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Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1501	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:05:00 - [301] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: If make right, it will have the same or more HP than a CRU. Good luck with that. No, because its the Equivalent of a SUPPLY DEPO, not a CRU. So no, it would be equivalent OR barely stronger tahn a Supply depo. so basically a really giant extremely thin hanger area... yeah.. that makes sense.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 296	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:07:00 - [302] - Quote SgtDoughnut wrote: Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. Infantry have their cake and eat it to. Infantry can equip spam-able LOL'nades that deal 1764.0 HP per grenade while still being extremely effective at taking out infantry. Quote: They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. Double standard. We want to be while infantry already is. Also, why not? thats what all you infantry players do daily. Quote: If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. [quote] Well then, you're gonna have to multicrew your dropsuit and weapon. This means the wearer only moves while the gunner only shoots and the support guy has to select your equipment from the radical wheel. [quote]If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc. So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. Double standards. So, by that meaning if you want to run a solo dropsuit expect it to be paper thin and largely useless too. If you want a strong dropsuit expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair.
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1225	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:08:00 - [303] - Quote Guess you are right. If its destroyable i really dont care how much HP it has. But it must be Forge/Tank destroyable in order to be balanced.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 296	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:09:00 - [304] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: God tankers are so bitchy its funny. Here's the thing yes a tank should be this massive asset on the field for the team, not for 1 guy. Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. This just leads to everyone running tanks because its the only viable thing. If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc, and I say slightly stronger due to the fact they cost so much. If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. The more complex and team based a tank is the more powerful it can be due to the fact it requires more people to be effective. So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. translation: dust tanks are meant to be ** and strong tanks will not exist. my translation : solo tanks are meant to be and tanks with a crew should be awesome Double standards again. Solo dropsuits should then be complete ** like us and dropsuit with a crew should be awesome.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 296	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:19:00 - [305] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: And you have no idea what it's like to throw 3 Proto Packed AV grenades and 2 volleys of Proficency 4, 3x Complex Damage Mod Swarm's at a tank, only to watch it rep through the damage, turn around and smack you down in under a second. You have no idea what it's like to watch a tanker go 34-0, while simply running away with their repper on whenever they get low, reguardless of how much Proto AV you throw at them. OP - Get Bent. I have no respect for anyone who spec's tanks primary. They're just cowards looking for easy kills, who are trying to game the system as much as they can; exploit the obvious advantage in the game, since they don't have any real skill. I hope the tank 'patch' destroys tanking as a viable main spec, and reduces it to nothing more than an off-spec that anyone can go in to with little investment. And you all say that you want balance.
XxWarlordxX97 Ancient Exiles 4614	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:21:00 - [306] - Quote And how a shield tank can't fight a armor tank
Shattered Mirage native warlords 296	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:21:00 - [307] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: And still no one gives me answer How powerful should a tank operated by 1 man be? Multiple people have already answered you, I'm sure. So, you're either looking for an answer that you can turn against them so you have some sort of reason to change vehicles or, you're just trolling by now.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 296	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:28:00 - [308] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Void Echo wrote: it takes up one of your grenade slots... lol that's all you can come up with? you still have your primary and secondary weapons lol, your not affected by it at all. ONE OF YOUR GRENADE SLOTS? we only get 1...lol If you think like that i can tell you dont fully understand the implications of being infantry. The grenade slot is the second most important slot in any assault dropsuit.After my Light weapon slot. (one of the reasons why commandos actually suck...they dont have a grenade slot) Ask a Logi if they prefer to have a side arm instead of a grenade slot.ASK THEM. Then tell me the grenade slot is meaningless. If you dont know this.If you think the grenade slot is THAT meaningless,i can tell ,you dont have the slightest idea of what playing as infantry is about. And there by you should not comment about balancing AV weaponry, since you cant understand us. You say Non tankers should not talk about tanks,but then you come and tell me a grenade slot is not important? please , refrain from posting about AV balance.You will just break it on your favor.... Im sorry,but that post of you,was one of the most ignorant posts i've EVER read in the dust forums...like EVER. I sacrifice my grenade slot and Void tells me:''your not affected by it at all.'' that was just....i mean WOW... Please, stop exaggerating on the importance of that slot. I would much rather have an extra high or low than either sidearms and grenade slots.
Beld Errmon Evocatius 870	Posted - 2013.09.23 05:01:00 - [309] - Quote Its amazing how the same ppl can have the same argument over and over for weeks on end.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 161	Posted - 2013.09.23 05:12:00 - [310] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: NAh as i already exposed to the community scrubs several times, i use bald because i have poor eyesight and i needto find my posts faster. thats all. Edit: And you cant stop me. Most browsers have "control+f"( or "command+f" depending on OS) which brings ups search bar. The ones in Firefox and Internet Explorer allow you to tab between targeted words with the click of a button. Is far faster for searching text on a page. Not to mention there are screen magnifiers on both Windows and Mac so using bold for "bad vision" really doesn't fly.

Xender17 Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 670	Posted - 2013.09.23 05:41:00 - [311] - Quote For 1 week. Make infantry armor reps have cool down/duration. Remove equipment slots and make equipment useable in high/low slots. Increase PG/CPU requirement of weapons so that they HAVE to equip PG mods to be good... Make sidearms a requirement. Make racial variants cost 6x as much as basics. Remove proto everything, but weapons. See how they like it.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 854	Posted - 2013.09.23 05:49:00 - [312] - Quote Xender17 wrote: For 1 week. Make infantry armor reps have cool down/duration. Remove equipment slots and make equipment useable in high/low slots. Increase PG/CPU requirement of weapons so that they HAVE to equip PG mods to be good... Make sidearms a requirement. Make racial variants cost 6x as much as basics. Remove proto everything, but weapons. See how they like it. I'm fine with that.
Xender17 Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 671	Posted - 2013.09.23 05:56:00 - [313] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Xender17 wrote: For 1 week. Make infantry armor reps have cool down/duration. Remove equipment slots and make equipment useable in high/low slots. Increase PG/CPU requirement of weapons so that they HAVE to equip PG mods to be good... Make sidearms a requirement. Make racial variants cost 6x as much as basics. Remove proto everything, but weapons. See how they like it. I'm fine with that. But lock it from heavies
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 329	Posted - 2013.09.23 06:29:00 - [314] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: And still no one gives me answer How powerful should a tank operated by 1 man be? powerful enough to do considerable damage & be able to survive a single clash with AV. but if the driver is stupid, you can kill him. that an acceptable answer for you? or do you prefer an answer that sides with your argument and not with balance. so exactly how they are now?
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 854	Posted - 2013.09.23 06:41:00 - [315] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: And still no one gives me answer How powerful should a tank operated by 1 man be? powerful enough to do considerable damage & be able to survive a single clash with AV. but if the driver is stupid, you can kill him. that an acceptable answer for you? or do you prefer an answer that sides with your argument and not with balance. so exactly how they are now? Too easy to solo if you know what you're doing.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 629	Posted - 2013.09.23 07:09:00 - [316] - Quote Void Echo wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: There is no oasis for vehicle vs vehicle, so why should there be for infantry vs infantry? RED LINE Wait, so I have to redline snipe? You've gotten inline with Luki. LOL no broski. I've seen good tankers , like in manus peak near A Null cannon move around in circles between A and C,assoon as thy feel endangered they just retreat to the red line to repair/recall thei vehicle.THIS has NO COUNTER, there by, its your safe oasis. BTW , so many tankers here i have a question on my sucky tanking: Is putting a light shield regenerator too scrubby on an armored based tank? the recall system is TANKERS counter to you AV. Sorry they dont have a facepalm smiley, just imagine 1 in your mind! Why is it a counter? A counter requires forethought to equip it to your tank, not oh damn I beter get my tank abducted by aliens! All I have seen through this thread is tankers slinging ***** because tge counters they have aren't good enough, yet they continue tell ys they have these counters, they just shouldn't have to use them. But here is the thing I don't get Tanks are too expensive We pay for the power in isk and so I wont let others in my investment because they screw it up I should be strong enough without others! What a lot of tankers don't realise is that a tank is already strong, you complain so much at proto av, when even adv barely puts a dent in your tank! The amount of times 1 tank has steamrolled an entire team by him self because no-one happened to bring proto to the party. Yet we have to HTFU because we should have brought proto, because av only does its job at proto level!
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 39	Posted - 2013.09.23 07:12:00 - [317] - Quote This thread just keeps getting better and better! Xender17 wrote: For 1 week. Make infantry armor reps have cool down/duration. Remove equipment slots and make equipment useable in high/low slots. Increase PG/CPU requirement of weapons so that they HAVE to equip PG mods to be good... Make sidearms a requirement. Make racial variants cost 6x as much as basics. Remove proto everything, but weapons. See how they like it. So long as that week all vehicles are reduced to <1500 HP (including maxed out plates and extenders), with no damage reduction and full damage from small arms fire. The grass is always greener.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 629	Posted - 2013.09.23 07:16:00 - [318] - Quote Shattered Mirage wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: And still no one gives me answer How powerful should a tank operated by 1 man be? Multiple people have already answered you, I'm sure. So, you're either looking for an answer that you can turn against them so you have some sort of reason to change vehicles or, you're just trolling by now. At the time no-one hadcgiven me a straight up answer!
Toby Flenderson research lab The Superpowers 54	Posted - 2013.09.23 07:24:00 - [319] - Quote Xender17 wrote: For 1 week. Make infantry armor reps have cool down/duration. Remove equipment slots and make equipment useable in high/low slots. Increase PG/CPU requirement of weapons so that they HAVE to equip PG mods to be good... Make sidearms a requirement. Make racial variants cost 6x as much as basics. Remove proto everything, but weapons. See how they like it. Haha ok let's see... I'll happily take armor repair cool down/duration along with 6,000 armor. I won't need equipment with 6,000 armor and keep the slot empty just to spite you. I'll just use whatever the toxin equivalent is in a tank because that's what I run all the time so PG/CPU requirements are a joke. I like sidearms? Why is this even on the list of "see how they like it"? Racial variants of dropsuits are x8 so thanks for the x6. I run enhanced suits and with my 6,000 armor I don't need any proto modules. I'm struggling to see where you beat us on this but thanks for the 6,000 armor.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1092	Posted - 2013.09.23 07:29:00 - [320] - Quote Too many people comparing apples to oranges, as usual, on "both" sides.

Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 629	Posted - 2013.09.23 07:35:00 - [321] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Too many people comparing apples to oranges, as usual, on "both" sides. Well as void put it so well Tanks aren't dropsuits, so we should be able to recall them where we like But tanks are treated like dropsuits so we should be able to recall them where we like Disclaimer: Not a comment on this thread! We could compare oranges and they would still tell me they are apples to suit their needs!!
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 400	Posted - 2013.09.23 07:45:00 - [322] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: snip DONT EVER TALK ABOUT AV AGAIN IF YOU DONT WANT NON TANKERS POSTING ABOUT TANKS. This. Why it took until page 9? Who knows.... It should have been post #2 or #3. Speaking of early post starting with the original. Spkr4theDead wrote: snip It takes less than 300,000 SP to get Haywire Wiyrkomis. Fact snip Even skills with a 1x multiplier require over 300k SP to go from zero to level 5. Grenadier last I checked was a 4x, never-mind the prerequisites needed in Explosives and Weaponry. You really should be grateful that the SP investments for Turrets so much less than Weaponry. Soon as the spare SP is around I plan on getting my LAV BPO missile turret related skills to 5s. A total steal just for just over 600k SP.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1502	Posted - 2013.09.23 07:55:00 - [323] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: And still no one gives me answer How powerful should a tank operated by 1 man be? powerful enough to do considerable damage & be able to survive a single clash with AV. but if the driver is stupid, you can kill him. that an acceptable answer for you? or do you prefer an answer that sides with your argument and not with balance. so exactly how they are now? lol I give you a 2/10.. good comedy attempt
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1502	Posted - 2013.09.23 07:59:00 - [324] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Too many people comparing apples to oranges, as usual, on "both" sides. Well as void put it so well Tanks aren't dropsuits, so we should be able to recall them where we like But tanks are treated like dropsuits so we should be able to recall them where we like Disclaimer: Not a comment on this thread! We could compare oranges and they would still tell me they are apples to suit their needs!! I find it amusing when you put words in my mouth when it suits your argument but when its for balance you completely ignore it. also, either way vehicles need the recall system, the only change that is needed is an RDV coming down to pick it up.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 629	Posted - 2013.09.23 08:09:00 - [325] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Too many people comparing apples to oranges, as usual, on "both" sides. Well as void put it so well Tanks aren't dropsuits, so we should be able to recall them where we like But tanks are treated like dropsuits so we should be able to recall them where we like Disclaimer: Not a comment on this thread! We could compare oranges and they would still tell me they are apples to suit their needs!! I find it amusing when you put words in my mouth when it suits your argument but when its for balance you completely ignore it. also, either way vehicles need the recall system, the only change that is needed is an RDV coming down to pick it up. You find it amusing do you, but that is effectively what you said! Don't you remember our discussion! Most people were in agreement that bringing an RDV into the battlefield is unfair to dropships, you and I spent the best part of 3 hours going round in circles because you wouldn't concede a perfectly valid point! Your idea of balance doesn't fit, tell me why 1 man should get so much power because he put a bit of money towards it. As I said earlier which just suddenly decided you didn't like my train of thought and stopped answering. The tanks has the highest power per isk of anything on the battlefield, why should it get stronger?
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1502	Posted - 2013.09.23 08:17:00 - [326] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Void Echo wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Too many people comparing apples to oranges, as usual, on "both" sides. Well as void put it so well Tanks aren't dropsuits, so we should be able to recall them where we like But tanks are treated like dropsuits so we should be able to recall them where we like Disclaimer: Not a comment on this thread! We could compare oranges and they would still tell me they are apples to suit their needs!! I find it amusing when you put words in my mouth when it suits your argument but when its for balance you completely ignore it. also, either way vehicles need the recall system, the only change that is needed is an RDV coming down to pick it up. You find it amusing do you, but that is effectively what you said! Don't you remember our discussion! Most people were in agreement that bringing an RDV into the battlefield is unfair to dropships, you and I spent the best part of 3 hours going round in circles because you wouldn't concede a perfectly valid point! Your idea of balance doesn't fit, tell me why 1 man should get so much power because he put a bit of money towards it. As I said earlier which just suddenly decided you didn't like my train of thought and stopped answering. The tanks has the highest power per isk of anything on the battlefield, why should it get stronger? ok then let me put in infantry standards since you clearly don't have the brain capacity to understand it any other way.. basically what your saying is that even though people are specced into prototype dropsuits and gear, their fittings should be no better than militia fittings because basically in your own words: Quote: why 1 man should get so much power because he put a bit of money towards it like I said, according to you, everything including infantry equipment should be on the same level of militia gear, even though it costs more isk and SP to use. but look at that prototype is far superior to militia gear in every way & it costs more isk and SP to use it. your point is invalid under this fact.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 630	Posted - 2013.09.23 08:39:00 - [327] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Void Echo wrote: I find it amusing when you put words in my mouth when it suits your argument but when its for balance you completely ignore it. also, either way vehicles need the recall system, the only change that is needed is an RDV coming down to pick it up. You find it amusing do you, but that is effectively what you said! Don't you remember our discussion! Most people were in agreement that bringing an RDV into the battlefield is unfair to dropships, you and I spent the best part of 3 hours going round in circles because you wouldn't concede a perfectly valid point! Your idea of balance doesn't fit, tell me why 1 man should get so much power because he put a bit of money towards it. As I said earlier which just suddenly decided you didn't like my train of thought and stopped answering. The tanks has the highest power per isk of anything on the battlefield, why should it get stronger? ok then let me put in infantry standards since you clearly don't have the brain capacity to understand it any other way.. basically what your saying is that even though people are specced into prototype dropsuits and gear, their fittings should be no better than militia fittings because basically in your own words: Quote: why should 1 man should get so much power because he put a bit of money towards it notice in that question, you didn't say anything about the question being specific to tanks or anything, so your basically asking why should proto infantry have more power over militia? just because they spent more isk and SP? according to you, that's not balanced. like I said, according to you, everything including infantry equipment should be on the same level of militia gear, even though it costs more isk and SP to use. but look at that prototype is far superior to militia gear in every way & it costs more isk and SP to use it. your point is invalid under this fact. Now who is putting words in peoples mouths? Proto infantry gear is superior, Yes In every way, No You see you try explaining my point to me, you don't make sense, because you don't understand my point! Proto does not guarantee beating a miltia!! Lets get that out there first, a proto suit is an advantage almost a handicap if you will!! You have a higher probability to beat a mlt suit if you are wearing a proto suit. However a proto suit won't fair much better than a mlt suit against an enemy squad! You see proto suits allow you very little advantage at almost +ù100 the cost! A proto suit is not worth the investment most of the time! Thats why yoj leave it for sunday best! But to put it in a tanker perspective, if you invest more money in your tank I would expect you to fair better against other tanks, like suits do against suits. But against tanks a proto suit doesn't last long enough for his investment to have been useful in comparison to a mlt!
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1092	Posted - 2013.09.23 08:44:00 - [328] - Quote Interestingly enough a proto logi/assault tricked out to the brim is utter godlike against a basic medium suit, and equal skill vs equal skill will result in an almost guaranteed win for the protobunny. Also reading into this thread more I find it amusing how many people bring up balance around "In RL a single rpg/missile/whatever can kill a tank!" and ignore that you can also kill a person with a single bullet too... Should we nerf suits into the ground for this? Of course not... Maybe we could solve a lot by giving AV players WP for damaging a vehicle (With maybe a cool-down for abuse-prevention, like we have for nano-injectors or reppers.). We also need more "urban" maps (a lot of the new outposts are a good step towards this) where infantry can play separately from vehicles.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 630	Posted - 2013.09.23 09:16:00 - [329] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Interestingly enough a proto logi/assault tricked out to the brim is utter godlike against a basic medium suit, and equal skill vs equal skill will result in an almost guaranteed win for the protobunny. Also reading into this thread more I find it amusing how many people bring up balance around "In RL a single rpg/missile/whatever can kill a tank!" and ignore that you can also kill a person with a single bullet too... Should we nerf suits into the ground for this? Of course not... Maybe we could solve a lot by giving AV players WP for damaging a vehicle (With maybe a cool-down for abuse-prevention, like we have for nano-injectors or reppers.). We also need more "urban" maps (a lot of the new outposts are a good step towards this) where infantry can play separately from vehicles. In a white box, with no terrain no cover, just gladiator style fighting to the death, yes a proto will win against an equally skilled opponent/clone with lower tier gear! But this is not always the case. Remember just 2 weeks ago when all the protobears were whining they were getting killed, how aim assist was too much, how proto suits weren't enough of an advantage anymore? As for points for damaging vehicles, this would certainly help, not alleviate the problem and would certainly not permit a tanker buff, bit it would soothe the attitude of bitter avers!!
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 196	Posted - 2013.09.23 10:23:00 - [330] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Its about a little give and take!! I don't really agree. A tank is a special animal on the battlefield. I think we should expect that a single AV'er would be unlikely to take out a well piloted and outfitted tank. This includes proto forge gunners. AV'ers should coordinate their attacks in order to overcome the tanks defenses instead of expecting to kill it. However, as the supply depots are usually all destroyed this might take a team mentality instead of a KD/R or WP mentality. For example, it may be necessary to die before you can pull out enough AV to take them down. Now, I really don't expect to see this happening -- though it might cause some infantry to crap their pants. Tanks should be able to make infantry crap their pants. Until that happens they aren't really tanks. That would not work you know we have team limits and if one tank is able to bind 2 or more people this automatically creates an imbalance. So games would be bring in tanks or loose and this kind of playstyle should not be part in a FPS. As long as it is possible to drive one tank solo with full functionality it has to be possible to bring down a tank solo (on the same or lower tier) by AV weapons. I do agree that AV nades are some sort of a problem they should be only effective vs LAV unfortunately some LAV have a survivability like tanks...



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