So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space.

So what because some people don't drive tanks we should have no say in their development, despite the fact its a part of the game that affects everyone?

While I agree the view of some non tankers is a bit irrational, you cant expect to sit by and allow you to overpower tanks, becausethat iis the view of some tankers.

Its about a little give and take!!

Sorry for arguing semantics. I'm sorry. Hope you see there is nothing wrong with calling yourselves tankers though.

It seems the "tankers" want to go back to the supertanker days during closed beta. Sorry tanks have always been vulnerable to a single person with a RPG. LIke always.

Tanks are called tanks for a reason. Massive suppression, massive firepower, and enough HP to take some damage before needing to run away.

So it's all about the WP? For merely suppressing a tank, there's no reward? Maybe you should petition CCP to put in Battlefield-like rewards.

To non-AV guys making vehicle threads:

You don't AV.

You have no idea what it's like to see a third of your PRO swarms swerve into hillsides or simply vanish on the way to a target. You don't know what it's like to see a third of your Lai Dai throws "miss" because their guidance systems aren't as reliable as some tankers assume.

You don't AV. Stop thinking you know how it's supposed to work.

It takes less than 300,000 SP to get a Sica which takes more than 3 Haywire Wiyrkomis. Fact

You don't know what it's like to have to deal with blue dots that want to jump in front of every Swarm volley you fire. They get indignant that you won't use an AR like they do.

You don't AV.

So what do they do? They park LAVs in your path. They melee you when you're lining up a shot. They make you think you're taking fire and panic-launch Swarms on the wrong angle. They throw grenades at you. They shoot you some more. They run you over in their LAVs to prove they can teamkill.

Every weapon but a Swarm Launcher counts as a direct threat to us. I remember during every build, seeing AV guys dying to ARs, Shotguns, Sniper Rifles on a regular basis. That obviously did not happen when in a vehicle.

---

You can't, as a pure tanker, tell the full story of how vehicle vs. AV should work, because you're biased. You've only played one side. Yes, the opinions of tankers, Dropship pilots, and legitimate NON-MURDER TAXI LAV drivers are valid and important. But so are the experiences of the grenadiers, Swarm guys and Forge Gunners who hunt those vehicles down.

Way back in E3, when tanks were arguably at their most powerful, and inarguably at their cheapest (with SIcas and Somas being handed out LITERALLY FOR FREE), I started out as an AV player. I ran Swarm Launchers, and I got pretty good with them. Back then, you could use Swarms for anti-infantry - they could be dumbfired and would explode on impact. No homing against anything but vehicles, but they were still a credible threat. I rarely used them in that way, preferring to save my limited ammo supply and switch to my trusty SMG when confronted with a soft target. I was, as an AV player, interested in the discussions of vehicle vs. AV balance, and I said my piece from what I believed was a well-reasoned perspective. I forget who it was, but someone made a thread much like this one, and I thought about it quite a lot. I created an alt, and I got into tanking for myself. I learned to drive (and I still want the optional L2/R2 LAV scheme on tanks, because shoving it all on the sticks is a horrible idea) and I learned to build a tank. I've sat and watched as Shield Tanks went from underpowered to overpowered and back, as Missile Turrets were broken OP, then "fixed" via nerfing everything at once until they stop doing anything, then fixed into moderate usefulness again. I know that vehicles and AV both need work, and I know this from experience on BOTH sides of the argument, not just one.

There are too many people on both sides of this problem who seem to think CCP can fix everything by only addressing one side. They can't. We need more tankers who are willing to listen to the AV guys, and we need more AV guys who realise that vehicles pilots/drivers know what we're doing too.

Can't we all just get along?

we do know what's it's like to see all of our armor and hp disappear from tank blasters and rail guns.

Who are you to tell me i dont tank?
Sure , my MAIN is not tanker, i did a different one for that.

but you run most of the time tanks that doesnt make you an AV specialist, same as me playing 10% of my time as a tanker does not make me a tanker.
OH,and swarm launcher op level 3 is not having PROTO SWARMS lol.

If you changed the swarms into wire guided missiles with either no change to damage or even a slight buff to damage would take a good step to making av more skill based, number of times I have had av turret rockets winged around corners in PS2 is astronomical. Laser guided would be good too. But I have to ask what makes me a scrub about the fact I have very few points in vehicles? I have no interest in driving vehicles myself unless they are in a support role (MAV's and LLAV's caught my eye), Infantry needs a way to counter vehicles and we have that, though it might be a wee bit too strong at the moment.

Spike why do you believe tanks should be so strong for 1 person?
Don't say because it is a tank, a tank is just an armoured vehicle with tracks and a turret, you already have a tank!

I've skilled into at least standard tier of everything, and I still think almost all of the tankers are too selfish-
on the forums, you only fight for what gives you the biggest advantage, rather than what's best for the game as a whole.

Making them cheaper is infinitely better than making them even stronger.

Notice, it took "4 - 7" MLT AVers to take him down to "the 3000 hp threshold" before he retreated.

LOL and he is crying because he didn't do better than 18/0. SMH

char is just a troll lol

im surprised that people still take him seriously on the forums..

plus.... I didn't know there were different parties in the tank community

And you have no idea what it's like to throw 3 Proto Packed AV grenades and 2 volleys of Proficency 4, 3x Complex Damage Mod Swarm's at a tank, only to watch it rep through the damage, turn around and smack you down in under a second.

You have no idea what it's like to watch a tanker go 34-0, while simply running away with their repper on whenever they get low, reguardless of how much Proto AV you throw at them.

OP - Get Bent.

I have no respect for anyone who spec's tanks primary. They're just cowards looking for easy kills, who are trying to game the system as much as they can; exploit the obvious advantage in the game, since they don't have any real skill. I hope the tank 'patch' destroys tanking as a viable main spec, and reduces it to nothing more than an off-spec that anyone can go in to with little investment.

So basically you are saying:

- Tank doesn't need to be destroyed, as AV's main goal should be to keep them out of the fight.

- In order to take out a tank, a player must be a very good AVer and be able to take out the tank via superior tactical abilities, smart planning, and working as a team (you didn't specifically mention working as a team, but I assume that is implied).



Here's why the above is unreasonable:

I agree getting the tank out of the fight is a very good thing, but the AV player isn't rewarded any WP for dealing damage. An AV player could successfully push a tank back all match long, but they still get zero WP for all their effort at the end of the match. They may even die several times since they are extremely vulnerable to infantry players. And if they are running proto, that could equate to hundreds of thousands lost. What do they get out of it? Nothing except performing a thankless job and helping our fellow blueberries from getting slaughtered by a tank.

If you want to see this kind of scenario play out the way you would like, then we need to get CCP to introduce some kind of WP for damaging vehicles, that way an AV player actually gets rewarded even if they don't destroy the tank. But as it is now, the best course of action in terms of reward is to try to destroy the tank, and honestly even that reward is insignificant vs playing as an anti-infantry player. Heck, damage WP would actually be better for both the AV player and the tankers, since we could get a ton of damage WP for keeping a tank held back for the entire match. Whereas destroying it right away gives very little WP.

And I've said it many times before but feel the need to say it again, bringing AV into a majority anti-infantry fight, is pretty much a death sentence. Tankers act like every single player can just whip out AV at any point in time, but in reality that is not the case whatsoever, unless that player happens to be standing right next to a supply depot under freindly control and safe from enemy fire. And in regular ambush matches, the only way to switch to AV is to die. If every infantry player could carry simultaneous full AV and full anti-infantry load-outs, then it would be different.


As for a player having to be a expert AV to destroy a tank, come on now, anybody can buy and use a tank. And just because somebody decides to bring one in shouldn't automatically make them near impossible to kill by all but the most dedicated AV players. A tankers survival is dependent on their skill, not by the machine they bring in. That's like saying "if I bring in a proto suit, then that means only the pros should be able to take me out". You tankers think you have it bad, my 220k proto suit can get taken out by a militia AR in less than a second.

agreed. but tanks need to be buffed so they are at least viable investments, not the jokes they are now.

only the noobs want invincibility if you haven't already noticed, the reals ones just want survivability.

And still no one gives me answer

How powerful should a tank operated by 1 man be?

OH, im sorry. I wasnt crying,i was exagerating. Im, for the first time, accept your adult way of handeling it and i'll try to be at the same level. Sorry if i sound childish but remember english not being my main language might end in some confusion.

Point being, Tanks are way to expensive for the low chances of survival in OPEN AREAS. But i feel they are way too fast too.
So a high HP increase should come to hand with a heavy speed decrease. You cant have Speed,firefower AND resiliance...you need to give one up in order to keep it balanced...

Ok I feel like Im getting somewhere!

However why should 1 man in a steel box take several men with weapons specifically designed for it? Why should 1 man be worth by himself the equivalent of a squad?

the pilots fps skills are not a limiting factor, unless you are in a pilot suit. Neither is the location of engagement as this is something a tanker can easily manipulate, should it be health or ammo, different for armour or sheild tanks?

Cooldowns aren't exactly long, even more so if you have multiple modules of the same type!
Tanks could be a little cheaper I will give you that much at least!

Apart from the need to add on being able to eject people so you can recall (or even recall whilst in your vehicle and any passengers just drop outside), for Zeus's sake, THE TANK IS A TRUMP CARD!

We don't tank AND NEITHER DO YOU!

You keep playing the same trump card over and over and over and wonder why it's trump then gets played.

So called 'tankers' (who aren't - were all infantry that can summon vehicles) don't notice the effect a tank has on whether we win the match, even if deployed only for a brief time. Because they have forgotten about it being about winning the match and instead it's about them getting to be 'tankers', cause they are 'tankers'.

The deployment of tanks is a trump card - like OB are a trump card.

Tanks are not your identity or special role.

But you don't care because you don't care about winning and the effect your tank no doubt had toward that - you care about being this mythical 'tanker' role. For it's own sake. Quit roleplaying...

Im NOT an eve player. I have stated this before.
You are talking something that i CANT argue.
The only thing i can say is, tankers should not have high HP,high speed, dam resistance mods and high firepower...even if they cost 10million each...

Its just game breaking.Armor plates SHOULD reduce speed enough to make the difference....

(its funny right? im the only one who thinks tanks are way too fast? it seems to be the only real problem i have with tanks....)

Im NOT an eve player. I have stated this before.
You are talking something that i CANT argue.
The only thing i can say is, tankers should not have high HP,high speed, dam resistance mods and high firepower...even if they cost 10million each...

Its just game breaking.Armor plates SHOULD reduce speed enough to make the difference....

(its funny right? im the only one who thinks tanks are way too fast? it seems to be the only real problem i have with tanks....)

I agree with you there... not a ridiculous buff mind you, but, nonetheless they need a buff.

I dont understood -+ of th stuff you said there. I only understood this:
''I want More HP,.while being fast and 1-2 HKO infantry , LOL mad skillz...Ah and i forgot i want to be able to run over prox mines and take AV nades in the face,be able to go wherever i want,and infantry should not have a single place to hide from my tank. AND still be able to boost my nitro,run aways with all active mods on , get in the redline,call back my tanks and bring down another one... True balace FTW''

LOL @ U.

1-THE BLASTER.You have Railguns and Missiles too. EVEN THE BLASTER you have more RAnge than the AV nades you so much whine about here in the forums. You also have ACTIVE SCANNERS, so there is not such thing as invisible infantry.
Belive me ,you have an answer for everything.

2-I dont mind you being inside, but then dont complain if i drop a nanohive and start spamming AV packed nades. At LEAST use your nitro an GT*O before saying they are OP....LOL
I've seen tankers that barely get into cities,but stay where they can shoot in, liek using eleveations or barely peeking through an entrance,where they can leave as soon as they get hit once.And man,those are hard to kill...

3-The regulars are pointless. 1000DM? SRSLY.Counting rep modules and damage resistance ;1000 damage is pitiful. 40 mts is an exageration AND YOU KNOW IT, unless you are like on a roof or something. And at 20-40mts, a tank will drop you if you are seen...

No it wasn't. I never said anything of the sort. I was laughing at you because you said it's not fair we have a nitrous module. How did you come to the brilliant conclusion that I was inadvertently whining for everything else you mentioned?

you implied... you think you have the right to be wherever you feel like with your tank. Which of course is not the case.
Nitro takes away the ''Punishment'' of armor tanking, whats the point in puting a penalty when it can be lifted?

Im implying that Infantry need infantry vs infantry oasis in the map.

You implied you should be able to get in a city with high HP and when you start to get bombarded with aV nades, be able to run away.
I implied a trade of 50% speed for +50% armor.
You SAY you want to nerf AV to the grounds...Thats the problem, you cant have everything bro...

Again, people who think Grenades slots are useless shouldnt even be discussing balancing issues.I just hope CCP takes the pro road and study the situation,not our posts...

You F*CKING KIDDING? TRY F*CKING flyinga dropship and just see what happens when the same weapon hits your ship once. You die. immediately... stfu

LOL no broski.

I've seen good tankers , like in manus peak near A Null cannon move around in circles between A and C,assoon as thy feel endangered they just retreat to the red line to repair/recall thei vehicle.THIS has NO COUNTER, there by, its your safe oasis.

BTW , so many tankers here i have a question on my sucky tanking:
Is putting a light shield regenerator too scrubby on an armored based tank?

Its a good lesson...DS are truly UP and i dont see as many posts about them as tankers.....

OP- At the moment there is nothing OP IN MY OPINION.
Powerful -FG's,Swarms,ARs , Grenades
Good-Scrambler rifles,TAnks,LaVs,etc...
LAcking-HMG , FLaylocks,Plasma cannons,scouts,heavies...
UP.Commandos and Derpships.

Know the difference.

So when tanks get buffed you are saying you are ok with removing this feature? you know, for balance sake?...

I know your answer,i just want to hear it from your lips.....

I have been fighting like crazy for the DS, with many suggestions, and feedback threads. some of my ideas included medium turrets for ADS, and one medium power grid slot for an anti forge/swarm launcher ability at a sacrifice. check it if you support the DS cause :D

You write all your posts with bold stuck on. :/
You don't really have the right to accuse others of being an attention grabber.
Even your name is written in caps lock, and not to mention excessively boastful?

How much time do you spend as infantry? Do you know the value of anti infantry grenades for crowd control or just plain killing?

How many of your fittings, barring any dirty AV grenade ones, forgo anti infantry grenades?

17 pages over something that could have been settled in one page. geez..

LOWER THE DAMN PRICE ON TANKS. You will see more tanks on the field and IT WILL KILL ANY ARGUMENT BY HAV DRIVERS AS TO WHY THEY SHOULDN'T DIE. NO MORE TANK QQ THREADS.


Tanks aren't a damn suit. but even if they were A PRICE REDUCTION WILL SHUT THEM UP.

TANKS WILL NEVER BE PRIMARY IN ANY FPS GAME. What's that? Dust is not a.... cause All I see is LOBBY FPS.

You want to see fields full of havs and lavs and dropships?

*oh my..*

yeah.. then lower the damn price. Tankers can't deal with dieing more than 2 times? If the price got lowered you still complaining?

Read underline statement. Otherwise world of tanks is that way ------------------>

*here comes COD references.. *

BF you Dota loving blokes. BF! Cod has no vehicles. And COD players are already playing cod.

This hasn't been mentioned yet, but I think it would be interesting to see the total ISK value of all suits/vehicles destroyed by tanks compared to the ISK value of all destroyed tanks. Tankers claim tanks are too expensive, but when they go 18-0 they are dealing out a ton of ISK loss to the other team. It may take the tanker 10 games to make back the price of their tank, but if they can shell out that kind of ISK loss to the enemy then tanks should be expensive themselves. I think this is a reasonable metric for CCP to balance tank prices on.

This hasn't been mentioned yet, but I think it would be interesting to see the total ISK value of all suits/vehicles destroyed by tanks compared to the ISK value of all destroyed tanks. Tankers claim tanks are too expensive, but when they go 18-0 they are dealing out a ton of ISK loss to the other team. It may take the tanker 10 games to make back the price of their tank, but if they can shell out that kind of ISK loss to the enemy then tanks should be expensive themselves. I think this is a reasonable metric for CCP to balance tank prices on.

so dieing 5-10 times in a single game is god mode. i would hate to think what normal mode is

also infantry use far more teamwork than tankers do, how do you think we capture null cannons from the enemy, you know the pointy buildings that shoot missiles into the air at the mcc that only infantry can capture and actually win the fight. while you are off in your tank just mowing down anything that moves.

too easy for a tank to solo if you know what your doing

yes it will make me happier. then we will really have something to have your tanks nerfed for

We've said time and time again, we still manage to survive, flourish and even get infantry angry because even after so many consecutive tank nerfs, and so many parallel AV buffs, you all still find it incredibly difficult to kill us.

So I don't know what you're trying to say by removing the word intelligence, but if anybody is lacking it, it's infantry.

so from this post alone by my understanding your saying tanks and av are fine as they are because tanks survive,flourish and are incredibly difficult to kill.

i give up. i have no idea what your entire thread is about anymore. its all nonsense. you change your point on almost every post

you tankers in this thread are way beyond hope. there is no reasoning with the unreasonable

i really hope ccp give you what you want. and then nerf the **** out off you when your op

i await your tears

think about this in eve standards if it took three guys in starter fit to destroy a titan why would we build them?

What if out of the 16 players on the opposing team, none happen to be skilled into HAVs? By your logic they should just line up, drop their pants and take it from the one HAV pilot on the other team for the whole round?

Nothing makes people quit a competitive game like DUST quite like the feeling of being powerless. Proto squad stomping creates that feeling. HAV stomping creates that feeling even more. It's not a good time. I remember playing one round back in Chromosome where there were two tanks spider repping each other and my team was just impotent against them. When a bunch of us went AV and still couldn't take the two tanks down, the other team's infantry stomped us hard. It was a horrible round that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

i actually had 3 people in a match shooting my tank with an AR, staying still too, my blaster ripped em apart.
they cried my tank is op.

most my matches ppl are shooting my tank with an AR