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Announcement:Vehicle Changes and Beyond - Part 2

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Announcement:Vehicle Changes and Beyond - Part 2

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1131	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:25:00 - [1] - Quote I can appreciate that you need to reduce noise in your data, but how is further limiting tankers supposed to help in that regard? 2H/3L on an armor tank? How is that going to produce any sort of variety in fits? It would seem very likely that there will be yet another stage of one fit to rule them all. I do appreciate the irony though. People complained about not having enough PG to fill their slots, so you took the slots away. Clever.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1133	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:29:00 - [2] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Where are logi and assault dropships? I take it we will be getting an asset refund for this if youre removing our vehicles for beta testing? They went away with the enforcers and marauders.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1133	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:50:00 - [3] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: I hope so. Before they touch AV we have to see how well the new vehicles will be. And I mean we have to see it in action. If they don't nerf the crap out of FG's than these tanks won't last long at all. 7000 hp with no resists is going to be a quick funeral. As long as proto AV is out there, these tanks, from the stats will be even bigger coffins than the current batch.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1133	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:55:00 - [4] - Quote Although, armor tanks being able, maybe to run damage mods is a very interesting change. I am going to miss having my LLAV brethren to hook me up with shields and such, since it looks like those are going out the window.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1134	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:10:00 - [5] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: The Attorney General wrote: As long as proto AV is out there, these tanks, from the stats will be even bigger coffins than the current batch. Thankfully they aren't making us beta test this stuff since we've officially released. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're addressing it, but I'm getting kind of pissed with this whole ***** process. How the ** am I supposed to decide where I want to put my SP when things change so drastically like this? I mean, to the point where many vehicles have now been removed, with the promise that they'll be back soon....hmm...I seem to remember a tank that was taken out to come back "soon".... Actually, I am glad that they are pulling all these vehicles. I made a post months back about the Vayu especially not being fit for its role, or the battlefield in general. Additionally, I need that SP back from both of my enforcers, and my various logi craft to afford the new SP sink turret skills. But the more I look at it, the more I am convinced that armor is going to become a death trap for a while until this stuff gets figured out and we can start getting a tech tree back for vehicles. I just don't like the removal of spider tanking modules. Vehicle teamwork was where I was having most of my fun lately. Back to running a spider tanked Hybrid Vayu, while I still can.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1134	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:13:00 - [6] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: I mean seriously, armor we could get with one plate and one repper is less than 6000. Armor resists look to be staying at about what they are now. Skill based resist and two carapace hardeners works out about the same as the new 60% modules, although the current have better active times and shorter cooldowns. So all in all an armor nerf, which is just what most of us feared. Without an AV nerf, tankers should all just quit.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1134	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:15:00 - [7] - Quote While we are on it, assuming these plans get readied up for 1.7, how long after that until we get the higher tiers of tanks? Reducing us to basic vehicles is tolerable for a month, but not three.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1135	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:21:00 - [8] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: 180 plates were replaced with Complex 120's (roughly the same armor values) Better Armor Hardeners means you can survive longer on the front-line. Resistances are always going to be better than raw HP when the **** hits the fan. Resists are going to be worse. Shorter activation times, longer cooldowns, plus you won't be able to run two and modulate them, you will need each of your low slots for a specific module. So unless you want to go without reps or plates, then you only have one hardener.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1135	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:27:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Powergrid Upgrade Unit and CPU Upgrade Unit. They're there still. The Diagnostic Unit module granted a % increase to shields, shield recharge rate, and PG. Very good module for shield vehicles, not in the list anymore. I like switching the CPU mod to a high slot, because no one wanted to use one anyway.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1135	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:37:00 - [10] - Quote Looking at the shield booster numbers they make no sense. 286 CPU, and a massive 1048 to be able to not even rep back one Ishukone Assault Forge round? And you can do that once every thirty seconds with max skills? Sounds like fun being that tanker. Move up, get hit, start to retreat, and pray that no one comes after you.

The Attorney General ZionTCD 1136	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:46:00 - [11] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: How people spawn in with an Ishukone and don't have an LAV immediately on hand are absolutely beyond my line of reasoning. I already hound vehicles like a demon.... CCP has never considered this I guess. The first month of the build that this drops with is going to be a bloodbath if there are no changes to AV. In most pub matches there is nothing stopping a squad on enemy from just rolling on you. These types of tanks won't have good odds of surviving a match.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1138	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:49:00 - [12] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: I don't see how you tankers aren't absolutely furious over this. We all saw this coming. People thought tankers were just being cynical when we said they were going to nerf us again. Here we are, getting nerfed. Good thing these notes came out before I bought some aurum, now I know better. Thanks for saving me money CCP!
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1140	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:10:00 - [13] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: So instead of whining about it, how about you propose something different? Clearly you haven't been reading for the past four months or so, suggestions have been made, and ignored. My biggest suggestion was to buff shield tanks to be able to compete with armor, and then tone down AV nades and fix the rendering on swarms. Tanks are not that bad. Instead, it looks as though we are getting stripped down to basics, with standard suit levels of survivability. There needs to be a concrete plan in place to get us our full spectrum of models ASAP, because fighting proto AV right now can be unpleasant, in these new models it will be much more difficult.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1145	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:29:00 - [14] - Quote And what is up with no variants on the turrets? Blasters get a big DPS drop to go with the ammo, and no more scattered variant? Unless the charts are incomplete. If the numbers suggested every blaster turret was either an aurum or a scattered, why not give all the turrets scattered values?
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1145	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:30:00 - [15] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: I need an answer to a question before evaluating: Are vehicles becoming more equipment than class? That would explain their unified skills and pathetic survivability. This is not an unreasonable interpretation. Too bad. I had hopes. I expected CCP to make a mess of it, and boy did they not disappoint.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1145	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:35:00 - [16] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: You haven't seen AV Rebalancing yet so how do you honestly know what's going on..? They want feedback. I can only use current AV as a reference right, so unless you want me to sit back and demand the AV changes before commenting, it seems like your criticism is off base. My opinion is that with the current numbers presented that AV will need to be nerfed to not completely decimate these vehicles. Unless these things become priced under 100k, there is no point in running them, as they will be so vulnerable that you will have to spec into a full dropsuit just to survive. Making tanking an end game activity is not something I would find preferable.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1180	Posted - 2013.10.04 04:07:00 - [17] - Quote After another look, I can see why they moved the CPu upgrade to a high slot, because armor tanks are going to need it with those turret numbers.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1180	Posted - 2013.10.04 11:22:00 - [18] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: What about the fact that they are adding more SP sinks into vehicles, so vehicle pilots who spent points on dropsuits because they had nothing else to but would of otherwise spent them on these new vehicle skill had they known? How much SP do you have that you had nothing left to spend it on in the vehicle tree? I have 17 million and if you took the 1 million I used to get my Thales, and the 1.8 million I dumped into Vayus, then I would have just finished my shield skills off and maybe have proto missile turrets. Overall, it looks like total SP investment is going down. If you had maxed out at least your armor skills to 5(which is what any serious tanker did), you should be in good shape to make decent fits out of whatever they give us. I think any respec should just wipe all vehicle skills, and return any SP invested into them to the unallocated pool.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1180	Posted - 2013.10.04 14:28:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: As far as the removed vehicle types go, we are looking to return them. However, we need to battle test the base variants first so we have a solid platform to work from. As far as modules go, we will also looking at returning some (but not necessarily all) of them. Again, we need to cut down and get the basics battle tested before we can throw back in all sorts of good stuff. As good as number crunching and internal playtesting may be, it's not as good as you guys fighting each other with these vehicles live. So that means at least three months, if not more for ADV vehicles? Sounds fun. How are remote reps and shield transporters not basics? Sure they areo nly just starting to come into use, but that is because they were useless for so long. From the looks of it, this is going to be a very long process, and it is going to be messy. Between trying to balance vehicles vs themselves, infantry, and AV, there are a lot of areas for you guys to pull a CCP and really mess things up. Given the current pace of development and balancing passes, it could take 2 years for you guys to get it trending towards balanced, and that assumes you fix things instead of breaking them more with whatever else you try to shoehorn into the game in the mean time. I really hope you have a solid framework that just needs further testing to work out the values. It is not going to be worth the time to play if you expect people in vehicles to spend six months in basics while you crunch numbers. My best advice would be to wait to do this until you have the standard Amarr and Minmatar tank ready to go. There is no sense in trying to rebuild around half of the vehicles. Let's say just set yourself a date around Fanfest, and maybe you can be ready to deploy four basic vehicle lines to go with your new vehicle model.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1192	Posted - 2013.10.07 11:18:00 - [20] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: 5km? Furthest objective I've seen is still less than 700m away. I think it is a valid observation. If CCP intends to eventually make the maps larger, they need to have a vehicle system in place that facilitates being able to cross ground. As it stands, given vehicle speeds this is highly unlikely. Having a 30 second on time means you are either unable to retreat for a minute, during which time AV closes with and kills you, or you don't go out in the first place, relegating tanks to the edges of the map, railing into the battle. Fun times. A lot is riding on if they can make improvements to the rendering, such that rail tanking becomes viable again. That and telling us what the plan is with remote reps, becuase I really don't want to see on of the notable parts of dust go out of play for quarter or more.

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