lol, no

translation: dust tanks are meant to be **** and strong tanks will not exist.

please enlighten me on what game allows you to put personal investment in anything besides infantry.

If CCP only takes input from tankers, we'll have god mode tanks where the only counter for a tank is another tank.
Infantry are not only on the recieving end of a tanker, but they carry the AV that is meant to take down tanks, they should definately have a say. Majority of the players in the game are infantry anyways, cut them out of the loop and we'll have Vehicles 514.

Translation: Tanks can be extreamly powerful if crewed correctly and require more investment than just SP and ISK to use. Also from your statement, and previous statements you are one of those people who just want to drive around in your metal death box and laugh at people who did not invest in tanks. Seriously man think about balance not your own personal wants.

You cant really tank Void seriously, he got angry at someone and declared they werent a real tanker because they blew up another tank using a militia tank and good tactics like attacking from the rear
According to him the only want to tank is out in the open facing each other and you guys dont start shooting until the count of three

when a rail turret kills all with 1 shot, when a blaster turret kills a player in 1-2 hits. yet you in your tank can and do often survive 4 or 5 hits before blowing. its only when people are tired of your stomping that they turn to av and its never a single av player its always more.

and you say we have no right to say what happens with tanks.

if infantry are not allow to comment on how tanks should be then what gives a tanker the right to tell us how av should be

this is essentially what the whole argument comes down to

You cant really tank Void seriously, he got angry at someone and declared they werent a real tanker because they blew up another tank using a militia tank and good tactics like attacking from the rear
According to him the only want to tank is out in the open facing each other and you guys dont start shooting until the count of three

To non-AV guys making vehicle threads:

You don't AV.

You have no idea what it's like to see a third of your PRO swarms swerve into hillsides or simply vanish on the way to a target. You don't know what it's like to see a third of your Lai Dai throws "miss" because their guidance systems aren't as reliable as some tankers assume.

You don't AV. Stop thinking you know how it's supposed to work.

It takes less than 300,000 SP to get a Sica which takes more than 3 Haywire Wiyrkomis. Fact

You don't know what it's like to have to deal with blue dots that want to jump in front of every Swarm volley you fire. They get indignant that you won't use an AR like they do.

You don't AV.

So what do they do? They park LAVs in your path. They melee you when you're lining up a shot

I've skilled into at least standard tier of everything, and I still think almost all of the tankers are too selfish-
on the forums, you only fight for what gives you the biggest advantage, rather than what's best for the game as a whole.

Making them cheaper is infinitely better than making them even stronger.

His score doesn't bother me so much as he is complaining because he feels like he should have easily gotten a better score lol.

He killed 18 guys and lost nothing, and he is ******* crying about it!

So are we to refer to tankers as pilots now? Cause NO. Pilots fly. Tankers drive. Even in space.

So what because some people don't drive tanks we should have no say in their development, despite the fact its a part of the game that affects everyone?

While I agree the view of some non tankers is a bit irrational, you cant expect to sit by and allow you to overpower tanks, becausethat iis the view of some tankers.

Its about a little give and take!!

Sorry for arguing semantics. I'm sorry. Hope you see there is nothing wrong with calling yourselves tankers though.

please enlighten me on what game allows you to put personal investment in anything besides infantry.

It seems the "tankers" want to go back to the supertanker days during closed beta. Sorry tanks have always been vulnerable to a single person with a RPG. LIke always.

Tanks are called tanks for a reason. Massive suppression, massive firepower, and enough HP to take some damage before needing to run away.

So it's all about the WP? For merely suppressing a tank, there's no reward? Maybe you should petition CCP to put in Battlefield-like rewards.

To non-AV guys making vehicle threads:

You don't AV.

You have no idea what it's like to see a third of your PRO swarms swerve into hillsides or simply vanish on the way to a target. You don't know what it's like to see a third of your Lai Dai throws "miss" because their guidance systems aren't as reliable as some tankers assume.

You don't AV. Stop thinking you know how it's supposed to work.

It takes less than 300,000 SP to get a Sica which takes more than 3 Haywire Wiyrkomis. Fact

You don't know what it's like to have to deal with blue dots that want to jump in front of every Swarm volley you fire. They get indignant that you won't use an AR like they do.

You don't AV.

So what do they do? They park LAVs in your path. They melee you when you're lining up a shot. They make you think you're taking fire and panic-launch Swarms on the wrong angle. They throw grenades at you. They shoot you some more. They run you over in their LAVs to prove they can teamkill.

Every weapon but a Swarm Launcher counts as a direct threat to us. I remember during every build, seeing AV guys dying to ARs, Shotguns, Sniper Rifles on a regular basis. That obviously did not happen when in a vehicle.

---

You can't, as a pure tanker, tell the full story of how vehicle vs. AV should work, because you're biased. You've only played one side. Yes, the opinions of tankers, Dropship pilots, and legitimate NON-MURDER TAXI LAV drivers are valid and important. But so are the experiences of the grenadiers, Swarm guys and Forge Gunners who hunt those vehicles down.

Way back in E3, when tanks were arguably at their most powerful, and inarguably at their cheapest (with SIcas and Somas being handed out LITERALLY FOR FREE), I started out as an AV player. I ran Swarm Launchers, and I got pretty good with them. Back then, you could use Swarms for anti-infantry - they could be dumbfired and would explode on impact. No homing against anything but vehicles, but they were still a credible threat. I rarely used them in that way, preferring to save my limited ammo supply and switch to my trusty SMG when confronted with a soft target. I was, as an AV player, interested in the discussions of vehicle vs. AV balance, and I said my piece from what I believed was a well-reasoned perspective. I forget who it was, but someone made a thread much like this one, and I thought about it quite a lot. I created an alt, and I got into tanking for myself. I learned to drive (and I still want the optional L2/R2 LAV scheme on tanks, because shoving it all on the sticks is a horrible idea) and I learned to build a tank. I've sat and watched as Shield Tanks went from underpowered to overpowered and back, as Missile Turrets were broken OP, then "fixed" via nerfing everything at once until they stop doing anything, then fixed into moderate usefulness again. I know that vehicles and AV both need work, and I know this from experience on BOTH sides of the argument, not just one.

There are too many people on both sides of this problem who seem to think CCP can fix everything by only addressing one side. They can't. We need more tankers who are willing to listen to the AV guys, and we need more AV guys who realise that vehicles pilots/drivers know what we're doing too.

Can't we all just get along?

I do hate it when swarms hit things, so guided instead of lock on would be cool.

Anyways, This is just funny to me. Spark is taking is a little too far, but he does have a point. The infantry scrubs with no skill into vehicles should have a say, but when they speak like they have been lately, they should be shut up honestly.

I've skilled into at least standard tier of everything, and I still think almost all of the tankers are too selfish-
on the forums, you only fight for what gives you the biggest advantage, rather than what's best for the game as a whole.

Making them cheaper is infinitely better than making them even stronger.

You don't tank. ==> I have tanked.

You have no idea what it's like to see a third of your armor melt away from one volley of PRO swarms. You don't know what it's like to see a third of your armor melt away from one packed Lai Dai. ===> Yes i do.Even more than you,because my tank fit sucks a**... You dont know what it is to shoot 5 proto swarms at a tank, and leaving them with 5% HP,but its too late, he run away.Now you need to restock/reload/hope no infantry will see you. And hope for the best.

You don't AV. Stop thinking you know how they're supposed to work.

It takes less than 300,000 SP to get Haywire Wiyrkomis. Fact. ===>Thats not a fact.LOL you need 300000 SP JUST to get the LEVEL 5 on Swarm Operation. You are forgetting ALL the other levels , Proficiency.Of course dropsuit + modules+ equipment...So no.


You don't know what it's like to have to deal with blue dots that want to get in your tank for half a battle. They get indignant that you won't give them anything to shoot at. ===>I know . but this is another issue that CCP should grant vehicles users the ability to KICKa player from the vehicle they bought.


We don't have ADV or PRO vehicles.===>Nor you should have them,EVER....

Driver and main turret operation cannot be split up, because we do not rely on blue dots. The culmination of however good any of us are is the direct result of observing how blue dots are, which is useless, and knowing who in our squad we can rely on. We use the terrain to our advantage. We use range to our advantage. We use the time it takes to reload to our advantage. We use speed to our advantage.==>Same goes for AV then. If you dont want to use teamwork, TO DEPEND ON YOUR TEAM, then why do you feel teamwork is NEEDED to take tanks down? If you want to solo , then AV'rs should be able to solo too.

I absolutely will not rely on a blue dot I do not know to man my turret, because I'll be damned if I'm going to let a random drive my tank. Splitting operation would be the absolute worst thing CCP could do for tanking, and would destroy it completely. As a result, most tanks would probably biomass their character and either start going full infantry, or just never play this game again.===>Agreed.

You don't tank. You don't have experience tanking. ===>I have tanked, im not saying im great at it.


What happened when everybody complained about contact grenades. They got nerfed into the ground. Next time a tanker complains about AV grenades, make sure you remember what I said about infantry contact grenades.
Double standards ==>ACtually NO. Contact grenades were PAY TO WIN for a long time. 1 HKOd Proto suits. Doesnt matter the AV nade. i cannot 1HKO your tank with it.PLUS the fact that the situation/positioning of the AV in order to effectivley hit a tank ultiple times to kill it is very precise. If you are getting killed by AV nades,you are doing it wrong.

Contact grenades are/were the only thing that homed in on infantry. We have to worry about swarm launchers, which track us for 400m before automatically terminating. When they hit, they hit hard, really hard. Wiyrkomis hit for around 7000 damage against armor before having to reload, if all 3 volleys hit.===>IF ALL 3 VOLLEYS HIT. You are not tanking into consideration damage reduction modules nor the insane regen capability Tanks have I have hit a tank With all 5 volleys of my proto Swarms ( 1 of them hit a building) and guess what? HE LIVED.

Contact grenades got nerfed. AV grenades haven't.==>AV nades shoudlnt get a nrf.

Terrain damages vehicles. Not so much anymore for infantry. ==> Agreed thats bullcrap.

Next time another non-pilot makes a thread about tanks, whatever it may be, remember this thread.===>Its funny. YOu might have used AVs in the past. BUT YOU ARE NOT AN AV SOLDIER.Yet you do give your opinion on everything AV related dont you? but you think someone who DOESNT tank 100% of the time cant give his opinion on tanks? Talk about bad logic...


Remember what I said before you complain about AV. We not only have to deal with OTHER infantry,your SPEEDY tanks that can take our Proto AV weaponry and RUN away to heal or kill us,BUT we ALSO have to deal with stupid blue dots as well.

YOU DONT AV. DONT EVER TALK ABOUT AV AGAIN IF YOU DONT WANT NON TANKERS POSTING ABOUT TANKS.

Late Edit:

THIS IS WHAT AV weaponry does to vehicles... WITH ONE SHOT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFyXRktIAgo

we do know what's it's like to see all of our armor and hp disappear from tank blasters and rail guns.

Who are you to tell me i dont tank?
Sure , my MAIN is not tanker, i did a different one for that.

but you run most of the time tanks that doesnt make you an AV specialist, same as me playing 10% of my time as a tanker does not make me a tanker.
OH,and swarm launcher op level 3 is not having PROTO SWARMS lol.