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Shattered Mirage native warlords 296	Posted - 2013.09.23 00:21:00 - [1] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: [b]@ ADAMANCE BTW,Prox mines need a BUff.like srsly... I agree with you there... not a ridiculous buff mind you, but, nonetheless they need a buff.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 296	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:07:00 - [2] - Quote SgtDoughnut wrote: Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. Infantry have their cake and eat it to. Infantry can equip spam-able LOL'nades that deal 1764.0 HP per grenade while still being extremely effective at taking out infantry. Quote: They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. Double standard. We want to be while infantry already is. Also, why not? thats what all you infantry players do daily. Quote: If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. [quote] Well then, you're gonna have to multicrew your dropsuit and weapon. This means the wearer only moves while the gunner only shoots and the support guy has to select your equipment from the radical wheel. [quote]If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc. So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. Double standards. So, by that meaning if you want to run a solo dropsuit expect it to be paper thin and largely useless too. If you want a strong dropsuit expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 296	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:09:00 - [3] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: God tankers are so bitchy its funny. Here's the thing yes a tank should be this massive asset on the field for the team, not for 1 guy. Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. This just leads to everyone running tanks because its the only viable thing. If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc, and I say slightly stronger due to the fact they cost so much. If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. The more complex and team based a tank is the more powerful it can be due to the fact it requires more people to be effective. So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. translation: dust tanks are meant to be ** and strong tanks will not exist. my translation : solo tanks are meant to be and tanks with a crew should be awesome Double standards again. Solo dropsuits should then be complete ** like us and dropsuit with a crew should be awesome.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 296	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:19:00 - [4] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: And you have no idea what it's like to throw 3 Proto Packed AV grenades and 2 volleys of Proficency 4, 3x Complex Damage Mod Swarm's at a tank, only to watch it rep through the damage, turn around and smack you down in under a second. You have no idea what it's like to watch a tanker go 34-0, while simply running away with their repper on whenever they get low, reguardless of how much Proto AV you throw at them. OP - Get Bent. I have no respect for anyone who spec's tanks primary. They're just cowards looking for easy kills, who are trying to game the system as much as they can; exploit the obvious advantage in the game, since they don't have any real skill. I hope the tank 'patch' destroys tanking as a viable main spec, and reduces it to nothing more than an off-spec that anyone can go in to with little investment. And you all say that you want balance.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 296	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:21:00 - [5] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: And still no one gives me answer How powerful should a tank operated by 1 man be? Multiple people have already answered you, I'm sure. So, you're either looking for an answer that you can turn against them so you have some sort of reason to change vehicles or, you're just trolling by now.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 296	Posted - 2013.09.23 04:28:00 - [6] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Void Echo wrote: it takes up one of your grenade slots... lol that's all you can come up with? you still have your primary and secondary weapons lol, your not affected by it at all. ONE OF YOUR GRENADE SLOTS? we only get 1...lol If you think like that i can tell you dont fully understand the implications of being infantry. The grenade slot is the second most important slot in any assault dropsuit.After my Light weapon slot. (one of the reasons why commandos actually suck...they dont have a grenade slot) Ask a Logi if they prefer to have a side arm instead of a grenade slot.ASK THEM. Then tell me the grenade slot is meaningless. If you dont know this.If you think the grenade slot is THAT meaningless,i can tell ,you dont have the slightest idea of what playing as infantry is about. And there by you should not comment about balancing AV weaponry, since you cant understand us. You say Non tankers should not talk about tanks,but then you come and tell me a grenade slot is not important? please , refrain from posting about AV balance.You will just break it on your favor.... Im sorry,but that post of you,was one of the most ignorant posts i've EVER read in the dust forums...like EVER. I sacrifice my grenade slot and Void tells me:''your not affected by it at all.'' that was just....i mean WOW... Please, stop exaggerating on the importance of that slot. I would much rather have an extra high or low than either sidearms and grenade slots.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 301	Posted - 2013.09.23 13:35:00 - [7] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Crash Monster wrote: [quote=Monkey MAC]What a lot of tankers don't realise is that a tank is already strong, you complain so much at proto av, when even adv barely puts a dent in your tank! The amount of times 1 tank has steamrolled an entire team by him self because no-one happened to bring proto to the party. Yet we have to HTFU because we should have brought proto, because av only does its job at proto level! In never new f*s was a swear word! But you catch my drift! Sometimes you lose. If you can't get two or three people to coordinate against an enemy tank (whether proto or not)... then too bad. You want to be able to win every time with your assault rifle -- without having to change your fit. You can't. Hey, here's a thought, if a vehicle is wiping out your team repeatedly, consider grenades and AV fits. Seriously, I see tankers being told to squad up and accept blueberries into their ride -- but I don't see infantry accepting being told to work together. At least infantry working together doesn't involve some idiot being attached to you for the duration screwing up your expensive gear. Ooooh I love assumptions, did I mention ar? You say to me sometimes you loose, but half the point of this thread is tankers whining because they loose!! My god the double standard!! quote] Double standards, eh? Bullshit. If anything double standards applies to infantry in your little "Argument" about it. I mean, look at how the AA was change, how Swarm-Launchers were changed (Both in the past and present), how the Sniper Rifle was changed, how the Laser Rifles were changed, How LLAVs were changed, how the MD was changed,how the Nova Knife was changed, or how Heavy Machine Guns were changed for example, all because You. Got. Killed. By. Them. Like you're one to talk about assumptions. Quote: You say use grenades, but wait there overpowered are you condoning the use of av grenades on tanks? Yes we're condoning the use of AV Grenades for the purpose they were created for, we just believe they need tweaking along with the Swarm-Launcher and Forge Gun. I'm in favor of this idea. Not only would it promote diversity, it would actually give you a solid argument next time you bring up your beloved Paper Vs. Scissors Vs. Rock. Also, you admit they're overpowered? Quote:** Infantry who don't work as a team are universally shuned by the community, so please don't make assumptions and don't apply double standards! You're joking, right? That is what the majority of you do, not work as a team.... Well, unless you call mindlessly rushing around in a giant blob searching for the most kills teamwork. Hell, thats what the majority of you complaining actually do.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 301	Posted - 2013.09.23 13:36:00 - [8] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: God tankers are so bitchy its funny. Here's the thing yes a tank should be this massive asset on the field for the team, not for 1 guy. Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. This just leads to everyone running tanks because its the only viable thing. If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc, and I say slightly stronger due to the fact they cost so much. If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. The more complex and team based a tank is the more powerful it can be due to the fact it requires more people to be effective. So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. translation: dust tanks are meant to be ** and strong tanks will not exist. my translation : solo tanks are meant to be ** and tanks with a crew should be awesome Lets chop your dropsuits into three as well! You control the legs, one person does the equipment, and another does the guns! I mean it's fair right? You paid for that suit so that all these other guys could get free rides doing whatever they feel! So while you move the suit toward the combat zone guy 2 thinks your too slow so he drops your nano hives and grenades to "lighten the load" while the guy on the gun is swinging back and forth taking pot shots and using ammo without regard for supply. But that doesn't matter cause its now balanced with tanks! Congratulations! Your suit is now officially useless for general use! lol so by your recconing you would need 9 people to work your tank beacause there are 3 inside with 3 controlling each suit. Don't give me that rubbish. Your a merc first then a tank driver Of course, we can't make infantry use teamwork right? they have to be able to godmode solo whenever the hell they like, right? Why not even consider it? That is what you want to do to us, its only fair.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 302	Posted - 2013.09.23 14:08:00 - [9] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Rubs hands So first of you want to limit the majority of av to heavy? Why? Av weaponry already has drawbacks and you want to limit it further? As said earlier this game his all about tactics, so if the paper can't change to rock, what do we do? If av is limited to heavies tankers blow up the supply depots and they are free to roam around while heavies who are already disadvantaged enough get it hammered to them because they are feilding vehicle only weaponry, great! Why not? Besides, who said we should limit the majority of AV to heavies? You're grasping at straws here. Not only does it promote "teamwork" it also promote diversity. Quote: Double standards? AA was not, changed confirmed by dev LR and MD were rebuffed to account for over nerfing, why would we buff Something that kills us Lav's were ridiculous, however a lot of people specced to proto av to deal with them, so blame your lav driver mates for the amount of proto on the field! Rebuffed? The only thing Laser Rifles got was a new scope, it never got rebuffed. MDs I'll admit were rebuffed. Also, why are you ignoring my other points? Why would we buff something that kills us? to promote strategy, thinking, teamwork, and.... common sense, I know, I know, its shocking. All you did there was prove me right. Quote: As for the running round as a mindless blob, do you even teamwork? Team work in pubs is a little thin on the ground sometimes sure, but try FW or PC, watch these blobs work together, with a variety of suits, enjoy the intricacy of a close knit team! Or you know tank all day and complain you got culled by a few guys with proto! Do you even play the game? again, you're grasping at straws here. Of course in PC there is going to be teamwork. Thats a loaded point. Don't even bring up FW as a point, there are quite a few threads actually complaining about it and the lack of teamwork there.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 303	Posted - 2013.09.23 14:21:00 - [10] - Quote ABadMutha13 wrote: Love this post. Which post?

Shattered Mirage native warlords 309	Posted - 2013.09.23 17:39:00 - [11] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Mirage you are using your own argument to prove yourself wrong! You said everything nerfed was because it killed us, so why would stuff get buffed, you don't seem to understand balance otherwise you would not have made that point in the first place! The lasers sight was more of a boon than a buff true. But it also was only nerfed at the proto level. There is plenty of teamwork in FW you have to put in an effort to achieve it, its not some majical power, its thinking what will benifit my team more, overwatch while he hacks or having greedy hacking points for myself. I'm using your argument to prove yourself wrong. Monkey MAC wrote: You said everything nerfed was because it killed us, so why would stuff get buffed This came from you. I understand balance. I also understand that I'm biased and so, I shouldn't be making said balancing decisions. However, neither should you, who is clearly more biased than me.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 309	Posted - 2013.09.23 17:50:00 - [12] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Shattered Mirage wrote: Lets chop your dropsuits into three as well! You control the legs, one person does the equipment, and another does the guns! I mean it's fair right? You paid for that suit so that all these other guys could get free rides doing whatever they feel! So while you move the suit toward the combat zone guy 2 thinks your too slow so he drops your nano hives and grenades to "lighten the load" while the guy on the gun is swinging back and forth taking pot shots and using ammo without regard for supply. But that doesn't matter cause its now balanced with tanks! Congratulations! Your suit is now officially useless for general use! lol so by your recconing you would need 9 people to work your tank beacause there are 3 inside with 3 controlling each suit. Don't give me that rubbish. Your a merc first then a tank driver Of course, we can't make infantry use teamwork right? they have to be able to godmode solo whenever the hell they like, right? Why not even consider it? That is what you want to do to us, its only fair. so dieing 5-10 times in a single game is god mode. i would hate to think what normal mode is also infantry use far more teamwork than tankers do, how do you think we capture null cannons from the enemy, you know the pointy buildings that shoot missiles into the air at the mcc that only infantry can capture and actually win the fight. while you are off in your tank just mowing down anything that moves. Really? adding other post in this quote to make it seem as if I wrote it? Anyways... Quote: so dieing 5-10 times in a single game is god mode. Makes no sense. Although, I'm sure you meant "So killing 5-10 times in a single game is god mode." According to you infantry it is, after all, isn't that what you're complaining about? Quote: also infantry use far more teamwork than tankers do, how do you think we capture null cannons from the enemy, you know the pointy buildings that shoot missiles into the air at the mcc that only infantry can capture and actually win the fight. while you are off in your tank just mowing down anything that moves. LOL! I'm pretty damned sure I know how you idiots capture Null Cannons. The basis of your argument seems to be based on us " mowing down anything that moves." Which doesn't happen often. We haven't gone 30+ kills since Chromosome, unlike infantry which regularly go 40+ with only 5 deaths. We both know that there is no teamwork involved in this game; at least not with complete randoms, sure with corporations there are but, thats really only the competitive ones such as SVER True Blood.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 309	Posted - 2013.09.23 17:55:00 - [13] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: ke our yes it will make me happier. then we will really have something to have your tanks nerfed for Why do you want preplanning,....................and SP nerfed? corrected that for you. you seem to lack the necessary requirements for that suit We've said time and time again, we still manage to survive, flourish and even get infantry angry because even after so many consecutive tank nerfs, and so many parallel AV buffs, you all still find it incredibly difficult to kill us. So I don't know what you're trying to say by removing the word intelligence, but if anybody is lacking it, it's infantry. so from this post alone by my understanding your saying tanks and av are fine as they are because tanks survive,flourish and are incredibly difficult to kill. i give up. i have no idea what your entire thread is about anymore. its all nonsense. you change your point on almost every post Heh, everything you posted so far is nonsense. Like I said to Monkey earlier, you're either just trying to find an answer that you can use against us so you have some sort of reason to change vehicles or, you're torlling.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 309	Posted - 2013.09.23 17:58:00 - [14] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Shattered Mirage wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: God tankers are so bitchy its funny. Here's the thing yes a tank should be this massive asset on the field for the team, not for 1 guy. Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. This just leads to everyone running tanks because its the only viable thing. If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc, and I say slightly stronger due to the fact they cost so much. If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. The more complex and team based a tank is the more powerful it can be due to the fact it requires more people to be effective. So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. translation: dust tanks are meant to be ** and strong tanks will not exist. my translation : solo tanks are meant to be and tanks with a crew should be awesome Double standards again. Solo dropsuits should then be complete ** like us and dropsuit with a crew should be awesome. do tankers not realise they are in a suit, inside a tank. Does infantry not realize that we are in. [i]A. Tank? If you're going to reply, don't do a half-assed job of it.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 309	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:00:00 - [15] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Will it make you happier when we start spec'ing into the pilot suit to make our vehicles stronger? Or would that be OP? yes it will make me happier. then we will really have something to have your tanks nerfed for More proof that you're completely biased and therefore shouldn't have any say in any type of balancing whatsoever.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 309	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:17:00 - [16] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Shattered Mirage wrote: I'm using your argument to prove yourself wrong. Monkey MAC wrote: You said everything nerfed was because it killed us, so why would stuff get buffed This came from you. I understand balance. I also understand that I'm biased and so, I shouldn't be making said balancing decisions. However, neither should you, who is clearly more biased than me. Have you taken the time to read my actual opinion, tanks are fine, they don't need a nerf but they sure as hell don't need a buff! You said to me everything that has been nerfed, was nerfed because it killed infantry, this is what you said, so why would buff anything ever if that were the case? You attempted to use the fact that weaponry has been nerfed because of infantry bad attitude, I disproved that! Using my argument against me doesn't consist of telling me you are! You.... disproved that... no, no you did not. All you did was reply saying that the MD got rebuffed and the Laser Rifle got rebuffed (Which it did not). I've read your opinion and I disagree with you; it should be fairly obvious why. Quote: You said to me everything that has been nerfed, was nerfed because it killed infantry, this is what you said, so why would buff anything ever if that were the case? Exactly. The only real reason anything would get buffed is because CCP will either eventually gather enough data on it that they decide its UP or, the players who use said weapons complain about it enough for CCP to take notice. Also, you didn't disagree with this so, its true. Quote: You attempted to use the fact that weaponry has been nerfed because of infantry bad attitude, I disproved that! No, you did not disprove that. I did not "attempt" to use the fact, I did use it. Huh, would you look at that, even you agree that its a fact. Infantry's bad attitude has cause a large number of nerfs.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 309	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:18:00 - [17] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Amen brotha! It's like I've said in other threads; killing a tank shouldn't be the deciding factor with solo proto AVers. They seem to want to be able to kill the tank or it's unacceptable. Removing the tank from the fight should be the goal of proto AV abilities. When the tank is scared off and has to recoup it is a non-issue. A tanker shouldn't have to deal with either alive or dead. I want to enjoy a tank in a match. My tank should be able to stay alive if I plan ahead for my mods. Your only worry as infantry is that the tank is in the fight. If my tank is out of the fight repping and cooling down then we both win. I can continue to use the thing I trained in and enjoy the game. You get to not worry about my tank for awhile. The dev post on tank changes seem to be pointing to a greater contrast of the tank being able to be invulnerable temporarily and then be very vulnerable on cooldown. A proto AVer should have to work to destroy a tank and be smart, not sit on a roof and wait for the tank to just stroll by. A dedicated AVer should be able to observe the route a tank takes and go where the tank is going to be passing by in its vulnerable state. Easy. I see no reason for complaints by infantry players unless those players just want to have an easy kill with little effort. They can't accept a tank still being alive but sitting on the redline repping and out of combat. That just doesn't do it for them because their goal of a tank kill goes unfulfilled. Nevermind they have done their job of suppressing the tank and keeping it pushed back. On no! That doesn't add to their k/d ratio. I am a AV unit and I agree with this I can not stand AV'ers that complain that they can't solo a tank. when i engage a tank i do so expecting to push it back away from the area, if that tanker is going to keep coming then guess what? I WILL KEEP GUNNING FOR YOU until you leave i know better than to chase a tank on my own, but believe me i will be watching what direction you are heading and do my best to cut you off from advancing. in any other direction. [Off-topic] When the hell did Psygod join D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E.?
Shattered Mirage native warlords 311	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:22:00 - [18] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Shattered Mirage wrote: Makes no sense. Although, I'm sure you meant "So killing 5-10 times in a single game is god mode." According to you infantry it is, after all, isn't that what you're complaining about? LOL! I'm pretty damned sure I know how you idiots capture Null Cannons. The basis of your argument seems to be based on us " mowing down anything that moves." Which doesn't happen often. We haven't gone 30+ kills since Chromosome, unlike infantry which regularly go 40+ with only 5 deaths. We both know that there is no teamwork involved in this game; at least not with complete randoms, sure with corporations there are but, thats really only the competitive ones such as SVER True Blood. the quote bugged out and i couldn't fix it. none the less my argument there still stands. 5-10 kills with 5-10 deaths. thats about average. i would say thats far more balanced than 1 tank steamrolling everything it can and as soon as anyone looks at you that might have any sort of av you run and hide or as most of you do, you just recall the tank and get a shiney new one. also infantry do not often go 30+ kills. yes some do solo but not often and they take serious hits to the wallet to get so high. mostly its great squads or teams steamrolling the opposition which makes getting that 30 kills easy because they work as a team but thats another issue and nothing to do with tanks or av sure randoms like to solo, you in your tank like to solo. that makes you a random. people have suggested time and time again to make tanks require a crew which would require teamwork to use and then this would make balancing av across 3 av players to take that tank out balanced but tankers are having none of it and still want to solo. We don't steamroll, stop exaggerating. Yes, they might not get 30+ kills often but, its a fact that they do get 20-30 kills often per match without dieing once. I truly doubt they take serious hits to their wallet because of this; the most the might lose is ~150k ISK unless they're using proto suits in which case they should've known better to take it out if they couldn't afford it. Quote: as anyone looks at you that might have any sort of av you run and hide or as most of you do, you just recall the tank and get a shiney new one. Do you want us to sit there and let us kill you? No. Are you going to sit there and let us kill you? No. Only idiots call in another tank while Proto AV is out and therefore, deserve to lose said tank.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 311	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:32:00 - [19] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Im sorry mirage but you are beyond hope, you misconstrued points to suit your agenda. I will not convince you, neither will you convince me! I bid you good night, because I tire of this argument! Says the person who does it too; lets not pretend that you don't. Goodnight.
Shattered Mirage native warlords 313	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:49:00 - [20] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: you tankers in this thread are way beyond hope. there is no reasoning with the unreasonable i really hope ccp give you what you want. and then nerf the **** out off you when your op i await your tears Hmm... you seem to pretty much be copying Monkey. I have to wonder now, are any of your ideas actually yours?

Shattered Mirage native warlords 313	Posted - 2013.09.23 19:24:00 - [21] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Shattered Mirage wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: you tankers in this thread are way beyond hope. there is no reasoning with the unreasonable i really hope ccp give you what you want. and then nerf the **** out off you when your op i await your tears Hmm... you seem to pretty much be copying Monkey. I have to wonder now, are any of your ideas actually yours? we could say the same about you/Spkr4theDead/Void Echo and a host of others in this thread Touche. Well, lets end this argument for now. I've gotten bored of it.