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ShinyJay
RETR0 PR0 GAMERS
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 00:44:00 -
[181] - Quote
8213 wrote:ShinyJay wrote:[quote=8213][quote=Oswald Rehnquist]
you also fail to bring in your own reasons why a scout doesn't need to be buffed, but instead use posts from others to try and back up your claim. maybe you are the one who missed points and not them. i play a scout suit a lot to learn different tactics and because i love the play style of it. i don't like that my role can be done by everything else much more effectively, in turn making my role as a scout ineffective. you tell me good sir, what is the role of a scout? follow up question for when you answer, can other suits do a scout's role effectively? My points and reasons were made in the 1st post of this thread, and well throughout it. Comparing yourself to the guy next to you gets you nowhere. At the end, you have to only look at yourself and judge it based on its own merits. Can a Medium do a Scouts job better? YES. Can a Heavy do a Medium's job better? YES. Can Logis do an Assaults job better? YES. The comparison model doesn't work, because then we would only have 1 suit, 1 weapon, no skills, 1 module, etc... (pssst... watch the video) I've already listed what advantages Scouts have in this game, that no other Frame has; big and small. I listed what roles they can do; big and small. Do your research and actually read it and think about it this time. Its on you to inform yourself of what I've said, my points, and the points of others in this thread. Stop making me repeat myself because you only skimmed bits and pieces and I have to fill you in on what you missed... If you have something to add to this thread, besides the comparison argument, then please do so already. Something new. Something that is going to make me say "gee, Scouts could use this, or that..." Others on here have done it (not that you would know that because you don't actually read and research anything) so it can be done.
the whole point of the comparison was to show you that a scout's role can be done by any other suit, but the scout can't do those other suit's role effectively. you have stated what a scout can do, yes, but not it's intended role. i did my research as i play a scout, a medium frame suit and a heavy (mostly scout). did you do your research? and i don't mean 1 game's worth of research, but 5 or more games. completely immerse yourself in the scout suit in all those games then come back and tell us how you feel scouts are. all i ever see are people who say "this suit is fine" or "that weapon is OP" without much effort put into it or only 1 games worth of playing. if you can't be bothered to dedicate more 5 games of playing as a scout, then you are just some nobody who thinks he is right |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
929
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Posted - 2013.10.23 00:53:00 -
[182] - Quote
Forget 5 games, play it for a week with something other than a rifle |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
295
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Posted - 2013.10.23 00:54:00 -
[183] - Quote
HOW TO USE THE SCOUT SUIT PROPERLY:
Don't.
Snag an Assualt or Amarr Logi. and you could have more slots, ehp, same speed and stamina, and a low scan profile. And with 1-2 extra equipment slots. With native repair! |
Sollemnis Aelinos
89th IMMORTAL ORDER
101
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Posted - 2013.10.23 01:38:00 -
[184] - Quote
8213 wrote:Sollemnis Aelinos wrote:umm i went around and knife an entire squad in the back and i wasnt "scouting". umm does that mean im doing it wrong or do i just "suck"? Nope, you were using the Scout as intended. But you're not allowed to be successful in the Scout, because then it shows that the Setup can be effective and in fact doesn't need any re-work right now. Shame on you for getting kills in a scout suit! You're not helping the SCOUT BUFF CAUSE! Do poorly with it, then people will think it sucks, that way you can get your buff... Hope that helps.
yea but thats because im a professional. it still needs a buff since a logi can do anything better. tbh though i really dnt hv a problem with using a scout.....ALL I WANT IS MY NOVA KNIFE HIT DETECTION FIXED! like the lunge mechanic that was suppose to be worked on lol |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
929
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 02:05:00 -
[185] - Quote
8213 wrote:OZAROW wrote:8213 wrote:OZAROW wrote:So I read a bit of that mess an what I want to know is, if you think their hardly playable an hard mod but not u.p how does that even measure up? If 2.5% of the entire player base are scouts how many are scouts that are entirely new since uprising? How many new people tried it an said fukthis I'm not staying this class any longer or putting more points in it an how many are scouts because their locked in a sp sink an how many would quit being scouts if given a respec tomorrow, an how many older scouts own other suits an run them more than scouts, or are scout tankers?
See your going off shotty's chart, an that's your first mistake. The registry asks for honesty. For only 50% of your time to be a scout. I played scout since jan only, it's taken from then to now to get over 1 on my kd an over 10 000 kills. Does that mean I suck? No it means I use a scout ONLY, an not a assault rifle or sniper or tank. You think djinn got 50000 sg kills? Give your head a shake
Older scouts that like rifles an been here since closed beta an are extremely good players in any game are our top. I gaurunte if I used a rifle the whole time I'd have double what I have. So because I like sg an nk I have to put up with a broken game? If your a assault scout it's not the same as a nk or sg assassin .
Why Because look at the CPU pg difference in those weapons also compare armor to biotics. The scout should accomodate it's many play styles not AR514 My knives use as much as a proto gun, wtf? Asking for more difference between frame with speed an scanning an CPU pg an a equip slot isn't much to ask when we need survalence equipment . But wasting my time with you is like expecting every human being able to understand logic hmmm missed, buuuut the idea of Scouts have their own gear sound fair to you? Then maybe Heavies can get there own gear to? For example: Kin-Cats that can only be used by Scouts and can't be put on Medium and Light Frames. Kind of like the Armor mods that are made for scouts. Missed? That's all you've been writing, your coming off a little too arrogant , biased an unable to be reasoned with Yes sir, its called giving up. So your trolling then on purpose, by ignoring everything presented to you an wasted our time? See at first I thought you just didn't know, now I see that your doing your best to be a complete RICHARD! Bravo good sir, ******* idiot |
8213
Grade No.2
496
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 02:16:00 -
[186] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:8213 wrote:OZAROW wrote:8213 wrote:OZAROW wrote:So I read a bit of that mess an what I want to know is, if you think their hardly playable an hard mod but not u.p how does that even measure up? If 2.5% of the entire player base are scouts how many are scouts that are entirely new since uprising? How many new people tried it an said fukthis I'm not staying this class any longer or putting more points in it an how many are scouts because their locked in a sp sink an how many would quit being scouts if given a respec tomorrow, an how many older scouts own other suits an run them more than scouts, or are scout tankers?
See your going off shotty's chart, an that's your first mistake. The registry asks for honesty. For only 50% of your time to be a scout. I played scout since jan only, it's taken from then to now to get over 1 on my kd an over 10 000 kills. Does that mean I suck? No it means I use a scout ONLY, an not a assault rifle or sniper or tank. You think djinn got 50000 sg kills? Give your head a shake
Older scouts that like rifles an been here since closed beta an are extremely good players in any game are our top. I gaurunte if I used a rifle the whole time I'd have double what I have. So because I like sg an nk I have to put up with a broken game? If your a assault scout it's not the same as a nk or sg assassin .
Why Because look at the CPU pg difference in those weapons also compare armor to biotics. The scout should accomodate it's many play styles not AR514 My knives use as much as a proto gun, wtf? Asking for more difference between frame with speed an scanning an CPU pg an a equip slot isn't much to ask when we need survalence equipment . But wasting my time with you is like expecting every human being able to understand logic hmmm missed, buuuut the idea of Scouts have their own gear sound fair to you? Then maybe Heavies can get there own gear to? For example: Kin-Cats that can only be used by Scouts and can't be put on Medium and Light Frames. Kind of like the Armor mods that are made for scouts. Missed? That's all you've been writing, your coming off a little too arrogant , biased an unable to be reasoned with Yes sir, its called giving up. So your trolling then on purpose, by ignoring everything presented to you an wasted our time? See at first I thought you just didn't know, now I see that your doing your best to be a complete RICHARD! Bravo good sir, ******* idiot
LMFAO!!!!!!
You really didn't read anything on this thread, did you? You probably won't even read this... because you just did this... I'm an Evil Troll
Go ahead and respond, but I'm done with this thread. You stopped arguing points and started attacking me. There is plenty of information in this thread discussing Scouts. Its an archive at this point. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
592
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Posted - 2013.10.23 04:10:00 -
[187] - Quote
8213 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Johnny Guilt wrote:Shotty GoBang wrote:Johnny Guilt wrote:Scout suits are fine for what they do within the hit/run or stealth playstyles and only those styles and nothing else. Scenario A: Newbro AR-514 spots Proto Scout. Guns him down in an instant, as the Scout made a mistake. Scenario B: Newbro Scout sneaks up behind Proto AR-514. Stabs or Shotguns his mark in the back, but dies instantly when mark turns around. Conclusion: Perfectly planned and executed assassinations often fail. Hit-and-run / stealth playstyle is imbalanced. Perhaps this is why 75% of newbro Scouts quit Dust after graduating the Academy. Question: Why is this OK? You guys are taking this suit too seriously and blaming the suit and not the user, the scout suit isn't the easiest suit to play,in most cases the reason the scout dies is from personal mistakes(or lack of experience) either from the users failure to execute assassinations or lack of situational awareness which put him in those situations where he is killed.Don't expect newberry bros to know is head from his ass fresh out of academy to play scout well,it's not entry level and anyone getting into scout suits should know what their in for,puting your balls on the line with the risk of death higher than any other suit but for great profit/thrill,IF you know how to play it. The argument is not that a good scout player can't do well in a battle. The problem is that when you do make all things equal a player of the same level of skill in a different suit would always do better than a scout. Scout is not good at anything besides being the hard mode. Yeah, I gather its hard... but so what? Every game has that "hard mode" whether it be a Game like GTA5 that you select which difficulty you want to play on, or you play Black Ops 2 and use the KSG, or use the Plasma Cannon or SCR in DUST. You choose to play the hard mode, so why complain when you lose? Scouts aren't broken, their playerbase (which has already proven themselves more than adequate at the game) just wants more. I know WHAT they want in terms of fixes. I know HOW they want the fixes to work and be implemented. But WHY? Greed like that is what destroys playerbases. And with only 5000 DUST-ers, they aren't that far from destroying themselves... if CCP doesn't do it first. There has been argument for every weapon, setup, and whatever else in this game that has been asked to get nerfed or buffed- it never stops! BALANCE IS IMPOSSIBLE and always will be. Something has to be cast out and labeled as hard. It comes down to one side wanting more for themselves to have some sort of advantage over another and not want to play on hard. Players don't like hard. DUST players hate hard. As soon as something gets hard, they cry for re-work. They Protostomp to avoid hard. They exploit every advantage to avoid hard. Nobody likes to chose hard. But for the few that do, remember its a CHOICE. But to sit on here as proclaimed masters of hard and yet ask for more??? That's like Michael Jordan (Kobe Bryant and Lebron James for you kids) asking his shoes be lighter so he jump higher, and the hoop lowers 1m every time he has possession of the ball... He already stands out as the best among the best, but its just never going to be good enough... he wants to keep tweeking a few micro improvements out of the game strictly for himself. Do you know why I didn't go into Scouts? Even though its my most preferred playstyle in this game? I saw right away that it was hard and going to be difficult (even back in beta) but I Skilled into Minmatar Light anyway. I was ready to go Full Scout, but I looked at the specs and played as a light (Same as Scout just no bonuses, but slots and CPU/PG are the same) for a few weeks and realized, "hey, this is too hard". I tried hard and decided I didn't want hard. I give major respect to everyone on Shotty's board, because I don't have the patients to take on such a hard task, and I don't know if I really could ever do that good with it in the first place no matter how much I played. I asked to be filled in on Scouts. I learned. I still didn't change my perception on Scouts. I didn't see a strong conviction that would warrant a change to their setup as of right now. Can we end the thread now? Can we do whatever it was that got my Nyain San thread deleted? (Which it happened while I slept, so I don't know what happened in the thread while I slept that warranted it to be deleted)
I don't think most ppl chose scout b/c it is the hard mode, mostly ppl started playing it because the glass cannon, stealth and speed play style appealed to them. Ppl stuck with scouts through all the builds and respecs because they a) identify with this role concept and b) hope for CCP to actually make the logical changes and implement this role in the game. |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation The Ascendancy
647
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 04:46:00 -
[188] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote: I don't think most ppl chose scout b/c it is the hard mode, mostly ppl started playing it because the glass cannon, stealth and speed play style appealed to them. Ppl stuck with scouts through all the builds and respecs because they a) identify with this role concept and b) hope for CCP to actually make the logical changes and implement this role in the game.
Amen, scout 'til I die....no joke here. just waiting on CCP. scouts get around, but it's unfair, we can't play the game we want to play. just waiting on ccp. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2239
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 05:30:00 -
[189] - Quote
Keep in mind that buffs should always be tested by incremental steps. Because honestly there are a lot of areas into scout that need buffing but I'm sure that "inch buffs" could work very cohesively. For Example: - Speed Changes + Better Stealth + CPU If we were able to slow suprascout frames just a little, in combination with a functional LOS vs. Profile detection system, we could say that the scouts would have a good basal for their general specialty, and then you would have a good stepping stone to launch into CPU if still needed. So don't misconstrue our desires for buffs numerous; the sum of little buffs could go a long ways.
However if the argument of whether the scout is UP persists; How is the current LOS Detection remotely fair to scouts? It's not, it defeats the scout strength that contributes to it's paper armor/shields. How is it right when something with more Armor + Shields by the hundreds in difference after a complete runaway is but 30 meters back still? We can not escape medium frames as easily as you would think, the maps do not support our escapes for the most part. The Maps, I bet they are much more fun for medium frames (except they jump like they were bow legged atrophy sufferers) because they don't have to be so "Oh **** I'm in the open" paranoid.
We can't play full frontal assault but that's all the game really gives. Yes there are moments/areas that can support stealth or speed but a majority of this game is AR514. Can't play too close to the plasma you know, so there's not a whole lot of "Scout Approved" combat to partake in that would work well with what people try and portray a scout "should be". So much open terrain to cross that snipers can easily OHK an unlucky morsel of a scout. It's an inherit risk I guess, having so small of a niche.
Also just straight up TTK (Time To Kill) against a scout is just not even fun. If a scout does not notice someone (let's say they were out 23 meters ) 3 shots to pop the shields and maybe another 5 shots to go through armor on a weapon with RPM in the 750's is less than a second to kill. The game kind of turns into a
Better Luck Next Time! Insert Coin
Of course the Scout was at fault right? He did not see the enemy right? Well cut the guy some slack, his passive scan when he dumps a few million SP into it can bump around 22.5 meters at basal. Whoo! 12.5 extra meters! That can be run in <2 Seconds. Yeah the tools don't match the job way too often. I mean I get that we are the small guys but.....did they have to give us small scanners too? Must we wrap foil around our heads to get better reception? Wouldn't be a bad idea....probably add a few points of armor.
But you know that's my whiny side. My righteous side says that the scout is a blast to run. When you get a scout in the right place at the right time you have a hayday. Blowing up notable players with RE's from the unseen......
In Summary, strengthen our strengths across the board by little, by enough that is, to make everybody say "Hey, that's a viable suit, corresponding to a viable role. That thing can do some things a Logi can't." That is the day when our population will grow to be the 5%! Add a little more oomph to fitting capabilities, whether it's EQ slots (I don't prefer) or modules (don't prefer) or just straight up CPU (I prefer) so that I can fit a Plasma Cannon with my range amplifiers without being forced to give one up for a CPU Enhancer. Our strengths apparently have weakspots is what I'm trying to communicate here. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
850
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 07:33:00 -
[190] - Quote
You deserve to be k/d padding, you come to battle in a onesie lol |
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Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1719
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 14:59:00 -
[191] - Quote
8213 wrote:You stopped arguing points and started attacking me. Possibly guilty on this count, and if so, would offer sincere apology.
In the dozens of "Scouts are Fine" threads predating yours, a non-Scout ran a Dragonfly for a few matches, did moderately well, and concluded that we all must be fussing about nothing. The tourists, presumably trolling, proceed to offered "tips" on how to do it right.
The tourists weren't around for the initial and subsequent Uprising Scout nerfs. The tourists are OK dying in a half-second because they haven't been insta-killed at 100m. The tourists haven't experienced the frustration following repeated, failed flank attacks. The tourists haven't invested the requisite SP to realize that Scouts don't scale like other classes. The tourists haven't witnessed firsthand the extent of imbalance observed by Scouts in PC.
When I stumbled upon your thread, I expected more of the same ...
Angered at having been killed by a Scout, another AR-514 jumps on the "protect my upperhand" bandwagon. Offers up an ill-thought and ill-intended post to do his part in keeping the Scout imbalance permanent.
The "killing is a secondary function for scouts" comment affirmed my suspicions, and I attacked your positions (possibly you) in defense of the efforts we've made to date and all things good and righteous :-).
Turns out I falsely assumed that you -- like those before you -- had no interest in debating the facts. Your coherent arguments have proven me mistaken. I disagree with your opinions and observations, but I admit my error and offer apology for false assumption.
- Shotty GoBang |
ReGnYuM
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
1159
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 15:03:00 -
[192] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:8213 wrote:You stopped arguing points and started attacking me. Possibly guilty on this count, and if so, would offer sincere apology. In the dozens of "Scouts are Fine" threads predating yours, a non-Scout ran a Dragonfly for a few matches, did moderately well, and concluded that we all must be fussing about nothing. The tourists, presumably trolling, proceed to offered "tips" on how to do it right. The tourists weren't around for the initial and subsequent Uprising Scout nerfs. The tourists are OK dying in a half-second because they haven't been insta-killed at 100m. The tourists haven't experienced the frustration following repeated, failed flank attacks. The tourists haven't invested the requisite SP to realize that Scouts don't scale like other classes. The tourists haven't witnessed firsthand the extent of imbalance observed by Scouts in PC. When I stumbled upon your thread, I expected more of the same. Angered at having been killed by a Scout, another AR-514 jumps on the "protect my upperhand" bandwagon. Offers up another post to do his part in hopes of making Scout imbalance remains permanent. The " killing is a secondary function for scouts" comment affirmed my suspicions, and I attacked your positions (possibly you) in defense of the efforts we've made to date and all things good and righteous :-). Turns out I falsely assumed that you -- like those before you -- had no interest in debating the facts. Your coherent arguments have proven me mistaken. I disagree with your opinions and methods, but I admit my error and offer apology.
I see Scouts smash in PC CQC all the time.
Your ability to be effective in PC sounds like a personal problem... hmmm...hmm |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1720
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 15:09:00 -
[193] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote: Your ability to be effective in PC sounds like a personal problem... hmmm...hmm
Its ReGnYuM!
How's that Scout video coming, Champ? Will it be awesome like: AR-514 learns to Shotgun? Teach me how to do it right! Do you have lots of tips for us?
+1 from me to you for the laughs. |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
931
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:35:00 -
[194] - Quote
You have no solidarity to your statements or proof. Any thing I wrote until my last post you ignored because you had nothing, your only response to me was,
MISSED
You gave no reason why an backed nothing up, you've failed to bring any coherent solutions to the problem because in your opinion their is no problem scouts aren't under powered just hard mod. Your only point of this whole post was to stir $hit up because you gave up on the game.
You act completely irrational when people provide you with decent information, causing a stalemate . This would irritate anyone trying to be reasonable with you. So if you feel unfairly treated this is something you brought on yourself due to a unrealistic opinion that you can't even validate because your not a scout.
Just because I used a militia forge heavy to fight a tank give s me no legs to stand on with a option of using a proto heavy an the problems they face.
If you were a highly sp invested scout you would be treated differently and your opinion would have substantial truth behnd your beliefs, but your not a full time scout. And we see your intended sabotage, only the rest of the AR community didn't back you up as expected , did they! |
Dachande Anasazi
DUST University Ivy League
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:38:00 -
[195] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:Mregomies wrote:8213 wrote:This forum has a few themes right now: Nerf the AR, Patch want/needs, and Scout suit modifications.
I see that people who are using Scouts are not happy with what little they have to work with. They want more equipment slots, or more CPU, and more speed, etc...
I thought the purpose of light frames was to be stripped down suits that purposely can perform LESS simultaneous functions on the battlefield. They are like the opposites of Logi or Heavies I thought?
Scouts have speed and stealth, which means they run around the back of the enemy and plant Uplinks to ambush the enemy, sneak to an objective and begin hacking it, scan the holy sh*t out of everything, and maybe get a few kills then run for cover again. Or, they actually scout the enemy and use a mic to tell their team where they are at.
I know some people use them for shotguns, because you need every advantage you can get with those broken guns, and the fact that hitboxes sway terribly in this game makes Scouts very effective when they are dancing all around you. Bullets shoot right through them like they are ghosts; but they die instantly if they are 10 metes away from you... I can't tell you how many times I catch a Scout in the open, in the thick of the battlefield running head on right at me, and all I can think is "really dude, props for trying, but you're dead... NOW" I shoot, they die. sometimes I even have o back up 5 steps. This is an example of a scout playing foolishly to there equipment function.
So, Why are Scout users asking for more, when their frames are specifically made to do less? This doesn't mean they aren't effective, they just have different roles. Sure, Heavies would like to have equipment slots so they can stand on Triages, Logis would like sidearms AND more slots, mediums would like to have Scout speed without sacrificing health and stealth themselves. I personally would like more to my Caldari Medium frames(and yes I use the SCR w/ Caldari because I'm stubborn) but that's all in the name of balance.
I never used an actual Scout frame before; only Basic Light. I do fine with them of what can be expected. I hack more objectives, and I get more support WP. In fact, I'll leave with this example:
The only time I ever played General John Ripper and Levi Thunder our team was destined to get stomped. I was having a terrible day with connections, so I was only using free fits that day. One of them was The Gallente Hunter Fit, a stealth(ish) Light frame. As expected, my team was getting destroyed in a hurry, we went down by 15 clones in the first 2 minutes. So, I put on my light frame, and ran all the way around the map, and climbed up a wall and planted Uplinks right behind them. So ever death from there on, they got ambushed. I then ran all the way around them again and did it to them a 2nd, and 3rd time. I finished 2/4 but had 1200+ in Uplinks because I placed them in detrimental positions for the enemy. I called in my HAV (and actually left it there for my team to drive) and before you know it, we won the match. All thanks to ME! All thanks to using a Light Suit as intended. Word! That is what I'm trying to write here in forum. Scouts should scout not to do frontliners job. Please explain how a Scout, is supposed to Scout, with a 10m Scan Radius, tthe same as every other suit in the game. Go ahead.
Give scout a bigger Range and let them be the only ones to use active scanners...Biff active scannerssince onlyone suit type (the underpowered one) can use it |
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