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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9216
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Posted - 2014.02.16 05:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly.
Basic dropship 45k
Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted)
I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price.
An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty.
Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4593
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut.
Agreed, especially with how easy they can be taken down, and with what is pretty much confirmation of a Swarm buff on the horizon.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
889
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut.
Well they never die though. They can be tanked pretty well and can hide behind the altitude ceiling, so in effect they have a built-in redline capability - to me that should cost money.
Edit: and they are much harder for infantry to hide from than from tanks.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
4280
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree the cost differential on a lot of items in Dust is criminal. The Commando is another example.
A LOT of items need to be revisited.
My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity
And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
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Adelia Lafayette
Science For Death
670
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
I need to just stop skilling into the assault dropship. You would think I would of learned by now.
Assault dropship gets blown up....
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"...
..."I'm back"
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
4280
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Well they never die though. They can be tanked pretty well and can hide behind the altitude ceiling, so in effect they have a built-in redline capability - to me that should cost money. Edit: and they are much harder for infantry to hide from than from tanks. This is true. Currently the Rail tanks are the only thing keeping them in line.
My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity
And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4593
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Well they never die though. They can be tanked pretty well and can hide behind the altitude ceiling, so in effect they have a built-in redline capability - to me that should cost money. Edit: and they are much harder for infantry to hide from than from tanks.
I've seen a double-hardened Incubus flown by an expert pilot die to one shot from a Railgun tank stacking Damage Mods.
Also, Railgun tanks can just prop themsleves up on hills, rocks, or any other object and point their turrets straight up in the air, hitting a Dropship even at the flight ceiling of the highest maps.
Swarms and Forges have enough kinetic kick on their shots that even if they don't actually kill you with damage, they can throw you into the ground or nearby obstacles and kill you that way.
They can even fire Swarms at you to bring you close to them, and then call in an LAV and watch the invisible RDV smack you out of the air without you even knowing it's there or being able to avoid it.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
182
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Adelia Lafayette wrote:I need to just stop skilling into the assault dropship. You would think I would of learned by now.
I don't have that much issue with it and mine costs around 550k and hell my tank costs around 680k so i honestly think its just fine |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9216
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Well they never die though. They can be tanked pretty well and can hide behind the altitude ceiling, so in effect they have a built-in redline capability - to me that should cost money. Edit: and they are much harder for infantry to hide from than from tanks.
They aren't harder to kill than tanks, and are EXTREMELY vulnerable to railgun tanks; if they didn't die, ADS pilots wouldn't be so poor (I know 2 really good pilots who struggle financially as a result).
Being harder to hide from is easily cancelled out by the power difference of small turrets compared to large turrets.
Over 100 meter elevation they're still vulnerable to forge guns, and can't even see infantry (nor hit them).
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
182
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Well they never die though. They can be tanked pretty well and can hide behind the altitude ceiling, so in effect they have a built-in redline capability - to me that should cost money. Edit: and they are much harder for infantry to hide from than from tanks. I've seen a double-hardened Incubus flown by an expert pilot die to one shot from a Railgun tank stacking Damage Mods. Also, Railgun tanks can just prop themsleves up on hills, rocks, or any other object and point their turrets straight up in the air, hitting a Dropship even at the flight ceiling of the highest maps. Swarms and Forges have enough kinetic kick on their shots that even if they don't actually kill you with damage, they can throw you into the ground or nearby obstacles and kill you that way. They can even fire Swarms at you to bring you close to them, and then call in an LAV and watch the invisible RDV smack you out of the air without you even knowing it's there or being able to avoid it.
Well thats something entirely different and besides I been hearing alot that they are gonna nerf the dmg mods which will fix most the issues with railguns killing dropships so fast anyway |
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
658
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kagehoshi is never wrong. +1 |
Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
182
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Kagehoshi is never wrong. +1
Everyone is wrong at some point in time not that im disagreeing with him |
Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
949
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
considering that without concentrated AV players or a railtank, assault derpships can completely dominate a map I'd say the cost is justified.
the railgun and it's interaction with damage mods is what's overpowered.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2276
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
They need to stay expensive in order to prevent spam.
Case and point, tanks.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4595
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:They need to stay expensive in order to prevent spam.
Case and point, tanks.
You can spam tanks because they're easy.
Flying an ADS effectively takes quite a bit more skill than people seem to think. It took me at least a week before I could reliably get kills, and I'm still learning even now that I'm pretty dangerous in one. I still can't fight other ADS worth ****.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
|
straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
219
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
What can kill an assault dropship besides a broken rail tank? Fairly sure rail tanks are going to be looked at soon, and with your idea of cheap assault dropships, doesn't take a genius to work out what will happen. |
Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
182
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:They need to stay expensive in order to prevent spam.
Case and point, tanks. You can spam tanks because they're easy. Flying an ADS effectively takes quite a bit more skill than people seem to think. It took me at least a week before I could reliably get kills, and I'm still learning even now that I'm pretty dangerous in one. I still can't fight other ADS worth ****.
That was simply a mistake on CCPs part and they always said they are nerfing dmg mods and the pg and cpu on mlt tanks which will limit thier fittings so they can spam them then but they would be alot weaker |
Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
182
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 06:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
straya fox wrote:What can kill an assault dropship besides a broken rail tank? Fairly sure rail tanks are going to be looked at soon, and with your idea of cheap assault dropships, doesn't take a genius to work out what will happen.
it's not the railguns they should be looking at it's the dmg mods which they are nerfing anyway |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2278
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:They need to stay expensive in order to prevent spam.
Case and point, tanks. You can spam tanks because they're easy. Flying an ADS effectively takes quite a bit more skill than people seem to think. It took me at least a week before I could reliably get kills, and I'm still learning even now that I'm pretty dangerous in one. I still can't fight other ADS worth ****.
We have more then enough people who can run assault drop ships. Its the cost that kept them from being spammed.
They have 1 effective counter as of right now, and that is rail tanks. Breach forge guns with dmg mods work, but only for pythons.
I have yet to see a Incubus be taken out of the sky by anything other then a rail tanks, and that is only extremely open maps with redlined that can overlook the entire map.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
219
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:straya fox wrote:What can kill an assault dropship besides a broken rail tank? Fairly sure rail tanks are going to be looked at soon, and with your idea of cheap assault dropships, doesn't take a genius to work out what will happen. it's not the railguns they should be looking at it's the dmg mods which they are nerfing anyway
Yeah the whole set up with tanks in general, but i still don't know how else to reliable suppress an assault dropship without one. |
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
660
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Kagehoshi is never wrong. +1 Everyone is wrong at some point in time not that im disagreeing with him
You dare to insult the god-king, lord of threads?
Seriously, though, I spend more time reading these forums than I really should, and I haven't found a single one of Kagehoshi's posts that I disagree with. That's good enough for me. I'd say Kagehoshi for CPM if CPM wasn't such a thankless unpaid job.
Cody: The phrase you're looking for is case in point, not case and point. However, there's no MLT ADS- the hull will probably still cost upwards of 100k, and that's plenty to limit spam while not forcing 99% of ADS pilots into poverty. I've been dabbling in learning to ADS for the novelty, and you really can't learn to fly a Python in any ship other than a Python. It gets incredibly expensive to learn when every little mistake costs nearly two deathless matches worth of ISK. |
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4597
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
|
straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
219
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into.
It costs 2 or 3 proto suits, sounds reasonable to me. They are powerful. |
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4599
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into. It costs 2 or 3 proto suits, sounds reasonable to me. They are powerful.
And tanks cost less? Even after the damage mods and railguns are addressed?
I think you guys need to realize that an ADS isn't the same no-barrier-to-entry vehicle that an HAV is.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
|
straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
219
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into. It costs 2 or 3 proto suits, sounds reasonable to me. They are powerful. And tanks cost less? Even after the damage mods and railguns are addressed? I think you guys need to realize that an ADS isn't the same no-barrier-to-entry vehicle that an HAV is.
Yeah i understand that, but no one thinks tanks are in a good way at the moment ( except Spkr ). I am suggesting lets not break assault dropships as well. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2278
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 06:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into. It costs 2 or 3 proto suits, sounds reasonable to me. They are powerful. And tanks cost less? Even after the damage mods and railguns are addressed? I think you guys need to realize that an ADS isn't the same no-barrier-to-entry vehicle that an HAV is.
They are un-kill-able by non-heavies infantry.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
664
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into. It costs 2 or 3 proto suits, sounds reasonable to me. They are powerful. And tanks cost less? Even after the damage mods and railguns are addressed? I think you guys need to realize that an ADS isn't the same no-barrier-to-entry vehicle that an HAV is.
Agreed Mobius- as someone who's been messing around with being a rookie Python pilot, those bastards are tricky. I still find it tough to hover in place or circle a target consistently, much less actually aim my turret without going skidding across the sky, or dodge FG shots.
Honestly, it would be hilarious and great if people started trying to spam assault dropships the way tanks get spammed now. |
RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
116
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
I hate to derail the discussion, but I think the price of an ADS is justified as long as something is done about rail turrets and rail tanks.
The fix would be super easy. Just make the damage drop off 10% for every 50 meters beyond 200. So at 450 meters they're doing 50% damage. This would end those 600+ meter tank kills.
This would stop the RDV denial and rails would have to venture beyond the red line to be effective. They'd still be formidable against tanks and dropships as long as they aren't way up on d-bag mountain.
You'd still see red line rail tanks, but they'd be tankers that specialized into the rail turrets and damage mods in order to combat the damage dropoff.
Fixing the damage mods won't do anything considering a militia rail tank can do just fine without damage mods.
We can pickle that.
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4600
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into. It costs 2 or 3 proto suits, sounds reasonable to me. They are powerful. And tanks cost less? Even after the damage mods and railguns are addressed? I think you guys need to realize that an ADS isn't the same no-barrier-to-entry vehicle that an HAV is. They are un-kill-able by non-heavies infantry.
Yes, but that isn't going to remain the case. Like I said, CCP Remnant made a post about a month back where he said they're "unsatisfied with the current state of Light AV vs Vehicles".
As well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. I've so far lost 3 Pythons to some really good AV players luring me down to lower altitude, and then using the kinetic impact of multiple Swarm launchers to throw me into buildings or hills.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9220
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into. It costs 2 or 3 proto suits, sounds reasonable to me. They are powerful. And tanks cost less? Even after the damage mods and railguns are addressed? I think you guys need to realize that an ADS isn't the same no-barrier-to-entry vehicle that an HAV is. Yeah i understand that, but no one thinks tanks are in a good way at the moment ( except Spkr ). I am suggesting lets not break assault dropships as well.
I would never use anything higher than advanced suit to fight a vehicle, seems like asking to lose money, so balancing costs around proto seems wrong to me. A 50K advanced suit can get similar results, which is only 100k-150k for 2-3 deaths.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
219
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into. It costs 2 or 3 proto suits, sounds reasonable to me. They are powerful. And tanks cost less? Even after the damage mods and railguns are addressed? I think you guys need to realize that an ADS isn't the same no-barrier-to-entry vehicle that an HAV is. They are un-kill-able by non-heavies infantry. Yes, but that isn't going to remain the case. Like I said, CCP Remnant made a post about a month back where he said they're "unsatisfied with the current state of Light AV vs Vehicles". As well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. I've so far lost 3 Pythons to some really good AV players luring me down to lower altitude, and then using the kinetic impact of multiple Swarm launchers to throw me into buildings or hills.
So you crashed... |
Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
665
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
Yes, but that isn't going to remain the case. Like I said, CCP Remnant made a post about a month back where he said they're "unsatisfied with the current state of Light AV vs Vehicles".
As well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. I've so far lost 3 Pythons to some really good AV players luring me down to lower altitude, and then using the kinetic impact of multiple Swarm launchers to throw me into buildings or hills.
So you crashed...
Have you ever tried flying an ADS? It's not nearly as easy as some people make it look.
Edit: He may have been doing absolutely everything right, only to get surprised by swarms, which really knock a dropship as light as the Python around. Bumping into a wall will drop the vast majority of your shields and make it even harder to maintain control, at which point tapping another wall will probably destroy the dropship. If that doesn't get you, the followup swarm volleys probably will, unless you're skilled enough to maintain control and get out of there extremely quickly, which is very, very hard. |
Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
730
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Well they never die though. They can be tanked pretty well and can hide behind the altitude ceiling, so in effect they have a built-in redline capability - to me that should cost money. Edit: and they are much harder for infantry to hide from than from tanks.
As an assault dropship pilot allow me to correct a few things. They do die, quite often, and not just to rails either but to forge guns and combined swarm launcher efforts. They can be tanked somewhat but not to the degree of a tank, trust me I have max fitting skills For shields and turrets. If you want to fit a tank you have to give up your side turrets, something that I personally won't do. I think the dropships true power lies in its troop carrying capacity and gunner firepower which requires a lot of skill and experience to pull off.
Its true dropships can retreat to the flight ceiling, though keep in mind that's just like an infantry or tank player. The dropships typical operating height is 80-100m at 200m you can barley see anything. When a dropship is 200m up its not a threat to ground forces, the most threatening force would be those jumping out of the dropship. So yes we can fly high up, but we loose any sort of effectiveness by running to that altitude.
The dropship is the most versatile vehicle in dust, it can transport troops quickly above ground and the assault variant has decent fire power. However it costs far more than a tank, and forge guns are still very much a threat. Prototype rail guns can one shot a python, and they cost a couple hundred thousand less than a prototype fit dropship. Keep in mind that dropship pilots don't get paid much, even if they do their job of transport the points aren't very much. My python usually requires 2-3 games of work to earn back, and I have to be doing well to earn that 230k a game which means flying through heavily contested skies hoping I don't get OHK flying to C. Its very stressful and I have spent well over 300mil isk on dropships.
@ the OP, I agree dropships and especially assault dropships should cost less, more than the standard but not more, or much more than a proto fit tank. Every pilot could breath a bit easier and have a little bit of cash in their pockets and a few dropships to fly.
Lately I have been restocking 15 of my cheaper dropships at a time. This costs roughly 9.7mil. If I can't make that isk back With 15 dropships then I'm in the red. Unfortunately there were quite a few redline rail tanks one day and I ended up 3mil short, that's 3 or 4 dropships I can't restock. I'm lucky to break even on a good day, I don't want to talk about my bad days.... |
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4601
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 07:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
straya fox wrote:
So you crashed...
Not quite. I'm not sure if you've noticed how much of a kinetic impulse they've put back on AV weapons, but even if they don't damage you they can throw you around like a ping-pong ball.
It actually makes for a great defensive tactic if you're trying to Forge a Dropship. Two squadmates with Militia Swarms can effectively keep my aim so badly thrown off that I can't shoot either them or the Forge Gunner.
What we need is a buff to the damage output of Light AV, and that includes making the Plasma Cannon actually viable in the role.
The issue is if that is done and the ADS still retains it's excessively high price. If you can be gunned down by anyone and anything on the map and your asset costs more than any of the assets used against you, you'll rapidly see even less of us active outside of full squads in Ambush matches than you do now.
Pvt Numnutz wrote:
As an assault dropship pilot allow me to correct a few things. They do die, quite often, and not just to rails either but to forge guns and combined swarm launcher efforts. They can be tanked somewhat but not to the degree of a tank, trust me I have max fitting skills For shields and turrets. If you want to fit a tank you have to give up your side turrets, something that I personally won't do. I think the dropships true power lies in its troop carrying capacity and gunner firepower which requires a lot of skill and experience to pull off.
Its true dropships can retreat to the flight ceiling, though keep in mind that's just like an infantry or tank player. The dropships typical operating height is 80-100m at 200m you can barley see anything. When a dropship is 200m up its not a threat to ground forces, the most threatening force would be those jumping out of the dropship. So yes we can fly high up, but we loose any sort of effectiveness by running to that altitude.
The dropship is the most versatile vehicle in dust, it can transport troops quickly above ground and the assault variant has decent fire power. However it costs far more than a tank, and forge guns are still very much a threat. Prototype rail guns can one shot a python, and they cost a couple hundred thousand less than a prototype fit dropship. Keep in mind that dropship pilots don't get paid much, even if they do their job of transport the points aren't very much. My python usually requires 2-3 games of work to earn back, and I have to be doing well to earn that 230k a game which means flying through heavily contested skies hoping I don't get OHK flying to C. Its very stressful and I have spent well over 300mil isk on dropships.
@ the OP, I agree dropships and especially assault dropships should cost less, more than the standard but not more, or much more than a proto fit tank. Every pilot could breath a bit easier and have a little bit of cash in their pockets and a few dropships to fly.
Lately I have been restocking 15 of my cheaper dropships at a time. This costs roughly 9.7mil. If I can't make that isk back With 15 dropships then I'm in the red. Unfortunately there were quite a few redline rail tanks one day and I ended up 3mil short, that's 3 or 4 dropships I can't restock. I'm lucky to break even on a good day, I don't want to talk about my bad days....
Well said.
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straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you. |
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4602
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 07:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
straya fox wrote:@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you.
More than you can even earn in one match?
Also, realize that running the vehicle without such gear guarantees that you'll lose it to AV. Complex Hardeners are almost a necessity, especially for a Python pilot.
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
670
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
straya fox wrote:@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you.
Straya, the unfit hull costs upwards of 300k. Even using militia turrets and modules, dying once means going ISK negative that match. Would it be acceptable if infantry went ISK negative for dying 2-3 times in standard gear? |
straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you. More than you can even earn in one match? Also, realize that running the vehicle without such gear guarantees that you'll lose it to AV. Complex Hardeners are almost a necessity, especially for a Python pilot.
I hear you man, but if you want to run a drop ship with the equivalent power to a proto suit then expect to lose money, it's a pub match, 2 proto drop suit deaths puts you negative ISK. I mean seriously, sounds like you just want to use a proto dropship to stomp pubs and never die. You are starting to sound like a tanker. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9222
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you. More than you can even earn in one match? Also, realize that running the vehicle without such gear guarantees that you'll lose it to AV. Complex Hardeners are almost a necessity, especially for a Python pilot. I hear you man, but if you want to run a drop ship with the equivalent power to a proto suit then expect to lose money, it's a pub match, 2 proto drop suit deaths puts you negative ISK. I mean seriously, sounds like you just want to use a proto dropship to stomp pubs and never die. You are starting to sound like a tanker.
Even just losing the hull without modules (completely weak and exposed against AV) can cost you more than you'll make in a battle. Why is that ok?
EDIT: read post #37 by Awry Barux.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4602
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you. More than you can even earn in one match? Also, realize that running the vehicle without such gear guarantees that you'll lose it to AV. Complex Hardeners are almost a necessity, especially for a Python pilot. I hear you man, but if you want to run a drop ship with the equivalent power to a proto suit then expect to lose money, it's a pub match, 2 proto drop suit deaths puts you negative ISK. I mean seriously, sounds like you just want to use a proto dropship to stomp pubs and never die. You are starting to sound like a tanker.
Okay, first of all, vehicles don't even have tiers the way suits do. You have a basic vehicle, and then specializations of said vehicle.
There is no "non-Proto" or whatever alternative to the Python that a pilot can pull in a match. You either fly a Myron or a Python, and that's it. A Myron is useless by itself as it is intended solely to ferry troops around and provide support from door guns.
By the logic you're trying to base your argument on, anyone who puts SP into vehicles should only use them in PC matches, because they're "Proto gear". Thus a vehicle specialist is supposed to run Starter Fits or whatever infantry gear they might have specced into on the side simply to appease people such as yourself that believe the cost of my vehicle should be astronomical to "punish" me for being able to fly it.
Are you even thinking about this before you make these posts?
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straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Look champ 'proto' when used in relation to vehicles means modules and weapons.
If you want the power then f*cking pay for it, or get on the ground and risk your KDR like everyone else. |
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
382
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Look champ 'proto' when used in relation to vehicles means modules and weapons.
If you want the power then f*cking pay for it, or get on the ground and risk your KDR like everyone else.
Show me on the clone where the assault dropship touched you.
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ladwar
Death by Disassociation
Legacy Rising
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
yes they are... its ccp way of thinking. hopefully they learn some lesson on balancing because relearning then a 3rd or 4th time is just being a R tard.
Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet.
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
732
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Posted - 2014.02.16 08:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
straya fox wrote:@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you.
No sh!t bro. Every dropship I bring onto the field I expect to loose, I learned that a long time ago. Its probably the only thing that has kept me sane. The difference between a prototype suit and a prototype dropship is this, a basic suit can still be effective with a basic weapon. A python requires atleast adv level equipment just to survive, and you have to survive if you want to make isk, because if you loose one dropship a game you will go bankrupt by the end of the week. My 15 pythons must last me a minimum of 30 games for me to break even and that's if me and my crew are top of the boards every game.
They don't have to be as cheap as tanks, but they shouldn't cost so much more. Have you ever tried being a gunner on a python? I fit prototype turrets because when we come in on a run we have little time to get kills and get out, I need as much fire as I can so I'm not sitting in one place for a rail or forge. The gunners I have flown with for months can predict the motion of my dropship and place the shots they need to for us to get out. Blueberry gunners can barley kill 2 guys in the time my gunner's would kill or suppress 5. Adv turrets are still good but for those who are dedicated dropship pilots, that couple percentages make the difference between life and sudden death.
From what I have learned, I fly the best dropship I can so there is a better chance of it coming back, even if the chance is very low. If I just fit my pythons with std and adv mods and turrets it would still cost me 400k or up, only it would be shot down a lot easier by av. If one or two of my proto fit pythons come back then they might survive two and then I have paid it off. The better equipment allows me to stay in the fight for 10 more seconds before I have to leave, that's a potential 3 kills, no man left behind, or distraction for my team, potentially more isk which I sorely need. If I'm not in the fight, or doing something useful then I'm making scraps, prototype gear is the only ones that are really effective for dropships. That is if your a dedicated pilot and your dropship is how you make money. Most of my sp is in dropships 7 or 8 mil. So my dropship is my money maker, but its also my isk sink. If it wasn't so much of a sink then I might have one or two dropships extra and can restock my suits without dipping into the money for dropships. |
straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
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Posted - 2014.02.16 08:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:straya fox wrote:Look champ 'proto' when used in relation to vehicles means modules and weapons.
If you want the power then f*cking pay for it, or get on the ground and risk your KDR like everyone else. Show me on the clone where the assault dropship touched you.
It's not the dropship, the point of my discussion is when rail tanks are nerfed there will be nothing left to take them out. so why do they deserve a price reduction? |
darkiller240
WarRavens
League of Infamy
391
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Posted - 2014.02.16 08:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:They need to stay expensive in order to prevent spam.
Case and point, tanks.
Becuase good Assult dropship pilots are really common
Its the biggest SP/Skill ( And Isk wich is a problem) sink in the game of course its gotto be powerful
spamming such a thing is really hard
There is no militia Ass Dropship
+1 on reducing price to about 90k
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
385
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Posted - 2014.02.16 08:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
darkiller240 wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:They need to stay expensive in order to prevent spam.
Case and point, tanks. Becuase good Assult dropship pilots are really common Its the biggest SP/Skill ( And Isk wich is a problem) sink in the game of course its gotto be powerful spamming such a thing is really hard There is no militia Ass Dropship +1 on reducing price to about 90k
150k would be fine and balanced
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straya fox
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Posted - 2014.02.16 08:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:straya fox wrote:@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you. No sh!t bro. Every dropship I bring onto the field I expect to loose, I learned that a long time ago. Its probably the only thing that has kept me sane. The difference between a prototype suit and a prototype dropship is this, a basic suit can still be effective with a basic weapon. A python requires atleast adv level equipment just to survive, and you have to survive if you want to make isk, because if you loose one dropship a game you will go bankrupt by the end of the week. My 15 pythons must last me a minimum of 30 games for me to break even and that's if me and my crew are top of the boards every game. They don't have to be as cheap as tanks, but they shouldn't cost so much more. Have you ever tried being a gunner on a python? I fit prototype turrets because when we come in on a run we have little time to get kills and get out, I need as much fire as I can so I'm not sitting in one place for a rail or forge. The gunners I have flown with for months can predict the motion of my dropship and place the shots they need to for us to get out. Blueberry gunners can barley kill 2 guys in the time my gunner's would kill or suppress 5. Adv turrets are still good but for those who are dedicated dropship pilots, that couple percentages make the difference between life and sudden death. From what I have learned, I fly the best dropship I can so there is a better chance of it coming back, even if the chance is very low. If I just fit my pythons with std and adv mods and turrets it would still cost me 400k or up, only it would be shot down a lot easier by av. If one or two of my proto fit pythons come back then they might survive two and then I have paid it off. The better equipment allows me to stay in the fight for 10 more seconds before I have to leave, that's a potential 3 kills, no man left behind, or distraction for my team, potentially more isk which I sorely need. If I'm not in the fight, or doing something useful then I'm making scraps, prototype gear is the only ones that are really effective for dropships. That is if your a dedicated pilot and your dropship is how you make money. Most of my sp is in dropships 7 or 8 mil. So my dropship is my money maker, but its also my isk sink. If it wasn't so much of a sink then I might have one or two dropships extra and can restock my suits without dipping into the money for dropships.
And that's cool man, but like EVERYONE ELSE if you want to run proto in pubs expect to lose money. I'm sorry that advanced is not good enough for you, take it up with CCP. But don't whine about cost effectiveness in pubs while running a pro to fit out. |
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
385
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 08:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:straya fox wrote:@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you. No sh!t bro. Every dropship I bring onto the field I expect to loose, I learned that a long time ago. Its probably the only thing that has kept me sane. The difference between a prototype suit and a prototype dropship is this, a basic suit can still be effective with a basic weapon. A python requires atleast adv level equipment just to survive, and you have to survive if you want to make isk, because if you loose one dropship a game you will go bankrupt by the end of the week. My 15 pythons must last me a minimum of 30 games for me to break even and that's if me and my crew are top of the boards every game. They don't have to be as cheap as tanks, but they shouldn't cost so much more. Have you ever tried being a gunner on a python? I fit prototype turrets because when we come in on a run we have little time to get kills and get out, I need as much fire as I can so I'm not sitting in one place for a rail or forge. The gunners I have flown with for months can predict the motion of my dropship and place the shots they need to for us to get out. Blueberry gunners can barley kill 2 guys in the time my gunner's would kill or suppress 5. Adv turrets are still good but for those who are dedicated dropship pilots, that couple percentages make the difference between life and sudden death. From what I have learned, I fly the best dropship I can so there is a better chance of it coming back, even if the chance is very low. If I just fit my pythons with std and adv mods and turrets it would still cost me 400k or up, only it would be shot down a lot easier by av. If one or two of my proto fit pythons come back then they might survive two and then I have paid it off. The better equipment allows me to stay in the fight for 10 more seconds before I have to leave, that's a potential 3 kills, no man left behind, or distraction for my team, potentially more isk which I sorely need. If I'm not in the fight, or doing something useful then I'm making scraps, prototype gear is the only ones that are really effective for dropships. That is if your a dedicated pilot and your dropship is how you make money. Most of my sp is in dropships 7 or 8 mil. So my dropship is my money maker, but its also my isk sink. If it wasn't so much of a sink then I might have one or two dropships extra and can restock my suits without dipping into the money for dropships. And that's cool man, but like EVERYONE ELSE if you want to run proto in pubs expect to lose money. I'm sorry that advanced is not good enough for you, take it up with CCP. But don't whine about cost effectiveness in pubs while running a pro to fit out.
Not everyone uses a proto weapon or proto equipment on a proto suit....
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4603
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 08:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:darkiller240 wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:They need to stay expensive in order to prevent spam.
Case and point, tanks. Becuase good Assult dropship pilots are really common Its the biggest SP/Skill ( And Isk wich is a problem) sink in the game of course its gotto be powerful spamming such a thing is really hard There is no militia Ass Dropship +1 on reducing price to about 90k 150k would be fine and balanced
I'd be quite happy with around 150k.
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straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
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Posted - 2014.02.16 08:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
@NK Scout, i was having a discussion with Numnutz, and he only uses proto fittings on his assault dropship in pubs. I am of the opinion that if thats what you want to run then it's going to be ISK risky. He seems to break even though so i guess he's pretty good at it.
You can't balance a proto fitted dropship to be cost effective in pubs, it's ridiculous. |
darkiller240
WarRavens
League of Infamy
393
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Posted - 2014.02.16 08:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
straya fox wrote:NK Scout wrote:straya fox wrote:Look champ 'proto' when used in relation to vehicles means modules and weapons.
If you want the power then f*cking pay for it, or get on the ground and risk your KDR like everyone else. Show me on the clone where the assault dropship touched you. It's not the dropship, the point of my discussion is when rail tanks are nerfed there will be nothing left to take them out. so why do they deserve a price reduction?
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...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-*...........`~-~-,...(.(-»`*,`,.................
................\llllllllllll,-~*.....................)_-\..*`*;..)....................
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..................|/.../.../~,......-~*,-~*`;................/.\..................
................./.../.../.../..,-,..*~,.`*~*................*...\.................
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................|./.../..../.......)......,.)`*~-,............/....|..)...`~-,.............
..............././.../...,*`-,.....`-,...*`....,---......\..../...../..|.........-»```*~-,,,,
...............(..........)`*~-,....`*`.,-~*.,-*......|.../..../.../............\........
................*-,.......`*-,...`~,..``.,,,-*..........|.,*...,*...|..............\........
...................*,.........`-,...)-,..............,-*`...,-*....(`-,............\.......
......................f`-,.........`-,/...*-,___,,-~*....,-*......|...`-,..........\........
I have a list:
1. FGs--Proto deny an area and if the dropship pilot hardeners are down easy kill
Proto FG +Adv GF= Insta kill
2. Swarms--Yes they are not powerfull untill proto, they shoot crazy fast and ridiculas knockback
3. Heavy turrets--there are more heavy turrets then railgun you know?
4.Small turrets--They hurt and we know it, We use em
5, RDVs--the only other flying vehicle, and our arch enemy
6. PC--Iv seen it happen, you need more then 1 tho
7.Militia Ramming Dropships--REALLY affective and annoying
8. Instelations--Sometimes they just hate you
9. Random combustion
10. Tankers excuse for tanks not being OP-- Use another Ass dropship if its so easy ( its not)
11.Null Cannons
12. MMC missiles
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4607
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Posted - 2014.02.16 08:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
straya fox wrote:@NK Scout, i was having a discussion with Numnutz, and he only uses proto fittings on his assault dropship in pubs. I am of the opinion that if thats what you want to run then it's going to be ISK risky. He seems to break even though so i guess he's pretty good at it.
You can't balance a proto fitted dropship to be cost effective in pubs, it's ridiculous.
Keep in mind that they hull alone with NO modules costs more than your average Skirmish match payout.
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
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Posted - 2014.02.16 08:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
straya fox wrote:
And that's cool man, but like EVERYONE ELSE if you want to run proto in pubs expect to lose money. I'm sorry that advanced is not good enough for you, take it up with CCP. But don't whine about cost effectiveness in pubs while running a pro to fit out.
Well I don't know how to explain it to you any more clearly than I just did But I'll try anyway. Assault dropships are expensive before you fit anything on it, be it milita, std, adv, or pro. In a dust where milita rail tanks and wiki forge guns can OHK you, if your bringing anything less than proto on a python your going to loose a lot of isk, PC especially where av players know how to counter a dropship, FW where you don't make any isk back, or pub matches where most players not involved in PC play where all kinds of sh!t can happen, your going to be scraping by if your lucky, and buddy that's pretty ******* lucky.
TL;DR dropships need prototype gear to survive. They need to survive at least one game to make any isk. |
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
385
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 08:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
straya fox wrote:@NK Scout, i was having a discussion with Numnutz, and he only uses proto fittings on his assault dropship in pubs. I am of the opinion that if thats what you want to run then it's going to be ISK risky. He seems to break even though so i guess he's pretty good at it.
You can't balance a proto fitted dropship to be cost effective in pubs, it's ridiculous.
I can too if there isnt much av resistance, and the only way to use a python is a complex hardener with comp,ex pg upgrade, and incubus need complex heavy rep to do ****
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
385
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 08:27:00 -
[56] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:straya fox wrote:
And that's cool man, but like EVERYONE ELSE if you want to run proto in pubs expect to lose money. I'm sorry that advanced is not good enough for you, take it up with CCP. But don't whine about cost effectiveness in pubs while running a pro to fit out.
Well I don't know how to explain it to you any more clearly than I just did But I'll try anyway. Assault dropships are expensive before you fit anything on it, be it milita, std, adv, or pro. In a dust where milita rail tanks and wiki forge guns can OHK you, if your bringing anything less than proto on a python your going to loose a lot of isk, PC especially where av players know how to counter a dropship, FW where you don't make any isk back, or pub matches where most players not involved in PC play where all kinds of sh!t can happen, your going to be scraping by if your lucky, and buddy that's pretty ******* lucky. TL;DR dropships need prototype gear to survive. They need to survive at least one game to make any isk.
2 or 3 games, isk payouts are around 170k
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
straya fox
Sad Panda Solutions
221
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 08:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
Fair enough guys you have convinced me, make them cheaper, but there has to be a counter besides a rail tank. If AV is not buffed then things are going to be in a terrible state.
I have knocked off a few with my forge gun but it's hardly reliable against a good pilot with a 2.5- 3 sec charge time. These kills are mostly guys that don't move after the first hit, who knows why not.
I just got my back up a bit because the sentiments you guys were putting across were very similar to pre 1.7 tank threads and look what happened.
Any way thanks for the discussion. i'm out. |
darkiller240
WarRavens
League of Infamy
394
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 08:41:00 -
[58] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Fair enough guys you have convinced me, make them cheaper, but there has to be a counter besides a rail tank. If AV is not buffed then things are going to be in a terrible state.
I have knocked off a few with my forge gun but it's hardly reliable against a good pilot with a 2.5- 3 sec charge time. These kills are mostly guys that don't move after the first hit, who knows why not.
I just got my back up a bit because the sentiments you guys were putting across were very similar to pre 1.7 tank threads and look what happened.
Any way thanks for the discussion. i'm out.
No massive Diference
Ass Dropships Are Hard To Fly Effectively
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
|
Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
733
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 08:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:
2 or 3 games, isk payouts are around 170k
My mistake, yeah 170k is my typical pay, 250k when my gunner goes 24 kills but those games are far in between. Usually there is some av to keep us at bay and we walk away with 8-11 kills depending on the av guys skills. I swear its like NPC corps pay us less for calling one down in a battle. Their like "oh you brought that piece of sh!t to fight my battle?! Your pay is getting cut!" Even if we tip the battle by moving hackers around or dropping reinforcements or killing uplinks or destroying turrets or providing overwatch  |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
220
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 08:49:00 -
[60] - Quote
Insanely high cost goes hand and hand with being insanely overpowered. |
|
|
darkiller240
WarRavens
League of Infamy
395
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 08:50:00 -
[61] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Insanely high cost goes hand and hand with being insanely overpowered.
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...............(..........)`*~-,....`*`.,-~*.,-*......|.../..../.../............\........
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......................f`-,.........`-,/...*-,___,,-~*....,-*......|...`-,..........\........
Have you tried flying one?
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
|
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
League of Infamy
554
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 08:56:00 -
[62] - Quote
Absolutely, especially with the overall reduction in vehicle prices in 1.7. When normal dropships cost several hundred grad, tanks cost about half a million, and an ADS was more or less the same, it was 'in line.' Something costing a lot of money isn't a balancing factor, especially when the result isn't that powerful overall. I bet a dedicated LAV gunner could get more kills in a match than an ADS pilot and a decent Infantryman WILL get more kills as well as be able to hack locations.
Burning half a million isk each death to do probably the most difficult and one of the lowest rewarding (in a material way) roles in the game is bad form... |
Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1707
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 08:58:00 -
[63] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut.
Agreed, it should be more (it's a tech 2 hull after all), but it shouldn't be THAT much more.
Sadly, once Caps get ahold of manufacturing, it'll be a lot more 
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
|
darkiller240
WarRavens
League of Infamy
395
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 09:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Agreed, it should be more (it's a tech 2 hull after all), but it shouldn't be THAT much more. Sadly, once Caps get ahold of manufacturing, it'll be a lot more
Do you know that the gallente Government is corrupt
Go ahead look it up, i find it kinda funny
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
|
Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
734
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 09:05:00 -
[65] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Fair enough guys you have convinced me, make them cheaper, but there has to be a counter besides a rail tank. If AV is not buffed then things are going to be in a terrible state.
I have knocked off a few with my forge gun but it's hardly reliable against a good pilot with a 2.5- 3 sec charge time. These kills are mostly guys that don't move after the first hit, who knows why not.
I just got my back up a bit because the sentiments you guys were putting across were very similar to pre 1.7 tank threads and look what happened.
Any way thanks for the discussion. i'm out.
Many dropship pilots agree with you, myself included. Light av should be buffed a bit, though it should take at least two swarms to bring down a proto fit dropship or else dropships would just be really expensive suits. I wouldn't mind giving the forge gun less of a charge up time but I have seen some talented forge gunners fight off dropships in 1.7.
I have great respect for forge gunners because they need as much skill as a dropship pilot to do their job. Unlike rail tanks.
I can understand your concerns for assault dropships going the way of the tank. Let me reassure you, good assault dropship pilots have spent way to much time getting good at flying to make it into an op FOTM. Dropships are challenging and that's fun, without a challenge it would be stale.
It takes far too much sp to be a FOTM anyway because you need at least 5mil skill points to be effective as an assault dropship pilot, something every ace pilot is proud of.
Assault dropship spam won't happen, and would be hilarious to watch if rookies tried. To become proficient at flying you have to spend a couple months flying and getting shot down. I have flown in dropship squadrons and it is chaos, dropships crash into each other all the time, redline rails make short work of them and av makes collisions happen all the time. The squadrons I flew with contained some of the best pilots I know on dust and it was very hard to keep everything coordinated. If you want to fly in a squadron you need 6 months minimum of flight time plus a few weeks of flying with another dropship before you even consider becoming a squadron pilot. ADS spam is only for very experienced pilots and even then its very easily countered, trust me I know.
Anyway glad you can see where we are coming from, have a good night, come fly with us sometime and see what we are talking about.
(Also I'm starting to realize how backwards the dropship world is compared to the rest of dust) |
darkiller240
WarRavens
League of Infamy
395
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 09:09:00 -
[66] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:straya fox wrote:Fair enough guys you have convinced me, make them cheaper, but there has to be a counter besides a rail tank. If AV is not buffed then things are going to be in a terrible state.
I have knocked off a few with my forge gun but it's hardly reliable against a good pilot with a 2.5- 3 sec charge time. These kills are mostly guys that don't move after the first hit, who knows why not.
I just got my back up a bit because the sentiments you guys were putting across were very similar to pre 1.7 tank threads and look what happened.
Any way thanks for the discussion. i'm out. Many dropship pilots agree with you, myself included. Light av should be buffed a bit, though it should take at least two swarms to bring down a proto fit dropship or else dropships would just be really expensive suits. I wouldn't mind giving the forge gun less of a charge up time but I have seen some talented forge gunners fight off dropships in 1.7. I have great respect for forge gunners because they need as much skill as a dropship pilot to do their job. Unlike rail tanks. I can understand your concerns for assault dropships going the way of the tank. Let me reassure you, good assault dropship pilots have spent way to much time getting good at flying to make it into an op FOTM. Dropships are challenging and that's fun, without a challenge it would be stale. It takes far too much sp to be a FOTM anyway because you need at least 5mil skill points to be effective as an assault dropship pilot, something every ace pilot is proud of. Assault dropship spam won't happen, and would be hilarious to watch if rookies tried. To become proficient at flying you have to spend a couple months flying and getting shot down. I have flown in dropship squadrons and it is chaos, dropships crash into each other all the time, redline rails make short work of them and av makes collisions happen all the time. The squadrons I flew with contained some of the best pilots I know on dust and it was very hard to keep everything coordinated. If you want to fly in a squadron you need 6 months minimum of flight time plus a few weeks of flying with another dropship before you even consider becoming a squadron pilot. ADS spam is only for very experienced pilots and even then its very easily countered, trust me I know. Anyway glad you can see where we are coming from, have a good night, come fly with us sometime and see what we are talking about. (Also I'm starting to realize how backwards the dropship world is compared to the rest of dust)
What do you mean backward?
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
|
Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
734
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 09:18:00 -
[67] - Quote
darkiller240 wrote:What do you mean backward?
I mean opposite of the normal ideology of dust. Pythons fit proto to survive rather than slay, spam is actually worse than just 3 ADS and is only effective with skilled pilots as opposed to tank spam or cal logies back in the day, dropships fly, they cost a lot in both sp and isk for something that is very fragile. Pretty backwards from your average grunts perspective  I dunno maybe I'm just tired.... |
darkiller240
WarRavens
League of Infamy
396
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 09:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:darkiller240 wrote:What do you mean backward? I mean opposite of the normal ideology of dust. Pythons fit proto to survive rather than slay, spam is actually worse than just 3 ADS and is only effective with skilled pilots as opposed to tank spam or cal logies back in the day, dropships fly, they cost a lot in both sp and isk for something that is very fragile. Pretty backwards from your average grunts perspective I dunno maybe I'm just tired....
hmm i see it
Like paying a lot to have less
Reverse physiology
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
|
negative49er
Profits Of Mayhem
506
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 14:03:00 -
[69] - Quote
it make no sense that the basic dropsuit cost lot more than specialize dropships, while a ADS pilot have to shovel out isk just to buy a hull that even well fitted can easily taken down, by a super cheap tank that can do more dmg than a ADS
Also when change "Aim down sight" and Assault Dropship
ADS
ADS
Dedicated Shotgun Scout and professional backstabber
|
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2284
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 14:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
Yes, but that isn't going to remain the case. Like I said, CCP Remnant made a post about a month back where he said they're "unsatisfied with the current state of Light AV vs Vehicles".
As well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. I've so far lost 3 Pythons to some really good AV players luring me down to lower altitude, and then using the kinetic impact of multiple Swarm launchers to throw me into buildings or hills.
So you crashed... Have you ever tried flying an ADS? It's not nearly as easy as some people make it look. Edit: He may have been doing absolutely everything right, only to get surprised by swarms, which really knock a dropship as light as the Python around. Bumping into a wall will drop the vast majority of your shields and make it even harder to maintain control, at which point tapping another wall will probably destroy the dropship. If that doesn't get you, the followup swarm volleys probably will, unless you're skilled enough to maintain control and get out of there extremely quickly, which is very, very hard.
So what happens if there are no buildings to crash into?
Look, I don't take my ADS because of rail tanks. That is literally it. The only deterrent is a rail tank.
If they buff the ADS or drop the price while nerfing rails or tanks in general, then we run the risk of having another 1.7 super tank spam fest.
Everybody called tanks becoming spam-able and OP in 1.7 and if something like this happened then it will be the same for ADS.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
|
|
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Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
215
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 14:49:00 -
[71] - Quote
I have been a pilot since Chromosome so I have a fair amount of experience, never tried flying in a squadron though (hard to find that many other pilots willing/able to come together). So here is my thoughts:
Assault dropships are overpriced for the current vulnerabilities they have
Left unchecked an assault dropship slaughters infantry, there are very few indoors locations in dust that are suitable for hiding from an assault dropship. I have had games where I went 23-0 and that is with a incubus fit with MLT missile turrets.
Rail tanks need fall off, just like every other weapon. Give them 450m of optimal with fall off out to 600 and reduce their turret tilt from 45 degrees to about 25 degree. This will pull them out of the redline and stop them from shooting dropships at high altitude. Indirectly this will answer damage mods too as a triple damage modded shield tank will be too weak to defend itself.
With the 1.8 buff to sentinel suits it will make life as a dropship pilot horrible. They are already difficult enough to kill with missiles (the only small turret effective vs infantry) and with the upcoming resistances they are getting missiles will be 25% less effective so a Caldari Sentinel (where shields have 30% resistance to explosives) will be every dropship pilot's nightmare. He will see you before you see him, he will get the first strike, he has a ton of tank, he has plenty of gank, and he can show up almost anywhere on the map but you won't know it till he shoots at you.
Even if a dropship manages to kill a 1.8 sentinel, he will be such a problem that the dropship will be incapable of accomplishing anything else on the battlefield. Now while I support heavies being able to 1v1 vehicles, as a dropship pilot it is very irritating as I have nowhere to hide so I am forced to engage you. Imagine if there was an infantry player that, as soon as he spawned, you were forced to fight him and could do nothing else until you defeated him then had until he respawned to accomplish anything else. It's not enjoyable, even more so if said person is more skilled than yourself. Now I cannot fly my dropship, not to mention I am wagering more on the result of the battle than he is (dropship vs sentinel suit cost) |
RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
118
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 15:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
straya fox wrote:NK Scout wrote:straya fox wrote:Look champ 'proto' when used in relation to vehicles means modules and weapons.
If you want the power then f*cking pay for it, or get on the ground and risk your KDR like everyone else. Show me on the clone where the assault dropship touched you. It's not the dropship, the point of my discussion is when rail tanks are nerfed there will be nothing left to take them out. so why do they deserve a price reduction?
Have you ever used a forge gun? There isn't a dropship in the game that can tank the damage from a forge gunner.
I believe this is the last vestige of hope for red line tanks to have an argument as to why they shouldn't get nerfed.
Tanks do not spin around when hit with AV.
Tanks are not difficult to pilot.
In a dropship you cannot kill infantry at any altitude higher than 100meters. You can't even see infantry above 100 meters.
As a proto forger I promise you that rail tanks in no way are the only counter to ADS. Rail tanks are terrible for a multitude of reasons, yet people still try to justify them.
As a forger I would jump for joy if the skies were full of ADS. I would rather have those all day than supertards spamming rail tanks and shooting down every vehicle before an RDV can drop it in the field.
We can pickle that.
|
RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
118
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 15:08:00 -
[73] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Awry Barux wrote:straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
Yes, but that isn't going to remain the case. Like I said, CCP Remnant made a post about a month back where he said they're "unsatisfied with the current state of Light AV vs Vehicles".
As well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. I've so far lost 3 Pythons to some really good AV players luring me down to lower altitude, and then using the kinetic impact of multiple Swarm launchers to throw me into buildings or hills.
So you crashed... Have you ever tried flying an ADS? It's not nearly as easy as some people make it look. Edit: He may have been doing absolutely everything right, only to get surprised by swarms, which really knock a dropship as light as the Python around. Bumping into a wall will drop the vast majority of your shields and make it even harder to maintain control, at which point tapping another wall will probably destroy the dropship. If that doesn't get you, the followup swarm volleys probably will, unless you're skilled enough to maintain control and get out of there extremely quickly, which is very, very hard. So what happens if there are no buildings to crash into? Look, I don't take my ADS because of rail tanks. That is literally it. The only deterrent is a rail tank. If they buff the ADS or drop the price while nerfing rails or tanks in general, then we run the risk of having another 1.7 super tank spam fest. Everybody called tanks becoming spam-able and OP in 1.7 and if something like this happened then it will be the same for ADS.
Obvious red line rail tanker is obvious.
We can pickle that.
|
Cmdr Wolfe
Carbon 7
CRONOS.
16
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 16:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
when they first came out it was 1.2 mil isk for a proto assault dropship.. so stop your whinning
|
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2851
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 16:40:00 -
[75] - Quote
1) You can't balance power on ISK.
2) AV will become stronger vs dropships in 1.8
3) A balanced asset cannot cost more than one match's reward.
We went through the ISK cost balance argument with tanks months ago. If an asset costs multiple matches to replace, then the argument goes it has to last the entire match. That in turn means it must be pretty much unkillable. CCP lowered vehicle cost so they could make them vulnerable yet still usable.
Yes prototype equipment should be expensive, but the ADS isn't so much an upgrade to the STD dropship as a side-grade variant. It trades fitting and eHP for maneuverability and a pilot controlled gun. That makes it a STD ship rather than ADV, and nowhere near PRO. That's right, there are no advanced vehicles in the game and there may never be.
The upshot is that the ADS pilot is paying a premium to fly alone, something that every tank driver can do by default. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9237
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 17:13:00 -
[76] - Quote
Cmdr Wolfe wrote:when they first came out it was 1.2 mil isk for a proto assault dropship.. so stop your whinning
Prices going from extremely insane to just insane is still pretty ******* insane.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
|
Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
748
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 21:22:00 -
[77] - Quote
Cmdr Wolfe wrote:when they first came out it was 1.2 mil isk for a proto assault dropship.. so stop your whinning
Those days were horrible. Still prices are high for what we buy. |
Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1712
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 21:46:00 -
[78] - Quote
darkiller240 wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Agreed, it should be more (it's a tech 2 hull after all), but it shouldn't be THAT much more. Sadly, once Caps get ahold of manufacturing, it'll be a lot more Do you know that the gallente Government is corrupt Go ahead look it up, i find it kinda funny
No **** sherlock.
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
|
Smooth Assassin
Stardust Incorporation
IMMORTAL REGIME
887
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 21:47:00 -
[79] - Quote
They are too efficient, killing enemies with 2 shot from a missile launcher, and as they say "death from above"
Assassination is my thing.
|
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2312
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 21:50:00 -
[80] - Quote
RemingtonBeaver wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Awry Barux wrote:straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
Yes, but that isn't going to remain the case. Like I said, CCP Remnant made a post about a month back where he said they're "unsatisfied with the current state of Light AV vs Vehicles".
As well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. I've so far lost 3 Pythons to some really good AV players luring me down to lower altitude, and then using the kinetic impact of multiple Swarm launchers to throw me into buildings or hills.
So you crashed... Have you ever tried flying an ADS? It's not nearly as easy as some people make it look. Edit: He may have been doing absolutely everything right, only to get surprised by swarms, which really knock a dropship as light as the Python around. Bumping into a wall will drop the vast majority of your shields and make it even harder to maintain control, at which point tapping another wall will probably destroy the dropship. If that doesn't get you, the followup swarm volleys probably will, unless you're skilled enough to maintain control and get out of there extremely quickly, which is very, very hard. So what happens if there are no buildings to crash into? Look, I don't take my ADS because of rail tanks. That is literally it. The only deterrent is a rail tank. If they buff the ADS or drop the price while nerfing rails or tanks in general, then we run the risk of having another 1.7 super tank spam fest. Everybody called tanks becoming spam-able and OP in 1.7 and if something like this happened then it will be the same for ADS. Obvious red line rail tanker is obvious. The funniest part about your post is that it is the ultimate argument as to why the rail tanks are so out of balance. "I don't take my ADS because of rail tanks. That is literally it." So an entire vehicle should be denied in the game because of another one? *facepalm* so dumb. uhhhh, I don't tank?
I'm not arguing that redline tanking is good, in fact, it's broken and OP...yet it is the ONLY thing that can counter the incubus ADS.
Thank you for proving my point.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9265
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 01:04:00 -
[81] - Quote
/me slashes prices with nova knives
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Darken-Soul
BIG BAD W0LVES
729
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 01:19:00 -
[82] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:considering that without concentrated AV players or a railtank, assault derpships can completely dominate a map I'd say the cost is justified.
the railgun and it's interaction with damage mods is what's overpowered.
I can two shot one and I don't use damage mods. You guys are barking up the wrong tree again.
Who wants some?
|
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1237
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 01:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
put 6 ADS's in the air and there is no more OP thing in the game...
I don't know how they could limit the use more then what they did...
I do believe ADS's where on the chopping block with Logistic DS's.. but for some reason they got lobbied to stay.. The cost probably never fully got adjusted with everything else as it was never fully planned to be kept. |
Beld Errmon
0uter.Heaven
1348
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 01:24:00 -
[84] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:straya fox wrote:What can kill an assault dropship besides a broken rail tank? Fairly sure rail tanks are going to be looked at soon, and with your idea of cheap assault dropships, doesn't take a genius to work out what will happen. it's not the railguns they should be looking at it's the dmg mods which they are nerfing anyway Yeah the whole set up with tanks in general, but i still don't know how else to reliable suppress an assault dropship without one.
Its called a forge gun dipshit. |
RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
124
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 02:17:00 -
[85] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:[quote=RemingtonBeaver][quote=Cody Sietz]
I'm not arguing that redline tanking is good, in fact, it's broken and OP...yet it is the ONLY thing that can counter the incubus ADS.
Thank you for proving my point.
Forge guns, swarms, missle tanks, blaster tanks, any kind of turret. Considering ADS pilots have to come into within 100 meters to attack ground troops I'm going to say AV grenades too. Oh and I've dealt the death blow to a dropship with an AV grenade too, so there's that.
What is the counter for a red line rail tank? Oh, absolutely nothing? LAV bomb and pray you make it to the dickless asshat before the timer goes off?
There is no justification for the garbage that is rail tanks.
We can pickle that.
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
209
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 02:53:00 -
[86] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you. More than you can even earn in one match? Also, realize that running the vehicle without such gear guarantees that you'll lose it to AV. Complex Hardeners are almost a necessity, especially for a Python pilot. I hear you man, but if you want to run a drop ship with the equivalent power to a proto suit then expect to lose money, it's a pub match, 2 proto drop suit deaths puts you negative ISK. I mean seriously, sounds like you just want to use a proto dropship to stomp pubs and never die. You are starting to sound like a tanker. Even just losing the hull without modules (completely weak and exposed against AV) can cost you more than you'll make in a battle. Why is that ok? EDIT: read post #37 by Awry Barux.
What's that saying in EVE? Don't use what you can't afford to lose??
Whenever I see an ads in a pub ambush they usually have 1 extra turret at most and seem to be almost perma hardened - any ADS I've ever taken down with a proto forge has been by bad luck of the pilot - usually I just hear them laugh as they fly over my head and missile me to death. |
RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
124
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 03:03:00 -
[87] - Quote
Happy Violentime wrote:
What's that saying in EVE? Don't use what you can't afford to lose??
Whenever I see an ads in a pub ambush they usually have 1 extra turret at most and seem to be almost perma hardened - any ADS I've ever taken down with a proto forge has been by bad luck of the pilot - usually I just hear them laugh as they fly over my head and missile me to death.
What level is your forge at? Because I've never had a dropship take one shot from me and stay anywhere near me...and live.
And as far as this "don't use what you can't afford to use" goes. You actually have to be able to use something. Call in a dropship with rails on the field. Feel the glorious power for the entire 3 seconds you're in the air. That's if it even makes off the RDV before it's railed to death.
We can pickle that.
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
749
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 04:20:00 -
[88] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:put 6 ADS's in the air and there is no more OP thing in the game...
I don't know how they could limit the use more then what they did...
I do believe ADS's where on the chopping block with Logistic DS's.. but for some reason they got lobbied to stay.. The cost probably never fully got adjusted with everything else as it was never fully planned to be kept.
Okay you don't know how dropships work. If there are 6 in the air they are good pilots. I dare you or anyone else that doesn't know how to fly to try calling in 6 assault dropships and not smack into each other.
They kept it because almost every pilot wanted them to stay. I wanted them to stay because of the way they handle, not because of the pilot turret. |
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1597
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 05:24:00 -
[89] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut.
Agree 100%. Too East to kill. too costly. They should cost only 25% more.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
127
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 05:39:00 -
[90] - Quote
One of the funnest games I've played in Dust was one where the enemy called in 4 dropships and my team called in dropships and we battled it out in the skies. It devolved into ramming into each other, but that was towards the end of the match. Come to think of it, it was Kujo and some of his mates in the dropships.
That being said, dropships are amazing fun. Yes they cost too much and you'll go broke before you even learn to properly pilot, but with rail turrets and rail tanks being completely broken, matches like that are not going to happen for new players. This completely takes away a truly fun part of the game.
We can pickle that.
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
162
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 05:49:00 -
[91] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:They need to stay expensive in order to prevent spam.
Case and point, tanks. You can spam tanks because they're easy. Flying an ADS effectively takes quite a bit more skill than people seem to think. It took me at least a week before I could reliably get kills, and I'm still learning even now that I'm pretty dangerous in one. I still can't fight other ADS worth ****. We have more then enough people who can run assault drop ships. Its the cost that kept them from being spammed. They have 1 effective counter as of right now, and that is rail tanks. Breach forge guns with dmg mods work, but only for pythons. I have yet to see a Incubus be taken out of the sky by anything other then a rail tanks, and that is only extremely open maps with redlined that can overlook the entire map.
What about a solid projectile version of a breach that is designed to hit armour instead? I know I have a huge problem with skilled forge, but I can not really say anything about incubus as I don't fly them anymore.
FAME
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
731
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 05:52:00 -
[92] - Quote
RemingtonBeaver wrote:One of the funnest games I've played in Dust was one where the enemy called in 4 dropships and my team called in dropships and we battled it out in the skies. It devolved into ramming into each other, but that was towards the end of the match. Come to think of it, it was Kujo and some of his mates in the dropships.
That being said, dropships are amazing fun. Yes they cost too much and you'll go broke before you even learn to properly pilot, but with rail turrets and rail tanks being completely broken, matches like that are not going to happen for new players. This completely takes away a truly fun part of the game.
Agreed. As a rookie ADS pilot I've been punching myself in the face by playing tankbush, just because it has no redline rails and usually just blaster tanks or one rail tank. It's still tons of fun. The Python feels like a Ferrari of the sky. It's worth every single ISK. |
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
162
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 05:53:00 -
[93] - Quote
RemingtonBeaver wrote:Happy Violentime wrote:
What's that saying in EVE? Don't use what you can't afford to lose??
Whenever I see an ads in a pub ambush they usually have 1 extra turret at most and seem to be almost perma hardened - any ADS I've ever taken down with a proto forge has been by bad luck of the pilot - usually I just hear them laugh as they fly over my head and missile me to death.
What level is your forge at? Because I've never had a dropship take one shot from me and stay anywhere near me...and live. And as far as this "don't use what you can't afford to use" goes. You actually have to be able to use something. Call in a dropship with rails on the field. Feel the glorious power for the entire 3 seconds you're in the air. That's if it even makes off the RDV before it's railed to death.
I take up that challenge gladly. With two enhanced hardeners and a enhance heavy shield extender I can take prolonged fire from proto forge. I am not perfect yet in forge v ads, but practice makes perfect!
FAME
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Vulpes Dolosus
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
950
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 05:55:00 -
[94] - Quote
Cost is fine.
500k for a fully proto-ed ship (mods and turret).
That's about 2 good games per ship. If you're losing more than that, even with rail tanks currently (why are you risking an ADS with a redline rail tank on the field anyway?), you're doing it wrong.
ADS Kills: Lost count a while ago...
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
409
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 05:59:00 -
[95] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Cost is fine.
500k for a fully proto-ed ship (mods and turret).
That's about 2 good games per ship. If you're losing more than that, even with rail tanks currently (why are you risking an ADS with a redline rail tank on the field anyway?), you're doing it wrong.
Its 1.6 all over again, you dont know it but someone pulled out a forge and ypur forced to recall
I speced into something I shouldnt be forced to put it away or lose it.
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
409
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 06:01:00 -
[96] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:RemingtonBeaver wrote:Happy Violentime wrote:
What's that saying in EVE? Don't use what you can't afford to lose??
Whenever I see an ads in a pub ambush they usually have 1 extra turret at most and seem to be almost perma hardened - any ADS I've ever taken down with a proto forge has been by bad luck of the pilot - usually I just hear them laugh as they fly over my head and missile me to death.
What level is your forge at? Because I've never had a dropship take one shot from me and stay anywhere near me...and live. And as far as this "don't use what you can't afford to use" goes. You actually have to be able to use something. Call in a dropship with rails on the field. Feel the glorious power for the entire 3 seconds you're in the air. That's if it even makes off the RDV before it's railed to death. I take up that challenge gladly. With two enhanced hardeners and a enhance heavy shield extender I can take prolonged fire from proto forge. I am not perfect yet in forge v ads, but practice makes perfect!
Thats if the forge sucks.....
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
731
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 06:02:00 -
[97] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Cost is fine.
500k for a fully proto-ed ship (mods and turret).
That's about 2 good games per ship. If you're losing more than that, even with rail tanks currently (why are you risking an ADS with a redline rail tank on the field anyway?), you're doing it wrong.
500k for fully proto-ed is fine.
350k for fully militia'd is not.
Also, it's ridiculous that a single enemy can deny an entire playstyle purely by virtue of existing with a 70k tank. |
Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
751
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 07:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Cost is fine.
500k for a fully proto-ed ship (mods and turret).
That's about 2 good games per ship. If you're losing more than that, even with rail tanks currently (why are you risking an ADS with a redline rail tank on the field anyway?), you're doing it wrong.
Where are you getting mods and turrets for so cheap? My full proto fit is 707k and my dropship for one gunner runs me 650k. I want a cost effective dropship like that
Dropship pilots typically get paid leas per game than the average player. Not sure why but I have noticed it. For me its 2-3 good games to pay of one of my raptors, sometimes I do get 250k if me and my gunners kill 4 tanks and some infantry but that's a challenge.
Why do I risk my python when there is a redline rail on the field, good question. That's most of the games I play honestly. Some maps just aren't good for dropships, some are excellent, but all are good for rail tanks. So on the maps that I can fly I fly, typically the enemy calls down a rail tank in the red and I can't always be watching there. Unlike tanks I can't look independently from the direction I'm moving. So quite frequently I don't know there even is a rail tank in the battle, because 9 times out of 10 they aren't even on the battlefield. |
Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
734
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 07:26:00 -
[99] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Cost is fine.
500k for a fully proto-ed ship (mods and turret).
That's about 2 good games per ship. If you're losing more than that, even with rail tanks currently (why are you risking an ADS with a redline rail tank on the field anyway?), you're doing it wrong. Where are you getting mods and turrets for so cheap? My full proto fit is 707k and my dropship for one gunner runs me 650k. I want a cost effective dropship like that Dropship pilots typically get paid leas per game than the average player. Not sure why but I have noticed it. For me its 2-3 good games to pay of one of my raptors, sometimes I do get 250k if me and my gunners kill 4 tanks and some infantry but that's a challenge. Why do I risk my python when there is a redline rail on the field, good question. That's most of the games I play honestly. Some maps just aren't good for dropships, some are excellent, but all are good for rail tanks. So on the maps that I can fly I fly, typically the enemy calls down a rail tank in the red and I can't always be watching there. Unlike tanks I can't look independently from the direction I'm moving. So quite frequently I don't know there even is a rail tank in the battle, because 9 times out of 10 they aren't even on the battlefield. Edit: also about half of my sp is in dropships (23mil sp char), I hate being a quitter because someone called down a milita tank. Sometimes if I have my gunners with me I can fly into the redline and put out enough fire power to kill the tank and make it out of the red with 3 seconds or less on the clock. Because flying my python in dust is where I get my fun, if I recalled every time a rail tank was called I might as well have not spent any sp into dropships.
I've been managing to break even recently by taking a minute out of my ADS time to throw down uplinks (I use my M-1 logi BPO as a pilot suit with two sets of advanced uplinks and a rep tool). I put them in high places after calling my ADS if the map has good spots or otherwise just on the ground as I move to a safe zone to call my ADS in. These combined with some kills will often put me in the top 5 for WP and get me 200-250k for an ambush or 300k for a good skirmish match. |
Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
751
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 08:51:00 -
[100] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:
I've been managing to break even recently by taking a minute out of my ADS time to throw down uplinks (I use my M-1 logi BPO as a pilot suit with two sets of advanced uplinks and a rep tool). I put them in high places after calling my ADS if the map has good spots or otherwise just on the ground as I move to a safe zone to call my ADS in. These combined with some kills will often put me in the top 5 for WP and get me 200-250k for an ambush or 300k for a good skirmish match.
That's a perfectly good tactic and I know judge does it a lot but I tend not to because blueberries usually abuse them and cost us the game. Though that is one way to earn your money back. I usually fly with someone who can drop uplinks anyway so they usually take care of it. |
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 09:10:00 -
[101] - Quote
straya fox wrote:NK Scout wrote:straya fox wrote:Look champ 'proto' when used in relation to vehicles means modules and weapons.
If you want the power then f*cking pay for it, or get on the ground and risk your KDR like everyone else. Show me on the clone where the assault dropship touched you. It's not the dropship, the point of my discussion is when rail tanks are nerfed there will be nothing left to take them out. so why do they deserve a price reduction?
Exept forges, collison, proto swarms, blasters, missile turrets, rail turrets after nerf...
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2328
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 14:50:00 -
[102] - Quote
RemingtonBeaver wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:[quote=RemingtonBeaver][quote=Cody Sietz]
I'm not arguing that redline tanking is good, in fact, it's broken and OP...yet it is the ONLY thing that can counter the incubus ADS.
Thank you for proving my point. Forge guns, swarms, missle tanks, blaster tanks, any kind of turret. Considering ADS pilots have to come into within 100 meters to attack ground troops I'm going to say AV grenades too. Oh and I've dealt the death blow to a dropship with an AV grenade too, so there's that. What is the counter for a red line rail tank? Oh, absolutely nothing? LAV bomb and pray you make it to the dickless asshat before the timer goes off? There is no justification for the garbage that is rail tanks.
I have never tossed a AV nade 100 meters.
I have yet to take out a ADS with Proto swarms. I have tried, guy kept flying up in the air, then coming back ten seconds later to kill me.
Blaster tanks only kill dropships if they get the jump on them of if the guy flying is dumb enough to hang around.
A Proto breach FG is a ground soldiers only good option vs a ADS. Pretty hard to use, and takes some seriously investment.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
162
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 16:11:00 -
[103] - Quote
One point to consider, although I really don't consider it valid, is that you need a solid team. With my corp, we specialize in vehicles. Alone or with simple infantry I lose about a mil in costs every five games. But witi my vehicle corp, we field two tanks, at least me in an ads and the rest are infantry. With just my crew and no qsyncin I made a 500k profit over 4 games. Should we be forced to play in a squad? Idk, but it definetly makes things more manageable.
Join PAND3M0N1UM we will train and support your profit margin.
FAME
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The-Errorist
508
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 00:42:00 -
[104] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut.
I do agree that a 7x cost increase is absurd, but only having 20% cost increase for specializations is far too little; specialized vehicles should just be 3x the cost; in the case assault dropship, it should be 135k. |
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
430
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 00:43:00 -
[105] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. I do agree that a 7x cost increase is absurd, but only having 20% cost increase for specializations is far too little; specialized vehicles should just be 3x the cost; in the case assault dropship, it should be 135k.
Or 150k, either way it needs to go down...
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
825
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 06:33:00 -
[106] - Quote
So, I died in a new way today. I always thought it was possible but incredibly unlikely, and it happened: I got hit by one of the falling turret installations in an Ambush OMS match. The collision took out my full hardened shield and about 1/4 of my armor, and slamming into the ground from the impact did the rest. I laughed, then remembered what an expensive asset I just lost. |
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
683
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 07:23:00 -
[107] - Quote
Honestly, have any of you who are against ADS price decrease actually flown one? For one match? Any takers?
At a minimum, ADS need a price decrease, hands down. 120k would be optimal. They need some more work beyond that, but a price decrease at least means I can fly one without worrying about having to go 2-3 matches to replace it should I lose it.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
|
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
443
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 12:04:00 -
[108] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Honestly, have any of you who are against ADS price decrease actually flown one? For one match? Any takers?
At a minimum, ADS need a price decrease, hands down. 120k would be optimal. They need some more work beyond that, but a price decrease at least means I can fly one without worrying about having to go 2-3 matches to replace it should I lose it very fast.
fixed, but 150k to prevent ADS QQ
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
|
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois
Maphia Clan Corporation
169
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 12:44:00 -
[109] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly.
Basic dropship 45k
Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted)
Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut.
Look at it in another way: Assault dropships price is FINE, Tanks price is way too low.
Otherwise why would people spam MLT tanks in every single f***** game?
MLT tank + MLT suit = a lot of kills and potentially little to none ISK loss.
MLT tank price GåÆ 250,000 ISK
BSC tank price GåÆ 350,000 ISK
MLT dropship price GåÆ 150,000 ISK
BSC dropship price GåÆ 200,000 ISK
BSC assault dropship price GåÆ 300,000 ISK
of course all the gear/weaponry should receive a massive ISK cost raise...
If you are an hacker, a cheater o a glitcher, you deserve death. In real life.
|
Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
185
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 13:22:00 -
[110] - Quote
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly.
Basic dropship 45k
Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted)
Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Look at it in another way: Assault dropships price is FINE, Tanks price is way too low. Otherwise why would people spam MLT tanks in every single f***** game? MLT tank + MLT suit = a lot of kills and potentially little to none ISK loss. MLT tank price GåÆ 250,000 ISK BSC tank price GåÆ 350,000 ISK MLT dropship price GåÆ 150,000 ISK BSC dropship price GåÆ 200,000 ISK BSC assault dropship price GåÆ 300,000 ISK of course all the gear/weaponry should receive a massive ISK cost raise...
Not when they fight me most lose those cheap tanks real quick |
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
185
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Posted - 2014.02.18 13:26:00 -
[111] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Honestly, have any of you who are against ADS price decrease actually flown one? For one match? Any takers?
At a minimum, ADS need a price decrease, hands down. 120k would be optimal. They need some more work beyond that, but a price decrease at least means I can fly one without worrying about having to go 2-3 matches to replace it should I lose it.
Yea me and i see no problem with price my tank still costs way more the reason you guys have issues would be that noobs are spamming dmg mods which i heard they nerfing in 1.8 which would mean unless you get hit by a partical cannon you won't die in 2-3 hits |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2856
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 14:03:00 -
[112] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:The-Errorist wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. I do agree that a 7x cost increase is absurd, but only having 20% cost increase for specializations is far too little; specialized vehicles should just be 3x the cost; in the case assault dropship, it should be 135k. Or 150k, either way it needs to go down...
You shouldn't go ISK negative after losing just a single one in a match even if you run free fits after. Each play style should be sustainable. |
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
167
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Posted - 2014.02.18 17:28:00 -
[113] - Quote
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly.
Basic dropship 45k
Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted)
Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Look at it in another way: Assault dropships price is FINE, Tanks price is way too low. Otherwise why would people spam MLT tanks in every single f***** game? MLT tank + MLT suit = a lot of kills and potentially little to none ISK loss. MLT tank price GåÆ 250,000 ISK BSC tank price GåÆ 350,000 ISK MLT dropship price GåÆ 150,000 ISK BSC dropship price GåÆ 200,000 ISK BSC assault dropship price GåÆ 300,000 ISK of course all the gear/weaponry should receive a massive ISK cost raise...
Do you fly? Cause basic DS are meant to be lost, why would the hulls cost 200k? Are you smoking crack?! My basics after fitting cost 130k, which is an acceptable asset to lose.
FAME
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Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1160
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Posted - 2014.02.18 19:09:00 -
[114] - Quote
Adelia Lafayette wrote:I need to just stop skilling into the assault dropship. You would think I would of learned by now.
I actually got small missile turret operation 1 and dropship command 1 in hopes of getting back my Python, but I'm glad that I haven't dumped even more SP for advanced small missiles and a few levels in both assault dropship skills.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1160
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Posted - 2014.02.18 19:23:00 -
[115] - Quote
Skihids wrote:NK Scout wrote:The-Errorist wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. I do agree that a 7x cost increase is absurd, but only having 20% cost increase for specializations is far too little; specialized vehicles should just be 3x the cost; in the case assault dropship, it should be 135k. Or 150k, either way it needs to go down... You shouldn't go ISK negative after losing just a single one in a match even if you run free fits after. Each play style should be sustainable. I'm running all STD modules on a STD hull and the only thing I splurge on is an ADV turret. That's the equivalent of you running a STD racal suit with STD mods and a GEK. Would you expect to go negative after losing just one of those per match? I thought CCP was lowering the cost of hulls and putting the cost into modules, but the ADS hull costs 2-3 times my modules which makes it impossible to make a cost efficient fitting. There is no incentive to make fitting tradeoffs. You may as well proto every module you can because it's only a marginal cost increase for a significant bump in survivability. If you need to survive an entire match you load out to be invincible each and every match. That frustrates and angers AV which perpetuates the cries of OP/nerf. If vehicles are to be killable, they need to be affordable. Not fully loaded, jewel encrusted ones, but certainly ones running a mix of STD and ADV modules.
Reminds me of pre-1.7 with tanks. There was no cost-efficient fit. Because they were so expensive, you basically had to risk even more ISK to get that extra survivability. Level 5 mods were definitely worth the SP investment and anything less than that ensured you a rather swift death.
Now with 1.7, CCP when to the other side of the balance spectrum where basic and militia are just as effective while complex is only marginally better, which creates the whole problem of MLT tank spam which infantry is crying so hard about (and I don't condemn them for crying either). Now you have all of these cheap 70k ISK tanks that rival the firepower of a 500k ISK tank. And these "free" tanks can bring down dropships and ADS that cost way more than them with ease.
I've ran a few ambush matches with a militia-fit Soma and I must say, I'm disgusted. I can afford to lose one Soma and still place among the top three with a considerable profit at the end of the match. And because it's so effective, I could usually go on an infantry murder rampage before I finally get popped. But by then I already racked up the kills necessary to win and place among the top three to earn a considerable profit.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
185
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Posted - 2014.02.19 11:33:00 -
[116] - Quote
To be honest most to all mlt tanks are no match for my 680k isk tank and i've taken on more than 1 at a time so really mlt tanks ain't as bad as some say granted still op just not vs an actual tank fit |
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
171
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Posted - 2014.02.19 14:54:00 -
[117] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:To be honest most to all mlt tanks are no match for my 680k isk tank and i've taken on more than 1 at a time so really mlt tanks ain't as bad as some say granted still op just not vs an actual tank fit
This issue is more about the damage potential curve though. Any rail is at a constant advantage against any DS. When against tanks the mlt rail fits don't begin losing efficiency against targets until after they are midrange sp investment and higher tier tanks.
For example, no entry level DS can destroy any vehicle unless it has a second clone doing the work, and even then it is very challenging with mlt or std turrets that just don't pack enough punch. You need to skill up to be a great to mid and high level tiers.
FAME
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
514
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Posted - 2014.02.19 18:51:00 -
[118] - Quote
Cut the price or give them a break, was flying dropships all day yesterday, and while I can survive a redline railgun (sometimes) I can't get anywhere near the battlefield to do much of anything, if I had a team I would have enough time to make a quick drop or pickup but rarely can I deal any kind of damage before I have to take off, not to mention the fact that hit detection is so broken I can't tell where I'm getting hit from, either that or our own redline railgun installations are bugged and can hit me from across the map even though we're on the same team in a pub match
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Dustbunny Durrr
ReD or DeaD
115
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Posted - 2014.02.19 20:45:00 -
[119] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I agree the cost differential on a lot of items in Dust is criminal. The Commando is another example.
A LOT of items need to be revisited.
IIRC CCP mentioned suits would cost the same across classes- ie: the commando will be in line with other advanced suit costs such as the scout and logi. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9527
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Posted - 2014.02.23 09:17:00 -
[120] - Quote
Still insane
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
773
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Posted - 2014.02.23 09:22:00 -
[121] - Quote
Assault dropship VS Assault dropship fights are the most pathetic spectacle I have ever witnessed in a video game. Neither side can do enough damage. You hover about in the air pointing noses at one another like OAP`s ballroom dancing.
This game is just one big laughing stock.
Join our public channel - A great place to hang out / find squads.
ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
814
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Posted - 2014.02.23 20:17:00 -
[122] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Assault dropship VS Assault dropship fights are the most pathetic spectacle I have ever witnessed in a video game. Neither side can do enough damage. You hover about in the air pointing noses at one another like OAP`s ballroom dancing.
This game is just one big laughing stock.
Me and my gunner's have shot down quite a few, pythons are harder but we have shot a few down. We mostly pop incubi. |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate
Dark Taboo
184
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Posted - 2014.02.23 21:29:00 -
[123] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Well they never die though. They can be tanked pretty well and can hide behind the altitude ceiling, so in effect they have a built-in redline capability - to me that should cost money. Edit: and they are much harder for infantry to hide from than from tanks.
I disagree with that statement. Check out judge's video for a counter arguement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsxU9JyUfUA&feature=c4-overview&list=UUy11xToip47aIW0M9TSOKrQ |
GRIM GEAR
The Enclave Syndicate
Dark Taboo
190
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Posted - 2014.02.23 22:36:00 -
[124] - Quote
I spawned into the start of an ambush yesterday to have my 200k suit get killed in three shots by an assault drop ship. Swings and round abouts tough **** eh!
One day you will wake up and realize that time waits for no one.
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Derpty Derp
It's All Gone Derp
32
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Posted - 2014.02.23 22:47:00 -
[125] - Quote
straya fox wrote:NK Scout wrote:straya fox wrote:Look champ 'proto' when used in relation to vehicles means modules and weapons.
If you want the power then f*cking pay for it, or get on the ground and risk your KDR like everyone else. Show me on the clone where the assault dropship touched you. It's not the dropship, the point of my discussion is when rail tanks are nerfed there will be nothing left to take them out. so why do they deserve a price reduction?
As both a proto forge gunner and ads pilot all I can smell here is bullshit... I don't even have damage mods and I can solo a friggin ads, them things is squishy... Bring in a swarmer or another forger and suddenly you've got a dropship graveyard piling up.
If you can't take a dropship without a redlining rail tank, then you sir need to go back to the training grounds. |
Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
761
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Posted - 2014.02.23 22:49:00 -
[126] - Quote
Tough, check my sig on reasons why. It costs me around 270k isk to Proto my Proto, sounds like the Assault DS needs to go up in price. 
LogiGod earns his pips
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9536
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Posted - 2014.02.23 23:18:00 -
[127] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Tough, check my sig on reasons why. It costs me around 270k isk to Proto my Proto, sounds like the Assault DS needs to go up in price.
Proto is not meant to be sustainable, you can use standard and advanced to save money easily. Assault dropships only have standard tier, there is no cheap option; even an assault dropship just bought with to modification costs more than an average skirmish payout.
Your argument is downright silly.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
1790
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Posted - 2014.02.23 23:34:00 -
[128] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price.
Agreed, but even then, your cost suggestion is a bit steep.
70k for the base ship
120 for the whole fit.
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
1791
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Posted - 2014.02.23 23:40:00 -
[129] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:straya fox wrote:NK Scout wrote:straya fox wrote:Look champ 'proto' when used in relation to vehicles means modules and weapons.
If you want the power then f*cking pay for it, or get on the ground and risk your KDR like everyone else. Show me on the clone where the assault dropship touched you. It's not the dropship, the point of my discussion is when rail tanks are nerfed there will be nothing left to take them out. so why do they deserve a price reduction? As both a proto forge gunner and ads pilot all I can smell here is bullshit... I don't even have damage mods and I can solo a friggin ads, them things is squishy... Bring in a swarmer or another forger and suddenly you've got a dropship graveyard piling up. If you can't take a dropship without a redlining rail tank, then you sir need to go back to the training grounds.
Or get a buddy.
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Seeth Mensch
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
143
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Posted - 2014.02.27 05:05:00 -
[130] - Quote
Adelia Lafayette wrote:I need to just stop skilling into the assault dropship. You would think I would of learned by now.
Sob...I can't stop, either....
My name is Seeth Mensch, and I am an addict.
Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
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Seeth Mensch
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
143
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Posted - 2014.02.27 05:09:00 -
[131] - Quote
I think that the price is too steep as well. I think (given things as they are now) that a fully equipped DS should cost around 200-250k for a support and 250-300 for an ADS.
Though I can manage that for a support out of the Loyalty store, I still pour my SP into vehicles just in order to fly a little longer. And my return is never worth the risk; only the love of flying around keeps me up.
Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
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Vilaskis Shalashev
LUX AETERNA INT
RUST415
163
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Posted - 2014.03.02 18:51:00 -
[132] - Quote
Yes! Cool idea men! I LIKE DROPSHIP! |
The-Errorist
521
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Posted - 2014.03.02 19:14:00 -
[133] - Quote
Specializations in general gets 2 bonuses in addition to being different from the basic version. For dropsuits they should be 20% more expensive.
Infantry are more disposable than vehicles, so vehicles would be alive longer to benefit from whatever bonuses they have. For that reason, I think vehicle specializations should be at least 30% more expensive for LAV, and 40% more expensive for dropships & tanks. |
Heavenly Daughter
the Aurum Grinder and Company
328
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Posted - 2014.03.03 19:36:00 -
[134] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price.
120K, not a chance, my protosuits can hit that much.
The Organ Grinder & Co. EVE
Heavenly Daughter-Merc Records
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Piercing Serenity
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
567
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:22:00 -
[135] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:straya fox wrote:Fair enough guys you have convinced me, make them cheaper, but there has to be a counter besides a rail tank. If AV is not buffed then things are going to be in a terrible state.
I have knocked off a few with my forge gun but it's hardly reliable against a good pilot with a 2.5- 3 sec charge time. These kills are mostly guys that don't move after the first hit, who knows why not.
I just got my back up a bit because the sentiments you guys were putting across were very similar to pre 1.7 tank threads and look what happened.
Any way thanks for the discussion. i'm out. Many dropship pilots agree with you, myself included. Light av should be buffed a bit, though it should take at least two swarms to bring down a proto fit dropship or else dropships would just be really expensive suits. I wouldn't mind giving the forge gun less of a charge up time but I have seen some talented forge gunners fight off dropships in 1.7. I have great respect for forge gunners because they need as much skill as a dropship pilot to do their job. Unlike rail tanks. I can understand your concerns for assault dropships going the way of the tank. Let me reassure you, good assault dropship pilots have spent way to much time getting good at flying to make it into an op FOTM. Dropships are challenging and that's fun, without a challenge it would be stale. It takes far too much sp to be a FOTM anyway because you need at least 5mil skill points to be effective as an assault dropship pilot, something every ace pilot is proud of. Assault dropship spam won't happen, and would be hilarious to watch if rookies tried. To become proficient at flying you have to spend a couple months flying and getting shot down. I have flown in dropship squadrons and it is chaos, dropships crash into each other all the time, redline rails make short work of them and av makes collisions happen all the time. The squadrons I flew with contained some of the best pilots I know on dust and it was very hard to keep everything coordinated. If you want to fly in a squadron you need 6 months minimum of flight time plus a few weeks of flying with another dropship before you even consider becoming a squadron pilot. ADS spam is only for very experienced pilots and even then its very easily countered, trust me I know. Anyway glad you can see where we are coming from, have a good night, come fly with us sometime and see what we are talking about. (Also I'm starting to realize how backwards the dropship world is compared to the rest of dust)
Here's the only problem I'm seeing:
Right now the tanking situation is so imbalanced because one tanker requires many more than one AV player to truly deny the tanker any points/tactical positions. That problem is compounded by the fact that if someone skilled into proto AV as a non-heavy - by that I mean this player has all of the relevant levels in proto swarms, AV nades, Equipment, etc - that player would make virtually zero ISK. I have never flown an assault dropship, so my assumption should be taken as just that - but that proto swarm AV player who has dedicated all of his SP to be a vehicle counter would be paid less than drop suit pilots for trying to fulfill his role since there is no reward for "pushing a tank back".
If drop ships require more than one person to shut them down, and they are changed in a way that makes them more efficient to fly (whatever that may be), then we will have a similar situation. One of the roles specifically designed to counter dropships - in this case a non-heavy infantry player - will not be enough. Moreover, even if that infantry player does manage to stop the dropship, he gets no ISK or WP for anything unless it dies, which is even more rare.
DUST 514 BETA VET
16.2M Lifetime SP
SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
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jaksol returns
highland marines
IMMORTAL REGIME
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:28:00 -
[136] - Quote
the assault cost so much because it can be so much more effective then a plain one iv been killed in 3 hit buy one in my heavy suit iv had my tanks kill because a assault sat on top on me and just blasted away (and I only use non milita tanks) while the dropship cost more now then it shud once ccp fixs tank prices you shud have no more problem |
General12912
Gallente Marine Corps
73
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Posted - 2014.03.03 22:21:00 -
[137] - Quote
i agree. they are deadly in the hands of the right pilot though. im for reducing the price, but they still should be more expensive than a regular dropship.
Assault Gk.0
Gallente Federation Patriot
General of the Gallente Marine Corps. Look us up if you want to join.
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Racro 01 Arifistan
501st Knights of Leanbox
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
183
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Posted - 2014.03.03 23:38:00 -
[138] - Quote
if assault dropships were cheap we would have aerial taks with xt missiles every where. and the reason they are more expensive is to keep them from being unspammable. i mean dropships get around MUCH faster than tanks and maybe LAV's are unhindered by terrain and are kept at bay by forges and railguns (a littler to well) so if these things were ridiculsy cheap chances of getting form point A to B without being attacked by an assault DS with xt missile would be nigh. |
Pvt Numnutz
R 0 N 1 N
843
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Posted - 2014.03.04 00:42:00 -
[139] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:if assault dropships were cheap we would have aerial taks with xt missiles every where. and the reason they are more expensive is to keep them from being unspammable. i mean dropships get around MUCH faster than tanks and maybe LAV's are unhindered by terrain and are kept at bay by forges and railguns (a littler to well) so if these things were ridiculsy cheap chances of getting form point A to B without being attacked by an assault DS with xt missile would be nigh.
Yeah they shouldn't be as cheap as milita tanks. But what about a complex fit gunnlogi? I don't have my turrets yet by for complex mods it only runs me 223k. That's still 100k cheaper than my assault dropships chassis with NOTHING ON IT. Let's put a proto rail turret on the gunnlogi and we get something like 450k for complex mods and a proto turret. 300k less than an assault dropship with a similar fit. Only the rail tank can destroy anything in about a clip and can sit in the redline and kill. So why shouldn't the assault dropships chassis cost 250k? That's one game to get the chassis with no mods or guns. Cheap? An assault dropship pilot would say yes, a grunt would say no. |
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
General Tso's Alliance
4681
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:49:00 -
[140] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:if assault dropships were cheap we would have aerial taks with xt missiles every where. and the reason they are more expensive is to keep them from being unspammable. i mean dropships get around MUCH faster than tanks and maybe LAV's are unhindered by terrain and are kept at bay by forges and railguns (a littler to well) so if these things were ridiculsy cheap chances of getting form point A to B without being attacked by an assault DS with xt missile would be nigh. Yeah they shouldn't be as cheap as milita tanks. But what about a complex fit gunnlogi? I don't have my turrets yet by for complex mods it only runs me 223k. That's still 100k cheaper than my assault dropships chassis with NOTHING ON IT. Let's put a proto rail turret on the gunnlogi and we get something like 450k for complex mods and a proto turret. 300k less than an assault dropship with a similar fit. Only the rail tank can destroy anything in about a clip and can sit in the redline and kill. So why shouldn't the assault dropships chassis cost 250k? That's one game to get the chassis with no mods or guns. Cheap? An assault dropship pilot would say yes, a grunt would say no.
Yes, exactly.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2990
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 03:51:00 -
[141] - Quote
The ADS will never be a FoTM.
You have to dedicate a huge chunk of SP to buy and fit one, and then you have to send a few weeks learning to fly.
All during that time you will be buying many ships to replace those you crash and those shot out from under you. |
Pvt Numnutz
R 0 N 1 N
846
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Posted - 2014.03.04 04:47:00 -
[142] - Quote
Skihids wrote:The ADS will never be a FoTM.
You have to dedicate a huge chunk of SP to buy and fit one, and then you have to send a few weeks learning to fly.
All during that time you will be buying many ships to replace those you crash and those shot out from under you.
Yep because it takes at least a month to skill into and learn how to fly at a basic level |
Adelia Lafayette
Science For Death
720
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Posted - 2014.03.04 04:50:00 -
[143] - Quote
hey look this thread is still around. Still +1. This and rail tanks are the reason I don't pull out my assault dropships anymore
Assault dropship gets blown up....
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"...
..."I'm back"
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
1012
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 09:19:00 -
[144] - Quote
There is a very simple solution to calculating what an ADS (or any vehicle) should cost. Total up the ISK value of all suits and vehicles killed by ADSs since 1.7. Divide that by the number of ADSs destroyed since 1.7. That is what they should cost. I don't know if that number would be higher, or lower than what the current price is, but this is a reasonable metric for calculating ISK-efficiency. If ADSs aren't destroying an average of roughly 500k ish per death than the price should come down. I suspect they're actually dealing out a lot more pain to the enemy than that though (but I honestly don't know).
Best PvE idea ever!
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bamboo x
Eternal Beings
Proficiency V.
118
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 10:32:00 -
[145] - Quote
The amount of ignorance in this thread about being anti-dropships is lowering my brain cell count.
If you don't suck at dust dropships are currently not a threat to anything.
It's not just God mode Rail tanks sitting on the hill shooting down any vehicle that's called in before it touches the ground, it's also any jackass manning an installation or sitting on a high place (which he ironically couldn't get to without a dropship) with a forge gun, not even letting the Assault dropship get close enough to kill infantry. What's worse is the only small turret that's worth a **** is the missle turret.
One of the members of my corp was so frustrated about being a dropship pilot, that when we lost our district he quit the corp.
When I see an ADS actually getting kills I'm not afraid and angry at them, I respect them because they wouldn't even be able to stay in the air without the support of their team.
bamboo x (Federation Specialist Duvolle Assault Rifle) you
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
1076
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 10:46:00 -
[146] - Quote
Well, while I wouldn't mind the price of assault dropships to be lowered, it's there as a spam deterrent. The real problem are tanks ATM. They are too cheap; once they reach their old price points, tanks spam will be somewhat resolved.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
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maka rax
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
20
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Posted - 2014.03.09 21:13:00 -
[147] - Quote
I could buy a rifter for less than 300k in Eve. ADS may be a bit expensive for how fragile they are. |
The-Errorist
553
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 21:18:00 -
[148] - Quote
maka rax wrote:I could buy a rifter for less than 300k in Eve. ADS may be a bit expensive for how fragile they are.
And the ADS is also smaller with no speed bonus. |
Dunce Masterson
Savage Bullet
40
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:59:00 -
[149] - Quote
the assault dropships should cost 75,000 isk why? because thats how much you need to spend to shoot one down your self.
I could give you 10 reason why the Dust team cant get the Amarr tank style right but they are all out of care.
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Charlotte O'Dell
Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors
2133
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:04:00 -
[150] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price.
same problems as 1.6 tanks.
Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10050
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 02:26:00 -
[151] - Quote
I'm still kinda sorta outraged
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
248
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 13:00:00 -
[152] - Quote
Lost two half mill ADS to RDV yo-yo yesterday. It just went back and forth until an enemy rail tank blew it to hell....in two different games.
DROP THE BASE PRICE OF DROPSHIPS!
I'd like to see the breakdown of vehicle use just to see how little dropships are utilized compared to tanks and jeeps.
DROP THE PRICE!
...or fix the collisions. I can drive a tank off a tower, or roll a jeep down a cliff, but if I so much as graze another dropship in the air we both explode.
...and fix the the RDVs. If a vehicle fails to deploy you should be reimbursed for that price...or allow us to cancel deployments.
...and fix the damage rails can do from across the map....it's stupid that I can't see a ground troop at 150 meters but a rail tanks can target me just fine at 500 meters. Even if I'm right above the tank I can't effectively target it until moving in to 200 or less meters.
...and fix the random glitches that cause you to explode. I was flying on the rings map, low in the city part, turned to face under the large red pipe (under the actual rings) at skirmish bravo. Had a green dot watching me hunt down a red as my shields and armor just vanished at the same speed as it would had I slammed into something at top speed. My squad mate confirmed that absolutely nothing touched my dropship.
We can pickle that.
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lAssassinl Zer0
Company of Marcher Lords
Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 16:26:00 -
[153] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price.
....... NO.
Actually a Well fitted Drophip is INVICIBLE. 8 Players with AV can't take him down. (Hardeners/ booster/ faster than swarms , can simply go away.)
Have you ever see an good assault dropship killed ? Not me.
Vehicules are actually indestructible if not by an another, why a vehicule that AT LEAST take down 10 player or a tank (if bad) should cost same than ONE footsoldier ?
An assault dropship acutally kill at least 10/20 players before getting destroyed...oh wait he's not destroyed if a rail tank don't shoot it. |
lAssassinl Zer0
Company of Marcher Lords
Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 16:29:00 -
[154] - Quote
But oyu're right after all.
Let's go :
Let's make tanks free.
Assault Dropships for 200isk
Proto suits free.
Proto wepaons 20 ISK
.....Go to bed.
An assault dropships acutally wipe out the entire team with a single hardener.
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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
248
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:38:00 -
[155] - Quote
lAssassinl Zer0 wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price. ....... NO. Actually a Well fitted Drophip is INVICIBLE. 8 Players with AV can't take him down. (Hardeners/ booster/ faster than swarms , can simply go away.) Have you ever see an good assault dropship killed ? Not me. Vehicules are actually indestructible if not by an another, why a vehicule that AT LEAST take down 10 player or a tank (if bad) should cost same than ONE footsoldier ? An assault dropship acutally kill at least 10/20 players before getting destroyed...oh wait he's not destroyed if a rail tank don't shoot it.
You are clearly an insane person. I don't want to engage you directly, as you are insane, but I feel it necessary that you are aware of this.
We can pickle that.
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
3088
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 20:04:00 -
[156] - Quote
CCP wanted to allow vehicles to attack in "waves of opportunity" with hardeners.
The idea was they could tank damage for a short time before having to win or retreat. Only that's not the way it works for the dropship.
What dual armor hardeners do for the Incubus is allow it the "opportunity" to attempt a hover to engage the enemy. If takes a single hit from a large rail it has 1/4 second to activate its afterburner and run away at top speed. If the pilot had both hardeners active, is quick on the throttle, and choses an escape route perpendicular to the threat he stands a good chance of getting away with his life. That's his "wave of opportunity".
I'm no longer a Python pilot in this build, but my understanding is that they don't even have that much of an opportunity and must keep up to speed at all times.
With Sicas being available to all for 70k and zero SP, bowl maps, and full auto large rail turrets the ADS is pretty much an expensive skeet target. |
GVGMODE
WorstPlayersEver
144
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 20:09:00 -
[157] - Quote
NO
I don't see why their price should be cut...
My tanks are around 500K ISK and I am not asking for its price to be decreased given that jihad LAVs can destroy it at 0 ISK with BPOs or ~20K ISK without them.
Pilot: (Tanks / Assault Dropships)
Skype: GVGMODE
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darkiller240
WarRavens
League of Infamy
604
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 20:11:00 -
[158] - Quote
GVGMODE wrote:NO
I don't see why their price should be cut...
My tanks are around 500K ISK and I am not asking for its price to be decreased given that jihad LAVs can destroy it at 0 ISK with BPOs or ~20K ISK without them.
Noob alert !
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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The-Errorist
590
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:29:00 -
[159] - Quote
If CCP did the same thing for tanks, a 7x multiplier for specializations, having a enforcer would cost 682.5k, and a scout lav would cost 210k, and a logistics dropship would cost 323k. CCP really needs to lower the cost of specialized vehicles. |
Marcus Stormfire
G.R.A.V.E
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 02:35:00 -
[160] - Quote
maka rax wrote:I could buy a rifter for less than 300k in Eve. ADS may be a bit expensive for how fragile they are.
And that rifter would cover the sky on the maps and shred everything. as well as warp scramble a tower. (Those towers are slippery and fast.) :p
I agree that the assault dropship price should be lowered a bit however a balance must be found for them to remain pricey enough to avoid spammage. And for the Love of creation make the assault ship small blaster worth something. I would love to do Ariel strafe runs against stuff and pretend I am actually good at hitting anything.
-Marcus |
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SGTFunyoun THEFIRST
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion
64
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 03:15:00 -
[161] - Quote
+1 please.
Never steal SGT Funyoun's Jingle Truck... or I will blow you up in it... and eat your blueberry flavored protobear soul.
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
289
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 06:07:00 -
[162] - Quote
Large rail guns now have 300m range...
And hardeners got nerfed. Soooo ADS V forge is going to be a little more sketchy.
FAME
Click for Vehicle Support
Click for Recruitment
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Sam Booty
Valor Coalition
Red Whines.
62
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Posted - 2014.03.28 10:29:00 -
[163] - Quote
Limit the amount of dropships to 1 per team in all matches. This would help reduce lag.
2 Tanks and 1 drophsip should be the limit in all matches.
I don't want 1.7 to happen again.
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maka rax
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
29
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Posted - 2014.03.28 14:28:00 -
[164] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Large rail guns now have 300m range...
And hardeners got nerfed. Soooo ADS V forge is going to be a little more sketchy.
Really? Wow CCP...you really porked the patch notes. |
The-Errorist
595
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:16:00 -
[165] - Quote
maka rax wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Large rail guns now have 300m range...
And hardeners got nerfed. Soooo ADS V forge is going to be a little more sketchy. Really? Wow CCP...you really porked the patch notes.
These changes where post patch, they were from the recent server side hotfix that happened today and yesterday.
Since hardeners were the major thing keeping dropships alive, assault dropships really need their price cut more than ever since it is so much easier to take them out now. |
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
289
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:59:00 -
[166] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:maka rax wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Large rail guns now have 300m range...
And hardeners got nerfed. Soooo ADS V forge is going to be a little more sketchy. Really? Wow CCP...you really porked the patch notes. These changes where post patch, they were from the recent server side hotfix that happened today and yesterday. Since hardeners were the major thing keeping dropships alive, assault dropships really need their price cut more than ever since it is so much easier to take them out now.
Yea, I really want to agree. Breach forge or multiple forge, or excellent ishukone user will mean a dead ADS quickly. If you are skilled at flying, then maybe you will have better chances.. Or you can coordinate with ground forces to have better chances.
The thing about these forges is the element of surprise. You don't get much reaction time to being hit by them. As you won't be at the height ceiling all the time, it would be easy enough to get that shot surprise shot in and provide a follow up. Usually I get hit, pop the hardener and fly away. Most times, I am nearly dead or barely make it. In the event that I pop a hardener first, now I can only take three forge hits, two from a breach. If there are any swarms that will further limit my survivability. I don't feel that ADS have a "moment of greater affect" when this hardener is on. Could we get more shields please? Or reduced cost... Something has to give, I can't make isk running a ship unless I am q-synced and rolling with some of the most coordinated squads. This is fine I guess, but it isn't fun to go up against. I wouldn't mind flying solo sometimes, and that might make others feel better too.
FAME
Click for Vehicle Support
Click for Recruitment
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Samantha Hunyz
G.R.A.V.E
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
88
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Posted - 2014.03.28 16:41:00 -
[167] - Quote
The only thing keeping dropships from being the new tanks now is the forge gun and the price.
Yesterday, I noticed a bunch of dropship pilots flying none stop harassing players.
I decidd to pull out a gorgon w/ all its prefits, added mlt 60m plate, mlt after burner, mlt scanner (with no skills into dropships at all). I flew around none stop, an was scared away a few times by forges, but escaped easily, regened, than returned.
After some time I started to get bored, so I started baiting the ADS away from the infanttry by rammin/ attempting to ram them. This would cause them to try to shoot me down none stop (usually fail). Id escape and regen and return. Ive even learned a safer way to crash them without causing catastrophic damage to myself. This method does not reward me the kills unfortunately.
I lost only 2 dropships yesterday to forges, about 4 from ramming and taking out other dropships. Only 1 to an ADS actually shooting me down. The best method for taking down an ADS is a mlt dropship.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Pvt Numnutz
R 0 N 1 N
1046
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Posted - 2014.03.28 20:12:00 -
[168] - Quote
Samantha Hunyz wrote:The only thing keeping dropships from being the new tanks now is the forge gun and the price.
Yesterday, I noticed a bunch of dropship pilots flying none stop harassing players.
I decidd to pull out a gorgon w/ all its prefits, added mlt 60m plate, mlt after burner, mlt scanner (with no skills into dropships at all). I flew around none stop, an was scared away a few times by forges, but escaped easily, regened, than returned.
After some time I started to get bored, so I started baiting the ADS away from the infanttry by rammin/ attempting to ram them. This would cause them to try to shoot me down none stop (usually fail). Id escape and regen and return. Ive even learned a safer way to crash them without causing catastrophic damage to myself. This method does not reward me the kills unfortunately.
I lost only 2 dropships yesterday to forges, about 4 from ramming and taking out other dropships. Only 1 to an ADS actually shooting me down. The best method for taking down an ADS is a mlt dropship.
Yesterday I kept 2 out of 3 assault dropships busy in my adv caldari scout suit. I love inexperienced pilots. Anyway this one incubis was strafing away and I figured out his flying pattern so I drew him over towards his other python friend, they didn't see each other and the python hit the incubis then hit a rock, I then finished it with my magsec.
Mlt dropships are the scrubs way to downing a dropship. If they are being spammed it is very easy to make them crash into each other, especially the ones who are not very experienced pilots.
Oh and in this same game I shot down an incubis with a missile tank. Rail and missile tanks are perfectly viable, you just can pt sit in the redline like a b-ítch anymore.
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SGTFunyoun THEFIRST
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion
66
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:18:00 -
[169] - Quote
I say, either make ADS less expensive... or make them tougher, those are the only two options I can see.
Never steal SGT Funyoun's Jingle Truck... or I will blow you up in it... and eat your blueberry flavored protobear soul.
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Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San
Dirt Nap Squad.
401
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Posted - 2014.03.28 20:37:00 -
[170] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price.
this is true ... but 70k for a tank is also stupid compared to a suit or even a weapon.
Just read the damn thread
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SGTFunyoun THEFIRST
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion
67
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Posted - 2014.03.28 21:10:00 -
[171] - Quote
Xaviah Reaper wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price. this is true ... but 70k for a tank is also stupid compared to a suit or even a weapon.
Seriously.
Never steal SGT Funyoun's Jingle Truck... or I will blow you up in it... and eat your blueberry flavored protobear soul.
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Kaminoikari
DROID EXILES
General Tso's Alliance
51
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:58:00 -
[172] - Quote
I can't believe I am only getting to this thread now. I have been flying since Chromosome. I remember it all. Dropships have never really had a buff. And you can't really count the ADS as a buff due to the sacrifice of eHP and PG/CPU for maneuverability and a pilot gun. I don't think a lot of the people here making comments have flown or tried to fly an ADS. They take work and skill to keep afloat and forgeguns/swarms with their ridiculous knockback keeps them detained fairly easily. Even with the railgun tank nerf, they still have no drop off. The small railgun turret (which I have seen for myself) has a damage dropoff. Why doesn't the large?
Anyways, to the point: my ADS costs 500k to run with 1 turret and all complex modules. With the armor hardener nerf, FGs are chipping my armor even harder and rail tanks just rip it apart. When I fight forgefunners, the only counter I have to them is pulling a Battlefield Bad Company/3/4 Apache maneuver and spin around them nearly vertically. That tactic in itself it entirely negated by a single swarm or rail tank.
I fail to see you people who claim the ADS should remain as it costs when losing one sends me red. The ADS with its ~300k hull is 80% of the cost. The XT-1 missile turret is 10% and the modules are that last 10&. As a pilot since closed beta I find it hard to scrape in money. I've pretty much been begging the rich for handouts because I can't keep up with the cost. (All these people with too much money and nothing to spend it on need to spend it somewhere, right?). I am completely in favor of reducing the price to ~150k. That would allow us to run into a match with ~300k fits and allow it to be more sustainable (in theory). Plus if ***** pilots tried spamming the ADS me and all the other actual pilots would be having field days. |
SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
57
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:02:00 -
[173] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Well they never die though. They can be tanked pretty well and can hide behind the altitude ceiling, so in effect they have a built-in redline capability - to me that should cost money. Edit: and they are much harder for infantry to hide from than from tanks. This is true. Currently the Rail tanks are the only thing keeping them in line.
Or when the forge guns actually fire
Favoring High Latency Is Sh*t
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
57
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:04:00 -
[174] - Quote
Kaminoikari wrote:I can't believe I am only getting to this thread now. I have been flying since Chromosome. I remember it all. Dropships have never really had a buff. And you can't really count the ADS as a buff due to the sacrifice of eHP and PG/CPU for maneuverability and a pilot gun. I don't think a lot of the people here making comments have flown or tried to fly an ADS. They take work and skill to keep afloat and forgeguns/swarms with their ridiculous knockback keeps them detained fairly easily. Even with the railgun tank nerf, they still have no drop off. The small railgun turret (which I have seen for myself) has a damage dropoff. Why doesn't the large?
Anyways, to the point: my ADS costs 500k to run with 1 turret and all complex modules. With the armor hardener nerf, FGs are chipping my armor even harder and rail tanks just rip it apart. When I fight forgefunners, the only counter I have to them is pulling a Battlefield Bad Company/3/4 Apache maneuver and spin around them nearly vertically. That tactic in itself it entirely negated by a single swarm or rail tank.
I fail to see you people who claim the ADS should remain as it costs when losing one sends me red. The ADS with its ~300k hull is 80% of the cost. The XT-1 missile turret is 10% and the modules are that last 10&. As a pilot since closed beta I find it hard to scrape in money. I've pretty much been begging the rich for handouts because I can't keep up with the cost. (All these people with too much money and nothing to spend it on need to spend it somewhere, right?). I am completely in favor of reducing the price to ~150k. That would allow us to run into a match with ~300k fits and allow it to be more sustainable (in theory). Plus if ***** pilots tried spamming the ADS me and all the other actual pilots would be having field days.
I have flown dropships and understand the issue. before the vehicle respec it would cost me upwards of 800k to outfit my python and i was reluctant to use it at that point. i think the other possible solution is to bring tanks up to the point of dropships
Favoring High Latency Is Sh*t
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The-Errorist
613
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Posted - 2014.04.03 11:57:00 -
[175] - Quote
Current assault dropship prices would only make sense if they didn't lose their slots from standard. |
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Lokun Listamenn
307
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Posted - 2014.04.03 15:03:00 -
[176] - Quote
Kaminoikari wrote:I can't believe I am only getting to this thread now. I have been flying since Chromosome. I remember it all. Dropships have never really had a buff. And you can't really count the ADS as a buff due to the sacrifice of eHP and PG/CPU for maneuverability and a pilot gun. I don't think a lot of the people here making comments have flown or tried to fly an ADS. They take work and skill to keep afloat and forgeguns/swarms with their ridiculous knockback keeps them detained fairly easily. Even with the railgun tank nerf, they still have no drop off. The small railgun turret (which I have seen for myself) has a damage dropoff. Why doesn't the large?
Anyways, to the point: my ADS costs 500k to run with 1 turret and all complex modules. With the armor hardener nerf, FGs are chipping my armor even harder and rail tanks just rip it apart. When I fight forgefunners, the only counter I have to them is pulling a Battlefield Bad Company/3/4 Apache maneuver and spin around them nearly vertically. That tactic in itself it entirely negated by a single swarm or rail tank.
I fail to see you people who claim the ADS should remain as it costs when losing one sends me red. The ADS with its ~300k hull is 80% of the cost. The XT-1 missile turret is 10% and the modules are that last 10&. As a pilot since closed beta I find it hard to scrape in money. I've pretty much been begging the rich for handouts because I can't keep up with the cost. (All these people with too much money and nothing to spend it on need to spend it somewhere, right?). I am completely in favor of reducing the price to ~150k. That would allow us to run into a match with ~300k fits and allow it to be more sustainable (in theory). Plus if ***** pilots tried spamming the ADS me and all the other actual pilots would be having field days.
Excellent point. How about a skill to reduce cost. Or cost is based off how many ADS related skills you have SP sunk into. This would work for tankers too. Great vehicle users want competition, if our dedicated sp choices in turn reduced our vehicle costs, we could maintain that specialty. Instead, I have to run a bunch of ground games to stack isk, so in a way, vehicle users need dual specialization to fully user the vehicle path. I do feel tanking is easier to gain isk in compared to ADS.
Side note to CCP. Are collisions frakking serious?! If an RDV Rick rolls me, then it should ever take serious damage or explode too. And fix the building damage too, I should blow up at full speed hits, but too many little taps have sent me to he'll in a hand basket.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10357
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Posted - 2014.04.09 00:32:00 -
[177] - Quote
Still cray cray
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1967
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Posted - 2014.04.09 00:41:00 -
[178] - Quote
kage, Welcome to New Eden I suppose..............
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9351
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Posted - 2014.04.09 00:49:00 -
[179] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price.
I wouldn't mind that especially if HAV finally got their specific racial skills like ADS do.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10357
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Posted - 2014.04.09 00:53:00 -
[180] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price. I wouldn't mind that especially if HAV finally got their specific racial skills like ADS do.
HAVs are basic (the vehicle equivalent of a basic frame), while an ADS is a specialization (the vehicle equivalent of an assault or logi), so I don't think it would make sense until there are HAV specializations again (like enforcer or marauder).
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9352
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Posted - 2014.04.09 01:00:00 -
[181] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:True Adamance wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price. I wouldn't mind that especially if HAV finally got their specific racial skills like ADS do. HAVs are basic (the vehicle equivalent of a basic frame), while an ADS is a specialization (the vehicle equivalent of an assault or logi), so I don't think it would make sense until there are HAV specializations again (like enforcer or marauder).
Welp then I want to specialist HAV, comparatively then HAV would cost significantly more than ADS rending your point moot.
Comparing a basic Tank to a specialist ADS is pointless. Better to compare the Dropship to a tank since that's a more accurate comparison tier wise.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10373
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Posted - 2014.04.09 01:03:00 -
[182] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:True Adamance wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted) I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase. Right now an assault dropship has over a 7x increase in price compared to a basic dropship. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price. I wouldn't mind that especially if HAV finally got their specific racial skills like ADS do. HAVs are basic (the vehicle equivalent of a basic frame), while an ADS is a specialization (the vehicle equivalent of an assault or logi), so I don't think it would make sense until there are HAV specializations again (like enforcer or marauder). Welp then I want to specialist HAV, comparatively then HAV would cost significantly more than ADS rending your point moot. Comparing a basic Tank to a specialist ADS is pointless. Better to compare the Dropship to a tank since that's a more accurate comparison tier wise.
I don't think a specialist HAV should cost that much more than a regular HAV since the cons should balance out the pros. Its a sidegrade. A specialist HAV in my opinion should cost perhaps 20% more only than a basic tank.
Specialist dropship, or specialist HAV, you should still be able to make a profit.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10373
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Posted - 2014.04.09 23:43:00 -
[183] - Quote
Do it!
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Dauth Jenkins
Ultramarine Corp
463
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Posted - 2014.04.10 04:31:00 -
[184] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Agreed, especially with how easy they can be taken down, and with what is pretty much confirmation of a Swarm buff on the horizon.
+1 for your Sig, lol
-Sincerely
--The Dual Swarm Commando
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Finn Colman
Immortal Guides
1
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Posted - 2014.04.10 20:15:00 -
[185] - Quote
I can tell you one thing for sure. It is not friendly to beginning pilots that they should pay so much. The only way I can even fly is in transport, and for as long as I don't have a group that will take advantage of that I won't be contributing to my team at all. All I can do right now is float around looking pretty. It most certainly isn't easy to aim these things.
The best I can do now is simply annoy some blaster tank until he realizes I'm not even a minor threat. Practicing is costing me so much I hardly ever get to do so. I don't even put modules on my ship, and fit it only with turrets. When I finally get a bead on something, I get hit and have to retreat or i'll go down blazing, assuming I can even stabilize my ship before it crashes into something.
150k ISK would be a good price in my opinion, or otherwise make more variants of the ADS, so that a new pilot can pay for their practice without breaking the bank. Remember it's not just Pro pilots out there. There are of course those of us who want to learn but can't afford to. And in reply to the "Rail tanks are the only defense against them" thing, I have been shot down by a Rail tank ONCE, I can't even tell you how many times I've been killed by a swarm, a forge, or even a large blaster installation. The only way I've found to survive for even just a few seconds longer is to use shield hardeners, and shield boosters, again assuming that I don't get thrown sideways into an environmental hazard (otherwise known as any tangible thing on the map).
Though I can actually use the nose gun for the purpose that is described for it, dogfights. Not that it's common to even see another airborne unit in the first place.
I'll keep trying to learn it regardless of how many times I lose the 360k aircraft. (Python fitted with 3 MLT Missile turrets, 1 MLT shield booster, 1 MLT shield hardener, 1 MLT mobile CRU {i know someone will criticize me for it}, and one Enhanced PG upgrade.) Keep in mind that the cost of the vehicle without anything on it is about 323k ISK, and deploying without modules is just asking to be shot down. I want to applaud everyone who has mastered one of these amazing beasts of warfare, because it is not an easy task at all. |
Pvt Numnutz
R 0 N 1 N
1080
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Posted - 2014.04.10 21:54:00 -
[186] - Quote
Finn it really isn't easy, I have lost hundreds of dropships to get to the level I am at now. If you want to squad with me or other excellent pilots join 1st airborne chat channel. The best pilots in the game hang out there and if they have the time will help you out! |
Finn Colman
Immortal Guides
2
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:26:00 -
[187] - Quote
Yeah, I've pretty well found out that it isn't easy, I knew that going in. Thanks, I'll check it out. |
a brackers
Vanguardian Remnant
11
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:49:00 -
[188] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Finn it really isn't easy, I have lost hundreds of dropships to get to the level I am at now. If you want to squad with me or other excellent pilots join 1st airborne chat channel. The best pilots in the game hang out there and if they have the time will help you out!
Awesome ive been looking for a pilot channel.
I also agree assault dropships are priced well above their worth. Looking through I noticed quite a few comments saying dropships have total dominance. All it takes is someone to bring out a 69k milita rail tank, and they have complete arial denial of the entire map with no risk to their tank. Also, most buildings provide better cover from the air than thry do from tanks, so if a dropship is killing u inside then they are a hell of a good shot. Added to this is the fact that the anti infantry gun is the rocket, so it takes up to 4 shots to kill a heavy. As long as you are spread out and work as a team you are fine.
Now, onto the av. I fit my ship purely for survivability and it is still impossible to survive more than 4 shots from a railgun installation. Added to the fact that the railgun fires 4 shots in 2.7 seconds (3x 0.9 s) I think, and reaction speed with a controller (eye to hand) is at best 0.43 seconds, most dropships can't get very far in the remaining 2.27 seconds. Added to the fact anyone using a adv or proto rail or damage mods will take 3 or 2 or may even take 1, railguns are redicously op compared to dropships as they are designed for av. Forges are ok as it is about 50 50 between my dropship and them when they are well fitted with a proto forge. Swarms definately need love though. I always sit there laughing as proto Swarms fly towards me and I pop a missile straight into the person who fired its head.
I have also listed my other suggestion in this forum :
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=127113&p=4
Proto dropship pilot
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a brackers
Vanguardian Remnant
11
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:50:00 -
[189] - Quote
I lose 1 ship and I lose all profit for the next 3-4 matches
Proto dropship pilot
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
328
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Posted - 2014.04.20 02:22:00 -
[190] - Quote
Bump. Can we atleast try 200 or 250k hulls CCP?
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Heavenly Daughter
the Aurum Grinder and Company
393
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Posted - 2014.04.20 18:27:00 -
[191] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut.
EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price.
HAHA, Thats a good one, My Proto suits can cost more than this.
ROF PMSL
Nobody asked you to train into them, "If you can't stand the heat, BLAH BLAH BLAH".
The Organ Grinder & Co. EVE
Heavenly Daughter-Merc Records
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Finn Colman
Immortal Guides
5
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Posted - 2014.04.20 18:58:00 -
[192] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
HAHA, Thats a good one, My Proto suits can cost more than this.
ROF PMSL
Nobody asked you to train into them, "If you can't stand the heat, BLAH BLAH BLAH".
May I remind you that there are no tiers of vehicles... No proto, no advanced, just basic. If I there were, and I had wanted a proto ADS, I'd pay for a proto. As it stands, we don't have that sort of choice. An ADS is certainly not a dropsuit. As well, may I ask if you are basing the price off of the suit itself, or are you also counting all of the weapons, modules, and equipment?
I also want to point out, that by your logic we really need to drastically up the prices on regular dropships, LAVs, and HAVs. |
wiseguy12
Ancient Legion
21
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Posted - 2014.04.20 19:40:00 -
[193] - Quote
Give tanks a serious price bump and lower the ads price or make an assault tank were the driver gets to shoot and basic tanks require a gunner. That would fix tank spam to an extent. and provide vehicle equality.
W.I.D.O.S. when in doubt orbital strike
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Finn Colman
Immortal Guides
5
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Posted - 2014.04.20 19:46:00 -
[194] - Quote
wiseguy12 wrote:Give tanks a serious price bump and lower the ads price or make an assault tank were the driver gets to shoot and basic tanks require a gunner. That would fix tank spam to an extent. and provide vehicle equality.
This makes sense to me, it's not a brilliant improvement, but it is an improvement. |
Pvt Numnutz
R 0 N 1 N
1109
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Posted - 2014.04.21 01:08:00 -
[195] - Quote
Heavenly Daughter wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut.
EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price.
HAHA, Thats a good one, My Proto suits can cost more than this. ROF PMSL Nobody asked you to train into them, "If you can't stand the heat, BLAH BLAH BLAH".
He is talking about the price for the chassis, not the final cost of the dropship numbnuts. Mine costs 650k-ish right now, this would reduce it to 450k-ish when everything is fitted. |
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
PAND3M0N1UM
Top Men.
344
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Posted - 2014.04.21 03:55:00 -
[196] - Quote
Bump
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11044
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Posted - 2014.06.09 08:57:00 -
[197] - Quote
Still insane
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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The-Errorist
SVER True Blood
734
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Posted - 2014.06.09 11:06:00 -
[198] - Quote
a brackers wrote:I lose 1 ship and I lose all profit for the next 3-4 matches
In comparison, losing one tank only equates to losing profit for 1-2 matches. Current prices right now seem to have been made up by an ADS hater or someone who wants people to suffer.
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
9254
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Posted - 2014.06.09 12:06:00 -
[199] - Quote
I'll agree to a price drop for ADSs.
I firmly believe that if someone spent SP to get into their role, they should be able to use that role when they want to (to a reasonable extent of course).
Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical.
I've run out of stuff to spec into :(
-HAND
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3433
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Posted - 2014.06.09 14:30:00 -
[200] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Heavenly Daughter wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut.
EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price.
HAHA, Thats a good one, My Proto suits can cost more than this. ROF PMSL Nobody asked you to train into them, "If you can't stand the heat, BLAH BLAH BLAH". He is talking about the price for the chassis, not the final cost of the dropship numbnuts. Mine costs 650k-ish right now, this would reduce it to 450k-ish when everything is fitted.
So I just read the whole thread, and I agree that Dropship price should be decreased, but I do wish you'd stop talking about your 650k Dropship as if that were a normal fitting.
I could just as easily say that I could build a 650k fitting (triple particle cannons), but it is absolutely not the typical fit, and is not something that balance should be built around. (The 500k single XT-1 fitting, now that one is absolutely relevant).
BlowoutForCPM
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14413
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Posted - 2014.06.09 14:34:00 -
[201] - Quote
I like ADS price, personally, its tanks that are way too cheap, and MLT vehicles that may as well be free while being very viable
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