What do all those EVE players say, dont fly what you cant afford to lose right?
Besides with the ceiling as high as it is you can fly up out of range easily and hide your shiny toy in the sky

I swear to god everyone that pilots a vehicle in this game is near constantly calling for infantry to rendered useless against them
Anti vehicle stuff exists, deal with it, and you dont see real world pilots going "Waaaah, RPGS designed in the 70s are still a threat to us, tell the enemy commander he needs to nerf his soldiers weapons so we cant be shot down"

Not constructive in any way and useless^^^^^^^^^^

Anyways

The cost of the DS were supposed to have been cut in half, still not enough of a difference to make a profit.

CCP address this before the extinction of the DS. Just lower the price of DS and or mods.

While I definitely feel for my fellow pilots, this increase in range thing is going to be a massive blessing to us, and the game as a whole.

So long as forge guns have their optimal range tweaked back just a little, so falloff kicks in a little sooner, we can actually use distance more effectively against them, without completely nulifying their usefulness. I feel like that will create a better dynamic between AV on the ground and pilots in the sky, and will encourage forge gunners to try and get the jump on lower flying ships, instead of just taking a shot no matter where they are.

As to people saying that they are too weak, I just have to say you're doing it wrong. A dropships defense is it's mobility, if you're getting shot down a lot it's because you're ALLOWING yourself to be shot. In real life helicopters stay alive not by being invulnerable to harm but simply by getting out of harms way. DUST works the same way.

Honestly this may not be true to life, but unless pc maps are so big that dropships become more viable, I would have no problem if the base hp of specialized dropships was raised significantly if IF the price increased. Leave the base versions cheap, but make the advanced ones either super fast, or super tanky. I mean like enough to take 5 hits from an installation or 3 hits from a double modded proto forge. This is just me, so feel free to tell me to go biomass myself, but I think considering they can transport 5 guys...they should cost more and be able to stand the heat. I dunno about balance cause this is my 1st fps since like halo 3, but that's my 0.02 isk

What should they do, be flying out of range the entire match?

What do all those EVE players say, dont fly what you cant afford to lose right?
Besides with the ceiling as high as it is you can fly up out of range easily and hide your shiny toy in the sky

I swear to god everyone that pilots a vehicle in this game is near constantly calling for infantry to rendered useless against them
Anti vehicle stuff exists, deal with it, and you dont see real world pilots going "Waaaah, RPGS designed in the 70s are still a threat to us, tell the enemy commander he needs to nerf his soldiers weapons so we cant be shot down"

There's a concept called "Window of vulnerability." This is how long you allow yourself to be exposed to effective enemy fire. You don't have to stay away the ENTIRE match, but you do want to minimize the amount of time the enemy can try to kill you. A good dropship pilot will only be exposed for seconds at a time, meaning only a GOOD AV player will have time to spot, aim, then fire on them.

This is a skillset that you won't find on your skill tree. Master it an you'll find that dropships are actually pretty tough to shoot down if they are in the hands of a good pilot. This is also the reason why you occasionally hear about dropships being TOO hard to kill.

Serimos, while I agree that they cost too much I (and other dropship pilots I know) have found a few fits that allow them to put out quite a bit of damage. Right now I'm testing out a build using an Incubus, three prototype damage mods and an afterburner. It may be light on defense but it packs a punch. The only problem I have with it is that the Gallente dropships crosshairs are crazy hard to hold on target so my accuracy is terrible using anything but a blaster. If you want to talk shop some send me a mail in game and I'll gladly chat. I'm always happy to talk to another pilot.

Thank you for being the first one to start a discussion here. That's the main issue i have been really trying to grasp, the fact they said they cut the prices in half, but in reality (once you start to upgrade the sheilds, boosters, overdrive injectors, and turrets) they start adding up to about what they used to cost anyways. 1 Assault dropship for me is 840k, and it still has all Small turret slots, so the front cannon still does hardly anything, even with the decent AT-1 turrets.

im paying 1.4mill isk for 1 assault dropship and 950k isk for 1 logi dropship. so price cut in half is a load of ****

im paying 1.4mill isk for 1 assault dropship and 950k isk for 1 logi dropship. so price cut in half is a load of ****

I'm not asking for a huge nerf that would dismantle things for others, it's just that it is literally impossible to earn money as a DS pilot, while everyone else can still make a reasonable profit. There needs to be incintives for being a "pilot", especially a logistics one. And the fact there isn't and still has not been is extremely discouraging, especially with a company like CCP that boasts its large-scale warfare. What's even more discouraging is i am sure you yourself are not even a dropship pilot. I fly very well, and rarely loose any dropships in matches, but even though i am good and can support my team and myself, i still earn no money. This, is the problem.

Also, kind of pointing out the obvious here; But EVE and Dust (Gameplay wise) Are two COMPLETELY different things. Especially as far as the economy is concerned.

I think this is the right place for it Caotic, we're not really giving specific feedback so much as just discussing the issue. Goodnight by the way...

What do all those EVE players say, dont fly what you cant afford to lose right?
Besides with the ceiling as high as it is you can fly up out of range easily and hide your shiny toy in the sky

I swear to god everyone that pilots a vehicle in this game is near constantly calling for infantry to rendered useless against them
Anti vehicle stuff exists, deal with it, and you dont see real world pilots going "Waaaah, RPGS designed in the 70s are still a threat to us, tell the enemy commander he needs to nerf his soldiers weapons so we cant be shot down"

"Window of vulnerability." This is how long you allow yourself to be exposed to effective enemy fire. You don't have to stay away the ENTIRE match, but you do want to minimize the amount of time the enemy can try to kill you. A good dropship pilot will only be exposed for seconds at a time

^ DAU/2 Assault Forge Gun, clip size 4 shots, with FG Operation skill level 5 it charges shots in under 2 seconds, and with a complex damage modifier and level 3-4 proficiency you're looking at something like 1600 damage per shot. That's 6400 damage in less than 8 seconds, less if you miss one of those shots, but if you run FG full time you have to learn how to lead shots in order to hit infantry and Dropships are a much bigger target than infantry, meaning practice in leading shots nets you all 4 hits.

This is why I argue that Dropships need a buff.

Dropship threads are almost always the most civil and constructive threads on these forums

Either dropships need a buff or those Assault FG's need a rate of fire nerf, but I'm sure if they nerf the Assault Forge Gun's rate of fire there will be complaints everywhere as to why they can't **** vehicles like they used to. Being a threat is acceptable, but if you're a good pilot who does everything possible to avoid being hit, and still get taken out in a few seconds because of the ridiculous fire rate those things can have, there's not much else you can do. And like everyone has stated here, each loss of a Dropship (as long as it's a good pilot who has good vehicle modules in their High/Low slots) is about 1 mil, and there is simply no room for profit of any-kind with this unbalance in both infantry/vehicle dmg capabilities, and the economy for how much DS's cost compared to the FG's that take them out so easy. They also give too much incentive for killing people, while not giving any for doing anything else BUT kill others. This creates an unattractive push from being a pilot, since no real gain can be earned from doing so. But as many pilots in here have stated, we do it because it supports the team, regardless of points or money. (But there needs to be changes to this A.S.A.P)

If the Assault FG took down HAVs as quickly and easily as they did Dropships, I'd have to agree on the RoF thing. But when you go up against a skilled tanker in a well-fitted HAV and decent infantry support, the RoF on the AFG only helps provide area denial and it's reasonably difficult to take them down, not to mention doing it alone. It's usually the prototype AV grenades + Nanohives, or general AV squads including AFG that are the bane of tankers. Considering the costs versus (lack of) rewards of skilling into and piloting dropships, I think they should have similar survivability to HAVs. In terms of what amount of raw damage they can eat.

Just curious, but would DS pilots object to paying more ISK on Dropships if they were as tough as tanks?

Learn to fly better.

Learn to fly better.

Forge gun= night night shield tanker

Swarm = night night armor tanker


Thought that was well known

actually forge is for both shield and armor.

actually forge is for both shield and armor.

And is way too effective overall. High damage to both shields and armour, absolutely zero warning to the target, minuscule travel time compared to other forms of AV, and a huge range, oh and it can be used as an anti infantry weapon too.

Learn to fly better.

Learn to fly better.

Learn to fly better.

wow really? this is who we have representing us? what a sad time for Dusr514
didnt take long for the head inflation did it. All the good feedback in this thread look who blows it.
Black Jackal its a shame you had to pull out.

wow really? this is who we have representing us? what a sad time for Dusr514
didnt take long for the head inflation did it. All the good feedback in this thread look who blows it.
Black Jackal its a shame you had to pull out.

I'm not asking for a huge nerf that would dismantle things for others, it's just that it is literally impossible to earn money as a DS pilot, while everyone else can still make a reasonable profit. There needs to be incintives for being a "pilot", especially a logistics one. And the fact there isn't and still has not been is extremely discouraging, especially with a company like CCP that boasts its large-scale warfare. What's even more discouraging is i am sure you yourself are not even a dropship pilot. I fly very well, and rarely loose any dropships in matches, but even though i am good and can support my team and myself, i still earn no money. This, is the problem.

Also, kind of pointing out the obvious here; But EVE and Dust (Gameplay wise) Are two COMPLETELY different things. Especially as far as the economy is concerned.

Dude..... its a dropship. It drops people off. Use it to do what it was meant to. Just because you cant go all crazy and get scores like 20 and 0 in it doesn't mean its broken, it means that theres another vehicle for another time that will fulfill that role. Heavy assault ships will be a thing eventually, but until then you'll have to get used to your flying LAV dying.

He's doing the same thing regarding the HAV PG nerfs... something is up with this guy. For the record, not enough warpoints for dropship pilots means no isk rewards.. flying better solves nothing.

What do all those EVE players say, dont fly what you cant afford to lose right?
Besides with the ceiling as high as it is you can fly up out of range easily and hide your shiny toy in the sky

I swear to god everyone that pilots a vehicle in this game is near constantly calling for infantry to rendered useless against them
Anti vehicle stuff exists, deal with it, and you dont see real world pilots going "Waaaah, RPGS designed in the 70s are still a threat to us, tell the enemy commander he needs to nerf his soldiers weapons so we cant be shot down"

Dude..... its a dropship. It drops people off. Use it to do what it was meant to. Just because you cant go all crazy and get scores like 20 and 0 in it doesn't mean its broken, it means that theres another vehicle for another time that will fulfill that role. Heavy assault ships will be a thing eventually, but until then you'll have to get used to your flying LAV dying.

Dude..... its a dropship. It drops people off. Use it to do what it was meant to. Just because you cant go all crazy and get scores like 20 and 0 in it doesn't mean its broken, it means that theres another vehicle for another time that will fulfill that role. Heavy assault ships will be a thing eventually, but until then you'll have to get used to your flying LAV dying.

Kind of a cavalier response from someone who desired to be and was delegated to be a player's representative.

Well it's good to know that there are many corp leaders like you who support DS pilots enough to hire them and supply them money, my corporation does the same thing for me when we are in faction warfare, and eventually planetary conquest, but when even corp leaders recognize the important role that DS pilots have, you would expect that CCP do the same exact thing and reflect an acceptance of DS pilots as vital to the battle, and good ones worthy of monetary gain while playing the game, but pilots have been arguably the most ignored and abused out of any role or class in Dust, every single veteran pilot knows that this is true, and we all have statistics and experiences that back this up. We deserve to be recognized for the important role we play.

I had no idea this "Iron Sabre" guy was a player's rep, It's a shame to see that people can get promoted to such a rank, yet when those same people come across a vast and emminse discussion over technical issues in how the gameplay is lacking, and how it can be better improved, they post a 4 word sentence that they somehow think dismisses everything we have been saying on here. Some of the player-base on here seems to be a little... aggressive towards reasonable suggestions for change.

Couldnt you just donate to the pilot's corp and they pay him? Or he can put an alt in you corp and you pay the alt, that a little more work though.

All of CPM are ground guys. if you want any balance toward vehicles then your going to have to be loud and in CCP face about and have all the vehicle guys behind you the small number of us. vehicle testing need a brick ton more testing before uprising and not much else where why do you think that was for... CCP didn't really look at and just throw changes at it just like they are now. the TTK chart thing has to be the funniest part of it all, it just goes to show you they don't test vehicles in any way.

Very skilled and experienced pilot here:

In my opinion the biggest problem is that a completely decked out dropship(assualt logistics or standard) with all the modules and skills seems to be balanced ONLY when flown against militia/standard AV. Against AV at this level you will be denied your effectiveness around them yet still have an opportunity to do your job(troop transport, gunship, scout) for a few seconds before having to retreat. However, against proto AV you immediately have to retreat or your ship quickly becomes a burning wreck. Dropships NEED a big buff to shields/armor.

Very skilled and experienced pilot here:

In my opinion the biggest problem is that a completely decked out dropship(assualt logistics or standard) with all the modules and skills seems to be balanced ONLY when flown against militia/standard AV. Against AV at this level you will be denied your effectiveness around them yet still have an opportunity to do your job(troop transport, gunship, scout) for a few seconds before having to retreat. However, against proto AV you immediately have to retreat or your ship quickly becomes a burning wreck. Dropships NEED a big buff to shields/armor.

This is because the skills investment and modules effectiveness scales up far better than vehicles.

Compare militia AV to militia ships (lol av one shots anything)

From there on up the disparity only gets WORSE. AV need 10x less SP and 100x less ISK to effectively counter any vehicle that cost 10x more sp and 1000x more isk. So, wtf?

And lets not forget the people who call in a railgun tank, sit 100 meters behind the redline on a hill, and take potshots at us the entire time we are in the air. This also applys to the railgun/missle turrets that sit behind the redline where we cannot reach them.

If you want a CPM who might listen to any of this,

Look at this thread. Guy has his skype info. Add him and lets get a conversation going. Perhaps even a conference sometime later?



https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73078

Very skilled and experienced pilot here:

In my opinion the biggest problem is that a completely decked out dropship(assualt logistics or standard) with all the modules and skills seems to be balanced ONLY when flown against militia/standard AV. Against AV at this level you will be denied your effectiveness around them yet still have an opportunity to do your job(troop transport, gunship, scout) for a few seconds before having to retreat. However, against proto AV you immediately have to retreat or your ship quickly becomes a burning wreck. Dropships NEED a big buff to shields/armor.

Yeah I laughed at missile turrets last build, now they're one of my biggest nightmares, they don't kill me but since they are almost always far back in the redline they can block such huge amounts of the map. And rail guns are even worse for it, and boasters are just bitches because they can aim so far.

And lets not forget the people who call in a railgun tank, sit 100 meters behind the redline on a hill, and take potshots at us the entire time we are in the air. This also applys to the railgun/missle turrets that sit behind the redline where we cannot reach them.

Bump

Look overall in terms of flying the dropship and losing them has changed rather vastly, Controls are different, if you where very good in chomosome then I apologize but some of your mind set on flying does need to adjust to the newer controls and work from there.

In an overall state of dropship as both pilot and destroyer, I am finding them far more fun than frustrating to fly and a challenge to shoot down now.

This topic needs to stew a bit, people get used to the new controls and figure out what is new and isn't new.

I am very proud to see people wanting to gun in my dropships again and trying to use it help in transporting from spot a to b, their survivability is vastly superior to chromosome's, mistakes far more forgiving as well.

As for warpoints its a bigger than dropship problem it is a game wide problem that calls for its own topic just about.

I secretly cheered on the inside after seeing an assault drop-ship take out a tank.

Ironwolf, you're the man, but this post shows that you don't understand or appreciate the position that pilots are in right now.

Waproints IS a dropship problem, because we cannot, I repeat CANNOT make anywhere near enough ISK to fund our vehicles. Nevermind that we have the longest crawl to get any kind of SP gains, so it takes us that much longer and costs us that much more to get into our ships that can even remotely help us out.

Us pilots CONSTANTLY adapt to new controls. Every freaking build. We ***** for a bit, then we adapt, and we do our job as best we can. Having CCP and now CPM show us that they don't understand or care about our positions as a serious role on the battlefield is just a little more than disheartening, and shows a very clear disconnect with this small but none the less important part of the community.

Look overall in terms of flying the dropship and losing them has changed rather vastly, Controls are different, if you where very good in chomosome then I apologize but some of your mind set on flying does need to adjust to the newer controls and work from there.

In an overall state of dropship as both pilot and destroyer, I am finding them far more fun than frustrating to fly and a challenge to shoot down now.

This topic needs to stew a bit, people get used to the new controls and figure out what is new and isn't new.

I am very proud to see people wanting to gun in my dropships again and trying to use it help in transporting from spot a to b, their survivability is vastly superior to chromosome's, mistakes far more forgiving as well.

As for warpoints its a bigger than dropship problem it is a game wide problem that calls for its own topic just about.

I secretly cheered on the inside after seeing an assault drop-ship take out a tank.

with my fully speced assault DS played 3 games in a row and a forge 3 shot me from accross the map and I was running away and really high in the air. Maybe the assault f forge wouldn't be so OP if it wasn't so damn accurate at range.

The controls aren't the issue, as dust fiend said, we can adapt to them pretty quickly, took me two games to get used to the new handling, but now my flying is better than ever. The issue is the lack of war points, the lack of ISK we get fulfilling our role, and the fact that advanced and proto AV is balanced against tanks, meaning we regularly get OHK or THK by AV before we even get a chance to react. The only reason I still fly, is because I like flying and enjoy the challenge it provides, because it sure as hell isn't the rewards that attract me. There's a reason the piloting community is so small, that's because anyone with any love of not being bankrupt stays away from dropships.

Forge guns will be 100% fine once they get "unlimited" range with falloff damage, just so long as their optimal range is pulled back a bit, so gaining altitude and putting distance between you actually makes some kind of difference.

The controls aren't the issue, as dust fiend said, we can adapt to them pretty quickly, took me two games to get used to the new handling, but now my flying is better than ever. The issue is the lack of war points, the lack of ISK we get fulfilling our role, and the fact that advanced and proto AV is balanced against tanks, meaning we regularly get OHK or THK by AV before we even get a chance to react. The only reason I still fly, is because I like flying and enjoy the challenge it provides, because it sure as hell isn't the rewards that attract me. There's a reason the piloting community is so small, that's because anyone with any love of not being bankrupt stays away from dropships.

Look overall in terms of flying the dropship and losing them has changed rather vastly, Controls are different, if you where very good in chomosome then I apologize but some of your mind set on flying does need to adjust to the newer controls and work from there.

In an overall state of dropship as both pilot and destroyer, I am finding them far more fun than frustrating to fly and a challenge to shoot down now.

This topic needs to stew a bit, people get used to the new controls and figure out what is new and isn't new.

I am very proud to see people wanting to gun in my dropships again and trying to use it help in transporting from spot a to b, their survivability is vastly superior to chromosome's, mistakes far more forgiving as well.

As for warpoints its a bigger than dropship problem it is a game wide problem that calls for its own topic just about.

I secretly cheered on the inside after seeing an assault drop-ship take out a tank.

Alright, before anyone reading this thinks "Oh great yet another pointless dropship topic", I have been flying Dropships since the Dust beta was released, and have been around on the forums to see all of the content discussed in other dropship topics since there have been many, but the main issue that i have been concerned about from the very start of the game, one that still exists (which i can't quite believe since i thought it would have been addressed by now), and that's the issue with actually making money and enjoying the game, while still being a full-time drop ship pilot, and the threat that buffing an assault forge-gun's range can pose. Don't get me wrong, i have no issue with regular forge guns, they are a reasonable addition to counteract a dropship, however things are far too unbalanced in a multitude of areas, First off the fire-rate for those forge guns combined with the damage they do is just unbelievable, how CCP could think vehicles would even be useful while putting a weapon that's so powerful in the game i have no idea, especially at this stage where they should be learning the vices and virtues of how infantry and vehicles work together, these negatives are making pilots suffer not only on the battlefield, but ISK wise as well.

As a pilot i earn no incentive for flying an Eryx, other than it has a little higher shields that can still be taken out in about 4 hits with the an assault forge gun (My shields on my Eryx are at 4,260), At the end of every single match i get around 70K in ISK (Even without losing a single dropship) Unless i get kills, which is impossible with an Eryx. Each loss of 1 drop ship results in around 670K to get a new one, and they are still fragile as hell compared to those forge guns. It's simply impossible to make a profit while being a pilot on Dust, and this is making many people bitter and disgusted with the fact that even when flying extremely well, and supporting the team (I fly very high in my eryx and let people spawn inside of it and bail out over enemy bases) we still get absolutely no points compared to the run-n-gunners on the ground that get paid around 200k each match for using weapons that usually cost around 2k per.

If you want to be a pilot right now in Dust, you basically have to accept the fact that when all is said and done in the costs of skilling to earn Logi and Assault ships, you will be completely broke after the forge guns dismantle the ship like it were nothing, even though it took so many SP points and ISK to get to fly that DS. CCP even claimed they would fix the issue with pilots getting no points for when their team mates spawn inside of the Dropship, making it reasonable to fly an Eryx since you could actually then make a profit, but even after this update, this issue has not been resolved, instead they just changed the color of the Eryx. I send this to you CCP as a plead to please pay attention to how screwed over pilots are getting here. There is no room for profit, and it's ruining a mechanism that could be essential for creating a truly immersive expereince in Dust as a whole.

May I point to the fact that you're not obliged to use expensive vehicles in pub matches? Those expensive vehicles are meant for decent squadplay and soon to be Planetary Conquest where it isn't important if you get tons of ISK, but just that you win.
If you want to make a profit go shoot stuff in the starter fits. That'll give you the best ISK/hour ratio.

May I point to the fact that you're not obliged to use expensive vehicles in pub matches? Those expensive vehicles are meant for decent squadplay and soon to be Planetary Conquest where it isn't important if you get tons of ISK, but just that you win.
If you want to make a profit go shoot stuff in the starter fits. That'll give you the best ISK/hour ratio.

And do you know what really rubs salt in the wound? The fact that we often get better rewards getting owned on the ground then we do doing our jobs in the air.

What do all those EVE players say, dont fly what you cant afford to lose right?
Besides with the ceiling as high as it is you can fly up out of range easily and hide your shiny toy in the sky

I swear to god everyone that pilots a vehicle in this game is near constantly calling for infantry to rendered useless against them
Anti vehicle stuff exists, deal with it, and you dont see real world pilots going "Waaaah, RPGS designed in the 70s are still a threat to us, tell the enemy commander he needs to nerf his soldiers weapons so we cant be shot down"

May I point to the fact that you're not obliged to use expensive vehicles in pub matches? Those expensive vehicles are meant for decent squadplay and soon to be Planetary Conquest where it isn't important if you get tons of ISK, but just that you win.
If you want to make a profit go shoot stuff in the starter fits. That'll give you the best ISK/hour ratio.

If you want to see the problem clearly here's the clear cut perfect evidence:

Cheapest possible HAV (using ISK) = 138,040 ISK
-likely ISK earned during a round using that HAV exclusively 200,000+ ISK

Cheapest possible Dropship (using ISK) = 151,840 ISK
-likely ISK earned during a round using that dropship exclusively <80,000 ISK



Last build I was using militia HAVs to earn money to pay for my militia Dropships.

Please stop bumping this thread guys. If you don't have anything constructive to say, please kindly sit back and let this thread die.

Very few want dropships to be addressed more than me, specifically for newer players; as well as future players and future vehicle platforms. As far as vehicles go, HAVs have had the spotlight basically the entire beta. LAVs have just kind of been there, not overly good, not overly bad. And then there have been dropships; the gimpy third leg of the vehicle trifecta.

They fly, they can do stuff, but they can't be sustained financially alone, and they also severely hinder the players SP gains. Unlike LAVs, you can't just call in a free dropship. At absolute least you're spending what, 150k (games not on atm) for a bare bones hull of a militia dropship. If you're doing what a dropship should be doing, you WILL lose that ship. Period. The only way to be an effective pilot tactically is to use top end ships.

Giving us the assault dropship is great fun, but really, it's a tragedy because we're so close to release (is this still confirmed, release on 14th?). You dangle this cool (yet difficult and not overly effective, but still cool) dropship in front of new players, and tell them to skill into dropships, yet between the cost of learning to fly and the cost of skill books....where is all that ISK coming from? The LAV driver can drive a free LAV. The tank driver can actually tank, and still contribute from behind the redline. Dropships? No, you get out there or you're completely useless to your team.

You're providing overwatch, constantly relaying information to your team. Your performing areal drops under fire after you've done a pass to check for enemies, then repositioning to engage hostiles or moving to pick up more squad mates. You're performing extractions under fire, trying to dodge immensely simple to fire FREE railguns from deep behind the redline, no matter where you are. You're footing the bill of 500k for a garbage ship to 1 million + for a passable ship, all the while earning between 25 to 150k per match, with 80-120 being what you usually see. You're constantly babysitting your craft as you level off for your gunners, move out while under fire, constantly weave and bob to avoid forge guns and enemy dropships, all the while remaining completely aware of your surroundings as you hurtle around, trying to land for an extraction without smacking the planet.

And we get nothing. WP for pilots, as far as we can tell, isn't even on the table. It's not being discussed. It's not a primary concern.

How can new players become pilots?

I challenge you CCP.

How?

The dropship is supposed to be a team-building vehicle, something to greatly enhance the available tactics and strategy.

I suppose the reason it hasn't seen any love and attention is that CCP hasn't developed any tactical element into the game yet. It's all been about getting the basic shooter experience working.

The dropship is meant for a different game than the one we are playing right now. It's in the game but not part of it. There is no need for it tactically. Every map is build for basic foot traffic.

I've said it before in other posts, but I'll say it again. The real ammunition of a DS is a coordinated infantry squad. Without that payload the DS is relegated to secondary missions. Uprising brings us squads of six so it is possible to experiment with the transport role for the first time, but given the maps we have their impact will still be minimal because it is still nearly as efficient to hoof it from one objective to another.

Others have said it in other threads, there is no strategy or tactics in the current game. It's just mindless zerging mobs and Brownian motion. A tactical vehicle has no place in DUST at this time.

I've come to the conclusion that we should all just put them away in their hangers for a year or two until CCP introduces a true need for them.

The one thing that the trailer folks got right is that in everyone I've seen a dropship, there one spinning out of control just about to crash.

Lmfao too damn true....actually, you know what...even that is a lie....I don't think I've ever once seen a dropship spin out of control and crash in the game; they always just burn, roll to the side slightly, and nose dive into the ground >_<

So yea, even CCPs own videos lie about dropships lmfao, good find hahaha

Well, I give them a bit of poetic license. They also show RDV's hot dropping a column of tanks to heavy music when the reality would be one guy looking up as an RDV slams his toy into a building and plays keep-away to the tune of the Sugar Plum Faires.

It just doesn't make you want to rush to play in the same way.

What do all those EVE players say, dont fly what you cant afford to lose right?
Besides with the ceiling as high as it is you can fly up out of range easily and hide your shiny toy in the sky

I swear to god everyone that pilots a vehicle in this game is near constantly calling for infantry to rendered useless against them
Anti vehicle stuff exists, deal with it, and you dont see real world pilots going "Waaaah, RPGS designed in the 70s are still a threat to us, tell the enemy commander he needs to nerf his soldiers weapons so we cant be shot down"

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Forge guns will be 100% fine once they get "infinite" range with falloff damage, so long as their optimal range is tweaked back a bit. That makes disengaging and gaining altitude an actual viable tactic vs the forge gun, allowing you to mitigate damage by putting distance between you. It also rewards smart forge gunners who wait for the ship to get close and level out before opening fire.

What do all those EVE players say, dont fly what you cant afford to lose right?
Besides with the ceiling as high as it is you can fly up out of range easily and hide your shiny toy in the sky

I swear to god everyone that pilots a vehicle in this game is near constantly calling for infantry to rendered useless against them
Anti vehicle stuff exists, deal with it, and you dont see real world pilots going "Waaaah, RPGS designed in the 70s are still a threat to us, tell the enemy commander he needs to nerf his soldiers weapons so we cant be shot down"

In Dust we just say, "Don't fly."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Forge guns will be 100% fine once they get "infinite" range with falloff damage, so long as their optimal range is tweaked back a bit. That makes disengaging and gaining altitude an actual viable tactic vs the forge gun, allowing you to mitigate damage by putting distance between you. It also rewards smart forge gunners who wait for the ship to get close and level out before opening fire.

Forge guns can be used against infantry, it's s OHK weapon on them, but then you have to be pretty good to hit infantry with them. Their high damage negates light shield boosters by an incredible extent. And the sp required to get a good vehicle fit far outweighs how much is needed to max out forge gun skills. Oh and their much cheaper than dropships too, by a huge factor. Just some facts to take into account whe talking about forge guns and dropships.

Arguably more important yet, is that the gameplay between the two isn't particularly enjoyable or engaging. As a dropship pilot it rarely feels as if you're going down because you were outplayed, you generally feel somewhat helpless and ineffectual. On the other side, forge gun feels so powerful it's boring to use. You just wait for the pilot to slow down and try to actually do something and then you blindside them out of the sky.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

...
5. Lastly, we're aware of turret issues that have come up. Many of the improvements needed will require code support to fix lingering bugs as well as further flesh out existing systems. We are currently working on this as our next set of code fixes.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

2. We are also want to get countermeasures in soon, as well as a lock-on warning system for players piloting vehicles that have been locked on to. The lock-on indication will be a graduated indicator so that you will have a decent idea of how imminent your time to impact is and can choose to act accordingly. Furthermore, we're also working on porting lock-on to a certain subset of turrets. This will come in helpful for dropship pilots who are engaged in dogfights, or supporting assaults against ground units.

3. As one of our immediate tasks, we want to look at how we can provide dropship pilots with more chances to earn WP. We have lots of ideas in mind, however we need to tread carefully on this one so that we're not opening up too many opportunities for exploit. Some of the ideas that are bouncing around are providing WP for players spawned into your craft, WP for use of active scanners (possibly more specialized ones), and finding a way to re-introduce WP for remote repairs without exploit.

4. We will be reducing the ISK cost of dropships so that players can get into them more easily, while also looking at the overall skill cost of this class of vehicle.

5. Lastly, we're aware of turret issues that have come up. Many of the improvements needed will require code support to fix lingering bugs as well as further flesh out existing systems. We are currently working on this as our next set of code fixes.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

Our dropship pilot makes money in pub matches, of course he always makes sure he has 2 gunners. That and he makes sure to fly intelligently and not only watch his shield/armor but the shield/armor of his gunners. Yes forge guns and swarm launchers hit hard but as long as you pay attention you will do great.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

2. We are also want to get countermeasures in soon, as well as a lock-on warning system for players piloting vehicles that have been locked on to. The lock-on indication will be a graduated indicator so that you will have a decent idea of how imminent your time to impact is and can choose to act accordingly. Furthermore, we're also working on porting lock-on to a certain subset of turrets. This will come in helpful for dropship pilots who are engaged in dogfights, or supporting assaults against ground units.

3. As one of our immediate tasks, we want to look at how we can provide dropship pilots with more chances to earn WP. We have lots of ideas in mind, however we need to tread carefully on this one so that we're not opening up too many opportunities for exploit. Some of the ideas that are bouncing around are providing WP for players spawned into your craft, WP for use of active scanners (possibly more specialized ones), and finding a way to re-introduce WP for remote repairs without exploit.

4. We will be reducing the ISK cost of dropships so that players can get into them more easily, while also looking at the overall skill cost of this class of vehicle.

5. Lastly, we're aware of turret issues that have come up. Many of the improvements needed will require code support to fix lingering bugs as well as further flesh out existing systems. We are currently working on this as our next set of code fixes.

Its a nightmare to be a pilot cause every 1 on the enemy team switches to AV instantly in the expectation of a easy kill. This however never happends when a LAV or a HAV is going on a rampage..

Hopefully. Probably be 500 meters before damage drops off

Learn to fly better.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

2. We are also want to get countermeasures in soon, as well as a lock-on warning system for players piloting vehicles that have been locked on to. The lock-on indication will be a graduated indicator so that you will have a decent idea of how imminent your time to impact is and can choose to act accordingly. Furthermore, we're also working on porting lock-on to a certain subset of turrets. This will come in helpful for dropship pilots who are engaged in dogfights, or supporting assaults against ground units.

3. As one of our immediate tasks, we want to look at how we can provide dropship pilots with more chances to earn WP. We have lots of ideas in mind, however we need to tread carefully on this one so that we're not opening up too many opportunities for exploit. Some of the ideas that are bouncing around are providing WP for players spawned into your craft, WP for use of active scanners (possibly more specialized ones), and finding a way to re-introduce WP for remote repairs without exploit.

4. We will be reducing the ISK cost of dropships so that players can get into them more easily, while also looking at the overall skill cost of this class of vehicle.

5. Lastly, we're aware of turret issues that have come up. Many of the improvements needed will require code support to fix lingering bugs as well as further flesh out existing systems. We are currently working on this as our next set of code fixes.

I'm not asking for a huge nerf that would dismantle things for others, it's just that it is literally impossible to earn money as a DS pilot, while everyone else can still make a reasonable profit. There needs to be incintives for being a "pilot", especially a logistics one. And the fact there isn't and still has not been is extremely discouraging, especially with a company like CCP that boasts its large-scale warfare. What's even more discouraging is i am sure you yourself are not even a dropship pilot. I fly very well, and rarely loose any dropships in matches, but even though i am good and can support my team and myself, i still earn no money. This, is the problem.

Also, kind of pointing out the obvious here; But EVE and Dust (Gameplay wise) Are two COMPLETELY different things. Especially as far as the economy is concerned.

.... CCP even claimed they would fix the issue with pilots getting no points for when their team mates spawn inside of the Dropship, making it reasonable to fly an Eryx since you could actually then make a profit, but even after this update, this issue has not been resolved, instead they just changed the color of the Eryx.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

2. We are also want to get countermeasures in soon, as well as a lock-on warning system for players piloting vehicles that have been locked on to. The lock-on indication will be a graduated indicator so that you will have a decent idea of how imminent your time to impact is and can choose to act accordingly. Furthermore, we're also working on porting lock-on to a certain subset of turrets. This will come in helpful for dropship pilots who are engaged in dogfights, or supporting assaults against ground units.

3. As one of our immediate tasks, we want to look at how we can provide dropship pilots with more chances to earn WP. We have lots of ideas in mind, however we need to tread carefully on this one so that we're not opening up too many opportunities for exploit. Some of the ideas that are bouncing around are providing WP for players spawned into your craft, WP for use of active scanners (possibly more specialized ones), and finding a way to re-introduce WP for remote repairs without exploit.

4. We will be reducing the ISK cost of dropships so that players can get into them more easily, while also looking at the overall skill cost of this class of vehicle.

5. Lastly, we're aware of turret issues that have come up. Many of the improvements needed will require code support to fix lingering bugs as well as further flesh out existing systems. We are currently working on this as our next set of code fixes.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

2. We are also want to get countermeasures in soon, as well as a lock-on warning system for players piloting vehicles that have been locked on to. The lock-on indication will be a graduated indicator so that you will have a decent idea of how imminent your time to impact is and can choose to act accordingly. Furthermore, we're also working on porting lock-on to a certain subset of turrets. This will come in helpful for dropship pilots who are engaged in dogfights, or supporting assaults against ground units.

3. As one of our immediate tasks, we want to look at how we can provide dropship pilots with more chances to earn WP. We have lots of ideas in mind, however we need to tread carefully on this one so that we're not opening up too many opportunities for exploit. Some of the ideas that are bouncing around are providing WP for players spawned into your craft, WP for use of active scanners (possibly more specialized ones), and finding a way to re-introduce WP for remote repairs without exploit.

4. We will be reducing the ISK cost of dropships so that players can get into them more easily, while also looking at the overall skill cost of this class of vehicle.

5. Lastly, we're aware of turret issues that have come up. Many of the improvements needed will require code support to fix lingering bugs as well as further flesh out existing systems. We are currently working on this as our next set of code fixes.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

2. We are also want to get countermeasures in soon, as well as a lock-on warning system for players piloting vehicles that have been locked on to. The lock-on indication will be a graduated indicator so that you will have a decent idea of how imminent your time to impact is and can choose to act accordingly. Furthermore, we're also working on porting lock-on to a certain subset of turrets. This will come in helpful for dropship pilots who are engaged in dogfights, or supporting assaults against ground units.

3. As one of our immediate tasks, we want to look at how we can provide dropship pilots with more chances to earn WP. We have lots of ideas in mind, however we need to tread carefully on this one so that we're not opening up too many opportunities for exploit. Some of the ideas that are bouncing around are providing WP for players spawned into your craft, WP for use of active scanners (possibly more specialized ones), and finding a way to re-introduce WP for remote repairs without exploit.

4. We will be reducing the ISK cost of dropships so that players can get into them more easily, while also looking at the overall skill cost of this class of vehicle.

5. Lastly, we're aware of turret issues that have come up. Many of the improvements needed will require code support to fix lingering bugs as well as further flesh out existing systems. We are currently working on this as our next set of code fixes.

Thank you for the response CCP Blam, it's very relieving to know you've seen our feedback and are seriously considering at least some of it.

To the rest of you, please keep up the constructive discussion, this is a good thread for us pilots, lets keep it going in that direction ^_^

So, we can expect this to be added in 2015, right?

Hopefully we should be seeing the first(or majority) of these changes in the next 6 months. We can only hope that the wait isn't too long.

What do all those EVE players say, dont fly what you cant afford to lose right?
Besides with the ceiling as high as it is you can fly up out of range easily and hide your shiny toy in the sky

I swear to god everyone that pilots a vehicle in this game is near constantly calling for infantry to rendered useless against them
Anti vehicle stuff exists, deal with it, and you dont see real world pilots going "Waaaah, RPGS designed in the 70s are still a threat to us, tell the enemy commander he needs to nerf his soldiers weapons so we cant be shot down"

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

2. We are also want to get countermeasures in soon, as well as a lock-on warning system for players piloting vehicles that have been locked on to. The lock-on indication will be a graduated indicator so that you will have a decent idea of how imminent your time to impact is and can choose to act accordingly. Furthermore, we're also working on porting lock-on to a certain subset of turrets. This will come in helpful for dropship pilots who are engaged in dogfights, or supporting assaults against ground units.

3. As one of our immediate tasks, we want to look at how we can provide dropship pilots with more chances to earn WP. We have lots of ideas in mind, however we need to tread carefully on this one so that we're not opening up too many opportunities for exploit. Some of the ideas that are bouncing around are providing WP for players spawned into your craft, WP for use of active scanners (possibly more specialized ones), and finding a way to re-introduce WP for remote repairs without exploit.

4. We will be reducing the ISK cost of dropships so that players can get into them more easily, while also looking at the overall skill cost of this class of vehicle.

5. Lastly, we're aware of turret issues that have come up. Many of the improvements needed will require code support to fix lingering bugs as well as further flesh out existing systems. We are currently working on this as our next set of code fixes.

A response? I like it where this is going. keep them coming.

leave the FG alone! only heavies can use it, it get's expensive, hard to fit at times, low amount of ammo, and no nano hives to insta replenish like other people can.

the FG is not the problem, it's the lack of powerful tanks and counters.

we already have a limited range, compared to rail tanks that can hit anywhere on a map. leave it alone!

If you make the main focus of AV weapons the destruction of vehicles you will never get the balance right. Instead the focus needs to be on suppressing the function of the vehicle and area of denial. In the case of tanks or LAV's this of course means destruction because they currently serve an offensive role.

The dropship however does not serve an offensive role so the destruction of the dropship is of less importance than denying them the ability to deposit additional forces in a certain area. To this end here are some ideas I've had. This is just brainstorming though, I'm not saying whether these are good or bad.

1. Substantial increase to the DS's ability to resistance damage. This could be accomplished by either increasing the base resistance or introducing resistance modules exclusive to aerial vehicles that offer a substantial increase in effectiveness over modules for ground vehicles or possibly a much, much shorter cool down period, etc.... The second option is probably the best since it requires skill and sound judgement on the part of the pilot to be effective instead of simply making them tougher across the board.

2. Remove all turrets from the DS and replace them with some sort of exclusive weapon that is only effective against other vehicles, possibly one similar to a swarm launcher but with a more limited ability to home in on the target and reduced damage or something along those lines. Honestly the DS has no need for anti-infantry weapons. It's too hard to hit anything with rails unless you are hovering over a tank in which case an exclusive AV weapon would also work. Blasters have too limited of a range and there's no way to make missile turrets work without breaking them again.

3. Bring back the old AB.

4. Maybe give DS an exclusive module that projects a shield around the ship that blocks almost all incoming damage but prevents anyone from jumping out giving the ship time to return to safety while preventing it from actually doing anything which as long as the DS has limited offensive capabilities

CCP, we're still here

And we're all very *$(%ed
and very broke.

First wave of respecs is landing on Monday, I already have my build all mapped out and waiting to go ^_^

**** dropships

CCP, we're still here

And we're all very *$(%ed
and very broke.

I saw this thread before. Another guy complains that it's unfair that his shiny toy can be wiped out in 4-5 hits from a single hit weapon with a long refire delay, demand to lead a highly mobile target, having limited ammo, small clip, having to give up a primary anti-infantry weapon and all of that is against a highly mobile target that can make it to the other side of the map in the time it takes the FG to fire 2-3 times back to back. It's not fair and unbalanced? REALLY?

I would agree that dropships currently lack a role. No one takes them seriously as a personnel transport vehicle cuz they are not just that good at it. Their fire capacity is garbage too and if it were any better they would be OP against infantry. I do believe that dropship mechanics need to be redesigned and they have to have some interesting objectives given to them. I disagree that we need to Nerf FG to make DS pilots feel safe and cozy and thus encourage their lazyness.

I saw this thread before. Another guy complains that it's unfair that his shiny toy can be wiped out in 4-5 hits from a single hit weapon with a long refire delay, demand to lead a highly mobile target, having limited ammo, small clip, having to give up a primary anti-infantry weapon and all of that is against a highly mobile target that can make it to the other side of the map in the time it takes the FG to fire 2-3 times back to back. It's not fair and unbalanced? REALLY?

I would agree that dropships currently lack a role. No one takes them seriously as a personnel transport vehicle cuz they are not just that good at it. Their fire capacity is garbage too and if it were any better they would be OP against infantry. I do believe that dropship mechanics need to be redesigned and they have to have some interesting objectives given to them. I disagree that we need to Nerf FG to make DS pilots feel safe and cozy and thus encourage their lazyness.

I saw this thread before. Another guy complains that it's unfair that his shiny toy can be wiped out in 4-5 hits from a single hit weapon with a long refire delay, demand to lead a highly mobile target, having limited ammo, small clip, having to give up a primary anti-infantry weapon and all of that is against a highly mobile target that can make it to the other side of the map in the time it takes the FG to fire 2-3 times back to back. It's not fair and unbalanced? REALLY?

I would agree that dropships currently lack a role. No one takes them seriously as a personnel transport vehicle cuz they are not just that good at it. Their fire capacity is garbage too and if it were any better they would be OP against infantry. I do believe that dropship mechanics need to be redesigned and they have to have some interesting objectives given to them. I disagree that we need to Nerf FG to make DS pilots feel safe and cozy and thus encourage their lazyness.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

2. We are also want to get countermeasures in soon, as well as a lock-on warning system for players piloting vehicles that have been locked on to. The lock-on indication will be a graduated indicator so that you will have a decent idea of how imminent your time to impact is and can choose to act accordingly. Furthermore, we're also working on porting lock-on to a certain subset of turrets. This will come in helpful for dropship pilots who are engaged in dogfights, or supporting assaults against ground units.

3. As one of our immediate tasks, we want to look at how we can provide dropship pilots with more chances to earn WP. We have lots of ideas in mind, however we need to tread carefully on this one so that we're not opening up too many opportunities for exploit. Some of the ideas that are bouncing around are providing WP for players spawned into your craft, WP for use of active scanners (possibly more specialized ones), and finding a way to re-introduce WP for remote repairs without exploit.

4. We will be reducing the ISK cost of dropships so that players can get into them more easily, while also looking at the overall skill cost of this class of vehicle.

5. Lastly, we're aware of turret issues that have come up. Many of the improvements needed will require code support to fix lingering bugs as well as further flesh out existing systems. We are currently working on this as our next set of code fixes.

I saw this thread before. Another guy complains that it's unfair that his shiny toy can be wiped out in 4-5 hits from a single hit weapon with a long refire delay, demand to lead a highly mobile target, having limited ammo, small clip, having to give up a primary anti-infantry weapon and all of that is against a highly mobile target that can make it to the other side of the map in the time it takes the FG to fire 2-3 times back to back. It's not fair and unbalanced? REALLY?

I would agree that dropships currently lack a role. No one takes them seriously as a personnel transport vehicle cuz they are not just that good at it. Their fire capacity is garbage too and if it were any better they would be OP against infantry. I do believe that dropship mechanics need to be redesigned and they have to have some interesting objectives given to them. I disagree that we need to Nerf FG to make DS pilots feel safe and cozy and thus encourage their lazyness.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

2. We are also want to get countermeasures in soon, as well as a lock-on warning system for players piloting vehicles that have been locked on to. The lock-on indication will be a graduated indicator so that you will have a decent idea of how imminent your time to impact is and can choose to act accordingly. Furthermore, we're also working on porting lock-on to a certain subset of turrets. This will come in helpful for dropship pilots who are engaged in dogfights, or supporting assaults against ground units.

3. As one of our immediate tasks, we want to look at how we can provide dropship pilots with more chances to earn WP. We have lots of ideas in mind, however we need to tread carefully on this one so that we're not opening up too many opportunities for exploit. Some of the ideas that are bouncing around are providing WP for players spawned into your craft, WP for use of active scanners (possibly more specialized ones), and finding a way to re-introduce WP for remote repairs without exploit.

4. We will be reducing the ISK cost of dropships so that players can get into them more easily, while also looking at the overall skill cost of this class of vehicle.

5. Lastly, we're aware of turret issues that have come up. Many of the improvements needed will require code support to fix lingering bugs as well as further flesh out existing systems. We are currently working on this as our next set of code fixes.

Here's some numbers, everyone likes numbers, helps back up a point.

Light clarity ward shield booster
Heals 127hp per pulse
Has 5 pulses
Pulses have a 1 second interval.

In other words it heals 635hp over 5 seconds, or about a quarter of the health of what a average shield dropship should have.

Having timed it it takes about 2 seconds after being selected to activate.

Now then, to the enemy.

Lets go with an standard and an assault forge gun

First the standard(adv variant to keep things fair)
It does 1452 damage per shot
Has a charge up time of 3.5 seconds
Has a clip size of four

Straightaway you'll see that 1 shot of a forge gun will take away over half the health of our bare average shield tank dropship, and had done just under 3 times the damage that a shield repper can repair. With its clip size and charge up time it can deal a total of 5808 damage in 14 seconds.

In other words 2 shots will be enough to kill our average tanked dropship.

Now for the assault forge gun (which starts at the advanced variant)
It has a direct damage of 1524.6hp
Has a charge up time of 2.5 seconds
And has a clip size of four

Notice how this thing has both a higher base damage and charge up time? Absolutely wonderful don't you think?
In 5 seconds it has done 3049.2 damage
In ten seconds it had done 6098.4 damage

So the assault forge gun can in the same time span that the best light shield repper on the market can run do over 6 times the damage it can heal. Not to mention that by the time the module actually activates the second shot will be less than half a second away from hitting you.

Now admittedly these numbers don't take resistance into account but I'm not 100% sure on how they work, so we'll do without.

It also doesn't take into account forge gun skills or damage mods. Forge gun skills can reduce the charge up time by 25% and can increase the damage per shot by 15%.

Things are massively in favor of the forge gunner.

Cant we have a threat indicator? a red box which will go around railgun installations, people armed with AV weapons and tanks so we can better know where to move to be out of the way.

leave the FG alone! only heavies can use it, it get's expensive, hard to fit at times, low amount of ammo, and no nano hives to insta replenish like other people can.

the FG is not the problem, it's the lack of powerful tanks and counters.

we already have a limited range, compared to rail tanks that can hit anywhere on a map. leave it alone!

OP said that his DS has 4260 hp shield, not sure about how much extra armor that thing has, probably 800 at least or so. Looks like it will take assault FG about 10 seconds of continuous fire on the drop ship to bring it down. I am not gonna comment here whether assault FG is OP relative to the base version - this belongs in the FG thread. What you guys seem to agree is that AFG poses more threat to you than any other weapon. If we run you calculation and apply it to the ship OP has described, we will see about 10 sec of continued fire are required to bring the ship down. So that's 10 sec of perfectly aimed lead and placed shots in an FPS game on a very mobile target. I don't fly DS but in my mind this is not OP at all.

I saw a bunch of ppl accusing me of not knowing what I am talking about because I don't fly DS. True, I don't fly DS. But I did used to play a little with FG in chromosome. What I was used to seeing is a DS circling around the map over my head OVER and OVER and OVER again after having already been hit by a couple of bolts from my FG without any attempt to run for cover and let shields rep up, so basically until eventually the DS shot down, which was inevitable because of the dumb tactics DS pilots typically use of flying in circles and hoping that the bad FGunner would not hit them again like he did last time the DS flew over.

From where I sit it seems that what all of you guys want is a penalty free game style where you can continue thoughlessly flying in circles around the map without any countermeasure by the infantry.

OP said that his DS has 4260 hp shield, not sure about how much extra armor that thing has, probably 800 at least or so. Looks like it will take assault FG about 10 seconds of continuous fire on the drop ship to bring it down. I am not gonna comment here whether assault FG is OP relative to the base version - this belongs in the FG thread. What you guys seem to agree is that AFG poses more threat to you than any other weapon. If we run you calculation and apply it to the ship OP has described, we will see about 10 sec of continued fire are required to bring the ship down. So that's 10 sec of perfectly aimed lead and placed shots in an FPS game on a very mobile target. I don't fly DS but in my mind this is not OP at all.

WAAAAAAAAAA I am the BEST pilot in dust. I can crash and burn any ship just by playing bumper cars. The ships fly perfect now. Just have to use air brakes. They do need to add landing gear.

WAAAAAAAAAA I am the BEST pilot in dust. I can crash and burn any ship just by playing bumper cars. The ships fly perfect now. Just have to use air brakes. They do need to add landing gear.

Any advice for a would-be pilot gentlemen?

Any advice for a would-be pilot gentlemen?

When your in a turret on a drop ship people sometimes don't render specifically forgegun's

Any advice for a would-be pilot gentlemen?

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.

2. We are also want to get countermeasures in soon, as well as a lock-on warning system for players piloting vehicles that have been locked on to. The lock-on indication will be a graduated indicator so that you will have a decent idea of how imminent your time to impact is and can choose to act accordingly. Furthermore, we're also working on porting lock-on to a certain subset of turrets. This will come in helpful for dropship pilots who are engaged in dogfights, or supporting assaults against ground units.

3. As one of our immediate tasks, we want to look at how we can provide dropship pilots with more chances to earn WP. We have lots of ideas in mind, however we need to tread carefully on this one so that we're not opening up too many opportunities for exploit. Some of the ideas that are bouncing around are providing WP for players spawned into your craft, WP for use of active scanners (possibly more specialized ones), and finding a way to re-introduce WP for remote repairs without exploit.

4. We will be reducing the ISK cost of dropships so that players can get into them more easily, while also looking at the overall skill cost of this class of vehicle.

5. Lastly, we're aware of turret issues that have come up. Many of the improvements needed will require code support to fix lingering bugs as well as further flesh out existing systems. We are currently working on this as our next set of code fixes.

Here's some numbers, everyone likes numbers, helps back up a point.

Light clarity ward shield booster
Heals 127hp per pulse
Has 5 pulses
Pulses have a 1 second interval.

In other words it heals 635hp over 5 seconds, or about a quarter of the health of what a average shield dropship should have.

Having timed it it takes about 2 seconds after being selected to activate.

Now then, to the enemy.

Lets go with an standard and an assault forge gun

First the standard(adv variant to keep things fair)
It does 1452 damage per shot
Has a charge up time of 3.5 seconds
Has a clip size of four

Straightaway you'll see that 1 shot of a forge gun will take away over half the health of our bare average shield tank dropship, and had done just under 3 times the damage that a shield repper can repair. With its clip size and charge up time it can deal a total of 5808 damage in 14 seconds.

In other words 2 shots will be enough to kill our average tanked dropship.

Now for the assault forge gun (which starts at the advanced variant)
It has a direct damage of 1524.6hp
Has a charge up time of 2.5 seconds
And has a clip size of four

Notice how this thing has both a higher base damage and charge up time? Absolutely wonderful don't you think?
In 5 seconds it has done 3049.2 damage
In ten seconds it had done 6098.4 damage

So the assault forge gun can in the same time span that the best light shield repper on the market can run do over 6 times the damage it can heal. Not to mention that by the time the module actually activates the second shot will be less than half a second away from hitting you.

Now admittedly these numbers don't take resistance into account but I'm not 100% sure on how they work, so we'll do without.

It also doesn't take into account forge gun skills or damage mods. Forge gun skills can reduce the charge up time by 25% and can increase the damage per shot by 15%.

Things are massively in favor of the forge gunner.

yo the booster works over 20 seconds not over 5 seconds. shield booster every 4 seconds while armor reps 3times over 3 seconds(one per second) with one second breaks between cycles/pulse so armor gets 3x posted repair per pulse while shields get 1.

Hi guys, let me provide you guys with provide some feedback on this topic.

1. We are looking at doing re-balancing of our AV weapons. One of the topics, which also seems to be showing through on this thread is to keep a decently long enough range on the forge gun, but also look at the damage decay variable over time on it, optimal ranges, etc. Because agreed, that it is a very potent anti-vehicle weapon and it's not exactly something that is easily countered with countermeasures (see next point). We also don't want the forge gun to be nerfed to the point of feeling ineffective, so a direct reduction of damage output across the board is not going to be the simple answer there.