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ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 313	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:17:00 - [1] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So what because some people don't drive tanks we should have no say in their development, despite the fact its a part of the game that affects everyone? While I agree the view of some non tankers is a bit irrational, you cant expect to sit by and allow you to overpower tanks, becausethat iis the view of some tankers. Its about a little give and take!! Some? A bit irrational? A grenade that does ~2000 damage to armor isn't enough! A tracking AV weapon that does > 2000 damage per volley isn't enough! It's not enough to merely suppress a tank and make it go away! How is that just a bit irrational? when a rail turret kills all with 1 shot, when a blaster turret kills a player in 1-2 hits. yet you in your tank can and do often survive 4 or 5 hits before blowing. its only when people are tired of your stomping that they turn to av and its never a single av player its always more. and you say we have no right to say what happens with tanks.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 313	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:25:00 - [2] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So what because some people don't drive tanks we should have no say in their development, despite the fact its a part of the game that affects everyone? While I agree the view of some non tankers is a bit irrational, you cant expect to sit by and allow you to overpower tanks, becausethat iis the view of some tankers. Its about a little give and take!! Some? A bit irrational? A grenade that does ~2000 damage to armor isn't enough! A tracking AV weapon that does > 2000 damage per volley isn't enough! It's not enough to merely suppress a tank and make it go away! How is that just a bit irrational? when a rail turret kills all with 1 shot, when a blaster turret kills a player in 1-2 hits. yet you in your tank can and do often survive 4 or 5 hits before blowing. its only when people are tired of your stomping that they turn to av and its never a single av player its always more. and you say we have no right to say what happens with tanks. What good is a tank if it doesn't do a lot of damage? You have a hull with no better than an Exile rifle. Is that what you want? They're called tanks for a reason. They take a lot of damage, and they have a really big gun. Shall we talk about the disparity between large railgun turrets and forge guns? You decide and they also have a crew, a driver who drives the vehicle, a gunner who controls the gun, and a commander who directs both crew members
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 313	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:35:00 - [3] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: This isn't World of Tanks, and from what I've gathered from other people telling me about the game, it's still the one player controlling the whole tank, not a couple people operating it cooperatively. So any point you were trying to make is still moot, because, well, it's a game. if thats the case then your points are moot also. why would this being a game make your points valid and everyone elses moot
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 313	Posted - 2013.09.22 18:08:00 - [4] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: You think it should destroy a tank with one hit. At least, that's what you sound like. and you think a tank should kill all and survive every game. thats what you sound like
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 314	Posted - 2013.09.22 18:23:00 - [5] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: You think it should destroy a tank with one hit. At least, that's what you sound like. and you think a tank should kill all and survive every game. thats what you sound like =/= Is it wrong saying it should require teamwork to take down a tank? Or have another tank available that could take advantage of a weakness? Yeah, I laugh when I see enforcers on the field, but when I see them using a turret they get their bonus too, I worry a bit. Falchion with XT-201 accelerated? I'll keep it back with a railgun. Vayu with scattered ion cannon? Same thing, railgun. Christ, you put up a petition to have tanks removed! You're as biased as they get. you couldn't be more wrong. i want tanks. just not the solo god like killing machines that you want. and why should it take a team to take out a tank that can solo. that is not balance. thats as one sided as it gets. if it took 3 people to operate the tank and 3 people to take it out then thats an acceptable balance.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 317	Posted - 2013.09.22 20:06:00 - [6] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: I have a question, if one person with an AR can simply shoot a tank to destroy it... What's the purpose of even having a tank? According to you "this is acceptable balance". You keep complaining to make tanks weaker , yet you never once ever explained how a tank should be operated? Cowering from 300+ meters away because encountering any AV means instant destruction?(this example is made using your models not the current ingame settings) If tanks were weakened to the point that a single AV player could blow it up before it gets close enough to engage... What's the purpose of a tank? It has to be able to take a beating of some kind as it approaches because it can't hide anywhere and everywhere like infantry can. Tanks cannot hide period! It's literally impossible to loose track of a tank because they can be seen from the areal map. Basically tanks exchange all the defensive benefits that infantry have for a bit of armor and firepower. So if a tank can't have that what is it supposed to do? where did i mention that. i made no mention in any of my posts that a single person should be able to take out a tank let alone with an AR. i also have never made any points to make tanks weaker. i also made no mention that tanks should be one shot by av.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 318	Posted - 2013.09.22 20:41:00 - [7] - Quote Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: i made no mention in any of my posts that a single person should be able to take out a tank let alone with an AR. i also have never made any points to make tanks weaker. i also made no mention that tanks should be one shot by av. dead wrong, your posts on making tanks require a driver and separate gunner make tanks extremely weak. you cannot way that youv never said anything on making us weak when you say that we should require a random bluetard to operate our personal investments and effectively kill tanking altogether. no. you assume that. that was a basic idea with no numbers. it also stated increasing ehp which is a buff and requiring 3 crew which imo is also a buff as you can see more and kill more. the mechanics behind the idea were flawed some but the idea was to emphasise the need for crew in order to justify its combat effectiveness. also that has nothing to do with this post at least i am putting a little more thought into the problem even if it is drastic and completely different that what everyone is used to. ideas evolve into something that works or they die through constructive criticism. in a tankers eyes if its not a buff to tanks and a nerf to av then its bad for tanking. also when something is in an idea stage then nothing that is currently in use has any relevance on it.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 318	Posted - 2013.09.22 20:59:00 - [8] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: I have a question, if one person with an AR can simply shoot a tank to destroy it... What's the purpose of even having a tank? According to you "this is acceptable balance". You keep complaining to make tanks weaker , yet you never once ever explained how a tank should be operated? Cowering from 300+ meters away because encountering any AV means instant destruction?(this example is made using your models not the current ingame settings) If tanks were weakened to the point that a single AV player could blow it up before it gets close enough to engage... What's the purpose of a tank? It has to be able to take a beating of some kind as it approaches because it can't hide anywhere and everywhere like infantry can. Tanks cannot hide period! It's literally impossible to loose track of a tank because they can be seen from the areal map. Basically tanks exchange all the defensive benefits that infantry have for a bit of armor and firepower. So if a tank can't have that what is it supposed to do? where did i mention that. i made no mention in any of my posts that a single person should be able to take out a tank let alone with an AR. i also have never made any points to make tanks weaker. i also made no mention that tanks should be one shot by av. That first "AR" was my spell check messing up"AV". You stated in the post I quoted earlier that a tank shouldn't need a team to take it down (aka 2 or more players clearly indicating a solo job) You also never answered how tanks should operate. Instead you tried to skip the answer by making accusations. Many others may be easily distracted but I'm asking for explanations. you missed the point of the quote. the point i was making was if a tank can solo and it takes more players to take them out then that is not balanced. 3 av taking on 1 tank with a full crew would be balanced but tankers wont allow crew in their vehicles or allow balance to compensate for not having crew.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 319	Posted - 2013.09.22 21:13:00 - [9] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Delta 749 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qHL7jET8Gc Since someone mentioned posting video of people actually dying Im trying to limit it to test videos for now but theres a deluge of stuff from syria as Im sure you understand Inb4 "herp derp thats not an rpg" You are right, its a step up and more akin to what the game is actually giving us Hey look, we arent even 4000 years in the future and already blowing up tanks like no tommorow, theres nothing even left of this thing and it can be used while sitting behind a cozy wall. I think ill grab one of those for my equipment slot, thx. We're uh.................................................................................................................. At least 20,000 years into the future from what I've been told by EVE players. he is talking about today not 20k years into the future
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 319	Posted - 2013.09.22 21:18:00 - [10] - Quote if infantry are not allow to comment on how tanks should be then what gives a tanker the right to tell us how av should be

ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 321	Posted - 2013.09.22 21:23:00 - [11] - Quote Void Echo wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: God tankers are so bitchy its funny. Here's the thing yes a tank should be this massive asset on the field for the team, not for 1 guy. Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. This just leads to everyone running tanks because its the only viable thing. If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc, and I say slightly stronger due to the fact they cost so much. If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. The more complex and team based a tank is the more powerful it can be due to the fact it requires more people to be effective. So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. translation: dust tanks are meant to be ** and strong tanks will not exist. my translation : solo tanks are meant to be ** and tanks with a crew should be awesome
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 321	Posted - 2013.09.22 21:29:00 - [12] - Quote Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: God tankers are so bitchy its funny. Here's the thing yes a tank should be this massive asset on the field for the team, not for 1 guy. Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. This just leads to everyone running tanks because its the only viable thing. If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc, and I say slightly stronger due to the fact they cost so much. If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. The more complex and team based a tank is the more powerful it can be due to the fact it requires more people to be effective. So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. translation: dust tanks are meant to be ** and strong tanks will not exist. my translation : solo tanks are meant to be ** and tanks with a crew should be awesome lol, no wow how can i argue with such a well written argument. i bow to your obvious superior intelect
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 329	Posted - 2013.09.23 06:29:00 - [13] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: And still no one gives me answer How powerful should a tank operated by 1 man be? powerful enough to do considerable damage & be able to survive a single clash with AV. but if the driver is stupid, you can kill him. that an acceptable answer for you? or do you prefer an answer that sides with your argument and not with balance. so exactly how they are now?
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 331	Posted - 2013.09.23 13:22:00 - [14] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: God tankers are so bitchy its funny. Here's the thing yes a tank should be this massive asset on the field for the team, not for 1 guy. Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. This just leads to everyone running tanks because its the only viable thing. If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc, and I say slightly stronger due to the fact they cost so much. If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. The more complex and team based a tank is the more powerful it can be due to the fact it requires more people to be effective. So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. translation: dust tanks are meant to be ** and strong tanks will not exist. my translation : solo tanks are meant to be ** and tanks with a crew should be awesome Lets chop your dropsuits into three as well! You control the legs, one person does the equipment, and another does the guns! I mean it's fair right? You paid for that suit so that all these other guys could get free rides doing whatever they feel! So while you move the suit toward the combat zone guy 2 thinks your too slow so he drops your nano hives and grenades to "lighten the load" while the guy on the gun is swinging back and forth taking pot shots and using ammo without regard for supply. But that doesn't matter cause its now balanced with tanks! Congratulations! Your suit is now officially useless for general use! lol so by your recconing you would need 9 people to work your tank beacause there are 3 inside with 3 controlling each suit. Don't give me that rubbish. Your a merc first then a tank driver
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 331	Posted - 2013.09.23 16:35:00 - [15] - Quote Shattered Mirage wrote: translation: dust tanks are meant to be ** and strong tanks will not exist. my translation : solo tanks are meant to be ** and tanks with a crew should be awesome [/quote] Lets chop your dropsuits into three as well! You control the legs, one person does the equipment, and another does the guns! I mean it's fair right? You paid for that suit so that all these other guys could get free rides doing whatever they feel! So while you move the suit toward the combat zone guy 2 thinks your too slow so he drops your nano hives and grenades to "lighten the load" while the guy on the gun is swinging back and forth taking pot shots and using ammo without regard for supply. But that doesn't matter cause its now balanced with tanks! Congratulations! Your suit is now officially useless for general use![/quote] lol so by your recconing you would need 9 people to work your tank beacause there are 3 inside with 3 controlling each suit. Don't give me that rubbish. Your a merc first then a tank driver[/quote] Of course, we can't make infantry use teamwork right? they have to be able to godmode solo whenever the hell they like, right? Why not even consider it? That is what you want to do to us, its only fair.[/quote] so dieing 5-10 times in a single game is god mode. i would hate to think what normal mode is also infantry use far more teamwork than tankers do, how do you think we capture null cannons from the enemy, you know the pointy buildings that shoot missiles into the air at the mcc that only infantry can capture and actually win the fight. while you are off in your tank just mowing down anything that moves.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 332	Posted - 2013.09.23 16:40:00 - [16] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: And still no one gives me answer How powerful should a tank operated by 1 man be? powerful enough to do considerable damage & be able to survive a single clash with AV. but if the driver is stupid, you can kill him. that an acceptable answer for you? or do you prefer an answer that sides with your argument and not with balance. so exactly how they are now? Too easy to solo if you know what you're doing. too easy for a tank to solo if you know what your doing
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 332	Posted - 2013.09.23 16:41:00 - [17] - Quote Shattered Mirage wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: God tankers are so bitchy its funny. Here's the thing yes a tank should be this massive asset on the field for the team, not for 1 guy. Tankers want their cake and to eat it too. They want to be this massive influence on the field SOLO. One guy should not be able to wipe out everyone around him uncontested just because he spent more isk than the next guy. This just leads to everyone running tanks because its the only viable thing. If you want to run a tank solo it has to be only slightly stronger than a solo merc, and I say slightly stronger due to the fact they cost so much. If you want a true tank, a killing machine on the level of the M1 abrams you are going to have to multicrew your tank. This means driver only drives, gunner only shoots, and support gunners only run support guns. The more complex and team based a tank is the more powerful it can be due to the fact it requires more people to be effective. So by that meaning if you want to run a solo tank expect it to be paper thin, if you want a strong tank expect to have to run a crew of people. This is balance and this is fair. translation: dust tanks are meant to be ** and strong tanks will not exist. my translation : solo tanks are meant to be and tanks with a crew should be awesome Double standards again. Solo dropsuits should then be complete ** like us and dropsuit with a crew should be awesome. do tankers not realise they are in a suit, inside a tank.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 332	Posted - 2013.09.23 17:04:00 - [18] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Will it make you happier when we start spec'ing into the pilot suit to make our vehicles stronger? Or would that be OP? yes it will make me happier. then we will really have something to have your tanks nerfed for
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 332	Posted - 2013.09.23 17:11:00 - [19] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Will it make you happier when we start spec'ing into the pilot suit to make our vehicles stronger? Or would that be OP? yes it will make me happier. then we will really have something to have your tanks nerfed for Why do you want preplanning,....................and SP nerfed? corrected that for you. you seem to lack the necessary requirements for that suit
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 334	Posted - 2013.09.23 17:29:00 - [20] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Will it make you happier when we start spec'ing into the pilot suit to make our vehicles stronger? Or would that be OP? yes it will make me happier. then we will really have something to have your tanks nerfed for Why do you want preplanning,....................and SP nerfed? corrected that for you. you seem to lack the necessary requirements for that suit We've said time and time again, we still manage to survive, flourish and even get infantry angry because even after so many consecutive tank nerfs, and so many parallel AV buffs, you all still find it incredibly difficult to kill us. So I don't know what you're trying to say by removing the word intelligence, but if anybody is lacking it, it's infantry. so from this post alone by my understanding your saying tanks and av are fine as they are because tanks survive,flourish and are incredibly difficult to kill. i give up. i have no idea what your entire thread is about anymore. its all nonsense. you change your point on almost every post

ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 334	Posted - 2013.09.23 17:30:00 - [21] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Toby Flenderson wrote: Void Echo wrote: Quote: why should 1 man should get so much power because he put a bit of money towards it notice in that question, you didn't say anything about the question being specific to tanks or anything, so your basically asking why should proto infantry have more power over militia? just because they spent more isk and SP? according to you, that's not balanced. like I said, according to you, everything including infantry equipment should be on the same level of militia gear, even though it costs more isk and SP to use. but look at that prototype is far superior to militia gear in every way & it costs more isk and SP to use it. your point is invalid under this fact. I love that you're implying that a prototype suit is as hard to kill as a well stocked tank. Prototype suits are killed all the time by random grenades that are thrown or getting unlucky and pinned by a blueberry that just happened to see them reloading. This doesn't happen to tanks. A prototype suit has maybe double the health of a regular blueberry while a tank has easily 10 times the health. Also, blueberries have to take out a specific class to hurt a tank. They are perfectly equipped to deal with pro to suits with their default classes. This counterargument is just hilarious. He's basically saying that 200,000 ISK worth of power is just unbalanced as 2m ISK worth of power. Why are you complaining? You're not taking ~2000 worth of damage from a single grenade, or ~2500 worth of damage from a single volley / round, or 3000 from a Wiyrkomi breach (though some use it as anti infantry). You really just don't have anything to complain about. CCP is trying to attract and retain new players. I think it's entirely in their right to give new players as many things as possible to try to retain them. If you don't think that should be the case, then you could find something else to play. After all, the survivability of this game isn't on your head. Is he seriously trying to compare a heavily armoured vehicle to an infantry man? yes think he has a screw loose somewhere
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 340	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:09:00 - [22] - Quote Shattered Mirage wrote: Makes no sense. Although, I'm sure you meant "So killing 5-10 times in a single game is god mode." According to you infantry it is, after all, isn't that what you're complaining about? LOL! I'm pretty damned sure I know how you idiots capture Null Cannons. The basis of your argument seems to be based on us " mowing down anything that moves." Which doesn't happen often. We haven't gone 30+ kills since Chromosome, unlike infantry which regularly go 40+ with only 5 deaths. We both know that there is no teamwork involved in this game; at least not with complete randoms, sure with corporations there are but, thats really only the competitive ones such as SVER True Blood. the quote bugged out and i couldn't fix it. none the less my argument there still stands. 5-10 kills with 5-10 deaths. thats about average. i would say thats far more balanced than 1 tank steamrolling everything it can and as soon as anyone looks at you that might have any sort of av you run and hide or as most of you do, you just recall the tank and get a shiney new one. also infantry do not often go 30+ kills. yes some do solo but not often and they take serious hits to the wallet to get so high. mostly its great squads or teams steamrolling the opposition which makes getting that 30 kills easy because they work as a team but thats another issue and nothing to do with tanks or av sure randoms like to solo, you in your tank like to solo. that makes you a random. people have suggested time and time again to make tanks require a crew which would require teamwork to use and then this would make balancing av across 3 av players to take that tank out balanced but tankers are having none of it and still want to solo.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 340	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:41:00 - [23] - Quote you tankers in this thread are way beyond hope. there is no reasoning with the unreasonable i really hope ccp give you what you want. and then nerf the **** out off you when your op i await your tears
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 340	Posted - 2013.09.23 18:54:00 - [24] - Quote Shattered Mirage wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: you tankers in this thread are way beyond hope. there is no reasoning with the unreasonable i really hope ccp give you what you want. and then nerf the **** out off you when your op i await your tears Hmm... you seem to pretty much be copying Monkey. I have to wonder now, are any of your ideas actually yours? we could say the same about you/Spkr4theDead/Void Echo and a host of others in this thread