Delta, but it literally feels like I can't get the damn thing moving anymore. I can only imagine what it must be like for Incubus pilots. Also, on that subject: 6 shots from a small Railgun before overheating? I mean, hell, part of what I liked flying the ADS for was helping infantry kill tanks. I guess that's unacceptable? The small rail change was dumb. They should have lowered damage instead of what they actually did. I haven't flown an ADS in quite a while so I dont know about the manoeuvrability.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2175	Posted - 2014.10.14 13:28:00 - [201] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Infantry wanted it, and then it happened. Pilots have absolutely zero control over what happens to vehicles. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 498	Posted - 2014.10.14 13:34:00 - [202] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Infantry wanted it, and then it happened. Pilots have absolutely zero control over what happens to vehicles. Why would you need 50% increase on fire rate?
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 45	Posted - 2014.10.14 13:40:00 - [203] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Infantry wanted it, and then it happened. Pilots have absolutely zero control over what happens to vehicles. Why would you need 50% increase on fire rate? I agree that 50% is quite a lot, but I also agree with my fellow pilots that 15% is an absurdly low bonus (especially considering the SP cost). The little Min with the little voice.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 498	Posted - 2014.10.14 13:53:00 - [204] - Quote Finn Colman wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Infantry wanted it, and then it happened. Pilots have absolutely zero control over what happens to vehicles. Why would you need 50% increase on fire rate? I agree that 50% is quite a lot, but I also agree with my fellow pilots that 15% is an absurdly low bonus (especially considering the SP cost). It should have been halved and then maybe reduced after that if it was still a problem.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 226	Posted - 2014.10.14 19:19:00 - [205] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Infantry wanted it, and then it happened. Pilots have absolutely zero control over what happens to vehicles. Why would you need 50% increase on fire rate? Why not? Why do monkeys tapdance? Why?
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 499	Posted - 2014.10.14 20:10:00 - [206] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Infantry wanted it, and then it happened. Pilots have absolutely zero control over what happens to vehicles. Why would you need 50% increase on fire rate? Why not? Why do monkeys tapdance? Why? Monkeys tap dancing sounds funny
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3638	Posted - 2014.10.15 10:16:00 - [207] - Quote I'm in agreement that the bonus should probably be 5% per level honestly. Significant, deadly but not overwhelming (unless you like to stand still) While I loathe the infantry farming habits of many vehicle drivers, I believe that the base advantage (not absolute supremacy) should fall into the hands of vehicle users by a certain margin. If you want supremacy then become brilliant. If you want to hover then you merely are allowed an advantage. And then I will kill you.
La Lore Sleipnier THE PR0T0TYPE 127	Posted - 2014.10.15 11:02:00 - [208] - Quote I'm agree with you, 5% per level, is not the 10 that we've got before but is not the bullshit we have now. 3%? What you thinking to do that CCP? Soy una hoja al viento a merced de los elementos... https://dust514.com/recruit/MfQjol/
Atiim 12945	Posted - 2014.10.15 11:54:00 - [209] - Quote I'd rather just increase the RoF of all turrets by 15%, and then give ADSs a different bonus. Spkr4theDead wrote: Infantry wanted it, and then it happened. Pilots have absolutely zero control over what happens to vehicles. Everyone is capable of posting feedback, therefore everyone has equal control (which is none) and influence over what happens to vehicles (or AV). The reason why the Pilot's demands aren't being met is because there's about 2-3 of them who's ever asked for something that isn't so ridiculously broken & biased that it borders on comedic parody. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3640	Posted - 2014.10.15 12:43:00 - [210] - Quote Atiim wrote: I'd rather just increase the RoF of all turrets by 15%, and then give ADSs a different bonus. Spkr4theDead wrote: Infantry wanted it, and then it happened. Pilots have absolutely zero control over what happens to vehicles. Everyone is capable of posting feedback, therefore everyone has equal control (which is none) and influence over what happens to vehicles (or AV). The reason why the Pilot's demands aren't being met is because there's about 2-3 of them who's ever asked for something that isn't so ridiculously broken & biased that it borders on comedic parody. There's more than that. They're just drowned out by the sea of unconscionable idiocy. On both sides. There are morons who want vehicles to be IWIN butans versus infantry. There are AV idiots who want vehicles to be nothing more than KD/WP pinatas. Both varieties may feel free to die in a fire.

Atiim 12947	Posted - 2014.10.15 14:49:00 - [211] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Atiim wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: So, Skill stacks will be the way to go.. I see how it is. Good thing I have some people that just got an extra 3 Million SP. Skill stacking with gunners will being you to +30% RoF at most, which is the current Operation III Feel free to waste your friend's SP He's at 67 Million and already has ADS up a bit, so, I think he'll be fine. I've noticed you like to single me out all of a sudden. I left you alone after your assholery months ago that screwed over Minmatar Assaults, so, go troll someone else. I screwed over Minmatar Assaults? How? The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14717	Posted - 2014.10.15 16:55:00 - [212] - Quote It's nice to see CPM as useless and clueless as ever. So is that RoF nerf happening or not? If so then this game has gone even more to ** than I thought Ten Year Plan (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+**
Atiim 12950	Posted - 2014.10.15 16:56:00 - [213] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: It's nice to see CPM as useless and clueless as ever. So is that RoF nerf happening or not? It already happened about a month and a half ago. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14717	Posted - 2014.10.15 16:58:00 - [214] - Quote Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: It's nice to see CPM as useless and clueless as ever. So is that RoF nerf happening or not? It already happened about a month and a half ago. Lmfao, so glad I quit :) Scrubs run this game now Ten Year Plan (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1232	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:16:00 - [215] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: It's nice to see CPM as useless and clueless as ever. So is that RoF nerf happening or not? If so then this game has gone even more to **** than I thought Irony, you've got to love it. Because, that's why.
jace silencerww Inner.Hell 59	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:50:00 - [216] - Quote Finn Colman wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bqr2OKuQXCKrvx721n07xLb5VYmwvXEoftyNqRg3ew8/edit#gid=1986456775 Now I'm 100% on board with fixing pilot-stacking, but this is just ridiculous. EDIT: As far as I know this would be on top of fixing pilot stacking. Infantry wanted it, and then it happened. Pilots have absolutely zero control over what happens to vehicles. Why would you need 50% increase on fire rate? I agree that 50% is quite a lot, but I also agree with my fellow pilots that 15% is an absurdly low bonus (especially considering the SP cost). lol really? try killing a 3 rep tank in a python. remember your in an ASSAULT dropship you should be able to kill it but now nope.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14718	Posted - 2014.10.16 00:25:00 - [217] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: It's nice to see CPM as useless and clueless as ever. So is that RoF nerf happening or not? If so then this game has gone even more to ** than I thought Irony, you've got to love it. I'm always useless and clueless I'm also not in direct contact with CCP, so it's fairly harmless. o7 Ten Year Plan (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+**


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