Some? A bit irrational?

A grenade that does ~2000 damage to armor isn't enough! A tracking AV weapon that does > 2000 damage per volley isn't enough! It's not enough to merely suppress a tank and make it go away! How is that just a bit irrational?

Tanks are called tanks for a reason. Massive suppression, massive firepower, and enough HP to take some damage before needing to run away.

So it's all about the WP? For merely suppressing a tank, there's no reward? Maybe you should petition CCP to put in Battlefield-like rewards.

You think it should destroy a tank with one hit. At least, that's what you sound like.

Lol

I want challenges. I like challenges. What you seem to want is for tanks to be made so weak that one volley of ADV swarms could destroy it, just like that. I'm fighting to prevent more nerfs to tanks. You're fighting in favor of more nerfs. Tankers have adapted through over a year of nerfs, while AV have continued to complain through over a year of various buffs.

Your right, I've killed plenty of maddys with a AR.

He's in the Tea party group of pilots, along with Char.

powerful enough to do considerable damage & be able to survive a single clash with AV. but if the driver is stupid, you can kill him.

that an acceptable answer for you?
or do you prefer an answer that sides with your argument and not with balance.

Capable enough to stand against an auto locking weapon. Take swarm locks away, or make swarm DPS lower, possibly give Forges a damage reduction at longer ranges like devs stated they would do (edits to the assault and regular forge must be made so the large rail gun is an all around better AV weapon), and make grenades so they cannot be restocked except at supply depots and we have, IMO some good balance, tanks need no buff, AV needs a rebalancing against them.

As both a tanker, to a more specced AVer its too easy to kill a tanker.

true..

a clash with av would be several people shooting at me with their AV weapons. if its balanced, in the end I would be in considerable damage, probably burning or something and the AV would need to restock on ammo. that's what a clash should be.

I say a single clash because maybe the AVers has some kind of intelligence to bring more AV with them and kill me the seconds time because I didn't die the 1st time.

the tanks limiting factor for us is basically we cannot go into small areas nor can we put up a good fight outside the tank unless we know FPS games and have experience enough to compensate for the lack of firepower we have..

should your personal investment into infantry not allow you to survive and get better equipment than those that don't have as much as you?

if that's the case then why do we have personal investment in anything?

the recall system is TANKERS counter to you AV.

Multiple people have already answered you, I'm sure. So, you're either looking for an answer that you can turn against them so you have some sort of reason to change vehicles or, you're just trolling by now.

Too many people comparing apples to oranges, as usual, on "both" sides.

I find it amusing when you put words in my mouth when it suits your argument but when its for balance you completely ignore it.

also, either way vehicles need the recall system, the only change that is needed is an RDV coming down to pick it up.

ok then let me put in infantry standards since you clearly don't have the brain capacity to understand it any other way..

basically what your saying is that even though people are specced into prototype dropsuits and gear, their fittings should be no better than militia fittings because basically in your own words:



notice in that question, you didn't say anything about the question being specific to tanks or anything, so your basically asking why should proto infantry have more power over militia? just because they spent more isk and SP? according to you, that's not balanced.

like I said, according to you, everything including infantry equipment should be on the same level of militia gear, even though it costs more isk and SP to use.

but look at that prototype is far superior to militia gear in every way & it costs more isk and SP to use it.

your point is invalid under this fact.

Interestingly enough a proto logi/assault tricked out to the brim is utter godlike against a basic medium suit, and equal skill vs equal skill will result in an almost guaranteed win for the protobunny.

Also reading into this thread more I find it amusing how many people bring up balance around "In RL a single rpg/missile/whatever can kill a tank!" and ignore that you can also kill a person with a single bullet too... Should we nerf suits into the ground for this? Of course not...

Maybe we could solve a lot by giving AV players WP for damaging a vehicle (With maybe a cool-down for abuse-prevention, like we have for nano-injectors or reppers.). We also need more "urban" maps (a lot of the new outposts are a good step towards this) where infantry can play separately from vehicles.

Sometimes you lose. If you can't get two or three people to coordinate against an enemy tank (whether proto or not)... then too bad. You want to be able to win every time with your assault rifle -- without having to change your fit.

You can't.

Hey, here's a thought, if a vehicle is wiping out your team repeatedly, consider grenades and AV fits.

Seriously, I see tankers being told to squad up and accept blueberries into their ride -- but I don't see infantry accepting being told to work together. At least infantry working together doesn't involve some idiot being attached to you for the duration screwing up your expensive gear.

Sure flux and locus nades are very useful, they're good even at the std level, however they don't do more damage than a swarm of rockets nor do they home in on the target. And there's the wholes rock paper scissor argument as well, because let's face it, rock shouldn't be holding a pair of scissors.

I don't have a problem with grenades. There could be balance issues with them.



No, the point of this thread is that people who know nothing about tanks keep making threads as to how tanks should be nerfed because a lone infantry person with a rifle can't take it out.



What the heck are you talking about. Random blueberries are not good team members. I also don't like the idea of forcing people to squad up -- as you don't know who's going to be on when you want to play. Also, I don't know how you can suggest infantry are shunned for not working together. Perhaps once they are within a corp -- but I'd imagine people in a decent corp know how to change their suits once in a while.

Anyhow, on the topic of assumptions, I think it's hard to blame me for applying double standards -- I'm infantry. Sometimes I have to switch to AV though I don't often see many people doing so... rarely more than one person at a time as everyone just waits for someone else to do it.

17 pages over something that could have been settled in one page. geez..

LOWER THE DAMN PRICE ON TANKS. You will see more tanks on the field and IT WILL KILL ANY ARGUMENT BY HAV DRIVERS AS TO WHY THEY SHOULDN'T DIE. NO MORE TANK QQ THREADS.


Tanks aren't a damn suit. but even if they were A PRICE REDUCTION WILL SHUT THEM UP.

TANKS WILL NEVER BE PRIMARY IN ANY FPS GAME. What's that? Dust is not a.... cause All I see is LOBBY FPS.

You want to see fields full of havs and lavs and dropships?

*oh my..*

yeah.. then lower the damn price. Tankers can't deal with dieing more than 2 times? If the price got lowered you still complaining?

Read underline statement. Otherwise world of tanks is that way ------------------>

*here comes COD references.. *

BF you Dota loving blokes. BF! Cod has no vehicles. And COD players are already playing cod.

You might want to dial back the intensity a bit.

The issue is that whiners in pub matches cry fits when they are destroyed by a tank. They won't coordinate and they don't pull in AV fits and then they complain in the forums -- historically ending up in tank nerfs after the tears are dried up.

To use your tactic I'll have to ask where I suggested that teamwork is not desirable. Forcing people to work with random blueberries is not going to make the game fun -- and that is what some folks in this thread are suggesting (unless they are suggesting you shouldn't play a tank unless you have a pre-formed squad).

And, quickly, I don't see any shunning taking place anywhere. The fact you don't want a nerf doesn't mean that threads created yesterday by non-tankers were not about nerfs. They were. And, good for you for having an opinion, I'm of the opinion that tanks should be harder to kill than they are now. A vehicle (such as a tank) is not simply a suit.

Who are you replying to?

use teamwork? spawn at your base in your av fit and have a team or squadmate drop you off with a dropship or lav. do your thing, and then have them drive you back to base and switch suits again. repeat as needed

i change rock to paper all the time. if i see an armor tank, ill use explosive weapons. if its a shield tank ill use a blaster. then ill swap tanks after im done. only difference is i can swap where ever i want lol

Why are you complaining? You're not taking ~2000 worth of damage from a single grenade, or ~2500 worth of damage from a single volley / round, or 3000 from a Wiyrkomi breach (though some use it as anti infantry). You really just don't have anything to complain about. CCP is trying to attract and retain new players. I think it's entirely in their right to give new players as many things as possible to try to retain them. If you don't think that should be the case, then you could find something else to play. After all, the survivability of this game isn't on your head.

I'm using your argument to prove yourself wrong.



This came from you. I understand balance. I also understand that I'm biased and so, I shouldn't be making said balancing decisions. However, neither should you, who is clearly more biased than me.

lolnope.

sorry. Breach FG can hit for 4k of my 7k. 10% passive resists before active mods (which I often don't have running; out of combat downtimes, dontchaknow) equals a potential hit for ~50% of my EHP on a huge target. Also, there is no way that a Core Locus with 600 base gets boosted to nearly 1k damage. Particularly considering you've got shields in the way. (unless there's a bug to do with headshots?) In any event, a well-placed Core Locus is harder to place than a Wyka Breach shot on a tank.

And I love it when a swarm launcher lol1shots my Madrugar through my resists from some BS critical hit he didn't even aim for.

Well, I'll accept that.

However, I'm going to call that the exception, not the rule. In the same way that I rarely eat 50% damage from one shot from a forge, or get lol1shot from a swarm.

I do, however, have to deal with a single shot from a free weapon dealing 1/5th of my HP on my top-tier, maxed-relevant-skills, 1.4M fitting, which is not something that a heavy ever has to deal with (aside from grenades, of course, but I'll take that and raise you a 'grenades are basically point-blank weapons')

Okay let's assume that tanks are paper, rock is infantry,and scissors are anti tank infantry. And Rail tanks (or anti tank tanks) are part of paper too, for the same reason that anti infantry infantry (aka most of you) are part of rock, you counter yourself.

Paper beats rock, rock beats scissors,scissors beat rock. However these 3 can team up in various combinations to gain advantage.

Rock VS rock stalemates, so rock A brings in paper A to gain an advantage . Rock + paper beats rock. To counter Rock A's advantage, rock B brings in scissors, so we end up with rock + paper VS rock + scissors. Now scissors beat paper so paper is removed from the field, so we're down to rock VS rock + scissors! now since scissors is no longer needed they can withdraw, change to rock whatever, we end up back at rock VS rock.

Now we can throw together all sorts of nice combinations and changing circumstances and make some interesting tactical circumstances out of it, such as

Paper vs rock, paper wins. Rock changes to scissors. Paper vs scissors, scissors wins. Paper changes into rock as scissors divide into rock and scissors in case paper returns. Rock Vs rock + scissors. Rock has the advantage, to counter this rock B replaces scissors with paper. Rock VS rock + paper! rock +paper will win! now since Rock is low on scissors they call in paper as their backup, we now have Rock + paper VS rock + paper! they tie so rock calls in scissors! Rock + paper VS rock + paper + scissors.

And so on and so on, you get the idea, done right rock, paper, scissors can lead to interesting gameplay, now let's add AV nades to the mix.

Paper VS rock with AV nades, draw or rocks victory, rock can effectively neuter paper without having to call in scissors, that's how ridiculous the things are right now.

Infantry just cannot accept that the best counter to a tank should be another tank. No, it has to be infantry weapons, that are each all more powerful than a turret. That's like saying a 40mm 203 round is more powerful than the main gun of an Abrams.

23 pages of nothing but parrot talk.........

Vehicals are getting rebalanced, CCP have said there goal is to make tanks more "fun", therefore recognising, that they not so much fun at the moment

we could buff tanks, now av is inifective, we could buff av, now tanks are wack (more so)

CCP has said, and i agree, that the answer is within our active modules

Yes we got active modules now, but they still dont cut it, (if you cant kill a tank you suck, end off)

Surely this is the most logical way to go....

Get caught with your pants down, you die

Get attacked while in beast mode (then it should take a good few av to destroy said tank)

surely this is a + + for everyone, tanks will have to play more tacticle than now even, which is "surely" more fun and interesting

and av will have to time there attacks a bit more wisely