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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
J0hlss0n
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
40
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Posted - 2013.11.13 21:06:00 -
[91] - Quote
Nice work. =) |
THE-BEAST
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
97
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Posted - 2013.11.13 21:08:00 -
[92] - Quote
No wonder why I quit this game after the hmg nerf. If they fix this it might make the BMG worth using again |
Himiko Kuronaga
The Generals EoN.
2297
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Posted - 2013.11.13 21:15:00 -
[93] - Quote
Quote: Unlike earlier models, the weapon requires no spool up time: rounds are expelled the instant the trigger is pressed. This comes at the cost of intially reduced accuracy as the counter-rotating drives slowly align. Once fully aligned, however, the HMG produces a pinpoint stream of gunfire with unmatched killing potential.
The pinpoint part seems to indeed be the issue.
If this weapon had a more extreme optimal range It'd make more sense, as pinpoint accuracy is what you need for that kind of work.
Seems to me that within the first second its too inaccurate, and when its fully spun up its way too accurate. I've tried bursting the thing to maintain a balance inbetween but that just gets its DPS beaten out. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
1151
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Posted - 2013.11.13 21:24:00 -
[94] - Quote
Slag Emberforge wrote:Hitscan or bullet it does not matter make the area that lines up with the enemies hit box larger would in effect make more like firing a projectile and less like a laser pointer.
If you want to think of it in terms of the size of the reticle being the rough area of the "hitscan" then it is a needle currently, make the diameter/area larger.
I hope that clarifies it a bit, I apologize if it is still unclear as I am a bit sleep deprived.
All good, sir, and yes it does.
I was just hoping to be crystal clear about the mechanics, since this weapon already works in a way that's different from what we expected...
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:At 30 meters your target can still effectively bunny hop and strafe enough of your damage. That All I meant. There is no loss in damage based on mechanics.
Gotcha. Do you think a video demonstrating damage over range wouldn't be useful? I'm still curious about the actual DPS loss from falloff, but I suppose that can be discovered somehow else.
You've clearly solved the main point of HMG damage or inaccuracy out the edge of its optimal range. (As in, there is none...)
¶Gêƒ__ Gò«
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Montezumas Revenge
the majestic space duck
20
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Posted - 2013.11.13 21:55:00 -
[95] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:How fking hard can it be to design weapons? Seriously. 1) Take a pencil 2) write down combat ranges 3) define weapons for those ranges 4) design weapons to dominate at "their" range
HMG should have a spread area as wide as 2 dropsuits at 20m range and destroy anything inside. Yes, either a huuuuuuuuge spread or increased range. Right now it has pinpoint accuracy and crap range => crap weapon. Minmatar weapons are however short range uber dmg weapons, so I think the spread should increase to make this weapon feared again. Looked at jolly rogers video from chromosome the other day. Look at the HMG spread in that vid, it is working there (see 4:10 for example): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd0tAoagjDEIf they fix this, I might go heavy.
Actually, dude, after watching that video it doesn't look like damage is being applied unless the reticule is completely centered on the target.
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HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles.
3968
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Posted - 2013.11.14 02:02:00 -
[96] - Quote
So it seems most agree that this is not working as intended. Now if only we can get some confirmation from CCP |
XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
588
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Posted - 2013.11.14 06:17:00 -
[97] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:So it seems most agree that this is not working as intended. Now if only we can get some confirmation from CCP
The thing is that based on the description it i working as intended by CCP. The problem Is that it's not working as it should be working for that type of weapon. For a weapon that works at 30 meters or less having to be pin point accurate all the time is not possible. This means that the HMG user losses most of their damage due to a mechanic that does not reflect how the weapon should work based on rapid fire weapons.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
593
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Posted - 2013.11.14 06:21:00 -
[98] - Quote
It only seems to do this when standing still. If you move at all you can notice there is much more spread. |
XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
588
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Posted - 2013.11.14 06:25:00 -
[99] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:It only seems to do this when standing still. If you move at all you can notice there is much more spread.
The is no spread. If you are talking about the huge circle, it doesn't actually matter. The circle is a lie. The bullets don't go anywhere but the point in the center.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
593
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Posted - 2013.11.14 06:30:00 -
[100] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Dexter307 wrote:It only seems to do this when standing still. If you move at all you can notice there is much more spread. The is no spread. If you are talking about the huge circle, it doesn't actually matter. The circle is a lie. The bullets don't go anywhere but the point in the center.
You can visualy see the bullets travel away from the center when your moving. Ive even tested it and got hit markers when i had the point in the center not aimed at the target. |
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
588
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Posted - 2013.11.14 06:31:00 -
[101] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Dexter307 wrote:It only seems to do this when standing still. If you move at all you can notice there is much more spread. The is no spread. If you are talking about the huge circle, it doesn't actually matter. The circle is a lie. The bullets don't go anywhere but the point in the center. You can visualy see the bullets travel away from the center when your moving. Ive even tested it and got hit markers when i had the point in the center not aimed at the target.
The animation is not the same as where the bullets are hitting. But for the sake of argument I can also make s video of this too.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
593
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Posted - 2013.11.14 06:36:00 -
[102] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Dexter307 wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Dexter307 wrote:It only seems to do this when standing still. If you move at all you can notice there is much more spread. The is no spread. If you are talking about the huge circle, it doesn't actually matter. The circle is a lie. The bullets don't go anywhere but the point in the center. You can visualy see the bullets travel away from the center when your moving. Ive even tested it and got hit markers when i had the point in the center not aimed at the target. The animation is not the same as where the bullets are hitting. But for the sake of argument I can also make s video of this too. Even if the animation was off i can still get hitmarkers |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
201
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Posted - 2013.11.14 09:08:00 -
[103] - Quote
This is that rarest of things - something on the forums that actually contributes to knowledge. I, like everyone else, always thought the problem with the HMG was too much spread; turns out it is actually too little. You are like a Dust Copernicus. +1 good sir. |
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CCP Saberwing
C C P C C P Alliance
149
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Posted - 2013.11.14 09:36:00 -
[104] - Quote
Hey guys.
We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback.
We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay.
CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
487
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Posted - 2013.11.14 09:46:00 -
[105] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Hey guys.
We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback.
We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay.
Yay! Blue post!
+¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13.
I Support SP Rollover.
"Core Locus 514. AR 514. Bricktank 514. COD 514."
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Chibi Andy
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
643
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:17:00 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Hey guys.
We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback.
We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay.
hopefully us heavies can have a improved HMG to murder all those reds with and maybe go back to the days when we were feared
YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!!
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(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
593
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:26:00 -
[107] - Quote
Chibi Andy wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Hey guys.
We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback.
We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. hopefully us heavies can have a improved HMG to murder all those reds with and maybe go back to the days when we were feared
I hate using my HMG and have reds not even stop coming at me.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
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Powerh8er
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men.
329
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:46:00 -
[108] - Quote
It must be an idiot proof killingmachine.
It dont even come halfway close to the forge guns combat effectiveness. It is hard to use, difficult to kill and compete with and not fun.
RL machineguns are an orgasmic experience to operate, wielding the dust514's HMG is quite the opposite. |
Rusty Shallows
490
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:50:00 -
[109] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:Thats it! heavies cant aim! Who wouldve known -_- on the other hand my shotgun can be point blank and still not function properly... Your weapon does, i dont wanna hear it... Although i agree a hmg's spread should be much larger. The smg functions like a hmg more than the hmg. But my hate for heavies in chromosome when i first started in standard gear is keeping me from sympathizing. Tuesday night my buddy in his shotgun Gal-logi had no problem getting kills. Neither did a corp-mate nor the guy who out maneuvered and shot me in the face (although he only survived with a sliver of health) Wednesday night.
We have all had weapons go buggy. During this last event on more than one occasion my HMG wouldn't spool or FG couldn't charge. My last session I experienced a new bug where priming the grenade would then switched out to another weapon and only by weapon changing again would it then let me finally throw the grenade before it detonated.
"She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now," Thank you SR-71
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HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles.
3969
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:53:00 -
[110] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Hey guys.
We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback.
We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay.
Thank you to the OP for finally putting an explanation to all of us heavies huge frustration with this iteration of the HMG
And thank you CCP for acknowledging this thread. I have hope that you too will determine this is not working as intended and the HMG is in need of some serious love. |
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Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
201
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:32:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Hey guys.
We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback.
We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay.
I'm not sure that increasing spread per se is the correct solution, as this will make the weapon even less effective at mid range . Rather just make the area that hits larger, to reflect the fact this is a multi-barrel weapon. To illustrate:
Current situation of laser beam-like fire looks like this: --- (which is crap close up)
Increased spread would look like this: < (which is crap at range)
Increased hit area would look like this: --- --- (where the two lines represent the top and bottom barrel, and anything between them at any range gets hit)
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George Moros
Area 514
160
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:37:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP Saberwing wrote:Hey guys.
We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback.
We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay.
Thank god this issue finally got some dev attention. However (and sorry for being a *****), there were several threads about this issue posted before, describing the HMG aiming/hit detection problem in detail, and they all requested a dev response. Does one really need to make a friggin' youtube video about an issue to get dev attention around here??? |
HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles.
3969
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:38:00 -
[113] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Hey guys.
We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback.
We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. I'm not sure that increasing spread per se is the correct solution, as this will make the weapon even less effective at mid range . Rather just make the area that hits larger, to reflect the fact this is a multi-barrel weapon. To illustrate: Current situation of laser beam-like fire looks like this: --- (which is crap close up) Increased spread would look like this: < (which is crap at range) Increased hit area would look like this: --- --- (where the two lines represent the top and bottom barrel, and anything between them at any range gets hit)
Well in past builds the HMG did actually shoot in a cone and it became tighter the longer you shoot.
So they have the technology, apparently some wires got crossed and numbers may have been inputed with thick thumbs causing this debacle. |
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
491
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:48:00 -
[114] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:CCP Saberwing wrote:Hey guys.
We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback.
We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. I'm not sure that increasing spread per se is the correct solution, as this will make the weapon even less effective at mid range . Rather just make the area that hits larger, to reflect the fact this is a multi-barrel weapon. To illustrate: Current situation of laser beam-like fire looks like this: --- (which is crap close up) Increased spread would look like this: < (which is crap at range) Increased hit area would look like this: --- --- (where the two lines represent the top and bottom barrel, and anything between them at any range gets hit) Well in past builds the HMG did actually shoot in a cone and it became tighter the longer you shoot. So they have the technology, apparently some wires got crossed and numbers may have been inputed with thick thumbs causing this debacle.
Yeh, I believe that the HMG might still have this cone, but some numbers are fudged in the code, especially the parameter describing the spread (or radius) of the cone.
+¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13.
I Support SP Rollover.
"Core Locus 514. AR 514. Bricktank 514. COD 514."
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George Moros
Area 514
160
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:53:00 -
[115] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:I'm not sure that increasing spread per se is the correct solution, as this will make the weapon even less effective at mid range . Rather just make the area that hits larger, to reflect the fact this is a multi-barrel weapon. To illustrate:
Spread should remain as it is (assuming spread is determined by the HMG's aiming ring). The main question here is how exactly does server calculate and apply the damage on target. I doubt that it calculates trajectory/hit detection for every bullet since a 2000 RPM weapon would probably put too much stress on the servers.
IMHO, HMG hit detection should work as follows:
The target should receive damage proportional to the percentage of the surface area it occupies in the HMG's aiming ring. Thus, if your target is closer, it receives more damage since it occupies more space in the aiming ring. Also, when the aiming ring starts shrinking, more damage is applied to more distant targets - this would actually work exactly according to the HMG's weapon description. What's even more important, if more than one target is inside HMG's aiming ring, they should all receive damage proportional to the surface area they occupy - this would make HMG a true "spray and pray" weapon. As it should be. |
LT SHANKS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
692
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Posted - 2013.11.14 12:10:00 -
[116] - Quote
I feel dumb..
I use to whine stating that the dispersion was far too much which ultimately added to the HMG's inaccuracies. After all this time, it turns out that I just suck at aiming...
No wonder why I play a support medic MinLogi with an Assault MD now... because I can't shoot. |
XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
602
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Posted - 2013.11.14 12:16:00 -
[117] - Quote
LT SHANKS wrote:I feel dumb..
I use to whine stating that the dispersion was far too much which ultimately added to the HMG's inaccuracies. After all this time, it turns out that I just suck at aiming...
No wonder why I play a support medic MinLogi with an Assault MD now... because I can't shoot.
Yes and no. No one should be obligated to be pin point accurate 100% of the time. Apart from lasers, no weapon is pinpoint. All have spread that help out with aiming inaccuracies.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
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Shley Ashes
TanksVeryMuch
65
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Posted - 2013.11.14 12:36:00 -
[118] - Quote
You're cheating on the plasma canon !
Does she know? if she asks, i'll say you was to drunk to drive an stayed at mine
bro's before hoes I gotcha back bra
I used to pilot HAV's then I took a forge gun to the knee
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TuFar Gon
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
42
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Posted - 2013.11.14 12:36:00 -
[119] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:VIDEO!!! Dust 514 - Heavy Machine Gun accuracyHello guys, There are lots of heavies that you talk to about their heavy machine gun. When Asking whats wrong with it, a lot of them say that it feels sort of inaccurate, the range is bad, the spread is too much etc etc. People who don't use it would say things Like, "you should crouch and Aim Down Sites" and in all fairness it does help but, just a bit. The real reason that the heavy machine gun feels so under powered is that it's too accurate. The damage is centered on a point that is as small as the point on the laser rifle's "Aim down sights". So even if you aim down sights or have the target inside your spread at all times, chances are you are not going to deal any worthwhile damage unless you have the target centered. I could talk about this for ages and I still wouldn't make believers out of the most of you so why not a video. NEWS!! CCP Saberwing wrote:Hey guys.
We've had a look at this video and it's pretty cool. Great work pulling it together. :) Love getting this kind of feedback.
We're having a look in to the situation with HMG spread and will keep you posted, mmmmkay. Thank you CCP for answering . I hope the video helps the DEVS and the Heavy community alike. lets hope so,,cuz ya'll at ccp shut the game down this morning(downtime) to hotfix the nova knife. Will the hmg recieve the same kind of attention FINALLY!!?? Or will this be more proof that the devs are biased. They'll actually stop the game to fix the nova knife,,but not the hmg which has been broken since the deployment of uprising. READ THE DAMN FORUMS DEV'S. How many post's by heavys have u seen,,pleading for the hmg fix?? BIASED,,,,LIARS,,,CROOKS,,,,NUFF SAID
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Ensar Cael
Svartur Bjorn
25
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Posted - 2013.11.14 12:40:00 -
[120] - Quote
Not a heavy but I have heard it noted that the HMG should have stopping power as in impeding the enemies movement and possibly pushing them back. Pretty much the chain gun cha cha. Wouldn't this add to the effectiveness of the HMG? |
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