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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
158
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Posted - 2013.09.22 19:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
You think it should destroy a tank with one hit. At least, that's what you sound like.
and you think a tank should kill all and survive every game. thats what you sound like =/= Is it wrong saying it should require teamwork to take down a tank? Or have another tank available that could take advantage of a weakness? Yeah, I laugh when I see enforcers on the field, but when I see them using a turret they get their bonus too, I worry a bit. Falchion with XT-201 accelerated? I'll keep it back with a railgun. Vayu with scattered ion cannon? Same thing, railgun. Christ, you put up a petition to have tanks removed! You're as biased as they get. you couldn't be more wrong. i want tanks. just not the solo god like killing machines that you want. and why should it take a team to take out a tank that can solo. that is not balance. thats as one sided as it gets. if it took 3 people to operate the tank and 3 people to take it out then thats an acceptable balance.
I have a question, if one person with an AR can simply shoot a tank to destroy it... What's the purpose of even having a tank? According to you "this is acceptable balance".
You keep complaining to make tanks weaker , yet you never once ever explained how a tank should be operated? Cowering from 300+ meters away because encountering any AV means instant destruction?(this example is made using your models not the current ingame settings)
If tanks were weakened to the point that a single AV player could blow it up before it gets close enough to engage... What's the purpose of a tank? It has to be able to take a beating of some kind as it approaches because it can't hide anywhere and everywhere like infantry can. Tanks cannot hide period! It's literally impossible to loose track of a tank because they can be seen from the areal map.
Basically tanks exchange all the defensive benefits that infantry have for a bit of armor and firepower.
So if a tank can't have that what is it supposed to do? |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
158
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 20:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote: .
So no, that video is highly suspect. Youll grasp at any straw you can wont you Want me to post a deluge of videos or do you want to save me the time and just search "RPG vs tank" in youtube
Ehh? Commenting that a military propaganda video looks funny is now taboo for you? Interesting.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
159
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Posted - 2013.09.22 20:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
I have a question, if one person with an AR can simply shoot a tank to destroy it... What's the purpose of even having a tank? According to you "this is acceptable balance".
You keep complaining to make tanks weaker , yet you never once ever explained how a tank should be operated? Cowering from 300+ meters away because encountering any AV means instant destruction?(this example is made using your models not the current ingame settings)
If tanks were weakened to the point that a single AV player could blow it up before it gets close enough to engage... What's the purpose of a tank? It has to be able to take a beating of some kind as it approaches because it can't hide anywhere and everywhere like infantry can. Tanks cannot hide period! It's literally impossible to loose track of a tank because they can be seen from the areal map.
Basically tanks exchange all the defensive benefits that infantry have for a bit of armor and firepower.
So if a tank can't have that what is it supposed to do?
where did i mention that. i made no mention in any of my posts that a single person should be able to take out a tank let alone with an AR. i also have never made any points to make tanks weaker. i also made no mention that tanks should be one shot by av.
That first "AR" was my spell check messing up"AV".
You stated in the post I quoted earlier that a tank shouldn't need a team to take it down (aka 2 or more players clearly indicating a solo job)
You also never answered how tanks should operate. Instead you tried to skip the answer by making accusations. Many others may be easily distracted but I'm asking for explanations. |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
160
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 01:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Void Echo wrote:SgtDoughnut wrote:God tankers are so bitchy its funny. Here's the thing yes a tank should be this massive asset on the field for the team, not for 1 guy. Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. This just leads to everyone running tanks because its the only viable thing. If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc, and I say slightly stronger due to the fact they cost so much. If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. The more complex and team based a tank is the more powerful it can be due to the fact it requires more people to be effective.
So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. translation: dust tanks are meant to be **** and strong tanks will not exist. my translation : solo tanks are meant to be **** and tanks with a crew should be awesome
Lets chop your dropsuits into three as well! You control the legs, one person does the equipment, and another does the guns! I mean it's fair right? You paid for that suit so that all these other guys could get free rides doing whatever they feel!
So while you move the suit toward the combat zone guy 2 thinks your too slow so he drops your nano hives and grenades to "lighten the load" while the guy on the gun is swinging back and forth taking pot shots and using ammo without regard for supply. But that doesn't matter cause its now balanced with tanks! Congratulations! Your suit is now officially useless for general use! |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
161
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 02:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:And you have no idea what it's like to throw 3 Proto Packed AV grenades and 2 volleys of Proficency 4, 3x Complex Damage Mod Swarm's at a tank, only to watch it rep through the damage, turn around and smack you down in under a second.
You have no idea what it's like to watch a tanker go 34-0, while simply running away with their repper on whenever they get low, reguardless of how much Proto AV you throw at them.
OP - Get Bent.
I have no respect for anyone who spec's tanks primary. They're just cowards looking for easy kills, who are trying to game the system as much as they can; exploit the obvious advantage in the game, since they don't have any real skill. I hope the tank 'patch' destroys tanking as a viable main spec, and reduces it to nothing more than an off-spec that anyone can go in to with little investment.
Would love to see some videos of you tanking like that. I mean if its so easy you should have no problems doing such. Remember, you have to get 34/0 in that tank without ever getting out, hence the need for recording. |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
161
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 03:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
SgtDoughnut wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Void Echo wrote:SgtDoughnut wrote:God tankers are so bitchy its funny. Here's the thing yes a tank should be this massive asset on the field for the team, not for 1 guy. Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. This just leads to everyone running tanks because its the only viable thing. If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc, and I say slightly stronger due to the fact they cost so much. If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. The more complex and team based a tank is the more powerful it can be due to the fact it requires more people to be effective.
So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. translation: dust tanks are meant to be **** and strong tanks will not exist. my translation : solo tanks are meant to be **** and tanks with a crew should be awesome Lets chop your dropsuits into three as well! You control the legs, one person does the equipment, and another does the guns! I mean it's fair right? You paid for that suit so that all these other guys could get free rides doing whatever they feel! So while you move the suit toward the combat zone guy 2 thinks your too slow so he drops your nano hives and grenades to "lighten the load" while the guy on the gun is swinging back and forth taking pot shots and using ammo without regard for supply. But that doesn't matter cause its now balanced with tanks! Congratulations! Your suit is now officially useless for general use! Bah gotta love people who want tanks to be killing machines without any form of balance, just rolling death boxes of metal. Heres the thing, I want tanks to be powerful, more powerful than they were in chromesome, but there needs to be a trade off. And the trade off is just like in planetside 1 you have a driver and a gunner. The driver drives the tank the gunner is in charge of assessing threats and taking out targets. More guns (since our tanks have 3) = more gunners. so 1 driver and 3 gunners. No matter how much you tankers want to say that the tank is your suit, its not its an extra layer of armor,shielding, and even makes you move faster than a regular infantry soldier. If one tank piloted by one person is able to wipe out the enitre other team, unless that entire team pulls out AV equipment, that is highly unbalanced in favor of the tank. Considering a RPG, which is just a grenade on the end of a rocket, is able to take out an M1 abrams, the most advanced tank in the world, just by hitting it in the treads your idea that a tank should have no worry from lone infantry is totally invalid. Give a tank a minimum of 2 to be effective 1 driver and 1 gunner and you can have the tanks that are monsters on the battlefield. But get this idea out of your head that just because you decided to skill into tanks you should get 4 times more armor, 3 times more sheild, the ability to self repair at a much higher rate, and much higher dps that can damage both structure and infantry. Tanks have to be balanced against both their complexity and their cost, right now yes they are very weak but at the same time they are still slightly stronger than even 1 infantry in proto gear without AV, and if they have AV they are ****** against infantry.
You kind of swerved in and out of the topic there. Planetside vehicles can be split amongst multiple people because the vehicles don't cost personal investment. Rather they are made with combat points. If tanks in dust could be created with mere points instead of ISK that solution would make sense, but these are personal investments.
Also, that bizarre tale of requiring 3 people to run a dropsuit and how they react... Is day to day reality as tanks stand now. I merely placed common infantry terms in place of the suggested equipment and gunner roles. The fact you thought the separation idea was an extremist viewpoint just because it says "infantry" instead of "tanks" speaks loads about your views. But it also says quite a lot about being overly eager to jump to conclusions, as a 3 part tank system would be worthless in regular battle and force the tankers to pull friends or corp mates into each battle with them or else have a completely useless investment.
Now, if there was a different class of tank that required 3 people that might be interesting, but so far tanks are advertised as singular control units. |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
161
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 03:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Void Echo wrote:
the recall system is TANKERS counter to you AV.
So when tanks get buffed you are saying you are ok with removing this feature? you know, for balance sake?...I know your answer,i just want to hear it from your lips..... Nope. Changing it so where until the modules cool off, and it will come in with the same health (maybe slightly repped, say 50-100 HP/s for both tanks) as it had when it lefted the ground. You are not Void.
Stop answering question that are not directed at you.
Attention wh0re much?
You write all your posts with bold stuck on. :/
You don't really have the right to accuse others of being an attention grabber.
Even your name is written in caps lock, and not to mention excessively boastful? |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
161
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 05:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:NAh as i already exposed to the community scrubs several times, i use bald because i have poor eyesight and i needto find my posts faster. thats all.
Edit: And you cant stop me.
Most browsers have "control+f"( or "command+f" depending on OS) which brings ups search bar. The ones in Firefox and Internet Explorer allow you to tab between targeted words with the click of a button. Is far faster for searching text on a page.
Not to mention there are screen magnifiers on both Windows and Mac so using bold for "bad vision" really doesn't fly. |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
179
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 20:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fist Groinpunch wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Infantry just cannot accept that the best counter to a tank should be another tank. No, it has to be infantry weapons, that are each all more powerful than a turret. That's like saying a 40mm 203 round is more powerful than the main gun of an Abrams. What if out of the 16 players on the opposing team, none happen to be skilled into HAVs? By your logic they should just line up, drop their pants and take it from the one HAV pilot on the other team for the whole round? Nothing makes people quit a competitive game like DUST quite like the feeling of being powerless. Proto squad stomping creates that feeling. HAV stomping creates that feeling even more. It's not a good time. I remember playing one round back in Chromosome where there were two tanks spider repping each other and my team was just impotent against them. When a bunch of us went AV and still couldn't take the two tanks down, the other team's infantry stomped us hard. It was a horrible round that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
You claim it's more potent when a tank is present, but that is not true. What is really happening is that you can repetitively pick out from all your deaths, which ones are caused by tanks, but you cannot so so with visual recognition via prototype armors. Even if the proto user killed you personally 2x as much as the tank, you take more offense from the tank because you identify it easier. The proto on the other hand kind of blends in with the memories of all the other suit types that may have killed you.
This is relevant for a good deal of the gaming community anymore because a lot of them only make decisions based on the visuals. |
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