DUST Search - Assault dropship costs are insane

Ludvig Enraga wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly.

Basic dropship 45k
Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted

I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price.

An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty.

Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut.

Well they never die though. They can be tanked pretty well and can hide behind the altitude ceiling, so in effect they have a built-in redline capability - to me that should cost money.

Edit: and they are much harder for infantry to hide from than from tanks.


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Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 730	Posted - 2014.02.16 07:13:00 - [1] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Well they never die though. They can be tanked pretty well and can hide behind the altitude ceiling, so in effect they have a built-in redline capability - to me that should cost money. Edit: and they are much harder for infantry to hide from than from tanks. As an assault dropship pilot allow me to correct a few things. They do die, quite often, and not just to rails either but to forge guns and combined swarm launcher efforts. They can be tanked somewhat but not to the degree of a tank, trust me I have max fitting skills For shields and turrets. If you want to fit a tank you have to give up your side turrets, something that I personally won't do. I think the dropships true power lies in its troop carrying capacity and gunner firepower which requires a lot of skill and experience to pull off. Its true dropships can retreat to the flight ceiling, though keep in mind that's just like an infantry or tank player. The dropships typical operating height is 80-100m at 200m you can barley see anything. When a dropship is 200m up its not a threat to ground forces, the most threatening force would be those jumping out of the dropship. So yes we can fly high up, but we loose any sort of effectiveness by running to that altitude. The dropship is the most versatile vehicle in dust, it can transport troops quickly above ground and the assault variant has decent fire power. However it costs far more than a tank, and forge guns are still very much a threat. Prototype rail guns can one shot a python, and they cost a couple hundred thousand less than a prototype fit dropship. Keep in mind that dropship pilots don't get paid much, even if they do their job of transport the points aren't very much. My python usually requires 2-3 games of work to earn back, and I have to be doing well to earn that 230k a game which means flying through heavily contested skies hoping I don't get OHK flying to C. Its very stressful and I have spent well over 300mil isk on dropships. @ the OP, I agree dropships and especially assault dropships should cost less, more than the standard but not more, or much more than a proto fit tank. Every pilot could breath a bit easier and have a little bit of cash in their pockets and a few dropships to fly. Lately I have been restocking 15 of my cheaper dropships at a time. This costs roughly 9.7mil. If I can't make that isk back With 15 dropships then I'm in the red. Unfortunately there were quite a few redline rail tanks one day and I ended up 3mil short, that's 3 or 4 dropships I can't restock. I'm lucky to break even on a good day, I don't want to talk about my bad days....
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 732	Posted - 2014.02.16 08:04:00 - [2] - Quote straya fox wrote: @numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you. No sh!t bro. Every dropship I bring onto the field I expect to loose, I learned that a long time ago. Its probably the only thing that has kept me sane. The difference between a prototype suit and a prototype dropship is this, a basic suit can still be effective with a basic weapon. A python requires atleast adv level equipment just to survive, and you have to survive if you want to make isk, because if you loose one dropship a game you will go bankrupt by the end of the week. My 15 pythons must last me a minimum of 30 games for me to break even and that's if me and my crew are top of the boards every game. They don't have to be as cheap as tanks, but they shouldn't cost so much more. Have you ever tried being a gunner on a python? I fit prototype turrets because when we come in on a run we have little time to get kills and get out, I need as much fire as I can so I'm not sitting in one place for a rail or forge. The gunners I have flown with for months can predict the motion of my dropship and place the shots they need to for us to get out. Blueberry gunners can barley kill 2 guys in the time my gunner's would kill or suppress 5. Adv turrets are still good but for those who are dedicated dropship pilots, that couple percentages make the difference between life and sudden death. From what I have learned, I fly the best dropship I can so there is a better chance of it coming back, even if the chance is very low. If I just fit my pythons with std and adv mods and turrets it would still cost me 400k or up, only it would be shot down a lot easier by av. If one or two of my proto fit pythons come back then they might survive two and then I have paid it off. The better equipment allows me to stay in the fight for 10 more seconds before I have to leave, that's a potential 3 kills, no man left behind, or distraction for my team, potentially more isk which I sorely need. If I'm not in the fight, or doing something useful then I'm making scraps, prototype gear is the only ones that are really effective for dropships. That is if your a dedicated pilot and your dropship is how you make money. Most of my sp is in dropships 7 or 8 mil. So my dropship is my money maker, but its also my isk sink. If it wasn't so much of a sink then I might have one or two dropships extra and can restock my suits without dipping into the money for dropships.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 733	Posted - 2014.02.16 08:26:00 - [3] - Quote straya fox wrote: And that's cool man, but like EVERYONE ELSE if you want to run proto in pubs expect to lose money. I'm sorry that advanced is not good enough for you, take it up with CCP. But don't whine about cost effectiveness in pubs while running a pro to fit out. Well I don't know how to explain it to you any more clearly than I just did But I'll try anyway. Assault dropships are expensive before you fit anything on it, be it milita, std, adv, or pro. In a dust where milita rail tanks and wiki forge guns can OHK you, if your bringing anything less than proto on a python your going to loose a lot of isk, PC especially where av players know how to counter a dropship, FW where you don't make any isk back, or pub matches where most players not involved in PC play where all kinds of sh!t can happen, your going to be scraping by if your lucky, and buddy that's pretty ******* lucky. TL;DR dropships need prototype gear to survive. They need to survive at least one game to make any isk.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 733	Posted - 2014.02.16 08:41:00 - [4] - Quote NK Scout wrote: 2 or 3 games, isk payouts are around 170k My mistake, yeah 170k is my typical pay, 250k when my gunner goes 24 kills but those games are far in between. Usually there is some av to keep us at bay and we walk away with 8-11 kills depending on the av guys skills. I swear its like NPC corps pay us less for calling one down in a battle. Their like "oh you brought that piece of sh!t to fight my battle?! Your pay is getting cut!" Even if we tip the battle by moving hackers around or dropping reinforcements or killing uplinks or destroying turrets or providing overwatch
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 734	Posted - 2014.02.16 09:05:00 - [5] - Quote straya fox wrote: Fair enough guys you have convinced me, make them cheaper, but there has to be a counter besides a rail tank. If AV is not buffed then things are going to be in a terrible state. I have knocked off a few with my forge gun but it's hardly reliable against a good pilot with a 2.5- 3 sec charge time. These kills are mostly guys that don't move after the first hit, who knows why not. I just got my back up a bit because the sentiments you guys were putting across were very similar to pre 1.7 tank threads and look what happened. Any way thanks for the discussion. i'm out. Many dropship pilots agree with you, myself included. Light av should be buffed a bit, though it should take at least two swarms to bring down a proto fit dropship or else dropships would just be really expensive suits. I wouldn't mind giving the forge gun less of a charge up time but I have seen some talented forge gunners fight off dropships in 1.7. I have great respect for forge gunners because they need as much skill as a dropship pilot to do their job. Unlike rail tanks. I can understand your concerns for assault dropships going the way of the tank. Let me reassure you, good assault dropship pilots have spent way to much time getting good at flying to make it into an op FOTM. Dropships are challenging and that's fun, without a challenge it would be stale. It takes far too much sp to be a FOTM anyway because you need at least 5mil skill points to be effective as an assault dropship pilot, something every ace pilot is proud of. Assault dropship spam won't happen, and would be hilarious to watch if rookies tried. To become proficient at flying you have to spend a couple months flying and getting shot down. I have flown in dropship squadrons and it is chaos, dropships crash into each other all the time, redline rails make short work of them and av makes collisions happen all the time. The squadrons I flew with contained some of the best pilots I know on dust and it was very hard to keep everything coordinated. If you want to fly in a squadron you need 6 months minimum of flight time plus a few weeks of flying with another dropship before you even consider becoming a squadron pilot. ADS spam is only for very experienced pilots and even then its very easily countered, trust me I know. Anyway glad you can see where we are coming from, have a good night, come fly with us sometime and see what we are talking about. (Also I'm starting to realize how backwards the dropship world is compared to the rest of dust)
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 734	Posted - 2014.02.16 09:18:00 - [6] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: What do you mean backward? I mean opposite of the normal ideology of dust. Pythons fit proto to survive rather than slay, spam is actually worse than just 3 ADS and is only effective with skilled pilots as opposed to tank spam or cal logies back in the day, dropships fly, they cost a lot in both sp and isk for something that is very fragile. Pretty backwards from your average grunts perspective I dunno maybe I'm just tired....
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 748	Posted - 2014.02.16 21:22:00 - [7] - Quote Cmdr Wolfe wrote: when they first came out it was 1.2 mil isk for a proto assault dropship.. so stop your whinning Those days were horrible. Still prices are high for what we buy.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 749	Posted - 2014.02.17 04:20:00 - [8] - Quote Bethhy wrote: put 6 ADS's in the air and there is no more OP thing in the game... I don't know how they could limit the use more then what they did... I do believe ADS's where on the chopping block with Logistic DS's.. but for some reason they got lobbied to stay.. The cost probably never fully got adjusted with everything else as it was never fully planned to be kept. Okay you don't know how dropships work. If there are 6 in the air they are good pilots. I dare you or anyone else that doesn't know how to fly to try calling in 6 assault dropships and not smack into each other. They kept it because almost every pilot wanted them to stay. I wanted them to stay because of the way they handle, not because of the pilot turret.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 751	Posted - 2014.02.17 07:08:00 - [9] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Cost is fine. 500k for a fully proto-ed ship (mods and turret). That's about 2 good games per ship. If you're losing more than that, even with rail tanks currently (why are you risking an ADS with a redline rail tank on the field anyway?), you're doing it wrong. Where are you getting mods and turrets for so cheap? My full proto fit is 707k and my dropship for one gunner runs me 650k. I want a cost effective dropship like that Dropship pilots typically get paid leas per game than the average player. Not sure why but I have noticed it. For me its 2-3 good games to pay of one of my raptors, sometimes I do get 250k if me and my gunners kill 4 tanks and some infantry but that's a challenge. Why do I risk my python when there is a redline rail on the field, good question. That's most of the games I play honestly. Some maps just aren't good for dropships, some are excellent, but all are good for rail tanks. So on the maps that I can fly I fly, typically the enemy calls down a rail tank in the red and I can't always be watching there. Unlike tanks I can't look independently from the direction I'm moving. So quite frequently I don't know there even is a rail tank in the battle, because 9 times out of 10 they aren't even on the battlefield.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 751	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:51:00 - [10] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: I've been managing to break even recently by taking a minute out of my ADS time to throw down uplinks (I use my M-1 logi BPO as a pilot suit with two sets of advanced uplinks and a rep tool). I put them in high places after calling my ADS if the map has good spots or otherwise just on the ground as I move to a safe zone to call my ADS in. These combined with some kills will often put me in the top 5 for WP and get me 200-250k for an ambush or 300k for a good skirmish match. That's a perfectly good tactic and I know judge does it a lot but I tend not to because blueberries usually abuse them and cost us the game. Though that is one way to earn your money back. I usually fly with someone who can drop uplinks anyway so they usually take care of it.

Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 814	Posted - 2014.02.23 20:17:00 - [11] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Assault dropship VS Assault dropship fights are the most pathetic spectacle I have ever witnessed in a video game. Neither side can do enough damage. You hover about in the air pointing noses at one another like OAP`s ballroom dancing. This game is just one big laughing stock. Me and my gunner's have shot down quite a few, pythons are harder but we have shot a few down. We mostly pop incubi.
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 843	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:42:00 - [12] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: if assault dropships were cheap we would have aerial taks with xt missiles every where. and the reason they are more expensive is to keep them from being unspammable. i mean dropships get around MUCH faster than tanks and maybe LAV's are unhindered by terrain and are kept at bay by forges and railguns (a littler to well) so if these things were ridiculsy cheap chances of getting form point A to B without being attacked by an assault DS with xt missile would be nigh. Yeah they shouldn't be as cheap as milita tanks. But what about a complex fit gunnlogi? I don't have my turrets yet by for complex mods it only runs me 223k. That's still 100k cheaper than my assault dropships chassis with NOTHING ON IT. Let's put a proto rail turret on the gunnlogi and we get something like 450k for complex mods and a proto turret. 300k less than an assault dropship with a similar fit. Only the rail tank can destroy anything in about a clip and can sit in the redline and kill. So why shouldn't the assault dropships chassis cost 250k? That's one game to get the chassis with no mods or guns. Cheap? An assault dropship pilot would say yes, a grunt would say no.
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 846	Posted - 2014.03.04 04:47:00 - [13] - Quote Skihids wrote: The ADS will never be a FoTM. You have to dedicate a huge chunk of SP to buy and fit one, and then you have to send a few weeks learning to fly. All during that time you will be buying many ships to replace those you crash and those shot out from under you. Yep because it takes at least a month to skill into and learn how to fly at a basic level
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1046	Posted - 2014.03.28 20:12:00 - [14] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: The only thing keeping dropships from being the new tanks now is the forge gun and the price. Yesterday, I noticed a bunch of dropship pilots flying none stop harassing players. I decidd to pull out a gorgon w/ all its prefits, added mlt 60m plate, mlt after burner, mlt scanner (with no skills into dropships at all). I flew around none stop, an was scared away a few times by forges, but escaped easily, regened, than returned. After some time I started to get bored, so I started baiting the ADS away from the infanttry by rammin/ attempting to ram them. This would cause them to try to shoot me down none stop (usually fail). Id escape and regen and return. Ive even learned a safer way to crash them without causing catastrophic damage to myself. This method does not reward me the kills unfortunately. I lost only 2 dropships yesterday to forges, about 4 from ramming and taking out other dropships. Only 1 to an ADS actually shooting me down. The best method for taking down an ADS is a mlt dropship. Yesterday I kept 2 out of 3 assault dropships busy in my adv caldari scout suit. I love inexperienced pilots. Anyway this one incubis was strafing away and I figured out his flying pattern so I drew him over towards his other python friend, they didn't see each other and the python hit the incubis then hit a rock, I then finished it with my magsec. Mlt dropships are the scrubs way to downing a dropship. If they are being spammed it is very easy to make them crash into each other, especially the ones who are not very experienced pilots. Oh and in this same game I shot down an incubis with a missile tank. Rail and missile tanks are perfectly viable, you just can pt sit in the redline like a b-ítch anymore.
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1080	Posted - 2014.04.10 21:54:00 - [15] - Quote Finn it really isn't easy, I have lost hundreds of dropships to get to the level I am at now. If you want to squad with me or other excellent pilots join 1st airborne chat channel. The best pilots in the game hang out there and if they have the time will help you out!
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1109	Posted - 2014.04.21 01:08:00 - [16] - Quote Heavenly Daughter wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. EDIT: I think around 120k-150k would be an acceptable base price. HAHA, Thats a good one, My Proto suits can cost more than this. ROF PMSL Nobody asked you to train into them, "If you can't stand the heat, BLAH BLAH BLAH". He is talking about the price for the chassis, not the final cost of the dropship numbnuts. Mine costs 650k-ish right now, this would reduce it to 450k-ish when everything is fitted.