What do you mean now? they always have. Where you been bro?

Some? A bit irrational?

A grenade that does ~2000 damage to armor isn't enough! A tracking AV weapon that does > 2000 damage per volley isn't enough! It's not enough to merely suppress a tank and make it go away! How is that just a bit irrational?

Some? A bit irrational?

A grenade that does ~2000 damage to armor isn't enough! A tracking AV weapon that does > 2000 damage per volley isn't enough! It's not enough to merely suppress a tank and make it go away! How is that just a bit irrational?

when a rail turret kills all with 1 shot, when a blaster turret kills a player in 1-2 hits. yet you in your tank can and do often survive 4 or 5 hits before blowing. its only when people are tired of your stomping that they turn to av and its never a single av player its always more.

and you say we have no right to say what happens with tanks.

What good is a tank if it doesn't do a lot of damage? You have a hull with no better than an Exile rifle. Is that what you want? They're called tanks for a reason. They take a lot of damage, and they have a really big gun.

Shall we talk about the disparity between large railgun turrets and forge guns? You decide

If they were that vulnerable, we wouldn't be using them in the Middle East.

Why are you so afraid of tanks? You're given incredibly effective and easy to use tools to take care of them, yet you still complain and seem scared. Why are you scared?

What good is a tank if it doesn't do a lot of damage? You have a hull with no better than an Exile rifle. Is that what you want? They're called tanks for a reason. They take a lot of damage, and they have a really big gun.

Shall we talk about the disparity between large railgun turrets and forge guns? You decide

This isn't World of Tanks, and from what I've gathered from other people telling me about the game, it's still the one player controlling the whole tank, not a couple people operating it cooperatively. So any point you were trying to make is still moot, because, well, it's a game.

Please, assume I'm an idiot and know nothing about American firepower. The same concept carries through to Dust.

PRO crutches are what they are.

I don't remember "supertanker" days.

Amen brotha!

It's like I've said in other threads; killing a tank shouldn't be the deciding factor with solo proto AVers. They seem to want to be able to kill the tank or it's unacceptable.

Removing the tank from the fight should be the goal of proto AV abilities. When the tank is scared off and has to recoup it is a non-issue.

A tanker shouldn't have to deal with either alive or dead. I want to enjoy a tank in a match. My tank should be able to stay alive if I plan ahead for my mods. Your only worry as infantry is that the tank is in the fight. If my tank is out of the fight repping and cooling down then we both win. I can continue to use the thing I trained in and enjoy the game. You get to not worry about my tank for awhile.

So we're still at this point, because even after so many consecutive nerfs to tanks, and so many parallel buffs to AV, infantry still think tanks are overpowered? From a point over a year ago, to now? All of that considered, tanks are still overpowered?

Got it

Tanks are called tanks for a reason. Massive suppression, massive firepower, and enough HP to take some damage before needing to run away.

So it's all about the WP? For merely suppressing a tank, there's no reward? Maybe you should petition CCP to put in Battlefield-like rewards.

You think it should destroy a tank with one hit. At least, that's what you sound like.

You conveniently left out damage done, and the fact that you could put on damage mods without sacrificing much defense.

=/=

Is it wrong saying it should require teamwork to take down a tank? Or have another tank available that could take advantage of a weakness? Yeah, I laugh when I see enforcers on the field, but when I see them using a turret they get their bonus too, I worry a bit. Falchion with XT-201 accelerated? I'll keep it back with a railgun. Vayu with scattered ion cannon? Same thing, railgun.

Christ, you put up a petition to have tanks removed! You're as biased as they get.

Anything else?

If they were that vulnerable, we wouldn't be using them in the Middle East.

Why are you so afraid of tanks? You're given incredibly effective and easy to use tools to take care of them, yet you still complain and seem scared. Why are you scared?

Here's the most ill-informed infantryman replying to a tank thread.

Anything else?

Have you read any of the threads made by people that don't tank? That would be like us telling you how your dropsuits, weapons and equipment work. "It takes too long for me to kill you with my STD blaster, therefore your HP should be lowered, or extenders should be lowered." It just doesn't work that way. You're not going to be using a tank when the vehicle balance pass comes, so why do you care?

Is it wrong saying it should require teamwork to take down a tank?

One guy running around with a hand portable weapon should not be able to single handedly take out a tank.

LOL You cannot be serious. The cameraman stayed behind the wall. There's characteristic smoke trailing RPGs. Everybody knows that. Then, in the next edited shot of the tank being destroyed (it's edited because it's 2 different cameras, and therefore suspect), there's no smoke trail. Plus, it's a Russian tank, not American or British. Like the AK-47, they mass produce things to send them off for other peoples' wars.

So no, that video is highly suspect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qHL7jET8Gc

Since someone mentioned posting video of people actually dying Im trying to limit it to test videos for now but theres a deluge of stuff from syria as Im sure you understand

Inb4 "herp derp thats not an rpg" You are right, its a step up and more akin to what the game is actually giving us

So basically you are saying:

- Tank doesn't need to be destroyed, as AV's main goal should be to keep them out of the fight.

- In order to take out a tank, a player must be a very good AVer and be able to take out the tank via superior tactical abilities, smart planning, and working as a team (you didn't specifically mention working as a team, but I assume that is implied).



Here's why the above is unreasonable:

I agree getting the tank out of the fight is a very good thing, but the AV player isn't rewarded any WP for dealing damage. An AV player could successfully push a tank back all match long, but they still get zero WP for all their effort at the end of the match. They may even die several times since they are extremely vulnerable to infantry players. And if they are running proto, that could equate to hundreds of thousands lost. What do they get out of it? Nothing except performing a thankless job and helping our fellow blueberries from getting slaughtered by a tank.

If you want to see this kind of scenario play out the way you would like, then we need to get CCP to introduce some kind of WP for damaging vehicles, that way an AV player actually gets rewarded even if they don't destroy the tank. But as it is now, the best course of action in terms of reward is to try to destroy the tank, and honestly even that reward is insignificant vs playing as an anti-infantry player. Heck, damage WP would actually be better for both the AV player and the tankers, since we could get a ton of damage WP for keeping a tank held back for the entire match. Whereas destroying it right away gives very little WP.

And I've said it many times before but feel the need to say it again, bringing AV into a majority anti-infantry fight, is pretty much a death sentence. Tankers act like every single player can just whip out AV at any point in time, but in reality that is not the case whatsoever, unless that player happens to be standing right next to a supply depot under freindly control and safe from enemy fire. And in regular ambush matches, the only way to switch to AV is to die. If every infantry player could carry simultaneous full AV and full anti-infantry load-outs, then it would be different.


As for a player having to be a expert AV to destroy a tank, come on now, anybody can buy and use a tank. And just because somebody decides to bring one in shouldn't automatically make them near impossible to kill by all but the most dedicated AV players. A tankers survival is dependent on their skill, not by the machine they bring in. That's like saying "if I bring in a proto suit, then that means only the pros should be able to take me out". You tankers think you have it bad, my 220k proto suit can get taken out by a militia AR in less than a second.

OH, im sorry. I wasnt crying,i was exagerating. Im, for the first time, accept your adult way of handeling it and i'll try to be at the same level. Sorry if i sound childish but remember english not being my main language might end in some confusion.

Point being, Tanks are way to expensive for the low chances of survival in OPEN AREAS. But i feel they are way too fast too.
So a high HP increase should come to hand with a heavy speed decrease. You cant have Speed,firefower AND resiliance...you need to give one up in order to keep it balanced...

Armor plates do. Like I said, we have Nitro.

That means we can escape AV grenade spam too fast, and that's just not allowed.

AND:

''LOL Why are you mad at a nitrous module? Because we can escape danger faster with it?''


EXACTLY!

you finally understand.
IF you are in a situation where they are throwing AV nades at you,you pretty much deserve to die for peeking where you are not supposed to, same as infantry seal their fate while running from A to B in the open and there is a tank....

Tanks are Support, get it in your heads.You are not meant to run the game.Not to be the main protagonist of your team.
Support people.Support.

Of couse, im not saying you should ONLY be SLOW. Im saying you should be at least 50% slower...And have 50% + HP...

This jack is really hitting my AV nerves...

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

So you're mad we have a module to make us move faster? Gets us away from AV grenade spam. Areas we're not supposed to be in? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

What, is the map your "room," and you don't want your annoying little brother coming in? LOL!

I dont understood -+ of th stuff you said there. I only understood this:
''I want More HP,.while being fast and 1-2 HKO infantry , LOL mad skillz...Ah and i forgot i want to be able to run over prox mines and take AV nades in the face,be able to go wherever i want,and infantry should not have a single place to hide from my tank. AND still be able to boost my nitro,run aways with all active mods on , get in the redline,call back my tanks and bring down another one... True balace FTW''

LOL @ U.

Where did I say any of that?

No it wasn't. I never said anything of the sort. I was laughing at you because you said it's not fair we have a nitrous module. How did you come to the brilliant conclusion that I was inadvertently whining for everything else you mentioned?

You don't tank.

You have no idea what it's like to see a third of your armor melt away from one volley of PRO swarms. You don't know what it's like to see a third of your armor melt away from one packed Lai Dai.

powerful enough to do considerable damage & be able to survive a single clash with AV. but if the driver is stupid, you can kill him.

that an acceptable answer for you?
or do you prefer an answer that sides with your argument and not with balance.

For 1 week.
Make infantry armor reps have cool down/duration.
Remove equipment slots and make equipment useable in high/low slots.
Increase PG/CPU requirement of weapons so that they HAVE to equip PG mods to be good...
Make sidearms a requirement.
Make racial variants cost 6x as much as basics.
Remove proto everything, but weapons.


See how they like it.

snip

It takes less than 300,000 SP to get Haywire Wiyrkomis. Fact

snip

a third of your armor melt away from one volley of PRO swarms.

use teamwork? spawn at your base in your av fit and have a team or squadmate drop you off with a dropship or lav. do your thing, and then have them drive you back to base and switch suits again. repeat as needed

i change rock to paper all the time. if i see an armor tank, ill use explosive weapons. if its a shield tank ill use a blaster. then ill swap tanks after im done. only difference is i can swap where ever i want lol

Lets chop your dropsuits into three as well! You control the legs, one person does the equipment, and another does the guns! I mean it's fair right? You paid for that suit so that all these other guys could get free rides doing whatever they feel!

So while you move the suit toward the combat zone guy 2 thinks your too slow so he drops your nano hives and grenades to "lighten the load" while the guy on the gun is swinging back and forth taking pot shots and using ammo without regard for supply. But that doesn't matter cause its now balanced with tanks! Congratulations! Your suit is now officially useless for general use!

lol so by your recconing you would need 9 people to work your tank beacause there are 3 inside with 3 controlling each suit. Don't give me that rubbish. Your a merc first then a tank driver

Of course, we can't make infantry use teamwork right? they have to be able to godmode solo whenever the hell they like, right?
Why not even consider it? That is what you want to do to us, its only fair.

Too easy to solo if you know what you're doing.

Double standards again. Solo dropsuits should then be complete **** like us and dropsuit with a crew should be awesome.

You don't tank.

You have no idea what it's like to see a third of your armor melt away from one volley of PRO swarms. You don't know what it's like to see a third of your armor melt away from one packed Lai Dai.

You don't tank. Stop thinking you know how they're supposed to work.

It takes less than 300,000 SP to get Haywire Wiyrkomis. Fact

You don't know what it's like to have to deal with blue dots that want to get in your tank for half a battle. They get indignant that you won't give them anything to shoot at.

You don't tank.

So what do they do? They shoot your tank. They melee it. They shoot it some more. They throw grenades at it. They shoot it some more. They get back in the turret. They shoot the turret. They switch seats if they're the only other one in it. They switch seats rapidly in hopes of getting the driver's seat. They jump out and shoot the tank again. They punch the tank again. They get back in the tank and fire the turrets at nothing.

Every installation counts as a direct threat to us. I remember during Chromosome, I forgot which skill it was, that at level 5, caused turrets to not shoot at you when you ran towards them. That obviously did not work when in a vehicle.

We don't have ADV or PRO vehicles.

Driver and main turret operation cannot be split up, because we do not rely on blue dots. The culmination of however good any of us are is the direct result of observing how blue dots are, which is useless, and knowing who in our squad we can rely on. We use the terrain to our advantage. We use range to our advantage. We use the time it takes to reload to our advantage. We use speed to our advantage.

I absolutely will not rely on a blue dot I do not know to man my turret, because I'll be damned if I'm going to let a random drive my tank. Splitting operation would be the absolute worst thing CCP could do for tanking, and would destroy it completely. As a result, most tanks would probably biomass their character and either start going full infantry, or just never play this game again.

You don't tank. You don't have experience tanking.

MLT hull and modules =/= STD hull and modules.

What happened when everybody complained about contact grenades. They got nerfed into the ground. Next time a tanker complains about AV grenades, make sure you remember what I said about infantry contact grenades.

Double standards

Contact grenades are/were the only thing that homed in on infantry. We have to worry about swarm launchers, which track us for 400m before automatically terminating. When they hit, they hit hard, really hard. Wiyrkomis hit for around 7000 damage against armor before having to reload, if all 3 volleys hit.

Contact grenades got nerfed. AV grenades haven't.

Terrain damages vehicles. Not so much anymore for infantry.

Next time another non-pilot makes a thread about tanks, whatever it may be, remember this thread.

You don't have the experience we have. It's actually quite easy to destroy us, if you know how to do it, and considering the complaints on here about tanks, only a sad few actually know how to destroy us. If it takes a tanker to write out how to destroy us, you're doing it wrong now, you did it wrong before, and you'll probably continue to do it wrong until you reach that eureka moment, when you and 2 people beside you destroy a tank in 3 seconds. Until then, you'll vainly try to solo the best tankers in the game.

Also, the huge majority of us are in skirmish and domination, not ambush. When you say "tank" and "ambush" in the same sentence, I want you to take a few minutes and think really hard before posting a reply / threat with those words in the same sentence. The guys that habitually tank in ambush are the ones worried about KD/R. The rest of us just want to win and kill a few infantry along the way.

You don't tank.

I've heard that those who tank in ambush, do poorly when it comes to skirmish / domination / faction warfare / planetary conquest, because they don't have to worry about much in ambush. In the other modes, they have to worry about the world trying to kill them.

Remember what I said before you complain about tanks. We not only have to deal with your PRO gear, we have to deal with stupid blue dots as well.

Late Edit:

This is what happens when you shoot a tank with a rifle. Remember that.

Will it make you happier when we start spec'ing into the pilot suit to make our vehicles stronger? Or would that be OP?

Why do you want preplanning,....................and SP nerfed?

notice in that question, you didn't say anything about the question being specific to tanks or anything, so your basically asking why should proto infantry have more power over militia? just because they spent more isk and SP? according to you, that's not balanced.

like I said, according to you, everything including infantry equipment should be on the same level of militia gear, even though it costs more isk and SP to use.

but look at that prototype is far superior to militia gear in every way & it costs more isk and SP to use it.

your point is invalid under this fact.

I disagree with the weapons bit. Scaled up versions of infantry weapons could be used against infantry but it seems that most people are complaining about the AV grenades and SL. There is obviously a scale to balance the extended HP with higher damage weapons but another thing to consider is that tanks use armor repair and damage reduction. I can sit there and toss 3 proto packed AV grenades at a tank and watch it repair itself in between tosses so that my net damage is 0 by the time I get to lock on with a SL. Infantry cannot do this. So it's not just scaled numbers, there are different mechanics involved.

Infantry just cannot accept that the best counter to a tank should be another tank. No, it has to be infantry weapons, that are each all more powerful than a turret. That's like saying a 40mm 203 round is more powerful than the main gun of an Abrams.

Infantry just cannot accept that the best counter to a tank should be another tank. No, it has to be infantry weapons, that are each all more powerful than a turret. That's like saying a 40mm 203 round is more powerful than the main gun of an Abrams.

Please stop posting on my thread.