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BARDAS DUST University Ivy League 680	Posted - 2013.10.20 11:26:00 - [61] - Quote 8213 wrote: Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users. Are we even playing the same game? I would laugh but I'm pretty sure you are serious. Please pray tell us what these mystical roles that only a Scout can perform are?
8213 Grade No.2 475	Posted - 2013.10.20 11:35:00 - [62] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: 8213 wrote: Yes, it's fine. You still get your Scout Bonuses, and you still have speed without having to use Kin-Cats. I was watched you that game, and you were faster than everyone else by far. I'm sorry, but saying a medium can do that is simply a lie. A medium nneds to use a slot for a Kin-Cat, you don't. And you get a much smaller hit box. Chormosone hasn't been around for looooong while, and Uprising has been here for half a year... you say Scouts suck now, but still use them, and perform well in them? Doesn't answer WHY you're using this supposed gimped setup now. You told me why you used them back then, but why are you gimping yourself now? According to you, if you had a Medium Frame you would have done even better playing that same style. You would have been magically faster, had more HP, and more power.... thanks for gimping yourself on purpose, buddy ole pal. If AA was a factor than my HMG should have leveled you as intended... oh wait, if the it works in your favor its you being a beast and the other sucking, but if it doesn't work in your favor then the game needs to be fixed, right? Because you should never die? Do your deaths not count? Sorry, none of your reasons have any merit. You struck out 3x in this thread. Some people actually posted reasonable things that they wanted. They didn't come up with the coded "I want more, I'm selfish, I shouldn't die ever in this game because my ego thinks I'm to good for it" gibberish that you have. Yes a medium has to use a kincat... So what? He uses a kincat 500+ shields with a proto shotty. Bam better than my build. He's faster, more hp too. You keep saying I gimped myself and asking as to why... I'll tell you. It's because I hate using the norm. I hate using the FOTM. And I love doing well with the most underpowered things in games. I believe all people who run scouts are like this. That is why i will not stoop so low as run a medium frame. However if I got a respec... You bet damn well ill spec right into one. I do well with my scout... I will not lie. However that's ME. Very few people can pull a scout off. Even fewer in PC. Which brings me to my next point. IT WAS A PUB MATCH! Pub matches are terrible places for looking at balancing and determining what's OP and what isn't. Just because I did good in ONE pub match doesn't mean the suit is fine. Because its not. Like I've been saying.. Medium frames can do what the scout does, better. I just want at LEAST one thing it can be better at.. pssst.... remember you struck out... But P/C does show CCP what the game's biggest exploits are. Since Scouts don't seem to run amuck in P/C shows they aren't an exploit, they are just fine where they are at. Because if you go back to page one, I never said Scouts were OP, I said they were just fine where they are at. The only thing that I would consider OP about them is the swaying broken hitbox. But that's a glitch and poor software building, you have nothing to do with that. You may exploit it to do well for now, but eventually it'll get fixed(okay, who are we kidding, probably not) Alrighty, I gave you one last at bat and you came close to valid response that has weight, merit, and reinforcing argument... close. But, you still were able to survive an 200 rounds of an HMG and neutralize it. Buy since you're the best DUST player on the planet, I should be happy I went 6/5 against you're full squad. Maybe next time I won't use a Starter Fit than a Heavy, maybe I'll have to use my own Scout Build...
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles 2031	Posted - 2013.10.20 11:40:00 - [63] - Quote 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: Yes, it's fine. You still get your Scout Bonuses, and you still have speed without having to use Kin-Cats. I was watched you that game, and you were faster than everyone else by far. I'm sorry, but saying a medium can do that is simply a lie. A medium nneds to use a slot for a Kin-Cat, you don't. And you get a much smaller hit box. Chormosone hasn't been around for looooong while, and Uprising has been here for half a year... you say Scouts suck now, but still use them, and perform well in them? Doesn't answer WHY you're using this supposed gimped setup now. You told me why you used them back then, but why are you gimping yourself now? According to you, if you had a Medium Frame you would have done even better playing that same style. You would have been magically faster, had more HP, and more power.... thanks for gimping yourself on purpose, buddy ole pal. If AA was a factor than my HMG should have leveled you as intended... oh wait, if the it works in your favor its you being a beast and the other sucking, but if it doesn't work in your favor then the game needs to be fixed, right? Because you should never die? Do your deaths not count? Sorry, none of your reasons have any merit. You struck out 3x in this thread. Some people actually posted reasonable things that they wanted. They didn't come up with the coded "I want more, I'm selfish, I shouldn't die ever in this game because my ego thinks I'm to good for it" gibberish that you have. Using DJINN Marauder as the bar for the majority of Scouts is stupid. He is the equivalent of the Scout 1%. Last time I checked he was the #1 ranked Scout on the killboard. The majority of us don't do nearly as well as he does on the battlefield. He is right also. Medium suits are better suited to "scout" roles at this point in time. Wow, so not only is he considered one of the elite players in the game as it is, he's the most elite On Shotty GoBang's board... so that makes him the best DUST 514 player playing today, right? So, the best DUST 514 player happens to run Scout, for no apparent reason than to give the rest of us noobs a chance at the game. What a swell guy he is. What swell people ALL Scouts are... still, can anyone tell me WHY Scouts are being used if they need so much work? I shot shot a Caldari scout today with a charged SCR shot, he still was able to survive, and dance around me and nail me dead with his Shotgun. Radar from Outer.Heaven I believe it was. What do you suppose is harder? Him jumoing around me spamming a shotgun, or me landing a Charged SCR shot on him? Did the game reward me for my superior skill? Nope, because his fragile Scout suit was able to survive it. Simple as this. If mediums can do the job of a Scout better, than nobody would be using a Scout... I ain't gonna lie. You sound more butt hurt about being shotgunned to death than anything. Also, hardly anyone uses Scouts. From what I read there are only about 250 of us I think that use the suit on a regular basis? There are how many Medium Suit users? Thousands at the very least. Your entire argument is invalid as logical fallacy anyway. Causation does not imply correlation. Meaning that just because you died to a superior player who is more skilled than you and just happened to be playing as a Scout doesn't mean the suit is fine and doesn't need a buff. You're half right. I do get upset when I out play a guy but still end up on the losing end. You can't win them all. But the Scout has its Pros and Cons like everything else in this game. Its just scout users think that their suit shouldn't have any cons. They want more CPU/PG, they want more HP, they want more slots... they totally forget what they are getting into in the first place. Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users. Here's an idea. I want my Assaults buffed. I want more HP, more speed, more CPU/PG. Forget that I already have list of things I can do more superior than Logis, Scouts, Commandos, and Sentinels... I need more. Logis can do my job just as effective as me actually, so I want extra equipment slots too. Its not fair... because... well I don't have a reason, but I say its not fair. Why am I using Assault you say? Because back in Chromosome with stacked Damage Mods you were a beast. And it was by accident I went into Assault (Because some guy on here claimed him being a Scout was an accident that apparently he couldn't change until it was 4 million SP to late...). But now, since Uprising, they suck. My hitbox is to big, I only have one lousy equipment slot, I'm to slow compared to Scouts, and I don't have the HP that Heavies do. I need a slight buff... Your turn, maybe you can do what nobody else can. answer me this. If scouts are in such need of rework then why do people use them now? Why do people use this Frame that apparently has no positives to it? Exactly what can scouts do better than medium frames? Name one please. Is it dampening? Well maybe but guess what.. To hide from a proto scanner... Scouts need to run prof dampers... Which mediums can run...and hey have more slots CPU/pg and more health... Is is speed? Nope minmitar medium is like .2-.3 slower than a scout. With alot more hp and slots. Is it scouting? Nope scouts have the same scan radius as mediums lol. Again you ask why people use scouts if mediums are better... It's because we're prideful. At least me anyways. I'm not gunna stoop as low as to ez mode assault suits... Not unless I get a respec. As to why? It's because I hate using the norm and the FOTM. Using the underpowered stuff has a certain shine to it. Also when did we ask for hp?
8213 Grade No.2 475	Posted - 2013.10.20 11:44:00 - [64] - Quote BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users. Are we even playing the same game? I would laugh but I'm pretty sure you are serious. Please pray tell us what these mystical roles that only a Scout can perform are? 1. Speed without Kin-Cats 2. Smaller hitboxes 3. Racial Scout Bonus 4. Scout Bonus 5. More Stealth(not much, but more) 6. Stamina without Cardiac Regulators 7. Jumps higher So, I suppose the roles it would do better are: 1.Sneaking behind enemy lines (Maybe that's what its called a Scout) to plant equipment or Hack. 2. Closing range between enemies faster, making Shotguns (and other weapons) more effective too, thus providing yourself with a decent assault role, with the added defense of a smaller hitbox. 3. AV, because a Scout can chase down a HAV better, and cross terrian better because of the jumping ability. Good enough for me...
BARDAS DUST University Ivy League 680	Posted - 2013.10.20 11:56:00 - [65] - Quote 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users. Are we even playing the same game? I would laugh but I'm pretty sure you are serious. Please pray tell us what these mystical roles that only a Scout can perform are? 1. Speed without Kin-Cats 2. Smaller hitboxes 3. Racial Scout Bonus 4. Scout Bonus 5. More Stealth(not much, but more) 6. Stamina without Cardiac Regulators 7. Jumps higher So, I suppose the roles it would do better are: 1.Sneaking behind enemy lines (Maybe that's what its called a Scout) to plant equipment or Hack. 2. Closing range between enemies faster, making Shotguns (and other weapons) more effective too, thus providing yourself with a decent assault role, with the added defense of a smaller hitbox. 3. AV, because a Scout can chase down a HAV better, and cross terrian better because of the jumping ability. Good enough for me... 1. 0.33 extra speed is meaningless unless you are sprinting for 100+ meters. A Duvolle will eat you alive in a second and with Aim Assist speed tanking is DEAD. 2. O rly? Equip a scout suit and try and sprint through a small opening. You can't do it because it is as big as a heavies 3. Completely useless for Minmatar at this point in time. Nova Knives are the most broken weapon in the game right now. Passive scanning is just as useless right now for different reasons so there goes Gallente's bonus. 4. Dampening bonus is a bit more useful but to be "invisible" you need to give up on your tank as a Gallente or Speed as a Minmatar. Doesn't work with Proto scanners either. Plus you need to spend millions of more SP vs what someone spent to get a proto scanner. 5. What stealth? See above. 6. LOL wut? Stamina was nerfed back in 1.2 I think it was. 7. Never noticed this when I play my Dragonfly Assault Really, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis 228	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:02:00 - [66] - Quote There are a myriad of reasons why we chose to be scouts, probably a different one for each person. How about let's simplify it. We chose it because it was there -- it was an option. Why do people use any suit? Why did you choose whatever you chose? Before we break into the existential babble your line of questioning is heading towards, let's just leave it at that. There have been many an argument raised day in and day out from Scouts who, from frustration, could've simply chosen to spend their future SP into the medium suit. But we don't because frankly, we don't want it. You obviously, aren't preview to all the woes that plague us, and you don't have a reason to. You're not one of us. You're a 'dabbler' at best. However, many of us have spent their time gathering information, testing, collecting data -- both through metrics and qualitative in game observations. And in doing so able to construct valid arguments (and even counter arguments -- not all of us scouts agree on certain things) as to why the Scout class needs some love. So, if you're not a full fledge Scout nor haven't paid close attention to each thread raised by the Scout community through various posts containing all manner of rants, improvement ideas, raves, etc. Then feel free NOT to comment on our community's thrust into improving our chosen class. As far as 'filling you in' is concerned, you should be thankful for the level headed and honest responses some have put on here. That they even gave you the time of day. That's the kind of community they are. As far as Marauder wiping the floor with you, well, that's because he's better than you. You'll find that a lot of Scouts are. As for me, I'm more inclined to sigh, roll my eyes at you, and tell you to: "STFU, stupid." P.S. Dammit Marauder, this is precisely why we can't have nice things! Geez.
8213 Grade No.2 475	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:03:00 - [67] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Exactly what can scouts do better than medium frames? Name one please. Is it dampening? Well maybe but guess what.. To hide from a proto scanner... Scouts need to run prof dampers... Which mediums can run...and hey have more slots CPU/pg and more health... But you are capable of running around the scanners better Is is speed? Nope minmitar medium is like .2-.3 slower than a scout. With alot more hp and slots. Its actually .35 faster Movement and .49 Sprint but who's using facts here anyway... Is it scouting? Nope scouts have the same scan radius as mediums lol. But you're faster so you can get closer Again you ask why people use scouts if mediums are better... It's because we're prideful. At least me anyways. I'm not gunna stoop as low as to ez mode assault suits... Not unless I get a respec. As to why? It's because I hate using the norm and the FOTM. Using the underpowered stuff has a certain shine to it. I understand this. That is why I use the SCR, that is why I play very aggressively myself, but how often do you run Scout solo? Using anything in a full proto squad doesn't have any shine to it, imo Also when did we ask for hp? So, CCP needs to buff the Scout because you're pride won't let you use anything else? I'm sure you've made a fair share of SP in this game. Where did it all go that you can't build a superior Medium Frame? And I've heard Scout users ask for everything under the Sun on this board. And I can stand back and objectively look at them and see their pros and cons. And I have never seen a reason to buff them
8213 Grade No.2 475	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:06:00 - [68] - Quote Chilled Pill wrote: There are a myriad of reasons why we chose to be scouts, probably a different one for each person. How about let's simplify it. We chose it because it was there -- it was an option. Why do people use any suit? Why did you choose whatever you chose? Before we break into the existential babble your line of questioning is heading towards, let's just leave it at that. There have been many an argument raised day in and day out from Scouts who, from frustration, could've simply chosen to spend their future SP into the medium suit. But we don't because frankly, we don't want it. You obviously, aren't preview to all the woes that plague us, and you don't have a reason to. You're not one of us. You're a 'dabbler' at best. However, many of us have spent their time gathering information, testing, collecting data -- both through metrics and qualitative in game observations. And in doing so able to construct valid arguments (and even counter arguments -- not all of us scouts agree on certain things) as to why the Scout class needs some love. So, if you're not a full fledge Scout nor haven't paid close attention to each thread raised by the Scout community through various posts containing all manner of rants, improvement ideas, raves, etc. Then feel free NOT to comment on our community's thrust into improving our chosen class. As far as 'filling you in' is concerned, you should be thankful for the level headed and honest responses some have put on here. That they even gave you the time of day. That's the kind of community they are. As far as Marauder wiping the floor with you, well, that's because he's better than you. You'll find that a lot of Scouts are. As for me, I'm more inclined to sigh, roll my eyes at you, and tell you to: "STFU, stupid." P.S. Dammit Marauder, this is precisely why we can't have nice things! Geez. Can you give examples of the problems you face as a Scout? Maybe list your build, and sight the drawbacks you see in it?
8213 Grade No.2 475	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:10:00 - [69] - Quote BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users. Are we even playing the same game? I would laugh but I'm pretty sure you are serious. Please pray tell us what these mystical roles that only a Scout can perform are? 1. Speed without Kin-Cats 2. Smaller hitboxes 3. Racial Scout Bonus 4. Scout Bonus 5. More Stealth(not much, but more) 6. Stamina without Cardiac Regulators 7. Jumps higher So, I suppose the roles it would do better are: 1.Sneaking behind enemy lines (Maybe that's what its called a Scout) to plant equipment or Hack. 2. Closing range between enemies faster, making Shotguns (and other weapons) more effective too, thus providing yourself with a decent assault role, with the added defense of a smaller hitbox. 3. AV, because a Scout can chase down a HAV better, and cross terrian better because of the jumping ability. Good enough for me... 1. 0.33 extra speed is meaningless unless you are sprinting for 100+ meters. A Duvolle will eat you alive in a second and with Aim Assist speed tanking is DEAD. 2. O rly? Equip a scout suit and try and sprint through a small opening. You can't do it because it is as big as a heavies 3. Completely useless for Minmatar at this point in time. Nova Knives are the most broken weapon in the game right now. Passive scanning is just as useless right now for different reasons so there goes Gallente's bonus. 4. Dampening bonus is a bit more useful but to be "invisible" you need to give up on your tank as a Gallente or Speed as a Minmatar. Doesn't work with Proto scanners either. Plus you need to spend millions of more SP vs what someone spent to get a proto scanner. 5. What stealth? See above. 6. LOL wut? Stamina was nerfed back in 1.2 I think it was. 7. Never noticed this when I play my Dragonfly Assault Really, you have no idea what you are talking about. EDIT: I'm going to go have a conversation with my dog now. I think it will be more productive. Have a good night lol... So, everything wrong with Scouts and all their advantages and specific things they get don't mean anything to you, because everything else in the game is broken? Sounds to me Scouts are still just fine, but its CCP's fault for making bonuses and equipment not work properly... Now, try and tell me what's wrong with the Scout specifically. I'll give you 7, because I thought of that, but I figured one dropsuit in the game doesn't count, especially since its Light counterpart jumps even higher.
lrian Locust We Who Walk Alone 222	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:14:00 - [70] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: the list goes on, and on, and on, and yet you're telling me that my class is to be subjugated to one play style, because of what, that's how YOU think WE should play? HA ignorant, or arrogant, I can't tell which. I'd say both, especially as he stated that he never even tried a scout suit himself.

Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1234	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:23:00 - [71] - Quote 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: Yes, it's fine. You still get your Scout Bonuses, and you still have speed without having to use Kin-Cats. I was watched you that game, and you were faster than everyone else by far. I'm sorry, but saying a medium can do that is simply a lie. A medium nneds to use a slot for a Kin-Cat, you don't. And you get a much smaller hit box. Chormosone hasn't been around for looooong while, and Uprising has been here for half a year... you say Scouts suck now, but still use them, and perform well in them? Doesn't answer WHY you're using this supposed gimped setup now. You told me why you used them back then, but why are you gimping yourself now? According to you, if you had a Medium Frame you would have done even better playing that same style. You would have been magically faster, had more HP, and more power.... thanks for gimping yourself on purpose, buddy ole pal. If AA was a factor than my HMG should have leveled you as intended... oh wait, if the it works in your favor its you being a beast and the other sucking, but if it doesn't work in your favor then the game needs to be fixed, right? Because you should never die? Do your deaths not count? Sorry, none of your reasons have any merit. You struck out 3x in this thread. Some people actually posted reasonable things that they wanted. They didn't come up with the coded "I want more, I'm selfish, I shouldn't die ever in this game because my ego thinks I'm to good for it" gibberish that you have. Using DJINN Marauder as the bar for the majority of Scouts is stupid. He is the equivalent of the Scout 1%. Last time I checked he was the #1 ranked Scout on the killboard. The majority of us don't do nearly as well as he does on the battlefield. He is right also. Medium suits are better suited to "scout" roles at this point in time. Wow, so not only is he considered one of the elite players in the game as it is, he's the most elite On Shotty GoBang's board... so that makes him the best DUST 514 player playing today, right? So, the best DUST 514 player happens to run Scout, for no apparent reason than to give the rest of us noobs a chance at the game. What a swell guy he is. What swell people ALL Scouts are... still, can anyone tell me WHY Scouts are being used if they need so much work? I shot shot a Caldari scout today with a charged SCR shot, he still was able to survive, and dance around me and nail me dead with his Shotgun. Radar from Outer.Heaven I believe it was. What do you suppose is harder? Him jumoing around me spamming a shotgun, or me landing a Charged SCR shot on him? Did the game reward me for my superior skill? Nope, because his fragile Scout suit was able to survive it. Simple as this. If mediums can do the job of a Scout better, than nobody would be using a Scout... I ain't gonna lie. You sound more butt hurt about being shotgunned to death than anything. Also, hardly anyone uses Scouts. From what I read there are only about 250 of us I think that use the suit on a regular basis? There are how many Medium Suit users? Thousands at the very least. Your entire argument is invalid as logical fallacy anyway. Causation does not imply correlation. Meaning that just because you died to a superior player who is more skilled than you and just happened to be playing as a Scout doesn't mean the suit is fine and doesn't need a buff. You're half right. I do get upset when I out play a guy but still end up on the losing end. You can't win them all. But the Scout has its Pros and Cons like everything else in this game. Its just scout users think that their suit shouldn't have any cons. They want more CPU/PG, they want more HP, they want more slots... they totally forget what they are getting into in the first place. Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users. Here's an idea. I want my Assaults buffed. I want more HP, more speed, more CPU/PG. Forget that I already have list of things I can do more superior than Logis, Scouts, Commandos, and Sentinels... I need more. Logis can do my job just as effective as me actually, so I want extra equipment slots too. Its not fair... because... well I don't have a reason, but I say its not fair. Why am I using Assault you say? Because back in Chromosome with stacked Damage Mods you were a beast. And it was by accident I went into Assault (Because some guy on here claimed him being a Scout was an accident that apparently he couldn't change until it was 4 million SP to late...). But now, since Uprising, they suck. My hitbox is to big, I only have one lousy equipment slot, I'm to slow compared to Scouts, and I don't have the HP that Heavies do. I need a slight buff... Your turn, maybe you can do what nobody else can. answer me this. If scouts are in such need of rework then why do people use them now? Why do people use this Frame that apparently has no positives to it? WE don't want more eHP, nor do we want anymore module slots. We ask for better speed and passive scanning, more CPU/PG to be able to actually fit the equipment that's made for us, and an eq. slot (1) so we could to our job far easier than run to do one, kill ourselves or attempt to find a supply depot, switch to another, then repeat in 5 minutes or less. And the reason we use then is either 1: We refuse to be normal and use a medium suit 2: We want to be faster and can hide easier than the norm 3: We like EWAR and 2 nor 3 we can do right now, 2 because the light and medium frames is too similar base stat wise, and 3 because We don't have around 90% of EWAR in game yet, and even then, we wouldn't be able to fit it because of only 1 slot (why we're asking for two).
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1234	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:26:00 - [72] - Quote 'pauses thread' Finally did it. likes=1234 lol 'resumes thread'
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles 2034	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:35:00 - [73] - Quote Sigh.. I'm gunna stop posting here. Let me just say this though. Most of the dust community agrees scouts need a buff. Even CCP themselves said they were going to give us some love in the future. Who knows when that'll be or in what form. The reason for the above? It's because it's true. Scouts do need love. Alright I'm done. I'm sorry for pub stomping you. I'm sorry for the game being a bit laggy and have hit detection being off in one encounter with you..which caused you to get recked by me. I'm sorry.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1234	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:45:00 - [74] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Sigh.. I'm gunna stop posting here. Let me just say this though. Most of the dust community agrees scouts need a buff. Even CCP themselves said they were going to give us some love in the future. Who knows when that'll be or in what form. The reason for the above? It's because it's true. Scouts do need love. Alright I'm done. I'm sorry for pub stomping you. I'm sorry for the game being a bit laggy and have hit detection being off in one encounter with you..which caused you to get recked by me. I'm sorry. o/
lrian Locust We Who Walk Alone 222	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:04:00 - [75] - Quote 8213 wrote: I just got out of a game against you, where your Scout walked right through my HMG and killed me from 3m away. You had 400 armor, and you were fast as hell(2x faster than your medium counter parts), and had plenty of killing power obviously... Seems a whole heck of a lot more than any Medium Frame can do in this game... Your argument is bullsh*t and void. Now THAT's BS! There's NO WAY for a scout 2 go twice as fast as other medium frames. And in any case the scout would have to sacrifice all low slots and a lot of PG & CPU for complex kincats. If you want to compare, look at base stats. Then you'll see that a scout's only slightly faster, despite sacrificing armor, shields, PG, CPU & slots.
lrian Locust We Who Walk Alone 222	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:05:00 - [76] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: 'pauses thread' Finally did it. likes=1234 lol 'resumes thread' I'd like to like this, but that would be a shame ;)
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1234	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:11:00 - [77] - Quote lrian Locust wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: 'pauses thread' Finally did it. likes=1234 lol 'resumes thread' I'd like to like this, but that would be a shame ;) lol
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1705	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:20:00 - [78] - Quote 8213 wrote: So, CCP needs to buff the Scout because you're pride won't let you use anything else? I'm sure you've made a fair share of SP in this game. Where did it all go that you can't build a superior Medium Frame? I hope you aren't as stupid as you are pretending to be. Basically, CCP needs to buff the scout because given a respec or enough time spent in frustration nobody will be playing a scout. That is the very definition of an under powered and uninteresting role. CCP put a scout into the mix and CCP needs to decide if they want to provide an engaging game for scouts or not. I would suggest that by ignoring heavies, scouts, vehicles and everything else the game will fade -- as such homogeneity is boring. And, as has been mentioned before, a good player in pub matches can own in any kind of gear so lets not assume scouts are great because good players can defeat crappy players using it.
lrian Locust We Who Walk Alone 222	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:23:00 - [79] - Quote 8213 wrote: Its just scout users think that their suit shouldn't have any cons. They want more CPU/PG, they want more HP, they want more slots... they totally forget what they are getting into in the first place. Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users. Scouts don't want to be fast Assaults. They want balance. And the balance has been lost due to a series of nerfs and boosts that put the Scout at a disadvantage. 8213 wrote: Here's an idea. I want my Assaults buffed. I want more HP, more speed, more CPU/PG. Forget that I already have list of things I can do more superior than Logis, Scouts, Commandos, and Sentinels... I need more. Logis can do my job just as effective as me actually, so I want extra equipment slots too. Its not fair... because... well I don't have a reason, but I say its not fair. (...) If scouts are in such need of rework then why do people use them now? Why do people use this Frame that apparently has no positives to it? Other scouts have given you plenty of valid reasons, but you haven't replied to those yet. It seems to me that you choose to ignore valid facts and arguments, because you don't want to get into a discussion you can't win. 8231 wrote: Your turn, maybe you can do what nobody else can. Now that's exactly what Scouts are crying about: they need some advantage that creates balance! Right now, an Assault or Logi can create a better fit than a Scout. Except for the hitbox.
lrian Locust We Who Walk Alone 222	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:27:00 - [80] - Quote 8213 wrote: But, you still were able to survive an 200 rounds of an HMG and neutralize it. Buy since you're the best DUST player on the planet, I should be happy I went 6/5 against you're full squad. Maybe next time I won't use a Starter Fit than a Heavy, maybe I'll have to use my own Scout Build... So you're 1 player, in a starter heavy fit of all things, who lost from a extremely good proto scout. And that makes Scouts OK? There's so much wrong with your reasoning, I'm not even going to explain!

Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1707	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:32:00 - [81] - Quote lrian Locust wrote: ing, I'm not even going to explain! I think we can sum up this thread with "good players can beat crappy players" regardless of the suit. Alternately, we can probably also agree that even the worst players luck into a kill sometimes. Neither situation is able to be the basis of a discussion on suit needs.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1236	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:32:00 - [82] - Quote 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users. Are we even playing the same game? I would laugh but I'm pretty sure you are serious. Please pray tell us what these mystical roles that only a Scout can perform are? 1. Speed without Kin-Cats 2. Smaller hitboxes 3. Racial Scout Bonus 4. Scout Bonus 5. More Stealth(not much, but more) 6. Stamina without Cardiac Regulators 7. Jumps higher So, I suppose the roles it would do better are: 1.Sneaking behind enemy lines (Maybe that's what its called a Scout) to plant equipment or Hack. 2. Closing range between enemies faster, making Shotguns (and other weapons) more effective too, thus providing yourself with a decent assault role, with the added defense of a smaller hitbox. 3. AV, because a Scout can chase down a HAV better, and cross terrian better because of the jumping ability. Good enough for me... 1: Spped without kincats is way too close to mediums, which have way more eHP than them. 2: Not very much smaller, as I can still kill scouts as easy, most of the tiem easier than any medium or heavy frame 3: I don't even........ 4: Read #3 5: There you go: not much. At all. Barely even notable. Which is what the Scout suit is. Barely notable.
lrian Locust We Who Walk Alone 222	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:34:00 - [83] - Quote 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users. Are we even playing the same game? I would laugh but I'm pretty sure you are serious. Please pray tell us what these mystical roles that only a Scout can perform are? 1. Speed without Kin-Cats 2. Smaller hitboxes 3. Racial Scout Bonus 4. Scout Bonus 5. More Stealth(not much, but more) 6. Stamina without Cardiac Regulators 7. Jumps higher So, I suppose the roles it would do better are: 1.Sneaking behind enemy lines (Maybe that's what its called a Scout) to plant equipment or Hack. 2. Closing range between enemies faster, making Shotguns (and other weapons) more effective too, thus providing yourself with a decent assault role, with the added defense of a smaller hitbox. 3. AV, because a Scout can chase down a HAV better, and cross terrian better because of the jumping ability. Good enough for me... 1. Not an issue, because assaults have plenty more PG and CPU for a Kincat - and it'll make them faster, too 2. Agreed 3. Other classes have their respective bonuses. Also, the current bonuses are useless with nerfed scan range and hit detection 4. Same as 3 5. Agreed, but an Assault is easily stealthier than a Minnie scout. And Scouts need to sink SP like nothing else for not to be picked up by advanced scanners. 6. Same as 1. 7. That's true. Overall, some small benefits that can mostly be surpassed by an Assault, who has much more eHP to boot.
lrian Locust We Who Walk Alone 222	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:37:00 - [84] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: lrian Locust wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: 'pauses thread' Finally did it. likes=1234 lol 'resumes thread' I'd like to like this, but that would be a shame ;) lol Liked you anyway, now you've gotten past the magic number! ;)
Protected Void R 0 N 1 N 162	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:39:00 - [85] - Quote 8213 wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: 8213 wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: The reason scouts want a buff is because medium suits do the "scout" job better than scouts.. I mean if that's not enough to warrant a buff I don't know what is lol. If the smg did the AR job better as in more range more dmg more everything.... Wouldn't you want the AR to be buffed? Or smg Nerfed? Really? Because I just got out of a game against you, where your Scout walked right through my HMG and killed me from 3m away. You had 400 armor, and you were fast as hell(2x faster than your medium counter parts), and had plenty of killing power obviously... Seems a whole heck of a lot more than any Medium Frame can do in this game... Your argument is bullsh*t and void. No you're just bad at the game. Sure I went 35-2 but that's because my squad had a scanner so I knew where everyone was at. My scout had 98 shield 404 armor with a 7.5 sprint speed... 500 total hp is NOTHING compared to what an assault or logi can get. Hell my corp mate runs 500 shield alone with a proto shotgun AND is faster than me. He runs proto cal assault. Trust me bro.. If I went assault shotgun instead of scout shotgun.... I would be doing sooo much better. How is you able to survive a full frontal HMG blasting you; me being bad at the game? I lit you up, and could barely even see you through my hitmarkers. But you were able to survive long enough to blast through 1200 HP.... dude sorry, the evidence doesn't lie. You're argument of saying Scouts can just be dublicated by Medium Frames is void. Because if that was the case, then why were you using a Scout in the first place? Why does anyone use a Scout? So far, I've never heard an actual reason/ Apparently Scouts just like to purposely gimp themselves in this game, then complain about not having enough. Yes, of course. One of the top players in the game, certainly one of the top scouts, is able to outmaneuver your aim once - and the scout in general is juuust fine. Also, several attempts have been made already, in this very thread, to explain to you why people are running scouts even if mediums can perform anything bettter. Maybe you'll notice it if I state it in bold: Because scouts used to be good when we invested the SP in the dropsuit. Then it got nerfed, nerfed and nerfed again. Now it's not very good anymore, while our considerable amount of SP is still tied up. We don't really feel like spending a month or more to level into a medium suit, when what we've already invested in instead should be made useful.
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 911	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:47:00 - [86] - Quote =ƒæè=ƒÆñ=ƒÆñ=ƒÆñyou got knockdafukOuttt!
Protected Void R 0 N 1 N 162	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:48:00 - [87] - Quote 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: Yes, it's fine. You still get your Scout Bonuses, and you still have speed without having to use Kin-Cats. I was watched you that game, and you were faster than everyone else by far. I'm sorry, but saying a medium can do that is simply a lie. A medium nneds to use a slot for a Kin-Cat, you don't. And you get a much smaller hit box. Chormosone hasn't been around for looooong while, and Uprising has been here for half a year... you say Scouts suck now, but still use them, and perform well in them? Doesn't answer WHY you're using this supposed gimped setup now. You told me why you used them back then, but why are you gimping yourself now? According to you, if you had a Medium Frame you would have done even better playing that same style. You would have been magically faster, had more HP, and more power.... thanks for gimping yourself on purpose, buddy ole pal. If AA was a factor than my HMG should have leveled you as intended... oh wait, if the it works in your favor its you being a beast and the other sucking, but if it doesn't work in your favor then the game needs to be fixed, right? Because you should never die? Do your deaths not count? Sorry, none of your reasons have any merit. You struck out 3x in this thread. Some people actually posted reasonable things that they wanted. They didn't come up with the coded "I want more, I'm selfish, I shouldn't die ever in this game because my ego thinks I'm to good for it" gibberish that you have. Using DJINN Marauder as the bar for the majority of Scouts is stupid. He is the equivalent of the Scout 1%. Last time I checked he was the #1 ranked Scout on the killboard. The majority of us don't do nearly as well as he does on the battlefield. He is right also. Medium suits are better suited to "scout" roles at this point in time. Wow, so not only is he considered one of the elite players in the game as it is, he's the most elite On Shotty GoBang's board... so that makes him the best DUST 514 player playing today, right? So, the best DUST 514 player happens to run Scout, for no apparent reason than to give the rest of us noobs a chance at the game. What a swell guy he is. What swell people ALL Scouts are... still, can anyone tell me WHY Scouts are being used if they need so much work? I shot shot a Caldari scout today with a charged SCR shot, he still was able to survive, and dance around me and nail me dead with his Shotgun. Radar from Outer.Heaven I believe it was. What do you suppose is harder? Him jumoing around me spamming a shotgun, or me landing a Charged SCR shot on him? Did the game reward me for my superior skill? Nope, because his fragile Scout suit was able to survive it. Simple as this. If mediums can do the job of a Scout better, than nobody would be using a Scout... There is no Caldari scout suit Radar is also one of the absolute top scouts in the game, and is not a good baseline for measuring suit effectiveness
Protected Void R 0 N 1 N 163	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:52:00 - [88] - Quote 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: BARDAS wrote: 8213 wrote: Yes, it's fine. You still get your Scout Bonuses, and you still have speed without having to use Kin-Cats. I was watched you that game, and you were faster than everyone else by far. I'm sorry, but saying a medium can do that is simply a lie. A medium nneds to use a slot for a Kin-Cat, you don't. And you get a much smaller hit box. Chormosone hasn't been around for looooong while, and Uprising has been here for half a year... you say Scouts suck now, but still use them, and perform well in them? Doesn't answer WHY you're using this supposed gimped setup now. You told me why you used them back then, but why are you gimping yourself now? According to you, if you had a Medium Frame you would have done even better playing that same style. You would have been magically faster, had more HP, and more power.... thanks for gimping yourself on purpose, buddy ole pal. If AA was a factor than my HMG should have leveled you as intended... oh wait, if the it works in your favor its you being a beast and the other sucking, but if it doesn't work in your favor then the game needs to be fixed, right? Because you should never die? Do your deaths not count? Sorry, none of your reasons have any merit. You struck out 3x in this thread. Some people actually posted reasonable things that they wanted. They didn't come up with the coded "I want more, I'm selfish, I shouldn't die ever in this game because my ego thinks I'm to good for it" gibberish that you have. Using DJINN Marauder as the bar for the majority of Scouts is stupid. He is the equivalent of the Scout 1%. Last time I checked he was the #1 ranked Scout on the killboard. The majority of us don't do nearly as well as he does on the battlefield. He is right also. Medium suits are better suited to "scout" roles at this point in time. Wow, so not only is he considered one of the elite players in the game as it is, he's the most elite On Shotty GoBang's board... so that makes him the best DUST 514 player playing today, right? So, the best DUST 514 player happens to run Scout, for no apparent reason than to give the rest of us noobs a chance at the game. What a swell guy he is. What swell people ALL Scouts are... still, can anyone tell me WHY Scouts are being used if they need so much work? I shot shot a Caldari scout today with a charged SCR shot, he still was able to survive, and dance around me and nail me dead with his Shotgun. Radar from Outer.Heaven I believe it was. What do you suppose is harder? Him jumoing around me spamming a shotgun, or me landing a Charged SCR shot on him? Did the game reward me for my superior skill? Nope, because his fragile Scout suit was able to survive it. Simple as this. If mediums can do the job of a Scout better, than nobody would be using a Scout... I ain't gonna lie. You sound more butt hurt about being shotgunned to death than anything. Also, hardly anyone uses Scouts. From what I read there are only about 250 of us I think that use the suit on a regular basis? There are how many Medium Suit users? Thousands at the very least. Your entire argument is invalid as logical fallacy anyway. Causation does not imply correlation. Meaning that just because you died to a superior player who is more skilled than you and just happened to be playing as a Scout doesn't mean the suit is fine and doesn't need a buff. You're half right. I do get upset when I out play a guy but still end up on the losing end. You can't win them all. But the Scout has its Pros and Cons like everything else in this game. Its just scout users think that their suit shouldn't have any cons. They want more CPU/PG, they want more HP, they want more slots... they totally forget what they are getting into in the first place. Scouts have their advantages that no other suits can duplicate, but that's not enough for Scout users. Here's an idea. I want my Assaults buffed. I want more HP, more speed, more CPU/PG. Forget that I already have list of things I can do more superior than Logis, Scouts, Commandos, and Sentinels... I need more. Logis can do my job just as effective as me actually, so I want extra equipment slots too. Its not fair... because... well I don't have a reason, but I say its not fair. Why am I using Assault you say? Because back in Chromosome with stacked Damage Mods you were a beast. And it was by accident I went into Assault (Because some guy on here claimed him being a Scout was an accident that apparently he couldn't change until it was 4 million SP to late...). But now, since Uprising, they suck. My hitbox is to big, I only have one lousy equipment slot, I'm to slow compared to Scouts, and I don't have the HP that Heavies do. I need a slight buff... Your turn, maybe you can do what nobody else can. answer me this. If scouts are in such need of rework then why do people use them now? Why do people use this Frame that apparently has no positives to it? Please direct me to the thread(s) where you've seen a majority of participating scouts all state that they want more HP, more speed AND more CPU/PG. It doesn't count if one scout wants more HP and another one wants more speed and a slight CPU/PG increase. I personally want a slight speed increase and a useful base scan range. OR an extra equipment slot and a a CPU/PG buff to go with it. I certainly don't want an HP increase, I'm content with the meagre 300 total EHP I run on my advanced and proto gallente scout - if other aspects are improved.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1236	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:56:00 - [89] - Quote Protected Void wrote: Please direct me to the thread(s) where you've seen a majority of participating scouts all state that they want more HP, more speed AND more CPU/PG. It doesn't count if one scout wants more HP and another one wants more speed and a slight CPU/PG increase. I personally want a slight speed increase and a useful base scan range. OR an extra equipment slot and a a CPU/PG buff to go with it. I certainly don't want an HP increase, I'm content with the meagre 300 total EHP I run on my advanced and proto gallente scout - if other aspects are improved. A n eHP increase is pointless for a Scout; I don't care how much eHP I have, because if I can't do my job, it doesn't even matter.
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 2229	Posted - 2013.10.20 17:29:00 - [90] - Quote A couple things.... 1) Who would skill into a suit to do less? 2) Honestly your example could have been preformed by a medium frame, when everyone's passive scan is only 10 meters there's not some big looming cloud to need to hide from 3) Why are scout's forced to carry weapons if that is so? Honestly if people expect scouts to not kill then why the hell are they forced to fit a weapon, detracting from CPU/PG that could be used "to recon" 4) If you read the description scouts are meant for counter espionage and assassinations. Recon is a word thrown by medium frame users to try and keep scouts sub-par (The Great Dust 514 Scoutspiracy Theory) and prevent the Return of the Scout (see Chromosome) 5) So you're saying a scout should have to carry an active scanner to scout? Kind of not right. ---That's like buying a Sports car to drive fast but then being told that the Sport's Engine is a separate purchase and in order to drive fast in your sports car you must pay to have an engine swap 6) Uplinks. Everyone says scouts should have to carry uplinks, but I mean come on. If I don't spend my SP on the right equipment I shouldn't be able to use a suit to utmost efficacy? --Here's a little story about the Type II scout. In chromosome I used to operate my Type II scouts as the fastest medics or most devious AV. I would fit a needle and Repair tool and revive & rep before the logis could get near, I was the emergency Logi, for when a logi is too cumbersome. I could fit nanohive and remote explosives, I set 6 remote explosives down in one area and Insta-killed Sagaris'. My words: People shouldn't tell people how to play like a set of instructions. I don't tell Medium Frames "Hey! You can't fit an SMG as your primary, you're playing the game wrong!" or "Hey you Heavy! You're supposed to carry only a heavy weapon, you shouldn't be carrying a Scrambler rifle!" The point of the fittings is that you can create what you want and play like you want and it's supposed to work as long as the fitting matches the playstyle. Now if I wasn't concerned about my speed but wanted more HP than a scout then yes, it would be unwise to invest in Scout. But if I invest in a scout with the notion that I am going to be the unseen-assaulteer, then as long as I can fit an AR or mass driver and some scan mods then it should work with the given playstyle. People shouldn't tell me I can't pack nanohives and I should have to avoid all firefights, that's kind of fascist. Now I'm not hating on the OP, apparently a lot of people don't understand scout suits in general. They think one thing but then applying that thought to the game seems to deteriorate, which is why you won't find a whole lote of "Typical Scouts". They're all split into different little sects, no different from medium frames. So when you go to tell a scout how to play scout, think about how you would like it if some one tried to force you to play one way or the highway Damn that turned out longer than hoped.....RAMBLE!!!



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