DUST Search - To non-pilots making tank threads

Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:

Amen brotha!

It's like I've said in other threads; killing a tank shouldn't be the deciding factor with solo proto AVers. They seem to want to be able to kill the tank or its unacceptable.

Removing the tank from the fight should be the goal of proto AV abilities. When the tank is scared off and has to recoup it is a non-issue.

A tanker shouldn't have to deal with either alive or dead. I want to enjoy a tank in a match. My tank should be able to stay alive if I plan ahead for my mods. Your only worry as infantry is that the tank is in the fight. If my tank is out of the fight repping and cooling down then we both win. I can continue to use the thing I trained in and enjoy the game. You get to not worry about my tank for awhile.

The dev post on tank changes seem to be pointing to a greater contrast of the tank being able to be invulnerable temporarily and then be very vulnerable on cooldown.

A proto AVer should have to work to destroy a tank and be smart, not sit on a roof and wait for the tank to just stroll by.

A dedicated AVer should be able to observe the route a tank takes and go where the tank is going to be passing by in its vulnerable state.

Easy. I see no reason for complaints by infantry players unless those players just want to have an easy kill with little effort. They can't accept a tank still being alive but sitting on the redline repping and out of combat.

That just doesn't do it for them because their goal of a tank kill goes unfulfilled. Nevermind they have done their job of suppressing the tank and keeping it pushed back. On no! That doesn't add to their k/d ratio.

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Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 817	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:09:00 - [1] - Quote You don't tank. You have no idea what it's like to see a third of your armor melt away from one volley of PRO swarms. You don't know what it's like to see a third of your armor melt away from one packed Lai Dai. You don't tank. Stop thinking you know how they're supposed to work. It takes less than 300,000 SP to get Haywire Wiyrkomis. Fact You don't know what it's like to have to deal with blue dots that want to get in your tank for half a battle. They get indignant that you won't give them anything to shoot at. You don't tank. So what do they do? They shoot your tank. They melee it. They shoot it some more. They throw grenades at it. They shoot it some more. They get back in the turret. They shoot the turret. They switch seats if they're the only other one in it. They switch seats rapidly in hopes of getting the driver's seat. They jump out and shoot the tank again. They punch the tank again. They get back in the tank and fire the turrets at nothing. Every installation counts as a direct threat to us. I remember during Chromosome, I forgot which skill it was, that at level 5, caused turrets to not shoot at you when you ran towards them. That obviously did not work when in a vehicle. We don't have ADV or PRO vehicles. Driver and main turret operation cannot be split up, because we do not rely on blue dots. The culmination of however good any of us are is the direct result of observing how blue dots are, which is useless, and knowing who in our squad we can rely on. We use the terrain to our advantage. We use range to our advantage. We use the time it takes to reload to our advantage. We use speed to our advantage. I absolutely will not rely on a blue dot I do not know to man my turret, because I'll be damned if I'm going to let a random drive my tank. Splitting operation would be the absolute worst thing CCP could do for tanking, and would destroy it completely. As a result, most tanks would probably biomass their character and either start going full infantry, or just never play this game again. You don't tank. You don't have experience tanking. MLT hull and modules =/= STD hull and modules. What happened when everybody complained about contact grenades. They got nerfed into the ground. Next time a tanker complains about AV grenades, make sure you remember what I said about infantry contact grenades. Double standards Contact grenades are/were the only thing that homed in on infantry. We have to worry about swarm launchers, which track us for 400m before automatically terminating. When they hit, they hit hard, really hard. Wiyrkomis hit for around 7000 damage against armor before having to reload, if all 3 volleys hit. Contact grenades got nerfed. AV grenades haven't. Terrain damages vehicles. Not so much anymore for infantry. Next time another non-pilot makes a thread about tanks, whatever it may be, remember this thread. You don't have the experience we have. It's actually quite easy to destroy us, if you know how to do it, and considering the complaints on here about tanks, only a sad few actually know how to destroy us. If it takes a tanker to write out how to destroy us, you're doing it wrong now, you did it wrong before, and you'll probably continue to do it wrong until you reach that eureka moment, when you and 2 people beside you destroy a tank in 3 seconds. Until then, you'll vainly try to solo the best tankers in the game. Also, the huge majority of us are in skirmish and domination, not ambush. When you say "tank" and "ambush" in the same sentence, I want you to take a few minutes and think really hard before posting a reply / threat with those words in the same sentence. The guys that habitually tank in ambush are the ones worried about KD/R. The rest of us just want to win and kill a few infantry along the way. You don't tank. I've heard that those who tank in ambush, do poorly when it comes to skirmish / domination / faction warfare / planetary conquest, because they don't have to worry about much in ambush. In the other modes, they have to worry about the world trying to kill them. Remember what I said before you complain about tanks. We not only have to deal with your PRO gear, we have to deal with stupid blue dots as well. Late Edit: This is what happens when you shoot a tank with a rifle. Remember that.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1345	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:11:00 - [2] - Quote I've never driven a tank and I support this message!
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3717	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:30:00 - [3] - Quote I agree with everything posted on here except for the ADV and PRO vehicles. Based on the current skill tree and lack of any confirmation from the devs, we're not getting ADV or PRO tanks. What the vehicle tree currently does is have you skill into the base vehicle, which then branches off into variations of the vehicle (HAV -> Enforcer, DS -> Logi / Assault), and quite honestly, I pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that they never tier the vehicles.
JL3Eleven PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 856	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:34:00 - [4] - Quote So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 341	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:35:00 - [5] - Quote Amen brotha! It's like I've said in other threads; killing a tank shouldn't be the deciding factor with solo proto AVers. They seem to want to be able to kill the tank or its unacceptable. Removing the tank from the fight should be the goal of proto AV abilities. When the tank is scared off and has to recoup it is a non-issue. A tanker shouldn't have to deal with either alive or dead. I want to enjoy a tank in a match. My tank should be able to stay alive if I plan ahead for my mods. Your only worry as infantry is that the tank is in the fight. If my tank is out of the fight repping and cooling down then we both win. I can continue to use the thing I trained in and enjoy the game. You get to not worry about my tank for awhile. The dev post on tank changes seem to be pointing to a greater contrast of the tank being able to be invulnerable temporarily and then be very vulnerable on cooldown. A proto AVer should have to work to destroy a tank and be smart, not sit on a roof and wait for the tank to just stroll by. A dedicated AVer should be able to observe the route a tank takes and go where the tank is going to be passing by in its vulnerable state. Easy. I see no reason for complaints by infantry players unless those players just want to have an easy kill with little effort. They can't accept a tank still being alive but sitting on the redline repping and out of combat. That just doesn't do it for them because their goal of a tank kill goes unfulfilled. Nevermind they have done their job of suppressing the tank and keeping it pushed back. On no! That doesn't add to their k/d ratio.
Judge Rhadamanthus Seraphim Auxiliaries 400	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:36:00 - [6] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space. What do you mean now? they always have. Where you been bro?
Chances Ghost D3M3NT3D M1NDZ The Umbra Combine 1002	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:37:00 - [7] - Quote also tanks arnt really a threat when you concider that they cant see infantry past 50m.... its easy to neutralise a tank simply by taking the long road around it... it cant friggen SEE YOU HOW IS IT MURDERING YOU
JL3Eleven PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 856	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:38:00 - [8] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space. What do you mean now? they always have. Where you been bro? Please read title broski. to non-pilots lol.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3719	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:40:00 - [9] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space. The term "Pilot", on this forum, actually refers to the yet-to-be-released Pilot suit, which will provide bonuses to vehicles.
Judge Rhadamanthus Seraphim Auxiliaries 401	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:40:00 - [10] - Quote the OP was to non-pilots. your post was not. back at you.

Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 342	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:44:00 - [11] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space. Pilot is the word, for simplicities sake, being used for players who use vehicles in this game. The pilot suit represents that too. Everybody is using it. Stop being a pedantic semantic.
JL3Eleven PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 856	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:44:00 - [12] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space. The term "Pilot", on this forum, actually refers to the yet-to-be-released Pilot suit, which will provide bonuses to vehicles. Ohh. I get it. When I refer to an awesome game it will actually refer to the yet-to-be-released Dust514. Gotcha. Also not new to the forums and pilot still refers to anyone who flies atm.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 824	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:45:00 - [13] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space. You're arguing semantics. That's not what this thread is about. Start a thread about proper grammar if you want to argue about that. We consider ourselves pilots because sometime we're getting the pilot suit to improve our vehicles.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 824	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:46:00 - [14] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Amen brotha! It's like I've said in other threads; killing a tank shouldn't be the deciding factor with solo proto AVers. They seem to want to be able to kill the tank or its unacceptable. Removing the tank from the fight should be the goal of proto AV abilities. When the tank is scared off and has to recoup it is a non-issue. A tanker shouldn't have to deal with either alive or dead. I want to enjoy a tank in a match. My tank should be able to stay alive if I plan ahead for my mods. Your only worry as infantry is that the tank is in the fight. If my tank is out of the fight repping and cooling down then we both win. I can continue to use the thing I trained in and enjoy the game. You get to not worry about my tank for awhile. The dev post on tank changes seem to be pointing to a greater contrast of the tank being able to be invulnerable temporarily and then be very vulnerable on cooldown. A proto AVer should have to work to destroy a tank and be smart, not sit on a roof and wait for the tank to just stroll by. A dedicated AVer should be able to observe the route a tank takes and go where the tank is going to be passing by in its vulnerable state. Easy. I see no reason for complaints by infantry players unless those players just want to have an easy kill with little effort. They can't accept a tank still being alive but sitting on the redline repping and out of combat. That just doesn't do it for them because their goal of a tank kill goes unfulfilled. Nevermind they have done their job of suppressing the tank and keeping it pushed back. On no! That doesn't add to their k/d ratio. This + 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 824	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:48:00 - [15] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space. What do you mean now? they always have. Where you been bro? Please read title broski. to non-pilots lol. Did you have coffee today?
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 609	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:49:00 - [16] - Quote So what because some people don't drive tanks we should have no say in their development, despite the fact its a part of the game that affects everyone? While I agree the view of some non tankers is a bit irrational, you cant expect to sit by and allow you to overpower tanks, becausethat iis the view of some tankers. Its about a little give and take!!
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 824	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:49:00 - [17] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: I agree with everything posted on here except for the ADV and PRO vehicles. Based on the current skill tree and lack of any confirmation from the devs, we're not getting ADV or PRO tanks. What the vehicle tree currently does is have you skill into the base vehicle, which then branches off into variations of the vehicle (HAV -> Enforcer, DS -> Logi / Assault), and quite honestly, I pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that they never tier the vehicles. The only logical counter argument is that infantry have MLT / STD, ADV and PRO suits. Why can't we have ADV and PRO hulls?
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 824	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:52:00 - [18] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So what because some people don't drive tanks we should have no say in their development, despite the fact its a part of the game that affects everyone? While I agree the view of some non tankers is a bit irrational, you cant expect to sit by and allow you to overpower tanks, becausethat iis the view of some tankers. Its about a little give and take!! Some? A bit irrational? A grenade that does ~2000 damage to armor isn't enough! A tracking AV weapon that does > 2000 damage per volley isn't enough! It's not enough to merely suppress a tank and make it go away! How is that just a bit irrational?
JL3Eleven PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 856	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:53:00 - [19] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space. You're arguing semantics. That's not what this thread is about. Start a thread about proper grammar if you want to argue about that. We consider ourselves pilots because sometime we're getting the pilot suit to improve our vehicles. Sorry for arguing semantics. I'm sorry. Hope you see there is nothing wrong with calling yourselves tankers though.
JL3Eleven PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 856	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:54:00 - [20] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space. What do you mean now? they always have. Where you been bro? Please read title broski. to non-pilots lol. Did you have coffee today? That's one drug I don't touch.

Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1350	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:58:00 - [21] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Its about a little give and take!! I don't really agree. A tank is a special animal on the battlefield. I think we should expect that a single AV'er would be unlikely to take out a well piloted and outfitted tank. This includes proto forge gunners. AV'ers should coordinate their attacks in order to overcome the tanks defenses instead of expecting to kill it. However, as the supply depots are usually all destroyed this might take a team mentality instead of a KD/R or WP mentality. For example, it may be necessary to die before you can pull out enough AV to take them down. Now, I really don't expect to see this happening -- though it might cause some infantry to crap their pants. Tanks should be able to make infantry crap their pants. Until that happens they aren't really tanks.
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 298	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:11:00 - [22] - Quote the problem with balancing AV vs vehicles as I see it is that they are a closed loop. you can't kill a vehicles without AV or another vehicle, yin & yang perfect balance and harmony. however tankers and AV spec'ed players are in a minority. it is possible and likely that someone could get thrown into a match where there is a tanker but no AV at which point the tank is op or the tank could get thrown into a match with 2+ AV players where the tank is up. how do we prevent this? matchmaking is the obvious answer but I get the feeling that it's more complicated than that... Ko6, armor tank.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1350	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:14:00 - [23] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: it is possible and likely that someone could get thrown into a match where there is a tanker but no AV at which point the tank is op or the tank could get thrown into a match with 2+ AV players where the tank is up. how do we prevent this? Why do we need to prevent it?
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 610	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:15:00 - [24] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So what because some people don't drive tanks we should have no say in their development, despite the fact its a part of the game that affects everyone? While I agree the view of some non tankers is a bit irrational, you cant expect to sit by and allow you to overpower tanks, becausethat iis the view of some tankers. Its about a little give and take!! Some? A bit irrational? A grenade that does ~2000 damage to armor isn't enough! A tracking AV weapon that does > 2000 damage per volley isn't enough! It's not enough to merely suppress a tank and make it go away! How is that just a bit irrational? You are starting to sound irrational yourself. Calm down, there are many reasons people want to kill tanks. 1) WP : No kill no points, there is no reward for "suppresing" a tank 2) "Suppresion" : Getting a tank to run only achieves a momentary respite, we wouldn't mind if "suppresing" a tank kept him suppresed 3) Power: The power per person in a tank is out of kilter, 1 man is pretty much as powerful as a tank with 3, this is wrong 4) Whining: when tankers whine about how weak their tanks are we get annoyed because of the power curve!! If we were to have the current system and released proto hulls it would be the end of infantry, period!!
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 313	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:17:00 - [25] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So what because some people don't drive tanks we should have no say in their development, despite the fact its a part of the game that affects everyone? While I agree the view of some non tankers is a bit irrational, you cant expect to sit by and allow you to overpower tanks, becausethat iis the view of some tankers. Its about a little give and take!! Some? A bit irrational? A grenade that does ~2000 damage to armor isn't enough! A tracking AV weapon that does > 2000 damage per volley isn't enough! It's not enough to merely suppress a tank and make it go away! How is that just a bit irrational? when a rail turret kills all with 1 shot, when a blaster turret kills a player in 1-2 hits. yet you in your tank can and do often survive 4 or 5 hits before blowing. its only when people are tired of your stomping that they turn to av and its never a single av player its always more. and you say we have no right to say what happens with tanks.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1352	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:19:00 - [26] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: its only when people are tired of your stomping that they turn to av I've isolated the problem/error for you.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 825	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:23:00 - [27] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So what because some people don't drive tanks we should have no say in their development, despite the fact its a part of the game that affects everyone? While I agree the view of some non tankers is a bit irrational, you cant expect to sit by and allow you to overpower tanks, becausethat iis the view of some tankers. Its about a little give and take!! Some? A bit irrational? A grenade that does ~2000 damage to armor isn't enough! A tracking AV weapon that does > 2000 damage per volley isn't enough! It's not enough to merely suppress a tank and make it go away! How is that just a bit irrational? when a rail turret kills all with 1 shot, when a blaster turret kills a player in 1-2 hits. yet you in your tank can and do often survive 4 or 5 hits before blowing. its only when people are tired of your stomping that they turn to av and its never a single av player its always more. and you say we have no right to say what happens with tanks. What good is a tank if it doesn't do a lot of damage? You have a hull with no better than an Exile rifle. Is that what you want? They're called tanks for a reason. They take a lot of damage, and they have a really big gun. Shall we talk about the disparity between large railgun turrets and forge guns? You decide
JL3Eleven PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 856	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:24:00 - [28] - Quote It seems the "tankers" want to go back to the supertanker days during closed beta. Sorry tanks have always been vulnerable to a single person with a RPG. LIke always.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 825	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:24:00 - [29] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So what because some people don't drive tanks we should have no say in their development, despite the fact its a part of the game that affects everyone? While I agree the view of some non tankers is a bit irrational, you cant expect to sit by and allow you to overpower tanks, becausethat iis the view of some tankers. Its about a little give and take!! Some? A bit irrational? A grenade that does ~2000 damage to armor isn't enough! A tracking AV weapon that does > 2000 damage per volley isn't enough! It's not enough to merely suppress a tank and make it go away! How is that just a bit irrational? You are starting to sound irrational yourself. Calm down, there are many reasons people want to kill tanks. 1) WP : No kill no points, there is no reward for "suppresing" a tank 2) "Suppresion" : Getting a tank to run only achieves a momentary respite, we wouldn't mind if "suppresing" a tank kept him suppresed 3) Power: The power per person in a tank is out of kilter, 1 man is pretty much as powerful as a tank with 3, this is wrong 4) Whining: when tankers whine about how weak their tanks are we get annoyed because of the power curve!! If we were to have the current system and released proto hulls it would be the end of infantry, period!! Tanks are called tanks for a reason. Massive suppression, massive firepower, and enough HP to take some damage before needing to run away. So it's all about the WP? For merely suppressing a tank, there's no reward? Maybe you should petition CCP to put in Battlefield-like rewards.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 825	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:25:00 - [30] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So what because some people don't drive tanks we should have no say in their development, despite the fact its a part of the game that affects everyone? While I agree the view of some non tankers is a bit irrational, you cant expect to sit by and allow you to overpower tanks, becausethat iis the view of some tankers. Its about a little give and take!! Some? A bit irrational? A grenade that does ~2000 damage to armor isn't enough! A tracking AV weapon that does > 2000 damage per volley isn't enough! It's not enough to merely suppress a tank and make it go away! How is that just a bit irrational? when a rail turret kills all with 1 shot, when a blaster turret kills a player in 1-2 hits. yet you in your tank can and do often survive 4 or 5 hits before blowing. its only when people are tired of your stomping that they turn to av and its never a single av player its always more. and you say we have no right to say what happens with tanks. What good is a tank if it doesn't do a lot of damage? You want a hull with no better than an Exile rifle. Is that what you want? They're called tanks for a reason. They take a lot of damage, and they have a really big gun. Shall we talk about the disparity between large railgun turrets and forge guns? You decide



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