DUST Search - To non-pilots making tank threads

Spkr4theDead wrote:

Toby Flenderson wrote:

Void Echo wrote:

Quote:

why should 1 man should get so much power because he put a bit of money towards it

notice in that question, you didn't say anything about the question being specific to tanks or anything, so your basically asking why should proto infantry have more power over militia? just because they spent more isk and SP? according to you, that's not balanced.

like I said, according to you, everything including infantry equipment should be on the same level of militia gear, even though it costs more isk and SP to use.

but look at that prototype is far superior to militia gear in every way & it costs more isk and SP to use it.

your point is invalid under this fact.

I love that you're implying that a prototype suit is as hard to kill as a well stocked tank. Prototype suits are killed all the time by random grenades that are thrown or getting unlucky and pinned by a blueberry that just happened to see them reloading. This doesn't happen to tanks. A prototype suit has maybe double the health of a regular blueberry while a tank has easily 10 times the health. Also, blueberries have to take out a specific class to hurt a tank. They are perfectly equipped to deal with pro to suits with their default classes. This counterargument is just hilarious. He's basically saying that 200,000 ISK worth of power is just unbalanced as 2m ISK worth of power.

Why are you complaining? You're not taking ~2000 worth of damage from a single grenade, or ~2500 worth of damage from a single volley / round, or 3000 from a Wiyrkomi breach (though some use it as anti infantry). You really just don't have anything to complain about. CCP is trying to attract and retain new players. I think it's entirely in their right to give new players as many things as possible to try to retain them. If you don't think that should be the case, then you could find something else to play. After all, the survivability of this game isn't on your head.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Toby Flenderson research lab The Superpowers 47	Posted - 2013.09.22 20:58:00 - [1] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: You don't tank. You don't have the experience we have. It's actually quite easy to destroy us, if you know how to do it, and considering the complaints on here about tanks, only a sad few actually know how to destroy us. If it takes a tanker to write out how to destroy us, you're doing it wrong now, you did it wrong before, and you'll probably continue to do it wrong until you reach that eureka moment, when you and 2 people beside you destroy a tank in 3 seconds. Until then, you'll vainly try to solo the best tankers in the game. I love how the entire post is you complaining that tanks are so underpowered and that no one who doesn't tank could understand but then you go and basically say that if you don't tank you don't know how easy it is to kill them. I don't tank but I'm allowed to have opinions on that game mechanic because tanks kill me all the time. You're simply ridiculous if you think that just because someone doesn't run the fit you have then they are not entitled to an opinion about it. I don't run Caldari Logi or mass drivers but I'm allowed to have an opinion on them because they affect my games directly, just like tanks. I don't need to ride in a tank to understand balancing tanks/AV because I have months experience battling with tanks. It doesn't matter what side of the fight you're on and you should know that considering you're making opinions about proto AV weapons. I respect your opinion about AV just as you should respect my opinion about tanking. People need to stop treating tanks as invincible vessels used to walk across the field murdering everyone. They're just another kind of "dropsuit" or fitting as far as I'm concerned and they have advantages and disadvantages just like infantry. The only real difference is that with big reward comes big risk and from what I've seen on the forums, people in tanks are slow to accept responsibility for this. Long story short, stop hiding behind the argument that only tankers can have an opinion about tanks and open your mind to 2-sided discussion like the rest of us. Otherwise it's just you trying to rally up a club of QQers that are all either ill-equipt to argue against AV or not able to come up with anything better than "you don't tank".
Toby Flenderson research lab The Superpowers 54	Posted - 2013.09.23 07:24:00 - [2] - Quote Xender17 wrote: For 1 week. Make infantry armor reps have cool down/duration. Remove equipment slots and make equipment useable in high/low slots. Increase PG/CPU requirement of weapons so that they HAVE to equip PG mods to be good... Make sidearms a requirement. Make racial variants cost 6x as much as basics. Remove proto everything, but weapons. See how they like it. Haha ok let's see... I'll happily take armor repair cool down/duration along with 6,000 armor. I won't need equipment with 6,000 armor and keep the slot empty just to spite you. I'll just use whatever the toxin equivalent is in a tank because that's what I run all the time so PG/CPU requirements are a joke. I like sidearms? Why is this even on the list of "see how they like it"? Racial variants of dropsuits are x8 so thanks for the x6. I run enhanced suits and with my 6,000 armor I don't need any proto modules. I'm struggling to see where you beat us on this but thanks for the 6,000 armor.
Toby Flenderson research lab The Superpowers 54	Posted - 2013.09.23 17:10:00 - [3] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Quote: why should 1 man should get so much power because he put a bit of money towards it notice in that question, you didn't say anything about the question being specific to tanks or anything, so your basically asking why should proto infantry have more power over militia? just because they spent more isk and SP? according to you, that's not balanced. like I said, according to you, everything including infantry equipment should be on the same level of militia gear, even though it costs more isk and SP to use. but look at that prototype is far superior to militia gear in every way & it costs more isk and SP to use it. your point is invalid under this fact. I love that you're implying that a prototype suit is as hard to kill as a well stocked tank. Prototype suits are killed all the time by random grenades that are thrown or getting unlucky and pinned by a blueberry that just happened to see them reloading. This doesn't happen to tanks. A prototype suit has maybe double the health of a regular blueberry while a tank has easily 10 times the health. Also, blueberries have to take out a specific class to hurt a tank. They are perfectly equipped to deal with pro to suits with their default classes. This counterargument is just hilarious. He's basically saying that 200,000 ISK worth of power is just unbalanced as 2m ISK worth of power.
Toby Flenderson research lab The Superpowers 54	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:26:00 - [4] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Toby Flenderson wrote: Void Echo wrote: Quote: why should 1 man should get so much power because he put a bit of money towards it notice in that question, you didn't say anything about the question being specific to tanks or anything, so your basically asking why should proto infantry have more power over militia? just because they spent more isk and SP? according to you, that's not balanced. like I said, according to you, everything including infantry equipment should be on the same level of militia gear, even though it costs more isk and SP to use. but look at that prototype is far superior to militia gear in every way & it costs more isk and SP to use it. your point is invalid under this fact. I love that you're implying that a prototype suit is as hard to kill as a well stocked tank. Prototype suits are killed all the time by random grenades that are thrown or getting unlucky and pinned by a blueberry that just happened to see them reloading. This doesn't happen to tanks. A prototype suit has maybe double the health of a regular blueberry while a tank has easily 10 times the health. Also, blueberries have to take out a specific class to hurt a tank. They are perfectly equipped to deal with pro to suits with their default classes. This counterargument is just hilarious. He's basically saying that 200,000 ISK worth of power is just unbalanced as 2m ISK worth of power. Why are you complaining? You're not taking ~2000 worth of damage from a single grenade, or ~2500 worth of damage from a single volley / round, or 3000 from a Wiyrkomi breach (though some use it as anti infantry). You really just don't have anything to complain about. CCP is trying to attract and retain new players. I think it's entirely in their right to give new players as many things as possible to try to retain them. If you don't think that should be the case, then you could find something else to play. After all, the survivability of this game isn't on your head. Haha I'm not complaining, I'm just arguing against your implication that dropsuits are as unblanced as tanks in the "ISK=Power" argument. If you really think that AV grenades are more of a threat to tanks as regular grenades are to infantry you are insane. Tanks can move faster than infantry and so getting close enough to throw an AV at a tank is difficult/dangerous. To hit infantry you just have to be within CQC range which is what a major portion of this game is based around. The relative chunk of health taken from each one is also not even comparable let alone tanks abilities to auto-rep while infantry are left vulnerable to the followed up primary shot. One grenade kills most infantry if you hit them with it and if it doesn't they are most likely killed by another grenade/weapon/person. Another thing you may want to consider is the number of players running AV grenades vs the number running any other kind of grenade used on infantry. I would put my money 1:10. What I don't understand is why tankers complain about damage per second to infantry who die within 2 seconds most of the time (if you want to play the "every shot hits and damage mods and blah blah blah" game). Keep complaining about your 3000 swarm launchers when only 1-2 people run it in a match while most of the other team has some sort of AR focused on infantry. It takes a specialized person to kill you and you're virtually invincible to every other player on the enemy team and you're still complaining that you're dying. There is nothing more demoralizing to a new player than spawning in and hiding from a tank the whole game. At least they have a chance to kill a prototype suit with their MLT AR but no tank is going down to a MLT SL. Unless new players invest the first 2m into AV then they have nothing to defend themselves with against tanks. Infantry using prototype equipment is hard to kill and sucks to fight if you run starter fits but a tank is much worse. I'm surprised you didn't stop typing during that last bit of your response and realize what you were saying. "Stop complaining about tanks because every new player should be able to jump in one and dominate for this game to be successful". TL;DR: You're ridiculous to complain to infantry about how fast grenades/weapons kill in this game and implying that CCP give powerful tanks to new players to retain them is possibly the stupidest suggestion I've ever heard in these forums.
Toby Flenderson research lab The Superpowers 54	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:43:00 - [5] - Quote Xender17 wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: This thread just keeps getting better and better! Xender17 wrote: For 1 week. Make infantry armor reps have cool down/duration. Remove equipment slots and make equipment useable in high/low slots. Increase PG/CPU requirement of weapons so that they HAVE to equip PG mods to be good... Make sidearms a requirement. Make racial variants cost 6x as much as basics. Remove proto everything, but weapons. See how they like it. So long as that week all vehicles are reduced to <1500 HP (including maxed out plates and extenders), with no damage reduction and full damage from small arms fire. The grass is always greener. The argument that tank HP is an advantage doesn't mean much. Especially when there are weapons that make the HP mean nothing but a scaled up version of infantry HP with a scaled up version of infantry weapons. I disagree with the weapons bit. Scaled up versions of infantry weapons could be used against infantry but it seems that most people are complaining about the AV grenades and SL. There is obviously a scale to balance the extended HP with higher damage weapons but another thing to consider is that tanks use armor repair and damage reduction. I can sit there and toss 3 proto packed AV grenades at a tank and watch it repair itself in between tosses so that my net damage is 0 by the time I get to lock on with a SL. Infantry cannot do this. So it's not just scaled numbers, there are different mechanics involved.