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A desperate message to CCP, from a veteran dropship pilot.

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gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1516	Posted - 2013.05.11 15:28:00 - [1] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Learn to fly better. The real problem, like others are saying are assault forge guns. Their charge up time allows them to get multiple shots onto a dropship before their modules are even taking effect, its ROF is way too fast.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1516	Posted - 2013.05.11 15:36:00 - [2] - Quote ladwar wrote: Vin Vicious wrote: Forge gun= night night shield tanker Swarm = night night armor tanker Thought that was well known actually forge is for both shield and armor. And is way too effective overall. High damage to both shields and armour, absolutely zero warning to the target, minuscule travel time compared to other forms of AV, and a huge range, oh and it can be used as an anti infantry weapon too.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1517	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:22:00 - [3] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Serimos Haeraven wrote: I'm not asking for a huge nerf that would dismantle things for others, it's just that it is literally impossible to earn money as a DS pilot, while everyone else can still make a reasonable profit. There needs to be incintives for being a "pilot", especially a logistics one. And the fact there isn't and still has not been is extremely discouraging, especially with a company like CCP that boasts its large-scale warfare. What's even more discouraging is i am sure you yourself are not even a dropship pilot. I fly very well, and rarely loose any dropships in matches, but even though i am good and can support my team and myself, i still earn no money. This, is the problem. Also, kind of pointing out the obvious here; But EVE and Dust (Gameplay wise) Are two COMPLETELY different things. Especially as far as the economy is concerned. Dude..... its a dropship. It drops people off. Use it to do what it was meant to. Just because you cant go all crazy and get scores like 20 and 0 in it doesn't mean its broken, it means that theres another vehicle for another time that will fulfill that role. Heavy assault ships will be a thing eventually, but until then you'll have to get used to your flying LAV dying. Oh we are all very used to our "flying LAV's" dying, I'd say we die more than any other vehicle type excluding free LAV's. the reason you see us aiming for kills is that there's no other way for us to get WP, we're rewarded for acting like a gunship, not a dropship, months after we have made the problem known, we still haven't seen any method of doing ou job and getting WP for it, not even the small act of getting points for people spawning on MCRU's. we want to do our designated job, our chances if survival are much better when we stick to it, but we have no method of earning WP and the increased ISK/
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1520	Posted - 2013.05.11 20:38:00 - [4] - Quote Yeah I laughed at missile turrets last build, now they're one of my biggest nightmares, they don't kill me but since they are almost always far back in the redline they can block such huge amounts of the map. And rail guns are even worse for it, and boasters are just bitches because they can aim so far.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1522	Posted - 2013.05.11 21:52:00 - [5] - Quote If I remember right, dropship WP was in the near feature section of the advancing the core presentation, since CCP has actually bothered to give us some time frame for this, I'm going to hold them to it. But I'm not going to believe it till I actually see changes being made.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1523	Posted - 2013.05.11 22:16:00 - [6] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Look overall in terms of flying the dropship and losing them has changed rather vastly, Controls are different, if you where very good in chomosome then I apologize but some of your mind set on flying does need to adjust to the newer controls and work from there. In an overall state of dropship as both pilot and destroyer, I am finding them far more fun than frustrating to fly and a challenge to shoot down now. This topic needs to stew a bit, people get used to the new controls and figure out what is new and isn't new. I am very proud to see people wanting to gun in my dropships again and trying to use it help in transporting from spot a to b, their survivability is vastly superior to chromosome's, mistakes far more forgiving as well. As for warpoints its a bigger than dropship problem it is a game wide problem that calls for its own topic just about. I secretly cheered on the inside after seeing an assault drop-ship take out a tank. The controls aren't the issue, as dust fiend said, we can adapt to them pretty quickly, took me two games to get used to the new handling, but now my flying is better than ever. The issue is the lack of war points, the lack of ISK we get fulfilling our role, and the fact that advanced and proto AV is balanced against tanks, meaning we regularly get OHK or THK by AV before we even get a chance to react. The only reason I still fly, is because I like flying and enjoy the challenge it provides, because it sure as hell isn't the rewards that attract me. There's a reason the piloting community is so small, that's because anyone with any love of not being bankrupt stays away from dropships.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1527	Posted - 2013.05.11 23:34:00 - [7] - Quote Remm Duchax wrote: Serimos Haeraven wrote: Alright, before anyone reading this thinks "Oh great yet another pointless dropship topic", I have been flying Dropships since the Dust beta was released, and have been around on the forums to see all of the content discussed in other dropship topics since there have been many, but the main issue that i have been concerned about from the very start of the game, one that still exists (which i can't quite believe since i thought it would have been addressed by now), and that's the issue with actually making money and enjoying the game, while still being a full-time drop ship pilot, and the threat that buffing an assault forge-gun's range can pose. Don't get me wrong, i have no issue with regular forge guns, they are a reasonable addition to counteract a dropship, however things are far too unbalanced in a multitude of areas, First off the fire-rate for those forge guns combined with the damage they do is just unbelievable, how CCP could think vehicles would even be useful while putting a weapon that's so powerful in the game i have no idea, especially at this stage where they should be learning the vices and virtues of how infantry and vehicles work together, these negatives are making pilots suffer not only on the battlefield, but ISK wise as well. As a pilot i earn no incentive for flying an Eryx, other than it has a little higher shields that can still be taken out in about 4 hits with the an assault forge gun (My shields on my Eryx are at 4,260), At the end of every single match i get around 70K in ISK (Even without losing a single dropship) Unless i get kills, which is impossible with an Eryx. Each loss of 1 drop ship results in around 670K to get a new one, and they are still fragile as hell compared to those forge guns. It's simply impossible to make a profit while being a pilot on Dust, and this is making many people bitter and disgusted with the fact that even when flying extremely well, and supporting the team (I fly very high in my eryx and let people spawn inside of it and bail out over enemy bases) we still get absolutely no points compared to the run-n-gunners on the ground that get paid around 200k each match for using weapons that usually cost around 2k per. If you want to be a pilot right now in Dust, you basically have to accept the fact that when all is said and done in the costs of skilling to earn Logi and Assault ships, you will be completely broke after the forge guns dismantle the ship like it were nothing, even though it took so many SP points and ISK to get to fly that DS. CCP even claimed they would fix the issue with pilots getting no points for when their team mates spawn inside of the Dropship, making it reasonable to fly an Eryx since you could actually then make a profit, but even after this update, this issue has not been resolved, instead they just changed the color of the Eryx. I send this to you CCP as a plead to please pay attention to how screwed over pilots are getting here. There is no room for profit, and it's ruining a mechanism that could be essential for creating a truly immersive expereince in Dust as a whole. May I point to the fact that you're not obliged to use expensive vehicles in pub matches? Those expensive vehicles are meant for decent squadplay and soon to be Planetary Conquest where it isn't important if you get tons of ISK, but just that you win. If you want to make a profit go shoot stuff in the starter fits. That'll give you the best ISK/hour ratio. If I put 6million sp into infantry skills, I can still be effective in militia gear. When I put 6 million skills into vehicle skills, I am not effective when running militia gear. Christ how hard is that too understand, a vehicle users experience outside of a vehicle in an ISK earring fit, is just dying repeatedly, the only reason we make a profit is that our fits are so cheap. And do you know what really rubs salt in the wound? The fact that we often get better rewards getting owned on the ground then we do doing our jobs in the air.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1543	Posted - 2013.05.12 12:05:00 - [8] - Quote The only thing I think should happen to the assault forge gun is a slight increase in their charge up time, say an increase of 0.5-1 seconds.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1556	Posted - 2013.05.13 00:38:00 - [9] - Quote Forge guns can be used against infantry, it's s OHK weapon in them, but then yyou have to be pretty good to hit infantry with them. Their high damage negates light shield boosters by an incredible extent. And the sp required to get a good vehicle fit far outweighs how much is needed to max out forge gun skills. Oh and their much cheaper than dropships too, by a huge factor. Just some facts to take into account whe talking about forge guns and dropships.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1565	Posted - 2013.05.13 08:38:00 - [10] - Quote Hi blam, thanks for dropping by and giving us some Info on what's planned for dropships. And I like the idea of getting wp for using the active scanner, it plays to the dropships strength as a support aircraft, benefits both the pilot and the team, and will probably tie in with the whole ewar thing at some point.

gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1571	Posted - 2013.05.13 16:40:00 - [11] - Quote Hopefully we should be seeing the first(or majority) of these changes in the next 6 months. We can only hope that the wait isn't too long.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1812	Posted - 2013.05.25 19:32:00 - [12] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Nguruthos IV wrote: CCP, we're still here And we're all very $(%ed and very broke. First wave of respecs is landing on Monday, I already have my build all mapped out and waiting to go ^_^ * dropships You know what? ** infantry, honestly I see it as more of a chore than anything else, my fun in dust comes from vehicles.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1821	Posted - 2013.05.25 23:05:00 - [13] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: I saw this thread before. Another guy complains that it's unfair that his shiny toy can be wiped out in 4-5 hits from a single hit weapon with a long refire delay, demand to lead a highly mobile target, having limited ammo, small clip, having to give up a primary anti-infantry weapon and all of that is against a highly mobile target that can make it to the other side of the map in the time it takes the FG to fire 2-3 times back to back. It's not fair and unbalanced? REALLY? I would agree that dropships currently lack a role. No one takes them seriously as a personnel transport vehicle cuz they are not just that good at it. Their fire capacity is garbage too and if it were any better they would be OP against infantry. I do believe that dropship mechanics need to be redesigned and they have to have some interesting objectives given to them. I disagree that we need to Nerf FG to make DS pilots feel safe and cozy and thus encourage their lazyness. Here's some numbers, everyone likes numbers, helps back up a point. Light clarity ward shield booster Heals 127hp per pulse Has 5 pulses Pulses have a 1 second interval. In other words in 5 seconds it heals 635hp over 5 seconds, in other words about a quarter of the health of the bare minimum of what a shield dropship should have. Having timed it it takes about 2 seconds after being selected to activate. Now then, to the enemy. Lets go with an standard and an assault forge gun First the standard(adv variant to keep things fair) It does 1452 damage per shot Has a charge up time of 3.5 seconds Has a clip size of four Straightaway you'll see that 1 shot of a forge gun will take away over half the health of our bare average shield tank dropship, and had done just under 3 times the damage that a shield repper can repair. With its clip size and charge up time it can deal a total of 5808 damage in 14 seconds. In other words 2 shots will be enough to kill our average tanked dropship. Now for the assault forge gun (which starts at the advanced variant) It has a direct damage of 1524.6hp Has a charge up time of 2.5 seconds And has a clip size of four Notice how this thing has both a higher base damage and charge up time? Absolutely wonderful don't you think? In 5 seconds it has done 3049.2 damage In ten seconds it had done 6098.4 damage So the assault forge gun can in the same time span that the best light shield repper on the market can run do over 6 times the damage it can heal. Not to mention that by the time the module actually activates the second shot will be less than half a second away from hitting you. Now admittedly these numbers don't take resistance into account but I'm not 100% sure on how they work, so we'll do without. It also doesn't take into account forge gun skills or damage mods. Forge gun skills can reduce the charge up time by 25% and can increase the damage per shot by 15%. Things are massively in favor of the forge gunner.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1840	Posted - 2013.05.26 15:28:00 - [14] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: gbghg wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: I saw this thread before. Another guy complains that it's unfair that his shiny toy can be wiped out in 4-5 hits from a single hit weapon with a long refire delay, demand to lead a highly mobile target, having limited ammo, small clip, having to give up a primary anti-infantry weapon and all of that is against a highly mobile target that can make it to the other side of the map in the time it takes the FG to fire 2-3 times back to back. It's not fair and unbalanced? REALLY? I would agree that dropships currently lack a role. No one takes them seriously as a personnel transport vehicle cuz they are not just that good at it. Their fire capacity is garbage too and if it were any better they would be OP against infantry. I do believe that dropship mechanics need to be redesigned and they have to have some interesting objectives given to them. I disagree that we need to Nerf FG to make DS pilots feel safe and cozy and thus encourage their lazyness. Here's some numbers, everyone likes numbers, helps back up a point. Light clarity ward shield booster Heals 127hp per pulse Has 5 pulses Pulses have a 1 second interval. In other words it heals 635hp over 5 seconds, or about a quarter of the health of what a average shield dropship should have. Having timed it it takes about 2 seconds after being selected to activate. Now then, to the enemy. Lets go with an standard and an assault forge gun First the standard(adv variant to keep things fair) It does 1452 damage per shot Has a charge up time of 3.5 seconds Has a clip size of four Straightaway you'll see that 1 shot of a forge gun will take away over half the health of our bare average shield tank dropship, and had done just under 3 times the damage that a shield repper can repair. With its clip size and charge up time it can deal a total of 5808 damage in 14 seconds. In other words 2 shots will be enough to kill our average tanked dropship. Now for the assault forge gun (which starts at the advanced variant) It has a direct damage of 1524.6hp Has a charge up time of 2.5 seconds And has a clip size of four Notice how this thing has both a higher base damage and charge up time? Absolutely wonderful don't you think? In 5 seconds it has done 3049.2 damage In ten seconds it had done 6098.4 damage So the assault forge gun can in the same time span that the best light shield repper on the market can run do over 6 times the damage it can heal. Not to mention that by the time the module actually activates the second shot will be less than half a second away from hitting you. Now admittedly these numbers don't take resistance into account but I'm not 100% sure on how they work, so we'll do without. It also doesn't take into account forge gun skills or damage mods. Forge gun skills can reduce the charge up time by 25% and can increase the damage per shot by 15%. Things are massively in favor of the forge gunner. OP said that his DS has 4260 hp shield, not sure about how much extra armor that thing has, probably 800 at least or so. Looks like it will take assault FG about 10 seconds of continuous fire on the drop ship to bring it down. I am not gonna comment here whether assault FG is OP relative to the base version - this belongs in the FG thread. What you guys seem to agree is that AFG poses more threat to you than any other weapon. If we run you calculation and apply it to the ship OP has described, we will see about 10 sec of continued fire are required to bring the ship down. So that's 10 sec of perfectly aimed lead and placed shots in an FPS game on a very mobile target. I don't fly DS but in my mind this is not OP at all. I saw a bunch of ppl accusing me of not knowing what I am talking about because I don't fly DS. True, I don't fly DS. But I did used to play a little with FG in chromosome. What I was used to seeing is a DS circling around the map over my head OVER and OVER and OVER again after having already been hit by a couple of bolts from my FG without any attempt to run for cover and let shields rep up, so basically until eventually the DS shot down, which was inevitable because of the dumb tactics DS pilots typically use of flying in circles and hoping that the bad FGunner would not hit them again like he did last time the DS flew over. From where I sit it seems that what all of you guys want is a penalty free game style where you can continue thoughlessly flying in circles around the map without any countermeasure by the infantry. The fact is if we want to support our team, either by picking people up, or providing some CAS with our turrets, we have to lose our speed, when that happens your looking at about 3 seconds before your truly mobile again. And considering we won't be moving till the first shot either hits or fly by use, and by that point the second shot will have already started charging, the assault forge gunner has (barring afterburners being fitted, they change how vulnerable you are drastically but your still vulnerable for the two seconds it takes to activate) around 3 shot at you if he's using the assault variant. The other major problem is that people are using proto and advanced AV against standard vehicles, weapons like proto breach forge guns are OHK'ers no matter how much tank you put on, especially if they've got damage mods on. Don't get me wrong as fun as it would be to be an OP sky tank bringing death to the groundsloggers, I know that will just make things a 1000 times worse and would get boring quickly. We need proper counters to vehicles, but we're only holding half of what we should have, and that's making things lean massively in favor of AV. Something needs to happen with dropships, everyone agrees with that, we're not fulfilling our proper role and we are dieting way too quickly.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1851	Posted - 2013.05.26 23:27:00 - [15] - Quote Mondrath wrote: Any advice for a would-be pilot gentlemen? Get logi LAV's, those things are near immortal and help you earn ISK. Also max your corp skills, and never linger in one area too long. The above advice should be considered fair warning, if you still decide to continue on this fools path, my advice is useful.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 2612	Posted - 2013.07.12 00:45:00 - [16] - Quote Taurion Bruni wrote: Can i just fly an llav? Seems to survive more hits as a LIGHT class Back I'm chromosome if you filled a sagas low slots with nanofibre mods and a nitrous and hit a small bump you really would fly, I used to jump onto roofs with the things and confuse tanks by barrel rolling over them. sigh I miss my chassis mods.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 2612	Posted - 2013.07.12 01:21:00 - [17] - Quote They were also bastards to handle, I do kind of prefer the new injectors for the fact that they don't make the dropship try to backflip into the MCC.