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The Heavy machine gun, Accuratly inacurate

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XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 523	Posted - 2013.11.13 01:22:00 - [1] - Quote Hello guys, There are lots of heavies that you talk to about their heavy machine gun. When Asking whats wrong with it, a lot of them say that it feels sort of inaccurate, the range is bad, the spread is too much etc etc. People who don't use it would say things Like, "you should crouch and Aim Down Sites" and in all fairness it does help but, just a bit. The real reason that the heavy machine gun feels so under powered is that it's too accurate. The damage is centered on a point that is as small as the point on the laser rifle's "Aim down sights". So even if you aim down sights or have the target inside your spread at all times, chances are you are not going to deal any worthwhile damage unless you have the target centered. I could talk about this for ages and I still wouldn't make believers out of the most of you so why not a video. Dust 514 - Heavy Machine Gun accuracy Plasma Cannon Advocate
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2291	Posted - 2013.11.13 01:25:00 - [2] - Quote And yet despite this fact the freedom assault, having the tightest dispersion, also has the best damage application at medium to close range. Doesn't make sense, does it?
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1748	Posted - 2013.11.13 01:28:00 - [3] - Quote That links not working for me.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 523	Posted - 2013.11.13 01:35:00 - [4] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: That links not working for me. Should be working now Plasma Cannon Advocate
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 523	Posted - 2013.11.13 01:37:00 - [5] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: And yet despite this fact the freedom assault, having the tightest dispersion, also has the best damage application at medium to close range. Doesn't make sense, does it? well the video should clear this up. And you would understand why the HMG feels the way it feels Plasma Cannon Advocate
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1748	Posted - 2013.11.13 01:41:00 - [6] - Quote That just seems odd to me, but seeing it in action is kinda hard to deny. Seemed like earlier builds didn't act like that, I wonder if this is a recent bug?
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3961	Posted - 2013.11.13 01:43:00 - [7] - Quote Wow! Great video sure does clear up a lot of my concerns with the damn thing. In used to never spend points in sharpshooter prior to chromosome for that very reason it tightened the spread to the point it felt week in cqc. Then chromosome came out and sharpshooter actually gave range and was great. Now uprising 1. Whatever we are on and the thing works like poop sprinkles. Hopefully CCP will finally take a look at this video and explain to us all how this is working as intended Thank you very much for making this video! Plus1 Video of why the HMG sucks
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 330	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:05:00 - [8] - Quote Advice from a former HMG heavy in Chromosome, when heavies were much weaker than they are now. -Try to keep the majority of the target within the aiming reticle circle. -Start firing before you actually have a line of sight on your target. This allows your stream of bullets to concentrate to killing efficiency when you engage your enemy instead of having to wait when you engage. -Don't listen to idiots who say strafing is pointless for heavies. ALWAYS STRAFE! Strafe with the primary goal of tracking your target. Your secondary goal should be to avoid enemy fire. -Cover is your friend and worst enemy. Don't rely on your EHP to keep you alive, use cover. When an enemy uses cover, a portion of their body is protected and reduces your HMG's killing power. -The Gallente logi-LAV not only mitigates a heavy's poor mobility, but also provides an armor rep. Blatant Dust_514 recruiting in the silliest of places. :P
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3961	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:07:00 - [9] - Quote I can't imagine that this is working as intended however if they turned the aim assist on for the HMG exactly like it for the AR The HMG would definetly be on an equal playing field in cqc.
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3961	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:08:00 - [10] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Advice from a former HMG heavy in Chromosome, when heavies were much weaker than they are now. -Try to keep the majority of the target within the aiming reticle circle. -Start firing before you actually have a line of sight on your target. This allows your stream of bullets to concentrate to killing efficiency when you engage your enemy instead of having to wait when you engage. -Don't listen to idiots who say strafing is pointless for heavies. ALWAYS STRAFE! Strafe with the primary goal of tracking your target. Your secondary goal should be to avoid enemy fire. -Cover is your friend and worst enemy. Don't rely on your EHP to keep you alive, use cover. When an enemy uses cover, a portion of their body is protected and reduces your HMG's killing power. -The Gallente logi-LAV not only mitigates a heavy's poor mobility, but also provides an armor rep. Please watch the video chromosome heavy we did not have this issue then.

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 529	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:14:00 - [11] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Advice from a former HMG heavy in Chromosome, when heavies were much weaker than they are now. -Try to keep the majority of the target within the aiming reticle circle. -Start firing before you actually have a line of sight on your target. This allows your stream of bullets to concentrate to killing efficiency when you engage your enemy instead of having to wait when you engage. -Don't listen to idiots who say strafing is pointless for heavies. ALWAYS STRAFE! Strafe with the primary goal of tracking your target. Your secondary goal should be to avoid enemy fire. -Cover is your friend and worst enemy. Don't rely on your EHP to keep you alive, use cover. When an enemy uses cover, a portion of their body is protected and reduces your HMG's killing power. -The Gallente logi-LAV not only mitigates a heavy's poor mobility, but also provides an armor rep. Did you even see the video before posting?? This isn't a rant or a post saying the HMG is a bad weapon, I just posted whats wrong with the weapon period. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2164	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:16:00 - [12] - Quote maybe same problem with small blaster turrets they got broken in 1.5 and havnt been worth anything since.!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1353	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:29:00 - [13] - Quote I've known this for a while now. It's how the game works...basically the damage is calculated based on whether or not the tiny dot in the center is red. Other weapons (like the assault rifle) have a larger area that will turn it red. If that small dot was bigger (say, the size of the actual reticule?) maybe the HMG would work like it's supposed to. sigh -_- BTW, put the link at the top of your post. That way people click on it first, and let them know it's the video, or to watch it first before reading. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1286	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:52:00 - [14] - Quote I've thought that dispersion was a problem, but it looks as though I stand corrected. The reticle leads you to believe that the entire inner circle should be covered in fire. With the dot mostly just for a better "sense" of center. Of course, this Dust and I'll have to really find out for myself, but... +1 Cheeseburgers.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1142	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:53:00 - [15] - Quote +1 for science, and if Cyrius Li-Moody posts here, he'll get a +1 for taking one (or two, or three) for the team. At the risk of sounding like an ass, however: Red reticule means you are doing damage. White reticule means you are not. We all intuitively knew this, whether or not we had confirmation that the tiny little dot in the center is what determines the activation of the reticule. Is there any way you can turn your considerable scientific talents to determining the reduction in HMG damage based on distance, or whether the larger circle in the reticule has any effect on applied damage whatsoever? I'll provide you with a near-endless stream of Likes if you can keep this going. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1277	Posted - 2013.11.13 03:02:00 - [16] - Quote Thanks for posting the vid! It only further proves what us heavies have known and struggled with since 1.0 launched. +1 to you good sir! "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 542	Posted - 2013.11.13 03:10:00 - [17] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: +1 for science, and if Cyrius Li-Moody posts here, he'll get a +1 for taking one (or two, or three) for the team. At the risk of sounding like an ass, however: Red reticule means you are doing damage. White reticule means you are not. We all intuitively knew this, whether or not we had confirmation that the tiny little dot in the center is what determines the activation of the reticule. Is there any way you can turn your considerable scientific talents to determining the reduction in HMG damage based on distance, or whether the larger circle in the reticule has any effect on applied damage whatsoever? I'll provide you with a near-endless stream of Likes if you can keep this going. There really is almost no damage applied even when crouched or really close. That damage is mostly being applied to the center dot. I did the tests over range and everything but there really wasn't any point into putting it in there becuase it was redundant footage. I will say this though, crouching and aiming down sights reduced kick considerably making the user think that the weapon is actually getting more accurate. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1507	Posted - 2013.11.13 03:11:00 - [18] - Quote Hmmm... Tighten the HMG reticule, and slightly increase dispersion? For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 330	Posted - 2013.11.13 03:15:00 - [19] - Quote Very good video. Had no idea they changed the HMG mechanics. Blatant Dust_514 recruiting in the silliest of places. :P
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1143	Posted - 2013.11.13 03:20:00 - [20] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: There really is almost no damage applied even when crouched or really close. That damage is mostly being applied to the center dot. I did the tests over range and everything but there really wasn't any point into putting it in there becuase it was redundant footage. I will say this though, crouching and aiming down sights reduced kick considerably making the user think that the weapon is actually getting more accurate. Let me rephrase: is there a way to test whether crouching actually increases DPS, or whether the effect of the reticule "tightening" after firing for a second has a confirmable and/or significant effect on DPS? This is all given the fact that you need the center dot on target to do any damage whatsoever. ED: For more clarification: My theory is that CCP is simulating dispersion by mathematically reducing damage based on the fraction of the aiming reticule filled by the target. You need to have it centered to do any damage at all, yes, but I'm curious if applied DPS increases the more the target fills the reticule. I've had this theory for a while now, but can't really figure out a way to test it. I don't believe HMG DPS is reduced simply by a range-to-target calculation the same way the AR gets treated. I believe another factor is involved. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 543	Posted - 2013.11.13 03:27:00 - [21] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: There really is almost no damage applied even when crouched or really close. That damage is mostly being applied to the center dot. I did the tests over range and everything but there really wasn't any point into putting it in there becuase it was redundant footage. I will say this though, crouching and aiming down sights reduced kick considerably making the user think that the weapon is actually getting more accurate. Let me rephrase: is there a way to test whether crouching actually increases DPS, or whether the effect of the reticule "tightening" after firing for a second has a confirmable and/or significant effect on DPS? This is all given the fact that you need the center dot on target to do any damage whatsoever. ED: For more clarification: My theory is that CCP is simulating dispersion by mathematically reducing damage based on the fraction of the aiming reticule filled by the target. You need to have it centered to do any damage at all, yes, but I'm curious if applied DPS increases the more the target fills the reticule. I've had this theory for a while now, but can't really figure out a way to test it. I don't believe HMG DPS is reduced simply by a range-to-target calculation the same way the AR gets treated. I believe another factor is involved. Crouching just reduces the the large spread (circle) giving a sense of more accuracy. What makes it more accurate is that the gun's kick isn't throwing your gun off target. At least that's what tests have shown me. The close range footage is exactly how it would work when crouched. Your damage is still centered and not affected by how much "spread" the gun has. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1143	Posted - 2013.11.13 03:33:00 - [22] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Crouching just reduces the the large spread (circle) giving a sense of more accuracy. What makes it more accurate is that the gun's kick isn't throwing your gun off target. At least that's what tests have shown me. The close range footage is exactly how it would work when crouched. Your damage is still centered and not affected by how much "spread" the gun has. Okay, good to know. So in your opinion, the poor performance of the HMG at 30m (a distance still within HMG optimal range), is essentially due to bad player aim because of a misunderstanding of how the reticule actually works? If so... I guess I need to "get gud." ED: I suppose that would mean the "aim tightening" effect of firing the HMG for a second is almost totally for flavor and has no effect whatsoever if your aim is good. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 543	Posted - 2013.11.13 03:47:00 - [23] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Crouching just reduces the the large spread (circle) giving a sense of more accuracy. What makes it more accurate is that the gun's kick isn't throwing your gun off target. At least that's what tests have shown me. The close range footage is exactly how it would work when crouched. Your damage is still centered and not affected by how much "spread" the gun has. Okay, good to know. So in your opinion, the poor performance of the HMG at 30m (a distance still within HMG optimal range), is essentially due to bad player aim because of a misunderstanding of how the reticule actually works? If so... I guess I need to "get gud." I don't think the HMG user has to need to be a pin point shooter. Not even AR's have to be pin point. Thats the whole deal, the HMG is not functioning as a weapon that inherently has spread. It's functioning as a weapon that has no spread. If I have My opponent in my circle I expect to be dealing at least some damage but this does not hold up. Disturbingly Bored wrote: ED: I suppose that would mean the "aim tightening" effect of firing the HMG for a second is almost totally for flavor and has no effect whatsoever if your aim is good. It certainly appears to be that way. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Text Grant Death Firm. 220	Posted - 2013.11.13 03:56:00 - [24] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1482038#post1482038
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1143	Posted - 2013.11.13 03:57:00 - [25] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: I don't think the HMG user has to need to be a pin point shooter. Not even AR's have to be pin point. Thats the whole deal, the HMG is not functioning as a weapon that inherently has spread. It's functioning as a weapon that has no spread. If I have My opponent in my circle I expect to be dealing at least some damage but this does not hold up. Well sir, you have inspired me. Off to do some testing. If this is all correct, and lost DPS at range is actually lost to kick taking the center dot off target, an Assault HMG should be able to top a similar tier Assault Rifle at all ranges provided your aim is true. (The AHMG actually has a superior range profile and DPS.) I'm going to leave my pre-conceived prejudices at the door and give it the good ol' college try. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2517	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:07:00 - [26] - Quote I thought everybody knew this. I would have at least thought that anybody that had HMG'S past standard would have known this. This is why I never understood how people could call the HMG inaccurate. Anyways, keep crouching and keep aiming down the sights. Peace, Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3964	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:12:00 - [27] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I thought everybody knew this. I would have at least thought that anybody that had HMG'S past standard would have known this. This is why I never understood how people could call the HMG inaccurate. Anyways, keep crouching and keep aiming down the sights. Peace, . Lol
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 1853	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:13:00 - [28] - Quote WTF did i just watched? Ive allways thought the bullets go all over the place but seeing that is just mind blowing. For a example the hipfire from a AR has a wider area to cover then the HMG. I dont think that this is actually intended and funny thing is we all demanded better accuracy for the HMG. I believe we can all agree that the accuracy needs to be toned down so that it actually is lethal up close. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Summ Dude Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 73	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:15:00 - [29] - Quote Yea I kinda thought this was common knowledge, at least among HMG users. But I won't complain about having video evidence. Although I recall that among every single thread that has brought this problem up, there's been literally zero blue tags in response, which kinda worries me.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2517	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:45:00 - [30] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I thought everybody knew this. I would have at least thought that anybody that had HMG'S past standard would have known this. This is why I never understood how people could call the HMG inaccurate. Anyways, keep crouching and keep aiming down the sights. Peace, . Lol Bitter sweet my friend, bitter sweet. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 546	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:01:00 - [31] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Yea I kinda thought this was common knowledge, at least among HMG users. But I won't complain about having video evidence. Although I recall that among every single thread that has brought this problem up, there's been literally zero blue tags in response, which kinda worries me. The Thing is that it is common knowledge. What I just demonstrated was that the spread doesn't matter. That big big circle is a lie. Just like the cake BTW crouching and aiming down sights does nothing more than stabilize the turret. The reduction in spread is basically cosmetic. The same results are gained crouching or not but when your are not crouching the HMG wants to go everywhere Plasma Cannon Advocate
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 546	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:04:00 - [32] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: I don't think the HMG user has to need to be a pin point shooter. Not even AR's have to be pin point. Thats the whole deal, the HMG is not functioning as a weapon that inherently has spread. It's functioning as a weapon that has no spread. If I have My opponent in my circle I expect to be dealing at least some damage but this does not hold up. Well sir, you have inspired me. Off to do some testing. If this is all correct, and lost DPS at range is actually lost to kick taking the center dot off target, an Assault HMG should be able to top a similar tier Assault Rifle at all ranges provided your aim is true. (The AHMG actually has a superior range profile and DPS.) I'm going to leave my pre-conceived prejudices at the door and give it the good ol' college try. remember that drop off in damage is due to actual game mechanics . When you get farther from the damage is reduced no by a percentage. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1145	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:10:00 - [33] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: I'm going to leave my pre-conceived prejudices at the door and give it the good ol' college try. Well, I just went out and made an attempt at using the MO-4 against some decent AR players at range. I'd say the OP's general description is correct... it felt more like using the Laser Rifle than anything else. But even at 35m, my Proficiency 5 MO-4 Assault HMG didn't feel any more powerful than my no-SP Templar Scrambler Rifle. It might have something to do with the individual bullet damage being so low. You essentially have to keep a steady pin-point stream on target at range to kill it. The Assault HMG is, in effect, a weird-looking laser rifle. Bursting my shots seemed to be of no detriment nor benefit. Kick wasn't an issue, but low bullet damage made bursting pointless. I'm now thinking the HMG's poor performance at range simply has to do with the Heavy's inability to juke properly. My targets were jumping and two-stepping all over the screen, and even when I attempted to do the same in a ranged fight, I was too big and too easy a target. Needs more testing. In the mean time, AR HEAVIES: Please give the Assault HMG a shot, use it the same as you do an AR or laser rifle, and post your results. This should be interesting. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1356	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:22:00 - [34] - Quote Does anyone know IWS's info? This is something that the CPM should at least have their mind on with the whole TTK issue being dealt with right now Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 549	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:27:00 - [35] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Does anyone know IWS's info? This is something that the CPM should at least have their mind on with the whole TTK issue being dealt with right now TTK in 1.6 is terrible. I hate having my 1.5k hp suit drop in an instant to a Duvolle Plasma Cannon Advocate
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3965	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:35:00 - [36] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Does anyone know IWS's info? This is something that the CPM should at least have their mind on with the whole TTK issue being dealt with right now TTK in 1.6 is terrible. I hate having my 1.5k hp suit drop in an instant to a Duvolle Add that to the fact we are trying to shoot fast jumping suits that out range us by triple with aim assist, with a pinpoint weapon that takes the most aim and has no aim assist. It just becomes laughable at this point. But you know we can always squat and aim down sights. Trolollol.
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 183	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:45:00 - [37] - Quote Nice! Great job in pointing out the bug. Maybe now that I know what is going on, I can use a hmg without getting too frustrated.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1145	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:53:00 - [38] - Quote I don't know if it's actually a bug. It may have always been this way. We just lolled at the description that read "pin-point accurate stream of gunfire." Turns out it's true. Psychology and subjectivity trolled us... ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 554	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:56:00 - [39] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: I don't know if it's actually a bug. It may have always been this way. We just lolled at the description that read "pin-point accurate stream of gunfire." Turns out it's true. Psychology and subjectivity trolled us... Yes It does have that description but it's sort of not good on a weapon that shoots bullets that do mas 19 damage with an in your face optimal that people can just bunny hop and strafe ON a more serious not, the scramble pistol also has pin point thrown in there but it's kick make it not so pin point most of the time Plasma Cannon Advocate
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards 269	Posted - 2013.11.13 07:06:00 - [40] - Quote I figured that the HMG was too accurate... you can see it if you pay close attention. "We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste

Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1683	Posted - 2013.11.13 07:15:00 - [41] - Quote Anything in the name of science, fat bros. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 473	Posted - 2013.11.13 07:45:00 - [42] - Quote Well, this is interesting. Learn 2 aim heavies. Joke aside, the HMG sight is tooooo big if this is how it is supposed to be. An regular "AR"-cross would do just fine. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. CCP please make our decisions matter. "AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 325	Posted - 2013.11.13 08:00:00 - [43] - Quote How fking hard can it be to design weapons? Seriously. 1) Take a pencil 2) write down combat ranges 3) define weapons for those ranges 4) design weapons to dominate at "their" range HMG should have a spread area as wide as 2 dropsuits at 20m range and destroy anything inside.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 473	Posted - 2013.11.13 08:07:00 - [44] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: How fking hard can it be to design weapons? Seriously. 1) Take a pencil 2) write down combat ranges 3) define weapons for those ranges 4) design weapons to dominate at "their" range HMG should have a spread area as wide as 2 dropsuits at 20m range and destroy anything inside. Yes, either a huuuuuuuuge spread or increased range. Right now it has pinpoint accuracy and crap range => crap weapon. Minmatar weapons are however short range uber dmg weapons, so I think the spread should increase to make this weapon feared again. Looked at jolly rogers video from chromosome the other day. Look at the HMG spread in that vid, it is working there (see 4:55 for example): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd0tAoagjDE If they fix this, I might go heavy. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. CCP please make our decisions matter. "AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 325	Posted - 2013.11.13 08:11:00 - [45] - Quote Yeah, that video shows it perfectly. Just make the HMG destroy everything inside it's big circle at close range -> good. Balanced Imbalance.
Assert Dominance Ahrendee's Wafflehouse 456	Posted - 2013.11.13 08:22:00 - [46] - Quote Thats it! heavies cant aim! Who wouldve known -_- on the other hand my shotgun can be point blank and still not function properly... Your weapon does, i dont wanna hear it... Although i agree a hmg's spread should be much larger. The smg functions like a hmg more than the hmg. But my hate for heavies in chromosome when i first started in standard gear is keeping me from sympathizing. I eat blue waffles when i proto stomp.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.13 09:08:00 - [47] - Quote What a fabulous video. Never used the HMG before, but this certainly would help if I did. Thanks for taking the time & sharing...>Leadfoot
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 564	Posted - 2013.11.13 09:13:00 - [48] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: Thats it! heavies cant aim! Who wouldve known -_- on the other hand my shotgun can be point blank and still not function properly... Your weapon does, i dont wanna hear it... Although i agree a hmg's spread should be much larger. The smg functions like a hmg more than the hmg. But my hate for heavies in chromosome when i first started in standard gear is keeping me from sympathizing. heavies are not what they used to be. I'm pretty sure CCP will bring them back slowly like they did The mass driver after the nerf and the laser rifle after it was nerfed. Bide our time I guess... Good thing I still have my plasma cannon to fall back on... I'm a full logi but decided that heavy would be the next logical step. I can't logi If I don't know what the other side of the fence looks like. Anyways I got my HMG to profi 3 and adv sentinel sit. Saving up for proto sentinel. Plasma Cannon Advocate
castba Penguin's March 196	Posted - 2013.11.13 09:45:00 - [49] - Quote Right, so the hmg issue is how the system registers and calculates damage. Could it be set this way because it would be too taxing to calculate each individual round with the speed they are fired? Also interested if the burst has been tested? Nobody seems to mention the burst when discussing hmg issues.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 2116	Posted - 2013.11.13 09:58:00 - [50] - Quote Loved the video ! And indeed, i think an HMG should have a way wider spread of bullets before the stream gets narrow over time when constant firing. Tweaking this the right way would also allow for a slight buff to range as the balance there would be the need for the HMG to actually reach the near overheating really narrow stream to be really efficient over longer range. This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype. Et vive la France !

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 566	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:03:00 - [51] - Quote castba wrote: Right, so the hmg issue is how the system registers and calculates damage. Could it be set this way because it would be too taxing to calculate each individual round with the speed they are fired? Also interested if the burst has been tested? Nobody seems to mention the burst when discussing hmg issues. The Burst HMG is actually my favorite but also a bit more situational. With the burst I can pulse when I'm dead center and wait when I'm not and deal possibly even more damage because of it. The only drawback Is that the heat buildup is too quick and I only get about 4 bursts before overheat. Count the bunny hops and calculate for damage loss and the enemy is still not dead by overheat time unless they have a period when they are still. I can make a video of it if you guys like, I'll put it into my to do list. I have to find a way to get passed 1.6 with my sanity in tact. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 473	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:05:00 - [52] - Quote It feels like the weapon spread is not a bell curve, more like a ON/OFF thing, or the standard deviation of the bell curve is too small. I wonder what unit the weapon accuracy parameter in this game is in? Pixels? Has this parameter changed recently for the HMG? If someone knows, I could generate some graphs of 2 dimensional distributions to try this theory out. EDIT: Maybe CCP placed the decimal point wrong in the code or something (or forgot a zero)? :) It could actually be that the spread is 1/10 too small? +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. CCP please make our decisions matter. "AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 566	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:09:00 - [53] - Quote @Spectral Clone The last line of your signature is awesome.It's like naming all the patches of dust so far. What would you call 1.6? Plasma Cannon Advocate
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 275	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:13:00 - [54] - Quote I'm curious, does the shotgun have a similar problem? Meaning...does the actual reticule reflect where all the pellets are going or is it much more concentrated than it lets on? Also when AA kicks in (for any weapon that has AA) does it bring you to the center of the reticule, or merely to a part of it?
Kovinis Sparagas Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 84	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:17:00 - [55] - Quote How did you did that test???!! how can a friend go to enemy side? I want to test more, but CCP mechanics doesn't allow me to do it best kill streak
Rogue Saint Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 377	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:21:00 - [56] - Quote I'd like to see this same test with the shotgun. If the target reticule isn't red then nothing or very little will hit the target. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦
Laurent Cazaderon What The French 2118	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:30:00 - [57] - Quote Kovinis Sparagas wrote: How did you did that test???!! how can a friend go to enemy side? I want to test more, but CCP mechanics doesn't allow me to do it probably a friendly PC game. or a FW games with mostly friends on both sides This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype. Et vive la France !
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 474	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:32:00 - [58] - Quote Ok, I did a reference simulation just to show what a factor 10 and factor 100 wrong in the spread parameter for a gaussian distribution will look like. See links below Reference measurement (spread equals radius): Radius = 1, standard deviation = 1 http://i.imgur.com/1gPt4QN.jpg Factor 10 smaller standard deviation (spread): Radius = 1, standard deviation = 1/10 http://i.imgur.com/F3RRsLu.jpg Factor 100 smaller standard deviation (spread): Radius = 1, standard deviation = 1/100 http://i.imgur.com/kXGprmx.jpg Graphs and statistics FTW. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. "Core Locus 514. AR 514. Bricktank 514. COD 514."
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 567	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:34:00 - [59] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Kovinis Sparagas wrote: How did you did that test???!! how can a friend go to enemy side? I want to test more, but CCP mechanics doesn't allow me to do it probably a friendly PC game. or a FW games with mostly friends on both sides Oceania battle server at low traffic time. Synced a Dom and if we where on the same side I would leave and try again till I was in the opposing side. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 474	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:34:00 - [60] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: @Spectral Clone The last line of your signature is awesome.It's like naming all the patches of dust so far. What would you call 1.6? COD 514. Will add it. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. "Core Locus 514. AR 514. Bricktank 514. COD 514."

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 475	Posted - 2013.11.13 10:40:00 - [61] - Quote I think the second graph would serve as a 'how people believe the HMG should function' and the third graph indicates pretty well how it is now according to your nice experiments Ghaz. Ghaz: Could you summarize this thread and submit it as a bug report? Feel free to use my graphs to examplify to CCP what the problem is. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. "Core Locus 514. AR 514. Bricktank 514. COD 514."
George Moros Area 514 158	Posted - 2013.11.13 11:23:00 - [62] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: VIDEO!!! Dust 514 - Heavy Machine Gun accuracy Hello guys, There are lots of heavies that you talk to about their heavy machine gun. When Asking whats wrong with it, a lot of them say that it feels sort of inaccurate, the range is bad, the spread is too much etc etc. People who don't use it would say things Like, "you should crouch and Aim Down Sites" and in all fairness it does help but, just a bit. The real reason that the heavy machine gun feels so under powered is that it's too accurate. The damage is centered on a point that is as small as the point on the laser rifle's "Aim down sights". So even if you aim down sights or have the target inside your spread at all times, chances are you are not going to deal any worthwhile damage unless you have the target centered. I could talk about this for ages and I still wouldn't make believers out of the most of you so why not a video. I'm so glad someone finally made a video about HMG's aiming mechanics. There were several threads about this problem, but none had any videos to demonstrate this, and (more disturbingly) none of the threads ever received any attention from the devs. The main question here is whether this is working as intended (which is possible, but completely counterintuitive and lacking any meaningful connection with how a highly dispersive gatling gun should operate in reality), or is this simply a bug that CCP haven't payed any attention to (for whatever reason). In any case, I think the DUST community deserves an answer from the devs regarding this issue.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 475	Posted - 2013.11.13 11:33:00 - [63] - Quote Possible that CCP misplaced a decimal somewhere, forgot to update some value in the code when changing others (when adding new content), since they didnt change the sight to account for these changes. CCP seem to usually be very careful when doing these kind of changed to get every part right. I believe this is a bug. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. I Support SP Rollover. "Core Locus 514. AR 514. Bricktank 514. COD 514."
castba Penguin's March 196	Posted - 2013.11.13 11:42:00 - [64] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: castba wrote: Right, so the hmg issue is how the system registers and calculates damage. Could it be set this way because it would be too taxing to calculate each individual round with the speed they are fired? Also interested if the burst has been tested? Nobody seems to mention the burst when discussing hmg issues. The Burst HMG is actually my favorite but also a bit more situational. With the burst I can pulse when I'm dead center and wait when I'm not and deal possibly even more damage because of it. The only drawback Is that the heat buildup is too quick and I only get about 4 bursts before overheat. Count the bunny hops and calculate for damage loss and the enemy is still not dead by overheat time unless they have a period when they are still. I can make a video of it if you guys like, I'll put it into my to do list. I have to find a way to get passed 1.6 with my sanity in tact. Yeah, I only just discovered the burst. Love the reward and added challenge of closing more distance than the other variants. I only ask because the reticle seems to display slightly differently (shows an x between the dot and the large circle at times - ads?). Also, as with others I would be interested if you were able to similarly test out the shot gun. Thanks in advance - for when you actually have the time/could be bothered
Nin Ker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2013.11.13 11:46:00 - [65] - Quote Been using the HMG since I had only a mill SP and I'm still using now I'm up to 14. That said I recently spent some on the AR and the HMG does seem so much harder to aim with. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy it but in terms of killing power it really does feel sub par.
Ninjanomyx Ancient Exiles 431	Posted - 2013.11.13 11:56:00 - [66] - Quote Thanx for the Video. I knew something was off when people were saying it was bad in even CQC Ranges nowadays..... I remember it being slightly Conal as per the Circle Recticle, even after "Doom Mode" was added, lending to its true purpose. I could wave the HMG like a WiiMote around the skulls of Redberries & make Strawberry Jam back then..... Now??? Just an AR with terrible Accuracy...... No wonder the "Pin Effect" of the Stream is now easier to Strafe around.....even after Strafing was Nerfed..... Since my level of F**KS given was Nerfed after Tank Large Turret Rendering was broken.....my willingness to play BETA Tester for CCP went to Nil....as my Morale was brought to about the same @ yes....lol @ Small Blasters, even Large Blasters since sometimes I feel as if I'm dead on yet hit Oxygen every other shot, even when Controlled Firing. HitScan Weapons that were not granted God King AR & Prince Ali SMG Aimbot are suffering....go figure
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 162	Posted - 2013.11.13 12:19:00 - [67] - Quote well done sir, I am astounded, I'm curios to see if this helps my roomate.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1147	Posted - 2013.11.13 12:40:00 - [68] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: with an in your face optimal that people can just bunny hop and strafe I'm not sure you're reading your own results correctly there, Ghaz. 30m optimal isn't that horrible compared to AR's 38m, and AHMG has 43m. If your main point is accurate, and I believe it is, the actual optimal and effective range stats of HMG have no problems whatsoever. I have an idea on how you can test this: Set up a video, put your aim dead center on your target, and record time to kill at full-auto at 5m and at 30m for the MH-82 HMG, and at 5m and at 40m for the MO-4 Assault HMG. If the time-to-kill is identical, it would be definitive proof that the HMG has no range issues at all, and instead poor performance at range is a product of needing absolutely perfect aim to keep damage on target. Galvan Nized wrote: I'm curious, does the shotgun have a similar problem? Meaning...does the actual reticule reflect where all the pellets are going or is it much more concentrated than it lets on? That would be really, really interesting to see. It could be that every single weapon in the game has pin-point perfect accuracy, and that all problems stem from our perceptions on how they should work. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
HUNK tm What The French 15	Posted - 2013.11.13 12:46:00 - [69] - Quote Thank you a lot for this test in video. I always had the impression that the dispersion of HMG was low. It is a paradox ! Why the HMG seems so inaccurate ?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4346	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:22:00 - [70] - Quote Oh look at that, my theory was right. I was baffled at why people deemed the HMG as a bad weapon, as when I used it, it was a great thing, and the only thing I could think of is "they suck at aiming". I was right all along, huzzah. Puts on flame shield *Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant* *Beta Vet* *Level 4 Forum Warrior*

Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 210	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:26:00 - [71] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: VIDEO!!! Dust 514 - Heavy Machine Gun accuracy Hello guys, There are lots of heavies that you talk to about their heavy machine gun. When Asking whats wrong with it, a lot of them say that it feels sort of inaccurate, the range is bad, the spread is too much etc etc. People who don't use it would say things Like, "you should crouch and Aim Down Sites" and in all fairness it does help but, just a bit. The real reason that the heavy machine gun feels so under powered is that it's too accurate. The damage is centered on a point that is as small as the point on the laser rifle's "Aim down sights". So even if you aim down sights or have the target inside your spread at all times, chances are you are not going to deal any worthwhile damage unless you have the target centered. I could talk about this for ages and I still wouldn't make believers out of the most of you so why not a video. I think its the same with shotguns and its stupid as both weapons take great advantage of spread...
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1148	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:57:00 - [72] - Quote Okay, refined video request. If we could get the following "on tape" it'd put a lot of different things to rest. EQUIPMENT: Use a basic Heavy Machine Gun no damage mods, because lower damage gives longer and less ambiguous time-to-kill. Have your target record the shield and armor HP of his fit. Have him stand still and heal to full between each test. Aim for center mass so every shot hits. GÇó Firing full-auto at 5m until target is dead (baseline) GÇó Firing full-auto at 29m until target is dead (just under max effective range test) GÇó Firing full-auto at 39m until target is dead (we could calculate DPS lost to falloff) GÇó Firing full-auto at 48m until target is dead (calculate falloff at max effective range) GÇó Test if Aim Assist applies to HMG: simply have your target move side to side with AA on without adjusting your aim. If the reticule moves, AA works for HMG. I can calculate time-to-kill, DPS, and DPS lost just from having the video of all of the above. I'll send 10 million ISK to you and your test-dummy each for posting the link in this thread. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
HUNK tm What The French 15	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:22:00 - [73] - Quote The new heavy weapon : Heavy machine gun "Sasha" Why the HMG seems so inaccurate ?
jamstar saa187 the third day Public Disorder. 59	Posted - 2013.11.13 15:41:00 - [74] - Quote just saw the video. i would have never guessed THAT was the problem with the HMG, but that is hard evidence to refute. YOU sir are on to something with this. well done! hopefully CCP will take a look at that video and fix the mechanics of the weapon to work as intended.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 481	Posted - 2013.11.13 16:37:00 - [75] - Quote Doesnt make sense that such a weapons accuracy/spread increase with range. It should spread like a cone. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. I Support SP Rollover. "Core Locus 514. AR 514. Bricktank 514. COD 514."
George Moros Area 514 159	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:05:00 - [76] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: GÇó Test if Aim Assist applies to HMG: simply have your target move side to side with AA on without adjusting your aim. If the reticule moves, AA works for HMG. I can confirm that AA applies to HMG. I have witnessed on many occasions that reticule moves to follow the target without me adjusting my aim. However, I would rather have HMG aiming function as everyone expects it to (everything caught in the aiming ring takes damage), and have AA disabled, than have AA enabled and aiming functioning like it does now.
Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 328	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:46:00 - [77] - Quote It needs more range and damage to function and be worthy the name heavy machine gun.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 576	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:57:00 - [78] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: with an in your face optimal that people can just bunny hop and strafe I'm not sure you're reading your own results correctly there, Ghaz. 30m optimal isn't that horrible compared to AR's 38m, and AHMG has It could be that every single weapon in the game has pin-point perfect accuracy, and that all problems stem from our perceptions on how they should work. At 30 meters your target can still effectively bunny hop and strafe enough of your damage. That All I meant. There is no loss in damage based on mechanics. The loss is purely because the opponent is strafing and jumping making it a lot harder to keep the dot centered. And the weapon is in your face because everyone is fighting at 50 meters+ unless it's a battle for a point but even then ther are shooting way before they even get close enough t be effective with the weapon. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Vexen Arc OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 35	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:01:00 - [79] - Quote There had better be a good reason why the Devs have all but ignored communicating with the players about the state of the HMG, and heavy weapons/suits in general. I would really like the CPM to petition CCP to make a statement about whether this is working as intended. Thanks for posting this video.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 122	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:11:00 - [80] - Quote To avoid breaking the gun worse I would say the HMG needs a few things to be what it should: 1. Increase optimal range/reduce rate of damage fall off (think a slope not an exponential curve) 2. Increase bullet size, that's right, increase the amount if area the bullet takes up and thereby increasing chance of bullets hitting and grazing the target. 3. Increase dispersion to fill cone at 30/40m You end up with more bullets hitting, and at actually gaining use of the entire reticle at max range (or close to it) Thoughts?

Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2175	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:13:00 - [81] - Quote Great stuff, OP. +1 (I see Moody!)
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 122	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:13:00 - [82] - Quote We need some feedback CCP! What do we want, a response from the DEVs!! When did we want it, 1.5!
martinofski Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 325	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:15:00 - [83] - Quote I have been testing this when uprising came out, but didn't had anything to record testing. I was actually looking at the damage fall off. Great video. I feel just bad the DEV haven't found that already, and if they did, they didn't solved it yet. The idea I had: The damage should be dealt depending on the Area % the enemy take in that reticle. Far away, low %=low damage. CQC, higher %=good CQC weapon. Then adjust the range of the weapon to longer range, since you know, a perfectly aimed guy at 40m will cover only 10% of the reticle anyway. When the reticle reduce in size like it does, it directly increase the % of area if you are still aiming in center, dealing better damage at long range, but not so different at short range, where the guy already take 90% of the area. Just a tought. See you in a couple more months, when I feel like commenting on something again, or playing...
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1149	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:51:00 - [84] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: To avoid breaking the gun worse I would say the HMG needs a few things to be what it should: 1. Increase optimal range/reduce rate of damage fall off (think a slope not an exponential curve) 2. Increase bullet size, that's right, increase the amount if area the bullet takes up and thereby increasing chance of bullets hitting and grazing the target. 3. Increase dispersion to fill cone at 30/40m You end up with more bullets hitting, and at actually gaining use of the entire reticle at max range (or close to it) Thoughts? Honestly, I think you're asking for a heck of a lot of change at once. Just changing the mechanics of how the gun does damage, and nothing else, can totally change its balance in the game. I wonder if CCP would ever change this, though... I also wonder if it was ever different than what it is today. Hard to tell for certain. If it was changed, I'd likely point to range profile changes in 1.2. Which means we've been living with this for a while. ED: And just to clarify per your post point #2: there actually is no bullet in terms of game mechanics. It's hitscan. Pull trigger, do damage. Everything else is just graphics. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3968	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:53:00 - [85] - Quote Well I went ahead and made a ticket with your great video OP and sent in to support. I suggest all of the heavies out there do the same thing. There was most certainly a cone effect in earlier iterations of this weapon so this has to be a bug.
lDocHollidayl Ancient Exiles. 342	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:07:00 - [86] - Quote I saw 87 bullets leave your gun. The victim had 630 hp. I am at work but can anyone find out the dps vs actual dps?
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1270	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:10:00 - [87] - Quote You guys have my support I'm assault I run carthum with assaults or when I run logi...I only use heavies for the forge I support a hmg buff...singed by a slayer I'm everyone's type
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1149	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:41:00 - [88] - Quote lDocHollidayl wrote: I saw 87 bullets leave your gun. The victim had 630 hp. I am at work but can anyone find out the dps vs actual dps? I'm inclined to believe it's just a graphical effect. 87 bullets against 630hp would work out to 7ish damage a bullet, when the Boundless he used does a bare minimum of 19.8. Ghaz starts firing at 0:34 and Cyrius is dead before 0:36 in the video, so it's spitting out more than that. Unless you counted every bullet in the video... ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 123	Posted - 2013.11.13 20:08:00 - [89] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Slag Emberforge wrote: To avoid breaking the gun worse I would say the HMG needs a few things to be what it should: 1. Increase optimal range/reduce rate of damage fall off (think a slope not an exponential curve) 2. Increase bullet size, that's right, increase the amount if area the bullet takes up and thereby increasing chance of bullets hitting and grazing the target. 3. Increase dispersion to fill cone at 30/40m You end up with more bullets hitting, and at actually gaining use of the entire reticle at max range (or close to it) Thoughts? Honestly, I think you're asking for a heck of a lot of change at once. Just changing the mechanics of how the gun does damage, and nothing else, can totally change its balance in the game. I wonder if CCP would ever change this, though... I also wonder if it was ever different than what it is today. Hard to tell for certain. If it was changed, I'd likely point to range profile changes in 1.2. Which means we've been living with this for a while. ED: And just to clarify per your post point #2: there actually is no bullet in terms of game mechanics. It's hitscan. Pull trigger, do damage. Everything else is just graphics. Hitscan or bullet it does not matter make the area that lines up with the enemies hit box larger would in effect make more like firing a projectile and less like a laser pointer. If you want to think of it in terms of the size of the reticle being the rough area of the "hitscan" then it is a needle currently, make the diameter/area larger. I hope that clarifies it a bit, I apologize if it is still unclear as I am a bit sleep deprived.
RAMB0 Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2013.11.13 20:20:00 - [90] - Quote This why I might not be playing this game after I get my pre ordered ps4 on friday. BTW the machine gun in Doom 20 years ago worked much better that the HMG in Dust lol

J0hlss0n Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 40	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:06:00 - [91] - Quote Nice work. =)
THE-BEAST Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 97	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:08:00 - [92] - Quote No wonder why I quit this game after the hmg nerf. If they fix this it might make the BMG worth using again
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2297	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:15:00 - [93] - Quote Quote: Unlike earlier models, the weapon requires no spool up time: rounds are expelled the instant the trigger is pressed. This comes at the cost of intially reduced accuracy as the counter-rotating drives slowly align. Once fully aligned, however, the HMG produces a pinpoint stream of gunfire with unmatched killing potential. The pinpoint part seems to indeed be the issue. If this weapon had a more extreme optimal range It'd make more sense, as pinpoint accuracy is what you need for that kind of work. Seems to me that within the first second its too inaccurate, and when its fully spun up its way too accurate. I've tried bursting the thing to maintain a balance inbetween but that just gets its DPS beaten out.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1151	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:24:00 - [94] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: Hitscan or bullet it does not matter make the area that lines up with the enemies hit box larger would in effect make more like firing a projectile and less like a laser pointer. If you want to think of it in terms of the size of the reticle being the rough area of the "hitscan" then it is a needle currently, make the diameter/area larger. I hope that clarifies it a bit, I apologize if it is still unclear as I am a bit sleep deprived. All good, sir, and yes it does. I was just hoping to be crystal clear about the mechanics, since this weapon already works in a way that's different from what we expected... XxGhazbaranxX wrote: At 30 meters your target can still effectively bunny hop and strafe enough of your damage. That All I meant. There is no loss in damage based on mechanics. Gotcha. Do you think a video demonstrating damage over range wouldn't be useful? I'm still curious about the actual DPS loss from falloff, but I suppose that can be discovered somehow else. You've clearly solved the main point of HMG damage or inaccuracy out the edge of its optimal range. (As in, there is none...) ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Montezumas Revenge the majestic space duck 20	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:55:00 - [95] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: How fking hard can it be to design weapons? Seriously. 1) Take a pencil 2) write down combat ranges 3) define weapons for those ranges 4) design weapons to dominate at "their" range HMG should have a spread area as wide as 2 dropsuits at 20m range and destroy anything inside. Yes, either a huuuuuuuuge spread or increased range. Right now it has pinpoint accuracy and crap range => crap weapon. Minmatar weapons are however short range uber dmg weapons, so I think the spread should increase to make this weapon feared again. Looked at jolly rogers video from chromosome the other day. Look at the HMG spread in that vid, it is working there (see 4:10 for example): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd0tAoagjDE If they fix this, I might go heavy. Actually, dude, after watching that video it doesn't look like damage is being applied unless the reticule is completely centered on the target.
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3968	Posted - 2013.11.14 02:02:00 - [96] - Quote So it seems most agree that this is not working as intended. Now if only we can get some confirmation from CCP
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 588	Posted - 2013.11.14 06:17:00 - [97] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: So it seems most agree that this is not working as intended. Now if only we can get some confirmation from CCP The thing is that based on the description it i working as intended by CCP. The problem Is that it's not working as it should be working for that type of weapon. For a weapon that works at 30 meters or less having to be pin point accurate all the time is not possible. This means that the HMG user losses most of their damage due to a mechanic that does not reflect how the weapon should work based on rapid fire weapons. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 593	Posted - 2013.11.14 06:21:00 - [98] - Quote It only seems to do this when standing still. If you move at all you can notice there is much more spread.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 588	Posted - 2013.11.14 06:25:00 - [99] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: It only seems to do this when standing still. If you move at all you can notice there is much more spread. The is no spread. If you are talking about the huge circle, it doesn't actually matter. The circle is a lie. The bullets don't go anywhere but the point in the center. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 593	Posted - 2013.11.14 06:30:00 - [100] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Dexter307 wrote: It only seems to do this when standing still. If you move at all you can notice there is much more spread. The is no spread. If you are talking about the huge circle, it doesn't actually matter. The circle is a lie. The bullets don't go anywhere but the point in the center. You can visualy see the bullets travel away from the center when your moving. Ive even tested it and got hit markers when i had the point in the center not aimed at the target.

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 588	Posted - 2013.11.14 06:31:00 - [101] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Dexter307 wrote: It only seems to do this when standing still. If you move at all you can notice there is much more spread. The is no spread. If you are talking about the huge circle, it doesn't actually matter. The circle is a lie. The bullets don't go anywhere but the point in the center. You can visualy see the bullets travel away from the center when your moving. Ive even tested it and got hit markers when i had the point in the center not aimed at the target. The animation is not the same as where the bullets are hitting. But for the sake of argument I can also make s video of this too. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 593	Posted - 2013.11.14 06:36:00 - [102] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Dexter307 wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Dexter307 wrote: It only seems to do this when standing still. If you move at all you can notice there is much more spread. The is no spread. If you are talking about the huge circle, it doesn't actually matter. The circle is a lie. The bullets don't go anywhere but the point in the center. You can visualy see the bullets travel away from the center when your moving. Ive even tested it and got hit markers when i had the point in the center not aimed at the target. The animation is not the same as where the bullets are hitting. But for the sake of argument I can also make s video of this too. Even if the animation was off i can still get hitmarkers
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 201	Posted - 2013.11.14 09:08:00 - [103] - Quote This is that rarest of things - something on the forums that actually contributes to knowledge. I, like everyone else, always thought the problem with the HMG was too much spread; turns out it is actually too little. You are like a Dust Copernicus. +1 good sir.

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 149	Posted - 2013.11.14 09:36:00 - [104] - Quote Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 487	Posted - 2013.11.14 09:46:00 - [105] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. Yay! Blue post! +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. I Support SP Rollover. "Core Locus 514. AR 514. Bricktank 514. COD 514."
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 643	Posted - 2013.11.14 10:17:00 - [106] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. hopefully us heavies can have a improved HMG to murder all those reds with and maybe go back to the days when we were feared YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 593	Posted - 2013.11.14 10:26:00 - [107] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. hopefully us heavies can have a improved HMG to murder all those reds with and maybe go back to the days when we were feared I hate using my HMG and have reds not even stop coming at me. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 329	Posted - 2013.11.14 10:46:00 - [108] - Quote It must be an idiot proof killingmachine. It dont even come halfway close to the forge guns combat effectiveness. It is hard to use, difficult to kill and compete with and not fun. RL machineguns are an orgasmic experience to operate, wielding the dust514's HMG is quite the opposite.
Rusty Shallows 490	Posted - 2013.11.14 10:50:00 - [109] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: Thats it! heavies cant aim! Who wouldve known -_- on the other hand my shotgun can be point blank and still not function properly... Your weapon does, i dont wanna hear it... Although i agree a hmg's spread should be much larger. The smg functions like a hmg more than the hmg. But my hate for heavies in chromosome when i first started in standard gear is keeping me from sympathizing. Tuesday night my buddy in his shotgun Gal-logi had no problem getting kills. Neither did a corp-mate nor the guy who out maneuvered and shot me in the face (although he only survived with a sliver of health) Wednesday night. We have all had weapons go buggy. During this last event on more than one occasion my HMG wouldn't spool or FG couldn't charge. My last session I experienced a new bug where priming the grenade would then switched out to another weapon and only by weapon changing again would it then let me finally throw the grenade before it detonated. "She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now," Thank you SR-71
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3969	Posted - 2013.11.14 10:53:00 - [110] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. Thank you to the OP for finally putting an explanation to all of us heavies huge frustration with this iteration of the HMG And thank you CCP for acknowledging this thread. I have hope that you too will determine this is not working as intended and the HMG is in need of some serious love.

Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 201	Posted - 2013.11.14 11:32:00 - [111] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. I'm not sure that increasing spread per se is the correct solution, as this will make the weapon even less effective at mid range . Rather just make the area that hits larger, to reflect the fact this is a multi-barrel weapon. To illustrate: Current situation of laser beam-like fire looks like this: --- (which is crap close up) Increased spread would look like this: < (which is crap at range) Increased hit area would look like this: --- --- (where the two lines represent the top and bottom barrel, and anything between them at any range gets hit)
George Moros Area 514 160	Posted - 2013.11.14 11:37:00 - [112] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. Thank god this issue finally got some dev attention. However (and sorry for being a *****), there were several threads about this issue posted before, describing the HMG aiming/hit detection problem in detail, and they all requested a dev response. Does one really need to make a friggin' youtube video about an issue to get dev attention around here???
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3969	Posted - 2013.11.14 11:38:00 - [113] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. I'm not sure that increasing spread per se is the correct solution, as this will make the weapon even less effective at mid range . Rather just make the area that hits larger, to reflect the fact this is a multi-barrel weapon. To illustrate: Current situation of laser beam-like fire looks like this: --- (which is crap close up) Increased spread would look like this: < (which is crap at range) Increased hit area would look like this: --- --- (where the two lines represent the top and bottom barrel, and anything between them at any range gets hit) Well in past builds the HMG did actually shoot in a cone and it became tighter the longer you shoot. So they have the technology, apparently some wires got crossed and numbers may have been inputed with thick thumbs causing this debacle.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 491	Posted - 2013.11.14 11:48:00 - [114] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. I'm not sure that increasing spread per se is the correct solution, as this will make the weapon even less effective at mid range . Rather just make the area that hits larger, to reflect the fact this is a multi-barrel weapon. To illustrate: Current situation of laser beam-like fire looks like this: --- (which is crap close up) Increased spread would look like this: < (which is crap at range) Increased hit area would look like this: --- --- (where the two lines represent the top and bottom barrel, and anything between them at any range gets hit) Well in past builds the HMG did actually shoot in a cone and it became tighter the longer you shoot. So they have the technology, apparently some wires got crossed and numbers may have been inputed with thick thumbs causing this debacle. Yeh, I believe that the HMG might still have this cone, but some numbers are fudged in the code, especially the parameter describing the spread (or radius) of the cone. +¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13. I Support SP Rollover. "Core Locus 514. AR 514. Bricktank 514. COD 514."
George Moros Area 514 160	Posted - 2013.11.14 11:53:00 - [115] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: I'm not sure that increasing spread per se is the correct solution, as this will make the weapon even less effective at mid range . Rather just make the area that hits larger, to reflect the fact this is a multi-barrel weapon. To illustrate: Spread should remain as it is (assuming spread is determined by the HMG's aiming ring). The main question here is how exactly does server calculate and apply the damage on target. I doubt that it calculates trajectory/hit detection for every bullet since a 2000 RPM weapon would probably put too much stress on the servers. IMHO, HMG hit detection should work as follows: The target should receive damage proportional to the percentage of the surface area it occupies in the HMG's aiming ring. Thus, if your target is closer, it receives more damage since it occupies more space in the aiming ring. Also, when the aiming ring starts shrinking, more damage is applied to more distant targets - this would actually work exactly according to the HMG's weapon description. What's even more important, if more than one target is inside HMG's aiming ring, they should all receive damage proportional to the surface area they occupy - this would make HMG a true "spray and pray" weapon. As it should be.
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 692	Posted - 2013.11.14 12:10:00 - [116] - Quote I feel dumb.. I use to whine stating that the dispersion was far too much which ultimately added to the HMG's inaccuracies. After all this time, it turns out that I just suck at aiming... No wonder why I play a support medic MinLogi with an Assault MD now... because I can't shoot.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 602	Posted - 2013.11.14 12:16:00 - [117] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: I feel dumb.. I use to whine stating that the dispersion was far too much which ultimately added to the HMG's inaccuracies. After all this time, it turns out that I just suck at aiming... No wonder why I play a support medic MinLogi with an Assault MD now... because I can't shoot. Yes and no. No one should be obligated to be pin point accurate 100% of the time. Apart from lasers, no weapon is pinpoint. All have spread that help out with aiming inaccuracies. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Shley Ashes TanksVeryMuch 65	Posted - 2013.11.14 12:36:00 - [118] - Quote You're cheating on the plasma canon ! Does she know? if she asks, i'll say you was to drunk to drive an stayed at mine bro's before hoes I gotcha back bra I used to pilot HAV's then I took a forge gun to the knee
TuFar Gon 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 42	Posted - 2013.11.14 12:36:00 - [119] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: VIDEO!!! Dust 514 - Heavy Machine Gun accuracy Hello guys, There are lots of heavies that you talk to about their heavy machine gun. When Asking whats wrong with it, a lot of them say that it feels sort of inaccurate, the range is bad, the spread is too much etc etc. People who don't use it would say things Like, "you should crouch and Aim Down Sites" and in all fairness it does help but, just a bit. The real reason that the heavy machine gun feels so under powered is that it's too accurate. The damage is centered on a point that is as small as the point on the laser rifle's "Aim down sights". So even if you aim down sights or have the target inside your spread at all times, chances are you are not going to deal any worthwhile damage unless you have the target centered. I could talk about this for ages and I still wouldn't make believers out of the most of you so why not a video. NEWS!! CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. Thank you CCP for answering . I hope the video helps the DEVS and the Heavy community alike. lets hope so,,cuz ya'll at ccp shut the game down this morning(downtime) to hotfix the nova knife. Will the hmg recieve the same kind of attention FINALLY!!?? Or will this be more proof that the devs are biased. They'll actually stop the game to fix the nova knife,,but not the hmg which has been broken since the deployment of uprising. READ THE DAMN FORUMS DEV'S. How many post's by heavys have u seen,,pleading for the hmg fix?? BIASED,,,,LIARS,,,CROOKS,,,,NUFF SAID
Ensar Cael Svartur Bjorn 25	Posted - 2013.11.14 12:40:00 - [120] - Quote Not a heavy but I have heard it noted that the HMG should have stopping power as in impeding the enemies movement and possibly pushing them back. Pretty much the chain gun cha cha. Wouldn't this add to the effectiveness of the HMG?

Gabriella Grey The Neutral Zone 86	Posted - 2013.11.14 12:51:00 - [121] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: VIDEO!!! Dust 514 - Heavy Machine Gun accuracy Hello guys, There are lots of heavies that you talk to about their heavy machine gun. When Asking whats wrong with it, a lot of them say that it feels sort of inaccurate, the range is bad, the spread is too much etc etc. People who don't use it would say things Like, "you should crouch and Aim Down Sites" and in all fairness it does help but, just a bit. The real reason that the heavy machine gun feels so under powered is that it's too accurate. The damage is centered on a point that is as small as the point on the laser rifle's "Aim down sights". So even if you aim down sights or have the target inside your spread at all times, chances are you are not going to deal any worthwhile damage unless you have the target centered. I could talk about this for ages and I still wouldn't make believers out of the most of you so why not a video. NEWS!! CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. Thank you CCP for answering . I hope the video helps the DEVS and the Heavy community alike. CCP this can more than likely be the issue for many other complaints with other guns in comparison to the Assault Rifles. Would love to see more videos similar to this with all other weapon variants if possible.
Jacques Cayton II Providence Guard Templis Dragonaors 103	Posted - 2013.11.14 13:33:00 - [122] - Quote Remember when proto heavies were unstoppable. Pepridge farms remembers We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 202	Posted - 2013.11.14 13:54:00 - [123] - Quote George Moros wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. Thank god this issue finally got some dev attention. However (and sorry for being a *****), there were several threads about this issue posted before, describing the HMG aiming/hit detection problem in detail, and they all requested a dev response. Does one really need to make a friggin' youtube video about an issue to get dev attention around here??? I've read dozens of HMG threads and not one previously said that the problem was that HMG did not fire in a cone as the reticule suggested. Now we have proof of exactly what the problem is and CCP are looking into it. So props to them.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1153	Posted - 2013.11.14 14:18:00 - [124] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: I've read dozens of HMG threads and not one previously said that the problem was that HMG did not fire in a cone as the reticule suggested. Now we have proof of exactly what the problem is and CCP are looking into it. So props to them. Yep, massive props to Ghaz for proving it in a way that any belligerent idiot could understand. Whoever said "The Copernicus of DUST" is correct. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 202	Posted - 2013.11.14 14:25:00 - [125] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: I've read dozens of HMG threads and not one previously said that the problem was that HMG did not fire in a cone as the reticule suggested. Now we have proof of exactly what the problem is and CCP are looking into it. So props to them. Yep, massive props to Ghaz for proving it in a way that any belligerent idiot could understand. Whoever said "The Copernicus of DUST" is correct. That was me as well
jamstar saa187 the third day Public Disorder. 59	Posted - 2013.11.14 14:45:00 - [126] - Quote a HMG thread received a blue tag, and for this i am happy! hopefully lets roll on to the good times.
Audacious Mandate Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.11.14 15:20:00 - [127] - Quote +1 for the video, as a new Heavy it's very helpful (also explains how I was reliably getting HS at about 20 meters). I am curious though why anyone would want dispersal to fill the entire cone? Yes, it would give you more of a shotgun effect at close range, but at effective range the same number of bullets filling a larger area would do less damage on whoever you hit. I like the aiming the way it is now, we just need a more representative reticle. When I created this alt it was because I kept seeing threads about the poor damage of the HMG; yet despite that I ran across quite a few (not all) Heavies who could shred people very effectively with it. Maybe it's because I got used to playing with more accurate weapons like the sniper rifle, but I prefer accuracy. Edit: sorry for the wall:)
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 593	Posted - 2013.11.14 15:43:00 - [128] - Quote Audacious Mandate wrote: +1 for the video, as a new Heavy it's very helpful (also explains how I was reliably getting HS at about 20 meters). I am curious though why anyone would want dispersal to fill the entire cone? Yes, it would give you more of a shotgun effect at close range, but at effective range the same number of bullets filling a larger area would do less damage on whoever you hit. I like the aiming the way it is now, we just need a more representative reticle. When I created this alt it was because I kept seeing threads about the poor damage of the HMG; yet despite that I ran across quite a few (not all) Heavies who could shred people very effectively with it. Maybe it's because I got used to playing with more accurate weapons like the sniper rifle, but I prefer accuracy. Edit: sorry for the wall:) Agreed
George Moros Area 514 162	Posted - 2013.11.14 16:46:00 - [129] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: I've read dozens of HMG threads and not one previously said that the problem was that HMG did not fire in a cone as the reticule suggested. Now we have proof of exactly what the problem is and CCP are looking into it. So props to them. This is just one I found with quick search. I remember at least a couple more. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94513
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1153	Posted - 2013.11.14 16:57:00 - [130] - Quote George Moros wrote: This is just one I found with quick search. I remember at least a couple more. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94513 That's science for you. Credit doesn't go to the guy who actually discovers something, but to the person who makes it widely known. I'll be sure to mention Master in the same breath as Ghaz any time this comes up in the future. His thread confirms we've been dealing with this for quite a while... I think the date of his post is evidence that a change possibly occurred with the range mechanic updates in Uprising 1.2. That is, assuming it hasn't always been this way. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù

GTA V FTW 183	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:20:00 - [131] - Quote LOL CCP only responds to its epic failure as FPS Devs when caught on film. Fix for this issue SoonGäó = Never If it ever does get fixed then there will be a massive amount of "HMG's are OP again" QQ threads, pffff! GG CCP CCP = FPS noobs Meh, broke game will always be broke.
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 487	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:32:00 - [132] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Audacious Mandate wrote: +1 for the video, as a new Heavy it's very helpful (also explains how I was reliably getting HS at about 20 meters). I am curious though why anyone would want dispersal to fill the entire cone? Yes, it would give you more of a shotgun effect at close range, but at effective range the same number of bullets filling a larger area would do less damage on whoever you hit. I like the aiming the way it is now, we just need a more representative reticle. When I created this alt it was because I kept seeing threads about the poor damage of the HMG; yet despite that I ran across quite a few (not all) Heavies who could shred people very effectively with it. Maybe it's because I got used to playing with more accurate weapons like the sniper rifle, but I prefer accuracy. Edit: sorry for the wall:) Agreed We don't need a smaller reticle. What we want is when someone is within our huge retical for them to be taking lots of damage. Theoretically, when he was 2m away and had half the retical the red dot should have still been taking massive damage. we want our retical to be an accurate description of our dispersion. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
Audacious Mandate Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:51:00 - [133] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Audacious Mandate wrote: +1 for the video, as a new Heavy it's very helpful (also explains how I was reliably getting HS at about 20 meters). I am curious though why anyone would want dispersal to fill the entire cone? Yes, it would give you more of a shotgun effect at close range, but at effective range the same number of bullets filling a larger area would do less damage on whoever you hit. I like the aiming the way it is now, we just need a more representative reticle. When I created this alt it was because I kept seeing threads about the poor damage of the HMG; yet despite that I ran across quite a few (not all) Heavies who could shred people very effectively with it. Maybe it's because I got used to playing with more accurate weapons like the sniper rifle, but I prefer accuracy. Edit: sorry for the wall:) Agreed We don't need a smaller reticle. What we want is when someone is within our huge retical for them to be taking lots of damage. Theoretically, when he was 2m away and had half the retical the red dot should have still been taking massive damage. we want our retical to be an accurate description of our dispersion. I agree it should be accurate, I don't think the dispersion should be as great as the current reticle size as this would nerf it at range.
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 490	Posted - 2013.11.14 19:07:00 - [134] - Quote Audacious Mandate wrote: MassiveNine wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Audacious Mandate wrote: +1 for the video, as a new Heavy it's very helpful (also explains how I was reliably getting HS at about 20 meters). I am curious though why anyone would want dispersal to fill the entire cone? Yes, it would give you more of a shotgun effect at close range, but at effective range the same number of bullets filling a larger area would do less damage on whoever you hit. I like the aiming the way it is now, we just need a more representative reticle. When I created this alt it was because I kept seeing threads about the poor damage of the HMG; yet despite that I ran across quite a few (not all) Heavies who could shred people very effectively with it. Maybe it's because I got used to playing with more accurate weapons like the sniper rifle, but I prefer accuracy. Edit: sorry for the wall:) Agreed We don't need a smaller reticle. What we want is when someone is within our huge retical for them to be taking lots of damage. Theoretically, when he was 2m away and had half the retical the red dot should have still been taking massive damage. we want our retical to be an accurate description of our dispersion. I agree it should be accurate, I don't think the dispersion should be as great as the current reticle size as this would nerf it at range. Well if the dispersion actually functioned correctly as you fire the retical gets tighter and thus more accurate dispersion. There is nothing wrong with the retical, Im sorry you feel that way but lets move on to the real issue. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 474	Posted - 2013.11.14 19:22:00 - [135] - Quote hmmm.target in center of circle= dead target... target thats any where else within circle = big waste of ammo. i think this is about right where it is right now. although im not sure if we can do something like this with out putting it in to op range. since the heavies hmg base total damage is around 7k. which is in fact extremely high. higher than all the other guns total damage per clip in game. aside from that a change for the hmg would be nice. if the bullet spread is increased to cover a larger area it could become weakened due to missed shots making its effective range shorter. but if we increase accuracy/ precision the hmg could become too powerful at range. meaning a potential damage nerf could happen to it. i dont feel the hmg is underpowered in any way on "paper" i just think its the player using it at this point. as it still has the ability of tearing anything apart that gets within its optimal. i dont feel the hmg needs any massive precision or accuracy at med to long range. because then the hmg would probably become dominate over alot of the other weaponry save for snipers.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 203	Posted - 2013.11.14 19:27:00 - [136] - Quote George Moros wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: I've read dozens of HMG threads and not one previously said that the problem was that HMG did not fire in a cone as the reticule suggested. Now we have proof of exactly what the problem is and CCP are looking into it. So props to them. This is just one I found with quick search. I remember at least a couple more. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94513 Nice find!
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 620	Posted - 2013.11.14 20:12:00 - [137] - Quote If the HMG where the have the damage fill the circle it would not lose any range. The beginning test shows the the circle tightens enough for it to have the target become bigger than the circle. Anyone wanting to use it farther than 30 meters would have to use ADS and crouch as CCP intended. The close quarters nature of the weapon creates a need for the bullets to fill the spread. This will help en CQC. The spread is not big enough for the player to lose a significant amount of damage, even at ranges farther than 30 meters. As it stands no matter how close or far your target is if you are not centered you lose 70 - 100% of your damage. Weapons that require pin point accuracy like the laser rifle or the sniper do not need you to be at 30 meters or less where it would be nearly impossible to have your target on the dot for the full engagement. All argument that increasing the damage to fill the circle is a bad thing are completely invalid because 80% of the HMG population, specially the new ones, used the HMG with the idea that damage was being applied everywhere within the circle. Eve suggesting that ADS and crouching were necessary to reduce spread and hit the target better. My experiments showed that the only gain from ADS and Crouching was a tightening of a spread that is not being a used by the weapon. Therefore we can only conclude that making bullets fill the spread will serve to make the play style that most of us thought the weapon had become a reality. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1282	Posted - 2013.11.14 20:18:00 - [138] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: George Moros wrote: This is just one I found with quick search. I remember at least a couple more. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94513 That's science for you. Credit doesn't go to the guy who actually discovers something, but to the person who makes it widely known. I'll be sure to mention Master in the same breath as Ghaz any time this comes up in the future. His thread confirms we've been dealing with this for quite a while... I think the date of his post is evidence that a change possibly occurred with the range mechanic updates in Uprising 1.2. That is, assuming it hasn't always been this way. I believe it has been the way it is now since Uprising 1.0 "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 491	Posted - 2013.11.14 20:41:00 - [139] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: If the HMG where the have the damage fill the circle it would not lose any range. The beginning test shows the the circle tightens enough for it to have the target become bigger than the circle. Anyone wanting to use it farther than 30 meters would have to use ADS and crouch as CCP intended. The close quarters nature of the weapon creates a need for the bullets to fill the spread. This will help en CQC. The spread is not big enough for the player to lose a significant amount of damage, even at ranges farther than 30 meters. As it stands no matter how close or far your target is if you are not centered you lose 70 - 100% of your damage. Weapons that require pin point accuracy like the laser rifle or the sniper do not need you to be at 30 meters or less where it would be nearly impossible to have your target on the dot for the full engagement. All argument that increasing the damage to fill the circle is a bad thing are completely invalid because 80% of the HMG population, specially the new ones, used the HMG with the idea that damage was being applied everywhere within the circle. Eve suggesting that ADS and crouching were necessary to reduce spread and hit the target better. My experiments showed that the only gain from ADS and Crouching was a tightening of a spread that is not being a used by the weapon. Therefore we can only conclude that making bullets fill the spread will serve to make the play style that most of us thought the weapon had become a reality. BOOM! Knowledge motha fckas Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
Toby Flenderson research lab 107	Posted - 2013.11.14 21:43:00 - [140] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: VIDEO!!! Dust 514 - Heavy Machine Gun accuracy Hello guys, There are lots of heavies that you talk to about their heavy machine gun. When Asking whats wrong with it, a lot of them say that it feels sort of inaccurate, the range is bad, the spread is too much etc etc. People who don't use it would say things Like, "you should crouch and Aim Down Sites" and in all fairness it does help but, just a bit. The real reason that the heavy machine gun feels so under powered is that it's too accurate. The damage is centered on a point that is as small as the point on the laser rifle's "Aim down sights". So even if you aim down sights or have the target inside your spread at all times, chances are you are not going to deal any worthwhile damage unless you have the target centered. I could talk about this for ages and I still wouldn't make believers out of the most of you so why not a video. NEWS!! CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. Thank you CCP for answering . I hope the video helps the DEVS and the Heavy community alike. I disagree with arguments that say that making the damage fill the circle will make the weapon lose damage because most of the HMG population, specially the new ones, used the HMG with the idea that damage was being applied everywhere within the circle. Even suggesting that ADS and crouching were necessary to reduce spread and hit the target better. My experiments showed that the only gain from ADS and Crouching was a tightening of a spread that is not being a used by the weapon. Therefore we can only conclude that making bullets fill the spread will serve to make the play style that most of us thought the weapon had become a reality. Nice post, this is actually exactly the kind of post I hope to see when I read the forums and I rarely see them. I agree with you last point about the "spread" tightening when crouched but I think that there is a very minor advantage to this: It makes it easier to find the center of the "spread". Lining up an enemy with the center of a small circle is much easier than lining them up in a large circle. However, crouching leaves the Heavy much more vulnerable to attack so it could be argued that it does more harm than good. I think I would still crouch knowing it had no effect other than making it easier to aim the center of the circle but I don't play as a Heavy much. I'm sure others would disagree.

Audacious Mandate Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.11.14 21:51:00 - [141] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: If the HMG where the have the damage fill the circle it would not lose any range. The beginning test shows the the circle tightens enough for it to have the target become bigger than the circle. Anyone wanting to use it farther than 30 meters would have to use ADS and crouch as CCP intended. The close quarters nature of the weapon creates a need for the bullets to fill the spread. This will help en CQC. The spread is not big enough for the player to lose a significant amount of damage, even at ranges farther than 30 meters. As it stands no matter how close or far your target is if you are not centered you lose 70 - 100% of your damage. Weapons that require pin point accuracy like the laser rifle or the sniper do not need you to be at 30 meters or less where it would be nearly impossible to have your target on the dot for the full engagement. All argument that increasing the damage to fill the circle is a bad thing are completely invalid because 80% of the HMG population, specially the new ones, used the HMG with the idea that damage was being applied everywhere within the circle. Eve suggesting that ADS and crouching were necessary to reduce spread and hit the target better. My experiments showed that the only gain from ADS and Crouching was a tightening of a spread that is not being a used by the weapon. Therefore we can only conclude that making bullets fill the spread will serve to make the play style that most of us thought the weapon had become a reality. Not having had the opportunity in combat to test the range vs percentage of reticle filled by opponent (I'm usually busy trying not to die to ARs); I bow to your test results sir. Incidentally, at what range does the reticle become larger than the target?
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1161	Posted - 2013.11.14 22:05:00 - [142] - Quote Audacious Mandate wrote: Not having had the opportunity in combat to test the range vs percentage of reticle filled by opponent (I'm usually busy trying not to die to ARs); I bow to your test results sir. Incidentally, at what range does the reticle become larger than the target? For reference, in the first example of Ghaz's video, his target was standing at 23m. Before pulling the trigger, I'd estimate his target filled 20-30% of the aiming reticule. After a second of firing, he filled the majority of it. (my guestimation: 65-80%). Seems about right to me for how I think it should work, if damage were to actually be linked to how much the target fills the reticule. I'd maybe make it a little tighter so a target filled 75% at 30m. I'd go for anything at all over the current mechanics in game, though... ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2302	Posted - 2013.11.14 22:20:00 - [143] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. Getting my PS4 in 7 hours. This is your deadline for making me not a big sad face.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 624	Posted - 2013.11.14 22:22:00 - [144] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Audacious Mandate wrote: Not having had the opportunity in combat to test the range vs percentage of reticle filled by opponent (I'm usually busy trying not to die to ARs); I bow to your test results sir. Incidentally, at what range does the reticle become larger than the target? For reference, in the first example of Ghaz's video, his target was standing at 23m. Before pulling the trigger, I'd estimate his target filled 20-30% of the aiming reticule. After a second of firing, he filled the majority of it. (my guestimation: 65-80%). Seems about right to me for how I think it should work, if damage were to actually be linked to how much the target fills the reticule. I'd maybe make it a little tighter so a target filled 75% at 30m. I'd go for anything at all over the current mechanics in game, though... IF you go to test two, it shows that if left on, the spread reduces to be smaller than the target if given the time to reach full spread reduction. The specific time of test 2 is second 51 Plasma Cannon Advocate
Audacious Mandate Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.11.14 22:47:00 - [145] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: IF you go to test two, it shows that if left on, the spread reduces to be smaller than the target if given the time to reach full spread reduction. The specific time of test 2 is second 51 Much obliged, watching on my phone it appeared he was signifigantly closer.
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2313	Posted - 2013.11.15 04:39:00 - [146] - Quote 20 minutes. Still sad.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 630	Posted - 2013.11.15 04:44:00 - [147] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: 20 minutes. Still sad. You get PS4 in 20 minutes I hope CCP answers BEFORE then xD Plasma Cannon Advocate
Cosgar ParagonX 7784	Posted - 2013.11.15 04:47:00 - [148] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: 20 minutes. Still sad. Isn't 1.7 already content locked? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 630	Posted - 2013.11.15 04:50:00 - [149] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: 20 minutes. Still sad. Isn't 1.7 already content locked? Yes but we are just waiting for a response on what the DEVs think about how this is working. At least I'm not waiting for a fix at the moment, just a bit of info on their opinions. The HMG being so underwhelming in light of all other light weapons raises some big questions about gameplay, specially when you see heavys using AR's and SCR all the time instead of using the HMG Plasma Cannon Advocate
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz 168	Posted - 2013.11.15 05:26:00 - [150] - Quote You need to test the AR vs HMG. Proto vs Proto. Do a common build. Do one with outhead shots and do one without. Rage should very also. 10m 20m 30m 40m 50m. This would help alot!!! Good thing Dust514 is free. I would have returned it along time ago.

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 630	Posted - 2013.11.15 06:17:00 - [151] - Quote HMG trumps AR 1v1 on a straight shoot at 30 meters or less. The problem comes when the target so moving since the HMG is currently working like a laser rifle it is extremely difficult to keep the target pointed for full damage. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2313	Posted - 2013.11.15 06:19:00 - [152] - Quote Well PSN is basically saying FU to everyone with a PS4 right now. So I have a PS4, but I'm still sad. So much sadness. Morose, really.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1455	Posted - 2013.11.15 12:20:00 - [153] - Quote .... Any word on this? The answer is "ForgeGun"... doesnt matter what the question is...
boba's fetta Operation Clone Shield 116	Posted - 2013.11.15 12:47:00 - [154] - Quote i stopped using the hmg way back when we got the respec. recently when i see a heavy i pull out my smg and chrge right at them while moving side to side and the really sad part about it? i won 9/10 this is why my heavyies have ar's. would love a reson to spec into the hmg.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1369	Posted - 2013.11.15 13:43:00 - [155] - Quote Man sometimes I question CCP and how they do things. This has been a knwon issue ever since the first few weeks of uprising, and it's just NOW getting the DEVs attention. I will be adding this to my list of most important threads sometime soon. Link is in my signature. Feel free to post there with a link to this topic anyways so that I don't forget. Links: List of Important Topics I make logistics videos!
Rei Shepard Spectre II 970	Posted - 2013.11.15 14:18:00 - [156] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: VIDEO!!! Dust 514 - Heavy Machine Gun accuracy Hello guys, There are lots of heavies that you talk to about their heavy machine gun. When Asking whats wrong with it, a lot of them say that it feels sort of inaccurate, the range is bad, the spread is too much etc etc. People who don't use it would say things Like, "you should crouch and Aim Down Sites" and in all fairness it does help but, just a bit. The real reason that the heavy machine gun feels so under powered is that it's too accurate. The damage is centered on a point that is as small as the point on the laser rifle's "Aim down sights". So even if you aim down sights or have the target inside your spread at all times, chances are you are not going to deal any worthwhile damage unless you have the target centered. I could talk about this for ages and I still wouldn't make believers out of the most of you so why not a video. NEWS!! CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. Thank you CCP for answering . I hope the video helps the DEVS and the Heavy community alike. I disagree with arguments that say that making the damage fill the circle will make the weapon lose damage because most of the HMG population, specially the new ones, used the HMG with the idea that damage was being applied everywhere within the circle. Even suggesting that ADS and crouching were necessary to reduce spread and hit the target better. My experiments showed that the only gain from ADS and Crouching was a tightening of a spread that is not being a used by the weapon. Therefore we can only conclude that making bullets fill the spread will serve to make the play style that most of us thought the weapon had become a reality. Who would have thought the closer to the center of your reticule, the more damage is applied .../facepalm Too much rocket science for my brain to grasp :) Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 316	Posted - 2013.11.15 14:22:00 - [157] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Well PSN is basically saying FU to everyone with a PS4 right now. So I have a PS4, but I'm still sad. So much sadness. Morose, really. Such sad. Many tragedy. 'Insert witty signature here'
jamstar saa187 the third day Public Disorder. 59	Posted - 2013.11.15 14:55:00 - [158] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Who would have thought the closer to the center of your reticule, the more damage is applied .../facepalm Too much rocket science for my brain to grasp :) maybe the point of the OP is lost, it's not so much that 'the closer you get to the center, the more damage is applied' , the point is that practically NO damage is done unless the target is DEAD CENTER, or at least until the tiny center pin is on the target. hence so many Laser rifle comparisons. this is absolutely not what the weapon was promoted as, and if this was the intended mechanic of the gun, why the large reticle size?
GTA V FTW 186	Posted - 2013.11.15 15:51:00 - [159] - Quote jamstar saa187 wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Who would have thought the closer to the center of your reticule, the more damage is applied .../facepalm Too much rocket science for my brain to grasp :) maybe the point of the OP is lost, it's not so much that 'the closer you get to the center, the more damage is applied' , the point is that practically NO damage is done unless the target is DEAD CENTER, or at least until the tiny center pin is on the target. hence so many Laser rifle comparisons. this is absolutely not what the weapon was promoted as, and if this was the intended mechanic of the gun, why the large reticle size? Because CCP Devs love large reticles. CCP = FPS noobs Meh, broke game will always be broke.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 16:10:00 - [160] - Quote jamstar saa187 wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Who would have thought the closer to the center of your reticule, the more damage is applied .../facepalm Too much rocket science for my brain to grasp :) maybe the point of the OP is lost, it's not so much that 'the closer you get to the center, the more damage is applied' , the point is that practically NO damage is done unless the target is DEAD CENTER, or at least until the tiny center pin is on the target. hence so many Laser rifle comparisons. this is absolutely not what the weapon was promoted as, and if this was the intended mechanic of the gun, why the large reticle size? Try moving, then there's spread

MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 504	Posted - 2013.11.15 16:14:00 - [161] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: jamstar saa187 wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Who would have thought the closer to the center of your reticule, the more damage is applied .../facepalm Too much rocket science for my brain to grasp :) maybe the point of the OP is lost, it's not so much that 'the closer you get to the center, the more damage is applied' , the point is that practically NO damage is done unless the target is DEAD CENTER, or at least until the tiny center pin is on the target. hence so many Laser rifle comparisons. this is absolutely not what the weapon was promoted as, and if this was the intended mechanic of the gun, why the large reticle size? Try moving, then there's spread lies all lies. Stop spreading false information it's people like you who have made it the way it is now so just stfu and step aside b!tch. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 16:38:00 - [162] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: Dexter307 wrote: jamstar saa187 wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Who would have thought the closer to the center of your reticule, the more damage is applied .../facepalm Too much rocket science for my brain to grasp :) maybe the point of the OP is lost, it's not so much that 'the closer you get to the center, the more damage is applied' , the point is that practically NO damage is done unless the target is DEAD CENTER, or at least until the tiny center pin is on the target. hence so many Laser rifle comparisons. this is absolutely not what the weapon was promoted as, and if this was the intended mechanic of the gun, why the large reticle size? Try moving, then there's spread lies all lies. Stop spreading false information it's people like you who have made it the way it is now so just stfu and step aside b!tch. Guessing you don't use the HMG then :p HMG is only a laser if you stand still, adding spread would just nerf the HMG even more, and I'm tired of the dumb ideas people give for the HMG. "Lower it's ROF so it's more accurate!" HMG skill changed from reduced heat build up to less kick (accually happened) And now widen it's spread :/ Also my HMG does a great job at killing. If you can't kill people with it then you just suck.
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 504	Posted - 2013.11.15 16:41:00 - [163] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: MassiveNine wrote: Dexter307 wrote: jamstar saa187 wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Who would have thought the closer to the center of your reticule, the more damage is applied .../facepalm Too much rocket science for my brain to grasp :) maybe the point of the OP is lost, it's not so much that 'the closer you get to the center, the more damage is applied' , the point is that practically NO damage is done unless the target is DEAD CENTER, or at least until the tiny center pin is on the target. hence so many Laser rifle comparisons. this is absolutely not what the weapon was promoted as, and if this was the intended mechanic of the gun, why the large reticle size? Try moving, then there's spread lies all lies. Stop spreading false information it's people like you who have made it the way it is now so just stfu and step aside b!tch. Guessing you don't use the HMG then :p HMG is only a laser if you stand still, adding spread would just nerf the HMG even more, and I'm tired of the dumb ideas people give for the HMG. "Lower it's ROF so it's more accurate!" HMG skill changed from reduced heat build up to less kick (accually happened) And now widen it's spread :/ Umm... I've been using the HMG exclusively since codex, so I think I'd know a little bit about the weapon. IF there was actual dispersion when moving then I'd be able to hit strafing players easier, but as we all know that's not the case. Like I said before, our large retical SHOULD be an accurate description of what our dispersion pattern is, and if someone's body is anywhere within my retical they should take damage, but as we now have proof of it doesn't, ever, unless you have pinpoint accuracy 100% of the time. We don't want the spread widened, we actually want our bullets to spread the way they are supposed to, so that I can actually hit multiple enemies at once, as I should be able to, instead of having to focus on a single person until they are dead and then move to the next, that's not how a SUPPRESSION weapon is supposed to work. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 16:45:00 - [164] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: Dexter307 wrote: MassiveNine wrote: Dexter307 wrote: jamstar saa187 wrote: maybe the point of the OP is lost, it's not so much that 'the closer you get to the center, the more damage is applied' , the point is that practically NO damage is done unless the target is DEAD CENTER, or at least until the tiny center pin is on the target. hence so many Laser rifle comparisons. this is absolutely not what the weapon was promoted as, and if this was the intended mechanic of the gun, why the large reticle size? Try moving, then there's spread lies all lies. Stop spreading false information it's people like you who have made it the way it is now so just stfu and step aside b!tch. Guessing you don't use the HMG then :p HMG is only a laser if you stand still, adding spread would just nerf the HMG even more, and I'm tired of the dumb ideas people give for the HMG. "Lower it's ROF so it's more accurate!" HMG skill changed from reduced heat build up to less kick (accually happened) And now widen it's spread :/ Umm... I've been using the HMG exclusively since codex, so I think I'd know a little bit about the weapon. IF there was actual dispersion when moving then I'd be able to hit strafing players easier, but as we all know that's not the case. Then you just suck because I can hit strafing people just fine
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1166	Posted - 2013.11.15 16:47:00 - [165] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Guessing you don't use the HMG then :p HMG is only a laser if you stand still, adding spread would just nerf the HMG even more, and I'm tired of the dumb ideas people give for the HMG. You have nothing whatsoever to support your point. Even though there is video evidence sitting in the first post of this thread against it, your argument is: "Nuh uh." It's not convincing. In the first 10 seconds of Ghaz's video he's moving and shooting the gun, and the HMG is working exactly as he describes in his tests. The proof against your point is right there already. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 16:52:00 - [166] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Guessing you don't use the HMG then :p HMG is only a laser if you stand still, adding spread would just nerf the HMG even more, and I'm tired of the dumb ideas people give for the HMG. You have nothing whatsoever to support your point. Even though there is video evidence sitting in the first post of this thread against it, your argument is: "Nuh uh." It's not convincing. In the first 10 seconds of Ghaz's video he's moving and shooting the gun, and the HMG is working exactly as he describes in his tests. The proof against your point is right there already. When a gun shoots at 2000 rpm and your 10m away of course your going to kill people
GTA V FTW 187	Posted - 2013.11.15 16:55:00 - [167] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Umm... I've been using the HMG exclusively since codex, so I think I'd know a little bit about the weapon. IF there was actual dispersion when moving then I'd be able to hit strafing players easier, but as we all know that's not the case. Then you just suck because I can hit strafing people just fine[/quote] So your like the Devs you like large reticles as well, interesting. CCP = FPS noobs Meh, broke game will always be broke.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1288	Posted - 2013.11.15 16:56:00 - [168] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: a bunch of nonsense You have absolutely no Idea what you're talking about. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:02:00 - [169] - Quote GTA V FTW wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Umm... I've been using the HMG exclusively since codex, so I think I'd know a little bit about the weapon. IF there was actual dispersion when moving then I'd be able to hit strafing players easier, but as we all know that's not the case. Then you just suck because I can hit strafing people just fine So your like the Devs you like large reticles as well, interesting. I don't really care about the reticle, it's the actual spread that matters
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 504	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:03:00 - [170] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Guessing you don't use the HMG then :p HMG is only a laser if you stand still, adding spread would just nerf the HMG even more, and I'm tired of the dumb ideas people give for the HMG. You have nothing whatsoever to support your point. Even though there is video evidence sitting in the first post of this thread against it, your argument is: "Nuh uh." It's not convincing. In the first 10 seconds of Ghaz's video he's moving and shooting the gun, and the HMG is working exactly as he describes in his tests. The proof against your point is right there already. When a gun shoots at 2000 rpm and your 10m away of course your going to kill people Cant you see that you're the idiot here? Just accept it, give up, and move on. You're like a bad politician on a good day. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic

Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:04:00 - [171] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: I have absolutely no Idea what I'm talking about. Fixed
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1288	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:05:00 - [172] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: GTA V FTW wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Umm... I've been using the HMG exclusively since codex, so I think I'd know a little bit about the weapon. IF there was actual dispersion when moving then I'd be able to hit strafing players easier, but as we all know that's not the case. Then you just suck because I can hit strafing people just fine So your like the Devs you like large reticles as well, interesting. I don't really care about the reticle, it's the actual spread that matters There is no spread! It doesn't matter what range the enemy is at, you must have the tiny dot of the reticule on target or you do zero damage. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:05:00 - [173] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Guessing you don't use the HMG then :p HMG is only a laser if you stand still, adding spread would just nerf the HMG even more, and I'm tired of the dumb ideas people give for the HMG. You have nothing whatsoever to support your point. Even though there is video evidence sitting in the first post of this thread against it, your argument is: "Nuh uh." It's not convincing. In the first 10 seconds of Ghaz's video he's moving and shooting the gun, and the HMG is working exactly as he describes in his tests. The proof against your point is right there already. When a gun shoots at 2000 rpm and your 10m away of course your going to kill people Cant you see that you're the idiot here? Just accept it, give up, and move on. You're like a bad politician on a good day. Kid, the adults are talking, go take a nap.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1288	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:05:00 - [174] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: I'm a dipshit Fixed "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 504	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:08:00 - [175] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: MassiveNine wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Guessing you don't use the HMG then :p HMG is only a laser if you stand still, adding spread would just nerf the HMG even more, and I'm tired of the dumb ideas people give for the HMG. You have nothing whatsoever to support your point. Even though there is video evidence sitting in the first post of this thread against it, your argument is: "Nuh uh." It's not convincing. In the first 10 seconds of Ghaz's video he's moving and shooting the gun, and the HMG is working exactly as he describes in his tests. The proof against your point is right there already. When a gun shoots at 2000 rpm and your 10m away of course your going to kill people Cant you see that you're the idiot here? Just accept it, give up, and move on. You're like a bad politician on a good day. Kid, the adults are talking, go take a nap. lol. using that line once didn't feel like enough for you did it? Now you're just an idiot, trying to be a troll, but failing. Here's a foot, why don't you insert into mouth and sit in the corner, and let the people who ACTUALLY know what they are talking about and not spread ******** lies talk now Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:08:00 - [176] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: GTA V FTW wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Umm... I've been using the HMG exclusively since codex, so I think I'd know a little bit about the weapon. IF there was actual dispersion when moving then I'd be able to hit strafing players easier, but as we all know that's not the case. Then you just suck because I can hit strafing people just fine So your like the Devs you like large reticles as well, interesting. I don't really care about the reticle, it's the actual spread that matters There is no spread! It doesn't matter what range the enemy is at, you must have the tiny dot of the reticule on target or you do zero damage. Then how come I can hit people when it's not on them? Even in the video you can see when he starts shooting he hits them without having the small dot on them. When you move the spread is almost as wide as standing still and the beginning of when you start shooting.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1288	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:08:00 - [177] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: MassiveNine wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Guessing you don't use the HMG then :p HMG is only a laser if you stand still, adding spread would just nerf the HMG even more, and I'm tired of the dumb ideas people give for the HMG. You have nothing whatsoever to support your point. Even though there is video evidence sitting in the first post of this thread against it, your argument is: "Nuh uh." It's not convincing. In the first 10 seconds of Ghaz's video he's moving and shooting the gun, and the HMG is working exactly as he describes in his tests. The proof against your point is right there already. When a gun shoots at 2000 rpm and your 10m away of course your going to kill people Cant you see that you're the idiot here? Just accept it, give up, and move on. You're like a bad politician on a good day. Kid, the adults are talking, go take a nap. Seriously, why are you trying to argue with something that the OP has provided video evidence of and CCP has Blue tagged confirming exactly what we are all telling you. Don't be so dense. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
GTA V FTW 188	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:10:00 - [178] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: I'm a dipshit who likes to spread large reticles. Fixed Fixed your fix. CCP = FPS noobs Meh, broke game will always be broke.
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 504	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:10:00 - [179] - Quote [quote=Master Jaraiy Seriously, why are you trying to argue with something that the OP has provided video evidence of and CCP has Blue tagged confirming exactly what we are all telling you. Don't be so dense.[/quote] You know I heard this great saying once that dex should consider, it goes: Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:11:00 - [180] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Im upset that I don't have an argument so I'm going to act like a child Fixed

Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1288	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:13:00 - [181] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: GTA V FTW wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Umm... I've been using the HMG exclusively since codex, so I think I'd know a little bit about the weapon. IF there was actual dispersion when moving then I'd be able to hit strafing players easier, but as we all know that's not the case. Then you just suck because I can hit strafing people just fine So your like the Devs you like large reticles as well, interesting. I don't really care about the reticle, it's the actual spread that matters There is no spread! It doesn't matter what range the enemy is at, you must have the tiny dot of the reticule on target or you do zero damage. Then how come I can hit people when it's not on them? Even in the video you can see when he starts shooting he hits them without having the small dot on them. When you move the spread is almost as wide as standing still and the beginning of when you start shooting. It doesn't matter how big the reticule is or is not. Damage is not being dealt within the entire area of the reticule. When you move, and the center dot touches your target, you do damage, when the center dot moves of target, you do not do damage. Further evidence of this lies within the fact that the Reticule does not even chang color indicating damage is or can be dealt unless the center dot is on a target. You can be aiming at someone at range, and encompass the entire enemy inside the reticule, but unless the center dot touches them, your reticule stays yellow and you deal no damage. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:13:00 - [182] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: [quote=Master Jaraiy Seriously, why are you trying to argue with something that the OP has provided video evidence of and CCP has Blue tagged confirming exactly what we are all telling you. Don't be so dense. You know I heard this great saying once that dex should consider, it goes: Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.[/quote] Hey, I just remembered I can hide all your posts One less kid I have to deal with :) P.s. I'm hiding your posts because your not trying to argue, your just throwing insults around
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1288	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:15:00 - [183] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: plugs ears and covers eyes LALALALALA what you say or try to show me doesn't matter because I cannot be wrong "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1288	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:16:00 - [184] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Hey, I just remembered I can hide all your posts One less kid I have to deal with :) P.s. I'm hiding your posts because your not trying to argue, your just throwing insults around Sooo, why exactly are you "trying to argu"? Is it just for the sake of arguing? You should probably seek help for that. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:18:00 - [185] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Hey, I just remembered I can hide all your posts One less kid I have to deal with :) P.s. I'm hiding your posts because your not trying to argue, your just throwing insults around Sooo, why exactly are you "trying to argu"? Is it just for the sake of arguing? You should probably seek help for that. HMG has spread while moving. It's not hard to understand.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1288	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:22:00 - [186] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Hey, I just remembered I can hide all your posts One less kid I have to deal with :) P.s. I'm hiding your posts because your not trying to argue, your just throwing insults around Sooo, why exactly are you "trying to argu"? Is it just for the sake of arguing? You should probably seek help for that. HMG has spread while moving. It's not hard to understand. If it doesn't have spread while standing still, what makes you think it does while you move. Ohhhh I see! So, where is the "Accuracy Rating while Moving" Stat listed again? Dude, the Accuracy of the weapon doesn't change just because you move. It simply means that you are dealing damage across a horizontal line because you are moving. The instant you stop moving, you stop dealing damage across a horizontal line. If I grab a laser rifle and strafe while shooting 4 red dots all in a line, does that mean the Laser has dispersion? Of course not that is preposterous. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 605	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:24:00 - [187] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Hey, I just remembered I can hide all your posts One less kid I have to deal with :) P.s. I'm hiding your posts because your not trying to argue, your just throwing insults around Sooo, why exactly are you "trying to argu"? Is it just for the sake of arguing? You should probably seek help for that. HMG has spread while moving. It's not hard to understand. If it doesn't have spread while standing still, what makes you think it does while you move. Ohhhh I see! So, where is the "Accuracy Rating while Moving" Stat listed again? Dude, the Accuracy of the weapon doesn't change just because you move. It simply means that you are dealing damage across a horizontal line because you are moving. "the Accuracy of the weapon doesn't change just because you move" facepalm
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 505	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:30:00 - [188] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Hey, I just remembered I can hide all your posts One less kid I have to deal with :) P.s. I'm hiding your posts because your not trying to argue, your just throwing insults around Sooo, why exactly are you "trying to argu"? Is it just for the sake of arguing? You should probably seek help for that. HMG has spread while moving. It's not hard to understand. If it doesn't have spread while standing still, what makes you think it does while you move. Ohhhh I see! So, where is the "Accuracy Rating while Moving" Stat listed again? Dude, the Accuracy of the weapon doesn't change just because you move. It simply means that you are dealing damage across a horizontal line because you are moving. The instant you stop moving, you stop dealing damage across a horizontal line. If I grab a laser rifle and strafe while shooting 4 red dots all in a line, does that mean the Laser has dispersion? Of course not that is preposterous. We should just stop paying attention to the special needs kid here and lets get back to the real argument. It's obvious dexter is dumb so what's the point, ya know? Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1288	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:32:00 - [189] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Hey, I just remembered I can hide all your posts One less kid I have to deal with :) P.s. I'm hiding your posts because your not trying to argue, your just throwing insults around Sooo, why exactly are you "trying to argu"? Is it just for the sake of arguing? You should probably seek help for that. HMG has spread while moving. It's not hard to understand. If it doesn't have spread while standing still, what makes you think it does while you move. Ohhhh I see! So, where is the "Accuracy Rating while Moving" Stat listed again? Dude, the Accuracy of the weapon doesn't change just because you move. It simply means that you are dealing damage across a horizontal line because you are moving. "the Accuracy of the weapon doesn't change just because you move" facepalm Dude, really. Moving does nothing to the Dispersion of the weapon itself. Moving in and of itself Disperses your DPS across a horizontal line because you are moving! Take the AR for instance. When an enemy is running, and I begin firing at his side, I can stay perfectly on target as long as I strafe and keep him in my sight. My accuracy is not effected at all. I lose no DPS. Bullets do not simply disperse more because I'm moving. Bullets do, however, disperse more the longer I hold the trigger down with the AR. This is, of course, opposite of the HMG. As you fire, the HMG becomes even more accurate. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 606	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:44:00 - [190] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Dude, the Accuracy of Dude, really. Moving does nothing to the Dispersion of the weapon itself. Moving in and of itself Disperses your DPS across a horizontal line because you are moving! Take the AR for instance. When an enemy is running, and I begin firing at his side, I can stay perfectly on target as long as I strafe and keep him in my sight. My accuracy is not effected at all. I lose no DPS. Bullets do not simply disperse more because I'm moving. Bullets do, however, disperse more the longer I hold the trigger down with the AR. This is, of course, opposite of the HMG. As you fire, the HMG becomes even more accurate. (Ugh, 5 quote limit ) We'll I don't know what to say. I've tested it and it has spread only while moving. If you don't believe me that's fine.

MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 505	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:46:00 - [191] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dude, the Accuracy of Dude, really. Moving does nothing to the Dispersion of the weapon itself. Moving in and of itself Disperses your DPS across a horizontal line because you are moving! Take the AR for instance. When an enemy is running, and I begin firing at his side, I can stay perfectly on target as long as I strafe and keep him in my sight. My accuracy is not effected at all. I lose no DPS. Bullets do not simply disperse more because I'm moving. Bullets do, however, disperse more the longer I hold the trigger down with the AR. This is, of course, opposite of the HMG. As you fire, the HMG becomes even more accurate. (Ugh, 5 quote limit ) We'll I don't know what to say. I've tested it and it has spread only while moving. If you don't believe me that's fine. He doesn't believe you because you didn't test anything and are just spreading lies. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3979	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:48:00 - [192] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dude, the Accuracy of Dude, really. Moving does nothing to the Dispersion of the weapon itself. Moving in and of itself Disperses your DPS across a horizontal line because you are moving! Take the AR for instance. When an enemy is running, and I begin firing at his side, I can stay perfectly on target as long as I strafe and keep him in my sight. My accuracy is not effected at all. I lose no DPS. Bullets do not simply disperse more because I'm moving. Bullets do, however, disperse more the longer I hold the trigger down with the AR. This is, of course, opposite of the HMG. As you fire, the HMG becomes even more accurate. (Ugh, 5 quote limit ) We'll I don't know what to say. I've tested it and it has spread only while moving. If you don't believe me that's fine. No one believes you cause your wrong! But thanks for bumping the thread
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 606	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:51:00 - [193] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dude, the Accuracy of Dude, really. Moving does nothing to the Dispersion of the weapon itself. Moving in and of itself Disperses your DPS across a horizontal line because you are moving! Take the AR for instance. When an enemy is running, and I begin firing at his side, I can stay perfectly on target as long as I strafe and keep him in my sight. My accuracy is not effected at all. I lose no DPS. Bullets do not simply disperse more because I'm moving. Bullets do, however, disperse more the longer I hold the trigger down with the AR. This is, of course, opposite of the HMG. As you fire, the HMG becomes even more accurate. (Ugh, 5 quote limit ) We'll I don't know what to say. I've tested it and it has spread only while moving. If you don't believe me that's fine. No one believes you cause your wrong! But thanks for bumping the thread Have you tested spread while moving? If not then don't bother talking.
CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP 147	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:52:00 - [194] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dude, the Accuracy of Dude, really. Moving does nothing to the Dispersion of the weapon itself. Moving in and of itself Disperses your DPS across a horizontal line because you are moving! Take the AR for instance. When an enemy is running, and I begin firing at his side, I can stay perfectly on target as long as I strafe and keep him in my sight. My accuracy is not effected at all. I lose no DPS. Bullets do not simply disperse more because I'm moving. Bullets do, however, disperse more the longer I hold the trigger down with the AR. This is, of course, opposite of the HMG. As you fire, the HMG becomes even more accurate. (Ugh, 5 quote limit ) We'll I don't know what to say. I've tested it and it has spread only while moving. If you don't believe me that's fine. Get out your smart phone, record your test, and then post it. Then we might take you serious. Or how bout just STFU and GTFO of this thread and let the adults talk you clown. DUST514 I love the dream but not the current product. Dusters - WhenGäó CCP - SoonGäó
emm kay Ultramarine Corp 39	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:52:00 - [195] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: mmmmkay. You called, sir?
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3980	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:55:00 - [196] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dude, the Accuracy of Dude, really. Moving does nothing to the Dispersion of the weapon itself. Moving in and of itself Disperses your DPS across a horizontal line because you are moving! Take the AR for instance. When an enemy is running, and I begin firing at his side, I can stay perfectly on target as long as I strafe and keep him in my sight. My accuracy is not effected at all. I lose no DPS. Bullets do not simply disperse more because I'm moving. Bullets do, however, disperse more the longer I hold the trigger down with the AR. This is, of course, opposite of the HMG. As you fire, the HMG becomes even more accurate. (Ugh, 5 quote limit ) We'll I don't know what to say. I've tested it and it has spread only while moving. If you don't believe me that's fine. No one believes you cause your wrong! But thanks for bumping the thread Have you tested spread while moving? If not then don't bother talking. Just for fun aim at a wall and you see the spread the HMG should have however the damage is only given at the pinpoint reticle. And yes it looks as though thread is spread when moving . However as the video clearly shows there is no damage being done except at dead point center.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 606	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:55:00 - [197] - Quote CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dude, the Accuracy of Dude, really. Moving does nothing to the Dispersion of the weapon itself. Moving in and of itself Disperses your DPS across a horizontal line because you are moving! Take the AR for instance. When an enemy is running, and I begin firing at his side, I can stay perfectly on target as long as I strafe and keep him in my sight. My accuracy is not effected at all. I lose no DPS. Bullets do not simply disperse more because I'm moving. Bullets do, however, disperse more the longer I hold the trigger down with the AR. This is, of course, opposite of the HMG. As you fire, the HMG becomes even more accurate. (Ugh, 5 quote limit ) We'll I don't know what to say. I've tested it and it has spread only while moving. If you don't believe me that's fine. Get out your smart phone, record your test, and then post it. Then we might take you serious. Or how bout just STFU and GTFO of this thread and let the adults talk you clown. You know what? Fine, I give up. Go ahead and nerf the HMG. I just hope we get a respec soon so I can spec into ARs, those never seem to get nerfed.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 606	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:56:00 - [198] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Dexter307 wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Dude, the Accuracy of Dude, really. Moving does nothing to the Dispersion of the weapon itself. Moving in and of itself Disperses your DPS across a horizontal line because you are moving! Take the AR for instance. When an enemy is running, and I begin firing at his side, I can stay perfectly on target as long as I strafe and keep him in my sight. My accuracy is not effected at all. I lose no DPS. Bullets do not simply disperse more because I'm moving. Bullets do, however, disperse more the longer I hold the trigger down with the AR. This is, of course, opposite of the HMG. As you fire, the HMG becomes even more accurate. (Ugh, 5 quote limit ) We'll I don't know what to say. I've tested it and it has spread only while moving. If you don't believe me that's fine. No one believes you cause your wrong! But thanks for bumping the thread Have you tested spread while moving? If not then don't bother talking. Just for fun aim at a wall and you see the spread the HMG should have however the damage is only given at the pinpoint reticle. And yes it looks as though there is spread when moving . However as the video clearly shows there is no damage being done except at dead point center. He's standing still in the video though
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3980	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:59:00 - [199] - Quote What you are seeing is the latancy of where you were firing your bullets a second ago while moving, same thing happens when shooting from a tank but is much more noticeable. Standing still or moving is not going to change the actuall hit scan of the weapon it is the same standing still or moving.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 606	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:02:00 - [200] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: What you are seeing is the latancy of where you were firing your bullets a second ago while moving, same thing happens when shooting from a tank but is much more noticeable. Standing still or moving is not going to change the actuall hit scan of the weapon it is the same standing still or moving. I tested it moving forward and backwards so the small dot never touched the enemy but I still killed him

HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. 3981	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:14:00 - [201] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: What you are seeing is the latancy of where you were firing your bullets a second ago while moving, same thing happens when shooting from a tank but is much more noticeable. Standing still or moving is not going to change the actuall hit scan of the weapon it is the same standing still or moving. I tested it moving forward and backwards so the small dot never touched the enemy but I still killed him Well even a camera video would help us determine what you are seeing cause I just tried it too, and there is the tiniest of spread that bounces a bit but not to the size of the reticle as it was in chromosome and before. Originally the weapon worked as a huge cone some what tight at the guns firing point but widening as fired further out down field Making it a beast up close cause it was doing more damage , the further down field the bullets were spread to far to be effective. For the longest time in closed beta each reset we were given I would never spend points in sharpshooter because it made you more effective at longer ranges at the sacrifice of tighting your spread in close quarters to be less effective. Then chromosome claim along and the sharpshooter skill was like giving god mode to us heavies cause we could actually shoot AR across the map in their range. So what i beilive has happened is that they have tweaked the stats to much, when they eliminated the sharpshooter the first week of uprising the HMG was completely crippled and was absolutely useless. Then they put a hot fix in and gave us some range back but as most heavies would tell you in never felt quite right and we couldn't quite put our finger on it until this video came out and clearly shows the problem. We need to go back to the cone system of firing prior to uprising, and maybe even chromosome cause that is when they may have changed the weopons core firing mechanics.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4493	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:42:00 - [202] - Quote nice video. I like that the little white pixel = the hit point of the HMG...no wonder I thought the dispersion was crap hahaha "BUT HE WAS IN MY CONE OF FIRE!!" - No, he was out of your pixel of fire ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1167	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:51:00 - [203] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Dexter307 wrote: I tested it moving forward and backwards so the small dot never touched the enemy but I still killed him Well even a camera video would help us determine what you are seeing cause I just tried it too, and there is the tiniest of spread that bounces a bit but not to the size of the reticle as it was in chromosome and before. I'll have to give a shot and post results, too. Just as a note guys: Whether Dexter is right or wrong, the people who first pointed out that the HMG was too accurate before Ghaz posted his video got a similar treatment of "OMG STFU Noob, you have no idea what you're doing." I don't believe Dexter, but I figure it may as well be worth testing instead of flaming away. Taste's got the right idea. Other than that: Taste, I think you may be correct about when the mechanics were changed as well. I didn't want to trust my memory, since Ghaz's video confirmed what I believed was wrong, but I swear it worked different at some point in Dust's history as well. Maybe Uprising 1.0 was the moment when it happened. Because I swear it was different in Chromosome... ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
ER-Bullitt 591	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:10:00 - [204] - Quote CCP's fix will be to make the reticule smaller... lol Thanks for the video
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1563	Posted - 2013.11.15 20:15:00 - [205] - Quote I figured out on my own, through use in the field, that the circle was meaningless. I donGÇÖt even see the circle any more. I have blocked it out mentally. All I see is that little dot. I have found that the only thing that Aiming Down the sights does for you is reduce your tracking speed so it is easier to aim at mid range. Crouching however, seems to dramatically increase damage and effective range. My understanding was that this was due to reduced dispersion. It is looking like the bullets that drift away from center due to dispersion simply disappear, where as before they would do damage within the circle.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1563	Posted - 2013.11.15 20:31:00 - [206] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: There really is almost no damage applied even when crouched or really close. That damage is mostly being applied to the center dot. I did the tests over range and everything but there really wasn't any point into putting it in there becuase it was redundant footage. I will say this though, crouching and aiming down sights reduced kick considerably making the user think that the weapon is actually getting more accurate. Let me rephrase: is there a way to test whether crouching actually increases DPS, or whether the effect of the reticule "tightening" after firing for a second has a confirmable and/or significant effect on DPS? This is all given the fact that you need the center dot on target to do any damage whatsoever. ED: For more clarification: My theory is that CCP is simulating dispersion by mathematically reducing damage based on the fraction of the aiming reticule filled by the target. You need to have it centered to do any damage at all, yes, but I'm curious if applied DPS increases the more the target fills the reticule. I've had this theory for a while now, but can't really figure out a way to test it. I don't believe HMG DPS is reduced simply by a range-to-target calculation the same way the AR gets treated. I believe another factor is involved. Crouching just reduces the the large spread (circle) giving a sense of more accuracy. What makes it more accurate is that the gun's kick isn't throwing your gun off target. At least that's what tests have shown me. The close range footage is exactly how it would work when crouched. Your damage is still centered and not affected by how much "spread" the gun has. I suppose this could be the case if Aim Assist is not active for the HMG. That would explain why the HMG did not get the sudden boost in effectiveness that all the other automatic weapons did with 1.4. If Aim Assist was active, the different in kick would not be enough to break Aim Assist if the player was half way decent and compensating for the kick.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 637	Posted - 2013.11.15 21:22:00 - [207] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: There really is almost no damage applied even when crouched or really close. That damage is mostly being applied to the center dot. I did the tests over range and everything but there really wasn't any point into putting it in there becuase it was redundant footage. I will say this though, crouching and aiming down sights reduced kick considerably making the user think that the weapon is actually getting more accurate. Let me rephrase: is there a way to test whether crouching actually increases DPS, or whether the effect of the reticule "tightening" after firing for a second has a confirmable and/or significant effect on DPS? This is all given the fact that you need the center dot on target to do any damage whatsoever. ED: For more clarification: My theory is that CCP is simulating dispersion by mathematically reducing damage based on the fraction of the aiming reticule filled by the target. You need to have it centered to do any damage at all, yes, but I'm curious if applied DPS increases the more the target fills the reticule. I've had this theory for a while now, but can't really figure out a way to test it. I don't believe HMG DPS is reduced simply by a range-to-target calculation the same way the AR gets treated. I believe another factor is involved. Crouching just reduces the the large spread (circle) giving a sense of more accuracy. What makes it more accurate is that the gun's kick isn't throwing your gun off target. At least that's what tests have shown me. The close range footage is exactly how it would work when crouched. Your damage is still centered and not affected by how much "spread" the gun has. I suppose this could be the case if Aim Assist is not active for the HMG. That would explain why the HMG did not get the sudden boost in effectiveness that all the other automatic weapons did with 1.4. If Aim Assist was active, the different in kick would not be enough to break Aim Assist if the player was half way decent and compensating for the kick. Aim assist is active on The HMG. The only problem is that the point which has to be on target for damage to be applied is too small. I have footage f this if you need it. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 386	Posted - 2013.11.15 22:36:00 - [208] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: RL machineguns are an orgasmic experience to operate, wielding the dust514's HMG is quite the opposite. Complaint to Devs - HMG: N33ds Moar Orgazm.
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2313	Posted - 2013.11.16 02:46:00 - [209] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: nice video. I like that the little white pixel = the hit point of the HMG...no wonder I thought the dispersion was crap hahaha "BUT HE WAS IN MY CONE OF FIRE!!" - No, he was out of your pixel of fire You know, we've been killing with this terrible weapon for a long time now. I think we're basically the best players in Dust and everyone should send us 100 mil.
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3985	Posted - 2013.11.16 06:56:00 - [210] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: nice video. I like that the little white pixel = the hit point of the HMG...no wonder I thought the dispersion was crap hahaha "BUT HE WAS IN MY CONE OF FIRE!!" - No, he was out of your pixel of fire You know, we've been killing with this terrible weapon for a long time now. I think we're basically the best players in Dust and everyone should send us 100 mil. Agreed this is for us! When we were the bastards the AR legends gave respect too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg7X5_K7LhE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ghost Kaisar R 0 N 1 N 869	Posted - 2013.11.16 09:14:00 - [211] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Im upset that I don't have an argument so I'm going to act like a child Fixed And how is this any more mature? "All war is deception." "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious" -Sun Tzu
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 642	Posted - 2013.11.16 13:19:00 - [212] - Quote No News CCP?? Plasma Cannon Advocate
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3985	Posted - 2013.11.16 15:01:00 - [213] - Quote This has to be the most blatant problem in dust at the moment, most everyone is finally aware how obvious the problem with the HMG is. the least you can do CCP is to let us know you will be fixing this soon Gäó The truth is it has been like this since uprising 1.0
TuFar Gon 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 42	Posted - 2013.11.16 15:36:00 - [214] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: This has to be the most blatant problem in dust at the moment, most everyone is finally aware how obvious the problem with the HMG is. the least you can do CCP is to let us know you will be fixing this soon Gäó The truth is it has been like this since uprising 1.0 so very correct,,and as the saying goes "the proof is in the pudding" . THE HMG HAS BEEN BROKEN SINCE THE DEPLOYMENT OF UPRISING. Many threads have been posted since that time by heavy's WHO KNOW WHAT THEIR TALKIN ABOUT.....CCP,,by now you've read the threads,,so,,the question we heavy's have for you is WHAT WILL YOU DO NOW?? WILL WE BE PUT ON THE BACK-BURNER AGAIN?? Its on you ccp,,,WE ARE WAITING.
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3985	Posted - 2013.11.16 17:57:00 - [215] - Quote Well guys I got a very nice reply back from petition I sent in with this video. CCP is aware of the HMG issue. "of the bullet dispersion not fully expanding along the 'cone' of the Heavy" And they are working on it. Thank you for your promt reply on this ccp I am sure now it will be fixed. Yea! Great work OP!
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4509	Posted - 2013.11.16 18:57:00 - [216] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Well guys I got a very nice reply back from the petition I sent in with this video. CCP is aware of the HMG issue. "of the bullet dispersion not fully expanding along the 'cone' of the Heavy recticle" And they are "actively" working on it. Thank you for your promt reply on this ccp I am sure now it will be fixed. Yea! Great work OP! Nice. After how many months the HMG might finally be good again. Hopefully people will go back to the class and more diversity will be brought back to DUST. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 649	Posted - 2013.11.16 19:37:00 - [217] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. If you like 'this kind of feedback', please, set up a range where corps can test out weapons and mechanics in a controlled setting. Just saying...
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 649	Posted - 2013.11.16 19:40:00 - [218] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: This has to be the most blatant problem in dust at the moment, most everyone is finally aware how obvious the problem with the HMG is. the least you can do CCP is to let us know you will be fixing this soon Gäó The truth is it has been like this since uprising 1.0 Wait, you are saying that heaving a very accurate weapon that you have to aim and control instead of just pointing in the direction of reddots is the 'most blatant problem in dust at the moment'? You are sure you don't want to think about this and reword it?
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 396	Posted - 2013.11.16 19:46:00 - [219] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Well guys I got a very nice reply back from the petition I sent in with this video. CCP is aware of the HMG issue. "of the bullet dispersion not fully expanding along the 'cone' of the Heavy recticle" And they are "actively" working on it. Thank you for your promt reply on this ccp I am sure now it will be fixed. Personally, I think you guys shot yourself in the foot. Dont ask for MORE dispersion... you should have asked for a better reticle! You're gonna die worse, if they actually "fix" this. your range (which you didnt know you had, but you do NOW..) will be screwed.
Kira Lannister Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1960	Posted - 2013.11.16 19:47:00 - [220] - Quote I knew it, it is pathetically easy to outstrafe a heavy. They are aiming a sniper scope at a high strafing target. To be honest the HMG should be an easy mode spray and pray beast when it comes to cqc. Just like its little brother the smg. "The Ancient Templars will guard fearlessly the people, the land and the heavens of the empire." Book of Exiles 1:3

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 643	Posted - 2013.11.16 20:27:00 - [221] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: Well guys I got a very nice reply back from the petition I sent in with this video. CCP is aware of the HMG issue. "of the bullet dispersion not fully expanding along the 'cone' of the Heavy recticle" And they are "actively" working on it. Thank you for your promt reply on this ccp I am sure now it will be fixed. Personally, I think you guys shot yourself in the foot. Dont ask for MORE dispersion... you should have asked for a better reticle! You're gonna die worse, if they actually "fix" this. your range (which you didnt know you had, but you do NOW..) will be screwed. The truth is that the HMG was never designed for combat at ranges farther than 30 meters. It's fast drop i damage out of this zone makes the weapon extremely ineffective at farther than optimal ranges. Having to use a weapon with the same spread as a sniper rifle in CQC is akin to trying to use nova knives long range. It just doesn't work. As it stand the enemy can outstrafe a heavy at close and long ranges easily. The meager damage applied at range is horrile even at 40 meters away where no matter what you do AR, SCR and even SMG will out DPS you do to better hit to shots fire ratios. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1567	Posted - 2013.11.16 21:12:00 - [222] - Quote I tried this last night, and it made me a believer. I already knew that you had to use the dot to aim rather than the big circle, but somehow knowing that the HMG does not do any damage if the dot is not perfectly centered on your opponent made the difference. Before, part of my mind must have still thought that close would be good enough, so with kick I must have let the dot slip to the edge sometimes. But now, when I wield the HMG like a scalpel, it makes all the difference. Now I need to apologize to Cat Merc for calling bull **** when he referenced this and claimed the HMG had no dispersion. I was wrong and he was right.
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2315	Posted - 2013.11.16 21:18:00 - [223] - Quote Unfortunately, knowing how to use it properly does not it a superior weapon to its competition.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4514	Posted - 2013.11.16 22:09:00 - [224] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: The truth is that the HMG was never designed for combat at ranges farther than 30 meters. It's fast drop i damage out of this zone makes the weapon extremely ineffective at farther than optimal ranges. Having to use a weapon with the same spread as a sniper rifle in CQC is akin to trying to use nova knives long range. It just doesn't work. As it stand the enemy can outstrafe a heavy at close and long ranges easily. The meager damage applied at range is horrile even at 40 meters away where no matter what you do AR, SCR and even SMG will out DPS you do to better hit to shots fire ratios. Never designed for combat further than 30m? Says who? Far as I know, before Uprising the HMG was handling that range with ease, and no heavy was complaining about the HMG. Uprising came along, HMGs got nerfed to crap, and assault players rejoiced! When last have you seen a "THE HMG IS OP!!!" thread? ...exactly. People need to drop this crap about "HEAVIES ARE ONLY FOR CQC! LEARN TO PLAY YOUR ROLE!" Again, heavies were a formidable enemy when they were pushing the front lines to an objective. Not camping a hack like they are doing now. HMGs were nerfed because Assault players couldn't 1v1 a heavy, and everyday was a QQ thread about it during Chromosome. They got their wish in Uprising, and heavies were basically forced to camp objectives, and people just took it. People just assumed "Well, heavies are only for CQC, so the HMG is perfect." Big mistake, and we're still paying for it to this day because people didn't make enough noise. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 644	Posted - 2013.11.16 22:15:00 - [225] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Unfortunately, knowing how to use it properly does not it a superior weapon to its competition. This is a considerable Fact. When You use the HMG perfectly (Very rarely) you can get kills but it's overwhelming how you have to keep a dot ceneterewd as if you where using a sniper rifle. The HMG makes me think a lot about My plasma cannon which I have profi 5 in. It doesn't matter how good you are the weapon will never be competitive with it. The drawbacks are just too great and can't even be overcome with skill because they are hard coded into the weapon. The HMG is at this stage for the time being. Even if used correctly it's still being outgunned by guns that are supposed to be inferior to it at it's range because this drawback is hard coded. No amount of skill can compensate for having to use a weapon with no spread up close. Plasma Cannon Advocate
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 644	Posted - 2013.11.16 22:26:00 - [226] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: The truth is that the HMG was never designed for combat at ranges farther than 30 meters. It's fast drop i damage out of this zone makes the weapon extremely ineffective at farther than optimal ranges. Having to use a weapon with the same spread as a sniper rifle in CQC is akin to trying to use nova knives long range. It just doesn't work. As it stand the enemy can outstrafe a heavy at close and long ranges easily. The meager damage applied at range is horrile even at 40 meters away where no matter what you do AR, SCR and even SMG will out DPS you do to better hit to shots fire ratios. Never designed for combat further than 30m? Says who? Far as I know, before Uprising the HMG was handling that range with ease, and no heavy was complaining about the HMG. Uprising came along, HMGs got nerfed to crap, and assault players rejoiced! When last have you seen a "THE HMG IS OP!!!" thread? ...exactly. People need to drop this crap about "HEAVIES ARE ONLY FOR CQC! LEARN TO PLAY YOUR ROLE!" Again, heavies were a formidable enemy when they were pushing the front lines to an objective. Not camping a hack like they are doing now. HMGs were nerfed because Assault players couldn't 1v1 a heavy, and everyday was a QQ thread about it during Chromosome. They got their wish in Uprising, and heavies were basically forced to camp objectives, and people just took it. People just assumed "Well, heavies are only for CQC, so the HMG is perfect." Big mistake, and we're still paying for it to this day because people didn't make enough noise. I agree with what you say, The purpose for me saying it like that is that CCP wanted the weapon to be used at those ranges in uprising. I do understand that before uprising HMG's where boss and to be honest they should always be boss. The drawbacks of using a heavy suit are many like no equipment slot and slow sprint speed letting you take more fire than normal. Even then there are further drawback to using HMG. You need gunnery 5 as well and there is no militia variant making people take sort of a leap of faith when speccing into it. That leap of faith backfires when they notice it's not even a competitive weapon. So yes. You are correct in saying That a heavy shouldn't be limited to CQC. I agree. But My statement just reflect the current playstyle CCP wants for the weapon. If it where for me I would have it have the same range of the AR because it's an HMG. It's supposed to be KING and bow to no one. I want to reiterate on what I said. I do not share the view of CCP in how they balanced the weapon. The statement was to show that even at the range CCP made the weapon function it's not functioning. They made the dropoff at 30 meters so for all intents and purposes after the balance in uprising the weapon was never intended to function properly beyond that range. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Thaos Jasso Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:39:00 - [227] - Quote One thing that I would like to see tested is the actual DPS of the HMG. Take a standard HMG, stand so that the other suit takes up the entire aiming circle and count how bullets it takes to kill them. The stats of the weapon state that it has an accuracy of 61%, and I take that to mean that 61% of the bullets hit the small dot, but what happens to the other 39%? I have seen several threads that complain about the Hit detection on the HMG is horrible, and that it feels like a 1/3 bullets never hit. Could this be where this issue is coming from?
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 645	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:41:00 - [228] - Quote Thaos Jasso wrote: One thing that I would like to see tested is the actual DPS of the HMG. Take a standard HMG, stand so that the other suit takes up the entire aiming circle and count how bullets it takes to kill them. The stats of the weapon state that it has an accuracy of 61%, and I take that to mean that 61% of the bullets hit the small dot, but what happens to the other 39%? I have seen several threads that complain about the Hit detection on the HMG is horrible, and that it feels like a 1/3 bullets never hit. Could this be where this issue is coming from? I hope that if you watch the video it will clear things up. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Thaos Jasso Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.11.17 07:02:00 - [229] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Thaos Jasso wrote: One thing that I would like to see tested is the actual DPS of the HMG. Take a standard HMG, stand so that the other suit takes up the entire aiming circle and count how bullets it takes to kill them. The stats of the weapon state that it has an accuracy of 61%, and I take that to mean that 61% of the bullets hit the small dot, but what happens to the other 39%? I have seen several threads that complain about the Hit detection on the HMG is horrible, and that it feels like a 1/3 bullets never hit. Could this be where this issue is coming from? I hope that if you watch the video it will clear things up. I have watched the video, what I mean is on paper the HMG has a DPS of around 566.66 (17 per bullet time 2000 rpm divided by 60 seconds) The test I would like to see is at point blank range with the small white dot center chest with the enemy taking up the entire larger circle. By counting how many bullets it takes to kill a suit (amarr would be best because of the shields and armor equal) we could take the total HP of the suit divided by the number of rounds it takes to kill and see it is even close to 17. I have had several occasions where I had someone dead to rights (they were hacking a terminal, sniper, looking the other way) and it seemed that it took forever to kill them. The question that I have is if the 61% accuracy are the only bullets even when the white dot is center chest and any dispersion should still hit the target, or do the 39% disappear even in a perfect control test?
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 645	Posted - 2013.11.17 07:25:00 - [230] - Quote Thaos Jasso wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Thaos Jasso wrote: One thing that I would like to see tested is the actual DPS of the HMG. Take a standard HMG, stand so that the other suit takes up the entire aiming circle and count how bullets it takes to kill them. The stats of the weapon state that it has an accuracy of 61%, and I take that to mean that 61% of the bullets hit the small dot, but what happens to the other 39%? I have seen several threads that complain about the Hit detection on the HMG is horrible, and that it feels like a 1/3 bullets never hit. Could this be where this issue is coming from? I hope that if you watch the video it will clear things up. I have watched the video, what I mean is on paper the HMG has a DPS of around 566.66 (17 per bullet time 2000 rpm divided by 60 seconds) The test I would like to see is at point blank range with the small white dot center chest with the enemy taking up the entire larger circle. By counting how many bullets it takes to kill a suit (amarr would be best because of the shields and armor equal) we could take the total HP of the suit divided by the number of rounds it takes to kill and see it is even close to 17. I have had several occasions where I had someone dead to rights (they were hacking a terminal, sniper, looking the other way) and it seemed that it took forever to kill them. The question that I have is if the 61% accuracy are the only bullets even when the white dot is center chest and any dispersion should still hit the target, or do the 39% disappear even in a perfect control test? Completely understand. I will do a pass over and do another video on The HMG passing over these sort of details. Thanks for the suggestions Plasma Cannon Advocate

GENERAL FCF Sentinels of New Eden 9	Posted - 2013.11.17 08:46:00 - [231] - Quote Well done! You finally got feedback from CCP! I know your telling the truth because I found that out by myself too. I dissmissed those facts and convinced myself "if its going to be this way then the damage needs to be increased". But your statement has brought me full circle, back to were I was in the beginning. Thx:) ....Now if we can just get some feedback of stronger Sentinel suits and various factions of em.
NoxMort3m D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 105	Posted - 2013.11.17 09:09:00 - [232] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I've known this for a while now. It's how the game works...basically the damage is calculated based on whether or not the tiny dot in the center is red. Other weapons (like the assault rifle) have a larger area that will turn it red. If that small dot was bigger (say, the size of the actual reticule?) maybe the HMG would work like it's supposed to. sigh -_- BTW, put the link at the top of your post. That way people click on it first, and let them know it's the video, or to watch it first before reading. Its ridiculuous how pin point small the recticle is for the hmg and how it must be center mass to do more damage than a cotton ball is even more messed up . Plus 1 for heavy kind
GENERAL FCF Sentinels of New Eden 9	Posted - 2013.11.17 09:11:00 - [233] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: The truth is that the HMG was never designed for combat at ranges farther than 30 meters. It's fast drop i damage out of this zone makes the weapon extremely ineffective at farther than optimal ranges. Having to use a weapon with the same spread as a sniper rifle in CQC is akin to trying to use nova knives long range. It just doesn't work. As it stand the enemy can outstrafe a heavy at close and long ranges easily. The meager damage applied at range is horrile even at 40 meters away where no matter what you do AR, SCR and even SMG will out DPS you do to better hit to shots fire ratios. Never designed for combat further than 30m? Says who? Far as I know, before Uprising the HMG was handling that range with ease, and no heavy was complaining about the HMG. Uprising came along, HMGs got nerfed to crap, and assault players rejoiced! When last have you seen a "THE HMG IS OP!!!" thread? ...exactly. People need to drop this crap about "HEAVIES ARE ONLY FOR CQC! LEARN TO PLAY YOUR ROLE!" Again, heavies were a formidable enemy when they were pushing the front lines to an objective. Not camping a hack like they are doing now. HMGs were nerfed because Assault players couldn't 1v1 a heavy, and everyday was a QQ thread about it during Chromosome. They got their wish in Uprising, and heavies were basically forced to camp objectives, and people just took it. People just assumed "Well, heavies are only for CQC, so the HMG is perfect." Big mistake, and we're still paying for it to this day because people didn't make enough noise. I agree with what you say, The purpose for me saying it like that is that CCP wanted the weapon to be used at those ranges in uprising. I do understand that before uprising HMG's where boss and to be honest they should always be boss. The drawbacks of using a heavy suit are many like no equipment slot and slow sprint speed letting you take more fire than normal. Even then there are further drawback to using HMG. You need gunnery 5 as well and there is no militia variant making people take sort of a leap of faith when speccing into it. That leap of faith backfires when they notice it's not even a competitive weapon. So yes. You are correct in saying That a heavy shouldn't be limited to CQC. I agree. But My statement just reflect the current playstyle CCP wants for the weapon. If it where for me I would have it have the same range of the AR because it's an HMG. It's supposed to be KING and bow to no one. I want to reiterate on what I said. I do not share the view of CCP in how they balanced the weapon. The statement was to show that even at the range CCP made the weapon function it's not functioning. They made the dropoff at 30 meters so for all intents and purposes after the balance in uprising the weapon was never intended to function properly beyond that range. Bro I couldn't have said this better myself! CCP ^ THIS STATEMENT IS TRUTH AND NOT A RANT PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE REVERSE WHAT YOU NERFED! WE NEED SHARPSHOOTER ALONG WITH DISPERSION! PLEASE AND THANK YOU:)
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 695	Posted - 2013.11.17 09:47:00 - [234] - Quote I think it was around Uprising 1.3, but I remember squadding up with a Heavy by the name of "Red Dragonfly." We were in a Domination match and this guy was beasting. With only an ADV basic Heavy frame and an MH-82, he went somewhere around 55-3 in that game while I went 21-10 in a similar fitting. Thinking about it now, he had be one hell of a good shot to attain a score like that with such a gimped weapon. i haz noe gun game..... runs back to Assault MD and rep tool
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1174	Posted - 2013.11.17 15:57:00 - [235] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: Thinking about it now, he had be one hell of a good shot to attain a score like that with such a gimped weapon. i haz noe gun game..... With the way it's working now, players with truly amazing aim probably have no problem with it. I talk to nixnova about the problems with the HMG when I squad with him on occasion. He agrees to an extend, then goes on to post 40-2 rounds with his Boundless. I guess if you're able to keep a laser pointer aimed at a crack-addicted fly already, there's no issue. It's just not how I think the gun should work. Oh well. Guess I need to GET GUD... ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 652	Posted - 2013.11.17 20:11:00 - [236] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: I think it was around Uprising 1.3, but I remember squadding up with a Heavy by the name of "Red Dragonfly." We were in a Domination match and this guy was beasting. With only an ADV basic Heavy frame and an MH-82, he went somewhere around 55-3 in that game while I went 21-10 in a similar fitting. Thinking about it now, he had be one hell of a good shot to attain a score like that with such a gimped weapon. i haz noe gun game..... runs back to Assault MD and rep tool Thing where a bit different back then also. A heavy with 1.5k HP didn't melt in less than a second to any at scr that would look at them. He had time to put in the work to get those kills. Right now heavy don't even have time to react because of how fast everything kills us. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 650	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:00:00 - [237] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: The truth is that the HMG was never designed for combat at ranges farther than 30 meters. It's fast drop i damage out of this zone makes the weapon extremely ineffective at farther than optimal ranges. Having to use a weapon with the same spread as a sniper rifle in CQC is akin to trying to use nova knives long range. It just doesn't work. As it stand the enemy can outstrafe a heavy at close and long ranges easily. The meager damage applied at range is horrile even at 40 meters away where no matter what you do AR, SCR and even SMG will out DPS you do to better hit to shots fire ratios. Never designed for combat further than 30m? Says who? Far as I know, before Uprising the HMG was handling that range with ease, and no heavy was complaining about the HMG. Uprising came along, HMGs got nerfed to crap, and assault players rejoiced! When last have you seen a "THE HMG IS OP!!!" thread? ...exactly. People need to drop this crap about "HEAVIES ARE ONLY FOR CQC! LEARN TO PLAY YOUR ROLE!" Again, heavies were a formidable enemy when they were pushing the front lines to an objective. Not camping a hack like they are doing now. HMGs were nerfed because Assault players couldn't 1v1 a heavy, and everyday was a QQ thread about it during Chromosome. They got their wish in Uprising, and heavies were basically forced to camp objectives, and people just took it. People just assumed "Well, heavies are only for CQC, so the HMG is perfect." Big mistake, and we're still paying for it to this day because people didn't make enough noise. When I play with corp heavies they are awesome at locking objectives, and they still score at the top while doing it. I don't know if they are just good players or if they are an example of how heavies should be used this build (which is obviously effective in this given case) or both. As a non-HMG user, I hated HMG in Chromo. There are plenty of videos on youtube of that - you could see ppl w/o talent running around and raking kills just by pointing in the right direction and squeezing a trigger. I sure hope we don't see heavies rushing across open field in first wave of attack and successfully taking a letter.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 650	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:07:00 - [238] - Quote NoxMort3m wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: I've known this for a while now. It's how the game works...basically the damage is calculated based on whether or not the tiny dot in the center is red. Other weapons (like the assault rifle) have a larger area that will turn it red. If that small dot was bigger (say, the size of the actual reticule?) maybe the HMG would work like it's supposed to. sigh -_- BTW, put the link at the top of your post. That way people click on it first, and let them know it's the video, or to watch it first before reading. Its ridiculuous how pin point small the recticle is for the hmg and how it must be center mass to do more damage than a cotton ball is even more messed up . Plus 1 for heavy kind At least in the video I did not see that it had to be pointing at the center of mass to do damage. From what I could tell, it must be dead center ANYWHERE on the target enemy to deal its damage. It's funny to me that Heavies are complaining about this. Ppl who used shotguns always knew that you deal minimal damage within circle reticle unless the reticle dead centered - ppl grumbled about it since it's a SG with spread but there was not a river of tears like this now with HMG. I think it's not fair that HMG went from god weapon in chromo to a regular weapon but I don't see a problem with weapons being just normal. CCP should just not make god weapons period, so that there is not a crowd of angry players when they take it away. I would agree that reticle on HMG is misleading and should be reworked.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 923	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:11:00 - [239] - Quote All I know is that the Scrambler Pistol can easily out DPS the HMG. Add in headshots and you have 4 times the DPS of a 100% accurate HMG. Nice big heads, too. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 351	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:19:00 - [240] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: NoxMort3m wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: I've known this for a while now. It's how the game works...basically the damage is calculated based on whether or not the tiny dot in the center is red. Other weapons (like the assault rifle) have a larger area that will turn it red. If that small dot was bigger (say, the size of the actual reticule?) maybe the HMG would work like it's supposed to. sigh -_- BTW, put the link at the top of your post. That way people click on it first, and let them know it's the video, or to watch it first before reading. Its ridiculuous how pin point small the recticle is for the hmg and how it must be center mass to do more damage than a cotton ball is even more messed up . Plus 1 for heavy kind At least in the video I did not see that it had to be pointing at the center of mass to do damage. From what I could tell, it must be dead center ANYWHERE on the target enemy to deal its damage. It's funny to me that Heavies are complaining about this. Ppl who used shotguns always knew that you deal minimal damage within circle reticle unless the reticle dead centered - ppl grumbled about it since it's a SG with spread but there was not a river of tears like this now with HMG. I think it's not fair that HMG went from god weapon in chromo to a regular weapon but I don't see a problem with weapons being just normal. CCP should just not make god weapons period, so that there is not a crowd of angry players when they take it away. I would agree that reticle on HMG is misleading and should be reworked. An HMG shouldnt be a regular weapon when it is an heavy weapon, whats the point then? The Ar weighs ten times less, but it is more powerfull and it shoots alot further, that is not logical. I personally are satisfied with the current spread, but it takes around 80 bullets for it to become accurate, and it overheats after 200 bullets, thats 120 bullets im supposed to suppress advancing enemies with. That does not sound like a very good machinegun to me. Livin' large!

Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2319	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:40:00 - [241] - Quote Using the HMG in Shadowfall I noticed some differences in its application that CCP might want to consider looking at, because the HMG in that game is actually legitimately difficult to use AND fun at the same time. First of all, it has pinpoint precision in that game as well. At the same time, however, it has EXTREME range on it. As you are firing, it becomes harder to turn the weapon so a strafing opponent will get under you very easily if you miscalculate from the start. However, if your opponent crosses into the stream of fire for even a moment he is basically turned into swiss cheese. This is the part that is honestly missing from Dust, the swiss cheese effect. I would recommend 1. Assault HMG -- Keep precision but give us a better crosshair, drastically increase damage, substantially increase range, decrease ability to turn the weapon while firing. This is more formulaic but it's a proven formula that works and is actually accepted. 2. Standard HMG -- Keep the range short, increase the spread, introduce stagger and shake effect upon bullet impact that makes it nearly impossible to fight against when trying to headbutt a heavy 1V1. 3. Burst HMG -- Keep mostly the same, though it may honestly require a slight damage buff to keep up with recent armor buffs, and to give it some appeal over the standard HMG's stagger effect.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 924	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:43:00 - [242] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Using the HMG in Shadowfall I noticed some differences in its application that CCP might want to consider looking at, because the HMG in that game is actually legitimately difficult to use AND fun at the same time. First of all, it has pinpoint precision in that game as well. At the same time, however, it has EXTREME range on it. As you are firing, it becomes harder to turn the weapon so a strafing opponent will get under you very easily if you miscalculate from the start. However, if your opponent crosses into the stream of fire for even a moment he is basically turned into swiss cheese. This is the part that is honestly missing from Dust, the swiss cheese effect. I would recommend 1. Assault HMG -- Keep precision but give us a better crosshair, drastically increase damage, substantially increase range, decrease ability to turn the weapon while firing. This is more formulaic but it's a proven formula that works and is actually accepted. 2. Standard HMG -- Keep the range short, increase the spread, introduce stagger and shake effect upon bullet impact that makes it nearly impossible to fight against when trying to headbutt a heavy 1V1. 3. Burst HMG -- Keep mostly the same, though it may honestly require a slight damage buff to keep up with recent armor buffs, and to give it some appeal over the standard HMG's stagger effect. CoD's LMGs have extreme range and precision in exchange for mobility, too, but CCP doesn't give a crap. Dust is the only FPS I can think of where MGs are fully automatic shotguns. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Krippling Inferno Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:44:00 - [243] - Quote Problem with HMG is it's not worth using over other guns, like, at all. AR's need a nerf, and perhaps scrambles to a smaller degree. Shotgun needs a buff, should be a 2-4 shotter. Mhmm. KFC.
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2319	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:49:00 - [244] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: NoxMort3m wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: I've known this for a while now. It's how the game works...basically the damage is calculated based on whether or not the tiny dot in the center is red. Other weapons (like the assault rifle) have a larger area that will turn it red. If that small dot was bigger (say, the size of the actual reticule?) maybe the HMG would work like it's supposed to. sigh -_- BTW, put the link at the top of your post. That way people click on it first, and let them know it's the video, or to watch it first before reading. Its ridiculuous how pin point small the recticle is for the hmg and how it must be center mass to do more damage than a cotton ball is even more messed up . Plus 1 for heavy kind At least in the video I did not see that it had to be pointing at the center of mass to do damage. From what I could tell, it must be dead center ANYWHERE on the target enemy to deal its damage. It's funny to me that Heavies are complaining about this. Ppl who used shotguns always knew that you deal minimal damage within circle reticle unless the reticle dead centered - ppl grumbled about it since it's a SG with spread but there was not a river of tears like this now with HMG. I think it's not fair that HMG went from god weapon in chromo to a regular weapon but I don't see a problem with weapons being just normal. CCP should just not make god weapons period, so that there is not a crowd of angry players when they take it away. I would agree that reticle on HMG is misleading and should be reworked. Heavy weapons are meant to be superior to regular weapons. We have an entire suit that sacrifices movement and equipment for the sake of holding a bigger weapon that packs a bigger punch. If it is a "regular" weapon it is completely worthless. Some things are meant to be better. This is one of them.
Krippling Inferno Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:14:00 - [245] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: NoxMort3m wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: I've known this for a while now. It's how the game works...basically the damage is calculated based on whether or not the tiny dot in the center is red. Other weapons (like the assault rifle) have a larger area that will turn it red. If that small dot was bigger (say, the size of the actual reticule?) maybe the HMG would work like it's supposed to. sigh -_- BTW, put the link at the top of your post. That way people click on it first, and let them know it's the video, or to watch it first before reading. Its ridiculuous how pin point small the recticle is for the hmg and how it must be center mass to do more damage than a cotton ball is even more messed up . Plus 1 for heavy kind At least in the video I did not see that it had to be pointing at the center of mass to do damage. From what I could tell, it must be dead center ANYWHERE on the target enemy to deal its damage. It's funny to me that Heavies are complaining about this. Ppl who used shotguns always knew that you deal minimal damage within circle reticle unless the reticle dead centered - ppl grumbled about it since it's a SG with spread but there was not a river of tears like this now with HMG. I think it's not fair that HMG went from god weapon in chromo to a regular weapon but I don't see a problem with weapons being just normal. CCP should just not make god weapons period, so that there is not a crowd of angry players when they take it away. I would agree that reticle on HMG is misleading and should be reworked. Heavy weapons are meant to be superior to regular weapons. We have an entire suit that sacrifices movement and equipment for the sake of holding a bigger weapon that packs a bigger punch. If it is a "regular" weapon it is completely worthless. Some things are meant to be better. This is one of them. Exactly. I don't see how most people here can say "you jus want to beh unbeatable n00b" when they're packing the gun that drops almost anything in 2 seconds. The HMG's only competitor for close range should be the shotgun, and as long as the range dmg/accuracy is decrease it will be fine.
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3989	Posted - 2013.11.21 21:53:00 - [246] - Quote I still have not seen any official comment in when they hope to fix this issue?
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 663	Posted - 2013.11.21 21:56:00 - [247] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: I still have not seen any official comment in when they hope to fix this issue? I think they might have either forgotten or don't have any new that will appease the community. In the latter I think they are playing it smart because if they say the wrong thing heavies will riot Plasma Cannon Advocate
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3990	Posted - 2013.11.21 22:01:00 - [248] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: I still have not seen any official comment in when they hope to fix this issue? I think they might have either forgotten or don't have any new that will appease the community. In the latter I think they are playing it smart because if they say the wrong thing heavies will riot I just tried the scrambler rifle last night...lulz I may never go back to being an hmg again this thing allows me to get ridiculous kills. And here I have been so frustrated playing with the HMG and this thing I can take out two if not three heavies side by side, in a light suit... Wow reminds me of pre uprising the way the HMG used to be
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 664	Posted - 2013.11.21 22:05:00 - [249] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: I still have not seen any official comment in when they hope to fix this issue? I think they might have either forgotten or don't have any new that will appease the community. In the latter I think they are playing it smart because if they say the wrong thing heavies will riot I just tried the scrambler rifle last night...lulz I may never go back to being an hmg again this thing allows me to get ridiculous kills. And here I have been so frustrated playing with the HMG and this thing I can take out two if not three heavies side by side, in a light suit... Wow reminds me of pre uprising the way the HMG used to be This dark days for the HMG. May the light shine upon it once more.... Hopefully Plasma Cannon Advocate
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1599	Posted - 2013.11.21 22:06:00 - [250] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: I just tried the scrambler rifle last night...lulz I may never go back to being an hmg again this thing allows me to get ridiculous kills. And here I have been so frustrated playing with the HMG and this thing I can take out two if not three heavies side by side, in a light suit... Wow reminds me of pre uprising the way the HMG used to be This is when you know that there is something wrong with the HMG.... When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!

Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2302	Posted - 2013.11.21 22:17:00 - [251] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. Do I need to post a video of your own game to show you how small blaster turrets are broken or small rails are programmed to miss targets as well?
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 981	Posted - 2013.11.21 22:47:00 - [252] - Quote This proves CCP has no idea how a weapon truly works. If I fire a chain gun similar to the one in dust it should travel on a given time line outward and eventually downward, not travel inward to a smaller point. The outer circle should produce a small of damage and as you get closer to the center the damage should increase. It is similar to a shotgun spread not an AR. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqDCCTCYTNI Enjoy the video. Do not eat the yellow snow
BABYLONSfalling 19	Posted - 2013.11.22 13:28:00 - [253] - Quote Any chance of a hotfix on this CCP or will it require something more substantial? I'm running out of puppies to strangle and kittens to drown. "Yeah, but Richie ain't here. Know why? Cause he's a chickenshit fucking pussy asshole." - Detective Gino Felino
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 668	Posted - 2013.11.22 13:34:00 - [254] - Quote BABYLONSfalling wrote: Any chance of a hotfix on this CCP or will it require something more substantial? I'm running out of puppies to strangle and kittens to drown. Man i have to say the will probably do a ninja fix. There are a lot of things that get done that way. One day it just works and everyone swears nothing changed but I am always on the lookout. Maybe they will just role it with 1.7 and not say a word and let people do the guessing. I dont mind though. BTW why would you drown kittens. I here they are good with duck sauce or made into pepper steak. Plasma Cannon Advocate
BABYLONSfalling 20	Posted - 2013.11.22 13:40:00 - [255] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: BABYLONSfalling wrote: Any chance of a hotfix on this CCP or will it require something more substantial? I'm running out of puppies to strangle and kittens to drown. Man i have to say the will probably do a ninja fix. There are a lot of things that get done that way. One day it just works and everyone swears nothing changed but I am always on the lookout. Maybe they will just role it with 1.7 and not say a word and let people do the guessing. I dont mind though. BTW why would you drown kittens. I here they are good with duck sauce or made into pepper steak. I find that the boiling water also serves to tenderize the meat. "Yeah, but Richie ain't here. Know why? Cause he's a chickenshit fucking pussy asshole." - Detective Gino Felino
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 669	Posted - 2013.11.22 13:45:00 - [256] - Quote BABYLONSfalling wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: BABYLONSfalling wrote: Any chance of a hotfix on this CCP or will it require something more substantial? I'm running out of puppies to strangle and kittens to drown. Man i have to say the will probably do a ninja fix. There are a lot of things that get done that way. One day it just works and everyone swears nothing changed but I am always on the lookout. Maybe they will just role it with 1.7 and not say a word and let people do the guessing. I dont mind though. BTW why would you drown kittens. I here they are good with duck sauce or made into pepper steak. I find that the boiling water also serves to tenderize the meat. Tender kitten strips... Plasma Cannon Advocate
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3995	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:17:00 - [257] - Quote I can not believe it took me so long to abandon the HMG. And abandon the supposed/most feared weapon so great it takes a special heavy suit, "that is slow in its waddle, short in its hop, cant bring any equipment, cant out run a grenade, is the biggest head on the block, has the side to side like first generation frogger", just to be able to wield the biggest farthest range most devastating weapon with such awesome fire power in the tiniest little laser spot on a cute little grouping that is damn deadly with pinpoint accuracy like a laser at 32.3641897 and 1/2 meters. Call Ripleys
jamstar saa187 the third day Public Disorder. 60	Posted - 2013.12.16 13:46:00 - [258] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: VIDEO!!! Dust 514 - Heavy Machine Gun accuracy can anybody (here's looking to you OP) confirm if this was fixed in 1.7? an by confirm i mean in a clear/scientific way similar to how the OP showed it was not working as intended with the video above. if not, please consider this as my request that another follow-up ('cough' XxGhazbaranxX 'Cough') test be conducted and results published if at all possible. it's obvious to me that the animations for the HMG have changed since 1.7, as we now have the blinding fire lights show going on where the cone (and pixel) should be, and the animation of the bullets shows a spread within the cone. but that doesn't mean that the bullets are actually behaving in that way does it? hence my request for further testing. cant do it myself as i'm nowhere near as tech savvy, and i dont know how to do the video capture stuff.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1266	Posted - 2013.12.16 14:03:00 - [259] - Quote jamstar saa187 wrote: cant do it myself as i'm nowhere near as tech savvy, and i dont know how to do the video capture stuff. I can't supply video proof, but from personal gameplay I can confirm the center dot still has to be on target to do damage. (Been getting a lot of practice in with the Republic Boundless HMG.) CCP has not done anything to the HMG except make it harder to see where you're aiming at mid-range. So...stealth nerf. Free disposable LAV was a stealth buff though, so I'd say 1.7 has been HMG neutral. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 200/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 771	Posted - 2013.12.16 14:44:00 - [260] - Quote Wouldn't it be great if HMGs had a 10% damage buff, an increase in range comparable to the max Sharpshooter skill of Chrome, and a working cone of dispersion?.. I just want Heavies to be feared again, even if slight. We're nothing more than slow moving target practice now. On another note, Scouts need love too.

Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2519	Posted - 2013.12.16 14:51:00 - [261] - Quote Level 10 HMG and I havent used the gun in months. Should tell you something.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1266	Posted - 2013.12.16 15:05:00 - [262] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: Wouldn't it be great if HMGs had a 10% damage buff, an increase in range comparable to the max Sharpshooter skill of Chrome, and a working cone of dispersion?.. I just want Heavies to be feared again, even if slight. We're nothing more than slow moving target practice now. On another note, Scouts need love too. You seem to subscribe to the standard CCP school of balancing, which is: "Hey, this thing is underperforming a bit and needs a slight buff. So let's increase the damage, range, and change the mechanics around completely!" ... I really thing that's the wrong way to do it. Pick one, tweak, adjust in a few weeks if it isn't working right. Otherwise we set ourselves up for another round of nerfing, which is the route tanks are on right now. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 200/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4200	Posted - 2013.12.16 16:28:00 - [263] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. 30 plus days and not another word has been said about a fix coming soon, next patch, nothing! Thanks for keeping us posted doing a bang up job
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8932	Posted - 2013.12.16 16:30:00 - [264] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. 30 plus days and not another word has been said about a fix coming soon, next patch, nothing! Thanks for keeping us posted doing a bang up job I refuse to spawn with my HMG anymore. The muzzle flash is too bright to see what you're shooting at, and everything has double your range these days. If I wanted to camp an objective, I'd become a remote explosive Vids / O7
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven 609	Posted - 2013.12.16 16:33:00 - [265] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. 30 plus days and not another word has been said about a fix coming soon, next patch, nothing! Thanks for keeping us posted doing a bang up job I refuse to spawn with my HMG anymore. The muzzle flash is too bright to see what you're shooting at, and everything has double your range these days. If I wanted to camp an objective, I'd become a remote explosive You can do what I did, stopped playing completely. I was able to get 37 days worth of passive boosters, that's how long I'm not touching the game for. Plus with my shiny PS4 dust is all but obsolete now. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8932	Posted - 2013.12.16 16:42:00 - [266] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. 30 plus days and not another word has been said about a fix coming soon, next patch, nothing! Thanks for keeping us posted doing a bang up job I refuse to spawn with my HMG anymore. The muzzle flash is too bright to see what you're shooting at, and everything has double your range these days. If I wanted to camp an objective, I'd become a remote explosive You can do what I did, stopped playing completely. I was able to get 37 days worth of passive boosters, that's how long I'm not touching the game for. Plus with my shiny PS4 dust is all but obsolete now. I'm dirt poor with no life to speak of, so DUST is where I'm at. I just don't leave my dropship anymore lol Vids / O7
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven 610	Posted - 2013.12.16 16:44:00 - [267] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: MassiveNine wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys. We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback. We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. 30 plus days and not another word has been said about a fix coming soon, next patch, nothing! Thanks for keeping us posted doing a bang up job I refuse to spawn with my HMG anymore. The muzzle flash is too bright to see what you're shooting at, and everything has double your range these days. If I wanted to camp an objective, I'd become a remote explosive You can do what I did, stopped playing completely. I was able to get 37 days worth of passive boosters, that's how long I'm not touching the game for. Plus with my shiny PS4 dust is all but obsolete now. I'm dirt poor with no life to speak of, so DUST is where I'm at. I just don't leave my dropship anymore lol Yea, i hear you. The PS4 was a gift, so otherwise I'd prolly still be playing dust. I also forgot to mention the boosters came from the AUR that I was refunded for my BPO's. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8932	Posted - 2013.12.16 16:47:00 - [268] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: Yea, i hear you. The PS4 was a gift, so otherwise I'd prolly still be playing dust. I also forgot to mention the boosters came from the AUR that I was refunded for my BPO's. I was so pumped for that AUR, grabbed myself five 3 day active boosters Vids / O7
jamstar saa187 the third day Public Disorder. 61	Posted - 2013.12.16 17:00:00 - [269] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: [quote=MassiveNine][quote=DUST Fiend]I'm dirt poor with no life to speak of, so DUST is where I'm at. I just don't leave my dropship anymore lol i noticed this. saw your recent video. it's practically: call in DS.... annoy tank/Kill Infantry..... Get shot by tank (and get angry)...... recall DS...... shoot tank with FG..... rinse & repeat. quite funny i thought. sad that the HMG isnt given any love, but i'm still hoping for a updated video (from some1 like you btw) showing proof that it has NOT been fixed. that way we cant/wont have any dispute as to the current mechanics, and the Blue tags will have the updated video proof to go and analyse.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8936	Posted - 2013.12.16 17:04:00 - [270] - Quote jamstar saa187 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: [quote=MassiveNine][quote=DUST Fiend]I'm dirt poor with no life to speak of, so DUST is where I'm at. I just don't leave my dropship anymore lol i noticed this. saw your recent video. it's practically: call in DS.... annoy tank/Kill Infantry..... Get shot by tank (and get angry)...... recall DS...... shoot tank with FG..... rinse & repeat. quite funny i thought. sad that the HMG isnt given any love, but i'm still hoping for a updated video (from some1 like you btw) showing proof that it has NOT been fixed. that way we cant/wont have any dispute as to the current mechanics, and the Blue tags will have the updated video proof to go and analyse. I tend to leave the informative videos to those who make them better than me, I don't really have any way to test things in a controlled environment so I typically just stick to basic gameplay footage. That said, I have been wanting to throw together some observations about the Incubus and railguns/blasters, particularly with how impossible it is to aim without guessing because you have a tiny white dot to aim with that blends in perfectly with your ship. So, maybe I'll toss something together for HMGs Who knows Vids / O7

jamstar saa187 the third day Public Disorder. 61	Posted - 2013.12.17 13:19:00 - [271] - Quote Something's coming HMG users....... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129785&find=unread "We will be deploying the following changes: * Reduced fuel injector module bonus by 5% and lowered HAV top speed slightly. * Improved HMG effectiveness at short/medium range. * Added hybrid tag to Rail Rifle so that the correct role bonuses apply. * Multiple improvements to the matchmaking system. * Orbital Strike Exploit: Fixed edge case where players were able to request 2 orbitals for the price of one. * Fixed aggressive friendly fire damage tracking. * Battleserver stability fixes. let's hope this is the fix we've been waiting for.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1283	Posted - 2013.12.17 14:21:00 - [272] - Quote jamstar saa187 wrote: Something's coming HMG users....... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129785&find=unread "We will be deploying the following changes: * Reduced fuel injector module bonus by 5% and lowered HAV top speed slightly. * Improved HMG effectiveness at short/medium range. * Added hybrid tag to Rail Rifle so that the correct role bonuses apply. * Multiple improvements to the matchmaking system. * Orbital Strike Exploit: Fixed edge case where players were able to request 2 orbitals for the price of one. * Fixed aggressive friendly fire damage tracking. * Battleserver stability fixes. let's hope this is the fix we've been waiting for. Rejoice! \o/ ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 200/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4200	Posted - 2013.12.17 16:50:00 - [273] - Quote Woo Hoo!


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