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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4593
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Agreed, especially with how easy they can be taken down, and with what is pretty much confirmation of a Swarm buff on the horizon.
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4593
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:A freshly bought unmodified assault dropship costs about as much as a decently fitted tank (certainly more than a very effective 70k tank). There is no reason why it should be so costly. Basic dropship 45k Assault dropship 323k (costs much more when fully well fitted I believe that specializations for vehicles and dropsuits should be more expensive than their basic counterparts, but it should be like a 20% increase, That's over a 7x increase in price. An assault dropship with only a small turret for the pilot should not be cheaper or cost more than a tank with substantially more HP and firepower capable of ruing the lives of infantry. It is no way ok that being an assault dropship pilot should mean living in poverty. Assault dropship prices need to be severely cut. Well they never die though. They can be tanked pretty well and can hide behind the altitude ceiling, so in effect they have a built-in redline capability - to me that should cost money. Edit: and they are much harder for infantry to hide from than from tanks. I've seen a double-hardened Incubus flown by an expert pilot die to one shot from a Railgun tank stacking Damage Mods.
Also, Railgun tanks can just prop themsleves up on hills, rocks, or any other object and point their turrets straight up in the air, hitting a Dropship even at the flight ceiling of the highest maps.
Swarms and Forges have enough kinetic kick on their shots that even if they don't actually kill you with damage, they can throw you into the ground or nearby obstacles and kill you that way.
They can even fire Swarms at you to bring you close to them, and then call in an LAV and watch the invisible RDV smack you out of the air without you even knowing it's there or being able to avoid it.
Amidst the blue skies
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4595
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:They need to stay expensive in order to prevent spam.
Case and point, tanks. You can spam tanks because they're easy.
Flying an ADS effectively takes quite a bit more skill than people seem to think. It took me at least a week before I could reliably get kills, and I'm still learning even now that I'm pretty dangerous in one. I still can't fight other ADS worth ****.
Amidst the blue skies
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4597
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into.
Amidst the blue skies
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4599
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into. It costs 2 or 3 proto suits, sounds reasonable to me. They are powerful. And tanks cost less? Even after the damage mods and railguns are addressed?
I think you guys need to realize that an ADS isn't the same no-barrier-to-entry vehicle that an HAV is.
Amidst the blue skies
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4600
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Posted - 2014.02.16 06:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think you guys are all seriously over-estimating the defensive stats of Assault Dropships, especially considering that they're going to be buffing Swarm Launchers in 1.8, and probably -finally- addressing the poor, neglected Plasma Cannon.
If they improve Swarms and make the Plasma Cannon into a viable AV weapon, that combined with the new buffs to Commando suits will likely result in a lot more AV being readily available, and Assault Dropships being far more vulnerable.
Now that doesn't concern me too much as long as I don't have to pay as much as I earn in a single match just to use the asset I invested so many skillpoints into. It costs 2 or 3 proto suits, sounds reasonable to me. They are powerful. And tanks cost less? Even after the damage mods and railguns are addressed? I think you guys need to realize that an ADS isn't the same no-barrier-to-entry vehicle that an HAV is. They are un-kill-able by non-heavies infantry. Yes, but that isn't going to remain the case. Like I said, CCP Remnant made a post about a month back where he said they're "unsatisfied with the current state of Light AV vs Vehicles".
As well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. I've so far lost 3 Pythons to some really good AV players luring me down to lower altitude, and then using the kinetic impact of multiple Swarm launchers to throw me into buildings or hills.
Amidst the blue skies
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4601
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
straya fox wrote: So you crashed...
Not quite. I'm not sure if you've noticed how much of a kinetic impulse they've put back on AV weapons, but even if they don't damage you they can throw you around like a ping-pong ball.
It actually makes for a great defensive tactic if you're trying to Forge a Dropship. Two squadmates with Militia Swarms can effectively keep my aim so badly thrown off that I can't shoot either them or the Forge Gunner.
What we need is a buff to the damage output of Light AV, and that includes making the Plasma Cannon actually viable in the role.
The issue is if that is done and the ADS still retains it's excessively high price. If you can be gunned down by anyone and anything on the map and your asset costs more than any of the assets used against you, you'll rapidly see even less of us active outside of full squads in Ambush matches than you do now.
Pvt Numnutz wrote: As an assault dropship pilot allow me to correct a few things. They do die, quite often, and not just to rails either but to forge guns and combined swarm launcher efforts. They can be tanked somewhat but not to the degree of a tank, trust me I have max fitting skills For shields and turrets. If you want to fit a tank you have to give up your side turrets, something that I personally won't do. I think the dropships true power lies in its troop carrying capacity and gunner firepower which requires a lot of skill and experience to pull off.
Its true dropships can retreat to the flight ceiling, though keep in mind that's just like an infantry or tank player. The dropships typical operating height is 80-100m at 200m you can barley see anything. When a dropship is 200m up its not a threat to ground forces, the most threatening force would be those jumping out of the dropship. So yes we can fly high up, but we loose any sort of effectiveness by running to that altitude.
The dropship is the most versatile vehicle in dust, it can transport troops quickly above ground and the assault variant has decent fire power. However it costs far more than a tank, and forge guns are still very much a threat. Prototype rail guns can one shot a python, and they cost a couple hundred thousand less than a prototype fit dropship. Keep in mind that dropship pilots don't get paid much, even if they do their job of transport the points aren't very much. My python usually requires 2-3 games of work to earn back, and I have to be doing well to earn that 230k a game which means flying through heavily contested skies hoping I don't get OHK flying to C. Its very stressful and I have spent well over 300mil isk on dropships.
@ the OP, I agree dropships and especially assault dropships should cost less, more than the standard but not more, or much more than a proto fit tank. Every pilot could breath a bit easier and have a little bit of cash in their pockets and a few dropships to fly. Lately I have been restocking 15 of my cheaper dropships at a time. This costs roughly 9.7mil. If I can't make that isk back With 15 dropships then I'm in the red. Unfortunately there were quite a few redline rail tanks one day and I ended up 3mil short, that's 3 or 4 dropships I can't restock. I'm lucky to break even on a good day, I don't want to talk about my bad days....
Well said.
Amidst the blue skies
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The sheltering wings of the protector
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4602
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
straya fox wrote:@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you. More than you can even earn in one match?
Also, realize that running the vehicle without such gear guarantees that you'll lose it to AV. Complex Hardeners are almost a necessity, especially for a Python pilot.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4602
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Posted - 2014.02.16 07:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
straya fox wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:straya fox wrote:@numnutz, so at 650k ISK a pop you must be putting some fairly decent gear on your dropship, that you use in pubs. Like say running a proto drop suit in pubs, infantry expect to lose ISK under those conditions and so should you. More than you can even earn in one match? Also, realize that running the vehicle without such gear guarantees that you'll lose it to AV. Complex Hardeners are almost a necessity, especially for a Python pilot. I hear you man, but if you want to run a drop ship with the equivalent power to a proto suit then expect to lose money, it's a pub match, 2 proto drop suit deaths puts you negative ISK. I mean seriously, sounds like you just want to use a proto dropship to stomp pubs and never die. You are starting to sound like a tanker. Okay, first of all, vehicles don't even have tiers the way suits do. You have a basic vehicle, and then specializations of said vehicle.
There is no "non-Proto" or whatever alternative to the Python that a pilot can pull in a match. You either fly a Myron or a Python, and that's it. A Myron is useless by itself as it is intended solely to ferry troops around and provide support from door guns.
By the logic you're trying to base your argument on, anyone who puts SP into vehicles should only use them in PC matches, because they're "Proto gear". Thus a vehicle specialist is supposed to run Starter Fits or whatever infantry gear they might have specced into on the side simply to appease people such as yourself that believe the cost of my vehicle should be astronomical to "punish" me for being able to fly it.
Are you even thinking about this before you make these posts?
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4603
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Posted - 2014.02.16 08:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:darkiller240 wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:They need to stay expensive in order to prevent spam.
Case and point, tanks. Becuase good Assult dropship pilots are really common Its the biggest SP/Skill ( And Isk wich is a problem) sink in the game of course its gotto be powerful spamming such a thing is really hard There is no militia Ass Dropship +1 on reducing price to about 90k 150k would be fine and balanced I'd be quite happy with around 150k.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4607
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Posted - 2014.02.16 08:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
straya fox wrote:@NK Scout, i was having a discussion with Numnutz, and he only uses proto fittings on his assault dropship in pubs. I am of the opinion that if thats what you want to run then it's going to be ISK risky. He seems to break even though so i guess he's pretty good at it.
You can't balance a proto fitted dropship to be cost effective in pubs, it's ridiculous. Keep in mind that they hull alone with NO modules costs more than your average Skirmish match payout.
Amidst the blue skies
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
4681
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Posted - 2014.03.04 02:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:if assault dropships were cheap we would have aerial taks with xt missiles every where. and the reason they are more expensive is to keep them from being unspammable. i mean dropships get around MUCH faster than tanks and maybe LAV's are unhindered by terrain and are kept at bay by forges and railguns (a littler to well) so if these things were ridiculsy cheap chances of getting form point A to B without being attacked by an assault DS with xt missile would be nigh. Yeah they shouldn't be as cheap as milita tanks. But what about a complex fit gunnlogi? I don't have my turrets yet by for complex mods it only runs me 223k. That's still 100k cheaper than my assault dropships chassis with NOTHING ON IT. Let's put a proto rail turret on the gunnlogi and we get something like 450k for complex mods and a proto turret. 300k less than an assault dropship with a similar fit. Only the rail tank can destroy anything in about a clip and can sit in the redline and kill. So why shouldn't the assault dropships chassis cost 250k? That's one game to get the chassis with no mods or guns. Cheap? An assault dropship pilot would say yes, a grunt would say no. Yes, exactly.
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A link from past to future
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