This forum has a few themes right now: Nerf the AR, Patch want/needs, and Scout suit modifications.

I see that people who are using Scouts are not happy with what little they have to work with. They want more equipment slots, or more CPU, and more speed, etc...

I thought the purpose of light frames was to be stripped down suits that purposely can perform LESS simultaneous functions on the battlefield. They are like the opposites of Logi or Heavies I thought?

Scouts have speed and stealth, which means they run around the back of the enemy and plant Uplinks to ambush the enemy, sneak to an objective and begin hacking it, scan the holy sh*t out of everything, and maybe get a few kills then run for cover again. Or, they actually scout the enemy and use a mic to tell their team where they are at.

I know some people use them for shotguns, because you need every advantage you can get with those broken guns, and the fact that hitboxes sway terribly in this game makes Scouts very effective when they are dancing all around you. Bullets shoot right through them like they are ghosts; but they die instantly if they are 10 metes away from you... I can't tell you how many times I catch a Scout in the open, in the thick of the battlefield running head on right at me, and all I can think is "really dude, props for trying, but you're dead... NOW" I shoot, they die. sometimes I even have o back up 5 steps. This is an example of a scout playing foolishly to there equipment function.


So, Why are Scout users asking for more, when their frames are specifically made to do less? This doesn't mean they aren't effective, they just have different roles. Sure, Heavies would like to have equipment slots so they can stand on Triages, Logis would like sidearms AND more slots, mediums would like to have Scout speed without sacrificing health and stealth themselves. I personally would like more to my Caldari Medium frames(and yes I use the SCR w/ Caldari because I'm stubborn) but that's all in the name of balance.

I never used an actual Scout frame before; only Basic Light. I do fine with them of what can be expected. I hack more objectives, and I get more support WP. In fact, I'll leave with this example:

The only time I ever played General John Ripper and Levi Thunder our team was destined to get stomped. I was having a terrible day with connections, so I was only using free fits that day. One of them was The Gallente Hunter Fit, a stealth(ish) Light frame. As expected, my team was getting destroyed in a hurry, we went down by 15 clones in the first 2 minutes. So, I put on my light frame, and ran all the way around the map, and climbed up a wall and planted Uplinks right behind them. So ever death from there on, they got ambushed. I then ran all the way around them again and did it to them a 2nd, and 3rd time.
I finished 2/4 but had 1200+ in Uplinks because I placed them in detrimental positions for the enemy. I called in my HAV (and actually left it there for my team to drive) and before you know it, we won the match. All thanks to ME! All thanks to using a Light Suit as intended.

depending on the scout you talk to you'll hear different things. for me it's that every task we can perform another suit can do better and with more hitpoints, also we can't really fit equipment on our suit without losing valuable tank.

does that help?

Word! That is what I'm trying to write here in forum. Scouts should scout not to do frontliners job.

I understand

Read the example at the end of my post. I used equipment, and had nothing to tank onto my HP. I was paper mache'. That's why I had to take the very long way around the enemy so I wasn't spotted, because I had zero chance in a fire fight. My role wasn't to get kills. That's why we have Assaults and Scouts. One is made to kill, the other is made to... scout

I read it, why have a scout if literally everything is better than it? congrats you could have used a logi and done the same thing but with better ehp? a few damps and an uplink and maybe a kinkat and you have a scout suit with twice the ehp that's still fast and stealthy. why have a scout? why? you can fill the same role with another suit that has better hitpoints and damage so why have a scout for it?

also I'm gonna assume the underlined bit is a typo? might wanna fix it before you void your argument completely.

Then I really have to ask, why are you using Scouts at all then? Why are you purposely gimping yourself?

I was pointing out the name of the two different suits, that have 2 different roles. Assaults are made to kill, and not a whole lot more, they are made to be on the front lines.

Scouts aren't made to do that. They are made to be behind the enemy lines, doing scout things. Sneaky things. Ambush tactics.

Assaults assault. Scouts scout.

I understand

Read the example at the end of my post. I used equipment, and had nothing to tank onto my HP. I was paper mache'. That's why I had to take the very long way around the enemy so I wasn't spotted, because I had zero chance in a fire fight. My role wasn't to get kills. That's why we have Assaults and Scouts. One is made to kill, the other is made to... scout

Scout suits are fine for what they do within the hit/run or stealth playstyles and only those styles and nothing else.

Scenario A:
Newbro AR-514 spots Proto Scout.
Guns him down in an instant, as the Scout made a mistake.

Scenario B:
Newbro Scout sneaks up behind Proto AR-514.
Stabs or Shotguns his mark in the back, but dies instantly when mark turns around.

Conclusion:
Perfectly planned and executed assassinations often fail.
Hit-and-run / stealth playstyle is imbalanced.

Question:
Why is this OK?

Because killing is a secondary function for a Scout?

depending on the scout you talk to you'll hear different things. for me it's that every task we can perform another suit can do better and with more hitpoints, also we can't really fit equipment on our suit without losing valuable tank.

does that help?

This forum has a few themes right now: Nerf the AR, Patch want/needs, and Scout suit modifications.

I see that people who are using Scouts are not happy with what little they have to work with. They want more equipment slots, or more CPU, and more speed, etc...

I thought the purpose of light frames was to be stripped down suits that purposely can perform LESS simultaneous functions on the battlefield. They are like the opposites of Logi or Heavies I thought?

Scouts have speed and stealth, which means they run around the back of the enemy and plant Uplinks to ambush the enemy, sneak to an objective and begin hacking it, scan the holy sh*t out of everything, and maybe get a few kills then run for cover again. Or, they actually scout the enemy and use a mic to tell their team where they are at.

I know some people use them for shotguns, because you need every advantage you can get with those broken guns, and the fact that hitboxes sway terribly in this game makes Scouts very effective when they are dancing all around you. Bullets shoot right through them like they are ghosts; but they die instantly if they are 10 metes away from you... I can't tell you how many times I catch a Scout in the open, in the thick of the battlefield running head on right at me, and all I can think is "really dude, props for trying, but you're dead... NOW" I shoot, they die. sometimes I even have o back up 5 steps. This is an example of a scout playing foolishly to there equipment function.


So, Why are Scout users asking for more, when their frames are specifically made to do less? This doesn't mean they aren't effective, they just have different roles. Sure, Heavies would like to have equipment slots so they can stand on Triages, Logis would like sidearms AND more slots, mediums would like to have Scout speed without sacrificing health and stealth themselves. I personally would like more to my Caldari Medium frames(and yes I use the SCR w/ Caldari because I'm stubborn) but that's all in the name of balance.

I never used an actual Scout frame before; only Basic Light. I do fine with them of what can be expected. I hack more objectives, and I get more support WP. In fact, I'll leave with this example:

The only time I ever played General John Ripper and Levi Thunder our team was destined to get stomped. I was having a terrible day with connections, so I was only using free fits that day. One of them was The Gallente Hunter Fit, a stealth(ish) Light frame. As expected, my team was getting destroyed in a hurry, we went down by 15 clones in the first 2 minutes. So, I put on my light frame, and ran all the way around the map, and climbed up a wall and planted Uplinks right behind them. So ever death from there on, they got ambushed. I then ran all the way around them again and did it to them a 2nd, and 3rd time.
I finished 2/4 but had 1200+ in Uplinks because I placed them in detrimental positions for the enemy. I called in my HAV (and actually left it there for my team to drive) and before you know it, we won the match. All thanks to ME! All thanks to using a Light Suit as intended.

I understand

Read the example at the end of my post. I used equipment, and had nothing to tank onto my HP. I was paper mache'. That's why I had to take the very long way around the enemy so I wasn't spotted, because I had zero chance in a fire fight. My role wasn't to get kills. That's why we have Assaults and Scouts. One is made to kill, the other is made to... scout

Then I really have to ask, why are you using Scouts at all then? Why are you purposely gimping yourself?

I was pointing out the name of the two different suits, that have 2 different roles. Assaults are made to kill, and not a whole lot more, they are made to be on the front lines.

Scouts aren't made to do that. They are made to be behind the enemy lines, doing scout things. Sneaky things. Ambush tactics.

Assaults assault. Scouts scout.

HA ignorant, or arrogant, I can't tell which.

The only time I ever played General John Ripper and Levi Thunder our team was destined to get stomped. I was having a terrible day with connections, so I was only using free fits that day. One of them was The Gallente Hunter Fit, a stealth(ish) Light frame. As expected, my team was getting destroyed in a hurry, we went down by 15 clones in the first 2 minutes. So, I put on my light frame, and ran all the way around the map, and climbed up a wall and planted Uplinks right behind them. So ever death from there on, they got ambushed. I then ran all the way around them again and did it to them a 2nd, and 3rd time.
I finished 2/4 but had 1200+ in Uplinks because I placed them in detrimental positions for the enemy. I called in my HAV (and actually left it there for my team to drive) and before you know it, we won the match. All thanks to ME! All thanks to using a Light Suit as intended.

Is it the cost of suit then? My scout cost 7k ISK and slower medium suit cost 20k ISK. Proto versions ofcourse more. Protologi 200k ISK and proto scout ? More speed an passive scan would be nice.

Scouts have speed and stealth, which means they run around the back of the enemy and plant Uplinks to ambush the enemy, sneak to an objective and begin hacking it, scan the holy sh*t out of everything, and maybe get a few kills then run for cover again. Or, they actually scout the enemy and use a mic to tell their team where they are at.

Some Scouts just haven't wised up to how unreliable CCP is. They said we'd get a change in the suit a few months ago, during 1.2, and they haven't realized CCP won't deliver.

This forum has a few themes right now: Nerf the AR, Patch want/needs, and Scout suit modifications.

I see that people who are using Scouts are not happy with what little they have to work with. They want more equipment slots, or more CPU, and more speed, etc...

I thought the purpose of light frames was to be stripped down suits that purposely can perform LESS simultaneous functions on the battlefield. They are like the opposites of Logi or Heavies I thought?

Scouts have speed and stealth, which means they run around the back of the enemy and plant Uplinks to ambush the enemy, sneak to an objective and begin hacking it, scan the holy sh*t out of everything, and maybe get a few kills then run for cover again. Or, they actually scout the enemy and use a mic to tell their team where they are at.

I know some people use them for shotguns, because you need every advantage you can get with those broken guns, and the fact that hitboxes sway terribly in this game makes Scouts very effective when they are dancing all around you. Bullets shoot right through them like they are ghosts; but they die instantly if they are 10 metes away from you... I can't tell you how many times I catch a Scout in the open, in the thick of the battlefield running head on right at me, and all I can think is "really dude, props for trying, but you're dead... NOW" I shoot, they die. sometimes I even have o back up 5 steps. This is an example of a scout playing foolishly to there equipment function.


So, Why are Scout users asking for more, when their frames are specifically made to do less? This doesn't mean they aren't effective, they just have different roles. Sure, Heavies would like to have equipment slots so they can stand on Triages, Logis would like sidearms AND more slots, mediums would like to have Scout speed without sacrificing health and stealth themselves. I personally would like more to my Caldari Medium frames(and yes I use the SCR w/ Caldari because I'm stubborn) but that's all in the name of balance.

I never used an actual Scout frame before; only Basic Light. I do fine with them of what can be expected. I hack more objectives, and I get more support WP. In fact, I'll leave with this example:

The only time I ever played General John Ripper and Levi Thunder our team was destined to get stomped. I was having a terrible day with connections, so I was only using free fits that day. One of them was The Gallente Hunter Fit, a stealth(ish) Light frame. As expected, my team was getting destroyed in a hurry, we went down by 15 clones in the first 2 minutes. So, I put on my light frame, and ran all the way around the map, and climbed up a wall and planted Uplinks right behind them. So ever death from there on, they got ambushed. I then ran all the way around them again and did it to them a 2nd, and 3rd time.
I finished 2/4 but had 1200+ in Uplinks because I placed them in detrimental positions for the enemy. I called in my HAV (and actually left it there for my team to drive) and before you know it, we won the match. All thanks to ME! All thanks to using a Light Suit as intended.

Then I really have to ask, why are you using Scouts at all then? Why are you purposely gimping yourself?

I was pointing out the name of the two different suits, that have 2 different roles. Assaults are made to kill, and not a whole lot more, they are made to be on the front lines.

Scouts aren't made to do that. They are made to be behind the enemy lines, doing scout things. Sneaky things. Ambush tactics.

Assaults assault. Scouts scout.

I never used an actual Scout frame before; only Basic Light. I do fine with them of what can be expected. I hack more objectives, and I get more support WP. In fact, I'll leave with this example:

The only time I ever played General John Ripper and Levi Thunder our team was destined to get stomped. I was having a terrible day with connections, so I was only using free fits that day. One of them was The Gallente Hunter Fit, a stealth(ish) Light frame. As expected, my team was getting destroyed in a hurry, we went down by 15 clones in the first 2 minutes. So, I put on my light frame, and ran all the way around the map, and climbed up a wall and planted Uplinks right behind them. So ever death from there on, they got ambushed. I then ran all the way around them again and did it to them a 2nd, and 3rd time.
I finished 2/4 but had 1200+ in Uplinks because I placed them in detrimental positions for the enemy. I called in my HAV (and actually left it there for my team to drive) and before you know it, we won the match. All thanks to ME! All thanks to using a Light Suit as intended.

Scouts can't scout if they have the same base scan radius of every other suit. Boost it to 20, and I'm a content Scout.

This forum has a few themes right now: Nerf the AR, Patch want/needs, and Scout suit modifications.

I see that people who are using Scouts are not happy with what little they have to work with. They want more equipment slots, or more CPU, and more speed, etc...

I thought the purpose of light frames was to be stripped down suits that purposely can perform LESS simultaneous functions on the battlefield. They are like the opposites of Logi or Heavies I thought?

Scouts have speed and stealth, which means they run around the back of the enemy and plant Uplinks to ambush the enemy, sneak to an objective and begin hacking it, scan the holy sh*t out of everything, and maybe get a few kills then run for cover again. Or, they actually scout the enemy and use a mic to tell their team where they are at.

I know some people use them for shotguns, because you need every advantage you can get with those broken guns, and the fact that hitboxes sway terribly in this game makes Scouts very effective when they are dancing all around you. Bullets shoot right through them like they are ghosts; but they die instantly if they are 10 metes away from you... I can't tell you how many times I catch a Scout in the open, in the thick of the battlefield running head on right at me, and all I can think is "really dude, props for trying, but you're dead... NOW" I shoot, they die. sometimes I even have o back up 5 steps. This is an example of a scout playing foolishly to there equipment function.


So, Why are Scout users asking for more, when their frames are specifically made to do less? This doesn't mean they aren't effective, they just have different roles. Sure, Heavies would like to have equipment slots so they can stand on Triages, Logis would like sidearms AND more slots, mediums would like to have Scout speed without sacrificing health and stealth themselves. I personally would like more to my Caldari Medium frames(and yes I use the SCR w/ Caldari because I'm stubborn) but that's all in the name of balance.

I never used an actual Scout frame before; only Basic Light. I do fine with them of what can be expected. I hack more objectives, and I get more support WP. In fact, I'll leave with this example:

The only time I ever played General John Ripper and Levi Thunder our team was destined to get stomped. I was having a terrible day with connections, so I was only using free fits that day. One of them was The Gallente Hunter Fit, a stealth(ish) Light frame. As expected, my team was getting destroyed in a hurry, we went down by 15 clones in the first 2 minutes. So, I put on my light frame, and ran all the way around the map, and climbed up a wall and planted Uplinks right behind them. So ever death from there on, they got ambushed. I then ran all the way around them again and did it to them a 2nd, and 3rd time.
I finished 2/4 but had 1200+ in Uplinks because I placed them in detrimental positions for the enemy. I called in my HAV (and actually left it there for my team to drive) and before you know it, we won the match. All thanks to ME! All thanks to using a Light Suit as intended.

Because killing is a secondary function for a Scout?

If killing is intended to be a secondary Scout function ...
1) CCP should make every effort to remove "assassination" references from their Scout descriptions.
2) CCP should budget to lose *250 dedicated players who've been waiting patiently for promised "Dev Hugs".
3) AR-514 should pat itself on the back for forever ridding itself of a game with depth and a skilled opponent.

If infiltration and recon are to be the Scout's primary functions ...
1) Make the Active Scanner Scout-only equipment and undo the nerf to our base scan range.
2) Undo the nerfs to our speed and stamina, and make us more capable at evasion.
3) Undo the nerfs to our EQ and slot configs so we can perform our AR-514-prescribed role better than a Logi.

* 250 ... yep, that's all of us. Wonder why there aren't more Scouts?

Nova knifing mediums

Look bud, every suit gives up something to get something. Heavies are tanked but slow. Scouts are slight but fast. Medium Suits are in the middle - at least in theory. Don't get it confused. Some of the best players on Dust are scouts - but it's not because of some advantge conferred on them by their suits. They're just REALLY good players. It makes no sense to me that a medium suit can have 5x my eHP but can run almost as fast as I can. scouts have no real advantage. you want to talk about scanning? Sure - we start out at the same 10m that everyone else does, but to get it higher we have to give up low slots, which you guessed it, we need for speed. I'm sick of people who don't play the role saying "scouts can have a scan radius of 99m" when it is so clear that the only way to get that is first to be proto gallente with scan skills maxxed out and second to give up ALL 4 low slots ---- no room for speed, which defeats the entire purpose of the suit. Basically, people need to shut up. The way the AR is right now, it's impossible to play as a scout.


People keep saying "Stealth Stealth Stealth", - well num nuts, I would be stealthy but there is no mechanism for stealth in this game. Nobody relies on their passive scanning because it's only 10 m. The only way I can sneak up on someone is if I'm lucky and they don't turn around and AR ****

And lastly, just because you had one decent game as a scout doesn't give you cause to come on here and do the whole "well I'm awesome even with a scout suit" humble brag. keep playing as a scout. Nothing you put up there couldn't have been done by another suit (looking at you medium suits). You were just lucky you weren't facing direct combat from formidable foes because they would - I repeat - WOULD have stomped you. Also, you called in a HAV - just because you were in a light suit does not mean you were scouting.

Unofficial Scout Leader Right There. +1

Look bud, every suit gives up something to get something. Heavies are tanked but slow. Scouts are slight but fast. Medium Suits are in the middle - at least in theory. Don't get it confused. Some of the best players on Dust are scouts - but it's not because of some advantge conferred on them by their suits. They're just REALLY good players. It makes no sense to me that a medium suit can have 5x my eHP but can run almost as fast as I can. scouts have no real advantage. you want to talk about scanning? Sure - we start out at the same 10m that everyone else does, but to get it higher we have to give up low slots, which you guessed it, we need for speed. I'm sick of people who don't play the role saying "scouts can have a scan radius of 99m" when it is so clear that the only way to get that is first to be proto gallente with scan skills maxxed out and second to give up ALL 4 low slots ---- no room for speed, which defeats the entire purpose of the suit. Basically, people need to shut up. The way the AR is right now, it's impossible to play as a scout.


People keep saying "Stealth Stealth Stealth", - well num nuts, I would be stealthy but there is no mechanism for stealth in this game. Nobody relies on their passive scanning because it's only 10 m. The only way I can sneak up on someone is if I'm lucky and they don't turn around and AR ****

And lastly, just because you had one decent game as a scout doesn't give you cause to come on here and do the whole "well I'm awesome even with a scout suit" humble brag. keep playing as a scout. Nothing you put up there couldn't have been done by another suit (looking at you medium suits). You were just lucky you weren't facing direct combat from formidable foes because they would - I repeat - WOULD have stomped you. Also, you called in a HAV - just because you were in a light suit does not mean you were scouting.

Has anyone EVER played TF2? Jesus Christ dont tell us what we're supposed to do. Do your own **** and let us do ours, just stfu already.

TF2 Scout and Heavy would destroy Dust 514 Scouts and Heavies...

SOme of you ******* still don't get it? Okay, I'll try and make this real simple:

1: THe modules made for us is too hard to fit.

2: speed can be matched by a medium, and with more eHP

3: scanning abilities can be matched by a medium, and again with more eHP, and half of the time, better firepower

4: Scouts have hardly any EWAR, and the EWAR that exists, which is scanners, the frames that should (imo) be benefited by it the most, Gallente Scouts (since Gallente are all about dem' scanners), aren't at all, and Logi suits are more, which is by the way a medium suit.

5: When the rest of the EWAR does finally come out, if nothing changes, like I said, Logi's will be benefited by them more because of the skill bonuses.

All of this points to using Logi's and assaults more than the Scouts, because they can do everything the Scouts can better. That's why we ask for better base stats.

The reason scouts want a buff is because medium suits do the "scout" job better than scouts.. I mean if that's not enough to warrant a buff I don't know what is lol.

If the smg did the AR job better as in more range more dmg more everything.... Wouldn't you want the AR to be buffed? Or smg Nerfed?

Really? Because I just got out of a game against you, where your Scout walked right through my HMG and killed me from 3m away. You had 400 armor, and you were fast as hell(2x faster than your medium counter parts), and had plenty of killing power obviously...
Seems a whole heck of a lot more than any Medium Frame can do in this game...

Your argument is bullsh*t and void.

No you're just bad at the game. Sure I went 35-2 but that's because my squad had a scanner so I knew where everyone was at.

My scout had 98 shield 404 armor with a 7.5 sprint speed... 500 total hp is NOTHING compared to what an assault or logi can get.

Hell my corp mate runs 500 shield alone with a proto shotgun AND is faster than me. He runs proto cal assault. Trust me bro.. If I went assault shotgun instead of scout shotgun.... I would be doing sooo much better.

How is you able to survive a full frontal HMG blasting you; me being bad at the game? I lit you up, and could barely even see you through my hitmarkers. But you were able to survive long enough to blast through 1200 HP....

dude sorry, the evidence doesn't lie. You're argument of saying Scouts can just be dublicated by Medium Frames is void.
Because if that was the case, then why were you using a Scout in the first place? Why does anyone use a Scout?
So far, I've never heard an actual reason/ Apparently Scouts just like to purposely gimp themselves in this game, then complain about not having enough.

The reason we run scout is for the speed tank. Back when uprising just came out, speed tanking was a beauty with scouts.

Unfortunately now with AA and who knows what else, it's made speed tanking completely useless. Now it's all about hp tank.

Let me ask you. Does a 500 armor scout even count as a scout? Because that's the best fit so far for scouts. Straight up hp is the best for SCOUTS. Is that ok?

Just better stats will just reinforce the "Assault Lite" thing that we have. What they need is something that only scouts can do, perhaps cloaks eventually.

Until we have something like cloaks, this should do:

Minmatar Scout:
Scan Profile Buff (~25 db base)
RE radius bonus (+5% per level)

Gallente Scout:
Passive Scan Radius Buff (~35m base)
Active Scanner precision bonus(+5% per level)

Yes, it's fine.
You still get your Scout Bonuses, and you still have speed without having to use Kin-Cats. I was watched you that game, and you were faster than everyone else by far. I'm sorry, but saying a medium can do that is simply a lie. A medium nneds to use a slot for a Kin-Cat, you don't. And you get a much smaller hit box.

Chormosone hasn't been around for looooong while, and Uprising has been here for half a year... you say Scouts suck now, but still use them, and perform well in them? Doesn't answer WHY you're using this supposed gimped setup now. You told me why you used them back then, but why are you gimping yourself now?

According to you, if you had a Medium Frame you would have done even better playing that same style. You would have been magically faster, had more HP, and more power.... thanks for gimping yourself on purpose, buddy ole pal.

If AA was a factor than my HMG should have leveled you as intended... oh wait, if the it works in your favor its you being a beast and the other sucking, but if it doesn't work in your favor then the game needs to be fixed, right? Because you should never die? Do your deaths not count?

Sorry, none of your reasons have any merit. You struck out 3x in this thread. Some people actually posted reasonable things that they wanted. They didn't come up with the coded "I want more, I'm selfish, I shouldn't die ever in this game because my ego thinks I'm to good for it" gibberish that you have.

Using DJINN Marauder as the bar for the majority of Scouts is stupid. He is the equivalent of the Scout 1%. Last time I checked he was the #1 ranked Scout on the killboard. The majority of us don't do nearly as well as he does on the battlefield. He is right also. Medium suits are better suited to "scout" roles at this point in time.

Yes, it's fine.
You still get your Scout Bonuses, and you still have speed without having to use Kin-Cats. I was watched you that game, and you were faster than everyone else by far. I'm sorry, but saying a medium can do that is simply a lie. A medium nneds to use a slot for a Kin-Cat, you don't. And you get a much smaller hit box.

Chormosone hasn't been around for looooong while, and Uprising has been here for half a year... you say Scouts suck now, but still use them, and perform well in them? Doesn't answer WHY you're using this supposed gimped setup now. You told me why you used them back then, but why are you gimping yourself now?

According to you, if you had a Medium Frame you would have done even better playing that same style. You would have been magically faster, had more HP, and more power.... thanks for gimping yourself on purpose, buddy ole pal.

If AA was a factor than my HMG should have leveled you as intended... oh wait, if the it works in your favor its you being a beast and the other sucking, but if it doesn't work in your favor then the game needs to be fixed, right? Because you should never die? Do your deaths not count?

Sorry, none of your reasons have any merit. You struck out 3x in this thread. Some people actually posted reasonable things that they wanted. They didn't come up with the coded "I want more, I'm selfish, I shouldn't die ever in this game because my ego thinks I'm to good for it" gibberish that you have.

Wow, so not only is he considered one of the elite players in the game as it is, he's the most elite On Shotty GoBang's board... so that makes him the best DUST 514 player playing today, right?
So, the best DUST 514 player happens to run Scout, for no apparent reason than to give the rest of us noobs a chance at the game. What a swell guy he is.

What swell people ALL Scouts are... still, can anyone tell me WHY Scouts are being used if they need so much work?

I shot shot a Caldari scout today with a charged SCR shot, he still was able to survive, and dance around me and nail me dead with his Shotgun. Radar from Outer.Heaven I believe it was. What do you suppose is harder? Him jumoing around me spamming a shotgun, or me landing a Charged SCR shot on him? Did the game reward me for my superior skill? Nope, because his fragile Scout suit was able to survive it.

Simple as this. If mediums can do the job of a Scout better, than nobody would be using a Scout...

I ain't gonna lie. You sound more butt hurt about being shotgunned to death than anything. Also, hardly anyone uses Scouts. From what I read there are only about 250 of us I think that use the suit on a regular basis? There are how many Medium Suit users? Thousands at the very least. Your entire argument is invalid as logical fallacy anyway. Causation does not imply correlation. Meaning that just because you died to a superior player who is more skilled than you and just happened to be playing as a Scout doesn't mean the suit is fine and doesn't need a buff.

Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users.

Yes a medium has to use a kincat... So what? He uses a kincat 500+ shields with a proto shotty. Bam better than my build. He's faster, more hp too.

You keep saying I gimped myself and asking as to why... I'll tell you. It's because I hate using the norm. I hate using the FOTM. And I love doing well with the most underpowered things in games. I believe all people who run scouts are like this. That is why i will not stoop so low as run a medium frame. However if I got a respec... You bet damn well ill spec right into one.

I do well with my scout... I will not lie. However that's ME. Very few people can pull a scout off. Even fewer in PC. Which brings me to my next point. IT WAS A PUB MATCH!

Pub matches are terrible places for looking at balancing and determining what's OP and what isn't.

Just because I did good in ONE pub match doesn't mean the suit is fine. Because its not. Like I've been saying.. Medium frames can do what the scout does, better. I just want at LEAST one thing it can be better at..

You're half right. I do get upset when I out play a guy but still end up on the losing end. You can't win them all.

But the Scout has its Pros and Cons like everything else in this game. Its just scout users think that their suit shouldn't have any cons. They want more CPU/PG, they want more HP, they want more slots... they totally forget what they are getting into in the first place. Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users.

Here's an idea. I want my Assaults buffed. I want more HP, more speed, more CPU/PG. Forget that I already have list of things I can do more superior than Logis, Scouts, Commandos, and Sentinels... I need more. Logis can do my job just as effective as me actually, so I want extra equipment slots too. Its not fair... because... well I don't have a reason, but I say its not fair.

Why am I using Assault you say? Because back in Chromosome with stacked Damage Mods you were a beast. And it was by accident I went into Assault (Because some guy on here claimed him being a Scout was an accident that apparently he couldn't change until it was 4 million SP to late...). But now, since Uprising, they suck. My hitbox is to big, I only have one lousy equipment slot, I'm to slow compared to Scouts, and I don't have the HP that Heavies do. I need a slight buff...

Your turn, maybe you can do what nobody else can. answer me this. If scouts are in such need of rework then why do people use them now? Why do people use this Frame that apparently has no positives to it?

Are we even playing the same game? I would laugh but I'm pretty sure you are serious. Please pray tell us what these mystical roles that only a Scout can perform are?

1. Speed without Kin-Cats
2. Smaller hitboxes
3. Racial Scout Bonus
4. Scout Bonus
5. More Stealth(not much, but more)
6. Stamina without Cardiac Regulators
7. Jumps higher

So, I suppose the roles it would do better are:
1.Sneaking behind enemy lines (Maybe that's what its called a Scout) to plant equipment or Hack.
2. Closing range between enemies faster, making Shotguns (and other weapons) more effective too, thus providing yourself with a decent assault role, with the added defense of a smaller hitbox.
3. AV, because a Scout can chase down a HAV better, and cross terrian better because of the jumping ability.

Good enough for me...

Exactly what can scouts do better than medium frames? Name one please. Is it dampening? Well maybe but guess what.. To hide from a proto scanner... Scouts need to run prof dampers... Which mediums can run...and hey have more slots CPU/pg and more health... But you are capable of running around the scanners better

Is is speed? Nope minmitar medium is like .2-.3 slower than a scout. With alot more hp and slots. Its actually .35 faster Movement and .49 Sprint but who's using facts here anyway...

Is it scouting? Nope scouts have the same scan radius as mediums lol. But you're faster so you can get closer

Again you ask why people use scouts if mediums are better... It's because we're prideful. At least me anyways. I'm not gunna stoop as low as to ez mode assault suits... Not unless I get a respec. As to why? It's because I hate using the norm and the FOTM. Using the underpowered stuff has a certain shine to it. I understand this. That is why I use the SCR, that is why I play very aggressively myself, but how often do you run Scout solo? Using anything in a full proto squad doesn't have any shine to it, imo

Also when did we ask for hp?

There are a myriad of reasons why we chose to be scouts, probably a different one for each person.

How about let's simplify it.

We chose it because it was there -- it was an option. Why do people use any suit? Why did you choose whatever you chose? Before we break into the existential babble your line of questioning is heading towards, let's just leave it at that.

There have been many an argument raised day in and day out from Scouts who, from frustration, could've simply chosen to spend their future SP into the medium suit. But we don't because frankly, we don't want it. You obviously, aren't preview to all the woes that plague us, and you don't have a reason to. You're not one of us. You're a 'dabbler' at best.

However, many of us have spent their time gathering information, testing, collecting data -- both through metrics and qualitative in game observations. And in doing so able to construct valid arguments (and even counter arguments -- not all of us scouts agree on certain things) as to why the Scout class needs some love. So, if you're not a full fledge Scout nor haven't paid close attention to each thread raised by the Scout community through various posts containing all manner of rants, improvement ideas, raves, etc. Then feel free NOT to comment on our community's thrust into improving our chosen class.

As far as 'filling you in' is concerned, you should be thankful for the level headed and honest responses some have put on here. That they even gave you the time of day. That's the kind of community they are.


As far as Marauder wiping the floor with you, well, that's because he's better than you. You'll find that a lot of Scouts are.


As for me, I'm more inclined to sigh, roll my eyes at you, and tell you to: "STFU, stupid."



P.S.
Dammit Marauder, this is precisely why we can't have nice things! Geez.

1. 0.33 extra speed is meaningless unless you are sprinting for 100+ meters. A Duvolle will eat you alive in a second and with Aim Assist speed tanking is DEAD.
2. O rly? Equip a scout suit and try and sprint through a small opening. You can't do it because it is as big as a heavies
3. Completely useless for Minmatar at this point in time. Nova Knives are the most broken weapon in the game right now. Passive scanning is just as useless right now for different reasons so there goes Gallente's bonus.
4. Dampening bonus is a bit more useful but to be "invisible" you need to give up on your tank as a Gallente or Speed as a Minmatar. Doesn't work with Proto scanners either. Plus you need to spend millions of more SP vs what someone spent to get a proto scanner.
5. What stealth? See above.
6. LOL wut? Stamina was nerfed back in 1.2 I think it was.
7. Never noticed this when I play my Dragonfly Assault

Really, you have no idea what you are talking about.

EDIT: I'm going to go have a conversation with my dog now. I think it will be more productive. Have a good night lol...

the list goes on, and on, and on, and yet you're telling me that my class is to be subjugated to one play style, because of what, that's how YOU think WE should play?

HA ignorant, or arrogant, I can't tell which.

You're half right. I do get upset when I out play a guy but still end up on the losing end. You can't win them all.

But the Scout has its Pros and Cons like everything else in this game. Its just scout users think that their suit shouldn't have any cons. They want more CPU/PG, they want more HP, they want more slots... they totally forget what they are getting into in the first place. Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users.

Here's an idea. I want my Assaults buffed. I want more HP, more speed, more CPU/PG. Forget that I already have list of things I can do more superior than Logis, Scouts, Commandos, and Sentinels... I need more. Logis can do my job just as effective as me actually, so I want extra equipment slots too. Its not fair... because... well I don't have a reason, but I say its not fair.

Why am I using Assault you say? Because back in Chromosome with stacked Damage Mods you were a beast. And it was by accident I went into Assault (Because some guy on here claimed him being a Scout was an accident that apparently he couldn't change until it was 4 million SP to late...). But now, since Uprising, they suck. My hitbox is to big, I only have one lousy equipment slot, I'm to slow compared to Scouts, and I don't have the HP that Heavies do. I need a slight buff...

Your turn, maybe you can do what nobody else can. answer me this. If scouts are in such need of rework then why do people use them now? Why do people use this Frame that apparently has no positives to it?

Sigh.. I'm gunna stop posting here. Let me just say this though.

Most of the dust community agrees scouts need a buff. Even CCP themselves said they were going to give us some love in the future. Who knows when that'll be or in what form.

The reason for the above? It's because it's true. Scouts do need love.

Alright I'm done. I'm sorry for pub stomping you. I'm sorry for the game being a bit laggy and have hit detection being off in one encounter with you..which caused you to get recked by me. I'm sorry.

I just got out of a game against you, where your Scout walked right through my HMG and killed me from 3m away. You had 400 armor, and you were fast as hell(2x faster than your medium counter parts), and had plenty of killing power obviously...
Seems a whole heck of a lot more than any Medium Frame can do in this game...

Your argument is bullsh*t and void.

'pauses thread'

Finally did it. likes=1234 lol

'resumes thread'

I'd like to like this, but that would be a shame ;)

So, CCP needs to buff the Scout because you're pride won't let you use anything else? I'm sure you've made a fair share of SP in this game. Where did it all go that you can't build a superior Medium Frame?

Its just scout users think that their suit shouldn't have any cons. They want more CPU/PG, they want more HP, they want more slots... they totally forget what they are getting into in the first place. Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users.

Here's an idea. I want my Assaults buffed. I want more HP, more speed, more CPU/PG. Forget that I already have list of things I can do more superior than Logis, Scouts, Commandos, and Sentinels... I need more. Logis can do my job just as effective as me actually, so I want extra equipment slots too. Its not fair... because... well I don't have a reason, but I say its not fair. (...) If scouts are in such need of rework then why do people use them now? Why do people use this Frame that apparently has no positives to it?

Your turn, maybe you can do what nobody else can.

But, you still were able to survive an 200 rounds of an HMG and neutralize it. Buy since you're the best DUST player on the planet, I should be happy I went 6/5 against you're full squad. Maybe next time I won't use a Starter Fit than a Heavy, maybe I'll have to use my own Scout Build...

ing, I'm not even going to explain!

1. Speed without Kin-Cats
2. Smaller hitboxes
3. Racial Scout Bonus
4. Scout Bonus
5. More Stealth(not much, but more)
6. Stamina without Cardiac Regulators
7. Jumps higher

So, I suppose the roles it would do better are:
1.Sneaking behind enemy lines (Maybe that's what its called a Scout) to plant equipment or Hack.
2. Closing range between enemies faster, making Shotguns (and other weapons) more effective too, thus providing yourself with a decent assault role, with the added defense of a smaller hitbox.
3. AV, because a Scout can chase down a HAV better, and cross terrian better because of the jumping ability.

Good enough for me...

1. Speed without Kin-Cats
2. Smaller hitboxes
3. Racial Scout Bonus
4. Scout Bonus
5. More Stealth(not much, but more)
6. Stamina without Cardiac Regulators
7. Jumps higher

So, I suppose the roles it would do better are:
1.Sneaking behind enemy lines (Maybe that's what its called a Scout) to plant equipment or Hack.
2. Closing range between enemies faster, making Shotguns (and other weapons) more effective too, thus providing yourself with a decent assault role, with the added defense of a smaller hitbox.
3. AV, because a Scout can chase down a HAV better, and cross terrian better because of the jumping ability.

Good enough for me...

lol

How is you able to survive a full frontal HMG blasting you; me being bad at the game? I lit you up, and could barely even see you through my hitmarkers. But you were able to survive long enough to blast through 1200 HP....

dude sorry, the evidence doesn't lie. You're argument of saying Scouts can just be dublicated by Medium Frames is void.
Because if that was the case, then why were you using a Scout in the first place? Why does anyone use a Scout?
So far, I've never heard an actual reason/ Apparently Scouts just like to purposely gimp themselves in this game, then complain about not having enough.

Wow, so not only is he considered one of the elite players in the game as it is, he's the most elite On Shotty GoBang's board... so that makes him the best DUST 514 player playing today, right?
So, the best DUST 514 player happens to run Scout, for no apparent reason than to give the rest of us noobs a chance at the game. What a swell guy he is.

What swell people ALL Scouts are... still, can anyone tell me WHY Scouts are being used if they need so much work?

I shot shot a Caldari scout today with a charged SCR shot, he still was able to survive, and dance around me and nail me dead with his Shotgun. Radar from Outer.Heaven I believe it was. What do you suppose is harder? Him jumoing around me spamming a shotgun, or me landing a Charged SCR shot on him? Did the game reward me for my superior skill? Nope, because his fragile Scout suit was able to survive it.

Simple as this. If mediums can do the job of a Scout better, than nobody would be using a Scout...

You're half right. I do get upset when I out play a guy but still end up on the losing end. You can't win them all.

But the Scout has its Pros and Cons like everything else in this game. Its just scout users think that their suit shouldn't have any cons. They want more CPU/PG, they want more HP, they want more slots... they totally forget what they are getting into in the first place. Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users.

Here's an idea. I want my Assaults buffed. I want more HP, more speed, more CPU/PG. Forget that I already have list of things I can do more superior than Logis, Scouts, Commandos, and Sentinels... I need more. Logis can do my job just as effective as me actually, so I want extra equipment slots too. Its not fair... because... well I don't have a reason, but I say its not fair.

Why am I using Assault you say? Because back in Chromosome with stacked Damage Mods you were a beast. And it was by accident I went into Assault (Because some guy on here claimed him being a Scout was an accident that apparently he couldn't change until it was 4 million SP to late...). But now, since Uprising, they suck. My hitbox is to big, I only have one lousy equipment slot, I'm to slow compared to Scouts, and I don't have the HP that Heavies do. I need a slight buff...

Your turn, maybe you can do what nobody else can. answer me this. If scouts are in such need of rework then why do people use them now? Why do people use this Frame that apparently has no positives to it?

Please direct me to the thread(s) where you've seen a majority of participating scouts all state that they want more HP, more speed AND more CPU/PG. It doesn't count if one scout wants more HP and another one wants more speed and a slight CPU/PG increase.

I personally want a slight speed increase and a useful base scan range. OR an extra equipment slot and a a CPU/PG buff to go with it. I certainly don't want an HP increase, I'm content with the meagre 300 total EHP I run on my advanced and proto gallente scout - if other aspects are improved.

One thing I will disagree wityh is the extra CPU/PG and extra Equipment slot (think Caldari Logi) because what's to stop a Player from not using the equipment, but tanking more HP, or Speed, or Damage, or whatever on the Frame? You could turn a Scout into an Assault but with the added speed and smaller hitbox.

I'm not following your thinking here.

Are you saying scouts shouldn't be able to put good gear in the slots they do have?

Until you get to proto you are very limited in slots and CPU/PG. Adding an extra equipment slot is not going to allow people to tank more -- they still have the crappy non-equipment layout they have now.

On the proto, the suit has better CPU/PG but still has one equipment slot. Giving it an extra equipment slot will have nothing to do with what someone may decide to tank.

Edit: It would be nice to allow a scout to have ammo/hives as well as some other type of equipment since they are often roaming around locations far away from other hives or supply depots.

=ƒæè=ƒÆñ=ƒÆñ=ƒÆñyou got knockdafukOuttt!

Even on a Protosuit, you can't fit all Proto gear, it won't fit, and you can't be diversified.
Instead of using the Extra CPU/PG to fill equipment, you could use it to stack all Proto mods, making yourself overly effective(possibly OP)

I've read through this entire thread and seen all sorts of BS said.

The undeniable fact of the matter is that a mini logi can do anything any scout suit can do and still have more eHP and carry extra equipment.
Let's look at some stats (assuming max skills):
Logi mk0 -
512 CPU
102 PG
299 eHP
4 low slots
4 high slots
4 equipment slots
7.35m/s sprint
5hp/s built in repair
45db Scan Profile

Scout mk0 -
210 less CPU
23 less PG
87 less eHP
2 less low slots
1 less high slot
3 less equipment slots
0.96 more sprint speed
5hp/s less built in repair
14.63db lower profile

Scout gk0 -
184 less CPU
23 less PG
50 less eHP
Same low slots
3 less high slots
3 less equipment slots
0.66 more sprint speed
5hp/s less built in repair
14.63db lower profile
7.5m extra passive scan radius

Taking into consideration the extra slots and CPU/PG the logi has, every single benefit that the scout suits have can easily be surpassed with mods. 1 complex kincat gets more speed than the galscout and just less than the minscout. 1 complex range amp gets 0.75m less scan range than the galscout. 1 complex profile dampener gets very nearly the same profile as any scout.

That is how easy it is to be just as good as a scout at scouting with many slots, CPU and PG left over, as well as being able to carry 3 extra pieces of equipment, so you can effectively scout by running an active scanner and uplinks. Oh and don't forget your extra free built in complex repper and extra hack speed, so you're even a better infiltrator!

So, whatever you think isn't wrong with the scouts is irrelevant - with the way they currently are, they are pointless.

Rifle, are the reason your all scared if we get any love, an tbh you should be cuz when we're fixed we're gonna be a nasty bunch

1) So, you want CCP to take time to figure out how to utilize your roles better in a game that you only take up 1% of the population?

2) Get to the back of the line...

3) Shotty, quite frankly you're seen as some "Scout Hero"

4) ... you're just a guy that complains because he always wants more, because his neighbor has it...

Consider the extent of Scout Nerfs since Chromosome:

• Our Slot Configs were directly nerfed
• Our EQ Slots were directly nerfed
• Our PG/CPU outputs directly were nerfed
• Our Scan Radius was directly were nerfed
• Our Stamina pool was directly nerfed
• Our Base Speeds were directly nerfed
• Our Alpha potential was indirectly nerfed (with massive buffs to medium/heavy eHP)
• Our Evasive abilities were indirectly nerfed (by improved hitscan mechanics)
• Our Hitbox advantage was indirectly nerfed (by aim assist)
• Our Mobility advantage was indirectly nerfed (with buffs to non-scout mobility)
• Our Strafe advantage was indirectly nerfed (with buffs to non-scout strafe speed)
• Our Tools of assassination were nerfed and broken (SG / NK detection remains unreliable)

The "Buff Scout" threads of early Uprising were welcome and supported (even by non-Scouts). When our ranks dwindled and our performance sagged, even CCP acknowledged the problem. Cmdr Wang promised future Dev Hugs, and every build since we have waited. Everyone agreed that the Scout was sick and needed something substantial.

Five builds later, we've all become more and more accustomed to the Scout imbalance. AR-514's sense of entitlement has been nurtured and encouraged. It took some time to take hold, but now the "Scouts aren't supposed to kill" mentality is commonplace. So much so, that when a Top 100 player -- who happens to be a Scout -- smashed someone, that someone stomped off to the forums in protest...

"How dare a Scout be able to kill me?"

---

We Scouts have adapted and the TacNet changes have helped. But our blades remain dull, our suits remain imbalanced, and our roles remain better performed by others.

• We account for only 3-5% of the playerbase and only 2% of the Top 100.
• 38% of us (including CPM Nova Knife) have been largely inactive in 1.5.
• 25% of us haven't bothered to play 1.5 at all.
• 75% of newbro Scouts give up before reaching 1,000 kills.

The Scout is still sick, and more work must be done. We're very much looking forward to a meaningful buff, whether or not AR-514 thinks it appropriate.

I am starting to think we have all been taken for some epic trolling here. No one can be as stupid or as blind as the OP while deliberately ignoring the evidence presented which clearly states the point that Scouts need dire attention. The OP's points of view change from poster to poster and he has no solid footing or evidence to back up his claims besides his own bias.

If this isn't an epic trolling attempt i'm going to say it is one of the biggest cases of butt hurt I have seen in a while.

I am starting to think we have all been taken for some epic trolling here. No one can be as stupid or as blind as the OP while deliberately ignoring the evidence presented which clearly states the point that Scouts need dire attention. The OP's points of view change from poster to poster and he has no solid footing or evidence to back up his claims besides his own bias.

If this isn't an epic trolling attempt i'm going to say it is one of the biggest cases of butt hurt I have seen in a while.

Of course you are. Because while everyone has to play tactically, you'll get to treat the game like Call of Duty, which is basically what all Scouts really want...

Battlefield and Call of Duty are that way <-----

Couldn't the same be about you too? Or wait, if you state it, its true just because, right? If you want your scouts to preform like Call of Duty playstyle, then allow Assaults the same, you can die in three shots with every gun in the game, sound fair?

Because that's all scouts want. They don't want to sacrifice anything in this game.
How come Heavies don't get a buff then? They are reduced to glorified campers...

Go back to Call of Duty, where you can run around with your shotgun there and be effective. Sorry, but a large, tactical, open map FPS isn't Scout friendly, and never can be.
According to scouts: The only time they were ever supposedly effective was in Chromosome where they actually weren't effective, it was just an exploit in the game mechanics.

So, you want your exploit back? Then let everyone have their exploits back too.

Not that I care a whole lot anyway...

Couldn't the same be about you too? Or wait, if you state it, its true just because, right? If you want your scouts to preform like Call of Duty playstyle, then allow Assaults the same, you can die in three shots with every gun in the game, sound fair?

Because that's all scouts want. They don't want to sacrifice anything in this game.
How come Heavies don't get a buff then? They are reduced to glorified campers...

Go back to Call of Duty, where you can run around with your shotgun there and be effective. Sorry, but a large, tactical, open map FPS isn't Scout friendly, and never can be.
According to scouts: The only time they were ever supposedly effective was in Chromosome where they actually weren't effective, it was just an exploit in the game mechanics.

So, you want your exploit back? Then let everyone have their exploits back too.

Not that I care a whole lot anyway...

I am starting to think we have all been taken for some epic trolling here. No one can be as stupid or as blind as the OP while deliberately ignoring the evidence presented which clearly states the point that Scouts need dire attention. The OP's points of view change from poster to poster and he has no solid footing or evidence to back up his claims besides his own bias.

If this isn't an epic trolling attempt i'm going to say it is one of the biggest cases of butt hurt I have seen in a while.

Doubtful, sadly. And representative of many AR-514.

Content with imbalance, if and only if it works in his favor.
Eager to defend and perpetuate his undue advantage.
Unable to comprehend facts which threaten his entitlement.
Liberated from reason and incapable of debate.
Well aware that he moves among superior opponent.
Overcome by emotion and fearful of a balanced Scout.

We can draw your tears as is, OP.
Imagine what we'll accomplish once we're balanced.

Go back to Call of Duty, where you can run around with your shotgun there and be effective. Sorry, but a large, tactical, open map FPS isn't Scout friendly, and never can be.
According to scouts: The only time they were ever supposedly effective was in Chromosome where they actually weren't effective, it was just an exploit in the game mechanics.

So, you want your exploit back? Then let everyone have their exploits back too.

Not that I care a whole lot anyway...

you chose Scout and stuck with it.

This forum has a few themes right now: Nerf the AR, Patch want/needs, and Scout suit modifications.

I see that people who are using Scouts are not happy with what little they have to work with. They want more equipment slots, or more CPU, and more speed, etc...

I thought the purpose of light frames was to be stripped down suits that purposely can perform LESS simultaneous functions on the battlefield. They are like the opposites of Logi or Heavies I thought?

Scouts have speed and stealth, which means they run around the back of the enemy and plant Uplinks to ambush the enemy, sneak to an objective and begin hacking it, scan the holy sh*t out of everything, and maybe get a few kills then run for cover again. Or, they actually scout the enemy and use a mic to tell their team where they are at.

I know some people use them for shotguns, because you need every advantage you can get with those broken guns, and the fact that hitboxes sway terribly in this game makes Scouts very effective when they are dancing all around you. Bullets shoot right through them like they are ghosts; but they die instantly if they are 10 metes away from you... I can't tell you how many times I catch a Scout in the open, in the thick of the battlefield running head on right at me, and all I can think is "really dude, props for trying, but you're dead... NOW" I shoot, they die. sometimes I even have o back up 5 steps. This is an example of a scout playing foolishly to there equipment function.


So, Why are Scout users asking for more, when their frames are specifically made to do less? This doesn't mean they aren't effective, they just have different roles. Sure, Heavies would like to have equipment slots so they can stand on Triages, Logis would like sidearms AND more slots, mediums would like to have Scout speed without sacrificing health and stealth themselves. I personally would like more to my Caldari Medium frames(and yes I use the SCR w/ Caldari because I'm stubborn) but that's all in the name of balance.

I never used an actual Scout frame before; only Basic Light. I do fine with them of what can be expected. I hack more objectives, and I get more support WP. In fact, I'll leave with this example:

The only time I ever played General John Ripper and Levi Thunder our team was destined to get stomped. I was having a terrible day with connections, so I was only using free fits that day. One of them was The Gallente Hunter Fit, a stealth(ish) Light frame. As expected, my team was getting destroyed in a hurry, we went down by 15 clones in the first 2 minutes. So, I put on my light frame, and ran all the way around the map, and climbed up a wall and planted Uplinks right behind them. So ever death from there on, they got ambushed. I then ran all the way around them again and did it to them a 2nd, and 3rd time.
I finished 2/4 but had 1200+ in Uplinks because I placed them in detrimental positions for the enemy. I called in my HAV (and actually left it there for my team to drive) and before you know it, we won the match. All thanks to ME! All thanks to using a Light Suit as intended.

One thing I will disagree wityh is the extra CPU/PG and extra Equipment slot (think Caldari Logi) because what's to stop a Player from not using the equipment, but tanking more HP, or Speed, or Damage, or whatever on the Frame? You could turn a Scout into an Assault but with the added speed and smaller hitbox.
.

Scenario A:
Newbro AR-514 spots Proto Scout.
Guns him down in an instant, as the Scout made a mistake.

Scenario B:
Newbro Scout sneaks up behind Proto AR-514.
Stabs or Shotguns his mark in the back, but dies instantly when mark turns around.

Conclusion:
Perfectly planned and executed assassinations often fail.
Hit-and-run / stealth playstyle is imbalanced.
Perhaps this is why 75% of newbro Scouts quit Dust after graduating the Academy.

Question:
Why is this OK?

I understand

Read the example at the end of my post. I used equipment, and had nothing to tank onto my HP. I was paper mache'. That's why I had to take the very long way around the enemy so I wasn't spotted, because I had zero chance in a fire fight. My role wasn't to get kills. That's why we have Assaults and Scouts. One is made to kill, the other is made to... scout

One is made to kill, the other is made to... scout

You guys are taking this suit too seriously and blaming the suit and not the user, the scout suit isn't the easiest suit to play,in most cases the reason the scout dies is from personal mistakes(or lack of experience) either from the users failure to execute assassinations or lack of situational awareness which put him in those situations where he is killed.Don't expect newberry bros to know is head from his ass fresh out of academy to play scout well,it's not entry level and anyone getting into scout suits should know what their in for,puting your balls on the line with the risk of death higher than any other suit but for great profit/thrill,IF you know how to play it.

The reason we run scout is for the speed tank. Back when uprising just came out, speed tanking was a beauty with scouts.

Unfortunately now with AA and who knows what else, it's made speed tanking completely useless. Now it's all about hp tank.

Let me ask you. Does a 500 armor scout even count as a scout? Because that's the best fit so far for scouts. Straight up hp is the best for SCOUTS. Is that ok?

So, you want CCP to take time to figure out how to utilize your roles better in a game that you only take up 1% of the population?
Get to the back of the line...

Shotty, quite frankly you're seen as some "Scout Hero" when you're just a guy that complains because he always wants more, because his neighbor has it...

The reason why we're so small of the population is because our **** is UP dip hit. And go to the back of what line? You want a better medium frame scrub?

No, I wanted more important things to be fixed. Like rendering issues, hit detection, lag, match making, software time, etc...

Scout should get 20-30 meter scan radius, reduction to active scanner CPU and PG usage, a smaller profile radius, more CPU and PG, 2 equip slots, and maybe some more highs or lows.

Damn, what a run-on.

Hid in the city of the gallente science facility.
Protected an objective the intire game and killed the same person at least 10 times. We eventually lost the objective because the team never was able to defend/capture the other ones. So I became swamped with raspberries .

My opinion of the scout role.
Due to lack of available communication options the actual option to scout isn't likely. The active scanner is only helpful while scouting to your squad.
Defending an objective is one of my favorite things to do as a scout. My profile makes me hard to track and my, usually higher, speed lets me rush around corners and to objectives to assassinate someone hacking. The active scanner is the perfect tool for this. But because the scout is an independent role at most times you might run our of ammo easily making you useless.
Scouts need a speed/stamina, profile/precision/radius, and small(slight) PG/CPU buff and then they will be fine.
But I honestly don't think adding a second equipment slot would hurt or make the scout OP.

Scout should get 20-30 meter scan radius, reduction to active scanner CPU and PG usage, a smaller profile radius, more CPU and PG, 2 equip slots, and maybe some more highs or lows.

Damn, what a run-on.

if our weapons were as reliable as a scr or AR everyone would say its op and if they ever fix it permanently , i promise you.

Here's some irony from your post.

"our weapons"?

Scouts are low-power, low-cpu suits, right?
According to that, AR and SCR, *are* "our weapons".

Proto scrambler PISTOL: 48/8 CPU/Power
ADV AR (eg: GEK): 47/6


ADV scrambler PISTOL: 27/5
(or the NICE one, TT-3, 34/7

std AR: 23/3
std SCR: 29/11

ANd then there's the ultimate scout weapon. Knives. light weight, low power. Right?
Except that even just the ADV knives, take 27/5. Proto is 48/8.

MORE RESOURCE DRAIN THAN AN AR. And why do knives, need "cpu" ?!?!???


ANYONE NOT SEE A PROBLEM HERE???

MORE RESOURCE DRAIN THAN AN AR. And why do knives, need "cpu" ?!?!???


ANYONE NOT SEE A PROBLEM HERE???

And why do knives, need "cpu" ?!?!???

Here's some irony from your post.

"our weapons"?

Scouts are low-power, low-cpu suits, right?
According to that, AR and SCR, *are* "our weapons".

Proto scrambler PISTOL: 48/8 CPU/Power
ADV AR (eg: GEK): 47/6


ADV scrambler PISTOL: 27/5
(or the NICE one, TT-3, 34/7

std AR: 23/3
std SCR: 29/11

ANd then there's the ultimate scout weapon. Knives. light weight, low power. Right?
Except that even just the ADV knives, take 27/5. Proto is 48/8.

MORE RESOURCE DRAIN THAN AN AR. And why do knives, need "cpu" ?!?!???


ANYONE NOT SEE A PROBLEM HERE???

Looks like the OPs corp name is apt as he has as much sence and intelligence as a 2nd grader.

This forum has a few themes right now: Nerf the AR, Patch want/needs, and Scout suit modifications.

I see that people who are using Scouts are not happy with what little they have to work with. They want more equipment slots, or more CPU, and more speed, etc...

I thought the purpose of light frames was to be stripped down suits that purposely can perform LESS simultaneous functions on the battlefield. They are like the opposites of Logi or Heavies I thought?

Scouts have speed and stealth, which means they run around the back of the enemy and plant Uplinks to ambush the enemy, sneak to an objective and begin hacking it, scan the holy sh*t out of everything, and maybe get a few kills then run for cover again. Or, they actually scout the enemy and use a mic to tell their team where they are at.

I know some people use them for shotguns, because you need every advantage you can get with those broken guns, and the fact that hitboxes sway terribly in this game makes Scouts very effective when they are dancing all around you. Bullets shoot right through them like they are ghosts; but they die instantly if they are 10 metes away from you... I can't tell you how many times I catch a Scout in the open, in the thick of the battlefield running head on right at me, and all I can think is "really dude, props for trying, but you're dead... NOW" I shoot, they die. sometimes I even have o back up 5 steps. This is an example of a scout playing foolishly to there equipment function.


So, Why are Scout users asking for more, when their frames are specifically made to do less? This doesn't mean they aren't effective, they just have different roles. Sure, Heavies would like to have equipment slots so they can stand on Triages, Logis would like sidearms AND more slots, mediums would like to have Scout speed without sacrificing health and stealth themselves. I personally would like more to my Caldari Medium frames(and yes I use the SCR w/ Caldari because I'm stubborn) but that's all in the name of balance.

I never used an actual Scout frame before; only Basic Light. I do fine with them of what can be expected. I hack more objectives, and I get more support WP. In fact, I'll leave with this example:

The only time I ever played General John Ripper and Levi Thunder our team was destined to get stomped. I was having a terrible day with connections, so I was only using free fits that day. One of them was The Gallente Hunter Fit, a stealth(ish) Light frame. As expected, my team was getting destroyed in a hurry, we went down by 15 clones in the first 2 minutes. So, I put on my light frame, and ran all the way around the map, and climbed up a wall and planted Uplinks right behind them. So ever death from there on, they got ambushed. I then ran all the way around them again and did it to them a 2nd, and 3rd time.
I finished 2/4 but had 1200+ in Uplinks because I placed them in detrimental positions for the enemy. I called in my HAV (and actually left it there for my team to drive) and before you know it, we won the match. All thanks to ME! All thanks to using a Light Suit as intended.

You know there is actually a 3 step process dealing with people you think are wrong.

1. You think they are ignorant.
-That was everyone's first step, they thought I was simply misinformed. Many on here have provided me information in order to correct my ignorance in Scouts. I learned a lot about them, and tried to apply it to my own understanding. I left many likes and responses on here agreeing with some of these changes, but overall I didn't feel it was warrant enough to change the Scout as it is right now.

2. After information is provided, and the person still doesn't agree, they are simply an idiot.
-I got called an idiot on this thread left and right. Because I was unable to simply understand the point of view of Scouts, I was called a moron. I understand what drawbacks the Scout/Light has, and I still didn't agree that they should be changed right now. Or, that there changes were needed in the game at this time.

3. Lastly, the person is deemed informed, and intelligent enough to understand it, so they are simply evil. They are lying.
-Eventually I got called names, and was labeled a Troll, because no other explanation could represent my point of view and assessment. Me being right, even just a little bit, was a notion that could not be entertained, I had to be going about this whole thread with deceitful intentions. One guy on here said that eventually I would be referenced to Adolf ******. People on here started labeling my personality with evil traits. I was doing this thread simply because I was an a**hole.

Here's a reference link if you want.


Long... looooooong thread short. I agree with some changes that can be made to Scout, but at the end of the day the Scout is so close to the center-line of effective versus OP. I think they are about as balanced as you can get in this game without pushing them over the edge to OP. If the changes people are wanting are slight, then why have them at all? What is so detrimental about having them stay the same? They are hard to use, but also have the ability to puke wrecksauce on opponents if put in the right hands.
Broken game mechanics aside (this is a content balance issue) Scouts may be hard mode, but so is the SCR, Plasma Cannon, etc... but placed the right hands... they devastate. Instead of worrying about wanting more, why not try to unlock the Scouts potential first? If you feel you already have unlocked that potential (like the list on Shotty's Leaderboard seem to have done) then how can you complain? How can you complain having a 3 K/D in the hardest frame? How can you complain topping leaderboards? How can you want more if you're already considered some of the best DUST Players on the planet?

Look at it from both sides, objectively, without selfishness. You can actually learn a lot on this forum, not just about the game but humans in general...

You guys are taking this suit too seriously and blaming the suit and not the user, the scout suit isn't the easiest suit to play,in most cases the reason the scout dies is from personal mistakes(or lack of experience) either from the users failure to execute assassinations or lack of situational awareness which put him in those situations where he is killed.Don't expect newberry bros to know is head from his ass fresh out of academy to play scout well,it's not entry level and anyone getting into scout suits should know what their in for,puting your balls on the line with the risk of death higher than any other suit but for great profit/thrill,IF you know how to play it.

Look at it from both sides, objectively, without selfishness. You can actually learn a lot on this forum, not just about the game but humans in general...

The argument is not that a good scout player can't do well in a battle. The problem is that when you do make all things equal a player of the same level of skill in a different suit would always do better than a scout. Scout is not good at anything besides being the hard mode.

Yeah, I gather its hard... but so what? Every game has that "hard mode" whether it be a Game like GTA5 that you select which difficulty you want to play on, or you play Black Ops 2 and use the KSG, or use the Plasma Cannon or SCR in DUST. You choose to play the hard mode, so why complain when you lose?
Scouts aren't broken, their playerbase (which has already proven themselves more than adequate at the game) just wants more.
I know WHAT they want in terms of fixes. I know HOW they want the fixes to work and be implemented. But WHY?

Greed like that is what destroys playerbases. And with only 5000 DUST-ers, they aren't that far from destroying themselves... if CCP doesn't do it first. There has been argument for every weapon, setup, and whatever else in this game that has been asked to get nerfed or buffed- it never stops! BALANCE IS IMPOSSIBLE and always will be. Something has to be cast out and labeled as hard. It comes down to one side wanting more for themselves to have some sort of advantage over another and not want to play on hard.

Players don't like hard. DUST players hate hard. As soon as something gets hard, they cry for re-work. They Protostomp to avoid hard. They exploit every advantage to avoid hard. Nobody likes to chose hard. But for the few that do, remember its a CHOICE. But to sit on here as proclaimed masters of hard and yet ask for more???

That's like Michael Jordan (Kobe Bryant and Lebron James for you kids) asking his shoes be lighter so he jump higher, and the hoop lowers 1m every time he has possession of the ball... He already stands out as the best among the best, but its just never going to be good enough... he wants to keep tweeking a few micro improvements out of the game strictly for himself.

Which would you rather run

A 300 HP scout

or

A 700 HP Logi that is better at everything a scout does and more

Both are around the same price

See that big long post you quoted that I wrote? see the part about choice? see the part that Scout is choice? No you probably missed it, because like a lot of people on this board you skimmed through and decided to respond to one part of the post and ignore the rest, because it contradicted whatever it was that you wanted to say...

In this case, the part I wrote about Scouts being hard and that they were a choice. the fact that you respond with a post that is giving me choice, I'll assume you didn't read the post.

So what would you choose?

An Gallente Assault with Brick and Damge Stacks, 800 HP with an AR

or

An Amarr Sentinel with with damage mods and shields, 800 HP with an AR

Remember we got only one equipment and i like the idea about the scouting the enemy but most players don't use a mic and that is too risky just to tell the squad where they are. Remember galante only got a few low slots for either speed or stealth and minmatar is kinda assault-ish due to shield but galante scout is faster and better at stealth so i'm not sure why people are going minmatar scout.

PS: You'd know what we feel if you had scout.

See that big long post you quoted that I wrote? see the part about choice? see the part that Scout is choice? No you probably missed it, because like a lot of people on this board you skimmed through and decided to respond to one part of the post and ignore the rest, because it contradicted whatever it was that you wanted to say...

In this case, the part I wrote about Scouts being hard and that they were a choice. the fact that you respond with a post that is giving me choice, I'll assume you didn't read the post.

So what would you choose?

An Gallente Assault with Brick and Damge Stacks, 800 HP with an AR

or

An Amarr Sentinel with with damage mods and shields, 800 HP with an AR

I have missed the majority of the thread but from this page alone, your constructs are all screwed up

what prevents me from using that excuse on anything UP or OP? Why should have flaylocks been nerfed? Or the HMG for that matter? Or Vehicles? Why was the laser rifle buffed back up again?

Could I not just use the excuse that the other tasks were hard / easy mode?

What separates OP/UP imbalances from your arbitrary acceptability of hard/easy mode?

I'd love to hear the answer to this one

umm i went around and knife an entire squad in the back and i wasnt "scouting". umm does that mean im doing it wrong or do i just "suck"?

See that big long post you quoted that I wrote? see the part about choice? see the part that Scout is choice? No you probably missed it, because like a lot of people on this board you skimmed through and decided to respond to one part of the post and ignore the rest, because it contradicted whatever it was that you wanted to say...

In this case, the part I wrote about Scouts being hard and that they were a choice. the fact that you respond with a post that is giving me choice, I'll assume you didn't read the post.

So what would you choose?

An Gallente Assault with Brick and Damge Stacks, 800 HP with an AR

or

An Amarr Sentinel with with damage mods and shields, 800 HP with an AR

The term UP doesn't apply to Scouts, because Shotty has a nice list of really good players that obviously prove that Scouts aren't the case for being UP.

So, Scouts are hard mode. Always were.

What separates OP/UP imbalances from your arbitrary acceptability of hard/easy mode?

OP- means it has no counters or balance against it. NOT something very effective but still with counters.
UP- means it can't be used in the game towards a positive outcome. NOT something people can still win matches with.

SHOOTER BALANCE IS IMPOSSIBLE, no game has ever done it. No game can ever do it. Eventually things are in the game that are hard. Some are easy. You choose what you want to do, mostly for the sake of bragging rights.

Why should have flaylocks been nerfed? Or the HMG for that matter? Or Vehicles? Why was the laser rifle buffed back up again? Could I not just use the excuse that the other tasks were hard / easy mode?

I took the liberty of pulling out the fluff and applying the material to the original questions, but since they were not really addressed in any concise manner, well go through a set of inferences with your paragraphs.

Because killing is a secondary function for a Scout?

Since you like to break things down, so you don't have to reference the information as a whole, I'll break it down for you for you too; you seem to understand it. Make sure you catch the graph at the end

1. You didn't prove that Scouts were UP, by my definition, and anyone's definition. You HAVE proven that they can be less effective. Less effective is not the same thing as UP. By the measuring standards in this game (WP and ISK Profit aka- make money, f*ck b*tches) Scouts have proven that they are capable of doing this well as other dropsuit setups. How ever they achieve that success is up to them.

2. Eventually, the balancing will have to stop, because achieving it is impossible(especially in a game like DUST where you strive to obtain and advantage). Eventually things have to be categorized as Easy/Medium/Hard if you want to compare them respectively to each other. Trying to give scouts equality (move them the to the Medium/Easy mode category) but keeping DUST the same overall format (Make money, f*ck b*tches) will only end in failure. Something has to stay in hard mode. Scouts seem to be that poor redheaded step-child because of the landscape of the game.

3. I made a nice chart using a fine graphics programs. Basically, all the content in the game should (or come comes close to trying) break down on the chart as far as difficulty. If it's all the way to the left, its UP, if its all the way to the right its OP. Scouts are in the 2.5%. They are close to UP, but still lands on the chart of of how effective and difficult it is to use. BooYa!

If something lands between Hard-Easy, it is not in need of rework. FPS players have to accept this, and have a model to base this on... otherwise factions get greedy or other factions want those factions to get nerfed...
I'm not calling for a Scout nerf, or buff. I'm saying that they are not UP, nor OP. They are hard, but still playable the way they are in this game.
Same argument is said for the Plasma Cannon, SCR, Shotgun, MLT/STD HAVs. Truth be told, the Flaylock and Md were nerfed because people cried to much. The weapons were fine, but people wanted them nerfed on principle. (Flaylocks were secondaries, thus should outdo Primaries... MDs don't need aim, thus they shouldn't out do SCRs and ARs)

1. You didn't prove that Scouts were UP, by my definition, and anyone's definition. You HAVE proven that they can be less effective. Less effective is not the same thing as UP. By the measuring standards in this game (WP and ISK Profit aka- make money, f*ck b*tches) Scouts have proven that they are capable of doing this well as other dropsuit setups. How ever they achieve that success is up to them.

2. Eventually, the balancing will have to stop, because achieving it is impossible(especially in a game like DUST where you strive to obtain and advantage). Eventually things have to be categorized as Easy/Medium/Hard if you want to compare them respectively to each other. Trying to give scouts equality (move them the to the Medium/Easy mode category) but keeping DUST the same overall format (Make money, f*ck b*tches) will only end in failure. Something has to stay in hard mode. Scouts seem to be that poor redheaded step-child because of the landscape of the game.

BooYa![/url]

1. if the scout suit is less effective, it is under performing against other suits that can do it's role a lot better. your just using "if he can kill in a scout suit, it's must not be UP" and think you are entitled to be right based on some people who learned some tactics, which can be done be any suit. if you want to measure WP and isk payout (which doesn't make any sense), then you must first use numbers from each game instead of just 1, as the numbers constantly change. don't use public matches either as they can skew your numbers since people aren't as good in pub matches.

2. if balance is impossible to achieve, why make the game at all if it's doomed to fail from the start? this game can achieve balance if done right, but everything needs to be looked over to see what is being used and how much. this game is only easy/hard as you want to make it, not by which suit you choose. don't confuse easy/hard with types of suits used, but instead with how you go about your tactics, since that is what determines how you do.

3. how did you make that chart? what numbers did you use? how did you get all the info for it?

How is you able to survive a full frontal HMG blasting you; me being bad at the game? I lit you up, and could barely even see you through my hitmarkers. But you were able to survive long enough to blast through 1200 HP....

dude sorry, the evidence doesn't lie. You're argument of saying Scouts can just be dublicated by Medium Frames is void.
Because if that was the case, then why were you using a Scout in the first place? Why does anyone use a Scout?
So far, I've never heard an actual reason/ Apparently Scouts just like to purposely gimp themselves in this game, then complain about not having enough.