OH, im sorry. I wasnt crying,i was exagerating. Im, for the first time, accept your adult way of handeling it and i'll try to be at the same level. Sorry if i sound childish but remember english not being my main language might end in some confusion.

Point being, Tanks are way to expensive for the low chances of survival in OPEN AREAS. But i feel they are way too fast too.
So a high HP increase should come to hand with a heavy speed decrease. You cant have Speed,firefower AND resiliance...you need to give one up in order to keep it balanced...

true..

a clash with av would be several people shooting at me with their AV weapons. if its balanced, in the end I would be in considerable damage, probably burning or something and the AV would need to restock on ammo. that's what a clash should be.

I say a single clash because maybe the AVers has some kind of intelligence to bring more AV with them and kill me the seconds time because I didn't die the 1st time.

the tanks limiting factor for us is basically we cannot go into small areas nor can we put up a good fight outside the tank unless we know FPS games and have experience enough to compensate for the lack of firepower we have..

tanks are too expensive period. they are not worth their cost in almost every engagement, the only time we do turn a profit or close to it, we destroy other tanks.

in order to have more HP we do sacrifice speed but he get around that by having after burners on, char is an example of that.

but at the same time, this game is still part of EVE so it makes sense for the same things to effect EVE are effecting Dust.

in EVE the Gallente are the masters of armor technology and they are able to have more armor on and not be gimped by speed penalty, thus they are good for close combat, the caldari are not masters of armor, they work with shields and thus are slow because they cannot give more HP and have racial abilities with speed, which is why they are used for long range combat.

that is the way it is iin Dust also.

@ ADAMANCE

TAnkers forget that it really doesnt matter how much damage AV can do , you have DAMAGE REDUCTION MODS. You have speed and have more than 5k HP....

Swarms might loose their lock on capability.ok, but the damage is needed. Also ,if you remove lock on capability DUMB fire will take place for swarms and BELIVE ME. I wouldnt mind at all.... XD

The forge gun needs a splash damage tuning, not a nerf in damage.

Av andes are VERY situational and have the worst range of every AV weapon. If you get hit by AV nades they are supposed to hurt...they only have 6-9mts range...lol

BTW,Prox mines need a BUff.like srsly...

[b]@ ADAMANCE


BTW,Prox mines need a BUff.like srsly...

Im NOT an eve player. I have stated this before.
You are talking something that i CANT argue.
The only thing i can say is, tankers should not have high HP,high speed, dam resistance mods and high firepower...even if they cost 10million each...

Its just game breaking.Armor plates SHOULD reduce speed enough to make the difference....

(its funny right? im the only one who thinks tanks are way too fast? it seems to be the only real problem i have with tanks....)

Apart from the need to add on being able to eject people so you can recall (or even recall whilst in your vehicle and any passengers just drop outside), for Zeus's sake, THE TANK IS A TRUMP CARD!

We don't tank AND NEITHER DO YOU!

You keep playing the same trump card over and over and over and wonder why it's trump then gets played.

So called 'tankers' (who aren't - were all infantry that can summon vehicles) don't notice the effect a tank has on whether we win the match, even if deployed only for a brief time. Because they have forgotten about it being about winning the match and instead it's about them getting to be 'tankers', cause they are 'tankers'.

The deployment of tanks is a trump card - like OB are a trump card.

Tanks are not your identity or special role.

But you don't care because you don't care about winning and the effect your tank no doubt had toward that - you care about being this mythical 'tanker' role. For it's own sake. Quit roleplaying...

Ok I feel like Im getting somewhere!

However why should 1 man in a steel box take several men with weapons specifically designed for it? Why should 1 man be worth by himself the equivalent of a squad?

the pilots fps skills are not a limiting factor, unless you are in a pilot suit. Neither is the location of engagement as this is something a tanker can easily manipulate, should it be health or ammo, different for armour or sheild tanks?

Cooldowns aren't exactly long, even more so if you have multiple modules of the same type!

AV grenades or as we like to call them LOLnades.. do not have any drawback for the user, they do not take up much PG/CPU and thus you can be very effective in infantry and tanks at the same time.
-YOU.ARE.WRONG. They do have a drawback. THEY ARE TAKING MY ONLY GRENADE SLOT.lol i can tell you havnt been out of your tank for a while.You know how PAINFUL it is to trade my M-1 locus nades for an AV grenade JUST IN CASE,a tank gets near me? (Because i consider myself smart,and im not running in the open TOWARDS A TANK lol)
Of course it has a drawback,and considering how good locus/flux grenades are, its a BIG drawback.

they take almost no effort to use other than needing a nanohive to spam them like little trolls.
You are talking about a specific situation. In a city map. This is not possible to do in open maps like manus peak,where snipers,vehicles and other infantry take clear shots at you. You talk about playing smart, you shouldnt be wandering IN cities. As tanks and snipers own in open maps, infantry owns in city/CQ areas...I mean, 6 to 9 MTS RANGE. if you let enemy infantry to be TAHT close from your tank,you are doing something wrong

AV nades are the worst AV weapon in the game, it negates one of concepts of the game where you need to sacrifice something in order to gain something else..
I already explained this one.

they also do as much damage as a forge and thus are always used as a primary AV weapon and not an situational weapon like your suggesting it is.
It is a situational weapon. 0 to 9mts range. Vs tanks,that have 100+ mts range turrets....

in short, no vehicle pilot respect lolnade users.
Its not meant to be respected.ITs meant to be hated.

should your personal investment into infantry not allow you to survive and get better equipment than those that don't have as much as you?

if that's the case then why do we have personal investment in anything?

Amen brotha!

It's like I've said in other threads; killing a tank shouldn't be the deciding factor with solo proto AVers. They seem to want to be able to kill the tank or it's unacceptable.

Removing the tank from the fight should be the goal of proto AV abilities. When the tank is scared off and has to recoup it is a non-issue.

A tanker shouldn't have to deal with either alive or dead. I want to enjoy a tank in a match. My tank should be able to stay alive if I plan ahead for my mods. Your only worry as infantry is that the tank is in the fight. If my tank is out of the fight repping and cooling down then we both win. I can continue to use the thing I trained in and enjoy the game. You get to not worry about my tank for awhile.

The dev post on tank changes seem to be pointing to a greater contrast of the tank being able to be invulnerable temporarily and then be very vulnerable on cooldown.

A proto AVer should have to work to destroy a tank and be smart, not sit on a roof and wait for the tank to just stroll by.

A dedicated AVer should be able to observe the route a tank takes and go where the tank is going to be passing by in its vulnerable state.

Easy. I see no reason for complaints by infantry players unless those players just want to have an easy kill with little effort. They can't accept a tank still being alive but sitting on the redline repping and out of combat.

That just doesn't do it for them because their goal of a tank kill goes unfulfilled. Nevermind they have done their job of suppressing the tank and keeping it pushed back. On no! That doesn't add to their k/d ratio.

And you have no idea what it's like to throw 3 Proto Packed AV grenades and 2 volleys of Proficency 4, 3x Complex Damage Mod Swarm's at a tank, only to watch it rep through the damage, turn around and smack you down in under a second.

You have no idea what it's like to watch a tanker go 34-0, while simply running away with their repper on whenever they get low, reguardless of how much Proto AV you throw at them.

OP - Get Bent.

I have no respect for anyone who spec's tanks primary. They're just cowards looking for easy kills, who are trying to game the system as much as they can; exploit the obvious advantage in the game, since they don't have any real skill. I hope the tank 'patch' destroys tanking as a viable main spec, and reduces it to nothing more than an off-spec that anyone can go in to with little investment.

it takes up one of your grenade slots... lol that's all you can come up with?

you still have your primary and secondary weapons lol, your not affected by it at all.

You don't tank. ==> I have tanked.

You have no idea what it's like to see a third of your armor melt away from one volley of PRO swarms. You don't know what it's like to see a third of your armor melt away from one packed Lai Dai. Yes i do.Even more than you,because my tank fit sucks a**... You dont know what it is to shoot 5 proto swarms at a tank, and leaving them with 5% HP,but its too late, he run away.Now you need to restock/reload/hope no infantry will see you. And hope for the best.

Because I didn't start by using MLT hulls, modules and turrets. Because I didn't throw my Somas and Sicas against the best tankers in the game who were using the Surya and Sagaris. It didn't take a eureka moment, like when I bought Aurum turrets and hulls, to really figure it out and say "so this is how it's supposed to be."

You don't AV. Stop thinking you know how they're supposed to work.

It takes less than 300,000 SP to get Haywire Wiyrkomis. Fact. ===>Thats not a fact.LOL you need 300000 SP JUST to get the LEVEL 5 on Swarm Operation. You are forgetting ALL the other levels , Proficiency.Of course dropsuit + modules+ equipment...So no.

No, you're wrong. Since I forgot Weaponry, I'll include it. 62,180 for Weaponry 3, 136,800 for light weapon operation 3, and another 136,800 for swarm operation 3. Also, incase you didn't notice, they're 'Haywire' Wiyrkomi swarms, the Aurum variant, which as usual, is unlocked early.


You don't know what it's like to have to deal with blue dots that want to get in your tank for half a battle. They get indignant that you won't give them anything to shoot at. ===>I know . but this is another issue that CCP should grant vehicles users the ability to KICKa player from the vehicle they bought.


We don't have ADV or PRO vehicles.===>Nor you should have them,EVER....

Why, because they'd be too powerful to solo?

Driver and main turret operation cannot be split up, because we do not rely on blue dots. The culmination of however good any of us are is the direct result of observing how blue dots are, which is useless, and knowing who in our squad we can rely on. We use the terrain to our advantage. We use range to our advantage. We use the time it takes to reload to our advantage. We use speed to our advantage.==>Same goes for AV then. If you dont want to use teamwork, TO DEPEND ON YOUR TEAM, then why do you feel teamwork is NEEDED to take tanks down? If you want to solo , then AV'rs should be able to solo too.

I absolutely will not rely on a blue dot I do not know to man my turret, because I'll be damned if I'm going to let a random drive my tank. Splitting operation would be the absolute worst thing CCP could do for tanking, and would destroy it completely. As a result, most tanks would probably biomass their character and either start going full infantry, or just never play this game again.===>Agreed.

You don't tank. You don't have experience tanking. ===>I have tanked, im not saying im great at it.

Since you say you've tried tanking, which is probably a lie, though maybe not considering the MLT hulls are terrible, why are you so against tanks if you found them so difficult to use? Since it's hard for you to use, that means they're bad? I think that means something else is bad.


What happened when everybody complained about contact grenades. They got nerfed into the ground. Next time a tanker complains about AV grenades, make sure you remember what I said about infantry contact grenades.
Double standards ==>ACtually NO. Contact grenades were PAY TO WIN for a long time. 1 HKOd Proto suits. Doesnt matter the AV nade. i cannot 1HKO your tank with it.PLUS the fact that the situation/positioning of the AV in order to effectivley hit a tank ultiple times to kill it is very precise. If you are getting killed by AV nades,you are doing it wrong.

Contact grenades are/were the only thing that homed in on infantry. We have to worry about swarm launchers, which track us for 400m before automatically terminating. When they hit, they hit hard, really hard. Wiyrkomis hit for around 7000 damage against armor before having to reload, if all 3 volleys hit.===>IF ALL 3 VOLLEYS HIT. You are not tanking into consideration damage reduction modules nor the insane regen capability Tanks have I have hit a tank With all 5 volleys of my proto Swarms ( 1 of them hit a building) and guess what? HE LIVED.

Contact grenades got nerfed. AV grenades haven't.==>AV nades shoudlnt get a nrf.

That's right, can't nerf the biggest crutch infantry has.

Terrain damages vehicles. Not so much anymore for infantry. ==> Agreed thats bullcrap.

Next time another non-pilot makes a thread about tanks, whatever it may be, remember this thread.===>Its funny. YOu might have used AVs in the past. BUT YOU ARE NOT AN AV SOLDIER.Yet you do give your opinion on everything AV related dont you? but you think someone who DOESNT tank 100% of the time cant give his opinion on tanks? Talk about bad logic...

I could easily go 50/50 running a forge and tank. I know very well how both sides are. If I don't get a tank, I think to myself, maybe next time. I don't stampede onto the forums and proclaim that tanks are too overpowered for me to solo with a forge. Yeah, I try it; sometimes it works, sometimes not. I don't cry about it on the forums when I fail.


Remember what I said before you complain about AV. We not only have to deal with OTHER infantry,your SPEEDY tanks that can take our Proto AV weaponry and RUN away to heal or kill us,BUT we ALSO have to deal with stupid blue dots as well.

YOU DONT AV. DONT EVER TALK ABOUT AV AGAIN IF YOU DONT WANT NON TANKERS POSTING ABOUT TANKS.

my translation : solo tanks are meant to be **** and tanks with a crew should be awesome

And you have no idea what it's like to throw 3 Proto Packed AV grenades and 2 volleys of Proficency 4, 3x Complex Damage Mod Swarm's at a tank, only to watch it rep through the damage, turn around and smack you down in under a second.

Because I didn't start by using MLT hulls, modules and turrets. Because I didn't throw my Somas and Sicas against the best tankers in the game who were using the Surya and Sagaris. It didn't take a eureka moment, like when I bought Aurum turrets and hulls, to really figure it out and say "so this is how it's supposed to be."
Good for you i guess?


.
No, you're wrong. Since I forgot Weaponry, I'll include it. 62,180 for Weaponry 3, 136,800 for light weapon operation 3, and another 136,800 for swarm operation 3. Also, incase you didn't notice, they're 'Haywire' Wiyrkomi swarms, the Aurum variant, which as usual, is unlocked early.

So you are assuming everybody is gonna pay to win, you know to save themselves half a million SP...Im a TRUE AV infantry player.I was not talking about AUR versions of AV weaponry.




We don't have ADV or PRO vehicles.===>Nor you should have them,EVER....
Why, because they'd be too powerful to solo?
YES.



Since you say you've tried tanking, which is probably a lie, though maybe not considering the MLT hulls are terrible, why are you so against tanks if you found them so difficult to use? Since it's hard for you to use, that means they're bad? I think that means something else is bad.
No im a bad tanker and i admit it.While playing with friends i usually go 25+ kills and no deaths,because i command them to take out AV specialists.They PLAY to mantain the Tank alive and repair it.But i dont use Cover, i dont play smart.I play as a i play as an assault., Move fast hit hard,after everything is dead, run away,regenerate,come back.Of course in open maps this strategy does not work very well. IM NOT AGAINST tanks not vehicles overall.I undestand you get that impression but most of the times is me overreacting to the numerous NERF AV threads (i do get agitated about nerf posts,and after getting EVERY single proto AV weaponry available the fact all of that would be nerfed too is just an unbareble thought.I already have scouts and commandos that suck....). Neither do i think tanks are UP. Im a horrible tanker and i've still managed pretty good games,with a bad tank and bad tanking strategies.TBH,vs Infantry i dont have much of problem at all.My tank is very speedy and can take 3-4 Proto AVs anytime.After the 2nd hit im already 300 mts away....ITs vs other tanks that i suck the most...


Next time another non-pilot makes a thread about tanks, whatever it may be, remember this thread.===>Its funny. YOu might have used AVs in the past. BUT YOU ARE NOT AN AV SOLDIER.Yet you do give your opinion on everything AV related dont you? but you think someone who DOESNT tank 100% of the time cant give his opinion on tanks? Talk about bad logic...

I could easily go 50/50 running a forge and tank. I know very well how both sides are. If I don't get a tank, I think to myself, maybe next time. I don't stampede onto the forums and proclaim that tanks are too overpowered for me to solo with a forge. Yeah, I try it; sometimes it works, sometimes not. I don't cry about it on the forums when I fail.
Well im not crying about anything.I just give TANKERS examples of TIMEs i have not been able to kill a tank with my proto AV.Why? well tankers here say they get 2HKO by swarms and that Forge guns are unavoidable.... If i was really that bad at AV,i wouldnt call myself an AV specialist....

Lets chop your dropsuits into three as well! You control the legs, one person does the equipment, and another does the guns! I mean it's fair right? You paid for that suit so that all these other guys could get free rides doing whatever they feel!

So while you move the suit toward the combat zone guy 2 thinks your too slow so he drops your nano hives and grenades to "lighten the load" while the guy on the gun is swinging back and forth taking pot shots and using ammo without regard for supply. But that doesn't matter cause its now balanced with tanks! Congratulations! Your suit is now officially useless for general use!

So basically you are saying:

- Tank doesn't need to be destroyed, as AV's main goal should be to keep them out of the fight.

- In order to take out a tank, a player must be a very good AVer and be able to take out the tank via superior tactical abilities, smart planning, and working as a team (you didn't specifically mention working as a team, but I assume that is implied).



Here's why the above is unreasonable:

I agree getting the tank out of the fight is a very good thing, but the AV player isn't rewarded any WP for dealing damage. An AV player could successfully push a tank back all match long, but they still get zero WP for all their effort at the end of the match. They may even die several times since they are extremely vulnerable to infantry players. And if they are running proto, that could equate to hundreds of thousands lost. What do they get out of it? Nothing except performing a thankless job and helping our fellow blueberries from getting slaughtered by a tank.

If you want to see this kind of scenario play out the way you would like, then we need to get CCP to introduce some kind of WP for damaging vehicles, that way an AV player actually gets rewarded even if they don't destroy the tank. But as it is now, the best course of action in terms of reward is to try to destroy the tank, and honestly even that reward is insignificant vs playing as an anti-infantry player. Heck, damage WP would actually be better for both the AV player and the tankers, since we could get a ton of damage WP for keeping a tank held back for the entire match. Whereas destroying it right away gives very little WP.

And I've said it many times before but feel the need to say it again, bringing AV into a majority anti-infantry fight, is pretty much a death sentence. Tankers act like every single player can just whip out AV at any point in time, but in reality that is not the case whatsoever, unless that player happens to be standing right next to a supply depot under freindly control and safe from enemy fire. And in regular ambush matches, the only way to switch to AV is to die. If every infantry player could carry simultaneous full AV and full anti-infantry load-outs, then it would be different.


As for a player having to be a expert AV to destroy a tank, come on now, anybody can buy and use a tank. And just because somebody decides to bring one in shouldn't automatically make them near impossible to kill by all but the most dedicated AV players. A tankers survival is dependent on their skill, not by the machine they bring in. That's like saying "if I bring in a proto suit, then that means only the pros should be able to take me out". You tankers think you have it bad, my 220k proto suit can get taken out by a militia AR in less than a second.

1: So instead of getting wp gains for damaging and pushing that said HAV out of the area, you want us nerfed? Because that's how you're responding.

2: You still haven't taken up my offer, and using my HAV and surviving in it against good AV.

agreed. but tanks need to be buffed so they are at least viable investments, not the jokes they are now.

only the noobs want invincibility if you haven't already noticed, the reals ones just want survivability.

And still no one gives me answer

How powerful should a tank operated by 1 man be?

OH, im sorry. I wasnt crying,i was exagerating. Im, for the first time, accept your adult way of handeling it and i'll try to be at the same level. Sorry if i sound childish but remember english not being my main language might end in some confusion.

Point being, Tanks are way to expensive for the low chances of survival in OPEN AREAS. But i feel they are way too fast too.
So a high HP increase should come to hand with a heavy speed decrease. You cant have Speed,firefower AND resiliance...you need to give one up in order to keep it balanced...

Ok I feel like Im getting somewhere!

However why should 1 man in a steel box take several men with weapons specifically designed for it? Why should 1 man be worth by himself the equivalent of a squad?

the pilots fps skills are not a limiting factor, unless you are in a pilot suit. Neither is the location of engagement as this is something a tanker can easily manipulate, should it be health or ammo, different for armour or sheild tanks?

Cooldowns aren't exactly long, even more so if you have multiple modules of the same type!
Tanks could be a little cheaper I will give you that much at least!

Apart from the need to add on being able to eject people so you can recall (or even recall whilst in your vehicle and any passengers just drop outside), for Zeus's sake, THE TANK IS A TRUMP CARD!

We don't tank AND NEITHER DO YOU!

You keep playing the same trump card over and over and over and wonder why it's trump then gets played.

So called 'tankers' (who aren't - were all infantry that can summon vehicles) don't notice the effect a tank has on whether we win the match, even if deployed only for a brief time. Because they have forgotten about it being about winning the match and instead it's about them getting to be 'tankers', cause they are 'tankers'.

The deployment of tanks is a trump card - like OB are a trump card.

Tanks are not your identity or special role.

But you don't care because you don't care about winning and the effect your tank no doubt had toward that - you care about being this mythical 'tanker' role. For it's own sake. Quit roleplaying...

And you have no idea what it's like to throw 3 Proto Packed AV grenades and 2 volleys of Proficency 4, 3x Complex Damage Mod Swarm's at a tank, only to watch it rep through the damage, turn around and smack you down in under a second.

You have no idea what it's like to watch a tanker go 34-0, while simply running away with their repper on whenever they get low, reguardless of how much Proto AV you throw at them.

OP - Get Bent.

I have no respect for anyone who spec's tanks primary. They're just cowards looking for easy kills, who are trying to game the system as much as they can; exploit the obvious advantage in the game, since they don't have any real skill. I hope the tank 'patch' destroys tanking as a viable main spec, and reduces it to nothing more than an off-spec that anyone can go in to with little investment.